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View Full Version : Brandon Phillips Takes a Swing at Adam Dunn?



reds44
06-04-2009, 12:48 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3abef135c3-1fd2-43b3-b05e-d911a4c11321&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com



“He’s underrated,” Phillips said. “It’s all about a guy getting a chance. He's a great teammate . . . It’s good to have a guy in left field who can hit and catch the ball.”


JESUS

OnBaseMachine
06-04-2009, 12:49 AM
I like Brandon Phillips a lot, but that's unnecessary, IMO.

CTA513
06-04-2009, 12:49 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3abef135c3-1fd2-43b3-b05e-d911a4c11321&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com



JESUS

People shouldn't be surprised.

Degenerate39
06-04-2009, 12:51 AM
That's just a stupid thing to say in public. I don't know what Adam Dunn did to everyone in Cincinnati to deserve swipes like this from his former teammates and the people in the radio booth.

Homer Bailey
06-04-2009, 12:58 AM
I'm guessing this is a quote that sounds a lot worse on paper than it was meant to sound. I think he's more refferring to the fact that Nix is a very solid 2 way player more than it is a shot at Dunn. I don't see anything here, and I am far from a BP apologist.

johngalt
06-04-2009, 12:59 AM
Why are we all up in arms about this? Because of the tone of how he said it?

Since the day guys first reported to Sarasota, everyone from Dusty Baker to Walt Jocketty to Aaron Harang to David Weathers has talked about how they felt one of the club's big improvements was going to be outfield defense. Having guys get to more balls, fewer balls falling in for hits.

Brandon Phillips is hardly the first person to say what he said.

KronoRed
06-04-2009, 01:00 AM
Someone needs to let it go and act like an adult.

KoryMac5
06-04-2009, 01:01 AM
First Arroyo and now Brandon makes me think that Dunn wasn't the most popular person in the Reds clubhouse last season.

reds44
06-04-2009, 01:02 AM
I wasn't all up and arms about it, I actually thought it was kind of funny. I have no problem with somebody bringing some swag and attitude to the team. I'm not looking to win any popularity awards, just ballgames.

thatcoolguy_22
06-04-2009, 01:04 AM
Someone needs to let it go and act like an adult.

http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Saints/Authors/Quotes/Quotes-FamousVegetarians_files/rogers.jpg

This guy? Its just an ape Krono. ;)




Nothing new to see here. I don't think BP meant anything by the comment other than Nix is solid in the field as well as the bat. But even if he did... (i keed i keed)

WVPacman
06-04-2009, 01:05 AM
BP,would be alot more liked by the fans of Cincy if he would just keep his mouth shut which will never happen.

reds44
06-04-2009, 01:07 AM
BP,would be alot more liked by the fans of Cincy if he would just keep his mouth shut which will never happen.
BP isn't well liked by Reds fans? At this point there's no reason not to like Brandon Phillips. He took a shot at somebody who is no longer on the team. Big deal.

TheNext44
06-04-2009, 01:07 AM
Dumb thing to say, but not the first nor the worst for Phillips.

I think we here are more upset by it than Dunn, who I have a feeling is laughing about it right now.

johngalt
06-04-2009, 01:07 AM
I wasn't all up and arms about it, I actually thought it was kind of funny. I have no problem with somebody bringing some swag and attitude to the team. I'm not looking to win any popularity awards, just ballgames.

My bad. When you put "JESUS" after the link and quote, I just took that to mean you were thinking "who the hell does this guy think he is."

I totally agree about bringing the attitude and desire to win. Brandon's not the most popular guy on the team either, but you know he's there to win. On the flip side, Dunn was liked by a lot of guys as a person and got along with people, but you can tell guys like Phillips, Arroyo, etc. didn't have as much respect for him as a competitor when it came to wanting to win.

johngalt
06-04-2009, 01:11 AM
BP,would be alot more liked by the fans of Cincy if he would just keep his mouth shut which will never happen.

The vast majority of Reds fans love Brandon Phillips. That's not even a debate.

The main pockets of people who don't are those who get personally offended if a player doesn't subscribe to the Rosales doctrine of sprinting everywhere on a diamond or the people who can't get over the fact that he's an unabashed free swinger at the plate and will always have an OBP that's not to their liking.

CTA513
06-04-2009, 01:13 AM
Dumb thing to say, but not the first nor the worst for Phillips.

I think we here are more upset by it than Dunn, who I have a feeling is laughing about it right now.

We'll find out next week when the Reds play the Nationals.

reds44
06-04-2009, 01:14 AM
My bad. When you put "JESUS" after the link and quote, I just took that to mean you were thinking "who the hell does this guy think he is."

I totally agree about bringing the attitude and desire to win. Brandon's not the most popular guy on the team either, but you know he's there to win. On the flip side, Dunn was liked by a lot of guys as a person and got along with people, but you can tell guys like Phillips, Arroyo, etc. didn't have as much respect for him as a competitor when it came to wanting to win.
I was just surprised he actually said it more than anything.

corkedbat
06-04-2009, 01:17 AM
The vast majority of Reds fans love Brandon Phillips. That's not even a debate.

The main pockets of people who don't are those who get personally offended if a player doesn't subscribe to the Rosales doctrine of sprinting everywhere on a diamond or the people who can't get over the fact that he's an unabashed free swinger at the plate and will always have an OBP that's not to their liking.

Meh

reds44
06-04-2009, 01:19 AM
The vast majority of Reds fans love Brandon Phillips. That's not even a debate.

The main pockets of people who don't are those who get personally offended if a player doesn't subscribe to the Rosales doctrine of sprinting everywhere on a diamond or the people who can't get over the fact that he's an unabashed free swinger at the plate and will always have an OBP that's not to their liking.
I think i would have worded the OBP part a bit differently, but this pretty much hit the nail on the head.

BrooklynRedz
06-04-2009, 01:20 AM
I'm not reading anything into this statement. Simply big-upping Nix for a big performance.

Besides, if you absolutely HAD to decode, what makes you think this isn't directed at Dickerson (or Hairston to a lesser degree)?

Brutus
06-04-2009, 01:25 AM
I'm not seeing the big deal here. There's nothing to say this was any kind of a shot toward Adam Dunn, but rather simple praise for Laynce Nix.

