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View Full Version : Anybody agree that MacDonald and Gonzales are killing the offense?



roby
05-19-2009, 11:22 PM
MacDonald and Gonzales are killing the offense. Their bats are totally dead. It would be far better to play Hairston and Janish at shortstop, Hernandez at first and Rosales at third. It was working, why did they change it?

Ghosts of 1990
05-20-2009, 12:11 AM
They both need to go. I think Gonzalez is in the lineup because Dusty likes veterans on his club.

Jack Burton
05-20-2009, 12:26 AM
Has there been a worse lineup this year than the one Dusty threw out there tonight against the world series MVP?

Red in Atl
05-20-2009, 12:34 AM
Thank god we traded Kepp to clear up space on this team...He's hitting .321 in 53 at bats...

CRedsLarkin11
05-20-2009, 12:58 AM
I don't know why McDonald made this team and I don't know why he's still here

corwinator3407
05-20-2009, 01:24 AM
How in the name of God do you led McDonald bat in the 9th? If you're gonna bring Nix in, then do it in his place and use Owings as the PH for the pitcher. I know they wanted someone to be on base when he hit but to continually give him the chances he doesn't deserve is absurd.

BluegrassRedleg
05-20-2009, 02:58 AM
Hate to pile on a guy when he's down, but I just don't see what McDonald brings to this club in any fashion. If you don't have a guy better than this somewhere in your system, you're really in a bad way.

DTCromer
05-20-2009, 04:04 AM
Is this thread serious?

McDonald gets his first start in 2 weeks and he's the reason our offense sucks?

What the hell?

Dude Rock
05-20-2009, 04:06 AM
I have to agree with the rest. Frankly, if I owned the club, Jeff Brantley would be the manager. He has his finger on the pulse of what should be happening at all times. I respect the heck out of him.

WillyT
05-20-2009, 05:57 AM
I don't think anybody thinks McDonald is the reason this offense sucks and he bears little blame for the offensive failures of this club this far in the season. I think the point is that he's taking a roster spot from somebody that could potentially make a positive impact on the club. I really don't see how Gomes would be worse than McDonald and he might add some pop. At the very least I'd rather see Nix or Dickerson in there against a LHP than McDonald. If Darnell is relagated to being a pinch hitter I really can't see how he would be a better option than Gomes. Maybe I'm missing something?

GIDP
05-20-2009, 08:19 AM
having them bat 7 and 8th then having the pitcher come up really doesnt do much to help you win thats for sure.

Then add Taveras at 1 thats 4 ABs that really dont scare anyone.

xavr1
05-20-2009, 09:52 AM
I've been pissed about McDonald on this roster all season. Hitting well below .200? What is he doing on the roster? No, he is not the reason for our poor hitting. But he doesnt help! Please bring up Gomes, like you should have after ST.

Bumstead
05-20-2009, 09:58 AM
I don't know, maybe it's the fact that the offense was weak to begin with and now we have injuries and...surprise, the offense is even worse. McDonald plays once every week or two, that's not the problem. I'm tired of hearing about how great Gomes is; he's not even good, but bring him up, we could certainly use another 6th OF on this team...Personally, I think Dickerson should be allowed to play until after 200-300 AB's he proves that he is worse than the other reserve OF's on this team. Dickerson is the only guy on the current team or at AAA that is capable of being an everyday LF (long-term) for this team; the rest of these guys, including Gomes are 5th OF's at best (most are really 6th OF, meaning they shouldn't be here at all); how many of those guys do we need? Hairston is a utility guy. What do you expect from this roster offensively? Dusty can't put a good lineup out there; it's not possible at this point.

Bum

xavr1
05-20-2009, 10:02 AM
Gomes is the only one who has ever been an everyday major league OF. McDonald didnt even make his first start until age 30. Gomes is a better hitter than McDonald.

