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View Full Version : Carlos Fisher, Jonny Gomes called up; McDonald DFA'd, Ramirez sent to Louisville



OnBaseMachine
05-22-2009, 11:38 AM
Today the Reds placed on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to 5/17, RHP Edinson Volquez; optioned to Louisville RHP Ramon Ramirez; designated for assignment OF Darnell McDonald; recalled RHP Carlos Fisher (#46) and RHP Homer Bailey (#34); selected from Louisville the contract of OF Jonny Gomes (#31).

Bailey made 8 starts at Class AAA Louisville and went 3-5, 4.57 (45.1ip, 46h, 17bb, 43k, 9hr)…he will start for the Reds tomorrow night vs the Indians.

Fisher made 13 apps for the Bats, all in relief, and went 2-0, 2.00 (18ip, 11h, 4bb, 21k, 0hr)…when he pitches will be making his Major League debut.

In 37g at Louisville OF Jonny Gomes hit .282 and leads the team in HR (9) and RBI (27)…a non-roster invitee to spring training camp, he was reassigned to Louisville the day before Opening Day.

http://ctrentrosecrans.com/

Will M
05-22-2009, 11:39 AM
:jump:

Falls City Beer
05-22-2009, 11:40 AM
The AAA guys with capes bearing S's have arrived. Let's hope they don't Larson/Rosales.

bucksfan2
05-22-2009, 11:41 AM
Did McDonald not have options? I just find it odd that they kept him on the MLB roster but don't want him in the minors.

edabbs44
05-22-2009, 11:42 AM
Makes a whole lot of sense but, as FCB has mentioned, we shouldn't expect the WS trophy b/c of these moves. But it should improve the team.

edabbs44
05-22-2009, 11:43 AM
Did McDonald not have options? I just find it odd that they kept him on the MLB roster but don't want him in the minors.

I actually thought the same thing. Makes no sense.

BCubb2003
05-22-2009, 11:43 AM
So the Reds have added some Bats to their lineup.

traderumor
05-22-2009, 11:44 AM
Did McDonald not have options? I just find it odd that they kept him on the MLB roster but don't want him in the minors.No, McDonald does not have options. They have to DFA him, then I believe have 10 days to trade him or he gets his unconditional release. IIRC, he is then a free agent and could sign with Louisville. Then, if they want to recall him, they would have to put him back on the roster and let someone else go. At least I think that is how it works.

pahster
05-22-2009, 11:46 AM
Re: Gomes vs MacDonald

It only took the Reds 40 games to make the correct decision between the two.

redsfan4445
05-22-2009, 11:48 AM
THANK GOD!!!!! WHEW!! I wasnt excited about the weekend watching McDonald batting against the leftys!! Now i am more optimistict!! I just WISH they did that after coming back from SD before the Philly series!! At least its a smart move and Fisher will help tooo

SMcGavin
05-22-2009, 11:48 AM
Good news!

OnBaseMachine
05-22-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm glad to see Fisher called up. I hope his stay in permanent. In 18 innings he has a 2.00 ERA and has allowed only 11 hits while posting a 4 BB/21 K ratio. He's got a chance to be a very good major league reliever.

Reds Fanatic
05-22-2009, 11:49 AM
Finally a step in the right direction. It should have have taken near this long to make the decision but at least they finally made the move.

RedsManRick
05-22-2009, 11:50 AM
I actually thought the same thing. Makes no sense.

To what end? He's clearly not going to help the major league team and the organization has lots of upper minor OF depth, especially the way Heisey has performed so far.

redsmetz
05-22-2009, 11:50 AM
No, McDonald does not have options. They have to DFA him, then I believe have 10 days to trade him or he gets his unconditional release. IIRC, he is then a free agent and could sign with Louisville. Then, if they want to recall him, they would have to put him back on the roster and let someone else go. At least I think that is how it works.

Yes, that would be correct. He's been removed from the 40 man roster and would have to be placed there again should he ever come back up.

SMcGavin
05-22-2009, 11:51 AM
To what end? He's clearly not going to help the major league team and the organization has lots of upper minor OF depth, especially the way Heisey has performed so far.

I was just wondering if Heisey would go to AAA to fill the outfielder slot that has now opened up.

HeatherC1212
05-22-2009, 11:51 AM
Awesome news and I'm SO glad I'm going to the game tomorrow night! I'm looking forward to seeing the team again especially if they also get Joey back this weekend. :jump:

Marty and Joe
05-22-2009, 11:53 AM
Excellent.

Reds get better (IMO) in the 2 spots that are the last 2 on the roster and I like seeing Homer getting the call if Edinson must go on the DL.

Gomes will help with some sock off the bench and should be in there regularly against good lefties.

Fisher - let's see whether his success translates and hope for some good results in his first trip to the majors.

traderumor
05-22-2009, 11:53 AM
Now we need a new prisoner caught up in the malaise of the Reds farm system that just can't get a break.

CarolinaRedleg
05-22-2009, 11:55 AM
I guess it's time to retire this Photoshop creation:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/tplester119/darnell.jpg

Falls City Beer
05-22-2009, 11:56 AM
Now we need a new prisoner caught up in the malaise of the Reds farm system that just can't get a break.

Heisey. Free Heisey. What's the over/under?

Nah. I take it back; it will be one of our Rob Dibble's: Manual maybe?

bucksfan2
05-22-2009, 11:58 AM
To what end? He's clearly not going to help the major league team and the organization has lots of upper minor OF depth, especially the way Heisey has performed so far.

The organization must have thought he provided something if they kept him on the 25 man roster for 1/4 of the season. Whether you agree with that is a different story. I would be shocked if McDonald was offered by Louisville and he declined. Why would a 30+ year old AAA journeyman turn down an organization who kept him in the bigs for 40 games?

Caseyfan21
05-22-2009, 11:58 AM
Finally a step in the right direction. It should have have taken near this long to make the decision but at least they finally made the move.

Exactly what I was going to say. :thumbup:

edabbs44
05-22-2009, 11:59 AM
To what end? He's clearly not going to help the major league team and the organization has lots of upper minor OF depth, especially the way Heisey has performed so far.

Meaning that, theoretically, you would figure that guys who are believed to be useful on the major league roster should have worth in the minors.

Theoretically.

JaxRed
05-22-2009, 12:03 PM
Meaning that, theoretically, you would figure that guys who are believed to be useful on the major league roster should have worth in the minors.

Theoretically.