If, by chance, there was a subtle jab there (and again, a lot of context is needed to make that claim), it needs to be considered that the possibility exists Dunn was not respected as much in the clubhouse as he has been on Redszone.com. His perceived lackadaisical attitude by fans might have been personified and amplified by those that played with him on a daily basis. Just sayin'

In any event, I go back to point A. I don't really think this was a jab. If it was, sure was not much of one. Not enough to get worked up about.

WVPacman
06-04-2009, 01:30 AM
BP isn't well liked by Reds fans? At this point there's no reason not to like Brandon Phillips. He took a shot at somebody who is no longer on the team. Big deal.


Hell I like BP and always will and I did'nt say he was'nt well liked... I said he would be liked even more if he would keep his mouth shut.

Brutus
06-04-2009, 01:39 AM
Hell I like BP and always will and I did'nt say he was'nt well liked... I said he would be liked even more if he would keep his mouth shut.

You are probably right. He probably would be more liked. However...

I'm someone that finds honesty refreshing. I personally never cared much for political correctness. Mean what you say and say what you mean. That's what I was always taught. Kudos to Brandon Phillips for being honest. In a world of PR, insincere apologies and celebrities that carry on a fake persona, I prefer the brash but sincere folk like Phillips.

CTA513
06-04-2009, 01:46 AM
You are probably right. He probably would be more liked. However...

I'm someone that finds honesty refreshing. I personally never cared much for political correctness. Mean what you say and say what you mean. That's what I was always taught. Kudos to Brandon Phillips for being honest. In a world of PR, insincere apologies and celebrities that carry on a fake persona, I prefer the brash but sincere folk like Phillips.

If he was taking a shot at Dunn (not sure if he was) then why wait until hes gone to do so? same with Arroyo.

reds44
06-04-2009, 02:37 AM
If he was taking a shot at Dunn (not sure if he was) then why wait until hes gone to do so? same with Arroyo.
I understand the thoughts say something to his face rather than when he is gone, but do you really want teammates openly ripping each other? For the sake of the team, I'd much rather them do it to an ex teammate.

Ron Madden
06-04-2009, 02:52 AM
Maybe Brandon was just giving Nix some Kudos. Maybe the local media saw another chance to rail on Dunn. Who Knows?


:confused:

Degenerate39
06-04-2009, 02:57 AM
If he was taking a shot at Dunn (not sure if he was) then why wait until hes gone to do so? same with Arroyo.

Dunn's a big dude. He could probably take Arroyo and Phillips at the same time

TheNext44
06-04-2009, 03:10 AM
Dunn's a big dude. He could probably take Arroyo and Phillips at the same time

I'd pay to see that. Sounds better than anything WWE has had lately.

Topcat
06-04-2009, 03:11 AM
BP,would be alot more liked by the fans of Cincy if he would just keep his mouth shut which will never happen.

He stated an actual fact! If Dunn fans take it as a shot at him defend how what Brandon stated is wrong ?

Screwball
06-04-2009, 03:23 AM
Dumb thing to say


No, it really wasn't. He was giving kudos to his teammate. Whether that's a perceived slight towards a player on a different team is really others' problem. I doubt the ones in the clubhouse (those that actually matter) would think it was a "dumb thing to say". In fact, they'd probably echo Brandon's sentiments.

Degenerate39
06-04-2009, 03:25 AM
He stated an actual fact! If Dunn fans take it as a shot at him defend how what Brandon stated is wrong ?

Dunn wasn't a good defender but that's not he problem in Cincinnati anymore. Why should Phillips, Arroyo, Marty, etc continue to take swings at the guy? They should all let it go.

reds44
06-04-2009, 04:32 AM
Dunn wasn't a good defender but that's not he problem in Cincinnati anymore. Why should Phillips, Arroyo, Marty, etc continue to take swings at the guy? They should all let it go.
Does it really matter?

icehole3
06-04-2009, 04:43 AM
Im sure Brandon didnt just walk up to the reporter and say that, he was asked a question and yes the reporter got what he wanted, I guess Brandon shouldve said no comment, then people here would say, "what does he mean by no comment."

Team Clark
06-04-2009, 05:01 AM
Why are we all up in arms about this? Because of the tone of how he said it?

Since the day guys first reported to Sarasota, everyone from Dusty Baker to Walt Jocketty to Aaron Harang to David Weathers has talked about how they felt one of the club's big improvements was going to be outfield defense. Having guys get to more balls, fewer balls falling in for hits.

Brandon Phillips is hardly the first person to say what he said.

I second that. This is not "new" news! The defense in LF is better than years past. Ok... Great. Nix just had a big game. Give the guy some props. Next. :thumbup:

mth123
06-04-2009, 05:35 AM
This is much ado about nothing. Kudos for Nix, which is well deserved IMO and the intent of Phillips remark I'd guess.

As far as Dunn goes, I'm a big fan and his defense was pretty far down the list of things wrong with this team during his tenure in Cincy. Heck last year the team usually had worse defenders at 4 other spots (RF, SS, C, 3B). The defense is well improved in 2009, but LF isn't the only place nor is it the place with the most improvement at this point. I'd say bigger gains have been made in RF, SS, C and, at least for now, 3B.

TheNext44
06-04-2009, 06:17 AM
He stated an actual fact! If Dunn fans take it as a shot at him defend how what Brandon stated is wrong ?

It is an actual fact that my girlfriend's new jeans make her ass look fat. I would not be wrong if I said it out loud to her. But I know better.

hebroncougar
06-04-2009, 06:29 AM
He may have been taking a swipe at McDonald. I'm sure the guys in the clubhouse knew he didn't belong.

Eric_the_Red
06-04-2009, 06:32 AM
"It’s good to have a guy in left field who can hit and catch the ball."

Wow, shocking. What if *gasp!* BP says something like "It's good to have a pitching staff that gives up less runs than in the past." The horror!!!

Screwball
06-04-2009, 07:05 AM
It is an actual fact that my girlfriend's new jeans make her ass look fat. I would not be wrong if I said it out loud to her. But I know better.

Nah dude, that's not it. It'd be like telling your current girlfriend she looks a lot better in jeans than your old girlfriend did (let's pretend your current girlfriend's ass wasn't, in fact, fat ;)).

