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cbowen2112
05-30-2009, 12:03 AM
The Joey Votto saga is getting curiouser and curiouser.

Votto, Dusty Baker, trainer Mark Mann and Walt Jocketty met in Baker's office for about a half hour after the game.

Votto came out first and declined to talk to reporters.


Baker was nearly as tight-lipped. Asked if every thing was OK with Votto, he said:


“No not really. He had symptoms like he’s had in the past.”


Will the club make a roster move?


“We don’t know,” Baker said.


Baker would only say that Votto will not play today.


It was the third time Votto has left game feeling light-headed and dizzy since returning from a flu-like illness and an inner-ear infection. He also missed 12 starts. At least two of the games left were on the day after he flew.


There’s a chance the Reds have decided to put Votto on the disabled list but are in the process of figuring out who to call up. Could be Wilkin Castillo to give them an extra catcher, if Ramon Hernandez is going to play first. Could be Drew Stubbs, if Jonny Gomes is going to play first.

aubashbrother
05-30-2009, 12:04 AM
call up stubbs if they dl him. i dont want to to castillo on this team

Slyder
05-30-2009, 12:38 AM
Call up Stubbs or another OF and 'platoon' Hernandez, Gomes, and Rosales at 1b? Maybe?

NorrisHopper30
05-30-2009, 01:33 AM
Yonder

ChatterRed
05-30-2009, 03:44 AM
This really concerns me. I'm worried for Votto and the team.

robmadden1
05-30-2009, 04:56 AM
It could be something else. Did they ever do a MRI on his head to see if anything is wrong up their besides the ear infection. I know what hese going through with the ear infection. I get constant ear infectections all the time since the end of November. I never got light headed with my infections or i just did not notice since I was not active like Joey Votto is. One infection took me a full 30 days to get over it had to use 2 steriod packs plus antibiotics to get rid of it. My ear drum was infected.

reds1869
05-30-2009, 07:02 AM
It could be something else. Did they ever do a MRI on his head to see if anything is wrong up their besides the ear infection. I know what hese going through with the ear infection. I get constant ear infectections all the time since the end of November. I never got light headed with my infections or i just did not notice since I was not active like Joey Votto is. One infection took me a full 30 days to get over it had to use 2 steriod packs plus antibiotics to get rid of it. My ear drum was infected.

They should do an MRI for sure, but I assume they already have. It would be irresponsible not to. I had similar symptoms and after much testing was eventually diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis...I hope for Votto's sake that is not the case but they certainly need to rule it out.

NastyBoy
05-30-2009, 08:27 AM
I have only had one ear infection my entire life and it was a really bad one about 10 years ago. To this day, I am still affected by tinnitus, fullness in the ear and hearing loss. With all the advances in medicine, it really comes down to doctors often times just their best educated guess. There is no magic pill to cure his problems except time... and even then there is no guarantee that it will. This is the worst possible news for the Reds. Especially as they start a road trip against division rivals.

schmidty622
05-30-2009, 09:12 AM
Guess we shouldn't be locking him up anytime soon. If this is a lingering problem I really wouldn't want the Reds to commit themselves and then get burned.

Hobo Hal
05-30-2009, 09:56 AM
Like 2869 said, they've almost certainly done an MRI. That lets them rule out acoustic neuroma and get a general look see around plus its non-invasive.

Ghosts of 1990
05-30-2009, 10:45 AM
I still think its lyme disease or vertigo. Whenever someone has lyme disease they are mis diagnosed about a hundred times and finally lyme disease is one of the last possible causes after "normal tests" come out every other time. And yeah people I know have been diagnosed with inner ear infection to explain their dizziness and it ended up being lyme.

reds1869
05-30-2009, 11:38 AM
I still think its lyme disease or vertigo. Whenever someone has lyme disease they are mis diagnosed about a hundred times and finally lyme disease is one of the last possible causes after "normal tests" come out every other time. And yeah people I know have been diagnosed with inner ear infection to explain their dizziness and it ended up being lyme.

I would be shocked if they haven't run the entire battery of Lyme indicators. When they were trying to figure out what my problem was they used every possible test for Lyme Disease even though they didn't think that was what I had. They will almost certainly have done so for someone from Ontario, a hotbed of Lyme cases.

