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WMR
05-29-2009, 02:21 AM
Another record, perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw

Razor Shines
05-29-2009, 02:39 AM
Hmm...I really don't think that Wall is athletic enough to compete at an elite level. JMO.

Redhook
05-29-2009, 08:27 AM
Good stuff right there.

Is Wall ambidextrous? Most of the time he dunks left-handed, but shoots right-handed.

Scrap Irony
05-29-2009, 09:28 AM
From the Thread #3: cincrazy said, "Well, in fairness to my alma mater, the basketball program has been completely cleaned up, and Tressel has never been questioned the way Coach Cal has."

Hasn't he? Wouldn't the whole NCAA investigation into Clarett and public opinion on that mess-- guilty even after being "proven" innocent-- color tOSU fan perception? Or is it that whole same old, same old knee jerk reaction?

BRM
05-29-2009, 09:35 AM
Hmm...I really don't think that Wall is athletic enough to compete at an elite level. JMO.

Is that your honest opinion or are you just trying to rile up WMR? I haven't heard anyone say that before about Wall. I've heard "he's the type of player that gets coaches fired" but I've never heard he's not athletic enough.

WVRed
05-29-2009, 09:54 AM
Here is a post that was from KSR that described perfectly why Billy the Clyde is out. You can determine "just cause" if you want.


This has ended up being one of the busier two-day periods from a news perspective that we have seen in some time. Much has been written everywhere about the Calipari news, but I still think long-term that the Billy Gillispie lawsuit will stay with us longer. Because of that, I thought it might be good to look back at a piece I wrote the day after Gillispie was let go from UK. It is a good refresher on why the Clyde era ended and how the lawsuit rubs some (including this guy) the wrong way:

So its now completely over. With his Saturday morning press conference in Lexington, the Billy Gillispie era ended for the Big Blue Nation. Its hard to know exactly how Gillispie will be noted in the grand history of UK basketball. This is a program that went nearly 45 years with two coaches and now has had 2 in three years. Of the six coaches in the modern era, 4 won national championships, one was successful before probation, and then there is Billy. In thirty years, how will we look back on the two tumultuous years the man from Texas had as head of the monster known as Kentucky basketball? We likely wont know that for some time, but what we do know is that for the second time in three years, UK will be back on the search for a new basketball coach. However this time, the search will be much different….more deliberate, less centralized and even more crucial. The Gillispie era has ended but the all-important search for his replacement has just begun.

However before we completely close the book on Gillispie, I do think it is important to recognize how we got here. No matter what Digger Phelps, Michael Wilbon or any other national talking head may say, this decision had little to do with wins and losses. This was simply the case of an individual who was not well-suited to be the basketball coach at Kentucky. While he had moderate success on the floor, off the floor he was a Matt Doherty-like disaster. He never felt comfortable doing the things it takes to succeed here and his authoritarian personality rubbed almost everyone in the wrong way. If you win at Bobby Knight in the 1970s-like levels, you can act that way….but if you win Bobby Knight in the late 1990s-like levels, you cant.

Below are the Five moments that I think led to Gillispie’s downfall. This decision to remove Billy Clyde was not a quick one….it built slowly over time, with each mistake building on the other. Over time the total conglomeration made it too difficult to retain him, and a move had to be made. There is a lot speculated about what happened and when, but in my view and from the information that I know, these were the ultimate causes:

(1): Interpersonal Relationships with Administrators, Boosters and Staff

From very early on in Gillispie’s tenure it was clear that this was a man who would do things his own way and answer to almost no one. Within his first two months on the job, it is rumored that he and Mitch Barnhart began frequently bumping heads, almost exclusively over the inability of Gillispie to accept the secondary parts of the UK job. Within his first two months, he refused various meetings with influential alumni, cancelled a 60 year tradition of the Kentucky coach speaking at the Lexington Rotary Club, refused mutiple requests to do “program building” appearances at various in-state events and generally balked at doing all things that were not basketball related. He showed from the very beginning that he was here to do one thing and one thing only, and that was coach basketball….a job description that unfortunately does not work in Lexington.

In addition, Gillispie turned off many around the UK athletics office with his attitude and style. I have spoken with numerous UK employees who talked about the tension that all felt with Gillispie in the building. Whereas most who work for UK are part of a family atmosphere, there was a sense that Gillispie was rocking the cradle on how things were done. This led to a situation in which Gillispie had very FEW supporters among influential administrators, boosters and staff. All wanted Kentucky to win, but when losses mounted, there were few willing to go to bat for an individual that they had no particular fondness for. That lack of support, which began from Gillispie’s early days here made it much easier to make a change that very few would passionately disagree with.

(2) Derrick Jasper:

It cannot be overstated the impact that the Derrick Jasper situation had on the UK program. Derrick Jasper was a player loved by his teammates and all of those around the program. Jasper is a great kid and the type of player that helps a team both on and off the court. Derrick came to Kentucky for Tubby Smith, and was skeptical of staying in Lexington when a change in leadership occurred. But Gillispie sold Derrick on the idea of being the cornerstone of the new program, and Jasper decided to stay. However from the very beginning, the marriage was doomed to failure. Derrick is a very soft-spoken, mild-mannered kid who doesnt take over criticism well (much like Jodie Meeks). Gillispie’s style of coaching, which includes tremendous criticism and pitches to a player’s manhood destroyed Jasper’s confidence and made him very uncomfortable in practice and games.

Jasper was also of course dealing with his injury that continued to linger. Derrick did not want to return to the court, but after a trainer gave the opinion that he could, Jasper found himself playing again. I have never gotten a clear story on how Jasper ended up on the court (some say Gillispie pressured him into playing, some say that Jasper felt he had to when given the clearance from the trainer), but what is clear is that Derrick regretted his decision to come back. After returning, those close to Derrick have told me that Gillispie challenged the young man a great deal on his “toughness” and if he was going to keep “letting his injury be an excuse.” The treatment turned Jasper off and he made the decision to transfer….thus taking away Kentucky’s best point guard prospect and, potentially even more importantly, a teammate that was well-liked. This team with Jasper on it is a different basketball team, but Gillispie only has himself to blame for Derrick’s departure.

(3) The Media Problems:

For a long time, Gillispie’s prickliness with the media has been known. Since early in his tenure, his decision to mock a question or belittle and individual for saying something he disagreed with (usually with a smirk on his face) was known to all that covered him. Usually he would apologize after such a comment (as he did with me), but no one in the media had a “warm and fuzzy” relationship with him. And then came what I believe was the turning point for the perception of Gillispie, the Jeanine Edwards interviews. What happened in those interviews has been dealt with ad nauseum but three things happened as a result of those interviews.

First, for the first time since Gillispie had arrived, some in the public started to wonder if their beloved coach was actually a jerk. I have heard countless people, particularly women, ask if he was like that normally and question whether that public face should be the coach of the UK basketball program. Second, many in the media thought he crossed the line and it became the cause of the day to blast Gillispie and his attitude when the losing started. Most knew Edwards as a sweet, harmless reporter and seeing her treated poorly led the media to sense blood and begin questioning his attitude at other occasions. And third, it became a direct slap in the face for the Administration. After the first Edwards interview, the administration asked Gillispie to apologize and be careful what he did in the future. He did apologize, but then one week later at the Florida game, he was once again rude, an action that my sources around UK say INFURIATED Mitch and Lee Todd. The thought went that if knowing people were watching and that he needed to be on his best behavior, he STILL couldnt be polite, what hope was there for the future?

Even after all of those Jeanine Edwards issues, Gillispie then made another mistake that older UK fans still bring up to me all the time…..he was perceived as being rude to Tom Leach. Leach, who is one of the nicest men I know, was accused by Gillispie of trying to get him to “turn on his players” just days after Gillispie threw Perry Stevenson under the bus like none other in a post game press conference. Many fans who heard that, which include a lot of the most influential and wealthy UK fans who listen to Tom on their drive home from Rupp, felt that he had crossed the line with someone they consider like family, the UK play by play announcer. Even when Leach said he took no offense (a classy move on his part), the damage was done and the reputation of Billy Gillispie as a jerk stuck for many in the Big Blue Nation. Win and be a jerk and people may forgive you….go to the NIT and be a jerk, and it is time for a change.

(4) PLAYER RELATIONSHIPS

While all of the above are very important, the most significant factor in the downfall of Billy Gillispie was his relationship with the players. It is not an exaggeration to suggest that with only a couple of exceptions, the players simply did not like their coach at all. With a group of young men who were extremely tight as a group, every slight and verbal assault on a teammate became an assault on them and over time, the players simply had no affection for the man in charge. Over the course of a season, countless acts occurred that ruined team chemistry and individual confidence. I am sure there are many more than this, but just a few that I know for certain:

— Coach told Jodie Meeks in a number of games to stop shooting and decried him for his selfishness, even during his 54 point performance in Knoxville. He told Meeks he should quit on a number of occasions and even threatened to kick him off the team in his last game ever, in South Bend during the NIT.

— At halftime of one game, he forced a player to sit in a bathroom stall with the door closed during the entire break because he said he couldnt stand to look at him.

— On more than one occasion, when a young player went into his office to ask for advice on how he could get better, he returned from the office having been berated by the coach and crying as he returned to Wildcat Lodge.

— On one road trip, a player who had been injured but was deemed to be too “soft” by the Coach was told to walk to the hotel from the arena, and only after teammates said that they would be get off the bus and walk with him, was he allowed back on.

— On another road trip, a player who felt the criticism was so strong that he locked himself in a room crying, while the team bus waited outside.

These are just a few of the countless incidents, which in total made the team a gloomy group. Some individuals could handle the criticism and some were not targeted with nearly the same amount of vigor. But the totality of the criticism piled up and led to a team that was tight, afraid to make any mistake and left with no feelings of positivity to their coach. Had Gillispie returned, it is not an exaggeration to say that six to seven players may have left….including names that UK simply could not afford to lose. While no one has ever said this to me officially, the thought of that type of mass player exodus likely would have meant another year of mediocrity or worse next year….which means Gillispie would have been in hot water AGAIN. He simply could not have survived that.

On this site, we hinted at such issues during the year, but out of respect for the players and the team still playing, did not go into detail. But the evidence was there. Remember Dusty Mills and his comments to Jerry Tipton about the way he was treated? Derrick Jasper took heat for going to UNLV and was called a host of names by UK fans for his lack of toughness. Former players who were privy to a lot of those issues such as Kenny Walker, Bobby Perry and the unnamed Jeff Goodman source were LAMBASTED on message boards for speaking out about these very issues. What that showcased to me is that while we say we want to know everything about our program, we do not want to know bad news. Mitch and Lee knew about this and much, much more I am sure. Many fans, while ignoring the info they had been given and blaming the messenger, and not knowing a great deal of the other parts of the situation, nevertheless criticized those making the call. Hopefully that will be a situation that we attempt not to repeat going forward.

(5) The Final Straw:

At the SEC Tournament, I wrote on a live blog that “Billy’s commment about not being an ambassador may be the final straw.” In hindsight, I am even more confident that was the case. After the Ole Miss game, when Billy said he had “not signed on to” be am ambassador for the program, just days after Mitch Barnhart had publically made it clear that was part of the job description….well that was lights out for Billy Clyde. I spoke with someone who was around Lee Todd when he found about this quote and said he was “beyond upset” when he heard it. For a guy who was already on the brink to express that level of cluelessness as to what this job entails….well it meant he likely had to go.

FINAL

I believe this decision has been made for ten days or so and was just finalized and made public yesterday. It is a shame that it had to occur as there are parts of Gillispie’s personality, particularly his passion for the game, that could have been great here in Lexington. But at the end of the day, when your view on the program is different than the administation and when your relationship with players is as it was, it will be hard to succeed.….especially when you arent winning. Jodie Meeks came out this morning in the student newspaper and said that he respected Gillispie but that this was a “good decision.” After following this team for two years, interacting with nearly everyone involved in the program and seeing what I have seen, I think Jodie’s words are spot on. Gillispie is a good Coach and I think he will have success, but he cooked his own goose here. Kentucky needs a Coach who embraces the enormity of the program and succeeds at every facet of it, that was not Billy and the time for change had come.

dabvu2498
05-29-2009, 10:05 AM
Here is a post that was from KSR that described perfectly why Billy the Clyde is out. You can determine "just cause" if you want. Thing is, based on the statement released by the university, they are not going to try to prove he was fired for cause. They are going to argue that the memorandum was invalid because they had not come to terms on an "official" contract yet. That is the way I read the statement anyway.

WMR
05-29-2009, 01:28 PM
Good stuff right there.

Is Wall ambidextrous? Most of the time he dunks left-handed, but shoots right-handed.

It appears that way doesn't it. He may as well be.

He is equally adept finishing with either hand, often spectacularly.

WMR
05-29-2009, 01:34 PM
Is that your honest opinion or are you just trying to rile up WMR? I haven't heard anyone say that before about Wall. I've heard "he's the type of player that gets coaches fired" but I've never heard he's not athletic enough.

He's gotta be messing with me because Wall is an athletic freak of nature.

Many have called him the best high school player they have ever seen...

He will be the top pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, I am predicting.

BRM
05-29-2009, 01:35 PM
He's gotta be messing with me because Wall is an athletic freak of nature.


That's what I figure as well. It's just kind of a shock because he never messes with you like that....

WMR
05-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Cal is going to be on ESPN OTL today @ 3 pm per Bob Ley's twitter.

cincrazy
05-29-2009, 03:49 PM
From the Thread #3: cincrazy said, "Well, in fairness to my alma mater, the basketball program has been completely cleaned up, and Tressel has never been questioned the way Coach Cal has."