I doubt your buddies would then be like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, Next. Just what would your ex think about that compliment to your current gf??"

lollipopcurve
06-04-2009, 07:05 AM
The spin on this quote is giving me vertigo.

Wait, was that a swipe at Joey Votto? You tell me!

Phillips is playing his butt off the last few weeks, and playing hard with an injury. Maybe we should take whatever he says in that context -- the guy wants the team to win.

RANDY IN INDY
06-04-2009, 07:37 AM
Phillips, obviously, takes a lot of pride in his overall game and I think defense is something that matters to him, a lot. I think he appreciates what he has seen from Nix in leftfield, both offensively and defensively. Nothing wrong with that. If people can't handle what he said, looks like it is their problem. Phillips wants to win and I think he knows that this team has to play it's tail off, both offensively and defensively to do that. Nix made a great play, a great throw, and had a great game offensively last night. It is great to have a guy out there that can hit and catch the ball. It helped win the game last night and to me, that's all that matters.

Strikes Out Looking
06-04-2009, 08:04 AM
Dunn's a big dude. He could probably take Arroyo and Phillips at the same time

Or he'd swing and miss. . .(rimshot).

RedlegJake
06-04-2009, 08:28 AM
Or he'd swing and miss. . .(rimshot).

That made me laugh.

Seriously, this is way overblown. BP was praising Nix not running down Dunn. Even if he was, the statement was pretty factual. I'm not arguing this which has been done ad infinitum but I'm in the camp that thinks the Reds improved when Dunn left.

Edskin
06-04-2009, 08:41 AM
I agree with the crew that leans more towards this being an innocent praise for Nix rather than a shot at Dunn.

However, since it's been brought up, I do believe that Dunn is not nearly as respected inside the clubhouse as he is on RZ. Doesn't mean he isn't a nice person, but IF (and I say "if" because I don't know) Dunn did NOT push himself to the max physically or mentally, then that is going to garner resentment from teammates.

RANDY IN INDY
06-04-2009, 08:53 AM
I tend to agree with you, Edskin, but you just set yourself up on a tee with that last statement.

durl
06-04-2009, 08:55 AM
I have to admit that the first time I read the statement, it never occurred to me that he was getting a dig in at Dunn.

But with Phillips, you never know. During interviews he seems to open his mouth and whatever pops in his head comes out. You never know if he's saying something inadvertently or if he doesn't have the self-control to restrain himself from making a dig.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2009, 08:57 AM
First Arroyo and now Brandon makes me think that Dunn wasn't the most popular person in the Reds clubhouse last season.

Or maybe it's the fact that sports fans have grown used to players having to be politically correct all the time. Brandon & Bronson just say what they think. Right or wrong...I find it kind of refreshing.

kaldaniels
06-04-2009, 09:02 AM
Funny thing is...I thought another quote from BP was taken out of context recently. Did anyone catch Hal's blog/artice where BP says Votto was the best hitter on the team. To which Hal stated, that must mean that BP thinks someone else is the best player. I thought that was out of bounds by Hal, unless he is withholding more details. I can find the article and will post the link shortly on this post.

membengal
06-04-2009, 09:07 AM
He may have been taking a swipe at McDonald. I'm sure the guys in the clubhouse knew he didn't belong.

Gotta say, I thought he was talking about McDonald as well when I first read this. Not everything is about Dunn. Just sayin'.

oneupper
06-04-2009, 09:10 AM
If Brandon Phillips continues to OPS .900+, as far as I'm concerned, he can say whatever he wants.

RANDY IN INDY
06-04-2009, 09:12 AM
Not everything is about Dunn. Just sayin'.

Refreshing comment and right on the money, membengal! He ain't a Red anymore.

kaldaniels
06-04-2009, 09:14 AM
Funny thing is...I thought another quote from BP was taken out of context recently. Did anyone catch Hal's blog/artice where BP says Votto was the best hitter on the team. To which Hal stated, that must mean that BP thinks someone else is the best player. I thought that was out of bounds by Hal, unless he is withholding more details. I can find the article and will post the link shortly on this post.

Apologies to Hal...it was actually Paul Doc who wrote that. Here it is. (On page 2)

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090531/COL03/305310037/1007/SPT/Without+Votto++Reds+are+stressed

"Jay Bruce needs to take up where his friend has left off. Brandon Phillips told me last week that Votto was the “best hitter” on the team, the inference being someone else was the best player overall. That “overall best player” needs to hit in June the way he hit in May."

RANDY IN INDY
06-04-2009, 09:14 AM
Brayndon praising Laynce. I like it.

Mainspark
06-04-2009, 09:33 AM
Nothing to see here.
I'm not certain the comment was an pre-meditated bid to criticize Adam Dunn's poor defensive skills.
And even if it was, I am certain that Adam Dunn couldn't care less at this point.

medford
06-04-2009, 09:33 AM
I often wonder why Dunn/Kearns are held in such high regard here. Granted, I liked Dunn's power and batting eye, and once upon a time Kearns potential but neither were exactly the perfect player, and even if it wasn't their fault, its not like either lead the team to multiple WS titles.

How do we know he was refferring to Dunn? Perhaps it was directed towards Bruce and his slumping bat, or perhaps towards Wily T and his poor play the night before, or heck even towards Nix misplay in LF the night before. Perhaps he was referring to McDonald (who rarely played by the way), but if he was referring to Dunn, so what? He's not walking thru that door, its time to move on, most of all, Bradon was likely just giving props to the guy that not only hit two home runs, but also made a great defensive play. Stating that its nice to have someone out there that can both hit and play defense means little more that. To read in to it otherwise is your problem, not Brandon's.

Tommyjohn25
06-04-2009, 10:26 AM
Wow wow wow wow. I have been coming here for a long time. I have to say I have never, EVER, seen something so trite and meaningless blown out of proportion. All he did was compliment Nix on possibly the best game of his career. IMO he wasn't ragging on ANYONE, much less someone who isn't even on the team anymore. Man, sometimes I think if I posted on here that the waffles I had this morning didn't taste all that great, it would be taken as a knock on Dunn.

Degenerate39
06-04-2009, 10:31 AM
Does it really matter?

