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Topcat
05-25-2009, 01:45 AM
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/103894-twins-lack-trade-value

He may not be great but he has some decent talent , what relievers package would it take ? personally I could see guys like Masset and Fisher making this trade possible

Jpup
05-25-2009, 07:47 AM
I'd rather have Masset and Fisher.

hebroncougar
05-25-2009, 08:48 AM
I'd take a shot at it.......my guess would be he's tremendously undervalued right now. I wouldn't give up a ton though, that's the point of getting someone while they are undervalued.

Eric_the_Red
05-25-2009, 10:04 AM
I'd say it's a good time to buy low on Young. I don't understand how a player with his potential has been so mediocre. Is he one of those players that performs in the minors only to flame out in the bigs (Larson) or does he need a classic "change of scenery" to get things going? I think it would be worth a middle reliever to find out. Burton maybe?

Scrap Irony
05-25-2009, 11:18 AM
I'd like to see Cincinnati deal for him. He's only 23 and could flourish in a park that doesn't have artificial turf. Too, it's homer friendly, allowing Young 20-25-homer possibility. His biggest problem, by far, is his BB rate, or lack thereof. He's never walked a lot, but he's been downright horrid for awhile now.

Falls City Beer
05-25-2009, 11:34 AM
I'd rather have Masset and Fisher.

Me too.

membengal
05-25-2009, 12:49 PM
I was all for this in the off-season, but don't want to see Masset and Fisher sent for him now. Can they get him cheaper than that? If so, great. Otherwise, not so much...

M2
05-25-2009, 12:54 PM
Some team is going to get Young for next to nothing and it could find itself with an impact bat (particularly if he gets to play in a tiny park).

When this guy busts out, and he will (if not this season, then in the coming years), he's going to be a high BA power bat. If the Reds paired him with Bruce and Votto, the club would have a 3-4-5 combination around which it could build an offense for the next five or so seasons.

Will M
05-25-2009, 01:00 PM
Bailey for Young???

IMO its time to trade Bailey for some other former top prospect who also seems to need a change of scenery. Delmon Young fits this category. So does Brandon Wood.

Dan
05-25-2009, 01:19 PM
The Twins traded a top prospect for Young a little over a year ago and already want to unload him? What does that tell you?

RedEye
05-25-2009, 02:09 PM
Bailey for Young???

IMO its time to trade Bailey for some other former top prospect who also seems to need a change of scenery. Delmon Young fits this category. So does Brandon Wood.

I'd do that in a second, actually. They are almost mirror images of each other at different positions.

My only additional concern is Delmon's fielding. I somehow have the impression that he is a god awful OF--hence the Rays traded him because he didn't fit with their defense-oriented plan. I may be wrong about that though.

fearofpopvol1
05-25-2009, 03:20 PM
I would trade Massett and Fisher for Young. I'd prefer to try to keep 1 of the 2 though and package someone else (or a couple others). I'd rather move Roenicke than either of those 2.

I actually really like the idea of Bailey for Young though. As pointed out, they're very similar in their own respects.

corkedbat
05-25-2009, 10:53 PM
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/103894-twins-lack-trade-value

He may not be great but he has some decent talent , what relievers package would it take ? personally I could see guys like Masset and Fisher making this trade possible

Blech, I might give'em Weathers and maybe Bray if the were healthy. If the twins were willing to include something useful in addition to Young, I might be willing to add Reonicke in addition to Stormy. Masset and Fisher are too much to give up for a chronic under-acheiver with a crappy attitude though.

M2
05-25-2009, 11:36 PM
FWIW, George Foster was once a disappointing, sulky, underachieving player too. Young's got a similar game.

westofyou
05-26-2009, 12:11 AM
FWIW, George Foster was once a disappointing, sulky, underachieving player too. Young's got a similar game.

Interesting comp, Delmon has 2 times as many AB's and has yet to play a full year 23 season.... he has less pop and more BA in his make up, he's chock full of doubles and would rock in the GAB is a good guess, with occasional streak's of out making in the Jose Guillen and Brandon Phillips range.