Ghosts of 1990
05-30-2009, 12:03 PM
I would be shocked if they haven't run the entire battery of Lyme indicators. When they were trying to figure out what my problem was they used every possible test for Lyme Disease even though they didn't think that was what I had. They will almost certainly have done so for someone from Ontario, a hotbed of Lyme cases.

Yeah this is an important point. Ontario is a hotbed for Lyme which aside from his symptoms is making me think it could be the culprit. Also, I think its important to point out that the testing for Lyme disease (if you do a little research you'll see what I mean) is terrible. There are false positives and even more false negatives. You really have to diagnose someone and treat based on symptoms. A lot of people in my support group have been diagnosed clinically meaning they are sick with the illness but they never showed a positive test.

When they said Votto's heart was racing in Arizona that first game he came out of and the dizziness and he could not center himself.... I heard all I needed to hear. The fact that it hasn't exactly cleared up yet reminds me of my own trial and error diagnosis. It was a million other things before they found what was really wrong with me.

big boy
05-30-2009, 12:05 PM
Yonder

Good idea. He is on the 40 man roster, correct?

Ghosts of 1990
05-30-2009, 12:08 PM
Hal mccoy already said it won't be Yonder. They're doing everything in their power not to rush the kid. I would expect him up at September at the earliest and that's only if he mashes the ball. Remember how patient they were with Votto and Bruce. They don't want to use up a year of Yonder's arbitration until they absolutely have to.

Larkinfan_11
05-30-2009, 12:29 PM
Keep Yonder down, hopefully Votto will recover completely, then we can keep Yonder for trade bait. If he comes up now and looks lost may lose some immediate value in the market.

UC_Ken
05-30-2009, 01:47 PM
Yonder's in single A. He has a great future but he would get abused in the majors right now.

redsfanfalcon
05-30-2009, 02:47 PM
Votto is on the DL, Castillo back up per Rotoworld.

reds1869
05-30-2009, 02:48 PM
Yeah this is an important point. Ontario is a hotbed for Lyme which aside from his symptoms is making me think it could be the culprit. Also, I think its important to point out that the testing for Lyme disease (if you do a little research you'll see what I mean) is terrible. There are false positives and even more false negatives. You really have to diagnose someone and treat based on symptoms. A lot of people in my support group have been diagnosed clinically meaning they are sick with the illness but they never showed a positive test.

When they said Votto's heart was racing in Arizona that first game he came out of and the dizziness and he could not center himself.... I heard all I needed to hear. The fact that it hasn't exactly cleared up yet reminds me of my own trial and error diagnosis. It was a million other things before they found what was really wrong with me.

Excellent post. Sounds like we've been through essentially the same mess, lol. Our conditions are often misdiagnosed as one another. When I took all of the Lyme tests and they were negative, my neurologist ordered another round to be certain...too many false negatives occur. It was only when there were too many factors that pointed to another disease that they ruled out Lyme for certain. I am sure young Mr. Votto is having more needles stuck in him and receiving more scans than anyone on this board would care to imagine. :(

BurgervilleBuck
05-30-2009, 03:59 PM
Baseball can wait, Joey. Get yourself healthy.

Ghosts of 1990
05-30-2009, 04:04 PM
Votto may be back in Toronto. Left after last night's game. This is a huge blow to this team.

http://twitter.com/johnfayman/status/1974276647

Ghosts of 1990
05-30-2009, 04:06 PM
And Mccoy confirms, Votto to the DL:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/05/30/votto_finally_placed_on_disabl.html

Dude Rock
05-30-2009, 04:34 PM
I still think its lyme disease or vertigo. Whenever someone has lyme disease they are mis diagnosed about a hundred times and finally lyme disease is one of the last possible causes after "normal tests" come out every other time. And yeah people I know have been diagnosed with inner ear infection to explain their dizziness and it ended up being lyme.

I knew someone who had Lyme disease and Joey's symptoms don't remind me of what they had. Also, in refreshing my memory about the disease by reading up on it, I still don't think that's what he has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease

Ghosts of 1990
05-30-2009, 04:43 PM
I knew someone who had Lyme disease and Joey's symptoms don't remind me of what they had. Also, in refreshing my memory about the disease by reading up on it, I still don't think that's what he has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease

Dizziness, heart racing, anxiety, not being able to center yourself....... couldn't have said it more to a "T" it is exactly what I experienced and it scared me to death at age 25

Red in Atl
05-30-2009, 04:52 PM
But it also makes a lot of sense to have a really bad inner ear infection that just get aggravated worse every time he flies. I mean 3 days to somewhat recover, then boom, cabin pressure blows the infection back up.