Hasn't he? Wouldn't the whole NCAA investigation into Clarett and public opinion on that mess-- guilty even after being "proven" innocent-- color tOSU fan perception? Or is it that whole same old, same old knee jerk reaction?

OSU should have never recruited Clarett. The guy was a nut case, as you can see with him being locked up. I'm not saying OSU is perfect. NO big program is perfect. I just thought it was absurd to group them with USC.

The NCAA found pretty much nothing, and I highly doubt they gave OSU a free pass on the matter.

WMR
05-29-2009, 04:38 PM
Fascinating series of letters between UK and the NCAA.

http://www.courier-journal.com/assets/B2135763529.PDF

Reds4Life
05-29-2009, 05:11 PM
From the Thread #3: cincrazy said, "Well, in fairness to my alma mater, the basketball program has been completely cleaned up, and Tressel has never been questioned the way Coach Cal has."

Hasn't he? Wouldn't the whole NCAA investigation into Clarett and public opinion on that mess-- guilty even after being "proven" innocent-- color tOSU fan perception? Or is it that whole same old, same old knee jerk reaction?

I recall reading something recently that THE Ohio State University is going to lose some scholarships in mens basketball because of poor grades. Thier APR is under the minimum acceptable level.

BuckeyeRed27
05-29-2009, 05:57 PM
I recall reading something recently that THE Ohio State University is going to lose some scholarships in mens basketball because of poor grades. Thier APR is under the minimum acceptable level.

That is due to the one and done players not staying until the end of the quarter. Nothing to do with poor grades.

Reds4Life
05-29-2009, 06:14 PM
That is due to the one and done players not staying until the end of the quarter. Nothing to do with poor grades.

Still NCAA sanctions.

BuckeyeRed27
05-29-2009, 06:27 PM
Still NCAA sanctions.

Yes. But you were trying to make the OSU basketball team look like they had class room problems which is not the case.

Infact UK might have the very same problem next year after several of these guys leave.

WVRed
05-29-2009, 11:12 PM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/deadspin/2009/05/erin1.png

cincrazy
05-29-2009, 11:40 PM
Still NCAA sanctions.

Correct, but the Buckeyes had low point totals from the Jim O'Brien days that Matta has substantially rose, unfortunately not far enough. You combine that with Oden and Koufas screwing us over by enrolling spring quarter yet leaving early, and there you have it.

Razor Shines
05-30-2009, 02:22 AM
Is that your honest opinion or are you just trying to rile up WMR? I haven't heard anyone say that before about Wall. I've heard "he's the type of player that gets coaches fired" but I've never heard he's not athletic enough.

Yeah, I'm messing with him. I think Wall is stupid good.

Razor Shines
05-30-2009, 02:26 AM
From the other thread:

Lots of people have always hated Kentucky. Whether deserved or not, this type of situation gives them ammo to stop by in this thread and make a post like CrackerJack calling the coach a "scumbag" etc. etc. Very immature and not accurate considering the facts of the situation, but people like that are best just ignored. Haters hate. It's what they do.

As the lone Duke fan on this board, who has taken quite a bit of abuse from UK fans (namely you), I just wanted to respond to this with: Waaaaaaa. :runawaycr

WVRed
05-31-2009, 11:06 PM
Rumor over the weekend is that Xavier Henry isn't too happy at KU right now.

Hoosier Red
06-01-2009, 09:03 AM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/deadspin/2009/05/erin1.png


I love hearing that ESPN is biased against UK. What's next the Duke fans complaining? USC football complaining about unfair coverage?
Jeez.

dabvu2498
06-01-2009, 09:51 AM
I love hearing that ESPN is biased against UK. What's next the Duke fans complaining? USC football complaining about unfair coverage? Jeez. It's jealousy. Any criticism of the UK program is jealousy. The UK program is infallable and any criticism is unfair and based on wanting to be more like UK! ;)

BRM
06-01-2009, 10:13 AM
Rumor over the weekend is that Xavier Henry isn't too happy at KU right now.

Has he even set foot on campus yet?

Joseph
06-01-2009, 12:57 PM
It's jealousy. Any criticism of the UK program is jealousy. The UK program is infallable and any criticism is unfair and based on wanting to be more like UK! ;)

Not all UK fans believe that, just FYI.

I'm one who doesn't go for the jealousy thing and am a huge UK fan.

The rhetoric from both sides leaves me more annoyed than anything.

dabvu2498
06-01-2009, 02:11 PM
Not all UK fans believe that, just FYI. I'm one who doesn't go for the jealousy thing and am a huge UK fan. The rhetoric from both sides leaves me more annoyed than anything. Agreed 100 percent. It would be nice for a few more UK fans to take a step back from the party line to gain a bit greater perspective.

improbus
06-01-2009, 07:42 PM
Yep, ESPN hates UK, except for that Jamal Mashburn guy that works for them...

WVRed
06-01-2009, 10:08 PM
Yep, ESPN hates UK, except for that Jamal Mashburn guy that works for them...

Don't forget Jimmy Dykes. He was a grad assistant at UK and is actually more UK friendly than any of the other announcers.

WVRed
06-01-2009, 10:13 PM
I realize that Matt Jones is probably not the best person to quote in a lot of these situations, but when it comes to the legal issues, he would likely be a safer bet than Marc right now.

This is from KSR:


Its been a great weekend in the Bluegrass. Many folks found themselves in Louisville for the Kenny Chesney concert, we had a photo contest (with winners later today), I had my annual rite of passage of watching an MTV award show and feeling old and (insert reporter name here) wrote something bad about the Cats. The latest news of the day is the report that Xavier Henry may be unhappy at Kansas and looking elsewhere. This story was first suggested at another site, and has taken on a life of its own in the last few hours. As of this point, nothing official has happened with Henry and the only school that has been mentioned as a potential visit if Henry changes his mind on Kansas, is UCLA. Nevertheless folks are talking and we will let you know if anything comes of the rumor mill.

My interest however has been consumed with the train wreck on the horizon in the form of the Billy Clyde lawsuit. For those of you that were on vacation in the Caribbean, Clyde ran off last week and filed a lawsuit in Texas, alleging all kinds of bad deeds by the University of Kentucky and asking for 6 million dollars and a piece of Mitch Barnhart’s scalp. UK then quickly followed up the next day with a countersuit in state court in Frankfort, asking for a court to announce officially that Billy Clyde is crazy and to attempt to “pull a Ted Haggard” and ban him from all establishments within the Commonwealth. Due to my primary gig as a lawyer (with Jones and Bruce, home for all your legal needs), I thought it might be good to take a look at the suits and what the likely outcome could be in the coming months.

BILLY CLYDE’s LAWSUIT:

When Billy Clyde hired his Greek dreamboat attorney and filed a case in federal court in Dallas it signaled one thing to me, mainly that after two months of negotiations of a mutually beneficial settlement, Clyde went with the nuclear option. Even though a lawsuit will end up costing him a large amount of money and could lead to the release of information that might make it difficult for him to find a coaching job in the future, Clyde decided it was time to bring the legal thunder. His lawsuit is linked here and is definitely worth your time on a rainy day. While the majority of the Complaint is filled up with beautiful paragraphs describing what a wonderful coach Gillispie has been and how he is an inspiration to young Dr. Pepper lovers everywhere, the meat of it from a legal standpoint is articulated via his claims against the UK Athletics Association. Put simply, he argues three things:

1. Breach of Contract, essentially claiming that he was not paid the 6 million dollars owed to him by the Memorandum of Understanding for an early termination.

2. Fraud, by arguing that UK never really intended to pay him his money and fraudulently got him to agree to a contract it wouldnt pay.

3. Tortious Interference of Contract, which is a fancy way of saying that UK made him terminate his contract with Texas A&M and “lured” him to Kentucky, causing him to ruin the great time he was having in College Station.

As one looks at these three claims, it is clear that two are completely bogus and one is the heart of the issue. Billy’s claim for fraud would be almost impossible to prove, as he would have to show that not only is UK not going to pay him, but it never intended to pay him, a set of facts that only exists in a McCarthy’s induced reality. His tortious interference claim is actually quite clever, but has no real chance of success. While it was likely inserted so as to get the case in Texas (more on that later), it amounts to a claim that by hiring him away from Aggieville, UK interfered with his contract with Texas A&M. While this is undoubtedly true, that in and of itself is not a tortious claim. In order for it to be a claim, you must show that the University did some wrong to interfere and simply offering a job does not qualify. It it were otherwise, EVERY TIME a person took a new job when they were under contract elsewhere, the new employer would be guilty of a tortious interference claim. That simply isnt the case.

Ultimately, the breach of contract claim is where the action is to be found. The question simply is, did the University and Billy Clyde have a working employment contract, and if it did, was it violated by either party? We will examine the arguments in a bit, but suffice to say Billy Clyde has a strong argument here and it is this claim that is the core of the case.

UK’s COUNTERSUIT:

UK’s countersuit (linked here) boils down to the University saying, “hey elected judge in Kentucky with UK fans as your constituents….rule that Clyde didnt have a contract before those fools in Texas can go screwing things up.” This was not the language in the suit verbatum of course, but it is close enough. UK is trying to get a Declaratory Judgment from the court saying no contract existed quickly…but is likely to have little success. They were beaten to the courthouse by Gillispie and it is likely the case that their action was a bit too little, too late. In addition, UK also however makes the point that Clyde sued the wrong entity and should have sued UK instead of the UK Athletics Association. The problem is that UK took the exact opposite position in its lawsuit with Claude Bassett, claiming that UKAA was who should be sued because it pays the checks and that UK was not the primary employer. Either way, it is likely irrelevant, since Clyde would be able to amend his Complaint to name the proper party if the court agreed with UK.

FIGHT ONE: WHERE WILL THE SUIT BE HEARD

Because Billy Clyde began the process in federal court in Texas, that is likely where it will start. UK however hopes it can move the suit to Kentucky. Clyde has to somehow argue that Texas is the appropriate place to determine a lawsuit between the UK basketball coach and the University of Kentucky. To get there, he added the “tortious interference claim”, arguing that he was just minding his poor little business in Texas when evil Kentucky came down there and manipulated his naive self. That claim, which has virtually no likelihood of success, is likely only in the complaint to try and give the Texas court jurisdiction, and will be the basis for his hope to keep the case in Texas.

From what I am told, the day before he filed the case, Billy Clyde changed all his Kentucky addresses to Texas and put his house on the market, all in the hope to establish residency in Texas. I suspect it will not work however. While Billy Clyde doesnt want to see this case in federal court in Lexington, that is where it is likely to end up, with either Judge Jennifer Coffmann or Judge Karen Caldwell (my former boss) as the presiding judge. This agreement was entered into in Kentucky, with Kentucky law governing for a position within Kentucky. UK will argue that the proper venue is thus in Kentucky and thus Clyde’s lawsuit should end up here. The venue fight might be the most important one of the case, and I suspect will be quite extensive.

To the merits:

BILLY CLYDE’s ARGUMENT:

Clyde’s argument is simple: (1) the Memorandum of Understanding operated as a contract and guaranteed him 6 million dollars if terminated and (2) If for some reason there wasnt a contract, both parties acted as if there was a contract for two years, so this “course of performance” should lead the court to enfore the agreement as if it was a contract. There are a couple of problems for Billy however:

1. The MOU says explicitly that it is time limited and that a full agreement must be reached.

2. The Complaint acknowledges that such an agreement was not reached and that the “for cause” provisions were the main reason.

3. Billy Clyde made NUMEROUS personal statements while at UK that there was no contract, often joking (in his annoying smug manner), that it was “in his briefcase” and he would sign it later.

UK’s ARGUMENT:

UK will argue two things. First, it will claim that there never existed a contract between the two parties and that the MOU is not sufficient to require the 6 million dollar payment. Second, it will claim that EVEN IF a contract exists, the University was justified in firing Clyde “for cause”, thus putting into play everything that Billy did while at Kentucky…both good and bad. There are however problems for UK’s argument as well, mainly:

1. If the MOU was not a contract, UK sure acted like it was, enforcing its provisions for two years, including paying Clyde the amount owed to him under the MOU throughout. This gives strong support to the “course of performance” argument.

2. Mitch Barnhart made NUMEROUS public statements when asked about the lack of a contract between Clyde and UK that suggested there was a contract. He even specifically used the word “contract” on a couple of occasions about the MOU saying, “there is a contract” when pressed on why a deal hadnt been reached. This is sure to be used against UK.

3. If the MOU is a contract, it isnt exactly clear that it contains a “for cause” provision, since both sides agree that was what was being negotiated after the hiring. Thus if the court finds a contract, it may be difficult for UK to argue that it was entitled to let Clyde go for cause.

BOTTOM LINE:

So that was long and extensive and dorky, so what does it all mean? Bottom line: on the issue of whether a contract exists, it is a close call and it isnt clear which party will prevail. I think Clyde probably has the better argument, because he can correctly claim that for two years UK acted like a contract existed and paid him as if it existed. That argument is not rock solid (for the reasons showed above), but it is strong enough to likely give him the edge. UK however does have the reasonable argument to make that the mere fact that it explicitly states in the MOU that it is temporary and because Clyde acknowledges that there were still issues to be settled, no agreement exists. This could really go either way, and showcases why this will be an ugly fight.