DELMON YOUNG

AGE < 24

YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG SLG OBA OPS
2006 Rays 20 30 126 16 40 9 1 3 2.38 10 1 24 2 2 .317 .476 .336 .812
2007 Rays 21 162 645 65 186 38 0 13 2.02 93 26 127 10 3 .288 .408 .316 .723
2008 Twins 22 152 575 80 167 28 4 10 1.74 69 35 105 14 5 .290 .405 .336 .741
TOTALS 344 1346 161 393 75 5 26 1.93 172 62 256 26 10 .292 .413 .326 .739
LG AVERAGE 1314 185 355 72 7 39 2.93 177 126 246 22 8 .270 .424 .338 .761
POS AVERAGE 1329 197 368 76 8 46 3.43 198 132 266 21 8 .277 .449 .346 .794



GEORGE FOSTER

AGE < 24

YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG SLG OBA OPS
1969 Giants 20 9 5 1 2 0 0 0 0.00 1 0 1 0 0 .400 .400 .400 .800
1970 Giants 21 9 19 2 6 1 1 1 5.26 4 2 5 0 0 .316 .632 .381 1.013
1971 Giants 22 36 105 11 28 5 0 3 2.86 8 6 27 0 1 .267 .400 .304 .704
Reds 22 104 368 39 86 18 4 10 2.72 50 23 93 7 6 .234 .386 .289 .675
TOTALS 140 473 50 114 23 4 13 2.75 58 29 120 7 7 .241 .389 .292 .681
1972 Reds 23 59 145 15 29 4 1 2 1.38 12 5 44 2 1 .200 .283 .230 .513
TOTALS 217 642 68 151 28 6 16 2.49 75 36 170 9 8 .235 .372 .282 .654
LG AVERAGE 674 81 175 27 5 15 2.24 75 65 98 10 6 .259 .381 .326 .707
POS AVERAGE 681 91 182 30 6 16 2.32 76 66 109 15 8 .268 .399 .334 .733

Playadlc
05-26-2009, 03:07 AM
Bailey for Young???

IMO its time to trade Bailey for some other former top prospect who also seems to need a change of scenery. Delmon Young fits this category. So does Brandon Wood.

Yes. This deal makes a lot of sense. IMO, Young just has more upside than Bailey. Would the Twins make that trade?

I don't know how teams like Cincinnati can't be interested in guys like Delmon Young.

Topcat
05-26-2009, 04:56 AM
I feel Vindicated! Woy feels the same. Last I Checked most wanted to chuck Masset to the Curb. Sorry but Young would start for us and would definitely help long term.

Falls City Beer
05-26-2009, 09:05 AM
I would trade Massett and Fisher for Young. I'd prefer to try to keep 1 of the 2 though and package someone else (or a couple others). I'd rather move Roenicke than either of those 2.

I actually really like the idea of Bailey for Young though. As pointed out, they're very similar in their own respects.

Delmon was a chip used to rip off his current team, sending the final pieces of the AL Champs to Tampa.

I'd have much preferred Bailey for current production (Dye) than one with the emotional profile of Elijah Dukes/Lastings Milledge, but I guess it wouldn't be the worst consolation prize.

Young would start? Where? I'd take Dickerson over Young, at least this season.

blumj
05-26-2009, 09:44 AM
I just have never seen it with Delmon Young. He looks like a bad baseball player to me, and not even that much of an athlete.

lollipopcurve
05-26-2009, 12:27 PM
No to Young. When Tampa Bay and Minnesota can't wait to trade a young talent, you have to wonder. Delmon's been on the national radar since he was about 15 -- he's either burnt out or feeling entitled. Whatever the case, I don't think it's a quick fix.

Besides, I think that between Stubbs, Heisey and Frazier, you've got enough RH-hitting outfielders on the way to make Young redundant as soon as next year. And I feel certain that Gomes is going to give the team more of what it needs this year than Young would.

Young is already putting on weight -- he's starting to look just that little bit like his brother. Another reason to stay away.

TRF
05-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Does Delmon have any options left? I'd trade Bailey for Young straight up, and if he has options, send him to AAA and tell him to earn his way back to the big leagues.

M2
05-26-2009, 01:48 PM
Whatever the case, I don't think it's a quick fix.

He may not be, though, with regular work, he should be able to deliver something close to his career BA and OB averages with a little extra pop thanks to the GAB.

Plus, as you note, the problem with him isn't his abilities. Supposedly Dusty Baker's strength is getting his players in the right head space. You get this guy right and he's a star. The Reds don't have anybody like that in the minors, at least on the near horizon.