He may still got to AAA, they just had to make room on 40 man roster

Tom Servo
05-22-2009, 12:16 PM
I go to New Jersey for a week and I didn't even know Ramirez was on the big league roster. I like these moves though.

cincy09
05-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Now if we could get EE back!

Any timetable on that ?

dfs
05-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Did McDonald not have options? I just find it odd that they kept him on the MLB roster but don't want him in the minors.

Not many 30 year olds have options.

traderumor
05-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Heisey. Free Heisey. What's the over/under?

Nah. I take it back; it will be one of our Rob Dibble's: Manual maybe?There is a reservation for one player, one starting pitcher, and one reliever. I was going to go with Free Drew, then figure we have the choice between Stubbs or Sutton. It is known as the Free Denorfia Chair. For starters, known as the Free Tom Shearn Chair, it is currently held by none other than Matt Maloney. The committee is taking nominations for the Free Chris Booker Chair, with several fine nominees: Josh Roenicke, Pedro Viola, and Robert Manuel.

CaiGuy
05-22-2009, 12:45 PM
When Masset comes back, they should just DFA Lincoln and keep Fisher up (assuming he doesn't implode).

Heck, they should just DFA him now.

Chip R
05-22-2009, 12:45 PM
I actually thought the same thing. Makes no sense.


He's like 30 years old. I'd have been surprised if he did have options.

lollipopcurve
05-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Needed to happen, in the worst way.

We know what Gomes is -- feast or famine. But he'll need ABs, and I'd start him against all lefties until he shows he shouldn't be in there.

Fisher -- I'd keep Ramirez as a long guy (though they probably are short of starters in Louisville), but of all the relievers in AAA this is a good call, in my opinion. One reminder -- young players just arriving in the major leagues still have a lot of learning to do (witness Bruce). So, I'm in favor of a) not assuming anyone's a savior and b) not assuming a new rookie is always going to be bad/mediocre if he doesn't do consistently well during his first callup. There's no question Fisher will stumble now and then.

Chip R
05-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Now comes the time where RedsZone waits to see if McDonald clears waivers. ;)

CaiGuy
05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Now comes the time where RedsZone waits to see if McDonald clears waivers. ;)

Oh, the suspense! :doh:

Roy Tucker
05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Now comes the time where RedsZone waits to see if McDonald clears waivers. ;)

Teams are lining up as we speak. Party in October to the winner.

Did Ramirez pitch while he was up?

CaiGuy
05-22-2009, 12:52 PM
Did Ramirez pitch while he was up?

He relieved Owings yesterday.

Chip R
05-22-2009, 12:54 PM
Teams are lining up as we speak. Party in October to the winner.



Now, the question is, if he's claimed, do we pull him back and work out a trade?

traderumor
05-22-2009, 12:58 PM
Now, the question is, if he's claimed, do we pull him back and work out a trade?Well, Dayton does need some help.

bucksfan2
05-22-2009, 01:07 PM
He's like 30 years old. I'd have been surprised if he did have options.

Don't some players agree to go down to AAA even though they don't have options? Corey Patterson did that last year. He volunteered do go down to AAA in order to work on his hitting. I also remember the Yankees trying to do this with Giambi but he refused to do so.

Will M
05-22-2009, 01:09 PM
Needed to happen, in the worst way.

We know what Gomes is -- feast or famine. But he'll need ABs, and I'd start him against all lefties until he shows he shouldn't be in there.

Fisher -- I'd keep Ramirez as a long guy (though they probably are short of starters in Louisville), but of all the relievers in AAA this is a good call, in my opinion. One reminder -- young players just arriving in the major leagues still have a lot of learning to do (witness Bruce). So, I'm in favor of a) not assuming anyone's a savior and b) not assuming a new rookie is always going to be bad/mediocre if he doesn't do consistently well during his first callup. There's no question Fisher will stumble now and then.

Since Gonzo can't hit his weight I'd go with Hairston at SS ( with Janish also getting some starts) & Gomes in LF vs RHP. Bring in Janish at SS & move Hairston to LF for late inning defense when we are winning.

Absolutely Fisher belongs in middle relief. The Reds have a lot of rookies on the roster & fans need to be patient. some are ready to permanently ban guys like Rosales or Herrara to the minors after a very brief time in the bigs.
guys like McDonald have no upside & when they fail we need to just move on. when guys with some upside struggle as rookies we need to be a bit more patient.

*BaseClogger*
05-22-2009, 01:15 PM
Since Gonzo can't hit his weight I'd go with Hairston at SS ( with Janish also getting some starts) & Gomes in LF vs RHP. Bring in Janish at SS & move Hairston to LF for late inning defense when we are winning.

I'm excited about the potential production from a Nix/Gomes platoon (pinch me). Now just get Janish some more starts at SS and I'm a happy man.


Absolutely Fisher belongs in middle relief.

Yep, give him a few low leverage innings and if he succeeds, well, he should probably be the 7th inning man at this point...

knuckler
05-22-2009, 01:16 PM
OK, I know I'm being nitpicky here, but why call up Homer today? Sure, have him travel to Cincinnati and be ready to be activated Saturday, but it would have been easy to bring up Wilkin Castillo or Josh Roenicke for a little extra depth Friday night. Probably a moot point if the starting pitcher goes deep and the game doesn't go to extras, but seems like just playing a little shorter than necessary.

BearcatShane
05-22-2009, 01:17 PM
A Johnny Gomes/Layne Nix platoon in left improves this team in the short term big time in my opinion.

Chip R
05-22-2009, 01:27 PM
Don't some players agree to go down to AAA even though they don't have options? Corey Patterson did that last year. He volunteered do go down to AAA in order to work on his hitting. I also remember the Yankees trying to do this with Giambi but he refused to do so.


Some do, yes. But you have to have so much service time in order to do that. And that is different than having options. The result is the same but the pricedure is different.

AmarilloRed
05-22-2009, 01:36 PM
OK, I know I'm being nitpicky here, but why call up Homer today? Sure, have him travel to Cincinnati and be ready to be activated Saturday, but it would have been easy to bring up Wilkin Castillo or Josh Roenicke for a little extra depth Friday night. Probably a moot point if the starting pitcher goes deep and the game doesn't go to extras, but seems like just playing a little shorter than necessary.

Volquez is on the DL. Homer will be making spot starts in his absence. I'm going to assume there was a reason the Reds didn't want Ramirez in the rotation while Volquez is on the DL. Ramon didn't do too bad last September. Ramon hasn't been too impressive in Louisville this year; I wouldn't be surprised it that was it.