The problem for Clyde is that by bringing this suit, UK now has free reign to release all of the information about what happened during his tenure. I cant imagine why he would want this. I have called this case a “career kamikaze mission” for just this reason. He may win the suit and then never be able to coach again. If one suspects (as I do) that he was offered about half of his 6 million in settlement, he should have taken it. Now he has a fight with an expensive lawyer, that likely will take place on the University’s home turf and that could release information he wishes would stay secret. How is that a win?

So there you go…one man’s opinion on where we are in the Clyde lawsuit. As we learn more and see how it develops, we will keep you posted. Today watch for the winner of the picture contest, more on the KSR Kids campaign and other stuff….so stay tuned.

BRM
06-02-2009, 12:29 PM
Memphis: No proof ex-player cheated
ESPN.com news services

MEMPHIS, Tenn. -- Memphis was unable to find proof that a former player cheated on his SAT exam in its internal investigation of NCAA allegations against the men's basketball team.

The investigation report, released to The Associated Press and other news outlets Tuesday under a public records request, details Memphis' internal investigation into allegations that a former player allowed a stand-in to take his SAT test and of grade tampering.

Memphis was first notified by the NCAA by e-mail in May 2008, one month after the Tigers lost to Kansas in the national championship game, that star freshman point guard Derrick Rose had an invalidated standardized test score the previous year at Chicago's Simeon High School, multiple sources with direct knowledge of an e-mail told ESPN.com

Most names in the report released Tuesday were redacted by Memphis because of privacy concerns, but an attorney for Rose has acknowledged that Rose cooperated with an investigation of similar allegations while still a student.

Memphis will present its findings to the NCAA Committee on Infractions on Saturday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4224139

dabvu2498
06-02-2009, 12:54 PM
So how did these allegations come to the NCAA's attention? Will we ever know?

Scrap Irony
06-02-2009, 01:02 PM
And if this is indeed the case, will public opinion change from "Calipari is slimy" to "Calipari was wrong"? By all accounts (aside from Forde, who knows a thing or two about obfuscating), Calipari knew nothing about the Rose/SAT debacle. But public opinion doesn't need proof to denigrate nor evidence to sermonize.

In this case, IMO, Pandora's Box has been opened, for good or ill. Calipari will always be seen as guilty, if not caught.

I wonder how, though, he can't get away with it, but Coach K and Roy Williams can? Pitino, too, for that matter. What's the difference in the coaches? K's program has been caught three different times in the past fifteen years or so and Williams' KU program was also saddled with sanctions. Pitino got caught early in his career, much like Calipari, but nothing came of it and he's widely regarded as fairly clean.

How are those coaches (and others) looked over and other villified?

I could see Knight, as there never was, IIRC, a whiff of an NCAA problem on his watch. Same with a select few like him-- Dean Smith, John Thompson, John Wooden-- none had the NCAA sniffing around them ever (though, to be fair, many former UCLA players have confirmed $100 handshakes and other bonuses to play for Wooden's Bruins in the early 70's, among them, Bill Walton).

You could argue the program, but that doesn't wash with Kentucky and Pitino, as UK is among the most penalized in NCAA history. Same thing with IU and Sampson.

WMR
06-02-2009, 04:08 PM
And if this is indeed the case, will public opinion change from "Calipari is slimy" to "Calipari was wrong"? By all accounts (aside from Forde, who knows a thing or two about obfuscating), Calipari knew nothing about the Rose/SAT debacle. But public opinion doesn't need proof to denigrate nor evidence to sermonize.

In this case, IMO, Pandora's Box has been opened, for good or ill. Calipari will always be seen as guilty, if not caught.

I wonder how, though, he can't get away with it, but Coach K and Roy Williams can? Pitino, too, for that matter. What's the difference in the coaches? K's program has been caught three different times in the past fifteen years or so and Williams' KU program was also saddled with sanctions. Pitino got caught early in his career, much like Calipari, but nothing came of it and he's widely regarded as fairly clean.

How are those coaches (and others) looked over and other villified?

I could see Knight, as there never was, IIRC, a whiff of an NCAA problem on his watch. Same with a select few like him-- Dean Smith, John Thompson, John Wooden-- none had the NCAA sniffing around them ever (though, to be fair, many former UCLA players have confirmed $100 handshakes and other bonuses to play for Wooden's Bruins in the early 70's, among them, Bill Walton).

You could argue the program, but that doesn't wash with Kentucky and Pitino, as UK is among the most penalized in NCAA history. Same thing with IU and Sampson.

Calipari didn't "get caught" doing ANYTHING improper at UMASS.

Coach Cal has never been personally implicated in any improprieties.

I'm not going to go into the specific violations by individuals, but the media, particularly idiots like Pat Forde, showed a disturbing amount of hypocritical reporting throughout this "story." But Forde is in bed with Pitino so it's not exactly difficult to figure out, in his case at least.

dabvu2498
06-02-2009, 05:27 PM
Carl Henry says his sons will play for Kansas and that the rumors of the last couple days are bunk.

BRM
06-02-2009, 05:27 PM
Carl Henry says his sons will play for Kansas and that the rumors of the last couple days are bunk.

I'm shocked.

dabvu2498
06-02-2009, 05:30 PM
I'm shocked. Stunned.

BRM
06-02-2009, 05:35 PM
Stunned.

C'mon. You know you believed that rumor from the get-go.

Scrap Irony
06-02-2009, 05:45 PM
Okay, fine, WMR, the NCAA found a member of Calipari's team had signed with an agent without his knowledge. The question still stands. (And I really don't want this turned into a "jealousy" thing.)

WMR
06-02-2009, 05:56 PM
Okay, fine, WMR, the NCAA found a member of Calipari's team had signed with an agent without his knowledge. The question still stands. (And I really don't want this turned into a "jealousy" thing.)

Who's talking jealousy? That doesn't need to be part of this discussion at all. People like--or dislike--schools for a plethora of reasons.

Scrap Irony
06-02-2009, 07:04 PM
Okay, I think you referred to "haters" who "feared" Kentucky's emerging dominance. Still, that's a side issue to the one posted above.

WMR
06-02-2009, 07:18 PM
Okay, I think you referred to "haters" who "feared" Kentucky's emerging dominance. Still, that's a side issue to the one posted above.

There is certainly the hater contingent. That's obvious. It's only a story if you can somehow tie it to John Calipari or Kentucky. Otherwise, nobody cares.

That's not really germane to the issue being discussed, however.

WMR
06-02-2009, 07:21 PM
Coach Cal is leaving for China on Wednesday. He says that his itinerary is absolutely jam packed. That would be cool to have a stud Chinese player attend Kentucky. I'm sure they've got some sick prospects who perhaps aren't quite ready for the NBA. Plus this would be massive positive PR for China.

BRM
06-03-2009, 09:47 AM
Dozier went to Memphis, not Georgia, because of SAT flap
June 2, 2009
By Gary Parrish
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

On the same day that the Memphis released its response to NCAA allegations that Derrick Rose had someone take his SAT for him, sources told CBSSports.com that Rose's former teammate, Robert Dozier, only played for the Tigers because Georgia declined to enroll the in-state product over concerns that he might've similarly had someone take his SAT.

According to a source, Dozier took the SAT once before trying to enroll at Georgia, but that score was flagged after the school received a tip that the score might be "fishy." At the time, Georgia was still dealing with charges of academic fraud under Jim Harrick and determined to be extra careful with everything. So the school asked Dozier to take the SAT again, and a source with knowledge of the situation told CBSSports.com that the second score was "not enough to resolve the issue." Put another way, Georgia officials were not properly convinced the first test and second test were taken by the same person, which led to the end of Dozier's time as a Georgia recruit in August 2004.

Dozier subsequently enrolled at Laurinburg Prep along with four other future Tigers (Antonio Anderson, Shawne Williams, Kareem Cooper and Roburt Sallie). About a month later, he committed to Memphis for a second time -- Dozier was actually committed to Memphis before he ever signed with Georgia -- and eventually helped the Tigers make the 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 NCAA tournaments under John Calipari while becoming the winningest Division I men's basketball player in history (along with Anderson and Chance McGrady).

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11813089

WVRed
06-03-2009, 10:07 AM
Coach Cal is leaving for China on Wednesday. He says that his itinerary is absolutely jam packed. That would be cool to have a stud Chinese player attend Kentucky. I'm sure they've got some sick prospects who perhaps aren't quite ready for the NBA. Plus this would be massive positive PR for China.

One of them I saw in an article on Yahoo earlier this week is about 7'9.

It's going to be hard to get anybody exceptionally skilled because of the NBA.

dabvu2498
06-03-2009, 10:19 AM
One of them I saw in an article on Yahoo earlier this week is about 7'9. It's going to be hard to get anybody exceptionally skilled because of the NBA. Have you guys seen their national team play in the Olympics or FIBA tournaments? They have a way to go in the talent department. Yao being the obvious exception. There were maybe 2 other guys on their squad that might equate to high d1 level. Maybe.

Hoosier Red
06-03-2009, 11:13 AM
I actually met a player from the Chinese Basketball Association when I was over there and I'm not sure I couldn't have taken him one on one.

dabvu2498
06-03-2009, 11:48 AM
I actually met a player from the Chinese Basketball Association when I was over there and I'm not sure I couldn't have taken him one on one. A buddy of mine played against some of those teams a couple years ago when he was over there with a touring group of ABA players. Said the quality of play was around d3 level. I am not dissing Cal's trip AT ALL, but don't be expecting any real help from China anytime soon.

WMR
06-03-2009, 01:27 PM
A buddy of mine played against some of those teams a couple years ago when he was over there with a touring group of ABA players. Said the quality of play was around d3 level. I am not dissing Cal's trip AT ALL, but don't be expecting any real help from China anytime soon.

Yeah I don't really know anything about Chinese basketball...

I think Cal's first "goal" is to get a Chinese coach to come and spend some time with the program and observe how things are done.

joshnky
06-03-2009, 01:59 PM
One of them I saw in an article on Yahoo earlier this week is about 7'9.

It's going to be hard to get anybody exceptionally skilled because of the NBA.

Didn't Tubby try this with the assembly line of foreign seven footers? Didn't seem to work out too well.

WVRed
06-03-2009, 02:16 PM
Didn't Tubby try this with the assembly line of foreign seven footers? Didn't seem to work out too well.

Foreign players in general didn't work out well for Tubby.

Sheray Thomas, Lukasz Orbzut, and Bernard Cote may be the three biggest wastes of scholarships on players outside of the US.

cumberlandreds
06-03-2009, 02:23 PM
Foreign players in general didn't work out well for Tubby.

Sheray Thomas, Lukasz Orbzut, and Bernard Cote may be the three biggest wastes of scholarships on players outside of the US.

Don't forget Mike Williams via England. He was at best a project that would have never played much at all.

dabvu2498
06-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Don't forget Mike Williams via England. He was at best a project that would have never played much at all. And Shagari! Can't forget him! In fact, I can't think of any big time programs who have had success with foreign players in the past few years. I am sure you guys will point out a few. Samuels from Jamaica is the one that comes to mind.

BRM
06-03-2009, 03:54 PM
And Shagari! Can't forget him! In fact, I can't think of any big time programs who have had success with foreign players in the past few years. I am sure you guys will point out a few. Samuels from Jamaica is the one that comes to mind.

Utah and Vandy don't count as big time programs, huh?

dabvu2498
06-03-2009, 04:05 PM
Utah and Vandy don't count as big time programs, huh? Not exactly. Forgot about Utah. About 5 years ago Hawaii had like 8 foreign players from 5 or 6 different countries. Suton from Mich. St. is another. But a lot of those dudes are coming to the states for at least one year of high school or prep school.

BRM
06-03-2009, 04:30 PM
Not exactly. Forgot about Utah. About 5 years ago Hawaii had like 8 foreign players from 5 or 6 different countries. Suton from Mich. St. is another. But a lot of those dudes are coming to the states for at least one year of high school or prep school.

True. Most of them play at least year here before going to college.

WVRed
06-03-2009, 04:54 PM
And Shagari! Can't forget him! In fact, I can't think of any big time programs who have had success with foreign players in the past few years. I am sure you guys will point out a few. Samuels from Jamaica is the one that comes to mind.

I thought Shagari was from the Bronx.

WMR
06-03-2009, 04:57 PM
Shagari is from NYC and was born an American citizen.

WMR
06-03-2009, 05:19 PM
BLUE TEAM
Wall
Hood
Dodson
Patterson
Orton

WHITE TEAM
Bledsoe
Meeks
Miller
Pilgrim
Cousins

Who ya got? :D

dabvu2498
06-03-2009, 06:04 PM
Shagari is from NYC and was born an American citizen. I knew he went to hs in NYC but assumed he was non native. Learn something new every day.

dabvu2498
06-03-2009, 06:10 PM
BLUE TEAM Wall Hood Dodson Patterson Orton WHITE TEAM Bledsoe Meeks Miller Pilgrim Cousins Who ya got? :D 7 dudes on that list who most of us have never seen play. I would hold off on predicting that game.

jmac
06-04-2009, 06:56 PM
WHAS radio announced today that Landon Sloan "officially" said he is going to Morehead. Best of luck to Landon. Seemed like a good kid who may get some minutes there.
Also, they said at that NBA scout thing where they do all the exact #'s such as height and vertical jump etc, Jodie Meeks actual height with no shoes on : 6'3.

Added note: player with best vertical jump- Griffin.

WVRed
06-04-2009, 11:01 PM
WHAS radio announced today that Landon Sloan "officially" said he is going to Morehead. Best of luck to Landon. Seemed like a good kid who may get some minutes there.
Also, they said at that NBA scout thing where they do all the exact #'s such as height and vertical jump etc, Jodie Meeks actual height with no shoes on : 6'3.

