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Degenerate39
05-31-2009, 10:33 PM
Has there been any word on his return? With Votto out we could really use his bat as long as he's healthy.

Falls City Beer
05-31-2009, 10:36 PM
Has there been any word on his return? With Votto out we could really use his bat as long as he's healthy.

I read--I think in the updates thread--that he was at least a couple of weeks away.

Chip R
05-31-2009, 10:46 PM
Has there been any word on his return? With Votto out we could really use his bat as long as he's healthy.


Yeah, but his bat, glove and attitude was killing this team when he was playing.

RedEye
05-31-2009, 10:52 PM
Yeah, but his bat, glove and attitude was killing this team when he was playing.

Attitude?

Chip R
05-31-2009, 10:53 PM
Attitude?


Sure. He never smiles and he doesn't get mad when he strikes out so he must have a bad attitude.

LoganBuck
05-31-2009, 11:21 PM
Sure. He never smiles and he doesn't get mad when he strikes out so he must have a bad attitude.

I once saw him make an error, and he didn't even punch himself in the face with anger.

RedEye
05-31-2009, 11:58 PM
Sure. He never smiles and he doesn't get mad when he strikes out so he must have a bad attitude.

Ah, sorry. My sarcasm radar seems to be malfunctioning these days.

WVPacman
06-01-2009, 12:41 AM
Its just my opinion but I think EE has a long ways to go if he is even thinking about holding down the 3rd baseman spot.Almost every game I watch him play he just looks like he isn't having fun at all.I agree with Chip,his attitude is terrible and you never see no emotion coming from him.I swear I believe watching paint dry is more entertaining :D.I would like to see him start throwing his helmet,getting throwed out of a game,shoot get into a fight or something.;)

SMcGavin
06-01-2009, 12:55 AM
I once saw him make an error, and he didn't even punch himself in the face with anger.

In Edwin's defense, if he punched himself in the face every time he made an error his face would be one giant bruise. :)

reds44
06-01-2009, 01:41 AM
Rosales is currently posting a mean .693 OPS at 3rd base.

So much for him stealing Edwin's job. I wonder who the next candidate on "Reds fans want to replace EE" will be?

Mario-Rijo
06-01-2009, 01:55 AM
Rosales is currently posting a mean .693 OPS at 3rd base.

So much for him stealing Edwin's job. I wonder who the next candidate on "Reds fans want to replace EE" will be?

I don't think anyone here has said they want Rosales to replace Edwin. That is quickly becoming an urban myth.

reds44
06-01-2009, 01:58 AM
It was said by more than one person. I'm going to start a list of casualties of players trying to replace Edwin. The list grows by the day.

KronoRed
06-01-2009, 01:59 AM
Rosales is currently posting a mean .693 OPS at 3rd base.

So much for him stealing Edwin's job. I wonder who the next candidate on "Reds fans want to replace EE" will be?

You mean the next Ryan Freel/Jeff Keppinger/Adam Rosales? :thumbup:

reds44
06-01-2009, 02:00 AM
You mean the next Ryan Freel/Jeff Keppinger/Adam Rosales? :thumbup:
You forgot Narron's favorite, Rich Aurilia.

There's 4. Are we leaving anybody out?

KronoRed
06-01-2009, 02:17 AM
Jerry Hairston perhaps?

WMR
06-01-2009, 02:25 AM
More than a few espoused the idea of Juan Castro taking the reins from mister EE at the hot corner. Can't leave him out.

reds44
06-01-2009, 03:10 AM
Well done, boys. Well done. All are valid names.

wolfboy
06-01-2009, 09:42 AM
In Edwin's defense, if he punched himself in the face every time he made an error his face would be one giant bruise. :)

In his defense? Ouch.

TheNext44
06-02-2009, 03:15 AM
To be honest, I don't think you can say that Hairston has ever been considered a replacement for EE. Maybe someone said it, but I must have missed it.

However...

If someone did say it, they would be onto something.

First on defense, he has not played there enough to make any strong conclusions, but he does have a career UZR/150 of 5.6 in 160 innings, and a 14.5 UZR/150 this year at third. I know it's not the same but in the only infield position where he has enough innings to judge, he has a career UZR/150 of 5.3 at 2B over 4500 innings. This combined with seeing him play the infield lately as a Reds, makes it easy to say that he is a defensive upgrade over EE at 3B.