There wouldn't be a thread about it otherwise I guess.

CrackerJack
06-04-2009, 10:31 AM
Sure he wasn't referring to McDonald?

Chip R
06-04-2009, 10:33 AM
I thought he was talking about Wily Mo.

kaldaniels
06-04-2009, 10:37 AM
I'd like to see the title of this thread changed. My opinion follows.

1) "Takes a swing"? More like a jab/poke/slight/etc. if in fact he was referring to Dunn. Seems a bit overdramatic.

2) Was he in fact referring to Dunn? No one knows.

3) No sense bringing the Dunn-defenders-to-the-death out of the woodwork to argue if it is not necessary.

4) I don't even see the problem. If Johnny Cueto makes a big strikeout and someone says, "its nice to have a pitcher who can get a strikeout in a big situtation" its pretty much same thing. This forum seems always on edge about Dunn and any comment regarding LF and defense strikes a nerve it seems.

traderumor
06-04-2009, 10:39 AM
Wow wow wow wow. I have been coming here for a long time. I have to say I have never, EVER, seen something so trite and meaningless blown out of proportion.You must not visit frequently enough then ;)

Chip R
06-04-2009, 10:42 AM
You must not visit frequently enough then ;)


With that comment and the one about how the ORG loves Tony LaRussa there must be a Bizarro RZ out there.

westofyou
06-04-2009, 10:43 AM
http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Saints/Authors/Quotes/Quotes-FamousVegetarians_files/rogers.jpg

This guy? Its just an ape Krono. ;)




So.. Fred goes into the cage with Koko and what we don't see is she wants him to take his sweater off and tries to get him to do it.

She loved men and also tried to get William Shatners sweater off.

Chip R
06-04-2009, 10:52 AM
She loved men and also tried to get William Shatners sweater off.


It'd probably fit Koko better. ;)

HeatherC1212
06-04-2009, 11:03 AM
The only people making reference to Dunn are the baseball writers out there who are interpreting Brandon's statement in their own way. I wouldn't have gotten anything more out of his statement other than him complimenting Nix if the writers weren't putting extra words out there for their stories. I agree that this is much ado about nothing. *shrugs*

SMcGavin
06-04-2009, 11:03 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090531/COL03/305310037/1007/SPT/Without+Votto++Reds+are+stressed

"Jay Bruce needs to take up where his friend has left off. Brandon Phillips told me last week that Votto was the “best hitter” on the team, the inference being someone else was the best player overall. That “overall best player” needs to hit in June the way he hit in May."

The original quote in this thread doesn't seem like that big of a deal, though it would be nice to see Phillips grow up and let it go.

That quote about how BP is the best player on the team and not Votto is a much bigger deal since he's talking about a current teammate. Especially since it was said during a stretch where Votto was crushing the ball and carrying this team - but BP had to interject and make sure the reporter knows he is still the best player on the team. Great leadership right there Brandon.

Tommyjohn25
06-04-2009, 11:11 AM
You must not visit frequently enough then ;)

Touche, my friend. Touche. :)

kaldaniels
06-04-2009, 11:14 AM
The original quote in this thread doesn't seem like that big of a deal, though it would be nice to see Phillips grow up and let it go.

That quote about how BP is the best player on the team and not Votto is a much bigger deal since he's talking about a current teammate. Especially since it was said during a stretch where Votto was crushing the ball and carrying this team - but BP had to interject and make sure the reporter knows he is still the best player on the team. Great leadership right there Brandon.

The thing that bothers me about that quote is that the reporter is the one doing the inferring...was that truly what BP meant? The reporter better be 100 percent sure before turning the quote about Votto being the best hitter (hard to oppose that one) into a quote that BP is the best player.

cincrazy
06-04-2009, 11:22 AM
I don't think there's any way BP was taking a shot at Dunn. This is the world we live in today. With all of the media, print and broadcast, every little word a player says gets analyzed and blown out of proportion. He was complimenting Nix. It was JUST a general statement, for goodness sakes.

Someone come wake me from my nap if BP corrects himself and says "Adam Dunn was a fat loser who didn't want to win and he cost us 20 games a year." Then I'll be interested.

BCubb2003
06-04-2009, 11:24 AM
Yes, there's a difference between inferring and implying. The reporter was inferring, no matter what Phillips was implying.

SMcGavin
06-04-2009, 11:28 AM
The thing that bothers me about that quote is that the reporter is the one doing the inferring...was that truly what BP meant? The reporter better be 100 percent sure before turning the quote about Votto being the best hitter (argue to oppose that one) into a quote that BP is the best player.

Right. I'm assuming that BP must have been pretty obvious about what he was trying to imply for the reporter to write what he did.

BCubb2003
06-04-2009, 11:29 AM
I don't think there's any way BP was taking a shot at Dunn. This is the world we live in today. With all of the media, print and broadcast, every little word a player says gets analyzed and blown out of proportion. He was complimenting Nix. It was JUST a general statement, for goodness sakes.

Someone come wake me from my nap if BP corrects himself and says "Adam Dunn was a fat loser who didn't want to win and he cost us 20 games a year." Then I'll be interested.

I agree, and even if he was talking about Dunn, I don't see that as a problem. Why does he have to be sensitive to Dunn's feelings now? If Phillips wants to boost his new teammate who's playing well by talking him up, that's a good thing.

It's not like he's always talking about great Prince Albert is.

SMcGavin
06-04-2009, 11:30 AM
It's not like he's always talking about great Prince Albert is.

True, a Reds employee would never do that. ;)

fearofpopvol1
06-04-2009, 11:46 AM
No issue with this. This is being way blown out of proportion.

dougdirt
06-04-2009, 12:07 PM
Say something 'not nice' about Adam Dunn on Redszone and get 5 pages of replies within 12 hours. Thats just how it works even after he is gone. Phillips is right though, it is nice to have a left fielder who can hit and field. I wish we had a shortstop who could do that too.

medford
06-04-2009, 12:15 PM
Say something 'not nice' about Adam Dunn on Redszone and get 5 pages of replies within 12 hours. Thats just how it works even after he is gone. Phillips is right though, it is nice to have a left fielder who can hit and field. I wish we had a shortstop who could do that too.

