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thatcoolguy_22
05-25-2009, 11:38 PM
Older ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=3266802) article


It seams inevitable that Cuban baseball players will eventually be freely allowed to play in the US. My question is the first year that the talent is introduced how should MLB bring the talent into the league? Would you prefer a draft or pure FA? I'm interested in everyone's input on what will and what you would like to occurr.

BCubb2003
05-25-2009, 11:42 PM
I'm in favor of a global draft, anyway. I know there are some consequences to that, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that Latin players are treated separately from others.

Eric_the_Red
05-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I agree- draft. Free agency only benefits the high bidders with deep pockets and the players' "handlers" of questionable character. It does nothing to help the system, the players or small to mid-market teams. ESPN the Magazine had a great story about the flaws in the current Latin America/MLB system a few issues ago.

klw
05-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I saw the thread title and thought for a second this may be a restaurant review.

OnBaseMachine
05-26-2009, 04:10 PM
After watching Cuba play in the World Baseball Classic, I can only hope that the US and Cuba work things out, and fairly soon too. I would hate to see Major League Baseball miss out on all that great talent. I was very impressed with Cuba's talent, most notably 21-year old lefthander Aroldis Chapman. If Chapman was eligible for the 2009 draft, he would probably go #2 overall behind Stephen Strasburg.

bucksfan2
05-26-2009, 04:26 PM
Here is the issue. If it happens in the near future you would open up another market for baseball prospects. But you will also have a wide range of ages, developments, projections, etc. You could have a 28 year old MLB ready third baseman, if you have an international draft would he enter that? Would a team pass on a 18 year old prospect to draft a MLB ready player? Would you open up Cuba to a one year international free agency period and then in year two make the country like Puerto Rico?

oneupper
05-26-2009, 04:32 PM
If Cuba were to open up (and that is a HUGE if), I don't see how you could treat its players any differently than those from Venezuela and the Dominican Republic (i.e. FA).

That said, knowing this, I wouldn't be surprised if the Cuban government itself wouldn't set up some sort of procedure, which would probably involve -unsurprisingly- payments to the Cuban government.

Its all speculation at this point, I hardly see the "inevitability" of a break in the Cuban Dam. Don't be surprised if, on the other hand, the Venezuelan government doesn't start imposing restrictions on the signing of its nationals.

thatcoolguy_22
05-26-2009, 10:44 PM
Here is the issue. If it happens in the near future you would open up another market for baseball prospects. But you will also have a wide range of ages, developments, projections, etc. You could have a 28 year old MLB ready third baseman, if you have an international draft would he enter that? Would a team pass on a 18 year old prospect to draft a MLB ready player? Would you open up Cuba to a one year international free agency period and then in year two make the country like Puerto Rico?

FA- provides more talent for the rich while leaving scraps for mid market america. The only plus for this system would really be the simplicity for Bud Selig to put it in place. Dominant teams can afford the major league ready players, pass or fail. However with the prospects the mid teir teams will still be a factor. Look at this and last year. The A's gave 4.5 mil to Inoa and the Reds spent almost 5 mil between Rodriquez and Duran. The Pirates are rumored to be dropping something along the line of 3 and change for this years top international FA. The prospects will get paid and divided up evenly with most teams putting a larger chunk of payroll into development.

Draft- Works for everyone. I wouldn't be opposed to a seperate Cuban draft for the first year. A worldwide draft makes more sense in the long run but, what type of effect will it have on the current 16 year old kids looking for a payday? Will teams be willing to spend a first round draft pick on 16 year old Yorman Rodriquez with a Yonder Alonso waiting to be picked up? The current FA pool allows teams to sit on their investments longer. We often talk draft strategy debating high school vs college, what if the question changed to college player or soon to be old enough to drive latin player? I'm for a worldwide draft but I think we're not looking at all of the trickle down effects it could have. Also in the first year draft of the Cuban born players the debates between 31 year old SP vs 17 year old SS would be fun ;)

Scrap Irony
05-26-2009, 11:05 PM
Love to see a world-wide draft, with all players available at 18. We'll probably never see it, but it would be fun to see a fifth round pick like Johnny Cueto.

tommycash
05-26-2009, 11:15 PM
I am just gonna play Devil's Advocate here, but if we open up Cuba to a draft, what keeps most of the older Cuban MLB ready players from signing for more money to play in Japan (or a similar leagb8ue in another country). Unless we make everyone play by the same rules, I don't think it is very fair to tell a 32 year old Cuban who could play in the majors today that he can't sign with the highest bidder. Now I also understand that if Cuba is opened up, the young guys need to be put in the draft (to keep it fair).

FYI, I am in favor of a domestic and international draft.

I hope I was clear in my message. I am a little overwhelmed in trying to spark good debate on the ORG. I want to do my best, since you all thought I deserved to be here.

