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Red in Chicago
05-22-2009, 05:30 PM
Cin
Taveras CF
Hairston 3B
Bruce RF
Phillips 2B
Nix LF
Hernandez C
Rosales 1B
Gonzalez SS
Arroyo P

Clev
A.Cabrera SS
Sizemore CF
V.Martinez C
Choo RF
Peralta SS
DeRosa 3B
Garko 1B
B.Francisco RF
Anth. Reyes P

Matt700wlw
05-22-2009, 07:12 PM
Sizemore ding dongs Arroyo. 1-0 Injuns

nate
05-22-2009, 07:19 PM
Chat is open.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:21 PM
Tavares w/ A BB then JHJ takes one in the back for the team...1st and 2nd no out!

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:23 PM
Wow, Reyes is all over the place here. 3-0 to Bruce. I mean, wild like as in the catcher is flailing at each pitch hoping to snag it.

PATIENCE GUYS!

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:24 PM
Jay walks on 4 pitches. Bases loaded, no out, for BP. All 3 have reached by BB or HBP.

MrCinatit
05-22-2009, 07:24 PM
Reyes looks like an absolute train wreck out there. It amazes me how some of these guys can remain in the bigs.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:24 PM
Reyes, 10 pitches: 1 strike, 9 balls.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:25 PM
BP up, 1-0 low. Shocker ;)

wow....2nd pitch is about 3 ft. outside and about 57', wow.

3rd pitch was in almost the same spot. Something has got to be wrong w/ this guy.


3-0 to BP...

wow, at strike down the middle, 3-1.

BP lines one to LF, it's a sac fly, F-7. 1 out, for Nix.

CrackerJack
05-22-2009, 07:26 PM
Something's wrong with him - may have to take him out...

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:28 PM
Nix, first pitch swinging, and a F-7 for Nix :sigh:

RFS62
05-22-2009, 07:28 PM
unbelievable

RFS62
05-22-2009, 07:30 PM
man, did we let him off the hook
I can't believe Nix swinging at the first pitch

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:30 PM
1-0 to Ramon "Latin Lover" Hernandez.

then 2-0, then 3-0.

Yup, he walked him on 4 pitches and Nix swings at the first pitch :argh:!


bases loaded, 2 down for Rosales.

CrackerJack
05-22-2009, 07:30 PM
You can't swing at the 1st pitch with this guy - cmon Nixie, he's got nuthin

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:31 PM
1-0 nowhere near for Rosales.

Clipped the bot. of the strike zone, 1-1.

And Rosales fouls out, F-3.

Just gross people.

CrackerJack
05-22-2009, 07:32 PM
Rosales - ugh, not doing much at the plate lately at all

Red in Chicago
05-22-2009, 07:32 PM
Getting only one run there will come back to bite us...sigh

Falls City Beer
05-22-2009, 07:32 PM
Nix has a kind of Russ Branyan baseball IQ.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:33 PM
Reyes throws 23 pitches that inning, and only 6 of them strikes and we only get 1 run. That's just inexcusable. Totally inexcusable.

RFS62
05-22-2009, 07:34 PM
Nix has a kind of Russ Branyan baseball IQ.

If I had a little leaguer do that I'd take his lunch money and make him cry

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:35 PM
And Arroyo trying to match Reyes pitch for pitch w/ a 4 pitch BB.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:36 PM
Alrighty, they turn the 23rd DP of the season, 6-4-3. Nice.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:37 PM
And that's that....easy grounder that JHJ ranges from 3rd to get in the hole, and we're thru 1 1/2, 1-1.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:38 PM
At least Reyes doesn't get much rest....

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:40 PM
0-2 to AGon and on the 2nd one, AGon lunges for one a foot outside and 6" low. sigh

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:40 PM
And he lunges again. God he's frustrating to watch at the plate.

CrackerJack
05-22-2009, 07:41 PM
wow did Agon get little lucky there with a swipe at an obvious ball - geesh

nate
05-22-2009, 07:41 PM
Gonzo with a little Texas Leaguer.

Red in Chicago
05-22-2009, 07:41 PM
0-2 to AGon and on the 2nd one, AGon lunges for one a foot outside and 6" low. sigh

he lunged again and got a hit :)

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:41 PM
My God, 3 in a row and none of them even CLOSE to strikes...


But he got lucky and bloops it over the 2B head for a single.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:41 PM
BA w/ his 8th sac. bunt. well done BA!

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:42 PM
he lunged again and got a hit :)

Result doesn't justify the act imo.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:43 PM
Chris Welsh, "Reyes isn't throwing hard enough to justify swinging at those marginal pitches".

Agree 100%.

Red in Chicago
05-22-2009, 07:44 PM
Result doesn't justify the act imo.

tell that to vlad whose never seen a pitch he didn't like ;)

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:44 PM
And Willy T hits it about 100ft up and 100ft out, P-5. 2down for JHJ.

CrackerJack
05-22-2009, 07:45 PM
tell that to vlad whose never seen a pitch he didn't like ;)

If Alex G had Vlad's #'s he could swing at anything he wants in the 8th spot.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:45 PM
This is really embarrassing that this team isn't making Reyes work any more than he is. The dude can't throw more than 1 or 2 strikes in any AB. And he's nowhere CLOSE to the strike zone when he misses.

Incredible that they are letting him off the hook.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:45 PM
4 pitch BB to JHJ and not a single pitch WASN'T IN THE THE LEFT HAND BATTERS BOX!