There are safer moves the Reds could make. There are surer things. The only reason Young's available is because he's struggling. Yet he's miles ahead of anything else the Reds could get in terms of upside. How do you win 90+ games for half a decade? How do you challenge for a World Series? If you take a chance on Young and it pans out, then you've got the kind of affordable star power a team like the Reds needs to make a serious run.

lollipopcurve
05-26-2009, 02:28 PM
He may not be, though, with regular work, he should be able to deliver something close to his career BA and OB averages with a little extra pop thanks to the GAB.

Plus, as you note, the problem with him isn't his abilities. Supposedly Dusty Baker's strength is getting his players in the right head space. You get this guy right and he's a star. The Reds don't have anybody like that in the minors, at least on the near horizon.

There are safer moves the Reds could make. There are surer things. The only reason Young's available is because he's struggling. Yet he's miles ahead of anything else the Reds could get in terms of upside. How do you win 90+ games for half a decade? How do you challenge for a World Series? If you take a chance on Young and it pans out, then you've got the kind of affordable star power team like the Reds needs to make a serious run.

I can see being intrigued by Young. His case is usually the kind I advocate for -- the still young, once elite talent who teams have soured on. He fits that profile pretty perfectly -- not yet 24, former #1 overall pick, and a nice MLB track record at the plate for ages 21 and 22. And I agree with you that Baker may be just the right guy to get performance out of him.

For some reason I'm not feeling it with Delmon -- it's the intangibles. I wouldn't object to them taking a flyer on him, but I would hope they would not give up any of their best minor league talents in so doing.

fearofpopvol1
05-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Delmon was a chip used to rip off his current team, sending the final pieces of the AL Champs to Tampa.

I'd have much preferred Bailey for current production (Dye) than one with the emotional profile of Elijah Dukes/Lastings Milledge, but I guess it wouldn't be the worst consolation prize.

Young would start? Where? I'd take Dickerson over Young, at least this season.

I get the current production argument...but we're talking about Bailey for 1 year of Dye essentially. Dye would not have been the missing piece for this season. I'd rather trade 1 headcase for another (although I think Bailey has made some progress here) who has actually produced something at The Show and profiles to continue to improve. I like Young's future better than Bailey's.

Falls City Beer
05-26-2009, 03:52 PM
I get the current production argument...but we're talking about Bailey for 1 year of Dye essentially. Dye would not have been the missing piece for this season. I'd rather trade 1 headcase for another (although I think Bailey has made some progress here) who has actually produced something at The Show and profiles to continue to improve. I like Young's future better than Bailey's.

I like longshot offensive players more than longshot pitchers, so I too would take a Young for Bailey.

As far as Bailey for Dye, I'd say Dye's production is probably worth a game or two more than what is currently being produced by the offense. He'd sure help bridge the gap between the Brewers' offense and the Reds'. That's a perfect gamble.

westofyou
06-07-2009, 02:06 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/07/opinion/07glanville-youngs.html?ref=sports

June 7, 2009
Op-Extra Columnist | Heading Home
Baseball Family Secrets
By DOUG GLANVILLE


I haven’t spent a lot of time watching “MTV Cribs,” but I know the host likes to check the featured homeowner’s DVD collection for a copy of “Scarface.” Apparently, owning this movie is the key to street credibility (by “MTV Cribs” standards), and it is understood that the homeowner will play it for anyone who sets foot inside.

We all have our favorite movies, and I have some staples of my own in my collection — “A Few Good Men,” “Sixth Sense” — but I would never demand that visitors watch those movies as a rite of passage into my “crib.” However, a few months ago, the executive producer of MLB Productions, who is a friend of mine, sent me a housewarming gift of some classic documentaries about baseball. The jewel of the package was a contemporary piece called “We Are Young,” and if you are ever in my home, expect to sit down and take it all in. (Alternative plan: It will air on MLB Network this coming Friday at 3 p.m. EST.)

I have seen a lot of footage on the life of a baseball player, but this story captures the essence of what a lot of players carry with them at all times: the worry about failure, the need to be driven. At times these forces are couched as inspiration and motivation, at times they come from a convergence of fear and a desire for approval — and this documentary shows that dichotomy, unapologetically and realistically.

I happen to know the family, at least the older son, Dmitri Young. I played most of my career against Dmitri and he was a fun-loving opponent. Always laughing, always having time to chat at first base. From the outside, you would think he didn’t have a care in the world, especially since he was also a stone-cold hitter. But this documentary took me inside his life. I learned about the family dynamic that shaped him.