Team Clark
05-22-2009, 01:37 PM
Seems to me the conversation went more like this:

(Jocketty) Hey Dust, you're doing alright but every time the ship gets going you screw with the sails. Since I am in charge and you're not, McDonald is gone. I am bringing some pitching north and you better not screw that up either. Got me, dude?"

(Dusty) Yeah man, it's cool. Can I call Mc D and give him Corey Patterson's number? I love those guys!

cumberlandreds
05-22-2009, 01:40 PM
The burning question now,since McDonald is gone,who will Redszone's new whipping boy? :D

Team Clark
05-22-2009, 01:41 PM
The burning question now,since McDonald is gone,who will Redszone's new whipping boy? :D

EEE will be back soon to make everything right. :D Not too long of a lull. In the interim it looks like it will be Rosales who gets whipped daily.

REDREAD
05-22-2009, 01:45 PM
Now we need a new prisoner caught up in the malaise of the Reds farm system that just can't get a break.

:lol: That's right.. where's the latest guy that has been oppressed by the Reds?

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I don't really see the criticism of "why did this take so long?" To be honest, I don't see this making that much of an impact. Obviously, Gomes won't have to do much to be better than McDonald, so that exchange is probably a win. I guess I'm saying that it's not as if Jay Bruce was kept in the minors to give Corey Patterson a roster spot (Gomes vs McDonald).

It will be interesting to see how Fisher pitches though.

CarolinaRedleg
05-22-2009, 01:51 PM
The burning question now,since McDonald is gone,who will Redszone's new whipping boy? :D

Gonzo comes to mind immediately.

REDREAD
05-22-2009, 01:52 PM
Fisher -- I'd keep Ramirez as a long guy (though they probably are short of starters in Louisville), but of all the relievers in AAA this is a good call, in my opinion. One reminder -- young players just arriving in the major leagues still have a lot of learning to do (witness Bruce). So, I'm in favor of a) not assuming anyone's a savior and b) not assuming a new rookie is always going to be bad/mediocre if he doesn't do consistently well during his first callup. There's no question Fisher will stumble now and then.


The new wave of baseball thinking is that with a 11 or 12 man pitching staff, you don't really need a long man. Not saying it's right, but it makes sense.

In any event, I think the Reds need to call up whatever reliever in AAA that they think is the best, regardless of the role he can do. Whether that's Rameriez or Fisher, I don't know. Actually, I am not opposed to giving several of these bubble AAA relievers a shot to see if any of them are worth keeping.

In response to someone else, it's not a good idea to DFA Lincoln. After a horrible April, he actually had a decent May.. Yeah, he gave up two HR this month and was not used much, but his numbers were better, although it was only 6.2 IP so far.

redsmetz
05-22-2009, 01:53 PM
Volquez is on the DL. Homer will be making spot starts in his absence. I'm going to assume there was a reason the Reds didn't want Ramirez in the rotation while Volquez is on the DL. Ramon didn't do too bad last September. Ramon hasn't been too impressive in Louisville this year; I wouldn't be surprised it that was it.

I thought about this earlier and I think the plan was for Ramirez to be available for long relief and if not used to have him do the spot start once they saw that Volquez would be DL'd. Since Ramirez pitched yesterday in long relief, that required Bailey for the spot start and sending RR down and bringing up Fisher gives them a fresh arm for using in relief.

LincolnparkRed
05-22-2009, 01:55 PM
122-0 here we come. So we wind up at 143-19 then?

Eric_the_Red
05-22-2009, 02:17 PM
:lol: That's right.. where's the latest guy that has been oppressed by the Reds?



"Help, help! I'm being repressed!"

http://coloradoright.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/holygrail007.jpg

LvJ
05-22-2009, 02:44 PM
Yaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

LvJ
05-22-2009, 02:45 PM
122-0 here we come. So we wind up at 143-19 then? Eh, not too shabby. I guess I'll take it! :D

Big Klu
05-22-2009, 02:49 PM
"Help, help! I'm being repressed!"

http://coloradoright.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/holygrail007.jpg

Come and see the violence inherent in the system!

Jpup
05-22-2009, 02:53 PM
So, Bailey can be sent up and down as many times as needed for the rest of the season? He just has to go on the 25 man next spring?

I would have like for Maloney to get a shot at starting, but maybe Homer is ready this time.

red-in-la
05-22-2009, 03:06 PM
Reds recall Homer and Gomer......

Mario-Rijo
05-22-2009, 03:13 PM
Nice, hopefully they will get to play tonight I'll be in attendance down just beyond the 3rd base dugout, field level. I'll be the guy wearing the plain Red T-Shirt and Reds Spring Training hat, you can't miss me just look for the biggest guy you can find that fits that description. :D

nate
05-22-2009, 03:24 PM
Nice, hopefully they will get to play tonight I'll be in attendance down just beyond the 3rd base dugout, field level. I'll be the guy wearing the plain Red T-Shirt and Reds Spring Training hat, you can't miss me just look for the biggest guy you can find that fits that description. :D

Make sure you paint "REDSZONE" on your chest!

Eric_the_Red
05-22-2009, 03:26 PM
I'll be there too....in the LF bleachers all the way to the left, wearing a home Reds jersey with my wife & 4 month old (his 1st game!). Would love to see Gomes start hot.

redsmetz
05-22-2009, 03:28 PM
Make sure you paint "REDSZONE" on your chest!

What's the secret handshake? And password?

westofyou
05-22-2009, 03:30 PM
Johnny Gomes is the poor mans Adam Dunn.. well not really. He's more Kingman than Dunn.. he's right in between them but way less power.


CAREER
MODERN (1900-)
AVERAGE <= .250
AVERAGE vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria

SECONDARY AVERAGE SEC AVG AVG SLG OBA AB
Adam Dunn .493 .247 -.023 .086 .041 3871
Jonny Gomes .363 .235 -.036 .026 -.008 1264
Dave Kingman .346 .236 -.028 .087 -.029 6677

Mario-Rijo
05-22-2009, 03:31 PM
Make sure you paint "REDSZONE" on your chest!

I thought about it! Wish I had a sticker or better yet a T-Shirt with redszone on it. Maybe a big white Z in the middle just to set it apart.

TheNext44
05-22-2009, 03:40 PM
Johnny Gomes is the poor mans Adam Dunn.. well not really. He's more Kingman than Dunn.. he's right in between them but way less power.