Added note: player with best vertical jump- Griffin.

I read 6'4.

Slone will definitely be a major contributor to Donnie Tyndall's team at MSU. I hope he gets a waiver and can suit up against his former team. Hopefully the Rupp crowd gives him a nice ovation.

Blake Griffin is definitely the only for sure talent in this years draft. Ricky Rubio may be the second, but everybody else has major question marks.

cumberlandreds
06-05-2009, 09:07 AM
I read 6'4.

Slone will definitely be a major contributor to Donnie Tyndall's team at MSU. I hope he gets a waiver and can suit up against his former team. Hopefully the Rupp crowd gives him a nice ovation.

Blake Griffin is definitely the only for sure talent in this years draft. Ricky Rubio may be the second, but everybody else has major question marks.

In Tipton's column about Slone he mentioned that Morehead is contracted to open with UK for the next three seasons. If that's true then Slone will get plenty of chances against UK. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a couple of really good games against them too.

WMR
06-05-2009, 11:57 AM
Meeks is definitely 6'3". That's the report from the combine, and they don't mess up those kind of measurements... Meeks also reportedly had the 2nd shortest wingspan of all players at the combine! That's not good.

New Fever
06-06-2009, 07:48 PM
Will Barton #7 prospect in 2010 class commits to Memphis.


http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/05/highly-recruited-brothers-commit-tigers/?partner=RSS

WVRed
06-06-2009, 10:54 PM
Will Barton #7 prospect in 2010 class commits to Memphis.


http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/05/highly-recruited-brothers-commit-tigers/?partner=RSS

Wow, I had read that he would likely be a lock for UK. Kudos to Pastner for selling him on the idea of playing with his brother.

On a somewhat related note, I was in Cincinnati for the game last night. Since Parkersburg is pretty limited on UK apparel, I went to the Kentucky Korner in the Florence Mall and bought a Cal T-shirt. There was an older man and I am assuming was his grandson in the store who was talking non-stop about Cal and how he did Memphis. When he left I went up to check out and asked the person running the register if he was from Memphis and his reaction was "Oh yeah, he wasn't too happy about us taking their coach".

WMR
06-06-2009, 11:02 PM
Yeah what was Cal thinking not staying at Conference-USA Memphis until the day he died. :rolleyes: They should thank God every day that he stayed there nine years.

WMR
06-10-2009, 11:40 AM
CALIPARI BEING TREATED UNFAIRLY
By Dick Vitale

I am tired of the John Calipari bashing.

It seems like there are columns and radio talk show hosts firing away against the new Kentucky coach because of the NCAA's investigation into his former school, Memphis.

For those bashing the coach, take a break! How guilty is this guy? Do you really think he went out of his way to make sure someone took an SAT for Derrick Rose? Do you think he made sure an agent laid cash on Marcus Camby at Massachusetts?

This guy has been bashed and bashed, and in every case he has been cleared of involvement by NCAA investigators. Isn't that enough?

The answer is no for those that have a personal agenda. I feel there are some envious people, jealous of his success. Remember, he did not come up in a pedigree situation.

When you are talking about Calipari's former employers, Massachusetts and Memphis, he paid his dues and busted his butt. He worked so hard, playing games at all hours to get exposure for his programs.

Let's face reality ... they did not have the ammunition that Kentucky has ... big blue is one of the Rolls Royce programs in America. Just look at their practice facility; it is like a Taj Mahal. I love the passion of those fans in bluegrass country!

There is nobody else that could have done the job that he did with the Minutemen. Just look at the program before he arrived at Curry Hicks Cage. He was a Frank Lloyd Wright, an architect who build a program into prominence. His intensity, emotion, passion and ability to recruit stand out. He communicates exceptionally well with the modern day athlete.

Calipari has that salesmanship about him. He is one of the few coaches who can handle the pressure of that environment in Lexington. A guy like Rick Pitino did, and he could have won three championships in a row with a little break. Pitino is a future Hall of Famer who would admit now that he should never have left Kentucky for the NBA.

Calipari, like Pitino, has that magical personality to sell the Wildcat program. Unfortunately he has dealt with other issues prior to his first game in Lexington. It has already been a turbulent pre-season as he prepares for the 2009-10 campaign, and the bashers have had a field day.

I understand that coaches have to be accountable for the actions he is involved in. In this instance, he was not involved.

Enough is enough.

Let's give the guy some due. I know there are people who will scream if the NCAA infractions committee says Memphis has to take down that Final Four banner because of the Rose situation. People will say it is Calipari's fault.

The coach is guilty of one thing ... convincing talented players to perform at the schools he represents. These are players other people would have died to have.

I know I am going off, but I have been reading so many articles by people taking shots. I don't feel they are fair.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/dickvitale/news/story?id=4246114

BRM
06-10-2009, 11:49 AM
So you guys like Dickie V now?

WMR
06-10-2009, 11:51 AM
So you guys like Dickie V now?

I like the article.

jmac
06-10-2009, 11:53 AM
CALIPARI BEING TREATED UNFAIRLY
By Dick Vitale

I am tired of the John Calipari bashing.

It seems like there are columns and radio talk show hosts firing away against the new Kentucky coach because of the NCAA's investigation into his former school, Memphis.

For those bashing the coach, take a break! How guilty is this guy? Do you really think he went out of his way to make sure someone took an SAT for Derrick Rose? Do you think he made sure an agent laid cash on Marcus Camby at Massachusetts?

This guy has been bashed and bashed, and in every case he has been cleared of involvement by NCAA investigators. Isn't that enough?

The answer is no for those that have a personal agenda. I feel there are some envious people, jealous of his success. Remember, he did not come up in a pedigree situation.

When you are talking about Calipari's former employers, Massachusetts and Memphis, he paid his dues and busted his butt. He worked so hard, playing games at all hours to get exposure for his programs.

Let's face reality ... they did not have the ammunition that Kentucky has ... big blue is one of the Rolls Royce programs in America. Just look at their practice facility; it is like a Taj Mahal. I love the passion of those fans in bluegrass country!

There is nobody else that could have done the job that he did with the Minutemen. Just look at the program before he arrived at Curry Hicks Cage. He was a Frank Lloyd Wright, an architect who build a program into prominence. His intensity, emotion, passion and ability to recruit stand out. He communicates exceptionally well with the modern day athlete.

Calipari has that salesmanship about him. He is one of the few coaches who can handle the pressure of that environment in Lexington. A guy like Rick Pitino did, and he could have won three championships in a row with a little break. Pitino is a future Hall of Famer who would admit now that he should never have left Kentucky for the NBA.

Calipari, like Pitino, has that magical personality to sell the Wildcat program. Unfortunately he has dealt with other issues prior to his first game in Lexington. It has already been a turbulent pre-season as he prepares for the 2009-10 campaign, and the bashers have had a field day.

I understand that coaches have to be accountable for the actions he is involved in. In this instance, he was not involved.

Enough is enough.

Let's give the guy some due. I know there are people who will scream if the NCAA infractions committee says Memphis has to take down that Final Four banner because of the Rose situation. People will say it is Calipari's fault.

The coach is guilty of one thing ... convincing talented players to perform at the schools he represents. These are players other people would have died to have.

I know I am going off, but I have been reading so many articles by people taking shots. I don't feel they are fair.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/dickvitale/news/story?id=4246114

He needs to put at top :
Attention Pat Forde :D

BRM
06-10-2009, 11:53 AM
So he's cool when he praises Calipari but a dolt when he praises Coach K.

WMR
06-10-2009, 11:56 AM
So he's cool when he praises Calipari but a dolt when he praises Coach K.

Huh? I like him calling out his supposed "colleagues" for dirty journalism. I think Dicky V is annoying at times, but I'm not one who thinks he loves one school more than another. He's no Billy PACCker.

WMR
06-10-2009, 11:56 AM
He needs to put at top :
Attention Pat Forde :D

I wonder how many copies of this article Pat has had sent to his email address? :D

BRM
06-10-2009, 11:57 AM
Huh? I like him calling out his supposed "colleagues" for dirty journalism. I think Dicky V is annoying at times, but I'm not one who thinks he loves one school more than another. He's no Billy PACCker.

Just screwing with you, bud. ;)

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 12:02 PM
If UK goes to the 2010 Final 4, at what point will you feel secure that the banner doesn't have to come down?

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:04 PM
If UK goes to the 2010 Final 4, at what point will you feel secure that the banner doesn't have to come down?

The moment it touches the rafters. UK's compliance office doesn't play around. Cal isn't going to help/assist any player in cheating the system. UK doesn't need to play around the margins like "smaller" basketball schools... they are in the same class as Kansas and UNC in this regard.

BRM
06-10-2009, 12:04 PM
If UK goes to the 2010 Final 4, at what point will you feel secure that the banner doesn't have to come down?

Calipari has never been hit with an NCAA violation. You should have nothing to worry about.

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:08 PM
Maybe from this point onward Cal can sit with all of the ESPN Top 100 as they go through their final year of high school. He can sit with them as they take the SAT, walk them home each day after school, and tuck each one of them in at night.

WVRed
06-10-2009, 12:11 PM
Huh? I like him calling out his supposed "colleagues" for dirty journalism. I think Dicky V is annoying at times, but I'm not one who thinks he loves one school more than another. He's no Billy PACCker.

Dickie V has his favorites, and John Calipari is one of them. That and with his employers contract agreement with the SEC, there will be nothing but praise coming from him.

Tubby Smith was one as well, and Vitale is still in UK lore for his comments made after Tubby took the Minnesota job.

That and Dick Vitale can call a game and talk about anything and everything EXCEPT the game he is actually being paid to call.

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:13 PM
The network thing doesn't really hold water because there are several "journalists"/talking heads over at ESPN who are on a crusade against Cal and UK by association.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 12:19 PM
The moment it touches the rafters. UK's compliance office doesn't play around. Cal isn't going to help/assist any player in cheating the system. UK doesn't need to play around the margins like "smaller" basketball schools... they are in the same class as Kansas and UNC in this regard. If Umass had beaten UK in 96, I guarantee Kentucky fans would think he was a "cheater." Play around the margins? Like recruiting Derrick Rose?

BRM
06-10-2009, 12:21 PM
Play around the margins? Like recruiting Derrick Rose?

Robert Dozier?

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:25 PM
If Umass had beaten UK in 96, I guarantee Kentucky fans would think he was a "cheater." Play around the margins? Like recruiting Derrick Rose?

I'm sure Kevin Stallings would have never let Derrick Rose play at his school if he met the minimum academic standards at Vandy. :laugh:

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:26 PM
Robert Dozier?

I'm amazed a Hoosier fan would have the audacity to type anything at all. MY school isn't the one on probation. :D

BRM
06-10-2009, 12:30 PM
I'm amazed a Hoosier fan would have the audacity to type anything at all. MY school isn't the one on probation. :D

I have zero worries about the future with Tom Crean in charge. Zero.

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:32 PM
I have zero worries about the future with Tom Crean in charge. Zero.

I'm sure Tom Crean wouldn't have taken Derrick Rose at Marquette. WHOOPS!! Haha, does Crean sit with recruits while they take standardized tests? Might want to get on that. Hard to have "zero worries" otherwise.

BRM
06-10-2009, 12:33 PM
I'm sure Tom Crean wouldn't have taken Derrick Rose at Marquette. WHOOPS!! Haha, does Crean sit with recruits while they take standardized tests? Might want to get on that. Hard to have "zero worries" otherwise.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Ask the average hoops fan which coach is most likely to land his program in hot water, Crean or Cal. I have a pretty good idea who would be the landslide winner in that one.

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:35 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about. Ask the average hoops fan which coach is most likely to land his program in hot water, Crean or Cal. I have a pretty good idea who would be the landslide winner in that one.

Isn't it obvious? Crean easily could have committed the same infraction as Calipari. Recruiting a kid who ends up having questions about his test scores. Just like it could happen to Stallings, Roy Williams, Bill Self, the holy Tom Crean or any other coach in America.

I could care less what the average hoop fans thinks.

BRM
06-10-2009, 12:36 PM
Isn't it obvious? Crean easily could have committed the same infraction as Calipari. Recruiting a kid who ends up having questions about his test scores.

I could care less what the average hoop fans thinks.

Ah, gotcha.

Sure you do. You wouldn't be yelling at everyone so much if you didn't care. ;)

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:38 PM
Ah, gotcha.

Sure you do. You wouldn't be yelling at everyone so much if you didn't care. ;)

LOL. I'M NOT TYPING IN ALL CAPS AM I?? THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW WHEN I'M YELLING. :D

The Holy Tom Crean. Someone with photoshop skills needs to get on a Jesus inspired Tom Crean photo. :D Definitely need a halo to properly convey his angelical qualities.

BRM
06-10-2009, 12:40 PM
LOL. I'M NOT TYPING IN ALL CAPS AM I?? THAT'S HOW YOU KNOW WHEN I'M YELLING. :D

The Holy Tom Crean. Someone with photoshop skills needs to get on a Jesus inspired Tom Crean photo. :D Definitely need a halo.

I have been waiting for you guys to develop one like that of your boy Cal. You'd think the dude walked on water by reading these threads.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 12:41 PM
I'm amazed a Hoosier fan would have the audacity to type anything at all. MY school isn't the one on probation. :D Eric Manuel. Look, I hope Cal does great, but I don't want to go through another Eric Manuel or what Memphis is going through right now.