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:46 PM
And Bruce swings over the first pitch. I'm speechless.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:46 PM
And the exact same pitch w/ the exact same result. Neither close to the strike zone. Wow.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:47 PM
Are you kidding me?!? 3 pitches all WAY WAY low, all 3 breaking balls and he swung over all three. For the love of God, how/why?!?

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:48 PM
Thru 2, the Reds have stranded 5, 1-1.

flyer85
05-22-2009, 07:48 PM
jay swings at 3 pitches a foot out of the strike zone ... a good hitting team would have scored at least 5 to this point and Reyes would be gone.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:52 PM
This team is just, well, not worthy of us watching them, tonight at least, yet here we are. It's a sickness.


That said, Francisco w/ a lead off double down the 3B line. And this just in, not only can Reyes not throw strikes, he can't get a sac bunt down either.

With 2 strikes, he does get the bunt down, Rosales fields it and throws to 3rd and gets the lead runner. Woot!

And Reyes has to run the bases so no rest for him.

HokieRed
05-22-2009, 07:53 PM
This is where Yonder Alonso will make a difference.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:54 PM
Another 6-3 DP. And that's that. For the love of all that is good and Holy, can we please not swing at pitches 1'+ out of the strike zone this inning?!?

Thru 2.5, still, somehow, 1-1.

alloverjr
05-22-2009, 07:55 PM
Never in my life have I seen a team with such a low collective IQ in the box. If you're Jacoby do you selectively beat each offender with a bat until they understand or go on the DL? It's like watching high school ball.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:56 PM
First pitch almost hits BP in the shoulder.

Then a 72 mph BP fastball finds the strike zone...


And for the upteethn time, he throws a curve low and BP fishes for it and pops out to CF. I'm beyond words at this point.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 07:58 PM
And 2-0 to Nix...

Seriously, just don't swing at this point guys.


Nix takes the next one a mile high and 2 ft short of the wall. 2 outs.

flyer85
05-22-2009, 07:59 PM
reyes fastball is 81-85 with no command

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 08:00 PM
LOL

And now Ramon goes 3-0 w/ 3 pitches not even NEAR the plate, much less strike zone. Make that 4 straight.

Why do you even swing at this point. He's offering unlimited BB's...just TAKE THEM!!!

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 08:01 PM
1st pitch to Rosales nearly hits him in the head.

Next pitch hits the dirt in the LH batter's box.


Will someone else chime in here so that those not watching the game knows that I'm not just bitter and blowing things out of proportion?

And another ball, 3-0.

4th pitch lands in the dirt, in the LH batters box, yet again.

1st and 2nd, 2 out.

nate
05-22-2009, 08:02 PM
1st pitch to Rosales nearly hits him in the head.

Next pitch hits the dirt in the LH batter's box.


Will someone else chime in here so that those not watching the game knows that I'm not just bitter and blowing things out of proportion?

And another ball, 3-0.

Heh.

Reyes with 6 walks in the 3rd. Has thrown more balls than strikes.

BCubb2003
05-22-2009, 08:03 PM
What kind of conversation do you suppose goes on in the dugout? Does anyone say, "Dude what were you thinking? He can't throw a strike." Or do they just sit back down on the bench mumbling to themselves?

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 08:03 PM
The only pitch he can throw that's even close to a strike is the curve. 0-1 to AGon.

2nd pitch is about 3' outside. 1-1.

next pitch is in the dirt, 2-1.

Yup, curve, 2-2. His curve is at 72 mph. Just sit on it.

CrackerJack
05-22-2009, 08:05 PM
Gonzalez should be benched for that. Ugh EE and Votto can't get back soon enough.

nate
05-22-2009, 08:05 PM
Now that performance by Gonzo was amongst the most pathetic ABs I've seen.

Gallen5862
05-22-2009, 08:05 PM
How bad is Reyes throwing? How is Arroyo looking?

Blitz Dorsey
05-22-2009, 08:05 PM
I cannot wait until Alex Gonzalez and the giant hole in his swing is no longer a Cincinnati Red.

SirFelixCat
05-22-2009, 08:05 PM
LOL @ AGon. Jesus Christ almighty.

AGon swings at a pitch 3 feet, yes, that's right, 3 feet, in the LH batters box and taps it back to the pitcher.

I'm done. Someone else can take over. This is not worth the investment of my time.

flyer85
05-22-2009, 08:06 PM
I guess it must be that Reyes is so bad they can't hit him ... then again a lot of pitches they have swung at have been way out of the zone

alloverjr
05-22-2009, 08:06 PM
Gonzalez should be benched for that. Ugh EE and Votto can't get back soon enough.

Agreed. I'd throw Janish in there immediately. Embarrass the guy.

flyer85
05-22-2009, 08:06 PM
Now that performance by Gonzo was amongst the most pathetic ABs I've seen.the Bruce AB from the 2nd easily was worse

HokieRed
05-22-2009, 08:07 PM
When EE does return, somebody is going to have to make a serious decision about Gonzalez.

nate
05-22-2009, 08:09 PM
the Bruce AB from the 2nd easily was worse

Yeah but Gonzo's approach seems more influenced by Ricky Ponting than Charlie Lau.

nate
05-22-2009, 08:10 PM
Wow, Choo was fooled badly on that 1-1 pitch.

Blitz Dorsey
05-22-2009, 08:11 PM
I'm not so happy we've had the honor of seeing two of the worst free agent signings in Reds history in recent years with Milton and Gonzalez.