CAREER
MODERN (1900-)
AVERAGE <= .250
AVERAGE vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria

SECONDARY AVERAGE SEC AVG AVG SLG OBA AB
Adam Dunn .493 .247 -.023 .086 .041 3871
Jonny Gomes .363 .235 -.036 .026 -.008 1264
Dave Kingman .346 .236 -.028 .087 -.029 6677

Right now, I wouldn't mind a young Kingman as the RH side of LF for the Reds.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-22-2009, 04:07 PM
Glad to see the organization is only about 2-3 weeks behind what even the casual Reds fan thought was necessary.

Hilarious.

Jpup
05-22-2009, 04:16 PM
Glad to see the organization is only about 2-3 weeks behind what even the casual Reds fan thought was necessary.

Hilarious.

Those were my thoughts.

Will M
05-22-2009, 04:22 PM
Johnny Gomes is the poor mans Adam Dunn.. well not really. He's more Kingman than Dunn.. he's right in between them but way less power.


CAREER
MODERN (1900-)
AVERAGE <= .250
AVERAGE vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria

SECONDARY AVERAGE SEC AVG AVG SLG OBA AB
Adam Dunn .493 .247 -.023 .086 .041 3871
Jonny Gomes .363 .235 -.036 .026 -.008 1264
Dave Kingman .346 .236 -.028 .087 -.029 6677


Gomes has a career OPS+ of 124 vs LHP. IMO a strict platton of Gomes & Nix will provide nice offense from left field. Gomes should never see a RH pitcher & Nix should never see a LHP. Ever.

HokieRed
05-22-2009, 04:35 PM
Have we got any news on Masset's status? If Homer and Fisher both pitch well, when Masset and EV return, we could see a significant reconfiguration of the pitching staff. We might see a rotation of Harang, Cueto, EV, Arroyo, and Bailey, with a pen of Owings, Cordero, Weathers, Rhodes, Masset, Fisher, and one of Herrera, Lincoln, or Burton. As the lefty, Herrera might have the best chance to stick for a while, though I think we should all be hoping Burton is back to the 2008 version and nails down the spot. If Bailey can really hold on to a rotation spot, and we have three reasonably decent possibilities for the new number 5--Owings, Masset, Maloney--then it seems to me very likely we'll see them try to move Arroyo unless we are really in the thick of things. But this to me means they're not going to be that likely to move Maloney because he gives them some of the possible depth they'll need to make a more significant move later [read: free themselves from BA's contract.] Lots of ifs; will be interesting to watch staff developments.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 04:56 PM
So...how many days until people are complaining that we need to get rid of Gomes? What's the over/under? :D

durl
05-22-2009, 05:04 PM
So...how many days until people are complaining that we need to get rid of Gomes? What's the over/under? :D

Put me down for 13 games. :D

I hope he does well.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 05:07 PM
Johnny Gomes is the poor mans Adam Dunn.. well not really. He's more Kingman than Dunn.. he's right in between them but way less power.


CAREER
MODERN (1900-)
AVERAGE <= .250
AVERAGE vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria

SECONDARY AVERAGE SEC AVG AVG SLG OBA AB
Adam Dunn .493 .247 -.023 .086 .041 3871
Jonny Gomes .363 .235 -.036 .026 -.008 1264
Dave Kingman .346 .236 -.028 .087 -.029 6677

Okay, that's one I've never seen before. What's Secondary Average?

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 05:09 PM
Gomes has a career OPS+ of 124 vs LHP. IMO a strict platton of Gomes & Nix will provide nice offense from left field. Gomes should never see a RH pitcher & Nix should never see a LHP. Ever.

So we should have a garage sale and put a sticker on Chris Dickerson's forehead then? I think people are writing Chris off WAAAAAY too early.

*BaseClogger*
05-22-2009, 05:12 PM
So we should have a garage sale and put a sticker on Chris Dickerson's forehead then? I think people are writing Chris off WAAAAAY too early.

Nope. But Nix has just as much potential IMO. Chris should play some games in CF...

LvJ
05-22-2009, 05:14 PM
How can we acquire Matt Joyce?

He's wasting away in the minors. He would look really nice in LF.

*BaseClogger*
05-22-2009, 05:15 PM
How can we acquire Matt Joyce?

He's wasting away in the minors. He would look really nice in LF.

How is he any different than Laynce Nix?

LvJ
05-22-2009, 05:22 PM
How is he any different than Laynce Nix? Joyce is 24, had an OPS+ of 116 last year. Just sayin'... I like him. I like Nix, too.

I do not like Wily. :D

*BaseClogger*
05-22-2009, 05:24 PM
Joyce is 24, had an OPS+ of 116 last year. Just sayin'... I like him. I like Nix, too.

I do not like Wily. :D

I like Joyce too. But the projection systems prefer Nix. And Joyce won't be free. I'll keep Nix, thanks...

Falls City Beer
05-22-2009, 05:27 PM
An outfield of Gomes in LF, Dickerson in CF, and Bruce in RF would be pretty awful defensively. FWIW.

*BaseClogger*
05-22-2009, 05:30 PM
An outfield of Gomes in LF, Dickerson in CF, and Bruce in RF would be pretty awful defensively. FWIW.

Of course Gomes and Dickerson would never be in the outfield together...

westofyou
05-22-2009, 05:32 PM
Okay, that's one I've never seen before. What's Secondary Average?




Secondary average. The stat measures those offensive components that are not measured in batting average. The formula is (TB-H+BB+SB)/AB

The measure of everything a batter does outside of batting average. Prior to the 50's it was the the domain of smaller walk driven skill players, since then it's the domain of the power players and if you put a limit on the BA (say every guy under .250) you get the outliers, the guys who drive fans crazy.

Falls City Beer
05-22-2009, 05:43 PM
Of course Gomes and Dickerson would never be in the outfield together...

Probably not, but it wouldn't be impossible.

mth123
05-22-2009, 05:57 PM
This is the right move IMO, but these guys aren't saviors.

Fisher is worth a look and I like him a lot, but there is no guarantee he'll be able to translate his minor league success to MLB. One knock on Gomes in TB was that he needed to play a lot to be any good, so even though his splits say he's good against LHP, he may need to be in there against righties too to have his stroke down. If the plan is to platoon him with Nix/Dickerson he may not be as successful as we suspect. He's definitely a better bet than McDonald though.