Scrap Irony
05-26-2009, 11:25 PM
I get the 32 year old wanting more cash. He can ask for it from the team that drafts him. If not, he can always go to Japan. More power to him.

(I also wouldn't mind those who played in the Cuban National League to get some sort of "professional league" years count.

thatcoolguy_22
05-26-2009, 11:27 PM
I am just gonna play Devil's Advocate here, but if we open up Cuba to a draft, what keeps most of the older Cuban MLB ready players from signing for more money to play in Japan (or a similar leagb8ue in another country). Unless we make everyone play by the same rules, I don't think it is very fair to tell a 32 year old Cuban who could play in the majors today that he can't sign with the highest bidder.


NBA has the same problem. A team can draft a player that still plays for another professional team! There is no guarentee that the player will sign but, if you can "persuade" a player (and his previous team) to join the league then you have rights to negotiate. We see the same every year with highschool players drafted that still go onto college. Also if a 32 year old domestic Pitcher signs with a MLB league team he still goes through the 3 years league minimum and 3 years arb. Unless the player was promised more money up front. Nature of the beast. Just because a player's age is not typical for the entry into a team's development department does not mean they receive special treatment in regards to contracts.

tommycash
05-26-2009, 11:44 PM
Yes, but a 32 year old domestic pitcher has been available to MLB scouts since he was much younger, and is able to try out and sign earlier. A Cuban player? Not so much.

Nature of the Beast? Not if you are a Japanese player.

We treat players from different countries differently. IMO, that is wrong.

bucksfan2
05-27-2009, 09:29 AM
I am just gonna play Devil's Advocate here, but if we open up Cuba to a draft, what keeps most of the older Cuban MLB ready players from signing for more money to play in Japan (or a similar leagb8ue in another country). Unless we make everyone play by the same rules, I don't think it is very fair to tell a 32 year old Cuban who could play in the majors today that he can't sign with the highest bidder. Now I also understand that if Cuba is opened up, the young guys need to be put in the draft (to keep it fair).

FYI, I am in favor of a domestic and international draft.

I hope I was clear in my message. I am a little overwhelmed in trying to spark good debate on the ORG. I want to do my best, since you all thought I deserved to be here.

That was along my lines of thinking. But IMO after year 1 that wouldn't be a problem. After the first year of Cubans eligible to play baseball in the MLB all the older stars will be gone from that talent pool and everything will return to normal. IMO Cuba will be inserted into the USA and Puerto Rico draft for the simple reason that MLB will have its say so.

I am all for a international draft, that follows certain guidelines. I would exempt Japan from the draft because they have a rival league, but I would also allow any Japanese high schooler to enroll into the MLB draft. I would also do my best to get rid of the sleaze ball "agents" that prey on impoverished kids in Latin America. I would do my international draft some time after the season ended instead of having an international signing period. IMO if you have an international draft you will have a better system in place and better regulation of so called "agents" as well as birth dates, PED's, etc.

tommycash
05-27-2009, 09:46 AM
That was along my lines of thinking. But IMO after year 1 that wouldn't be a problem. After the first year of Cubans eligible to play baseball in the MLB all the older stars will be gone from that talent pool and everything will return to normal. IMO Cuba will be inserted into the USA and Puerto Rico draft for the simple reason that MLB will have its say so.

I am all for a international draft, that follows certain guidelines. I would exempt Japan from the draft because they have a rival league, but I would also allow any Japanese high schooler to enroll into the MLB draft. I would also do my best to get rid of the sleaze ball "agents" that prey on impoverished kids in Latin America. I would do my international draft some time after the season ended instead of having an international signing period. IMO if you have an international draft you will have a better system in place and better regulation of so called "agents" as well as birth dates, PED's, etc.


I agree with you here.

15fan
05-27-2009, 10:16 AM
US should buy Cuba. Make it the 51st state.

Problem solved.

tommycash
05-27-2009, 10:42 AM
US should buy Cuba. Make it the 51st state.

Problem solved.

After we get a loan from China to buy it.:D

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2009, 05:14 PM
There's a rumor going around that Aroldis Chapman has defected. I hope it's true. I want to see him pitch in the majors. His stuff is on par with a young Randy Johnson.


Rumor: Cuban LHP Aroldis Chapman has defected in Holland at the World Port Tournament. Seems unlikely, but never know

http://twitter.com/joe_kehoskie

The pitcher Aroldis Chapman left the national team in Holland
The news could not be confirmed by secondary sources CUBAENCUENTRO.com.

Editors CE | 01/07/2009

The pitcher Aroldis Chapman, the greatest promise among the pitchers of the island, would have left the baseball team on Thursday to participate in the tournament in Rotterdam (The Netherlands).

Chapman, of 21 years and owner of a line that reaches 100 miles per hour, as scheduled starter for the first match that the Cubans will compete against Taiwan.