(Wait, did I say "two of the worst"??? I meant the two worst, period.)

flyer85
05-22-2009, 08:12 PM
Yeah but Gonzo's approach seems more influenced by Ricky Ponting than Charlie Lau.at least gonzo took two curve ball strikes before swinging at a ball. Bruce swung at 3 pitches, all balls and none were above his ankles.

alloverjr
05-22-2009, 08:14 PM
at least gonzo took two curve ball strikes before swinging at a ball. Bruce swung at 3 pitches, all balls and none were above his ankles.

Let's not just pick on these 2 guys, the only ones that have shown a clue at the plate are Hairston and Hernandez. Everyone else is just plain brutal.

The Baumer
05-22-2009, 08:22 PM
Bruce is 22.

Gonzo is terrible.

flyer85
05-22-2009, 08:26 PM
Gonzo is terrible.which he has always been at the plate ... the book has always been get ahead and he will chase

LvJ
05-22-2009, 08:26 PM
http://web4.twitpic.com/img/9628787-678cc727c6eeabe25510aa1e4d34539f.4a17429f-scaled.jpg

nate
05-22-2009, 08:43 PM
This is one of the most boring games I've watched.

Kc61
05-22-2009, 08:52 PM
Interesting thread. I agree that the Reds need to move on from Gonzalez. They need to get another starting shortstop.

But it's interesting how everyone is picking on Gonzo tonight when he is the only guy on the team with a base hit of any kind.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 08:54 PM
Make that the only TWO base hits for the team. Ground rule double with Adam on first. 2nd & 3rd with 1 down.

mth123
05-22-2009, 08:55 PM
I'd hit Votto here.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 08:55 PM
Dang it. Squeeze play...but it rolls foul. Nice timing, crummy luck.

nate
05-22-2009, 08:57 PM
Gonzo heard you guys!

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:00 PM
Wow. 9 men left on base with only 2 hits. Pretty poor excecution. Bronson poped out and Taveras strikes out to end the inning.

flyer85
05-22-2009, 09:01 PM
Gonzo heard you guys!
ball should have been an easy out ... Choo has an awful time tracking flyballs, here circled and stumbled before catching the one Nix hit in the 3rd

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:01 PM
Arroyo pops out and Willy Ks. 2nd and 3rd, 1 out and the starter had already gone 6. I think it may be the only chance to add runs all game. Should have PH there.

AmarilloRed
05-22-2009, 09:02 PM
Dusty doesn't seem like he want to PH for the pitcher. A number of times he's left the pitcher in to hit when the best thing would be to get a pinch-hitter.

GADawg
05-22-2009, 09:03 PM
i seem to be watching two teams that aren't going anywhere anytime soon....sadly

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:04 PM
Arroyo pops out and Willy Ks. 2nd and 3rd, 1 out and the starter had already gone 6. I think it may be the only chance to add runs all game. Should have PH there.

I kinda agree that we should've PH there. But I don't agree that it may be the only chance to add runs. Don't the Indians have a ton of blown saves?

~edit~ Just checked. 9, 4th worst in the bigs. I think we'll have several more chances to add on.

BCubb2003
05-22-2009, 09:04 PM
Wow. 9 men left on base with only 2 hits.

That's on base percentage for you.

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:04 PM
Dusty doesn't seem like he want to PH for the pitcher. A number of times he's left the pitcher in to hit when the best thing would be to get a pinch-hitter.

Its nuts. Arroyo with one out had a poor chance of getting the run home. Willy was on deck and him with two outs had an even worse chance than Arroyo did with one out. They needed a hitter in the 9 hole there. It was probably the game situation in this game.

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:06 PM
Not to mention that leaving Arroyo in after 6 good innings was playing with fire.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:07 PM
Back to back singles go for naught with the DP. Nice Houdinin job by Bronson there.

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:14 PM
I kinda agree that we should've PH there. But I don't agree that it may be the only chance to add runs. Don't the Indians have a ton of blown saves?

~edit~ Just checked. 9, 4th worst in the bigs. I think we'll have several more chances to add on.

This line-up has already shown that it can't score on a pitcher with a glass elbow that had nothing. I doubt we'll see another baserunner in this one.

Team Clark
05-22-2009, 09:15 PM
No adjustments, no adjustments, no adjustments....Phillips can't make a living hitting all breaking balls. Soon as he sees a FB, huge loop and a groundout to 3B or SS. Anyone who throws him a breaking ball should be fined.

Team Clark
05-22-2009, 09:16 PM
Wow...first pitch swinging to lead off an inning in a 1-1 game with a guy who gets tired easy after the 6th.... Man oh man...

RFS62
05-22-2009, 09:17 PM
The only way a team can win being aggressive is to know how to lay off when a pitcher can't find the plate with a compass.

I can't ever remember seeing worse plate discipline than tonight. And with the Reds of the past 10 years, that's really saying something.

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:17 PM
Good play by Hairston there.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:19 PM
Another solid 1-2-3 inning from Bronson.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:21 PM
The only way a team can win being aggressive is to know how to lay off when a pitcher can't find the plate with a compass.

I can't ever remember seeing worse plate discipline than tonight. And with the Reds of the past 10 years, that's really saying something.

Hmmm....and yet we've drawn 7 walks.

Gomes PH'ing

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:21 PM
JOhnny Gomes against the lefty.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:21 PM
1st pitch swinging. What horrible plate discipline (just kidding guys, just kidding). Double down the line. :O)

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:23 PM
Dickerson pinch running.

alloverjr
05-22-2009, 09:23 PM
No reason to bunt here with Hernandez. Let him hit the ball to the right side.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:24 PM
Hernandez lines out to short. Why did they take off the bunt? Odd to show it early and then call it off.