And Gomes, Dickerson, Bruce would be as good a defensive OF as Gomes, Taveras, Bruce IMO. Willy's defense isn't awful, but he's not great either. I equate his CF defense with that of Ryan Freel or Jerry Hairston.

OnBaseMachine
05-22-2009, 06:06 PM
Gomes: "I started to get locked in towards the end. In the beginning, it was real cold out and I could run every excuse out there but it's my responsibility to be professional and get off to a quick start, which didn't happen. I mentally checked into Louisville, and got my swing going."

Fisher: "I had just sat down at a theatre to watch "The Terminator" movie. The preview had just gotten done and I had a missed call. I had a funny feeling so I went outside. It was Rick Sweet. So I didn't watch the movie."

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/

TheNext44
05-22-2009, 06:16 PM
Nope. But Nix has just as much potential IMO. Chris should play some games in CF...

It won't happen, but I would love to see a platoon in CF of Dickerson/Taveras. When Taveras was signed, that's what I thought would happen. Taveras's splits don't justify a platoon, but I think Dickerson should be getting more PA's.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 06:19 PM
Finally a step in the right direction. It should have have taken near this long to make the decision but at least they finally made the move.

Agree 100% :thumbup:

Will M
05-22-2009, 06:58 PM
So we should have a garage sale and put a sticker on Chris Dickerson's forehead then? I think people are writing Chris off WAAAAAY too early.

Honestly I would like to see Dickerson in CF vs RHP. A platton of Nix/Gomes in LF & Dickerson/Taveras in CF works for me unless/until someone shows they deserve more playing time.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:30 PM
Nope. But Nix has just as much potential IMO. Chris should play some games in CF...

Dickerson in CF? Okay, that I'll go along with. I thought they were talking about sending Chris down or something.

LvJ
05-22-2009, 09:44 PM
Gomes: "I started to get locked in towards the end. In the beginning, it was real cold out and I could run every excuse out there but it's my responsibility to be professional and get off to a quick start, which didn't happen. I mentally checked into Louisville, and got my swing going."

Fisher: "I had just sat down at a theatre to watch "The Terminator" movie. The preview had just gotten done and I had a missed call. I had a funny feeling so I went outside. It was Rick Sweet. So I didn't watch the movie."

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/ Haha.

Kc61
05-22-2009, 10:02 PM
Dickerson in CF? Okay, that I'll go along with. I thought they were talking about sending Chris down or something.

Just about every rating I've seen says that Taveras has been tremendous defensively this year. There is no way I would take him out of centerfield unless his offensive numbers drop sharply. Nor should he be platooned. The Reds are obviously not that comfortable with Dickerson starting in CF.

FWIW, if Nix should slump offensively - hope not - Dickerson will get another shot in LF. I think Dickerson looks more comfortable offensively. In any event, Dickerson is a good bench player and I'm confident he will stay with the Reds all year and get some playing time.

traderumor
05-22-2009, 10:15 PM
Well, Gomes just clinched his folk hero status tonight. Very Jim Combsesque.

TRF
05-22-2009, 10:23 PM
Just about every rating I've seen says that Taveras has been tremendous defensively this year. There is no way I would take him out of centerfield unless his offensive numbers drop sharply.

You mean like they are doing? plummeting like a stone.

Kc61
05-22-2009, 10:27 PM
You mean like they are doing? plummeting like a stone.

WT is still hitting .280 with an OBP over .340. Not the greatest but not grounds for dismissal. Guy is playing excellent centerfield.

TRF
05-22-2009, 10:55 PM
WT is still hitting .280 with an OBP over .340. Not the greatest but not grounds for dismissal. Guy is playing excellent centerfield.

over the last 10 games, his OBP has dropped 40 points, his BA 35 points.

he's plummeting towards career norms. yippee.

traderumor
05-22-2009, 11:11 PM
over the last 10 games, his OBP has dropped 40 points, his BA 35 points.

he's plummeting towards career norms. yippee.I think that is why they are called norms.

WVPacman
05-22-2009, 11:24 PM
Yes! Yes! Yes! I just found out the news that McDonald was DFA with Gomes coming up.

I just walked threw the door and seen the Reds highlights and seen Gomes get a double.I was hoping and praying that he took McDonald's spot and it looks like I got my wish.I wonder what Dusty had to say about the move??

TheNext44
05-22-2009, 11:53 PM
over the last 10 games, his OBP has dropped 40 points, his BA 35 points.

he's plummeting towards career norms. yippee.

What worries me is not his numbers, but the way he is acquiring those numbers.

He is swinging at more pitches outside the zone, taking less pitches, walking less, making less contact and hitting more flyballs. I think he thinks he's a .300 hitter and needs to prove it. He has to change that attitude to stop his decline, asap. Or maybe this is the real Taveras and the one that was OPSing .800+ was an anomaly?

VR
05-23-2009, 12:03 AM
What worries me is not his numbers, but the way he is acquiring those numbers.

He is swinging at more pitches outside the zone, taking less pitches, walking less, making less contact and hitting more flyballs. I think he thinks he's a .300 hitter and needs to prove it. He has to change that attitude to stop his decline, asap. Or maybe this is the real Taveras and the one that was OPSing .800+ was an anomaly?

Great points....

Degenerate39
05-23-2009, 12:16 AM
I think Gomes already has more hits than McDonald

Razor Shines
05-23-2009, 03:05 AM
I think Gomes already has more hits than McDonald

They're tied in extra base hits.

_Sir_Charles_
05-23-2009, 01:10 PM
Just about every rating I've seen says that Taveras has been tremendous defensively this year. There is no way I would take him out of centerfield unless his offensive numbers drop sharply. Nor should he be platooned. The Reds are obviously not that comfortable with Dickerson starting in CF.

FWIW, if Nix should slump offensively - hope not - Dickerson will get another shot in LF. I think Dickerson looks more comfortable offensively. In any event, Dickerson is a good bench player and I'm confident he will stay with the Reds all year and get some playing time.

I wasn't talking about Dickerson replacing Taveras. I agree that Willy has been VERY good so far. I was thinking more along the lines of spot starts in center. If we look at Gomes/Nix as one player, then Bruce & Taveras...then Chris is the 4th outfielder. Anybody slumps...plug in Dickerson. He's also a much more potent bat off the bench than we usually have.