Regardless, he's out till the ASB. Rest of the boys need to step up and show the central they are for real. Stay close, and then have a healthy Votto for the 2nd half run.

Dude Rock
05-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Dizziness, heart racing, anxiety, not being able to center yourself....... couldn't have said it more to a "T" it is exactly what I experienced and it scared me to death at age 25

The person I knew had a skin rash and other more prominent symptoms.

Oh well. We'll find out eventually.

Rockermann
05-30-2009, 05:17 PM
More from Fay... And there is certainly more to the story...

"The Reds could not say much beyond what the press release said about Joey Votto going on the disabled list.

“Not much,” Dusty Baker said. “He’s dealing with personal issue. He wants us to respect his privacy about it. And he’s dealing with it.”

Said Walt Jocketty: “There’s nothing more to add to it. Joey needs some time away to deal with something that is affecting his ability to play at the level he wants to play with.

“So we gave the time.”

The inner-ear infection has been part of ongoing problem.

“It has been part of it,” Jockey said. “I’ll leave it at that.”

ChatterRed
05-30-2009, 05:27 PM
I have to say in all my years of following major league baseball this is one of the strangest events I've ever witnessed.

ochoa30
05-30-2009, 05:37 PM
I have to say in all my years of following major league baseball this is one of the strangest events I've ever witnessed.

And just keeps getting stranger. All i can say is I hope he handles his business no matter how long it takes for him. Fans can sometimes be selfish because these young men are viewed as above human. The fact is that he's no different then most of us. His well being is much more important than baseball will ever be. Good luck joey.

Ghosts of 1990
05-30-2009, 05:50 PM
Here's my thoughts after reading all the most recent quotes (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/05/30/reds_say_votto_just_needs_time.html). I think that Votto is having problems now with panic attacks and anxiety. I think it's obvious although they aren't coming out and saying it, that is what is going on. I think he's had a few incidents that scared him to death on the field where he thought he was going to collapse or have a heart attack or whatever. This could be brought on by lyme disease or it could just be that he's having anxiety problems and now they're going to get him on some medication. And at the very least this is one of the strangest stories I've ever followed involving a player as well.

texasdave
05-30-2009, 05:53 PM
Votto is on the DL, Castillo back up per Rotoworld.

So the Reds, indeed, decided to go with a 24-man roster. Wilkens Castillo. 'Nuf said.

BRM13
05-30-2009, 06:32 PM
Here's my thoughts after reading all the most recent quotes (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/05/30/reds_say_votto_just_needs_time.html). I think that Votto is having problems now with panic attacks and anxiety. I think it's obvious although they aren't coming out and saying it, that is what is going on. I think he's had a few incidents that scared him to death on the field where he thought he was going to collapse or have a heart attack or whatever. This could be brought on by lyme disease or it could just be that he's having anxiety problems and now they're going to get him on some medication. And at the very least this is one of the strangest stories I've ever followed involving a player as well.

I recall a decent high school player in New Jersey-Anthony Soprano, I think his name was--with similar symptoms.

SidneySlicker
05-30-2009, 06:45 PM
Zack Greinke cy young candidate from the Royals dealt with social anxiety disorder last year. He ended up going on the 60day dl before coming back. I myself have dealt with the same thing. It is no joke and something that must be dealt with or it can really cripple someone mentally and physically. It is more common than many people think. Joey whatever your dealing with we're all rooting for you to get yourself better, baseball will be there for you when you're ready.

Newport Red
05-30-2009, 06:54 PM
Said Walt Jocketty: “There’s nothing more to add to it. Joey needs some time away to deal with something that is affecting his ability to play at the level he wants to play with.”

I think this is the money quote.

Joey is a hardworking, serious guy. If he has a shortcoming, he takes the time to overcome it. Sudden dizziness is something he can't go to the batting cage and work through and he is stressing out about it.