RFS62
05-22-2009, 09:24 PM
Hmmm....and yet we've drawn 7 walks.

Gomes PH'ing

DRAWN 7 walks?

We had 7 walks gift wrapped, and pissed away how many, in crucial situations.

CrackerJack
05-22-2009, 09:24 PM
Would you not want to save Dickerson's bat in a tie game in the 8th? (considering the super weak bench) Is Gomes that slow? Oh well.

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:25 PM
Rosales!!!!!!

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:25 PM
Rosales with a double to score Chris. Nope, we won't see anymore hits. :O) 2-1 Redlegs.

nate
05-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Nice double by Gomes followed by a nice double by Rosales to score the run!

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:26 PM
DRAWN 7 walks?

We had 7 walks gift wrapped, and pissed away how many, in crucial situations.

Okay, semantics. We still have 7 walks, however we got them. But I'm not arguing that we didn't get any clutch hits...until now of course.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:27 PM
2 hurt pitchers in ONE game? Yikes. Not good for the Tribe.

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:28 PM
Would you not want to save Dickerson's bat in a tie game in the 8th? (considering the super weak bench) Is Gomes that slow? Oh well.

LAffey is the only lefty they have. They want Dickerson's glove in there at the top of the inning. Chances are when the spot comes back around it will be a RH on the mound. If they were going to put him in anyway, may as well let him run. Gomes is real slow.

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:31 PM
Okay, semantics. We still have 7 walks, however we got them. But I'm not arguing that we didn't get any clutch hits...until now of course.

Its not just a simple failure to get clutch hits, That really understates things. The Indians starter was doing his best to allow each hitter to reach base by simply being a litle selective up there. Instead they flailed at crap no where near the zone and got themsleves out.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:32 PM
Gonzales with another single. Knocks in Rosie! 3-1 Reds!

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:32 PM
Babe Gonzalez with three hits.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:33 PM
Its not just a simple failure to get clutch hits, That really understates things. The Indians starter was doing his best to allow each hitter to reach base by simply being a litle selective up there. Instead they flailed at crap no where near the zone and got themsleves out.

Well, I'll have to take your word on that. I'm not watching the game, only listening. But we're winning...so I'm happy regardless. :O)

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:36 PM
Good game by Arroyo. Need a save here.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:37 PM
Cordero in to close it out. Let's see a 1-2-3 here Coco!

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:39 PM
Good game by Arroyo. Need a save here.

That's 2 nice ones back to back from Bronson. Tough loss against Peavy.

LvJ
05-22-2009, 09:40 PM
Just came in here to say:

Gomes :)

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:40 PM
A beach ball on the field.

Marty~ "somebody doing their best impersonation of a LA Dodger fan" hehe.

Sizemore K's.

mth123
05-22-2009, 09:43 PM
Good play by Gonzo. His best game all year.

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:43 PM
Ground out to Gonzo. 2 down.

Nice job by the Reds to shut down Martinez.

Red in Chicago
05-22-2009, 09:43 PM
GONZO - Hitting and fielding machine:cool:

nate
05-22-2009, 09:43 PM
Gonzo makes a nice play to get Martinez.

LoganBuck
05-22-2009, 09:44 PM
Just turned the game on, what a play by Gonzalez. Today is a good day.

nate
05-22-2009, 09:44 PM
Coredero strikes out Choo to win it!

_Sir_Charles_
05-22-2009, 09:44 PM
K

And this one belongs to the Reds!

Red in Chicago
05-22-2009, 09:44 PM
COCO made quick work of that one...very nice...

Gallen5862
05-22-2009, 09:45 PM
"And This One Belongs To The Reds."

HokieRed
05-22-2009, 09:50 PM
Good game for Gonzo and Gomes and also for Rosales 1 for 2 with 2 W's and an RBI.

Tom Servo
05-22-2009, 09:57 PM
Hey the Reds remembered about winning!

remdog
05-22-2009, 10:05 PM
This game pretty much guarantees that Dusty keeps Gonzo in the starting lineup everyday at least until the All-Star game.

Oh Boy!. I know I'm excited about that! I'm sure you are too. :p: Hey! Maybe Dusty will even move AG back up to the second slot! :eek:

Rem

LvJ
05-22-2009, 10:09 PM
Very good game on Peachtree [or Comcast Sports] right now.

Braves/Jays, 0-0 in the 8th.

guttle11
05-22-2009, 10:19 PM
You fellas know Johnny Gomes? Big fella, goes about 7'8", 385...

LvJ
05-22-2009, 10:25 PM
Wow, what a play by Prado...

redsmetz
05-22-2009, 11:15 PM
Back from the game. Frustrating all the runners left on base, but glad to see the club pull the win out for Arroyo. I texted my son when Gomes doubled and said, "Redszone is vindicated!".

And the big item of the game, my wife and I, our daughter and our goddaughter were the folks selected to move down to the Furniture Fair "Best Seats in the House". Comfy seats, but I didn't give the secret RZ signal.

Not bad for 4 for $40 and a free pizza from LaRosas and we found a free parking spot up by the library. Gorgeous night and good fireworks. And the much needed "W".

vaticanplum
05-22-2009, 11:21 PM
Back from the game. Frustrating all the runners left on base, but glad to see the club pull the win out for Arroyo. I texted my son when Gomes doubled and said, "Redszone is vindicated!".