Now for offense. Since being injury free and a Reds, Hairston has put up these numbers:

120 games
455 PA's
13 HR's
52 RBI's
78 Runs
19 SB
4 CS
.303 BA
.361 OBP
.485 SLG
.846 SLG

Projected over 162 games the counting stats are:

18 HR's
70 RBI
105 runs
26 SB
5 CS

All those numbers are as good or better than EE's, even in SLG, where he beats EE .485 to .445. And 455 PA's is definitely enough to say that it is not a fluke, or a matter of a high BABIP or a high LD rate, or anything else. He may not be able to sustain it, but even if he slumps over the next 30 games, he's still about on par with EE on most key numbers.

In summary, Hairston, better defensively, and better offensively that EE, including more power.

If anyone is looking for a replacement for EE, I have a suggestion... :cool:

reds44
06-02-2009, 03:25 AM
If Hairston ever has a 70 RBI season for the Reds beers are on me.

/FCB

TheNext44
06-02-2009, 03:41 AM
If Hairston ever has a 70 RBI season for the Reds beers are on me.

/FCB

If he were batting 5-7 in the lineup and played in 150 games, I think he would. Hairston is on pace to score 100+ runs if he plays 130 games or more. I'll buy the beers if EE ever scores 100 runs in a season.

I actually like EE and can't wait for him to get back and be a sorely needed power RH bat in the lineup. I can even deal with his defense... almost. And I like Hairston best as the supersub, filling in for everyone else and getting 500 PA's doing it.

I'm just making the point, that if someone were looking to replace him, Hairston looks like he could be the guy.

Ron Madden
06-02-2009, 03:57 AM
To be honest, I don't think you can say that Hairston has ever been considered a replacement for EE. Maybe someone said it, but I must have missed it.

However...

If someone did say it, they would be onto something.

In summary, Hairston, better defensively, and better offensively that EE, including more power.

If anyone is looking for a replacement for EE, I have a suggestion... :cool:


Thanks but no thanks. Gimme EE over JHJ.

Going out on a limb here, I'll take Edwin and you can have JHJ.

We'll compare offensive numbers at the end of their careers.

WMR
06-02-2009, 04:10 AM
Thanks but no thanks. Gimme EE over JHJ.

Going out on a limb here, I'll take Edwin and you can have JHJ.

We'll compare offensive numbers at the end of their careers.

+1.

I feel fairly certain that EE's career numbers will end up eclipsing JHJ by a large margin.

Also, there's no way JHJ's body could withstand the rigors of 3B on a daily basis.

Ron Madden
06-02-2009, 04:17 AM
+1.

I feel fairly certain that EE's career numbers will end up eclipsing JHJ by a large margin.

Also, there's no way JHJ's body could withstand the rigors of 3B on a daily basis.

I'd like to see Dusty pencil EE into the number two hole in the lineup for a week or two and see what happens.

:beerme:

Jpup
06-02-2009, 08:29 AM
You won't find many people that enjoy watching Hairston play more than me, but the idea that he has more power and would put up the numbers of Edwin is a little insane.

Degenerate39
06-02-2009, 09:55 AM
I can't wait till Frazier is in the big leagues so the Reds won't have to fool with Edwin anymore. I'm not the biggest fan of Edwin but the Reds could really use him right now. In the future probably not as much when you have Frazier and Fransisco waiting.

Rojo
06-02-2009, 03:41 PM
What do you do with a problem like Edwin?

The "X amount of offense makes up for X minus amount of defense" equation doesn't work for me unless the guy just KILLS with the bat. An .850 bat needs to meet a defensive threshold, EdE isn't doing it.

The last 10 World Champs' thirdbasemen:

2008: Pedro Feliz (.705)
2007: Mike Lowell (.879)
2006: Scott Rolen (.887)
2005: Joe Crede (.756)
2004: Bill Mueller (.811)
2003: Mike Lowell (.811)
2002: Troy Glaus (.805)
2001: Matt Williams (.780)
2000: Scott Brosius (.673)
1999: Scott Brosius (.722)

Lowell and Rolen were the only real sluggers but they were all solid defensively.

Chip R
06-02-2009, 04:12 PM
What do you do with a problem like Edwin?

The "X amount of offense makes up for X minus amount of defense" equation doesn't work for me unless the guy just KILLS with the bat. An .850 bat needs to meet a defensive threshold, EdE isn't doing it.