OnBaseMachine
05-24-2009, 04:57 PM
How about Carlos Fisher? He threw a very impressive 11th inning and then picked up a win in his major league debut. His stuff is very impressive. His fastball was 92/93 with sinking action and he flashed a plus breaking ball. Very impressive. There is no way the Reds can send him down when Masset returns.

Will M
05-24-2009, 05:18 PM
How about Carlos Fisher? He threw a very impressive 11th inning and then picked up a win in his major league debut. His stuff is very impressive. His fastball was 92/93 with sinking action and he flashed a plus breaking ball. Very impressive. There is no way the Reds can send him down when Masset returns.

he looked composed. most rookies have trouble throwing strikes in their big league debuts.

i agree that his pitches seemed to have some nice movement.

redsmetz
05-24-2009, 05:37 PM
How about Carlos Fisher? He threw a very impressive 11th inning and then picked up a win in his major league debut. His stuff is very impressive. His fastball was 92/93 with sinking action and he flashed a plus breaking ball. Very impressive. There is no way the Reds can send him down when Masset returns.

It happens all the time. One outing is just that and if Massett's ready, Fisher will be going down unless someone else goes on the DL (which isn't out of the realm of possibility). Fisher will have his day when he's up for good, but it may not be now.

nate
05-24-2009, 05:38 PM
Fisher's breaking ball was quite something.

fearofpopvol1
05-24-2009, 05:42 PM
It happens all the time. One outing is just that and if Massett's ready, Fisher will be going down unless someone else goes on the DL (which isn't out of the realm of possibility). Fisher will have his day when he's up for good, but it may not be now.

I agree with this.

If it were me, I'd DFA Lincoln...but I'd say there's no realistic chance that Walt will opt for that.

OnBaseMachine
05-24-2009, 05:53 PM
It happens all the time. One outing is just that and if Massett's ready, Fisher will be going down unless someone else goes on the DL (which isn't out of the realm of possibility). Fisher will have his day when he's up for good, but it may not be now.

Either DFA Lincoln or send Burton to AAA. Fisher has great stuff and could be an asset in the bullpen.

Rojo
05-24-2009, 06:00 PM
Why all the sarcasm about jetisoning the dross and checking out the kids? Rojo no get.

fearofpopvol1
05-24-2009, 06:02 PM
Either DFA Lincoln or send Burton to AAA. Fisher has great stuff and could be an asset in the bullpen.

I think over the last couple seasons (where Burton pitched very very well), he's earned a longer leash to try to work things out at The Show. However, if he's still struggling like this in a few weeks, I totally get sending him down. I think he's been better as of late.

Falls City Beer
05-24-2009, 06:41 PM
Why all the sarcasm about jetisoning the dross and checking out the kids? Rojo no get.

The "brighter days" supplied by this organization's farm system are, well...you've watched the last decade. Just call it healthy skepticism over silver bullet solutions coming from minors.

I'm as happy as the next guy to see McDonald get the boot, fwiw. But it's not as though he was holding back some beast down on the farm.

OnBaseMachine
05-24-2009, 06:46 PM
The "brighter days" supplied by this organization's farm system are, well...you've watched the last decade. Just call it healthy skepticism over silver bullet solutions coming from minors.

Jim Bowden's inability to develop young players shouldn't affect your judgment on the Reds current player development system. Johnny Cueto, Jay Bruce, and Joey Votto are proof that the Reds are moving in the right direction in that area.

BCubb2003
05-24-2009, 06:46 PM
It was great to see Carlos Fisher come in and make a big contribution. I just wonder if he was helped by the never-seen-the-guy-before syndrome that often plagues Reds hitters.

mth123
05-24-2009, 08:28 PM
It happens all the time. One outing is just that and if Massett's ready, Fisher will be going down unless someone else goes on the DL (which isn't out of the realm of possibility). Fisher will have his day when he's up for good, but it may not be now.

I can't see the Reds DFAing Lincoln at this point. He's signed for next year too. Sending Burton down to get him in a groove might not be a bad idea, but you could be right about Fisher being gone on Tuesday. I think the Reds will send a position player out when Masset comes back (Phillips DL or Castillo back down). The pitcher that goes, goes when Volquez returns.

Rojo
05-25-2009, 03:03 PM
The "brighter days" supplied by this organization's farm system are, well...you've watched the last decade. Just call it healthy skepticism over silver bullet solutions coming from minors.

Silver bullets or straw men? I don't see much evidence that anyone thinks there's a single farm hand that would turn the team around. But there just wasn't much of an argument to be made over bringing McDonald north instead of Gomes.

The problem with this system is the lack of blue-chip up-the-middle players. Otherwise, it's been pretty good. And there's a wealth of potential role-players -- Rosales and Fisher being just two.

Falls City Beer
05-25-2009, 03:29 PM
Silver bullets or straw men? I don't see much evidence that anyone thinks there's a single farm hand that would turn the team around. But there just wasn't much of an argument to be made over bringing McDonald north instead of Gomes.

The problem with this system is the lack of blue-chip up-the-middle players. Otherwise, it's been pretty good. And there's a wealth of potential role-players -- Rosales and Fisher being just two.

You're probably right. But when the whipping boy's not McDonald it will be someone else. It's just a constant game of whack a mole--especially when the target's usually the wrong one (i.e. Owings).

mth123
05-25-2009, 03:52 PM
On the position player side, which really started this debate, the Reds have graduated Bruce, Votto, Janish, Dickerson, Rosales and Hanigan the last two years, That is pretty good production getting nearly 50% of the positional player roster from the system within the last two seasons (two of whom are solid regulars and potential all star caliber guys). There is a bit of a lull right now until Stubbs, Alonso and Frazier etc. may be ready. It was not something that is really unexpected. Hernandez aside, the offseason was not spent addressing the holes that the system can't deal with.

SMcGavin
05-25-2009, 03:54 PM
Silver bullets or straw men? I don't see much evidence that anyone thinks there's a single farm hand that would turn the team around. But there just wasn't much of an argument to be made over bringing McDonald north instead of Gomes.

The problem with this system is the lack of blue-chip up-the-middle players. Otherwise, it's been pretty good. And there's a wealth of potential role-players -- Rosales and Fisher being just two.

This post is spot on in a lot of ways. I tire of the idea that those who think Minor League X is better than Current Red Y are suggesting that the minor leaguer is some sort of cure-all.

I think your evalution of the Reds minor league system is accurate as well - it is definitely low on impact guys after last year's group got called up, but there are plenty of guys who should be able to help in the majors. Those types won't win you a pennant on their own but they can supply decent production on the cheap, and they don't cost anything to acquire.