And the big item of the game, my wife and I, our daughter and our goddaughter were the folks selected to move down to the Furniture Fair "Best Seats in the House". Comfy seats, but I didn't give the secret RZ signal.

Not bad for 4 for $40 and a free pizza from LaRosas and we found a free parking spot up by the library. Gorgeous night and good fireworks. And the much needed "W".

:)

traderumor
05-22-2009, 11:22 PM
This game pretty much guarantees that Dusty keeps Gonzo in the starting lineup everyday at least until the All-Star game.

Oh Boy!. I know I'm excited about that! I'm sure you are too. :p: Hey! Maybe Dusty will even move AG back up to the second slot! :eek:

RemMaybe he'll keep on hitting, which will make his playing time valuable. That's what I hope for, anyhow.

Kc61
05-22-2009, 11:56 PM
This game pretty much guarantees that Dusty keeps Gonzo in the starting lineup everyday at least until the All-Star game.

Oh Boy!. I know I'm excited about that! I'm sure you are too. :p: Hey! Maybe Dusty will even move AG back up to the second slot! :eek:

Rem

Somebody once showed that Gonzalez has rarely hit in the second slot on the Reds. And, yes, it would be exciting if he would get hot and help the Reds. Gonzo certainly made some terrific plays tonight and was involved in several double plays, he's always been a good shortstop, I'd like to see him succeed. I'm sure most of us would.

Razor Shines
05-23-2009, 03:14 AM
Well, I'll have to take your word on that. I'm not watching the game, only listening. But we're winning...so I'm happy regardless. :O)

Dude, you needed to see this game to believe how bad it was. Reyes was really, really having trouble getting it anywhere near the zone and a lot of the Reds hitters just let him off the hook and allowed him to hang around for 3 innings. He should have been KO'd in the first as bad as he was, I mean he was hurt for crying out loud.

I'm happy that they strung together some hits in the 8th though. It's really nice to get a win when you're offense gets itself out as many times as they did tonight.

Ltlabner
05-23-2009, 07:56 AM
Was at the game yesterday. Wow. The final score did not do justice in explaining how horrible the reds were. I mean pitiful intergalactic Godzilla of suck.

They won, and that was cool. But man, they did not deserve to win. Not one bit.

Highlights: Arroyo pitched well. Cordero pitched well. Gonzo had a nice defensive game. Freakbase played before the game and....well....it was a warm evening with a lot of pretty girls at GABP.

Lowlights: The rest of the game.

As has been pointed out all over this GT, the Reds were downright hideous at the plate. Words can not describe how horrible the batting performances were. We actually felt sorry for the Indians pitcher because something was so clearly wrong with him. Nonetheless, The Cincinnati "Dusty Said to be Aggressive" Reds couldn't stop swinging at pitches.

They swung at balls. They swung at the couple of strikes that came their way. They swung at low & away pitches. They swung at way outside pitches. They swung at balls in the dirt. They swung at a pigeon that flew by. I'm pretty sure someone swung at a floating hotdog wrapper.

It was a godawful performance that confirms everything I've thought about this team from the get go. Decent pitching, fake speed, flashes of some defense and crappy offense. They will have good games, they will have bad games and they will have a whole lotta medicore games. At the end of 162 we'll be nowhere near 1st place.

This post isn't so much a reactionary one related to this game (although I am irritated). But every weakness of the offensive side of the game was on full display. Speed was irrelevant. Arroyo's/Cordero's pitching and Gonzo's defense allowed them to stay close enough so that some lucky hits got the job done. Do that 162 games in a row and see if your luck holds out and hits drop in.

It was good that they won. I know people want to be optimistic about their team, but this team is going nowhere.

Falls City Beer
05-23-2009, 09:15 AM
Reds' Team OBP: .330
Cardinals' Team OBP: .330

edabbs44
05-23-2009, 09:28 AM
Nonetheless, The Cincinnati "Dusty Said to be Aggressive" Reds couldn't stop swinging at pitches.

The "aggressiveness" shown by this team has a lot more to do with the players than it does with the manager. It isn't as if the 2002 version of Barry Bonds came along and posted a .325 OBP.

Dunn showed standard patience under Baker. Votto has shown good patience this season. Hell, even Willy has shown increased patience.

Phillips, Gonzo and the rest of the violators have never known the value of being selective.

redsmetz
05-23-2009, 09:57 AM
Was at the game yesterday. Wow. The final score did not do justice in explaining how horrible the reds were. I mean pitiful intergalactic Godzilla of suck.

They won, and that was cool. But man, they did not deserve to win. Not one bit.

Highlights: Arroyo pitched well. Cordero pitched well. Gonzo had a nice defensive game. Freakbase played before the game and....well....it was a warm evening with a lot of pretty girls at GABP.

Lowlights: The rest of the game.

As has been pointed out all over this GT, the Reds were downright hideous at the plate. Words can not describe how horrible the batting performances were. We actually felt sorry for the Indians pitcher because something was so clearly wrong with him. Nonetheless, The Cincinnati "Dusty Said to be Aggressive" Reds couldn't stop swinging at pitches.

They swung at balls. They swung at the couple of strikes that came their way. They swung at low & away pitches. They swung at way outside pitches. They swung at balls in the dirt. They swung at a pigeon that flew by. I'm pretty sure someone swung at a floating hotdog wrapper.

It was a godawful performance that confirms everything I've thought about this team from the get go. Decent pitching, fake speed, flashes of some defense and crappy offense. They will have good games, they will have bad games and they will have a whole lotta medicore games. At the end of 162 we'll be nowhere near 1st place.