The last 10 World Champs' thirdbasemen:

2008: Pedro Feliz (.705)
2007: Mike Lowell (.879)
2006: Scott Rolen (.887)
2005: Joe Crede (.756)
2004: Bill Mueller (.811)
2003: Mike Lowell (.811)
2002: Troy Glaus (.805)
2001: Matt Williams (.780)
2000: Scott Brosius (.673)
1999: Scott Brosius (.722)

Lowell and Rolen were the only real sluggers but they were all solid defensively.


I'm all for replacing Edwin with someone who can pick it and has a good bat. I'd just like to know who that is and where he's going to come from.

Kc61
06-02-2009, 04:30 PM
+1.

I feel fairly certain that EE's career numbers will end up eclipsing JHJ by a large margin.

.

Another allusion to JHJ's lifetime statistics. They are irrelevant. They are historical, past numbers that indicate JHJ's performance in other circumstances, for other teams.

He has had enough of a body of work in the last two years as a Red to evaluate JHJ now. And I think he has shown that he is a starting caliber player for the Reds.

Depending upon the particular year, either EE or Hairston could put up better offensive numbers. EE certainly has potential to hit more homers and get more walks. So give him an edge, although not a huge edge.

But if EE keeps making throwing errors when he returns, all of that will be a moot point. The Reds cannot afford that type of play at any position. He has to play better defense or JHJ -- or a host of other guys -- will be better third base candidates.

traderumor
06-02-2009, 04:32 PM
JHJ is a valuable member of the Reds and has contributed since he put on our uniform. But, depending on him as an everyday player anywhere is what scares me. He is really a bench player that is so versatile that he almost seems like a starter because of injuries.

alexad
06-02-2009, 04:42 PM
IS EE Still on the roster? I have to admit I really have not missed him much since his injury.

Mario-Rijo
06-02-2009, 04:59 PM
It was said by more than one person. I'm going to start a list of casualties of players trying to replace Edwin. The list grows by the day.

Ok ya got me 2-3 people may have said it, not enough to make a big stink over IMO.

TRF
06-02-2009, 05:04 PM
Another allusion to JHJ's lifetime statistics. They are irrelevant. They are historical, past numbers that indicate JHJ's performance in other circumstances, for other teams.

He has had enough of a body of work in the last two years as a Red to evaluate JHJ now. And I think he has shown that he is a starting caliber player for the Reds.

Depending upon the particular year, either EE or Hairston could put up better offensive numbers. EE certainly has potential to hit more homers and get more walks. So give him an edge, although not a huge edge.

But if EE keeps making throwing errors when he returns, all of that will be a moot point. The Reds cannot afford that type of play at any position. He has to play better defense or JHJ -- or a host of other guys -- will be better third base candidates.

JHJ's health is not irrelevant. It in large part caused his career to spral into the toilet. Even his career year, which was last year by the way, was marred by injuries.

Again, EE's best year defensively was 2007, when he had AGon beside him for most of the season. I don't think that is a coincidence.

Rojo
06-02-2009, 05:18 PM
I'm all for replacing Edwin with someone who can pick it and has a good bat. I'd just like to know who that is and where he's going to come from.

I don't either -- I'm not sold on Rosales or JHJ. My point is that settling on a sub-par bat might not be the end of the world.

Chip R
06-02-2009, 05:31 PM
I don't either -- I'm not sold on Rosales or JHJ. My point is that settling on a sub-par bat might not be the end of the world.


True. But the Reds really can't afford to have too many sub-par bats in the lineup.

fearofpopvol1
06-02-2009, 05:34 PM
Despite what Reds44 has claimed, Aurilia was pretty good for the Reds at 3B.

GAC
06-02-2009, 06:01 PM
It was said by more than one person. I'm going to start a list of casualties of players trying to replace Edwin. The list grows by the day.

True. But there wouldn't be these rumors and attempts (by fans) to "replace" the guy if he simply started living up to expectations of him. And I don't think those expectations have been out of bounds either.

Big Klu
06-02-2009, 06:12 PM
Despite what Reds44 has claimed, Aurilia was pretty good for the Reds at 3B.

I agree. During Rich Aurilia's last year with the Reds, he was needed primarily at 1B and SS, but he did a good job at all four INF positions. He was never really in direct competition with Edwin for a starting position, but if he had been, I would have liked his chances. Aurilia chose to leave the Reds and go back "home" to San Francisco. If he hadn't, he probably would have remained a key member of the offense.