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:41 PM
I have been waiting for you guys to develop one like that of your boy Cal. You'd think the dude walked on water by reading these threads.

Oh come on now, the man-love you Hoosiers have for Crean is easily on the same level as Cal and UK. He's got approval ratings an African Dictator would envy. :D

BRM
06-10-2009, 12:42 PM
Oh come on now, the man-love you Hoosiers have for Crean is easily on the same level as Cal and UK. He's got approval ratings an African Dictator would envy. :D

Can't argue with that. I do have to admit that I worship at the altar of Coach Crean.

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:43 PM
Eric Manuel. Look, I hope Cal does great, but I don't want to go through another Eric Manuel or what Memphis is going through right now.

Me either!!!

UK and Sandy Bell just kicked Joe Bologna to the curb for 3 years for giving players some free meals and self-reported to the NCAA ... they won't put up with any foolishness and they are very stringent in keeping control of the program. That's why I feel good.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 12:51 PM
Me either!!! So Cal shouldn't have recruited Rose to Memphis? I am confused.

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:53 PM
So Cal shouldn't have recruited Rose to Memphis? I am confused.

How could you have gotten that out of what I said?

WMR
06-10-2009, 12:54 PM
Isn't it obvious? Crean easily could have committed the same infraction as Calipari. Recruiting a kid who ends up having questions about his test scores. Just like it could happen to Stallings, Roy Williams, Bill Self, the holy Tom Crean or any other coach in America.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 12:59 PM
How could you have gotten that out of what I said? You said you didn't want to go through what Memphis was going through.

WVRed
06-10-2009, 02:09 PM
You said you didn't want to go through what Memphis was going through.

Except what Memphis is going through is ultimately a result of their compliance departments, not because of their former head coach.

Cal is an excellent salesman and spokesperson for whichever University he is at. However, there are some things that happen that are out of the coaches control. It would be entirely possible that an athletic program goes on probation and the coach has nothing to do with it. If the compliance department is not doing their job, it is completely out of control of the coach.

WMR
06-10-2009, 02:16 PM
Hearing some somewhat shocking news on who one of the transfers from Kentucky will be.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 02:22 PM
Except what Memphis is going through is ultimately a result of their compliance departments, not because of their former head coach. Cal is an excellent salesman and spokesperson for whichever University he is at. However, there are some things that happen that are out of the coaches control. It would be entirely possible that an athletic program goes on probation and the coach has nothing to do with it. If the compliance department is not doing their job, it is completely out of control of the coach. Except that the coach is the one who presents that player to the compliance department.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 04:34 PM
So... Pilgrim and Galloway will be leaving, allegedly. The Great Pilgrim has turned into the Great Pumpkin! I am somewhat surprised as I don't think Galloway will be able to go to another d1 institution. And Pilgrim will have to sit out another year. Of course it is likely not their choice to leave.

BRM
06-10-2009, 04:51 PM
Was Pilgrim a JUCO transfer?

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 04:59 PM
Was Pilgrim a JUCO transfer? Nope. D1 transfer from Hampton.

WMR
06-10-2009, 05:26 PM
Pilgrim can go back to Hampton without waiting at all. They have a new coaching staff there and he would be the best player in the league. He could also go to UC and almost definitely get a hardship waiver to retain his 2 years of eligibility.

Galloway will qualify for such a waiver as well.

jmac
06-10-2009, 06:03 PM
I have heard reports Galloway wasnt catching on to the dribble drive very well. What about Pilgrim ? Was he not a good fit for the system ?

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 07:14 PM
Pilgrim can go back to Hampton without waiting at all. They have a new coaching staff there and he would be the best player in the league. He could also go to UC and almost definitely get a hardship waiver to retain his 2 years of eligibility. Galloway will qualify for such a waiver as well. Pilgrim should have 3 years left. He only played 1 at Hampton. Galloway only has one year left. I am guessing most d1 schools wouldn't risk him maybe not getting a waiver for 1 year of his services. I am betting he is at a d2 or naia next year. Ditto Pilgrim, honestly.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 07:39 PM
Pilgrim may also be wise to try to find someone to pay him to play at this point.

WMR
06-10-2009, 07:55 PM
Pilgrim lost a year of eligibility when he transferred.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 08:11 PM
Pilgrim lost a year of eligibility when he transferred. How so?

joshnky
06-10-2009, 08:38 PM
Funny, I remember bringing up the rumor that Pilgrim might transfer a month ago and WMR said:


Pilgrim is definitely not transferring.

He is perfect for the DDMO.

http://www.truebluekentucky.com/inde...-anywhere.html

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone folks feel is "untouchable" end up transferring.

;)

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 08:44 PM
Funny, I remember bringing up the rumor that Pilgrim might transfer a month ago and WMR said: ;) That link no longer works! How strange! ;)

joshnky
06-10-2009, 08:52 PM
That link no longer works! How strange! ;)

I hope his certainty regarding the UK compliance department and Calipari is more certain than his certainty that Pilgrim wouldn't transfer. ;)

WMR
06-10-2009, 09:59 PM
I still think he would be perfect for the DDMO. He'll play in the NBA, if that's any consolation.

dabvu2498
06-10-2009, 10:16 PM
I still think he would be perfect for the DDMO. He'll play in the NBA, if that's any consolation. Hey. How did Pumpkin lose a year by transferring?

WVRed
06-10-2009, 10:46 PM
Also should note, Liggins will be back but on a short leash.

UKredsFAN03
06-11-2009, 01:18 AM
Also should note, Liggins will be back but on a short leash.

Oh well, it isn't like he will see much court anyways with Wall and Bledsoe in front of him.

WVRed
06-11-2009, 08:10 AM
Oh well, it isn't like he will see much court anyways with Wall and Bledsoe in front of him.

I disagree. Liggins has the talent to be successful, it is just a matter of whether or not he can keep his head in the game. He is also a perfect fit of the DDM offense and could run as a point forward aka Antonio Anderson.

WVRed
06-11-2009, 08:10 AM
PS: Might want to check out TBK and KSR. Nothing better than a nerd fight between Matt Jones and Marc Maggard.

WMR
06-11-2009, 09:54 AM
Liggins will be a wing in Cal's offense. He's no longer needed as a point at all with Bledsoe and Wall in the fold. Our wing is definitely where we are the "weakest" although that term is relative with this squad of players.

BRM
06-11-2009, 02:10 PM
Everyone's favorite player, Tyler Smith, is supposed to announce he's returning to UT next year. Per Jeff Goodman at Fox Sports.

Beisner at KSR reports that Goodman also expects Meeks to return to UK, FWIW.

WVRed
06-13-2009, 08:32 PM
Liggins will be a wing in Cal's offense. He's no longer needed as a point at all with Bledsoe and Wall in the fold. Our wing is definitely where we are the "weakest" although that term is relative with this squad of players.

I don't see the wing being much of a weakness at all.

Just some of the players we could run out:

Darius Miller: expected to explode in this offense.

Jon Hood: Excellent shooting ability but still a freshman

Darnell Dodson: 6'8 deep threat.

Ramon Harris: Likely to not see much playing time, but his defensive presence could make him valuable.

DeAndre Liggins: IF he ever puts it together, could play the Antonio Anderson role alongside John Wall (Derrick Rose) and Jodie Meeks (CDR)

WVRed
06-13-2009, 09:25 PM
Also should note that Jodie Meeks is likely going to be back. He is supposedly telling teams he would be more open to playing in Europe as opposed to the D-League, which is scaring off teams in the second round.

Scrap Irony
06-13-2009, 09:33 PM
They've got to prove it at the wing first. Hoodson is a freshman, Dodson might as well be, Harris can't hit a layup and Liggins may be have the worst basketball IQ in the SEC. And Miller is the winner of the Most Outstanding Practice Player. Previous winners include Josh Carrier, Matt Pilgrim, and Andre Riddick.

Meeks, if he returns, is the best bet at wing.

WMR
06-13-2009, 09:47 PM
I don't see the wing being much of a weakness at all.

Just some of the players we could run out:

Darius Miller: expected to explode in this offense.

Jon Hood: Excellent shooting ability but still a freshman

Darnell Dodson: 6'8 deep threat.

Ramon Harris: Likely to not see much playing time, but his defensive presence could make him valuable.

DeAndre Liggins: IF he ever puts it together, could play the Antonio Anderson role alongside John Wall (Derrick Rose) and Jodie Meeks (CDR)

That's the point, there's a lot of 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in there... Don't be surprised if these options struggling at some point is a pre-cursor to even more of Bledsoe and Wall used in tandem.

WMR
06-13-2009, 09:48 PM
Wall
Bledsoe
Meeks
Cousins
Patterson

...

That could be a devastating lineup.

Keep in mind, some people have said they fully expect John Wall to LEAD Kentucky in scoring... I think many people don't see John as a big-time scorer at UK but he may just prove them wrong.

WVRed
06-13-2009, 09:49 PM
That's the point, there's a lot of 'what ifs' and 'maybes' in there... Don't be surprised if these options struggling at some point is a pre-cursor to even more of Bledsoe and Wall used in tandem.

But for every "what if" and "maybe", each player has a certain strength that could be exploited at some point in the game. We have the coach who can make it work now as well.

WMR
06-13-2009, 09:52 PM
But for every "what if" and "maybe", each player has a certain strength that could be exploited at some point in the game. We have the coach who can make it work now as well.

But they've got to do it. That's been my point all along. Our wings are definitely where we have the biggest question marks. The answers could be amazing, and I think we've got some options that are going to be spectacular there, but, again, they've gotta show it because, as a group, they're more or less greenhorns.

(which makes Meeks coming back very, very important)

jmac
06-13-2009, 09:52 PM
What is the date Meeks has to decide by ?

WMR
06-13-2009, 09:53 PM
What is the date Meeks has to decide by ?

Monday, the 15th, I believe.

jmac
06-13-2009, 09:55 PM
Monday, the 15th, I believe.
Ah...it's almost time then ! :thumbup:

cumberlandreds
06-15-2009, 07:22 AM
Ah...it's almost time then ! :thumbup:

By 5 PM today we will know something. That's the deadline to pull his name out.

mash3024
06-15-2009, 11:52 AM
According to Coach Cal's twitter, Meeks is staying in the draft.

UKCoachCalipari: Jodie called..He's keeping his name in the draft. He's excited and I'm excited for him. I wish I got the chance to coach him.

dabvu2498
06-15-2009, 12:05 PM
Can't say I am surprised. You could tell that is where his heart was leading him. Best of luck to him.

joshnky
06-15-2009, 12:05 PM
According to Coach Cal's twitter, Meeks is staying in the draft.

So... do they have an extra scholarship now?

joshnky
06-15-2009, 12:06 PM
Can't say I am surprised. You could tell that is where his heart was leading him. Best of luck to him.

The rumor was that he had elevated his stock during the workouts and some teams were beginning to look at him at the end of the first round.

dabvu2498
06-15-2009, 12:08 PM
So... do they have an extra scholarship now? Yup. Sure do.

dabvu2498
06-15-2009, 12:13 PM
The rumor was that he had elevated his stock during the workouts and some teams were beginning to look at him at the end of the first round. I just heard a similar report on Luke Harangody. Hopefully there is a trend toward more proven college guys getting a legit shot at roster spots in the league.

cumberlandreds
06-15-2009, 01:23 PM
I can't help but thinking that playing for a third coach in four years had a lot to do with his decision. That's pretty tough to do. Not a surprise decision given what he was saying the past few weeks. I think he was wanting out and was just trying to find a team that would give him just a modicum of hope to be drafted in the first round.

WMR
06-15-2009, 01:48 PM
I think he's making the wrong decision, but I sincerely hope it works out well for him and his family.

If he doesn't get drafted he could still return to UK. I don't think he'll go back to UK, but the chances of him going undrafted are unfortunately probably better than him getting taken in the first round.

dabvu2498
06-15-2009, 02:35 PM
I think he's making the wrong decision, but I sincerely hope it works out well for him and his family. If he doesn't get drafted he could still return to UK. I don't think he'll go back to UK, but the chances of him going undrafted are unfortunately probably better than him getting taken in the first round. I think he is as good an NBA prospect this year as he would have been next year. And a year younger and in a weaker and thinner draft pool. Playing his senior season wouldn't have made him 6-6. Ane he will get drafted. Making a roster? It would have to be just the right team with the right players and coach.

TeamSelig
06-15-2009, 02:50 PM
Plus, with next years roster, there is no way he scores that many PPG, etc.

Scrap Irony
06-15-2009, 05:53 PM
If he doesn't get drafted he could still return to UK.

No, he can't. That loophole (and the Magic Fax that went along with it) is closed.

This probably makes Kentucky a top 15 team, as there are serious questions about two positions, rather than one.

Meanwhile, Wetern Kentuckt could be a pre-season Top 20 team for the first time since the earlt 70's. Lots of talent on the Hill.

WMR
06-15-2009, 09:44 PM
No, he can't. That loophole (and the Magic Fax that went along with it) is closed.

This probably makes Kentucky a top 15 team, as there are serious questions about two positions, rather than one.

Meanwhile, Wetern Kentuckt could be a pre-season Top 20 team for the first time since the earlt 70's. Lots of talent on the Hill.

You're wrong. If he goes undrafted and doesn't hire an agent he retains his status as an amateur.

WVRed
06-15-2009, 10:27 PM
No, he can't. That loophole (and the Magic Fax that went along with it) is closed.

This probably makes Kentucky a top 15 team, as there are serious questions about two positions, rather than one.

Meanwhile, Wetern Kentuckt could be a pre-season Top 20 team for the first time since the earlt 70's. Lots of talent on the Hill.