This post isn't so much a reactionary one related to this game (although I am irritated). But every weakness of the offensive side of the game was on full display. Speed was irrelevant. Arroyo's/Cordero's pitching and Gonzo's defense allowed them to stay close enough so that some lucky hits got the job done. Do that 162 games in a row and see if your luck holds out and hits drop in.

It was good that they won. I know people want to be optimistic about their team, but this team is going nowhere.

I know you keep repeating it that it was good that they won, and the truth is, it's never bad to pick up a win. Baseball is beautiful that way. Yes, this was a game that we didn't deserve to win. It makes up for some of the ones we didn't deserve to lose.

I think you're giving short shrift to the plus. Arroyo was excellent and that was with a strike zone that didn't seem to be giving him much, if anything, that was close. You correctly note that Gonzalez played superbly in the field and his hit was maybe just lucky, but he walloped it and if fell just beyond the reach of the RF'er's glove and, thanks, but we need a few of those from time to time.

Rosales made a gem of a play throwing the runner out at third on the bunt. Bruce's throw to third was a wonderful throw and Hairston just bobbled it on a bang bang play. But the runner didn't score and so no harm there.

Heavens the offense was anemic until it needed to be otherwise. Gomes certainly made RZ look brilliant and clearly we've lacked a late inning bat off the bench with some sock. But had the table been reversed and it was the Indians leaving 10 men on base, we'd have talked about the gutty performance of our pitcher. But I won't be so negative about a game we won, weak offensive performance or not. The offense kicked in just in time and gave Arroyo a nice W and Cordero masterfully earned an efficient save.

All in all, a win is a good night at the ballpark, IMO.

westofyou
05-23-2009, 10:01 AM
Was at the game yesterday. Wow. The final score did not do justice in explaining how horrible the reds were. I mean pitiful intergalactic Godzilla of suck.

Yet they won and they got your money.. thus they win twice in one day.

lollipopcurve
05-23-2009, 10:05 AM
Was at the game yesterday. Wow. The final score did not do justice in explaining how horrible the reds were. I mean pitiful intergalactic Godzilla of suck.

They won, and that was cool. But man, they did not deserve to win. Not one bit.

Highlights: Arroyo pitched well. Cordero pitched well. Gonzo had a nice defensive game. Freakbase played before the game and....well....it was a warm evening with a lot of pretty girls at GABP.

Lowlights: The rest of the game.

As has been pointed out all over this GT, the Reds were downright hideous at the plate. Words can not describe how horrible the batting performances were. We actually felt sorry for the Indians pitcher because something was so clearly wrong with him. Nonetheless, The Cincinnati "Dusty Said to be Aggressive" Reds couldn't stop swinging at pitches.

They swung at balls. They swung at the couple of strikes that came their way. They swung at low & away pitches. They swung at way outside pitches. They swung at balls in the dirt. They swung at a pigeon that flew by. I'm pretty sure someone swung at a floating hotdog wrapper.

It was a godawful performance that confirms everything I've thought about this team from the get go. Decent pitching, fake speed, flashes of some defense and crappy offense. They will have good games, they will have bad games and they will have a whole lotta medicore games. At the end of 162 we'll be nowhere near 1st place.

This post isn't so much a reactionary one related to this game (although I am irritated). But every weakness of the offensive side of the game was on full display. Speed was irrelevant. Arroyo's/Cordero's pitching and Gonzo's defense allowed them to stay close enough so that some lucky hits got the job done. Do that 162 games in a row and see if your luck holds out and hits drop in.

It was good that they won. I know people want to be optimistic about their team, but this team is going nowhere.
__________________

Sad.

A 1-1 game, excellent pitching from Arroyo, some very nice defense, and an exciting 2-run 8th with a big hit from the newcomer Gomes. Someyimes you can't get out of your own way for awhile, but in the end you come through -- and that makes it just a little sweeter, because you can put the frustration behind you.

Razor Shines
05-23-2009, 10:14 AM
Yet they won and they got your money.. thus they win twice in one day.

True, but I think he was more pointing out that winning the way that they did is not a repeatable skill.

westofyou
05-23-2009, 10:18 AM
True, but I think he was more pointing out that winning the way that they did is not a repeatable skill.

I beg to differ. Get an 8 inning start and only allow 5 hits and 2 walks and then get 3 DP's and you'll be in almost every game, even despite the fact that this team is not stacked with offense.

Razor Shines
05-23-2009, 10:20 AM
Sad.

A 1-1 game, excellent pitching from Arroyo, some very nice defense, and an exciting 2-run 8th with a big hit from the newcomer Gomes. Someyimes you can't get out of your own way for awhile, but in the end you come through -- and that makes it just a little sweeter, because you can put the frustration behind you.

For a player, sure.

You can't have watched that game last night and not been disgusted with the Reds plate discipline. Reyes had no business being allowed to hang around for 3 innings.

I'm happy they won, but I didn't see anything offensively that made me think they're getting better at the plate.

redsmetz
05-23-2009, 10:36 AM
For a player, sure.

You can't have watched that game last night and not been disgusted with the Reds plate discipline. Reyes had no business being allowed to hang around for 3 innings.

I'm happy they won, but I didn't see anything offensively that made me think they're getting better at the plate.

That's looking at the game through a microscope. Yes that part over there is uglier than sin, but lets not overlook the wonderful larger picture - we won. And as I said earlier, somedays you need to win games that you don't deserve to win (and the pitcher and defense might argue with that, as WOY pointed out), to offset the games you lose that you didn't deserve to lose. Put one in the Win column, please!