+1

Scrap Irony
06-04-2009, 12:20 PM
Right. I'm assuming that BP must have been pretty obvious about what he was trying to imply for the reporter to write what he did.

Yeah, because reporters never spout off without regard for what people actually mean. Ever.

I'm with the Shakespearean multitude-- much ado.

But doug's right, too. OF defense has been, according to UZR and DER, the biggest single dramatic difference on the team so far this year. The Red DER numbers are among the best in the league. Much of that improvement, according to the numbers, belongs with Nix, Gomes, Dickerson, and Hairston in left.

Now, if they could hit like Dunn has over the last two months, maybe Cincinnati could start printing playoff tickets.

nate
06-04-2009, 12:24 PM
Say something 'not nice' about Adam Dunn on Redszone and get 5 pages of replies within 12 hours. Thats just how it works even after he is gone.

I've seen it work the other way too where someone wants to say something nice about him and others feel the need to pile on with his shortcomings.

That's just how it works even after he's gone.


Phillips is right though, it is nice to have a left fielder who can hit and field. I wish we had a shortstop who could do that too.

It is. I do as well.

The Phillips quote is no big deal.

Razor Shines
06-04-2009, 12:26 PM
I'd like to see the title of this thread changed. My opinion follows.

1) "Takes a swing"? More like a jab/poke/slight/etc. if in fact he was referring to Dunn. Seems a bit overdramatic.

2) Was he in fact referring to Dunn? No one knows.

3) No sense bringing the Dunn-defenders-to-the-death out of the woodwork to argue if it is not necessary.




Say something 'not nice' about Adam Dunn on Redszone and get 5 pages of replies within 12 hours. Thats just how it works even after he is gone. Phillips is right though, it is nice to have a left fielder who can hit and field. I wish we had a shortstop who could do that too.

I think the perception that this is being blown out of proportion is being blown out of proportion.

I'm bored so I looked through the thread and did some counting.

70+% of posters thought this was either: No big deal/Wasn't talking about Dunn/So what if he was talking about Dunn?

Of those 70+%, 35% thought this is being blown out of proportion.

14% of posters simply thought Brandon shouldn't have said it, if he was talking about Dunn.

Number of Dunn-Defenders-to-the-Death defending what he said about Dunn: 0%.

And there were another percentage of posters that didn't really comment or talked about something else. So you could probably throw them in with the "No big deal crowd."

Who's blowing the proportion out of proportion?

Roy Tucker
06-04-2009, 12:28 PM
IIRC, BP had a case of the goo about Josh Hamilton as well.

At least he doesn't pick on little wimpy guys.

reds44
06-04-2009, 12:28 PM
I'd like to see the title of this thread changed. My opinion follows.

1) "Takes a swing"? More like a jab/poke/slight/etc. if in fact he was referring to Dunn. Seems a bit overdramatic.

2) Was he in fact referring to Dunn? No one knows.

3) No sense bringing the Dunn-defenders-to-the-death out of the woodwork to argue if it is not necessary.

4) I don't even see the problem. If Johnny Cueto makes a big strikeout and someone says, "its nice to have a pitcher who can get a strikeout in a big situtation" its pretty much same thing. This forum seems always on edge about Dunn and any comment regarding LF and defense strikes a nerve it seems.
On both Fay's and Mark Sheldon's blog they said he was referring to Dunn, this isn't some idea I pulled out of my rear end. There's also a question mark after it for a reason. Not sure why the thread title would need to be changed.

SMcGavin
06-04-2009, 12:40 PM
Yeah, because reporters never spout off without regard for what people actually mean. Ever.


Right. We should assume the reporter, who had a personal conversation with Phillips and came out of it with that impression, doesn't know what he's talking about.

Chip R
06-04-2009, 12:46 PM
Right. We should assume the reporter, who had a personal conversation with Phillips and came out of it with that impression, doesn't know what he's talking about.


Well, one of them is John Fay.

gonelong
06-04-2009, 12:57 PM
Watching the game last night I surely couldn't have been the only one to think, "no way does Dunn get to that ball". It is nice to have a guy in LF that can play some D, as long as it's not attached to a bat that is anemic. So far so good.

GL

jojo
06-04-2009, 12:59 PM
To me this is just further proof that Adam Rosales isn't the answer at third.

nate
06-04-2009, 01:05 PM
Well, one of them is John Fay.

In that case, BP might've been talking about Adm Dnun.

westofyou
06-04-2009, 01:08 PM
In response Dunn was heard to reply.. "I myself now enjoy playing a team that has a real clean up hitter"

Scrap Irony
06-04-2009, 01:11 PM
Right. We should assume the reporter, who had a personal conversation with Phillips and came out of it with that impression, doesn't know what he's talking about.

We shouldn't assume anything. Ever. Especially from a reporter with a history of "lazy" reporting.

CTA513
06-04-2009, 01:12 PM
I've seen it work the other way too where someone wants to say something nice about him and others feel the need to pile on with his shortcomings.


+1

Red in Chicago
06-04-2009, 01:19 PM
In response Dunn was heard to reply.. "I myself now enjoy playing a team that has a real clean up hitter"

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh:

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2009, 01:22 PM
In that case, BP might've been talking about Adm Dnun.

ROFLMAO! That made my morning, Nate! :O)

Nasty_Boy
06-04-2009, 01:26 PM
The thing I hate about this comment (no matter who he directed it) is radio personalities such as Lance McAllister have already made it a BP vs. AD comment. It will be a topic of conversation on WLW, P-Doc will write about it and reading and listening to Reds related stuff will become unbearable. I love Adam Dunn and I respect all that he did as a Red and what he's doing as a National... but I would love to be able to listen to the radio or read the paper/message boards without seeing his name. It's not fair to him and it's not fair to this team. This team is fighting tooth and nail to stay in the race while being shorthanded, and I think that's where the focus should lie.

Chip R
06-04-2009, 01:29 PM
The thing I hate about this comment (no matter who he directed it) is radio personalities such as Lance McAllister have already made it a BP vs. AD comment. It will be a topic of conversation on WLW, P-Doc will write about it and reading and listening to Reds related stuff will become unbearable. I love Adam Dunn and I respect all that he did as a Red and what he's doing as a National... but I would love to be able to listen to the radio or read the paper/message boards without seeing his name. It's not fair to him and it's not fair to this team. This team is fighting tooth and nail to stay in the race while being shorthanded, and I think that's where the focus should lie.