We are already seeing some benefits. Dickerson, Rosales, Hanigan, and Herrera are all unheralded products of the Reds farm, and each is capably filling a role for the major league club - and doing it for the major league minimum.

TheNext44
05-25-2009, 04:04 PM
This post is spot on in a lot of ways. I tire of the idea that those who think Minor League X is better than Current Red Y are suggesting that the minor leaguer is some sort of cure-all.

I think your evalution of the Reds minor league system is accurate as well - it is definitely low on impact guys after last year's group got called up, but there are plenty of guys who should be able to help in the majors. Those types won't win you a pennant on their own but they can supply decent production on the cheap, and they don't cost anything to acquire.

We are already seeing some benefits. Dickerson, Rosales, Hanigan, and Herrera are all unheralded products of the Reds farm, and each is capably filling a role for the major league club - and doing it for the major league minimum.

This is essential for a mid market team to compete. Ask the Cards, the Rays, the A's and the Twins.

This is something that the Reds did not understand until a few years ago. A deep farm system is more important than one that provides studs every now and then. If you consistently fill you roster with solid league average players, for near the league minimum, then you can go get the studs you need.

It's spending $4-6M a year on average ballplayers that killed the Reds, the Pirates, the Royals, and many others.

Falls City Beer
05-25-2009, 04:37 PM
This post is spot on in a lot of ways. I tire of the idea that those who think Minor League X is better than Current Red Y are suggesting that the minor leaguer is some sort of cure-all.

I think your evalution of the Reds minor league system is accurate as well - it is definitely low on impact guys after last year's group got called up, but there are plenty of guys who should be able to help in the majors. Those types won't win you a pennant on their own but they can supply decent production on the cheap, and they don't cost anything to acquire.

We are already seeing some benefits. Dickerson, Rosales, Hanigan, and Herrera are all unheralded products of the Reds farm, and each is capably filling a role for the major league club - and doing it for the major league minimum.

Hey, pennants for everyone. Maybe they'll produce a winner; Walt seems to think they will. And I get really tired of listening to folks rail on the 25th man and give a bunch of other guys free passes is all. If the Reds' farm can produce guys to take the place of Arroyo and Owings, great; but let's not act for even a second like McDonald was producing some serious drag on the club when he was getting such a negligible number of ABs. I say with all the handwringers, "Great, McDonald's gone," but really, he represents about .001% of the problem holding the team back. It's just more attention to the wrong detail.

RED VAN HOT
05-25-2009, 04:47 PM
This is essential for a mid market team to compete. Ask the Cards, the Rays, the A's and the Twins.

This is something that the Reds did not understand until a few years ago. A deep farm system is more important than one that provides studs every now and then. If you consistently fill you roster with solid league average players, for near the league minimum, then you can go get the studs you need.

It's spending $4-6M a year on average ballplayers that killed the Reds, the Pirates, the Royals, and many others.

I agree completely. Years ago, following the Reds minor leagues meant checking the box scores for the progress of 3 or 4 players and hoping they could be rushed to the major leagues. It was wishing for miracles. In some cases, the hope was that the player would perform better in the majors than he did in the minors.

Now, with the possible exception of Dayton (soon to be fixed), there are 3-4 potential ML players at every level. To some extent, it is a numbers game. You can never be sure about who will be a good ML player. Having more candidates, however, increases your odds. IMO the Reds system will support competitive teams built around pitching and defense at small market prices for years to come. I see no need to resort to free agency or trades for expensive veteran players in decline.

Team Clark
05-25-2009, 11:17 PM
Jim Bowden's inability to develop young players shouldn't affect your judgment on the Reds current player development system. Johnny Cueto, Jay Bruce, and Joey Votto are proof that the Reds are moving in the right direction in that area.

Just being devil's advocate here: What development did Bruce, Votto and Cueto actually get besides playing time? What great coaching did they receive to get them where they are today? These guys were "can't miss" out of the gate, right? Where are the mid level prospects who have come to life with the Reds revamped Minor League system?

OnBaseMachine
05-25-2009, 11:58 PM
Just being devil's advocate here: What development did Bruce, Votto and Cueto actually get besides playing time? What great coaching did they receive to get them where they are today? These guys were "can't miss" out of the gate, right? Where are the mid level prospects who have come to life with the Reds revamped Minor League system?

Bruce was a can't miss prospect but Cueto or Votto weren't. Bruce was rated as the #1 prospect in baseball but Votto was never rated higher than 43 by Baseball America and the highest Cueto was ranked was 34. As for the mid level prospects, give it time. Adam Rosales fits that description. As does Carlos Fisher and maybe a Chris Dickerson or Ryan Hanigan.

SMcGavin
05-26-2009, 08:36 AM
Just being devil's advocate here: What development did Bruce, Votto and Cueto actually get besides playing time? What great coaching did they receive to get them where they are today? These guys were "can't miss" out of the gate, right? Where are the mid level prospects who have come to life with the Reds revamped Minor League system?

Four guys that were produced by the farm in the past year, midlevel prospects turned MLB contributors: Hanigan, Dickerson, Rosales, Herrera.

redsmetz
05-26-2009, 08:41 AM
Four guys that were produced by the farm in the past year, midlevel prospects turned MLB contributors: Hanigan, Dickerson, Rosales, Herrera.

Herrara came over in the Hamilton trade. He finished his development in our system, but he started with the Rangers.

bucksfan2
05-26-2009, 08:56 AM
Bruce was a can't miss prospect but Cueto or Votto weren't. Bruce was rated as the #1 prospect in baseball but Votto was never rated higher than 43 by Baseball America and the highest Cueto was ranked was 34. As for the mid level prospects, give it time. Adam Rosales fits that description. As does Carlos Fisher and maybe a Chris Dickerson or Ryan Hanigan.

Cueto was pure luck. Signed for $5,000 and developing into a star is a success story. Votto on the other hand was good scouting but I always thought he was under valued by most prospect evaluators. IMO he was never able to recover prospect wise from his one poor year in the Obie take the first strike philosophy.

IMO one problem with the new farm system is that they haven't been able to develop those lesser prospects into solid MLB starters. Dickerson and Hanigan are nice but it is still up in the air as to whether they will become a MLB type starter. Successful organizations not only turn out top tier prospects but they roll out MLB starters consistently. The Reds haven't done that yet.