Ltlabner
05-23-2009, 10:41 AM
For a player, sure.

You can't have watched that game last night and not been disgusted with the Reds plate discipline. Reyes had no business being allowed to hang around for 3 innings.

I'm happy they won, but I didn't see anything offensively that made me think they're getting better at the plate.

This is exactly the point I was making.

Hey, if we want to put the blinders on and focus on just this game.....weee we're world champs! In that case, why not narrow the focus down to one inning? Or one at bat? Or one play?

I'm glad they won. The last two innings of the game were enjoyable and fun. But looking beyond the end of just last night, I don't see this approach (luck, hope and a little talent) resulting in playoff births.

Ltlabner
05-23-2009, 10:43 AM
...lets not overlook the wonderful larger picture - we won.

Agreed...but lets also not overlook the even larger picture of winning over the course of 162 games.

oneupper
05-23-2009, 10:43 AM
I can imagine what the indianzone.com people are saying about being unable to get to Arroyo and his 6.56 ERA coming in to the game.

The game WAS boring, but we'll take the W and I am very happy to see Gomes on the roster with lefties starting the next two games for Cleveland (Huff and Lee).

_Sir_Charles_
05-23-2009, 01:35 PM
Sometimes I think people just wait for a bad performance so they can pounce on it. I'm pleased with the win. I'm pleased with the pitching performances. I'm pleased with the defense. Did they struggle last night at the plate? Yep. But they HAVEN'T over the long haul as some here want to focus on. One night of poor plate discipline does not equal what we'll do over the long haul.

Seeing as how offense seems to be the focus of all the worry. Let's look at it. OBP, the favorite stat here on RZ. As a team, we're sitting at .330. Our competition....
Milwaukee at .349 (arguably the best offensive team in the central)
Houston at .332
Us at .330
Cards at .330
Cubs at .329
Bucs at .327

I don't see a problem there. OPS (the second favorite stat here)

Brewers at .778
Cards at .750
Astros at .740
Us at .737
Cubs at .733
Pirates at .720

Again, I don't see a problem.

Team strike outs versus walks?

Brewers 332 vs 184
Pirates 290 vs 131
Cubs 289 vs 148
Us 269 bs 140
Astros 239 vs 129
Cards 236 vs 137

Again, middle of the pack. Not an over abundance of K's and we're still drawing our fair share of free passes.

If our offense stays in the middle of the pack in the central, we'll be in this thing right up to the final day. So if you want to look at the big picture, then look at the performance in a bigger frame than last night. We'll be fine.

remdog
05-23-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't see a problem...

But, throughout your time on this board, I rarely, if ever, recall you seeing a problem. Everything is always 'hunky dory' yet the Reds haven't had a winning season since 2000.

This team has holes in it's lineup. It's hitters are impatient. It has a couple of legitimate HR hitters, one of which is laid low right now with a supposed 'ear infection' and they are playing a SS that hasn't played in a year and has both lost range and the ability to hit the ball (despite last night's success).

The Reds have a guy in CF that is, in reality, not all that good a CFer and a guy in RF that needs to get back to being patient at the plate. LF, right now, is a rotation of journeymen and hopeing to ride the hot hand. Of course, that's impeaded by a manager that is a 'player's manager' and doesn't want to 'dis' veterans that ain't getting it done.

The pitching has been solid, both in the starting rotation and the bullpen. Now they're running into some downtime and it needs to be seen if the minor league replacements and step up and perform. (famous shrug)

"Reality; what a concept" (author unknown).

Rem

Falls City Beer
05-23-2009, 03:21 PM
No, Sir Charles has it pretty much right: if the pitching doesn't start to tank (which, let's face it, should be just about the only thing a sane Reds' fan should really worry about now or ever), this offense should be sufficient.

nate
05-23-2009, 03:24 PM
No, Sir Charles has it pretty much right: if the pitching doesn't start to tank (which, let's face it, should be just about the only thing a sane Reds' fan should really worry about now or ever), this offense should be sufficient.

...to win half their games.

Which is fine. It's an improvement. To play baseball in October, they'll need to upgrade the offense and pitching in that order.

remdog
05-23-2009, 04:56 PM
No, Sir Charles has it pretty much right: if the pitching doesn't start to tank (which, let's face it, should be just about the only thing a sane Reds' fan should really worry about now or ever), this offense should be sufficient.

No, both you and sir Charles have it wrong.

Sufficient? Sufficient for what? Farmers' Night at the ball park and the cow milking contest?

FCB, you are possibly the least optomistic poster on this board (and often right in that approach) but saying that this offense is 'sufficient' is like a rookie getting picked off of first base because the pitcher faked a throw to third and then caught him at first with his jock tangled around his ankles. The rookie's lead was 'sufficient' but he didn't understand the overall picture.

Rem

Scrap Irony
05-23-2009, 06:05 PM
Differing opinions, rem. Why make fun of those that think perhaps the offense might be sufficient? What purpose does that serve, aside from making people angry enough to oppose everything you might say?

Ltlabner
05-23-2009, 07:35 PM
Sometimes I think people just wait for a bad performance so they can pounce on it.

Yea. Couldn't be that I was actually at the game last night and wanted to comment on it.


So if you want to look at the big picture, then look at the performance in a bigger frame than last night.

I did.

And the performance I saw does not translate to winning baseball over the long haul. You can't expect your pitching staff to pitch that well each and every time. You can't count on your defense to save your butt every game. Those bloop hits don't always fall in.