BLEEDS
05-20-2009, 10:24 AM
I don't know why McDonald made this team and I don't know why he's still here

Random Spring Fluke; DUHsty the Toothpick and his pig-headedness.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

texasdave
05-20-2009, 10:26 AM
Everybody knows that Spring Training statistics don't mean anything, until the manager wants them to mean something.

cbowen2112
05-20-2009, 10:55 AM
We need to have the same lineup that swept the D-Backs!!!!!! Gonzales is a travesty and McDonald should not even be a pinch hitter. I have been saying this forever, actually since he was sent down. Bring up Gomes, he can hit, he might play defense like someone we once had, but even he is not that bad.

Dude Rock
05-20-2009, 11:00 AM
Yep. The lineup was doing fine and then BAM! Dusty had to change things.

TC81190
05-20-2009, 11:04 AM
McDonald shouldn't be here, and ideally neither should Gonzalez, but we don't have a SS, so I guess I can see the logic for him. Janish is overrated defensively and would be exposed offensively if he played everyday. Hairston I don't think would be a good day in day out fit there defensively. That would probably end up putting a dent in the effectiveness of the pitching staff.

cbowen2112
05-20-2009, 11:05 AM
Yep. The lineup was doing fine and then BAM! Dusty had to change things.

"Gotta get our starting SS back in there, he adds so much value to this team."

haha. What a joke! Maybe it will take 7-8 game slide for Dusty to wake up! Also, without Votto it seems like teams are not quite as frightened of the other guys in the lineup, so it just makes it worse.

roby
05-20-2009, 12:49 PM
Is this thread serious?

McDonald gets his first start in 2 weeks and he's the reason our offense sucks?

What the hell?

Yes, this thread is dead serious. When you have a borderline weak line-up in the first place (especially with Votto unable to go) and then you run McDonald and Gonzales out there over and over, back to back...it is pretty devastating to any chance your offense might have. Maybe you've been out of the country for a few weeks or in a coma or something, but the Reds were doing pretty well until these two guys were inserted in the line-up.

Hondo
05-20-2009, 01:12 PM
I think everyone agrees... There is no need for McDonald on the Roster... Must be a Dusty thing... Gonzalez has to be a bench player... I mean... Boston needs a SS bad right now... Most errors at Short... Trade him there for something...

Please Walt... Please!

Bumstead
05-20-2009, 01:31 PM
Spring Training statistics mean something when the players are equally bad or equally good...McDonald made the team because he can play CF...you are right that Gomes has played everyday in the past...everyday on a horrible team...so, since the Reds offense sucks, you think Gomes should get a shot over Dickerson? Gomes has already proven in MLB that he isn't very good. Willingham has to be available for very little...just do it!

Bum

Brutus
05-20-2009, 01:53 PM
Spring Training statistics mean something when the players are equally bad or equally good...McDonald made the team because he can play CF...you are right that Gomes has played everyday in the past...everyday on a horrible team...so, since the Reds offense sucks, you think Gomes should get a shot over Dickerson? Gomes has already proven in MLB that he isn't very good. Willingham has to be available for very little...just do it!

Bum

Gomes career Major League numbers:

1,264 AB / 297 H (.235 BA)
66 HR / 184 RBI (HR every 19 AB / RBI every 6.9 AB)
Career .329 / .454 / .783 OPS

Dickerson career Minor League numbers:

2,202 AB / 573 H (.260 BA)
58 HR / 276 RBI (HR every 38 AB / RBI every 8.0 AB)
Career .363 / .415 / .778 OPS

McDonald career Minor League numbers:

4,815 AB / 1,296 H (.269 BA)
86 HR / 557 RBI (HR every 56 AB / RBI every 8.6 AB)
Career .331 / .394 / .725 OPS


This season in the NL, average OPS is .749. Home Runs are being hit every 34 at-bats. RBI's are being driven in about every 7.6 AB. OBP is .329 and SLG .412.

Gomes meets or exceeds the averages for almost everything at the major league level according to his career numbers. By nature, this does not make him a "bad" player. And he did so at, statistically, a pitcher's park.

Dickerson and McDonald's career minor league numbers do not even define 'average' based on the National League. And that does not take into account the expected drop in stats from AAA to the Major Leagues, as evidenced by studies in MLE's.