Well put. Unfortunately people are more interested in some feud the media can dredge up rather than the games themselves.

westofyou
06-04-2009, 01:40 PM
However, since it's been brought up, I do believe that Dunn is not nearly as respected inside the clubhouse as he is on RZ.

Yet he got accolades in Arizona when he was there and he's been getting them in DC, he's not Jose Guillen.

Tell ya what, find your proof for that and I'll believe it, until then as the cops say.. It's bar room talk.

_Sir_Charles_
06-04-2009, 01:59 PM
Yet he got accolades in Arizona when he was there and he's been getting them in DC, he's not Jose Guillen.

Tell ya what, find your proof for that and I'll believe it, until then as the cops say.. It's bar room talk.

I'm pretty far from a Dunn-lover but I'd have to go with WoY on this one. I've never seen anything from Dunn to think he's anything but a positive in the clubhouse. Likes to joke around but still professional. He's never really been a "leader" until now, but there's nothing to say that he won't take to that role quite well.

The quotes from Bronson last year, tend to make me think that Bronson & Dunn never quite hit it off, but that's just one guy's opinion.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-04-2009, 02:04 PM
Am I missing something?

Where is this quote being blown out of proportion? 99% of the posts in this thread are saying it's no big deal or a compliment to Nix.

kpresidente
06-04-2009, 02:07 PM
Am I missing something?

Where is this quote being blown out of proportion? 99% of the posts in this thread are saying it's no big deal or a compliment to Nix.

Not on the first page.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-04-2009, 02:15 PM
Not on the first page.

Yeah, I saw the first page. A few posts. But this thread is on page 7 now.

Eric_the_Red
06-04-2009, 02:28 PM
If BP wasn't referring to Dunn but another LFer, then it is another reason why some athletes are hesistant to open up or even talk to the media. And with the state of the media these days, I'm not sure I blame them.

dfs
06-04-2009, 02:36 PM
BP,would be alot more liked by the fans of Cincy if he would just keep his mouth shut which will never happen.

Just for what it's worth. When I look around the stadium there are more Phillips jersies on people's backs than anybody else on the current roster.

I may not think much of him, but reds fans seem to love the guy.

Given that he is now playing (well) with a broken thumb when several guys are leaving the team shorthanded, I'm even inclined to give the guy some slack.

Brutus
06-04-2009, 04:39 PM
I'm pretty far from a Dunn-lover but I'd have to go with WoY on this one. I've never seen anything from Dunn to think he's anything but a positive in the clubhouse. Likes to joke around but still professional. He's never really been a "leader" until now, but there's nothing to say that he won't take to that role quite well.

The quotes from Bronson last year, tend to make me think that Bronson & Dunn never quite hit it off, but that's just one guy's opinion.

I don't think it's his attitude or personality per se. I think it would be more about his lack of perceived hustle, approach toward the game, possibly a lacking work ethic, not running plays out, etc. etc. I'm not sure his teammates were enamored with his lackadaisical attitude toward baseball. As far as his personality - sure, I don't think you'll find anyone that complains about that. He was a good guy. A nice guy. A good teammate. Just not sure he won a lot of friends with his perceived approach toward the game. I'm sure if a lot of fans saw these things, it's not impossible for teammates to see it.

I love the power and patience Dunn had as a member of the Reds. I think his run production was legit. I do think, however, that it's reasonable to criticize some of these aforementioned things. And further, it's probably these very things that made him such a polarizing figure.

Scrap Irony
06-04-2009, 04:54 PM
I don't think it's his attitude or personality per se. I think it would be more about his lack of perceived hustle, approach toward the game, possibly a lacking work ethic, not running plays out, etc. etc. I'm not sure his teammates were enamored with his lackadaisical attitude toward baseball. As far as his personality - sure, I don't think you'll find anyone that complains about that. He was a good guy. A nice guy. A good teammate. Just not sure he won a lot of friends with his perceived approach toward the game. I'm sure if a lot of fans saw these things, it's not impossible for teammates to see it.

I love the power and patience Dunn had as a member of the Reds. I think his run production was legit. I do think, however, that it's reasonable to criticize some of these aforementioned things. And further, it's probably these very things that made him such a polarizing figure.

If we still had rep points, you'd deserve some for this. Cincinnati's team is now basically a bunch of RA's. With Nix, Rosales, and Votto leading the charge, this team works. Hard.

Phillips may be one of those RA's. He may be trying to fit in with them, too. You really couldn't tell unless you spent some time in the locker room.

REDREAD
06-04-2009, 05:04 PM
Geez, some people are really over reacting.

Let's say Burton came in and struck out the side in the 9th, allowing no baserunners.

After the game, Phillips says that it's nice to have a reliever that can come in and nail down the save.

Would anyone interpret this as a jab against Cordero or Weathers? I doubt it. If it was interpretted as a jab against Cordero, I bet most people here would be laughing about it, not offended.

jojo
06-04-2009, 05:07 PM
The issue is that the Reds former LFer had a scarlet D tatooed on his forehead.

I think it's difficult to read the Phillips' comment without atleast wondering if it was a dig.

But then again I also think Phillips has a bit of 85 in him.... he might get a little uncomfortable sharing the spotlight.

Ltlabner
06-04-2009, 05:09 PM
I think it would be more about his lack of perceived hustle, approach toward the game, possibly a lacking work ethic, not running plays out, etc. etc. .

This has been hashed to death long before your arrival in the ORG.

But judging how hard Dunn worked based on the perceptions of fans, or if he sprints to his position is about as asinine as you can get. It's all perceptions based on bizarre notions of what hard work looks like, or on fleeting moments during a game.

We have no idea how much time Dunn spent studying film, working with coaches, conditioning, being in the weight room, talking with the manager, etc. That's the real work of baseball.

Nope, you have a fan, who likely goes to a game or two a year, probably with some bozo notion that the highest paid player on the team is the lazy guy by default, deciding Dunn is lazy because he doesn't destroy the Gatorade cooler after an out.