It's basically the Randolph Morris rule. If Meeks doesn't follow through and hire an agent, and then goes undrafted, he would be able to return to UK. The question is, would he have to sit out half the season?

That being said, unlike WMR, I am somewhat mixed on this for a number of reasons:

1a. For Jodie's sake, this is the weakest NBA draft in recent memory. Blake Griffin is the only player in this draft that may be starworthy. I do like Tyreke Evans and DeMar DeRozan, but both are extremely raw from a talent standpoint. I'm starting to think Rubio may be all Olympic hype.

1b. Compare this years draft to next years. John Wall, Xavier Henry, and Avery Bradley will likely headline next years draft class as freshman, with Willie Warren a likely other option. All guards. Even if Jodie improved his ballhandling and passing, the NBA places such an emphasis on youth that he would likely be bypassed in favor of younger talent. Not to mention that he is also undersized for a SG/SF at 6'3. I would have liked to have seen Cal working with him two years ago and he likely would have been made into a PG.

2a. There are two things I see working against Jodie in the draft. One is that there will be an abundance of teams drafting the rights to foreign players in order to retain those rights and not use the pick on a college player in order to save money. The economy is going to be a factor as is next years FA class, when LeBron, Carmelo, and Bosh hit the market. Teams who are gearing up for the LeBron sweepstakes are going to likely pass on the draft in order to free up cap room. Foreign players late in the first could push Jodie to the second round, where....

2b. Jodie has supposedly told teams that he would be more apt to playing in Europe as opposed to the D-League. If that happens to be the case, he could slide out of the second round entirely. Why would you want to draft someone who would rather go overseas than play for your "farm team" and you would lose his rights? I could see a team likely draft him to call his bluff, but it would likely be a team with an abundance of picks.

I've always said that Jodie was one of the best streak shooters in the country last season. However, the streak works both ways. If he is hot, ask anybody in Knoxville how hot he can be. However, there were games that when Jodie tried to take over and he didn't have his shot working that he became a major liability and ultimately cost the Cats. As much as people want to blame Gillispie, Meeks tried to take over games last season with little success.

That is why I am excited that this is Patrick's team now. He will be the unquestioned leader on the floor and has flourished in that role of late. This team is still going to be a top 5 or top 10 team. There really isn't a team with the frontcourt depth that Kentucky has and John Wall will solidify a major weakness from last season. We just have to replace Meeks scoring presence and I believe we will get that from Darius Miller.

George Foster
06-16-2009, 12:38 AM
Meeks not on this team has really hurt next years offense. We don't have a outside shooter that is consistant. Miller will have to really, really step it up next season.

With no outside threat, the defense will back up 5 feet, to take away the driving ability of Wall and Bledsoe, who are both point guards. I don't see how you can start 2 guys that have been point guards their entire high school career.

With the defense backing up and daring Wall and or Bledsoe to shoot, it also clogs up the inside and limits Patterson and Cousins "touches, because Wall and or Bledsoe can't drive and dish as well.

With the game on the line, on the road in the SEC, we will miss Meeks.

WVRed
06-16-2009, 07:13 AM
Meeks not on this team has really hurt next years offense. We don't have a outside shooter that is consistant. Miller will have to really, really step it up next season.

With no outside threat, the defense will back up 5 feet, to take away the driving ability of Wall and Bledsoe, who are both point guards. I don't see how you can start 2 guys that have been point guards their entire high school career.

With the defense backing up and daring Wall and or Bledsoe to shoot, it also clogs up the inside and limits Patterson and Cousins "touches, because Wall and or Bledsoe can't drive and dish as well.

With the game on the line, on the road in the SEC, we will miss Meeks.

Somebody who I read could potentially replace Meeks that the staff is impressed with is Darnell Dodson. He has the deep threat ability that could offset the loss of Meeks, but he might as well be a freshman too.

cumberlandreds
06-16-2009, 07:23 AM
You're wrong. If he goes undrafted and doesn't hire an agent he retains his status as an amateur.

This was in todays LHL. I thought the NCAA had closed that loophole too but apparetnly they haven't. I really doubt that Meeks goes undrafted and if he did I don't expect him to come back.


It's still possible for Meeks to return to UK next season. If he is not drafted, he must submit a letter to UK Director of Athletics Mitch Barnhart within 30 days asking to re-join the team. Meeks would not be eligible for reinstatement if he retained the services of an agent, which he has not.


http://www.kentucky.com/818/story/831465.html

dabvu2498
06-16-2009, 08:51 AM
Rules aside, he ain't coming back. The kid's heart is not in college basketball any more. If there had been a smidge of doubt in his mind, don't you think he would have stayed?

macro
06-16-2009, 09:36 AM
It has been mentioned in this thread that they were ranked preseason #1 by someone and top five by many others. Does Meeks decision change all that?

WMR
06-16-2009, 09:47 AM
I'd say they will get 'knocked' for this quite a bit by the experts and early-season I think we'll miss Jodie quite a bit. They're still definitely top 10, IMO, and more likely top 5. The presence of John Wall cannot be understated.

I do think midway through the season we will have sufficiently replaced what Jodie provides. Jodie is a knock-down dead-eye shooter but the team CAN, ultimately, achieve the same goals they had pre-JM. Other players who will take Jodie's minutes can do OTHER things better than JM. We will definitely miss his ability to knock down shots, however, and it becomes incumbent upon Darnell Dodson to show that his 3 pt shooting percentage numbers were not a fluke (not that I think they were, just that he's gotta show it)

jmac
06-16-2009, 04:13 PM
It has been mentioned in this thread that they were ranked preseason #1 by someone and top five by many others. Does Meeks decision change all that?

My gut says they will be ranked by most anywhere from the 8-15 range and probably a publication or two may have them higher.
I also have heard some on local talk radio saying they go from Final Four to Elite Eight projections.

Scrap Irony
06-16-2009, 05:10 PM
I'd say they will get 'knocked' for this quite a bit by the experts and early-season I think we'll miss Jodie quite a bit. They're still definitely top 10, IMO, and more likely top 5. The presence of John Wall cannot be understated.

I do think midway through the season we will have sufficiently replaced what Jodie provides. Jodie is a knock-down dead-eye shooter but the team CAN, ultimately, achieve the same goals they had pre-JM. Other players who will take Jodie's minutes can do OTHER things better than JM. We will definitely miss his ability to knock down shots, however, and it becomes incumbent upon Darnell Dodson to show that his 3 pt shooting percentage numbers were not a fluke (not that I think they were, just that he's gotta show it)

Every player in the erstwhile starting lineup (Wall, Dodson, Miller, Patterson, Cousins) has questions about his outside shooting. And, though Dodson or Hood or any number of players may be the answer, yet another possibility (and one that's been the answer more often than not, for UK over the past 10-15 years) could be that they won't.

Again, UK could be the Team that Can't Shoot Straight.

Meeks leaving kills Kentucky's National Contender hopes. Unless, of course, three to five newcomers come through as good as hyped.

How often does that happen?

I can think of twice in the history of the game.

WMR
06-16-2009, 05:24 PM
The proof will be in the pudding. I'm predicting that Wall will have as big an impact on this squad as Derrick Rose did on the team at Memphis his year there.

Lots of folks with things to prove. I'm expecting some motivated basketball.

BRM
06-17-2009, 09:24 AM
Does that mean we will later find out that John Wall had someone else take his SAT for him?

dabvu2498
06-17-2009, 09:39 AM
Does that mean we will later find out that John Wall had someone else take his SAT for him? That would be impactful.

BRM
06-17-2009, 09:59 AM
That would be impactful.

Rose's impact went beyond the basketball court, as we are now finding out.

George Foster
06-19-2009, 11:35 PM
Pre-season polls don't mean anything. It's RPI, and the rankings the 1st Tuesday in April.:)

Scrap Irony
06-20-2009, 08:46 AM
Don't kid yourself, pre-season polls mean plenty. That's one way seedings are figured. Of course, any top 15 spot isn't a bad spot to be in.

joshnky
06-20-2009, 10:07 AM
Don't kid yourself, pre-season polls mean plenty. That's one way seedings are figured. Of course, any top 15 spot isn't a bad spot to be in.

Are you serious?

I remember the year after Louisville's final four run they started the season ranked in the top five. They had a young team with a highly touted recruiting class and one key veteran (Taquan Dean). Those polls certainly helped a lot when it came to their seeding for the NIT.

jmac
06-20-2009, 10:14 AM
Polls in basketball vs football are certainly different.
Football, one loss and you may drop out of Top Ten and any National Title hopes are out. Basketball , you have plenty of time to recover.
They dont exactly go by that on seedings. That is why some times, you will see a team ranked # 15 get a 3 seed when a 3 seed is saying " that team" is in the 9-12 group.

IslandRed
06-20-2009, 11:40 AM
Don't kid yourself, pre-season polls mean plenty. That's one way seedings are figured. Of course, any top 15 spot isn't a bad spot to be in.

I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say that pre-season ranking is considered at all, much less being a significant factor, when the NCAA selection committee sits down at the end of the season to decide who's in the tournament and seeded where.

Scrap Irony
06-20-2009, 12:09 PM
Ask Western Kentucky, Xavier, or Dayton teams of the past 5-15 years if pre-season ranking doesn't matter. Each program proves, year in and year out, to be better than many ranked above them.

Each, however, has a much tougher road than they should because they aren't ranked early.

Easier to stay in the poll than get in the poll.

joshnky
06-20-2009, 12:17 PM
Ask Western Kentucky, Xavier, or Dayton teams of the past 5-15 years if pre-season ranking doesn't matter. Each program proves, year in and year out, to be better than many ranked above them.

Each, however, has a much tougher road than they should because they aren't ranked early.

Easier to stay in the poll than get in the poll.

For mid-majors not necessarily for the big name schools in the premier conferences. And has been pointed out already, the polls are meaningless to the selection committee.

WMR
06-20-2009, 03:50 PM
For mid-majors not necessarily for the big name schools in the premier conferences. And has been pointed out already, the polls are meaningless to the selection committee.

Exactly right. How many top 25 teams does WKU play a season? Especially during their conference schedule...

Hard to make up ground when you don't play anybody which makes getting an early ranking much more important.

Scrap Irony
06-20-2009, 11:06 PM
How many Top 25 teams did Kentucky play last season in the SEC?

One?

Two?

I don't think there's more than that.

UT was, I think, when Meeks torched them for 54. Was LSU when they got beat last second?

WMR
06-20-2009, 11:25 PM
How many Top 25 teams did Kentucky play last season in the SEC?

One?

Two?

I don't think there's more than that.

UT was, I think, when Meeks torched them for 54. Was LSU when they got beat last second?

You're telling me the SEC was down last year? I had no idea. :D

I'm talking about the majority of the time.

Scrap Irony
06-21-2009, 11:29 PM
Okay, how about this one from a few years ago:

Team One is ranked Top 20 pre-season and wins more than it loses (9-6) in a tough conference. (Conference ranked toughest in the nation that year.) They play a decent schedule (Top 20), lose 9 games, win 22. According to Sagarin, their RPI was 42. They were seeded #7.

Team Two, meanwhile, was nowhere near the Top 20 pre-season. In fact, they were expected to struggle. They went 9-6 also in a tough conference (ranked #2/3 overall), lost nine games, won 21. According to Sagarin, their RPI was 44 (outside conference SoS was 16th). Their seeding? #12.

WVRed
06-23-2009, 09:55 PM
Rumor going around regarding two former UK players on the NBA front:

Pistons get:
PG-Rajon Rondo
SG-Ray Allen

Celtics get-
SF-Tayshaun Prince
SG-Rip Hamilton

Gotta love that deal for the Celtics. Rondo has been getting the "me-first" label with the Celtics that he got at Kentucky.

TeamSelig
06-24-2009, 01:03 PM
From everything I read, that deal was shot down, FWIW.

The latest rumor I've heard is Rondo + Scalabrine for Rudy Gay + Mike Conley.

WVRed
06-24-2009, 01:11 PM
From everything I read, that deal was shot down, FWIW.

The latest rumor I've heard is Rondo + Scalabrine for Rudy Gay + Mike Conley.

Yeah, I think Rodney Stuckey was in the deal as well. Can't say I blame the Pistons. Leave Stuckey out and its a fair deal.

No way the Memphis rumor happens. If it did though, could you imagine Rondo and Mayo on the same team? Wouldn't be enough basketballs to go around to keep those two happy.

Scrap Irony
06-24-2009, 01:19 PM
If I'm the Celtics, I take that deal all day and twice on Sundays. Gay is a solid, solid player and Conley, while slightly below average thus far, will at least distribute and hit the open three (40% from 3-point range).

Problem is, neither Conley nor Gay play any defense at all. And Rondo's press was great early in the playoffs. (He may have been the MVP of the First Round and was certainly among the best two or three players in the round.) Boston fans may see this as part of a rebuilding process and not improving the team.

And Rondo and Mayo would be fun to watch. Many would say both are selfish, but Rondo's proven himself unselish to the extreme in high school, college, and in the pro ranks. The Mayo/ Rondo guard duo for Memphis may not be the best shooting duo in the NBA, but they might be the most athletic. And certainly wuld be the best rebounding.

WMR
06-24-2009, 01:25 PM
Trade for Rondo, draft Thabeet, and pray to God that it works out.

Revering4Blue
06-24-2009, 08:01 PM
Horrible deal for Memphis, which is precisely why it may come to fruition:eek:

Here's another Grizzlies rumor:

The #2 pick and Millicic to the Knicks for David Lee, Quentin Richardson and #8.