I think it's clear who the best option of the three players is. I'm not advocating getting rid of Dickerson. I actually like Dickerson. He provides pretty good at-bats (he's second on the team in pitches per plate appearance) and has some pop and speed. But as far as McDonald / Gomes - there really is no statistical comparison.

texasdave
05-20-2009, 02:03 PM
Spring Training statistics mean something when the players are equally bad or equally good...McDonald made the team because he can play CF...you are right that Gomes has played everyday in the past...everyday on a horrible team...so, since the Reds offense sucks, you think Gomes should get a shot over Dickerson? Gomes has already proven in MLB that he isn't very good. Willingham has to be available for very little...just do it!

Bum

1)The Reds had Taveras (RH) and Dickerson (LH) to cover centerfield coming out of spring training. Hairston, in a pinch, can play centerfield. A backup centerfielder who can't hit his own weight wasn't a huge priority.

2)The Reds needed then and still do need a big RH bat in their lineup. This was/is a much bigger priority. You can argue whether Gomes truly is that big RH bat or not, but he is about the best the Reds have available at this point in time.

Bumstead
05-20-2009, 03:23 PM
1)The Reds had Taveras (RH) and Dickerson (LH) to cover centerfield coming out of spring training. Hairston, in a pinch, can play centerfield. A backup centerfielder who can't hit his own weight wasn't a huge priority.

2)The Reds needed then and still do need a big RH bat in their lineup. This was/is a much bigger priority. You can argue whether Gomes truly is that big RH bat or not, but he is about the best the Reds have available at this point in time.

Sir,

1) You are right, but has Dusty played Dickerson in CF once this year? Why not?

2) Gomes may or may not be the best option. I really don't care if they call him up or not, but he is not going to make this Reds team noticeably better. And, based on his history, he should only play against LHP. What's that? Once per week? Who cares...100 AB's for the year...the Reds need a solid eveyday player in LF. Dickerson is the only one with a chance to improve. Gomes is what he is; usable against LHP only. He can tear up AAA all he wants; his history in MLB is real and tells the true story.

Either trade for a stop-gap (until one of the Reds 'prospects' are ready) everyday LF or let Dickerson play until he proves he can't do it. Don't let a slow start dictate the rest of his season. That's what I'm saying. Comparing Gomes' unimpressive major league numbers to Dickerson's career minor league numbers means very little except it shows that Gomes is a bad MLB hitter. Dickerson made a lot of strides at AAA last year, let's give him a shot to show it wasn't a mirage; it may have been, but I would like to see the Reds find out.

Bum

Brutus
05-20-2009, 04:07 PM
Sir,

1) You are right, but has Dusty played Dickerson in CF once this year? Why not?

2) Gomes may or may not be the best option. I really don't care if they call him up or not, but he is not going to make this Reds team noticeably better. And, based on his history, he should only play against LHP. What's that? Once per week? Who cares...100 AB's for the year...the Reds need a solid eveyday player in LF. Dickerson is the only one with a chance to improve. Gomes is what he is; usable against LHP only. He can tear up AAA all he wants; his history in MLB is real and tells the true story.

Either trade for a stop-gap (until one of the Reds 'prospects' are ready) everyday LF or let Dickerson play until he proves he can't do it. Don't let a slow start dictate the rest of his season. That's what I'm saying. Comparing Gomes' unimpressive major league numbers to Dickerson's career minor league numbers means very little except it shows that Gomes is a bad MLB hitter. Dickerson made a lot of strides at AAA last year, let's give him a shot to show it wasn't a mirage; it may have been, but I would like to see the Reds find out.

Bum

His history of "bad" numbers is still at or above that of an average Major League hitter. If he, having average to slightly above average stats, is "bad," then what does that make a player who's stats in the minors are, at best, average?

Gomes, for his Major League career thus far, has an OPS+ of 105. This means his OPS, park-adjusted, is 5% better than just an 'average' hitter. And this was in the American League where pitchers do not bring those averages down.

Funny thing is, Gomes has a career slugging of .455. His slugging and OPS+ are both better than Brandon Phillips (though Phillips does play a position whose value is higher because he can hit).