Do I hope they do? Of course. Contrary to the opinion of some, we all want the Reds to play in the WS (and win it). But counting on hope, wing and a prayer doesn't usually translate to long-term success.

_Sir_Charles_
05-23-2009, 11:25 PM
Firstly, let me say that my post wasn't directed at anybody in particular...just a general observation of the vibe this forum gets sometimes. It's most prevalent in game threads though.


But, throughout your time on this board, I rarely, if ever, recall you seeing a problem. Everything is always 'hunky dory' yet the Reds haven't had a winning season since 2000.

No, I've seen problems. Lots of them. I loathe seeing Phillips hitting cleanup. I loathed seeing Patterson/McDonald for longer than a week. I loathed seeing us resigning Lincoln & Weathers when we had as good in the minors for cheap. I loathe our baserunning as a team when we should be TONS better. I loathe seeing us keep sending players out on the field when it's obvious they're a detriment to the club (Gonzo for example).

But overall, yes...I'm upbeat and try to be positive. Apparently that annoys some people here. Tough, I ain't changing just to suit others. (again, not directed at you specifically...I've gotten a nice rash of pretty rude PM's lately). The Reds haven't had a winning season since 2000...true. But that's the past. It's got NOTHING to do with THIS seasons' club. It's going in the right direction IMO. If you disagree...fine. Agree to disagree then.


This team has holes in it's lineup. It's hitters are impatient. It has a couple of legitimate HR hitters, one of which is laid low right now with a supposed 'ear infection' and they are playing a SS that hasn't played in a year and has both lost range and the ability to hit the ball (despite last night's success).

There are VERY few teams that don't have holes in thier lineup. But remember that OUR lineup is missing (or has been missing) two of it's most important cogs in Votto and Edwin. Those 2 bats make a lot of difference IMO. In regards to Gonzo...I agree with you about his bat, but his range has looked remarkably good to me. His defense has been one of the most pleasant surprises of the season thus far IMO.

What do you mean by "supposed" ear infection?

Only a "couple" of legit HR hitters? Who would those be? I see Votto, Bruce, Phillips, Edwin, Ramon and several others who are more than capable of getting their fair share of jacks.

As for the impatient part....I somewhat agree. But we've got young hitters. When they slump...they'll press. When they press, they get overly anxious and impatient. It's not something I don't expect from young players. But overall, we've seen good long strings of improved patience from our hitters too. Don't ignore the positive just to focus on the negative. Taveras has been much more patient as a hitter this year. Votto is quite patient. Phillips has shown nice stretches. Ramirez has been solid all year. Several of the others...it comes and goes as their slumps come and go. But overall, as a team, we're middle of the pack in terms of patience at the plate and drawing walks. But I'd LOVE to see some improvement, no doubting that.


The Reds have a guy in CF that is, in reality, not all that good a CFer and a guy in RF that needs to get back to being patient at the plate. LF, right now, is a rotation of journeymen and hopeing to ride the hot hand. Of course, that's impeaded by a manager that is a 'player's manager' and doesn't want to 'dis' veterans that ain't getting it done.

You're obviously not a fan of Taveras. Fine. But how about you ignore what you don't like about him or what you've seen in his past. How about THIS season? I don't see a whole lot to complain about. He just came off a 0 for 17 streak after the 'zona series. Prior to that series his avg hit a season high of .322. After the slump it had fallen to .283. People are saying that he's "come back to earth" lately. I'm not seeing it. This month he's hit .294 prior to tonight. He's drawn 13 walks thus far (something well ahead of what everyone expected). His defense has been flat out solid (despite playing way too shallow for my tastes and his questionable routes). But THIS season, he's been fine.

Bruce...yeah, he's been hot/cold to extremes. Everybody knew about his tendancy to strikeout from the minors. It's something he needs to work on, but I don't think anybody dislikes his potential for the future. He's young...give him time.

Left field...I don't know what to tell you. I was hoping Dickerson would take the reins and run with it. Hasn't happened. Everybody's been begging for Gomes...well, he's here. We'll see what happens. For me, as long as I see solid defense out there and get SOME production at the plate...I can live with it for now. If we're in the hunt late in the season, I think it'll get addressed. If not, we'll see what the kids can do in the minors or address it in the offseason.

The part about Dusty not wanting to "dis" his veterans who aren't cutting it...I ain't buying that. The ONLY guy I see getting playing time who's a vet and isn't getting it done is Gonzo. Other than that, I see a club full of young guys. And since day one, they've said that defense is a huge priority for them...while I think Janish is a fine defender, Gonzo's no slack out there either. But if he doesn't find his stick...and find it SOON...we've GOT to try another option there. Be it JHJ or Janish.


The pitching has been solid, both in the starting rotation and the bullpen. Now they're running into some downtime and it needs to be seen if the minor league replacements and step up and perform. (famous shrug)

"Reality; what a concept" (author unknown).

Rem

Again, I agree. But the main thing that was discussed was the supposedly "horrible" offense. Does anybody here think the Cubs offense is "horrible"? Well, if your main number that you look at is runs scored to determine the "suckyness" of an offense...well, we're right with the Cubs. And that's without Votto/Edwin. At this point in the season, to be middle of the pack in offense, that's a GOOD sign (at least to me). A team that's going for "small ball" is NOT going to score a ton of runs. It'll win close games and hold down the oppositions' scoring. Thus far, that's what we've done from what I can see.

Sorry for the long post, but I've kinda gotten pounced on this past week and I needed to vent a bit. :O)