We will see.

I believe that the Grizzlies need a top-flight power forward more than another center--Marc Gasol isn't bad at all.

Back to Kentucky news..

It is rumored that Meeks has recieved at least an early second round commitment, presumably from the Nuggets or Pistons.

WMR
06-24-2009, 10:27 PM
The scrimmages have been very intense. Eric Bledsoe in particular has been turning heads.

Scrap Irony
06-25-2009, 12:13 PM
Have you been to the scrimmages, WilyMo? If so, I'd love some play-by-play, of a sort. Unfortunately for UK fans, Miller, Patterson, and Orton are all off-campus and should be until late July/ early August.

Lots of questions not yet answered in Lexington. Who's going to shoot? Neither Bledsoe nor Wall is known for his outside shot. Miller didn't shoot well last season either. Dodson is untested as well. Cousins was okay in high school, but that's just that-- high school. Patterson couldn't shoot at all outside of ten feet last year. Neither could anyone else on the Kentucky team. (In fact, you could argue that Stephenson is the best returning shooter on the team.)

Hood may be a good choice, but he's also a freshman and the least balleyhooed of the bunch. (He's only the 42nd best HS player in the nation, after all.) Not to mention he's, like, 140 lbs.

WMR
06-25-2009, 04:06 PM
No I haven't been to any scrimmages but I've read reports by those who have.

Miller actually shot very well from the perimeter towards the end of the season. He can be expected to contribute perimeter offense next season along with Dodson.

Perry is the best what??? I don't think he's anywhere close to being the best shooter on the team. Hell, Josh Harrellson can shoot better than Perry.

(It's spelled Stevenson, btw)

WVRed
06-25-2009, 11:26 PM
Jodie Meeks taken by the Milwaukee Bucks in the second round.

BRM
06-26-2009, 09:55 AM
Best of luck to Jodie.

WMR
06-26-2009, 10:00 AM
I hope he can make the Bucks roster. Someone posted a list of all their guards and it was a pretty daunting list. There will be some roster movement, for sure, between now and camp, however.

BRM
06-26-2009, 10:45 AM
I hope he can make the Bucks roster. Someone posted a list of all their guards and it was a pretty daunting list. There will be some roster movement, for sure, between now and camp, however.

I just hope he makes someone's, anyone's roster. I am really rooting for him to make it. He always seemed like a great kid to me.

WVRed
06-27-2009, 01:05 AM
There is a pretty interesting rumor going around regarding Elliot Williams transferring from Duke. His mother is apparently not in good health and he is looking to acquire a hardship waiver similar to Tyler Smith which would allow him to play next year.

Given he is from Memphis, you would have to think one of the three Tennessee schools would make the most sense, especially the one closest to home. However, Kentucky is also in the mix. That being said, if he did come to Kentucky (and I doubt it), the odds of acquiring a hardship waiver would likely diminish.

IF it did happen though, Williams would likely take the place of Jodie Meeks and still have three seasons left.

WVRed
06-27-2009, 09:49 PM
Nevermind, Williams is headed to Memphis.

Matt Pilgrim is also on the radar for the Tigers as well. It's taken some work, but Pastner could have them in prime position to win C-USA next season even with the defections.

cumberlandreds
06-30-2009, 10:38 AM
The John Calipari era will begin November 2nd against Campbellsville in an exhibition game. So mark your calendars. I have also read that UK will play Clairion University on November 6th in another exhibition game. That school is Calipari's alma mater.

http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=10615900&nav=menu203_4

WMR
06-30-2009, 02:59 PM
:laugh:

More Xavier Henry talk burning up the message boards.

He does not want to be at Kansas.

BRM
06-30-2009, 03:12 PM
:laugh:

More Xavier Henry talk burning up the message boards.

He does not want to be at Kansas.

The way I hear it he doesn't want to be in college. The kid has no desire to attend class. I don't think that's necessarily a Kansas thing per se.

WMR
06-30-2009, 03:17 PM
According to the interview given by his father, he always wanted to follow Cal to UK but his mom refused to leave Kansas. Now she has given her blessing and agreed to follow Xavier to Lexington.

BRM
06-30-2009, 03:19 PM
I haevn't heard that interview personally but that's not how I was told it went down. If I was told wrong and what you say is correct, then the kid should decommit and go to UK if that makes him happy.

Honestly, kids like LeBron Henry are the main reason I hate the one and done rule. Too much drama for a kid who really has no desire to be in college. He'd be going straight to the draft if not for that idiotic rule.

WMR
06-30-2009, 03:23 PM
Well, that's straight from the father's mouth and as crazy as he is, I don't think he's a liar.

Denying Kansas would be almost as important as adding his talent.

WMR
06-30-2009, 03:27 PM
"If it wasn't for his momma saying that 'I would not go to Kentucky, I would not move down to Kentucky,' Xavier would have been at Kentucky. He would have been at Kentucky. He would have been at Kentucky if it wasn't for his mom saying, 'I didn't want to move to Kentucky.' So Xavier says, 'I'm going to go to Kansas.' Even though that's what he wanted to do is go to Kentucky, play under Coach Cal. That's what he wanted to do. I expressed this to Coach Self. I told him. Now, all of this stuff that's been said, his mom don't care where he goes. So guess what? Kid might have a change of mind. That's what I tell coach Self. If he has a change of mind, so what? So be it. He has a change of mind."

BRM
06-30-2009, 03:29 PM
What a drama queen. Just let these kids go to the NBA already.

WMR
06-30-2009, 03:31 PM
What a drama queen. Just let these kids go to the NBA already.

Nahhhhh, we'll take 'em for a year. :D

I'm sure His Holiness Master Crean wouldn't want him. :p:

WVRed
06-30-2009, 03:40 PM
According to KSR the Henry's are supposed to be having a family meeting tonight to decide what to do. They have said Kentucky is an option, Europe is not.

Just the fact that it came from Carl Henry gives it credibility.

WMR
06-30-2009, 03:42 PM
Kansas folks seems to think the Henry's leaving KU is a foregone conclusion.

http://boards.kusports.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1446541&page=0&fpart=8&vc=1

BRM
06-30-2009, 03:46 PM
Nahhhhh, we'll take 'em for a year. :D

I'm sure His Holiness Master Crean wouldn't want him. :p:

I don't know if he does or not and I don't care. I hate the freaking rule. That's all I'm saying.

WVRed
06-30-2009, 03:46 PM
If Kentucky does manage to get Xavier Henry, the good news is that Meeks presence will be replaced.

The bad news is that I believe this will ultimately add more fuel to the fire that Cal is a shady coach and somehow contributed to the Henry's leaving to come to Kentucky. Paging Pat Forde.

WMR
06-30-2009, 03:47 PM
I don't know if he does or not and I don't care. I hate the freaking rule. That's all I'm saying.

I know, just messing with you. :D

Do you think Indiana should recruit one and done kids?

BRM
06-30-2009, 03:47 PM
According to KSR the Henry's are supposed to be having a family meeting tonight to decide what to do. They have said Kentucky is an option, Europe is not.

Just the fact that it came from Carl Henry gives it credibility.

"Carl Henry" and "credibility" don't belong in the same sentence. Just FYI.

BRM
06-30-2009, 03:50 PM
I know, just messing with you. :D

Do you think Indiana should recruit one and done kids?

I wish it wasn't an option for any school to recruit those kids. That said, all coaches will go for the best talent regardless. It's the nature of the beast. For me, it would have to be case by case. Some kids are much bigger headaches than others.

WVRed
06-30-2009, 03:53 PM
I know, just messing with you. :D

Do you think Indiana should recruit one and done kids?

I'm not BRM but I'll answer anyways.

I'm for recruiting them if you need somebody who can make a quick and instant impact on overall talent. However, with rare exceptions would I want the ball in their hands if the game is on the line.

You still need clutch shooters and those players usually are not freshman. As much as people are starting to give Kentucky banner number eight if they get Henry, I would be more worried that if the game was on the line and we needed a three pointer to win it if one of our perimeter players could step it up.

WVRed
06-30-2009, 03:54 PM
I wish it wasn't an option for any school to recruit those kids. That said, all coaches will go for the best talent regardless. It's the nature of the beast. For me, it would have to be case by case. Some kids are much bigger headaches than others.

Doesn't seem to me like Crean goes for the one and done's. He is more of the Tubby Smith type who recruits players who will stay for four years and play his style of ball.

WVRed
06-30-2009, 03:56 PM
According to JayhawkSlant (KU's Rivals affiliate), Danny Manning and Bill Self are headed to OKC tonight to meet with the family.

BRM
06-30-2009, 04:01 PM
Doesn't seem to me like Crean goes for the one and done's. He is more of the Tubby Smith type who recruits players who will stay for four years and play his style of ball.

He has said he won't shy away from those types but they won't be commonplace at IU.

dabvu2498
06-30-2009, 04:42 PM
"Carl Henry" and "credibility" don't belong in the same sentence. Just FYI. The man never met an interview he didn't like. As for the possibilities of having 8 newcomers plus Patterson and Miller and 4 others? No way there is enough PT and shots to keep all those dudes happy. May be tough as it is. And I can't believe the NCAA would grant CJ a waiver at UK if he has already applied for one at KU.

WMR
06-30-2009, 04:46 PM
Wall
Henry
Miller
Patterson/Cousins
Orton/Cousins

If there were enough shots for the 96 team then there are enough shots for this team as well. Getting it right will be a process, however.

I bet by February this team will be rocking and rolling, X. Henry or no.

dabvu2498
06-30-2009, 04:59 PM
Difference: the 96 team had a good bit of upperclassman leadership. Not a bunch of dudes wanting to showcase themselves for the draft.

BRM
06-30-2009, 05:00 PM
And I can't believe the NCAA would grant CJ a waiver at UK if he has already applied for one at KU.

Good point.

WMR
06-30-2009, 05:10 PM
Difference: the 96 team had a good bit of upperclassman leadership. Not a bunch of dudes wanting to showcase themselves for the draft.

Thank God we've got Patrick Patterson for another year.

BRM
06-30-2009, 05:15 PM
Thank God we've got Patrick Patterson for another year.

Who will also be wanting to showcase his talent for the draft.

dabvu2498
06-30-2009, 05:22 PM
Thank God we've got Patrick Patterson for another year. Assuming he will be healthy. The 96 team you refer to had 2 heavily recruited frosh that barely played and Ron Mercer who got 8 a game.

WMR
06-30-2009, 05:24 PM
Who will also be wanting to showcase his talent for the draft.

Pat wants to go to the FF. Maybe also the least selfish player on the team. Having him as the unquestioned "BOSS" of this squad is one reason I'm very optimistic about this thing working out.

WMR
06-30-2009, 05:25 PM
Assuming he will be healthy. The 96 team you refer to had 2 heavily recruited frosh that barely played and Ron Mercer who got 8 a game.

Pat's health should be fine. He certainly won't have to take as much physical abuse this season. No more double/triple/quadruple teams. :D

dabvu2498
06-30-2009, 06:40 PM
Pat wants to go to the FF. Maybe also the least selfish player on the team. Having him as the unquestioned "BOSS" of this squad is one reason I'm very optimistic about this thing working out. So that's why he is on campus this summer, helping the newcomers get acclimated? ;)

WVRed
06-30-2009, 10:37 PM
Perfect time for TBK to crash.

WMR
06-30-2009, 10:39 PM
No kidding. At first when the site wouldn't go up I thought to myself, "Well, the Henry's must have settled on coming to Kentucky."

WVRed
06-30-2009, 10:40 PM
Good blog entry by Bomani Jones on KSR. Bomani was one who followed the Wall saga and had some pretty good info.


Good to see you all again. I just got home from Coach K’s summer press conference. I know you’re jealous.

Word is that Xavier Henry and his little — thought older - brother C.J. might be on the way to Kentucky. My money’s on him coming to Lexington, which means that one of you is already filming a video that will embarrass your state and the Shaolin temple.

But before you do, I want you to read this Kansas City Star article that has their father, Carl Henry so angry.

Then, read this response to that from Carl on TheShiver.com (parts 1 and 2).

The moral of the story — Xavier and C.J. don’t want to go to Kansas because of something written in a newspaper in Kansas City…Missouri?

Xavier and C.J. went to Kansas to make their mother happy?

Carl Henry’s upset about how a writer characterized his decision to ignore a call during a conversation?

You think you want that? That’s a fair trade for a player whose greatest attribute is his NBA body — not his NBA game — and hates school, but isn’t really good enough to leave school after one season?

I actually feel bad for these young men. They made the decision to go to Kansas because their mother wanted them to go there, and no child should ever feel responsible for the emotional well-being of his parents. It’s an impossible situation, and it seems to me to be an indicator that there will be more drama soon. There’s their father, who clearly talks too damn much.

And then there are these boys, who were ready to get out of Kansas as soon as they heard it would be OK with their mama.

Kentucky’s already got to figure out how to get everyone enough shots. Based on what I saw in all-star games, Xavier doesn’t get all the shots he wants in one-on-one.

Is this what you want?

I don’t think so.

In all the excitement surrounding Cal’s arrival in Lexington, we haven’t talked much about the potential for this all to turn into a circus. John Wall’s there, but so is Brian Clifton and everything that comes with him. The madness surrounding Memphis is sure to resurface again (ESPN doesn’t put that many people on a case unless they’re working on something big for down the line, a la O.J. Mayo/Rodney Guillory). There’s still room for the Wall/Bledsoe pairing to go wrong if someone doesn’t feel he’s getting enough time and/or shots. And while he seems to have handled everything the right way since he got to Lexington, we’ll have to see how much Patrick Patterson likes spending his season on the weak side, as the DDM calls for.