So far, Jay Bruce has a career slugging of .470, an OPS of .782 and an OPS+ of 99. Though Jay Bruce has future All-Star written all over him, Gomes, in his three full seasons in the major leagues, is statistically comparable to Bruce.

Jayson Werth, a guy that finally got a shot last year, has a career slugging of .457. His career OPS is just 20 points higher than Gomes.

I could go on and on about this. Point I'm trying to make is that other than Joey Votto, Gomes has put up comparable numbers to anyone in the Reds' lineup. He is not "the" answer, but he is certainly "an" answer. At very least, he could be providing a huge upgrade against left-handed pitching. At worst, you have a statistically above-average hitter that can hit for power and drive in runs. This is a good thing.

Bumstead
05-20-2009, 04:27 PM
How much of those 'above average hitter stats' come from batting only against LHP's? I don't care if he is brought up to be the 25th man. To say he is better than an average MLB hitter and he carries a .235 average with major split variance when facing LHP vs. RHP is nuts. What about an average MLB STARTER in LF? He won't compare favorably and he is a bad hitter vs RHP which he will face 80% of the time.

Actually, I would prefer he was brought so that he can prove once again that he is a bad MLB LF and y'all can quit acting like he is going to make a noticeable difference. He's not. Dusty is choosing to play McDonald instead of Dickerson; just play Dickerson; he can't hurt this offense.

Bum

EDDIEGGG27
05-20-2009, 04:37 PM
Guess what? Good ole Darnell is starting again tonight! THis is getting beyond ridiculous

From Cincinnati.com

Taveras CF
Hairston 3B
Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Hernandez 1B
Gonzalez SS
McDonald LF
Hanigan C
Harang P

And for visiting Phils:
Rollins SS
Utley 2B
Ibanez LF
Howard 1B
Werth RF
Victorino CF
Feliz 3B
Coste C
Moyer P

DTCromer
05-20-2009, 04:39 PM
The Phillies have arguably the best 1-4 in baseball.

DTCromer
05-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Yes, this thread is dead serious. When you have a borderline weak line-up in the first place (especially with Votto unable to go) and then you run McDonald and Gonzales out there over and over, back to back...it is pretty devastating to any chance your offense might have. Maybe you've been out of the country for a few weeks or in a coma or something, but the Reds were doing pretty well until these two guys were inserted in the line-up.

I think this club has more attention needed than arguing over the 25th man on this roster. I think it's obvious that this club has gone to more contact hitters and better defense. Do we need power? Sure, but I think Dusty and Walt are very comfortable having DM still on the roster. My only problem is that Dickerson and McDonald are virtually the same player and 1 should be gone. Who should it be? I know know, possibly McDonald, but to blame our offense on Darnell for getting 10 AB's every 14 days is ludicrous.

GIDP
05-20-2009, 05:25 PM
Darnell McDonald and Dickerson are not even close to the same player.

Him getting 10 ABs in 14 days is 10 ABs worth of RBIs likely missed out on considering hes been used as that guy a few times this year.

roby
05-20-2009, 05:32 PM
I think this club has more attention needed than arguing over the 25th man on this roster. I think it's obvious that this club has gone to more contact hitters and better defense. Do we need power? Sure, but I think Dusty and Walt are very comfortable having DM still on the roster. My only problem is that Dickerson and McDonald are virtually the same player and 1 should be gone. Who should it be? I know know, possibly McDonald, but to blame our offense on Darnell for getting 10 AB's every 14 days is ludicrous.

No one has said that, DT. The problem is certainly not JUST McD. It is also Alex Gonzales. He hasn't hit well all season...and yet he is batting 6th tonight against the Phillies! I sure had a problem with sending Darnell up in the 9th inning trailing Philadelphia 4-3. Especially when you had Nix, Owings, and even Hanigan on the bench. Any of those guys would have been an improvement as a pinch hitter. I know it's not an ideal situation, and the Reds badly need another good hitter, plus the return of Votto and EE, but giving Gonzales and McDonald starts makes no sense to me.