Ron Madden
06-03-2009, 03:54 AM
I agree. During Rich Aurilia's last year with the Reds, he was needed primarily at 1B and SS, but he did a good job at all four INF positions. He was never really in direct competition with Edwin for a starting position, but if he had been, I would have liked his chances. Aurilia chose to leave the Reds and go back "home" to San Francisco. If he hadn't, he probably would have remained a key member of the offense.

Rich Aurilia went out and stood at all four INF positions.

When the Giants realised Aurilia had the range of a horseshoe peg and no plate discipline what so ever they benched him.

Boss-Hog
06-03-2009, 10:22 AM
Again, EE's best year defensively was 2007, when he had AGon beside him for most of the season. I don't think that is a coincidence.

Since Edwin's defensive problems have always primarily been throwing related (though defensive metrics will tell you his range is below average, at best), I don't really buy that.

TRF
06-03-2009, 11:04 AM
Since Edwin's defensive problems have always primarily been throwing related (though defensive metrics will tell you his range is below average, at best), I don't really buy that.

Yet the statement is true, it was his best year.

I think it's a comfort thing. Look we know from interviews with Dusty that EE is a soft spoken guy, probably an introvert. He's had dreck next to him for most of his career, but for one season he had a guy to his left that was decent defensively and spoke the same language. He also had Juan Castro helping him with his footwork. Castro is going to be a MLB coach someday.

It's just my opinion. I'm not there, I'm not in the clubhouse, but interviews, accounts and circumstances have lead me to this conclusion.

Eric_the_Red
06-03-2009, 11:18 AM
Since EE defensive problems are usually whwen throwing the ball, what do you think of playing him at 1B if Votto is going to be out for any length of time? This would allow RH to move back to catcher, and give JHJ some time starting at 3B.

Rojo
06-03-2009, 01:49 PM
Since EE defensive problems are usually whwen throwing the ball, what do you think of playing him at 1B if Votto is going to be out for any length of time? This would allow RH to move back to catcher, and give JHJ some time starting at 3B.

I think you're on to something.

Orenda
06-03-2009, 02:30 PM
Despite what Reds44 has claimed, Aurilia was pretty good for the Reds at 3B.

He was also able to bring the reds a compensation pick which turned into Todd Frazier

Brutus
06-03-2009, 02:33 PM
Since EE defensive problems are usually whwen throwing the ball, what do you think of playing him at 1B if Votto is going to be out for any length of time? This would allow RH to move back to catcher, and give JHJ some time starting at 3B.

I also think this is a terrific idea. I just hope they can continue to find at-bats for Hanigan. As good as Hernandez has been, Hanigan has been pretty good also.

Boss-Hog
06-03-2009, 03:16 PM
Yet the statement is true, it was his best year.

I think it's a comfort thing. Look we know from interviews with Dusty that EE is a soft spoken guy, probably an introvert. He's had dreck next to him for most of his career, but for one season he had a guy to his left that was decent defensively and spoke the same language. He also had Juan Castro helping him with his footwork. Castro is going to be a MLB coach someday.

It's just my opinion. I'm not there, I'm not in the clubhouse, but interviews, accounts and circumstances have lead me to this conclusion.
I agree that the statement is true (2007 was his best year defensively, statistically), but there's nothing aside from a hunch to prove that was the reason why.

TRF
06-03-2009, 03:28 PM
I agree that the statement is true (2007 was his best year defensively, statistically), but there's nothing aside from a hunch to prove that was the reason why.


hence the just my opinion part. Which many of the statements made here are... opinion. But I am basing it on a lot of written and spoken accounts, and a few facts.

In 2006, prior to "The Trade" Castro was working with FeLo on his footwork and positioning. His defense was improving. In 2007, he was working with EE, and the same thing happened. The comfort level with AGon as the SS is just a guess.

OUReds
06-03-2009, 03:40 PM
Yet the statement is true, it was his best year.

What are you basing this on?

UZR/150

2006 -13.1 (range -2.1 errors -7.4)
2007 -14.4 (range -11.6 errors -.1)
2008 -12.1 (range -5.4 errors -4.8)

Consistently terrible results, just in different ways.

TheNext44
06-03-2009, 03:59 PM
+1.

I feel fairly certain that EE's career numbers will end up eclipsing JHJ by a large margin.

Also, there's no way JHJ's body could withstand the rigors of 3B on a daily basis.

One thing that needs to be realized is that EE will be replaced by someone, either Valaika, Frazier or Francisco in 2011 or maybe even 2010.

Hairston needs only to hold down the position until then. I think his body can handle 3B on an everyday basis for a season and a half. And if not, Rosales can easily fill in for any time off that Hairston needs.

And I could care less what their career numbers are, I think that Hairston can match or better EE's offensive production and blow away his defense.

I still like EE as the starting 3B, and using Hairston as the utility guy. But if EE can't come back from his injury, or continues his defensive woes, I would have no problem putting Hairston in at 3B until one of the young guys is ready.

Ron Madden
06-04-2009, 04:34 AM
One thing that needs to be realized is that EE will be replaced by someone, either Valaika, Frazier or Francisco in 2011 or maybe even 2010.

Hairston needs only to hold down the position until then. I think his body can handle 3B on an everyday basis for a season and a half. And if not, Rosales can easily fill in for any time off that Hairston needs.

And I could care less what their career numbers are, I think that Hairston can match or better EE's offensive production and blow away his defense.

I still like EE as the starting 3B, and using Hairston as the utility guy. But if EE can't come back from his injury, or continues his defensive woes, I would have no problem putting Hairston in at 3B until one of the young guys is ready.

I honestly hope you're right about JHJ staying healthy for a season and a half but I really doubt that ever happens. We'll see.

Team Clark
06-04-2009, 06:10 AM
Well done, boys. Well done. All are valid names.

Don't forget the Wily Mo and Austin Kearns experiments! :thumbup:

Team Clark
06-04-2009, 06:19 AM
+1.

I feel fairly certain that EE's career numbers will end up eclipsing JHJ by a large margin.

Also, there's no way JHJ's body could withstand the rigors of 3B on a daily basis.

I too wonder about JHJ being able to withstand playing regularly. He's due for another tweak or pull.

traderumor
06-04-2009, 11:11 AM
EE is either going to come back and rake or he is going to be a part of a mid-season deal if he continues to struggle. I would say its decision time on him. But it has been nice to see the consistency of Rosales and Hairston defensively in his absence. I would not be the most surprised person if he is dealt this summer.

camisadelgolf
06-04-2009, 11:15 AM
I can't wait till Frazier is in the big leagues so the Reds won't have to fool with Edwin anymore. I'm not the biggest fan of Edwin but the Reds could really use him right now. In the future probably not as much when you have Frazier and Fransisco waiting.
Frazier is a left fielder. The Reds' best 3B prospect is Nefi Soto, a 20-year-old Puerto Rican who is playing in the FSL.

cincrazy
06-04-2009, 01:03 PM
Buster Olney of espn.com noted in his blog this morning that the Reds are looking for a 3rd baseman. It was a very general statement, he didn't give any names or teams they were talking to, but I find that VERY interesting. Edwin's time with the Reds seems to be coming to an end.

medford
06-04-2009, 01:32 PM
I think the thing to take away from Reds Fan wanting to replace EE w/ the latest flavor has less to do w/ whomever the latest flavor is, and more to do with wanting to replace EE. I think some off EE's offense gets lost to the average fan b/c is seems (going off memory, prove me wrong if I am) that much of EE's offense has been generated late in the season the last couple of years when the team was more or less out of it. He also tends to be a bit streaky in general, which probably makes some/many overlook his production when he's on, and focus on the slumps when he's off. On top of that, his defense has been less than average during his tenure.

I'm guessing most fans realize Rosalez isn't the long term issue, nor were the other names mentioned, but most probably were hoping for a stop gap answer to a long term solution thru either trade or free agency. At the end of his career, I'm guessing EE will go down as a solid major leaguer, but not one that anyone will remember long term as a key ingrediant to any success. His defense has been easy to pick on, and leads to the average fan as any easy bullet point on why the reds have failed the last decade.

medford
06-04-2009, 01:35 PM
At any rate, I'm looking forward to Edwin's return and hope he can solidify the 3B going foward. I'd like to have Rosalez off the bench but the team probably needs Janish for his defense off the bench more than they need Adam's versatility.

OnBaseMachine
06-04-2009, 08:21 PM
In other news, 3B Edwin Encarnacion could be close to heading out on a rehab assignment. Encarnacion was headed out to take another round on batting practice and has had no pain.

"When we get back home, they'll check and see to where they can send me," Encarnacion said. "When they say I'm ready, we'll see where I am going to go. I am very excited. Now I know I can play. I feel no pain. I'm ready to go."

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/