Kentucky might be a top 5 team, but there’s room for this season to be a train wreck. Why chance it with players whose parents clearly have too much influence on what happens with their children?

Sorry, but this doesn’t seem like a good idea to me. Is UK a title team without Xavier? Maybe not.

But, strange as it sounds, there’s a chance they could be worse with him.

WMR
06-30-2009, 10:46 PM
Bomani sounds pretty foolish when he talks about Xavier's game. Basing your stupid comments on a player off of all-star games is probably the absolute worst way to judge a player's ability, especially a top player.

How many people does ESPN "have" on the "Memphis case"? Another stupid comment.

Cal's biggest obstacle will be taking all of these ingredients and successfully mixing them together into a cohesive unit wherein everyone understands their roles and accepts those roles.

cumberlandreds
07-01-2009, 07:21 AM
According to this the Henry's are staying in Kansas. I'm glad they are. They are just a little too much of me only with them. I think they may have been big distraction just judging by what I have read about the father.

http://www.kentucky.com/818/story/848273.html

WVRed
07-01-2009, 07:22 AM
Looks like Henry is staying:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9752510/Henry-sticking-with-decision-to-play-for-Kansas



Xavier Henry is sticking with Kansas.

Xavier Henry confirmed that he will play for Kansas next season. (Doug Benc / Getty Images)

"I'm going to Kansas," Henry texted to FOXSports.com late Tuesday night. "That's final."

The news came after a crazy day in which Henry's father, Carl, told KCSP 610 Sports Radio in Kansas City earlier on Tuesday that his son was considering playing at Kentucky and that the family would meet on Tuesday night.

According to sources, Kansas coach Bill Self flew to Oklahoma City and met with the family on Tuesday night.

"If it wasn't for his mom saying, 'I would not go to Kentucky, I would not move down to Kentucky,' Xavier would have been at Kentucky,'" Henry said during the radio interview. "He would have been at Kentucky. So Xavier says, 'I'm going to go to Kansas,' even though ... what he wanted to do is go to Kentucky, play under Coach Cal. That's what he wanted to do. I expressed this to Coach Self. I told him."

Henry, considered one of the elite players in the incoming freshman class, initially signed with Memphis prior to coach John Calipari leaving for Kentucky and then chose Kansas over Kentucky after being released from his letter-of-intent.

Henry would have been allowed to go to another school since a player is only allowed to sign one letter-of-intent, and while he did sign papers, they are not binding — and Henry is not enrolled in summer school at Kansas.

With Henry in the fold, Kansas will likely be the consensus No. 1 team in the country entering the 2009-10 season. If he had switched allegiances to Kentucky, the Wildcats likely would have begun in the top spot.

BRM
07-01-2009, 09:05 AM
According to this the Henry's are staying in Kansas. I'm glad they are. They are just a little too much of me only with them. I think they may have been big distraction just judging by what I have read about the father.

http://www.kentucky.com/818/story/848273.html

Bolded for truth.

dabvu2498
07-01-2009, 09:31 AM
Bomani sounds pretty foolish when he talks about Xavier's game. Basing your stupid comments on a player off of all-star games is probably the absolute worst way to judge a player's ability, especially a top player. How many people does ESPN "have" on the "Memphis case"? Another stupid comment. Cal's biggest obstacle will be taking all of these ingredients and successfully mixing them together into a cohesive unit wherein everyone understands their roles and accepts those roles. And his premise is that adding the Henrys wouldn't have helped that situation. And I would say he was right. I don't envy Bill Self, honestly.

DTCromer
07-01-2009, 10:23 AM
Looks like Henry is staying:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9752510/Henry-sticking-with-decision-to-play-for-Kansas

Wow. If he stays, it's probably one of the few times Cal has been outbid with an overbid by Kansas.

WMR
07-01-2009, 11:13 AM
And his premise is that adding the Henrys wouldn't have helped that situation. And I would say he was right. I don't envy Bill Self, honestly.

That part of his premise is fine. Basing his "analysis" of Xavier's game off of some all-star games that he watched on television is just stupid, however.

dabvu2498
07-01-2009, 11:35 AM
That part of his premise is fine. Basing his "analysis" of Xavier's game off of some all-star games that he watched on television is just stupid, however. No stupider than getting psyched over youtube videos! ;)

WVRed
07-01-2009, 03:39 PM
And his premise is that adding the Henrys wouldn't have helped that situation. And I would say he was right. I don't envy Bill Self, honestly.

Same here. It's a matter of can he contain the ego of Xavier Henry and a father who can't seem to keep his mouth shut.

I do agree with Bomani in that the whole situation in Lexington could either be a potential Final Four season or a potential three ring circus. If X would have came in, that would have added more potential chaos.

WVRed
07-01-2009, 09:51 PM
Should note that the Scout.com rankings for 2011 were unveiled today. Michael Gilchrist is the number one player in the nation and is considered to be a huge Kentucky lean. Add in the possibility of Jeff Teague and it could be a pretty good haul.

Hoosier Red
07-02-2009, 03:27 PM
Marquis Teague. If you get Jeff Teague I imagine there will be some amateur issues.

WVRed
07-02-2009, 04:10 PM
Marquis Teague. If you get Jeff Teague I imagine there will be some amateur issues.

Whoops, good point.

Perry Ellis, who is projected to be the number one player in the class of 2012, is slated to visit Kentucky this weekend. He won player of the year honors in Kansas as a freshman, so if Kentucky was able to pull this off in Bill Self's backyard would be something special.

Kentucky is also in the lead for Doron Lamb after losing out on Will Barton.

WMR
07-02-2009, 04:26 PM
I think we're going to get Doron. Would be a very nice addition for the 2010 class. I saw that something like 19 of the top 25 two guards are already committed.

Our 2011 class is going to be nastyyyy as hell.

Scrap Irony
07-02-2009, 04:33 PM
For those in the know, what are Kentucky's needs for 2010? I'm guessing Wall, Cousins, and Patterson are gone; what will they need?

Because, as Wily Mo has insisted, no one can recruit against Calipari and the Cats;), right?

WMR
07-02-2009, 04:40 PM
For those in the know, what are Kentucky's needs for 2010? I'm guessing Wall, Cousins, and Patterson are gone; what will they need?

Because, as Wily Mo has insisted, no one can recruit against Calipari and the Cats;), right?

Well, he was the best recruiter in the nation at--compared to UK--lowly Memphis.

The 2010 class will be good (for Cal standards), but it's 2011 and on that will all likely be very spectacular classes, even by Cal's lofty standards, because those kids will get to see the new-look Kentucky Wildcats with their shiny new SEC ESPN tv deal playing a very fun and attractive style of basketball while putting kids into the NBA.

Also, as I'm sure you're aware, much of the 2010 class is already committed to a school which seriously narrows the options. 2011 and on are all pretty much wide open. A kid like Joe Jackson, for instance, may be impossible to get out of Memphis.

You can somewhat project 2010's starting roster and identify the biggest needs ...

pg- Bledsoe
sg - Hood/Dodson
sf- Miller
pf- ???
c- Orton

You could see Miller at the 4 with both Dodson and Hood starting that season. That would be fine for the DDMO. A PG and a couple big men are probably the most pressing needs although Cal will have plenty of schollies available. However, for the exact reasons that I've stated, don't be surprised if he keeps a couple of those scholarships in his back pocket for the 2011 class which will likely be another #1 class for UK.

dabvu2498
07-02-2009, 06:09 PM
Fwiw, Orton said in an interview this week that he will be 1 and done if he is "good enough." So don't count on his return either.

Puffy
07-02-2009, 06:31 PM
I don't know how North Carolina is going to be able to survive when the top 5 recruits of every cycle will be Calipari's.

I really wanted McAdoo. UNC is his favorite school, his dad is a legend there, and he already has an offer from Williams. But he is the number 2 recruit of 2011 according to Scout and Kentucky is listed as interested so we have no shot :(

WMR
07-02-2009, 06:34 PM
I don't know how North Carolina is going to be able to survive when the top 5 recruits of every cycle will be Calipari's.

I really wanted McAdoo. UNC is his favorite school, his dad is a legend there, and he already has an offer from Williams. But he is the number 2 recruit of 2011 according to Scout and Kentucky is listed as interested so we have no shot :(

Why do you post in this thread? Just curious.

Isn't there a UNC board where you can troll?

WMR
07-02-2009, 06:35 PM
Fwiw, Orton said in an interview this week that he will be 1 and done if he is "good enough." So don't count on his return either.

Good point. Many think Orton would have been a consensus top 10 player in this class if it wasn't for his recuperation from his knee injury.

Puffy
07-02-2009, 07:53 PM
Why do you post in this thread? Just curious.

Isn't there a UNC board where you can troll?

troll? Wow. Sorry, I thought I was allowed to post on all threads. My bad.

WMR
07-02-2009, 08:18 PM
troll? Wow. Sorry, I thought I was allowed to post on all threads. My bad.

Why is it that every post in this thread is some sort of baiting post?

And I'm not talking joking around either. You seem to honestly have gotten your feelings hurt and are constantly looking to pick a fight.

TeamSelig
07-03-2009, 11:46 AM
Fwiw, Orton said in an interview this week that he will be 1 and done if he is "good enough." So don't count on his return either.

I'm not sure he gets a ton of PT. Patterson & Cousins will take the majority of the time IMO. I think he ends up starting his sophomore year and leaving for the draft.

Scrap Irony
07-03-2009, 01:02 PM
Now, see, I've stated earlier that Orton may start. He's being undervalued by some Kentucky fans. Big, strong, and agile, Orton is also really athletic, and, because of his apparent extraordinary work ethic, he's not going to loaf.

Orton is the type of guy who'll get you 12 and 10 without a play being run for him. He won't try to do something he can't do and he'll play good D both on the ball and off. Coaches at all levels love that type of kid and play him early and often.

Orton, IMO, is the second most likely freshman to play well early, as he needs little coaching on what he does well and won't be asked to do something he hasn't done much of already.

Cousins is, IMO, a likely disappointment, as is Miller. Most Kentucky fans are expecting Jody Meeks-like shooting from Miller. He's not that type of player. And to ask Dodson and Hood, at this point, to provide dead-eye shots from long range is probably expecting too much as well.

But they'll run and play D. And Patterson and Wall are likely to average 15 points a game between them. (In Patterson's case, in 7-10 less minutes a game.) The SEC isn't ready for that type of team. That should be good for a solid seed and the Sweet 16. If Cousins is more Antoine Walker and less Marvin Stone, they could go Final Four.

WVRed
07-03-2009, 01:38 PM
Now, see, I've stated earlier that Orton may start. He's being undervalued by some Kentucky fans. Big, strong, and agile, Orton is also really athletic, and, because of his apparent extraordinary work ethic, he's not going to loaf.

Orton is the type of guy who'll get you 12 and 10 without a play being run for him. He won't try to do something he can't do and he'll play good D both on the ball and off. Coaches at all levels love that type of kid and play him early and often.

Orton, IMO, is the second most likely freshman to play well early, as he needs little coaching on what he does well and won't be asked to do something he hasn't done much of already.

Cousins is, IMO, a likely disappointment, as is Miller. Most Kentucky fans are expecting Jody Meeks-like shooting from Miller. He's not that type of player. And to ask Dodson and Hood, at this point, to provide dead-eye shots from long range is probably expecting too much as well.

But they'll run and play D. And Patterson and Wall are likely to average 15 points a game between them. (In Patterson's case, in 7-10 less minutes a game.) The SEC isn't ready for that type of team. That should be good for a solid seed and the Sweet 16. If Cousins is more Antoine Walker and less Marvin Stone, they could go Final Four.

I could see Orton pushing Cousins for playing time, and of course it will only help in resting Patterson. The only problem is, if Orton does take minutes from the one and done Cousins, how much of an attitude will Cousins have and how will that affect the team?

The real wild card for UK IMO will be the development of Eric Bledsoe. He won't provide a deep threat that Kentucky needs, but I do think defensively and penetration will be key to success.

TeamSelig
07-04-2009, 11:36 PM
Personally I see Cousins tearing it up.

As for Patterson, his scoring will decrease IMO. To me, he doesn't seem like the type of player to ensure he gets his in each game. He'll be extremely effective and the glue to the team, but not big on statistics.

Hopefully all of our players drown each others "light" out and they share the stats so they all stay an extra year to improve their stock ;)

BRM
07-06-2009, 09:56 AM
Why do you post in this thread? Just curious.

Isn't there a UNC board where you can troll?

Personally, I love it when Puffy posts in this thread. ;)

WVRed
07-06-2009, 02:50 PM
Billy G tribute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLC-CNKCUis&feature=player_embedded

Best Days of Your Life by Kellie Pickler.

TeamSelig
07-06-2009, 07:18 PM
mmm kellie pickler

WVRed
07-08-2009, 12:26 PM
Cal and the King:
http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/calandlebron2.jpg

WVRed
07-08-2009, 01:12 PM
Also, according to KSR, Jodie Meeks has signed a 2 year guaranteed deal with the Bucks.

cumberlandreds
07-08-2009, 01:21 PM
If it wasn't for that minor detail of having earned millions of dollars LeBron would have four years of eligibilty left to play in college. :)

Good for Jodie! I don't think many 2nd round picks get guaranteed contracts. The Bucks must feel he will be a big help to them.