Brutus
05-20-2009, 05:53 PM
How much of those 'above average hitter stats' come from batting only against LHP's? I don't care if he is brought up to be the 25th man. To say he is better than an average MLB hitter and he carries a .235 average with major split variance when facing LHP vs. RHP is nuts. What about an average MLB STARTER in LF? He won't compare favorably and he is a bad hitter vs RHP which he will face 80% of the time.

Actually, I would prefer he was brought so that he can prove once again that he is a bad MLB LF and y'all can quit acting like he is going to make a noticeable difference. He's not. Dusty is choosing to play McDonald instead of Dickerson; just play Dickerson; he can't hurt this offense.

Bum

Actually, a majority of his at-bats have come against right-handers. In fact, he's had twice as many plate appearances against right-handers as he has left-handers. I think you have this perception that he's been a platoon player all his life. That's really not true. When healthy, he was a fixture in Tampa's lineup for a couple of seasons. Take a look at these numbers... against right-handers, he's about average in most categories, though his OBP is well below average. Against lefties - the rates are pretty similar but as a whole, he's better than against right-handers.

Career splits

vs. RHP

981 PA (67% of career)
850 AB
.220 BA
40 2B (4.7%)
7 3B (0.8%)
41 HR (every 20.7 at-bats) / 123 RBI (every 6.9 at-bats)
95 BB (9.6%) / 286 SO (29.1%)
.309 / .428 / .737 OPS

vs. LHP

489 PA (33% of career)
414 AB
.266 BA
20 2B (4.8%)
3 3B (0.7%)
25 HR (every 16.6 at-bats) / 61 RBI (every 6.8 at-bats)
56 BB (11.5%) / 127 SO (25.9%)
.369 / .510 / .870 OPS

As you can see, his overall stats take into account many more at-bats versus right-handed pitchers than left. Against lefties though, he has a well-above average OBP, a terrific slugging and very good OPS. His walk rates are much higher, his strikeout percentage is lower and for good measure, his line drive percentage is nearly 5 points higher against lefties (which accounts for the higher batting average).

In any event, my last point I'd like to make on this: I'm not advocating Gomes play every day. My point is that if you play him against lefties, Laynce Nix against righties, collectively you've got potential production that exceeds 75% of the teams around the league. Gomes does not need to be counted on to come up and be an every day left fielder. His mere starts against left-handed pitching combined with Nix (or Dickerson) against right-handers will make the team quite a bit better.

Dickerson, then, can play center against tough right-handers or simply giving Willy Taveras a day off.

This is clearly not the only problem Cincinnati has right now. But it's the best and easiest solution to upgrade the roster.

Dude Rock
05-20-2009, 06:28 PM
Guess what? Good ole Darnell is starting again tonight! THis is getting beyond ridiculous

From Cincinnati.com

Taveras CF
Hairston 3B
Phillips 2B
Bruce RF
Hernandez 1B
Gonzalez SS
McDonald LF
Hanigan C
Harang P

And for visiting Phils:
Rollins SS
Utley 2B
Ibanez LF
Howard 1B
Werth RF
Victorino CF
Feliz 3B
Coste C
Moyer P

I remember people bringing up Ibanez name last year as a possible full time OFer. I guess the Reds had no interest in him.

He's possibly playing the best right now out of all the Phils.

DTCromer
05-20-2009, 07:21 PM
No one has said that, DT. The problem is certainly not JUST McD. It is also Alex Gonzales. He hasn't hit well all season...and yet he is batting 6th tonight against the Phillies! I sure had a problem with sending Darnell up in the 9th inning trailing Philadelphia 4-3. Especially when you had Nix, Owings, and even Hanigan on the bench. Any of those guys would have been an improvement as a pinch hitter. I know it's not an ideal situation, and the Reds badly need another good hitter, plus the return of Votto and EE, but giving Gonzales and McDonald starts makes no sense to me.