It's all patently silly.

ETA: Towards the subject at hand. Maybe BPhill meant it as a dig, but frankly I don't think he's that clever. I think he was running his mouth and that's what came out.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-04-2009, 05:12 PM
Big guys running hard don't look like they are trying as hard as little guys (or even average-sized guys) that are running hard.

Brutus
06-04-2009, 05:15 PM
This has been hashed to death long before your arrival in the ORG.

But judging how hard Dunn worked based on the perceptions of fans, or if he sprints to his position is about as asinine as you can get. It's all perceptions based on bizarre notions of what hard work looks like, or on fleeting moments in the entirety of a day.

We have no idea how much time Dunn spent studying film, working with coaches, conditioning, being in the weight room, talking with the manager, etc. That's the real work of baseball.

Nope, you have a fan, who likely goes to a game or two a year, likely with some bozo notion that the highest paid player on the team is the lazy guy by default, deciding Dunn is lazy because he doesn't destroy the Gatorade cooler after an out.

It's all patently silly.

Problem is, we're not just talking about an average fan that watches 1-2 games a year. This was noticed and spoken about by Reds' brass, by Marty Brenneman, Jeff Brantley, Hal McCoy, national baseball writers in discussing his possible trade last July and even baseball executives around the league. And what about J.P. Riccardi's statements?

It's not as if some uneducated fan is the only one saying these things. It's a wide-spread perception among baseball. I'm sorry, but I myself have thought these same things for five years. I think the guy, as a sum of his production, was worth it, but it was also highly frustrating not seeing him run out ground balls, hustling to his position, misplaying routine fly balls and whiffing at a third strike in the dirt while trying to hit the ball 550 feet. I was cognizant enough to know in the end, he was going to help the Reds more than he would hurt. However, these simple fundamentals of baseball and the willingness to play the game as best you can, unfortunately, were lacking in my estimation. Nevermind that many, many folks with more credentials than myself felt this way.

Ltlabner
06-04-2009, 05:26 PM
I think the guy, as a sum of his production, was worth it, but it was also highly frustrating not seeing him run out ground balls, hustling to his position, misplaying routine fly balls and whiffing at a third strike in the dirt while trying to hit the ball 550 feet.

So what you are saying is you want the sizzle along with the steak? Hustling to his position? Really? That effects his game how? I know people will chime in about how the game needs to be respected, and how they teach their kids to sprint and how it means the player loves baseball. It's all crap. I want production, not crisp uniforms and cracked out squirrels running amok.

Misplaying routine foul balls strikes me as a lack of skill rather than a lack of effort or hustle. Otherwise we better be slamming Willy T for being a lazy bum.

Swinging at the third strike, while frustrating, is a function of low contact rates. How that throws his work ethic into question is beyond me. By the way, BPhill has an issue with hacking at pitches in the dirt. Is he lazy also?

Lastly I don't give a rip what Marty B thinks of Dunn (and I'm a hardcore Marty fan who has argued on his behalf many times here). It's obvious there were personal issues there. If Hal McCoy had examples of how Dunn blew off training sessions and slept during conditioning he should reported it, not danced around the subject. PDoc is an idiot so I'm not sure what his commentary has to do with anything.

CTA513
06-04-2009, 05:26 PM
Problem is, we're not just talking about an average fan that watches 1-2 games a year. This was noticed and spoken about by Reds' brass, by Marty Brenneman, Jeff Brantley, Hal McCoy, national baseball writers in discussing his possible trade last July and even baseball executives around the league. And what about J.P. Riccardi's statements?

It's not as if some uneducated fan is the only one saying these things. It's a wide-spread perception among baseball. I'm sorry, but I myself have thought these same things for five years. I think the guy, as a sum of his production, was worth it, but it was also highly frustrating not seeing him run out ground balls, hustling to his position, misplaying routine fly balls and whiffing at a third strike in the dirt while trying to hit the ball 550 feet. I was cognizant enough to know in the end, he was going to help the Reds more than he would hurt. However, these simple fundamentals of baseball and the willingness to play the game as best you can, unfortunately, were lacking in my estimation. Nevermind that many, many folks with more credentials than myself felt this way.

The guy who later said he didn't even know Dunn?

dougdirt
06-04-2009, 05:30 PM
The guy who later said he didn't even know Dunn?

The same guy who has gotten reports across his desk for multiple seasons from professional baseball scouts, yeah, that same guy.

nate
06-04-2009, 05:33 PM
The same guy who has gotten reports across his desk for multiple seasons from professional baseball scouts, yeah, that same guy.

And the other 29 GMs/organizations who didn't back him up?

Sinister piffle.

cincrazy
06-04-2009, 05:41 PM
This has been hashed to death long before your arrival in the ORG.

But judging how hard Dunn worked based on the perceptions of fans, or if he sprints to his position is about as asinine as you can get. It's all perceptions based on bizarre notions of what hard work looks like, or on fleeting moments during a game.

We have no idea how much time Dunn spent studying film, working with coaches, conditioning, being in the weight room, talking with the manager, etc. That's the real work of baseball.

Nope, you have a fan, who likely goes to a game or two a year, probably with some bozo notion that the highest paid player on the team is the lazy guy by default, deciding Dunn is lazy because he doesn't destroy the Gatorade cooler after an out.

It's all patently silly.

ETA: Towards the subject at hand. Maybe BPhill meant it as a dig, but frankly I don't think he's that clever. I think he was running his mouth and that's what came out.

I'm not in the "Dunn was lazy he needed to go" group. But, in fairness to those questioning his work ethic, Dunn himself has already admitted this year he's making adjustments this year he's never made, he's watching more film, and he's putting more work in. As a fan of his former team, that actually angers me. What the hell took him almost a decade to do so?

I wish Dunn well. I rooted for him during his time here. But that comment didn't sit well with me. Maybe it was taken out of context and he was just trying to make himself look better with the D.C. faithful. Regardless, dropping 20 lbs and talking about his newfound dedication to the game a year after losing Cincy is upsetting to me.

Brutus
06-04-2009, 05:41 PM
So what you are saying is you want the sizzle along with the steak? Hustling to his position? Really? That effects his game how? I know people will chime in about how the game needs to be respected, and how they teach their kids to sprint and how it means the player loves baseball. It's all crap. I want production, not crisp uniforms and cracked out squirrels running amok.