Falls City Beer
05-26-2009, 09:11 AM
Even in the Bowden years, the Reds' farm turned out some offense. What separates garden-variety farms from elite farms is pitching. Not ace after ace of course, but guys who can contribute and a coaching staff capable of being ruthless enough to see the high-end reliever inside the mediocre starter, and re-mold accordingly. A good farm is built on honesty as much as pie-in-the-sky, keep-at-em mentality.

traderumor
05-26-2009, 09:12 AM
Just being devil's advocate here: What development did Bruce, Votto and Cueto actually get besides playing time? What great coaching did they receive to get them where they are today? These guys were "can't miss" out of the gate, right? Where are the mid level prospects who have come to life with the Reds revamped Minor League system?Of course, you first have to get guys with major league talent in the system, so without good drafts and prospect grading, the development cannot flourish no matter how great the coaching is. It is easy enough to argue that a "mid-level" prospect that becomes a major leaguer (and sticks for longer than "getting his chance") does so because he was a misevaluated major league talent, or a late developing major league talent.

I also think you have to take a look at the "can't miss" prospects to judge the developmental aspect of a minor league system in how they play the game. How do Jay Bruce and Joey Votto run the bases? Do they regularly make the right plays in the field? Do pitchers know how to field their position? Can guys get a bunt down when needed?

Nevertheless, I think three guys on the roster are a testimony to something going right in the minor league system: Hanigan, Janish, and Dickerson. Producing these type of guys will help a mid-budget team like the Reds start to be able to save up their money and pay a star or two and is critical to getting over the mediocrity resulting from paying relatively expensive (and not as good) roster filler veterans like they have in the past.

traderumor
05-26-2009, 09:17 AM
Cueto was pure luck. Signed for $5,000 and developing into a star is a success story. Votto on the other hand was good scouting but I always thought he was under valued by most prospect evaluators. IMO he was never able to recover prospect wise from his one poor year in the Obie take the first strike philosophy.

IMO one problem with the new farm system is that they haven't been able to develop those lesser prospects into solid MLB starters. Dickerson and Hanigan are nice but it is still up in the air as to whether they will become a MLB type starter. Successful organizations not only turn out top tier prospects but they roll out MLB starters consistently. The Reds haven't done that yet.

I'd argue that is a draft, scouting, and prospect grading problem moreso than a developmental issue. Major league starters are found moreso than developed. And even then, are they good major league starters?

SMcGavin
05-26-2009, 09:44 AM
Ramon Hernandez could also be thought of as a product of the Reds farm, since it was the trade of two midlevel guys in Turner and Waring that brought him here.

Team Clark
05-26-2009, 01:08 PM
Of course, you first have to get guys with major league talent in the system, so without good drafts and prospect grading, the development cannot flourish no matter how great the coaching is. It is easy enough to argue that a "mid-level" prospect that becomes a major leaguer (and sticks for longer than "getting his chance") does so because he was a misevaluated major league talent, or a late developing major league talent.

I also think you have to take a look at the "can't miss" prospects to judge the developmental aspect of a minor league system in how they play the game. How do Jay Bruce and Joey Votto run the bases? Do they regularly make the right plays in the field? Do pitchers know how to field their position? Can guys get a bunt down when needed?

Nevertheless, I think three guys on the roster are a testimony to something going right in the minor league system: Hanigan, Janish, and Dickerson. Producing these type of guys will help a mid-budget team like the Reds start to be able to save up their money and pay a star or two and is critical to getting over the mediocrity resulting from paying relatively expensive (and not as good) roster filler veterans like they have in the past.

I agree. I was playing Devil's advocate and was interested to see what others thought of players like Janish, Hanigan, Rosales and even a guy like Fisher. I wouldn't give the Reds much credit for Herrera but he has performed above my expectations. The farm system has done a better job than the Bowden era in my opinion. They have taken baby steps to add better coaches. They still have a long way to go in that area. Every former Red who is down on his luck or recently divorced shouldn't automatically get a job because he charmed Uncle Bob.

Dickerson still has to find his way but I believe he can contribute. I really want to see Roenicke pitch this year.

I noticed in this thread and a few other threads that I have read in the past year or so, there was mention of having 3-4 Major League prospects at each level. That would be remarkable although not impossible. I imagine the term "prospect" has a lot of room for interpretation. My interpretation would be that you could go on the field and point to 3-4 guys and say "This guy, without a doubt will be in the big leagues". There are maybe 10 organizations that have 2 Major League prospects at each level. Teams are just not loaded with Tim Lincecum's and Justin Verlander's or Evan Longoria type players. Just my opinion. I have been wrong before.

What teams are loaded with are good players who have next level potential. As they rise, and sometimes fall, the next level gets tougher. We've all seen that and now know with SABR what kind of predictions can be made.

A vast majority of your High A through Rookie ball teams are predominantly roster fillers. Not that there are guys on the roster who will play their way to the top and surprise everyone. That can, and will, most certainly happen. The last 1/4 of the draft is about filling space. Not that they just take anybody. These players do have good skill sets, good arms, etc. There are many players who are drafted and seen as organizational type players who are never expected to play beyond AA or AAA.

Rojo
05-26-2009, 02:30 PM
Nevertheless, I think three guys on the roster are a testimony to something going right in the minor league system: Hanigan, Janish, and Dickerson. Producing these type of guys will help a mid-budget team like the Reds start to be able to save up their money and pay a star or two and is critical to getting over the mediocrity resulting from paying relatively expensive (and not as good) roster filler veterans like they have in the past.

Which is why Weathers and Lincoln made no sense to me. There were a bunch of farm candidates for their roles. Use the money elsewhere.

Cedric
05-26-2009, 02:49 PM
Which is why Weathers and Lincoln made no sense to me. There were a bunch of farm candidates for their roles. Use the money elsewhere.

Meh, not Weathers for me. I'm not usually someone that goes the subjective route, but it's pretty obvious that Stormy and Rhodes have great attitudes and that experience helps others progress. I'd say he's not making near enough money to really influence how the roster is shaped as of now.

Rojo
05-26-2009, 04:14 PM
Meh, not Weathers for me. I'm not usually someone that goes the subjective route, but it's pretty obvious that Stormy and Rhodes have great attitudes and that experience helps others progress. I'd say he's not making near enough money to really influence how the roster is shaped as of now.


Weathers has worked out, maybe Lincoln will. But the point is that if you can backfill the bench, bullpen, etc...with kids, save that money for one big need.