I'm going to agree with you on AGon. The guy is a hole in our lineup on a regular basis. And even when he's hitting, it's light. But it seems a waste of time arguing over the 25th man on this roster. As I said, it's clear this organization is going more toward speed and defense rather than the below average fielding and terrible strikeout ratio. That's a big part why we got rid of Dunn and Griffey. Walt knows what he wants.

With Votto out, this should be a lineup:

Taveras CF
Hairston SS
Phillips 2b
Bruce RF
Hernandez 1B
Hanigan C
Rosales 3B/Edwin
Dickerson LF

With Votto, this should be our lineup:

Taveras CF
Haiston SS
Votto 1B
Hernandez C
Bruce RF
Phillips 2b
Rosales 3b/Edwin
Dickerson LF

texasdave
05-20-2009, 07:59 PM
I'd bring up Gomes and set him on 1B until Votto gets back. It makes me uneasy playing both of our catchers on a regular basis. I understand playing first base is not nearly as taxing as catching, but it has to take something out of a player. Is that gonna show up during the dog days of August? Also both players playing regularly doubles the chance of injury, doesn't it? This is a roundabout way of saying jettison Darnell McDonald (who IMO can't carry Dickerson's jockstrap) down to Louisville and bring up Gomes or Bankston or somebody.

DTCromer
05-20-2009, 08:02 PM
I'd bring up Gomes and set him on 1B until Votto gets back. It makes me uneasy playing both of our catchers on a regular basis. I understand playing first base is not nearly as taxing as catching, but it has to take something out of a player. Is that gonna show up during the dog days of August? Also both players playing regularly doubles the chance of injury, doesn't it? This is a roundabout way of saying jettison Darnell McDonald (who IMO can't carry Dickerson's jockstrap) down to Louisville and bring up Gomes or Bankston or somebody.

I disagree. Ramon playing 1B and Hanigan playing Catcher is better than bringing ANYONE up from Louisville.

Bumstead
05-20-2009, 11:26 PM
how are those #'s against RHP average for a starter in LF? I have no problem with him as a 25th man or leaving him in AAA. This team will not be any better with or without him. If those are the numbers you think are going to help the Reds become a better offensive force then you and I are just going to have to disagree. I give up, there's no hope...:p:

We can win (be competitive) with this pitching and hopefully add a real LF closer to the deadline (or a SS).

Bum

Dude Rock
05-20-2009, 11:41 PM
I disagree. Ramon playing 1B and Hanigan playing Catcher is better than bringing ANYONE up from Louisville.

I second that. We need Ramon's bat in the lineup.

cbowen2112
05-21-2009, 10:05 AM
McDonald had another 0fer night at the dish against sorry pitching. He looked okay defensively, but how how much does that matter in LF? We need to make a move to have a decent platoon in LF and at least have a somewhat scary PH off of the bench. Leftys do not like pitching to Gomes he destroys them. That might make an oposing manager think about making another call to the bullpen etc. I do not see McDonald as a great clubhouse or even dugout presence, where as we all know what you are gonna get with Gomes. He was not speedy enough to make the Rays postseason roster last year, but he can hit. We are not the Rays. I am not saying we should save a spot for him in Cooperstown or even in the Reds HOF, but would it really hurt to try at this present juncture? What say ye?

Bumstead
05-21-2009, 10:17 AM
It wouldn't hurt and some of these people would find out that it's not going to help much either. Then again, McDonald wouldn't be much of a loss to the Reds team. Brutus the Pimp (AKA Gomes' little brother) would be happy as well...;)

Aren't there already 29 threads on this same topic? :rolleyes:

Bum

brachial pleXUs
05-21-2009, 10:22 AM
I went to the Bats opening day, and if I had been in left field istead of right, I would have yelled to Jonny "Don't worry, McDonald won't be up there for long! You'll be up soon enough!" Good thing I was in right. I'm not a Dusty-basher, but I struggle to understand his love for starting--not just having on the team--reasonably speedy outfielders who can't hit to save their lives. It's like he has to have one a year.