A person who identified himself as left-handed pitcher was communicated by telephone Wednesday with CUBAENCUENTRO.com, from an unknown place, to report that he had left the team with the help of some friends.

This newspaper tried unsuccessfully to confirm the news with the Cuban authorities involved in the baseball tournament.

Rotterdam Cuba leads a staff of 24 new players, in which four out of Beijing Olympic runners and five team members who attended the II World Classic

http://www.cubaencuentro.com/es/deportes/noticias/el-pitcher-aroldis-chapman-abandona-el-equipo-nacional-en-holanda-190890

Big Klu
07-01-2009, 05:22 PM
US should buy Cuba. Make it the 51st state.

Problem solved.

We had that option in 1898. we passed.

(damned Platt Amendment....) :D:p:

OnBaseMachine
07-02-2009, 12:27 PM
11:10 AM: A source close to the situation says that 21-year-old Cuban LHP Aroldis Chapman indeed has defected. There were conflicting reports about the accuracy of a report about this story yesterday.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1327

Scrap Irony
07-02-2009, 12:41 PM
This year's Joba for the Yanks? Possible. According to the eye test, he could probably relieve in the majors now.

As for starting, he probably needs a year. Maybe a year and a half. But he's ace material and soon. I'd pay through the nose for him.

OnBaseMachine
07-02-2009, 01:24 PM
Top Cuban prospect defects
By Jorge Arangure
ESPN The Magazine

Aroldis Chapman, a Cuban considered by many scouts to be the best left-handed pitching prospect in the world, has defected from the national team, several sources have confirmed to ESPN The Magazine.

Chapman, 21, walked out of his hotel in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, where Cuba was participating in a tournament, and never returned, according to the Spanish-language Web site cubaencuentro.com, which first reported Chapman's defection.

Chapman told the site he was still in Europe, but would not reveal his location for safety reasons.

"I walked out easily, right through the hotel door, and I hopped into a car and left," Chapman told cubaencuentro.com. "It was easy. Now the plan is to sign with a major league team."

A source said Chapman was scheduled to fly to Miami on Thursday.

Chapman would be the most heralded defector since Jose Contreras, who left the national team in 2002 during a tournament in Mexico.

By several estimates, Chapman could garner a contract worth anywhere from $30 million to $60 million. Contreras received a four-year, $32 million contract from the New York Yankees in 2003, which at the time was the biggest ever given to a Cuban defector.

"Without a doubt [he is the best player to defect since Contreras]," agent Jaime Torres said Thursday.

Torres, who represented Contreras and is considered the top agent for Cuban defectors, said he has had no contact with Chapman yet.

Chapman is not a complete unknown; he pitched for Cuba at the World Baseball Classic this past spring.

"This is shocking," one international scouting director said about the magnitude of the defection.

Yet Chapman is still considered a fairly raw prospect. Though many considered him to be the most talented pitcher on the Cuban squad, Chapman posted only a 5.68 ERA in 6 1/3 innings during the WBC. Last year in the National Series in Cuba, Chapman had a 4.03 ERA in 118 1/3 innings.

And though his pitches have been clocked at 100 mph, some consider Chapman's secondary pitches to be only average. For that reason, many believe Chapman likely would have to start his professional career in the minors.

There also might be a question of Chapman's maturity level. Several times at the WBC, Chapman was demonstrative in his displeasure at the umpire's strike zone. At times, several of his teammates had to go to the mound to calm him.

And when he was finally removed in the third inning of a 6-0 loss against Japan in pool play, Chapman did not look at manager Higinio Velez, running straight into the clubhouse without slapping hands with any of his teammates.

Yet in that start, Chapman showed exactly why he will be highly coveted: In the first inning, Chapman threw a 100-mph pitch. Later in that game, Chapman hit 102 mph.

"I think the fastball he showed at the Classic was good enough," Torres said, jokingly.

Chapman also appears to have the charisma to make him a star in the majors. During the WBC, he regularly mugged for cameras and always offered smiles at reporters, though because of Cuba team rules, he was not allowed to speak to any of them.

"I'm very happy," Chapman said on cubaencuentro.com. "Until now everything has come out fine. This is the plan that I had and this was a decision I took. I wanted to test myself in the highest levels of baseball."

Because it's likely Chapman surrendered his passport to Cuban officials after arriving in Europe -- all Cuban players routinely do so, prior to any appearance outside of Cuba -- he will have some complications in establishing residency.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4302422

reds1869
07-02-2009, 01:25 PM
There is so much talent in Cuba. It is shameful that we don't get to see them and until the Castros die stubborness on both sides will keep it this way. There is a very easy way to get the Cuban government to open up (we deal openly with China and dozens of two-bit dictators for goodness sake), but that's for the Peanut Gallery and I won't even touch it on here.