Dmitri was a first-round draft pick, which means he had more opportunity to learn and grow than the average draft pick. The financial investment a team makes on “first-rounders” tends to allow for more latitude with the young player’s growing pains. Yet he was in the shadow of a strong father, a top-gun military man who made it clear that failure was not an option. And for the sake of his little brother Delmon, a rising star 11 years his junior, Dmitri could never show anyone that he struggled with meeting those expectations.

I myself came up chasing my big brother Ken, who was almost eight years my senior. I followed his every move and whatever he pursued, I pursued. He sparked my competitiveness, he gave me a goal. As I got older, I started to understand the pressure he must have been under and the exterior he had to keep to protect me from any disappointment or disillusionment. He had to stay strong, keep smiling, even when his heart may have been breaking.

And although my father was not a stern man with rigid regulations, like Dmitri’s he cast quite a shadow. He began teaching full-time in his native Trinidad by the age of 14. He went on to a teachers college and then became an assistant headmaster. But, unhappy with the way his career was progressing, he vowed to head to the United States and pursue medicine. When none of his school credits translated over to the education system in the United States, he began all over again, a 31-year-old freshman at Howard University, where he eventually got a medical degree and full qualifications for psychiatry. He had two careers before most people even figure out what they are doing for their first one.

I know now that my brother could have translated my father’s drive and success as pressure, but I would have never known it from his unwavering support in my life. He buffered those stresses and I was able to spread my wings; I never feared living up to my father.

But Dmitri internalized everything to free up Delmon, even to his own detriment. It was the ultimate sacrifice.

Play long enough and you become intimately connected to your fellow ballplayers. During my career, I spent considerably more time with my teammates than with my own family. But in crossing over into baseball retirement, I’ve realized that even within all that intimacy there is distance. I didn’t really know my teammates as well as I thought I did. We are often islands unto ourselves in those hallowed locker rooms. This is partly because as ballplayers we spend so much of our shared time focusing on game strategy, life on the field and all the fun elements that spin off from that life, while ignoring what really makes our teammates tick. I suppose it’s something we assume we know — we are all together in the same locker room, and many share similar stories of rising to the top. But beneath the surface, there are a lot of secrets, some that mask a lot of pain, most of them byproducts of the internal struggle to maintain a certain level in a hyper-competitive arena.

For instance, it manifested itself in the dark secrets of steroid use and how no one talked about it, no one could tell for sure who was doing what. It manifested in maybe having a teammate whose locker was right next to yours but having no idea that he was battling depression or anxiety. To acknowledge these challenges is to admit defeat, or anyway take away the edge you need to perform. Where do you go? This can eat people up in ways that often remain unrevealed and suppressed. In the world of professional sports, and baseball in particular, you don’t have time to reflect as much as is healthy, for there is always another game to play.

As players, we are doing what we love to do, and for the most part it’s an enjoyable ride. But trying to figure out why we try to excel can dampen the mood and leave us feeling inadequate. The price you sometimes pay for success is a feeling that you’re not doing enough, that you should be doing more, that you should somehow be “better.” Over time, many players mature and find ways to deal with this dynamic. It may get buried, or become masked in bravado, or re-channeled constructively to wreak havoc on your opponent. But even if we learn to harness our drive, that doesn’t mean peace comes with it.

As I watched “Young Larry” (as he calls himself), the father in the Youngs’ story, I was impressed by his ability, ultimately, to reflect on the pressure he had put his sons under. He was a caring father who wanted the best for his children and understood how to provide support through channeling his experience as a top gun. Dmitri and Delmon Young have just gone through another challenge with the loss of their mother, Bonnie, to pancreatic cancer last month. Yet they carry on, having learned to stay close to their nuclear family, no matter what. Dmitri is now fighting to come back from a stint on the disabled list with the Washington Nationals, still taking it one day at a time. Delmon is an established player with the talented Minnesota Twins.

I connected to Dmitri’s story because it showed how the rollercoaster of emotions inside so many players can often be traced back to the people who cared about them the most. And if you have the time and want to understand what I’m trying to express in this column at the most core level, take a look at “We Are Young.” Or come by my “crib” and I’ll play it for you. And you will understand, like never before, what an amazing ride a life in baseball can be.