DTCromer
05-21-2009, 10:59 AM
I went to the Bats opening day, and if I had been in left field istead of right, I would have yelled to Jonny "Don't worry, McDonald won't be up there for long! You'll be up soon enough!" Good thing I was in right. I'm not a Dusty-basher, but I struggle to understand his love for starting--not just having on the team--reasonably speedy outfielders who can't hit to save their lives. It's like he has to have one a year.

He's started 7 games this year with the majority being because: A) Of Injuries or B) Because Dickerson reminds everyone of Timmy Lupus in LF.

bgwilly31
05-21-2009, 11:32 AM
Its absolutely pathetic to see dusty ont he sideline mentoring Mcdonald. After a pathetic strikeout or pop up against THE worst SPer i have seen this season.

As bad as this is, its hard not to think dusty might be catering to black players. What other Logical reason can you come up with continuing to start mcdonald.

NIXON----yeah hes struggled agiainst lefties. But on NIXONs worst day hes better than mcdonald.

Dickerson---TALENT LEVEL isnt even close. Dickerson wins in a landslide VS mcdonald.

Hairston----I would say the numbers speak for themselves.

So is it a coincidence that both of dusty projects Patterson and mcdonald have been black>?

I dont know. But i sure cant see his logic at all.

Bumstead
05-21-2009, 11:32 AM
So far we have avoided Neifi Perez and Ramon Martinez...Dusty always has his favorites (last year it was the great Paul Bako).

CySeymour
05-21-2009, 11:34 AM
My take is that this is totally on Jocketty. I believe if a GM gives the manager a player to misuse, the manager will do that. My understanding was that the reason he made the opening day roster, was because they needed a center fielder because Taveras wasn't available for opening day. Well, guess what, they have two other people who could play center, Dickerson and Harriston..

Dude Rock
05-21-2009, 01:25 PM
Its absolutely pathetic to see dusty ont he sideline mentoring Mcdonald. After a pathetic strikeout or pop up against THE worst SPer i have seen this season.

As bad as this is, its hard not to think dusty might be catering to black players. What other Logical reason can you come up with continuing to start mcdonald.

NIXON----yeah hes struggled agiainst lefties. But on NIXONs worst day hes better than mcdonald.

Dickerson---TALENT LEVEL isnt even close. Dickerson wins in a landslide VS mcdonald.

Hairston----I would say the numbers speak for themselves.

So is it a coincidence that both of dusty projects Patterson and mcdonald have been black>?

I dont know. But i sure cant see his logic at all.

1. Who's this Nixon guy? (Laynce Nix)

2. What does race have to do with it?

Reds09
05-21-2009, 01:33 PM
Looks like its going to be another long year of watching one of Dusty's favorite players get a chance to play. Patterson was horrible last year now its McDonald. I hope their is a move quick to get McDonald off of the field because he is no producing. I agree some of the blame should be on Jocketty. I don't understand why they can't just put McDonald down in AAA and if he gets hot down there maybe bring him back. Right now he is not doing anything for this team.

bgwilly31
05-21-2009, 02:47 PM
1. Who's this Nixon guy? (Laynce Nix)

2. What does race have to do with it?

I keep calling him nixon. :lol:

And i believe i just explained what race might have to do with it.

If not race what else was my point. Its all explained in the post. If you dont udnerstand it i dont know what to tell ya.

TheBigLebowski
05-21-2009, 04:20 PM
Some people just refuse to let this Watergate thing die.

Hondo
05-21-2009, 06:00 PM
How about they just stop playing Gonzalez and Demote McDonald to AAA.

Jack Burton
05-21-2009, 06:04 PM
Worst thing for this team to do at this point is to tread water. It would be best in the long run to tank, allowing us to can dusty and the staff.

BLEEDS
05-21-2009, 06:13 PM
How about they just stop playing Gonzalez and Demote McDonald to AAA.


Gonzalez's glove I can live with if he bats 8th.

Old McDonald should go right past Louisville and just head up the road to Dayton. The bats are already struggling as-is, why add to the losing?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
05-21-2009, 06:17 PM
I keep calling him nixon. :lol:

And i believe i just explained what race might have to do with it.

If not race what else was my point. Its all explained in the post. If you dont udnerstand it i dont know what to tell ya.