Brutus
05-30-2009, 06:56 PM
Really sounds to me like the physical issue is not what put him on the DL. Perhaps the diagnosis of the ear infection was correct, but there happens to be something else going on what we do not know about (nor do we need to be privy to).

Lockdwn11
05-30-2009, 08:17 PM
Dizziness, heart racing, anxiety, not being able to center yourself....... couldn't have said it more to a "T" it is exactly what I experienced and it scared me to death at age 25

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_ear_infection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_ear_infection)

I think this sound more like what Votto is dealing with.

dth42888
05-30-2009, 11:46 PM
http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_ear_infection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_ear_infection)

I think this sound more like what Votto is dealing with.

Per WIkipedia:


Because anxiety interferes with the balance compensation process, it is important to treat an anxiety disorder and/or depression as soon as possible to allow the brain to compensate for any vestibular damage.

and


Recovery from acute labyrinthine inflammation generally takes from one to six weeks; however, it is not uncommon for residual symptoms (dysequilibrium and/or dizziness) to last for many months or even years[4] if permanent damage occurs.

Recovery from a permanently damaged inner ear typically follows three phases:

1. An acute period, which may include severe vertigo and vomiting
2. approximately two weeks of subacute symptoms and rapid recovery
3. finally a period of chronic compensation which may last for months or years.


Anxiety is directly related to an inner ear infection. This is a big problem if this is what is Votto is experiencing. I'm not trying to be chicken little or anything but i think this is going to be an issue for a while.

redsfanfalcon
05-31-2009, 12:03 AM
If I recall right, Joey lost his dad not long ago, so I can only speculate if that is a portion of this. Whatever it is, Joey is a classy guy and he deserves privacy. As a Reds fan, I am selfish to want to see him on the field helping my favorite team win. As a person, I want him to overcome whatever it is and be back as the positive teammate/person that he is in the Reds clubhouse. He always seems to say the right things and do the right things. My prayers are with you, Joey.

Ghosts of 1990
05-31-2009, 12:20 AM
Ok so I talked to someone close to the situation tonight. Not 100% so I'm not going to start a new thread or proclaim this is the end all of the situation, but Votto aparently has a vestibular disorder which is causing him major anxiety and suffering. This could be something that plagues him for quite some time and he might not be back before the All-Star break if at all.... there is no timetable as of right now. More as I hear it.

Redlegs Homer
05-31-2009, 03:25 AM
This scares me so much. I hate to see people get sick and don't get a definite diagnosis. It's the worst feeling in the world when doctors don't know what the hell is going on with you. That happened to me almost 2 years ago and the mental stress it puts on you can be too much to bear, and I don't have the pressure placed on me that Votto has. I feel so bad for him. He is now my favorite player no matter what happens because I know what he is going through. It's impossible to be optimistic with this because ear infections don't knock you out for this long. I did have a friend when I played in junior high who had an ear infection and missed two games because of headaches, but then he was back playing a week later. This is too serious to be an inner ear infection.

Lockdwn11
05-31-2009, 08:25 AM
This scares me so much. I hate to see people get sick and don't get a definite diagnosis. It's the worst feeling in the world when doctors don't know what the hell is going on with you. That happened to me almost 2 years ago and the mental stress it puts on you can be too much to bear, and I don't have the pressure placed on me that Votto has. I feel so bad for him. He is now my favorite player no matter what happens because I know what he is going through. It's impossible to be optimistic with this because ear infections don't knock you out for this long. I did have a friend when I played in junior high who had an ear infection and missed two games because of headaches, but then he was back playing a week later. This is too serious to be an inner ear infection.

Did you read the link it stated that do to his ear infection the symptoms could last 1-6 week or it my last for years. All we can do is hope Joey gets well soon and it was caught in time.

improbus
05-31-2009, 08:28 AM
Ok so I talked to someone close to the situation tonight. Not 100% so I'm not going to start a new thread or proclaim this is the end all of the situation, but Votto aparently has a vestibular disorder which is causing him major anxiety and suffering. This could be something that plagues him for quite some time and he might not be back before the All-Star break if at all.... there is no timetable as of right now. More as I hear it.
Yikes. I don't mean to disparage you or your "source", but I hope that isn't the case.

bounty37h
06-01-2009, 10:44 AM
Guess we shouldn't be locking him up anytime soon. If this is a lingering problem I really wouldn't want the Reds to commit themselves and then get burned.

Dont teams have some form of insurance policies on players, if a long term injury like this happens,tehy dont take a huge $ hit off it?

bounty37h
06-01-2009, 10:50 AM
Dizziness, heart racing, anxiety, not being able to center yourself....... couldn't have said it more to a "T" it is exactly what I experienced and it scared me to death at age 25

I am sure there are hundreds of ailments with those symptoms. I read them and immedialty thought Vertigo, which has hindered my mom with these same symptoms as well....Sure others here have many thoughts on it, and we might all be wrong. I dont care what it is, just hope he gets better, for himself first and formost of course...

bgwilly31
06-02-2009, 11:50 AM
Its hard to have much confidence in this team continueing to win when votto is out.

We need you Votto! Get well soon brother!:thumbup:

will5979
06-05-2009, 08:08 AM
What a great move by the Reds to place Votto on the DL when he services are needed greatly. They should have told him to suck it up and get his butt out there and play. Anxiety? This dude is a major league baseball player. Anxiety as an excuse to go on the DL? Looks like we may have the 2nd gimp in the making a la Ken Griffey Jr. Suck it up dude, your in the big league and if you can run with the big boys then get your keester outta there!

We are not gonna win if when the goin gets tough the wussies duck and run.

schmidty622
06-05-2009, 08:29 AM
In before the lock.

Seriously man, we really don't know what is going on with Votto. They say anxiety but maybe it's something more serious and medical related. I wouldn't want to put him in a situation on the field where he isn't 100%. That wouldn't be good for him, and it wouldn't be good for the Reds.

Also this treatment of Votto now might actually pay dividends for the Reds in the long term. If he knows that he is with an organization that looks out for the player, potentially at the expense of the team and the fans, he may be more likely to resign a long term deal at a more reasonable rate. Joey seems like a very loyal and smart guy, I think helping him through the tough times is only going to endear him more to the city and the team.

will5979
06-05-2009, 08:36 AM
Seriously man, we really don't know what is going on with Votto. They say anxiety but maybe it's something more serious and medical related. I wouldn't want to put him in a situation on the field where he isn't 100%. That wouldn't be good for him, and it wouldn't be good for the Reds.

I understand what you are saying.

What I can't figure out is that everytime he played through this "anxiety" he was still getting basehits, homeruns, and rbis. This is were I am dumbfounded.

CySeymour
06-05-2009, 09:32 AM
What a great move by the Reds to place Votto on the DL when he services are needed greatly. They should have told him to suck it up and get his butt out there and play. Anxiety? This dude is a major league baseball player. Anxiety as an excuse to go on the DL? Looks like we may have the 2nd gimp in the making a la Ken Griffey Jr. Suck it up dude, your in the big league and if you can run with the big boys then get your keester outta there!

We are not gonna win if when the goin gets tough the wussies duck and run.

Really?

If anything, it's Votto's passion to produce that may have caused this in the first place. But also, with his inner ear infection, he just wasn't able to fly. So, why not get it fixed now, so they can have him healthy for the rest of the season.

defender
06-05-2009, 12:54 PM
I would assume that the only way for him not to worry about getting back in the lineup, would be to be on the DL. Hopefully 15 days without any pressure, does the trick.

Ghosts of 1990
06-05-2009, 01:13 PM
At this point there's no promise that Votto will be back in 15 days, a month, or at all this season. I personally don't think we'll see him again in a meaningful part of this season. I think if he comes back it will be in late september. Whatever he is going through is something pretty serious. You can just tell if you read the clues out there. The Reds knew this was going to be a long road with Votto as Dusty Baker was visibly upset and concerned after their 45 minute meeting following the last game that Votto needed pulled out.

defender
06-05-2009, 01:44 PM
At this point there's no promise that Votto will be back in 15 days, a month, or at all this season. I personally don't think we'll see him again in a meaningful part of this season. I think if he comes back it will be in late september. Whatever he is going through is something pretty serious. You can just tell if you read the clues out there. The Reds knew this was going to be a long road with Votto as Dusty Baker was visibly upset and concerned after their 45 minute meeting following the last game that Votto needed pulled out.

You could be right. My post was supporting, putting him on the 15 day DL, and hoping that it will be all he needs. We have heard nothing that would inspire any optimism.