Misplaying routine foul balls strikes me as a lack of skill rather than a lack of effort or hustle. Otherwise we better be slamming Willy T for being a lazy bum.

Swinging at the third strike, while frustrating, is a function of low contact rates. How that throws his work ethic into question is beyond me. By the way, BPhill has an issue with hacking at pitches in the dirt. Is he lazy also?

Lastly I don't give a rip what Marty B thinks of Dunn (and I'm a hardcore Marty fan who has argued on his behalf many times here). It's obvious there were personal issues there. If Hal McCoy had examples of how Dunn blew off training sessions and slept during conditioning he should reported it, not danced around the subject. PDoc is an idiot so I'm not sure what his commentary has to do with anything.

Guys get ripped at every level of every sport for not hustling. Maybe I'm just a sucker for old-fashioned fundamentals, but I've always been taught to play hard all the time or don't play at all.

I don't understand how it's OK to hold guys accountable for their skill levels, but the thing they can control most - how they play the game, does not matter. At then end of the day, skill exceeds will. However, you give me a team full of guys that sacrifice maybe only a little talent but make up for it with hustle, and I'll show you a team that will outperform the team made up of guys who are either lazy or simply don't exert maximum effort.

I believe this is where stats will never fully measure the intangibles. They might not show up with a handsome, easy-calculated metric, but be certain they do exist.

There was clearly an attitude problem in the clubhouse last season. I'm not blaming Dunn for all of that, but it's absolutely certain that a change in atmosphere needed to be made. There were so many reports last season of cliques and a divided clubhouse. This year, you hear nothing but how much this team loves playing together. You can put two and two together as to which individuals are no longer around. Again, it's not all on Dunn, but I think it's time we stop turning a blind eye to the possibility that perhaps Dunn did not have as much respect as he could have had.

J.P. Riccardi said what he needed to say to apologize. You think he really has no idea about Dunn's reputation? Executives talk. Advanced scouts watch these players on a daily basis. Riccardi didn't just grab these comments out of thin air and make them up. Dozens of credentialed folks have made similar comments, but now they all have personal issues, axes to grind or are idiots.

I respect Dunn's abilities. However, yes, I would like guys to hustle. I would like guys that work hard. I'm sorry if that seems like it's greedy, but that's how it is for every sport on every level. I'm confused when Dunn became the exception to professional sports.

westofyou
06-04-2009, 05:42 PM
Hustling to his position?

Yet he played the most games of any Red in this decade.

Can't win for losing.

CTA513
06-04-2009, 05:44 PM
Hustling to his position?

Yet he played the most games of any Red in this decade.

Can't win for losing.


But he hates baseball.

dougdirt
06-04-2009, 05:46 PM
And the other 29 GMs/organizations who didn't back him up?

Sinister piffle.

Why would they come out to back him up?

Tommyjohn25
06-04-2009, 05:47 PM
Tone down the snark and bring this back on topic (Phillips comments), or this baby is going on lock down.

deltachi8
06-04-2009, 05:48 PM
Can we please leave the former Red alone. I'm sure there is plenty of meat on Edwin's bones to pick at, so have at it.

Brutus
06-04-2009, 05:48 PM
Why would they come out to back him up?

True.

In fact, Jayson Stark polled over 20 executives about Dunn back in June of last year. All but two said they wanted nothing to do with Dunn at that time. They may not have come out and said it, but make no mistake, many were thinking it.

cincrazy
06-04-2009, 05:49 PM
I get the feeling that in 2027 the Adam Dunn threads will still be going strong.

Mario-Rijo
06-04-2009, 05:54 PM
As David Ortiz's hitless at-bats pile up, the Red Sox are moving closer to the day when they will be forced to take Ortiz out of the lineup. On paper, the perfect fit in their lineup might be Washington's Adam Dunn, who has been making far more adjustments in his at-bats this year than in the past. But the Nationals would want a big-time pitching prospect in return, if they were willing to trade Dunn at all. Then there's the fact that the Red Sox have a reputation, among other teams, for clinging to their young pitchers. This might be a situation in which the two teams match up in assets and needs, but don't match up in deal-making circumstances.


Something of note from Olney's blog today on Dunn.

nate
06-04-2009, 05:58 PM
As the mods have detailed ad infinitum, there's nothing new being said here.

I vote to end this thread.

Eric_the_Red
06-04-2009, 06:03 PM
We have no idea how much time Dunn spent studying film, working with coaches, conditioning, being in the weight room, talking with the manager, etc. That's the real work of baseball.


Actually, we know a little about that now:


Dunn is batting .313 with 11 homers and 28 RBIs, backed by a .448 on-base percentage. He says he's having more fun practicing the art of hitting than at any other time during his career. "I know more about hitting now," he said. "I've never really known about hitting before."

Dunn says he really began to improve his acumen after he was traded to the Arizona Diamondbacks last season. For the first time in his career, he was part of a pennant race, and he was expected to anchor his team's lineup. "It was a role that I had never really been in before," Dunn said. "I had never really been the elder statesman in a lineup before. … You don't want to let the other players down."

He ramped up his preparation, spending more time watching video and developing a plan for his at-bats. After signing with the Nationals as a free agent during the offseason, Dunn took that same approach into spring training -- and into the World Baseball Classic. "The WBC helped a ton," Dunn said.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4162906&name=olney_buster

Bumstead
06-04-2009, 06:10 PM
And Brandon Phillips is 'Mr. Hustle'...c'mon. Dunn was the best hitter on the Reds the whole time he was here/there. Phillips...talk is cheap...please, someone be the leader of the Reds besides Brandon Phillips!

Scrap Irony
06-04-2009, 06:10 PM
Yeah, that kind of ticks me off as well, if true. And it would certainly tick off those guys that played with him.

Has any Red come out in favor of Dunn's work ethic?

paintmered
06-04-2009, 06:12 PM
This thread would have stayed open had it not veered off topic. Dunn and his perceived lack of hustle has been beaten to death too many times and I'm not going to let it happen further.

Dunn is not a forbidden topic. Rehashing tired arguments is.