And Dickerson and Hairston are what - Canadian?!?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

bgwilly31
05-21-2009, 06:28 PM
And Dickerson and Hairston are what - Canadian?!?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Basically did you also not see what i posted. Everything is explained above even about these two players. So far i havent heard a logical response to the scenario.

reds1869
05-22-2009, 06:18 AM
Basically did you also not see what i posted. Everything is explained above even about these two players. So far i havent heard a logical response to the scenario.

No, you really didn't explain anything. If it is about race starting McDonald over Dickerson and Hairston makes absolutely no sense. In all honesty Dickerson has not played that well and Hairston is more valuable as a guy who can play all over the place to spell guys. Nix is our closest thing to a real answer in LF and to keep a career Minor Leaguer like Darnell on the 25 man makes absolutely no sense. But to imply that race has anything to do with it is crazy.

Is Dusty a racist? I don't know, I've never spent time with the man. But I do know he enjoys winning and has to have a reason--however misguided--for every decision he makes. A friend of mine made the race argument but there is nothing to back it up.

BLEEDS
05-22-2009, 10:38 AM
Basically did you also not see what i posted. Everything is explained above even about these two players. So far i havent heard a logical response to the scenario.


Yeah, you're saying McDonald is black; I'm saying well so is Dickerson and Hairston, so what's your point?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

CySeymour
05-22-2009, 10:48 AM
I really cannot believe how anyone could suspect race has anything in the world to do with this. Just really pathetic to even suggest it.

bgwilly31
05-22-2009, 11:47 AM
Yeah, you're saying McDonald is black; I'm saying well so is Dickerson and Hairston, so what's your point?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Okay forget dickerson. He shouldnt be playing either at this point. His numbers are terrible.


Hairston obviously should be playing. BTW hairston is half black. Half latino.


Point is. Nix should be playing or at least given a decent chance. When he was playing consistently WE WERE WINNING.

Dusty's project players Patterson and mickey D are both black and both TERRIBLE> but yet still play.

Im just waiting for the untalented white kid to come up from triple A stink it up and yet still play and be by dusty's side talking game plan in the dugout.

cbowen2112
05-22-2009, 12:00 PM
Okay forget dickerson. He shouldnt be playing either at this point. His numbers are terrible.


Hairston obviously should be playing. BTW hairston is half black. Half latino.


Point is. Nix should be playing or at least given a decent chance. When he was playing consistently WE WERE WINNING.

Dusty's project players Patterson and mickey D are both black and both TERRIBLE> but yet still play.

Im just waiting for the untalented white kid to come up from triple A stink it up and yet still play and be by dusty's side talking game plan in the dugout.

Well your point is not irrelevant. McDonald is gone, Gomes is up.

bgwilly31
05-22-2009, 04:26 PM
Which makes it even worse.

How does a guy go from starting to Off the team the next day.

cbowen2112
05-22-2009, 04:30 PM
Which makes it even worse.

How does a guy go from starting to Off the team the next day.

Yes but the argument of it being a thing of race is awful, and now irrelevant.

GIDP
05-22-2009, 04:38 PM
Race isnt irrelevant when it comes to Dusty.

Fon Duc Tow
05-23-2009, 10:40 AM
Racism is everywhere.

As more and more African Americans ascend to positions of power and influence, white people are just going to have to get used to the fact that many black people will show favoritism to other black people.

Just like what has been going on for decades (centuries?) with many white people.

But to act like it doesn't exist, or to say it is irrelevant, especially with Dusty Baker who already has a history there... keep your head in the sand if you like.

We all know why Nix isn't in LF and why McDickerson is/was/will be. Because "white people can't handle the heat," remember? -Dusty "The Greek" Baker :)

bgwilly31
05-23-2009, 10:43 AM
Race isnt irrelevant when it comes to Dusty.

Its definitely seems to be a possibility.

IMO right now

LF belongs to NIX and GOMES> Those two guys should platoon and dickerson should be a PH or off the bench type guy.

The performance numbers dont lie.

GOMES is batting .1000 for crying out loud. :p: