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View Full Version : When Do You Consider Demoting Jay Bruce?



TheBigLebowski
06-06-2009, 09:18 PM
He's absolutely lost at the plate, has been for the last month and I'm not sure he's getting the coaching he needs in Cincy. Do we wait until the average dips below the Mendoza Line? Or is it simply something that's just not in the cards? Do you start bringing him off the bench?

I'm not the one being paid to make these decisions but, if I was, I'd be in favor of a short trip to Luh-a-vuhl.

NeilHamburger
06-06-2009, 09:22 PM
I don't even consider it until after this road trip. If after Washington and KC he is below .200 I consider it.

BluegrassRedleg
06-06-2009, 09:43 PM
It's no option at all. There's no one else to stick in there. The guys already on this roster aren't MLB-caliber everyday players. You just have to let him work his way out of it.

GIDP
06-06-2009, 09:50 PM
I think hes MLB ready as hes gonna be. Sending him to AAA is just going to tell us he can crush AAA pitching again.

steig
06-06-2009, 10:04 PM
When you are ready to give up on this season and prove to yourself that he can destroy AAA pitchers. He needs big league experience, demoting him won't solve the problem and it takes off the most talented player on the team. I would consider sitting him more and only playing him 2 out of 3 games for some time so he can cool his head and relax a little.

Ghosts of 1990
06-06-2009, 10:04 PM
Just my thoughts but to say he is lost is really not watching closely enough. He had 4 great at bats last night. He's hitting a lot of balls in play hard that are right at people or miss leaving the yard by 5 feet.

Who do you want as his every day replacement? Darnell Mcdonald? Johnny Gomes? And outfield of Taveras, Nix, and Dickerson? You send down Bruce you start really messing with his confidence.

TheBigLebowski
06-06-2009, 10:49 PM
Just my thoughts but to say he is lost is really not watching closely enough. He had 4 great at bats last night. He's hitting a lot of balls in play hard that are right at people or miss leaving the yard by 5 feet.

Who do you want as his every day replacement? Darnell Mcdonald? Johnny Gomes? And outfield of Taveras, Nix, and Dickerson? You send down Bruce you start really messing with his confidence.

Honestly, I'm probably the 2nd biggest Jay Bruce fan here, 2nd only to you. But we all have to admit he's not right at this point.

I don't know who you replace him with. We're in a bad spot. The original post, however, was written with his long-term future in mind. I just don't think we have enough offense to win this year.

Mutaman
06-06-2009, 11:08 PM
Maybe if he'd stop trying to hit a 5 run homer every time up. Maybe if he'd just start taking what he is given. Whatever, for a kid with his talent to be flirting with the Mendosa line in this ballpark is rediculous. Maybe the guy just isn't very bright. And to think a year ago I would not have traded him for Longoria even up. Ouch!

Start sitting him against left handers.

TheBigLebowski
06-06-2009, 11:24 PM
Maybe if he'd stop trying to hit a 5 run homer every time up. Maybe if he'd just start taking what he is given. Whatever, for a kid with his talent to be flirting with the Mendosa line in this ballpark is rediculous. Maybe the guy just isn't very bright. And to think a year ago I would not have traded him for Longoria even up. Ouch!

Start sitting him against left handers.

I think the problem is his approach. He's up there to HIT instead of being up there to be a HITTER. Big difference. It's a mental craft. He's got all the talent in the world and it frustrates me to see him struggle so badly.

NorrisHopper30
06-06-2009, 11:28 PM
Never

Billy_Bearcat
06-06-2009, 11:30 PM
It appears Bruce is the left-handed hitting twin of Austin Kearns. The numbers are starting to look the same.

Roush's socks
06-07-2009, 12:16 AM
I think they could try platooning him. If he only saw righty pitching for a little while he might get his groove and confidence back. Even a few really good LH hitters (like Willy McCovey) platooned for their first 2-3 seasons. What would their rotation be if he was being platooned?

Slyder
06-07-2009, 01:18 AM
He's absolutely lost at the plate, has been for the last month and I'm not sure he's getting the coaching he needs in Cincy. Do we wait until the average dips below the Mendoza Line? Or is it simply something that's just not in the cards? Do you start bringing him off the bench?

I'm not the one being paid to make these decisions but, if I was, I'd be in favor of a short trip to Luh-a-vuhl.

Not this year. If we are going to stay in this he HAS to be part of it. Plus it's not like he was having an "okay" year in da Ville when he got called up last year. Sending him down wouldn't do anything for him. If/When Tavares gets healthy or he goes to the DL (call up a OF), give Bruce a few days off to just get his head back on straight and see if that helps like it did Dickerson. He's never going to learn to hit major league pitching at AAA, he needs to learn and make adjustments in Nati not Da Ville. Plus he's had a bit of bad luck, a few hard hit balls right at someone.

I wouldnt platoon him (unless its like September and were still in the thick of it) for the same reasons. He won't learn how to hit unless he's thrown into the wolves den, tossed a sword and shield (bat and helmet) and told fend for yourself. He's 22 not like he' Tavares' service time where we can be pretty certain of production. Again he is a big part of the present and future he's gotta learn how to hit MLB pitching in the majors you can't do that at AAA.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 01:19 AM
Even a few really good LH hitters (like Willy McCovey) platooned for their first 2-3 seasons.

Good point and i agree Bruce should sit more against good lefties.


Of course when McCovey sat, the Giants were "forced" to play an outfield of Felipe Alou, Willie Mays, and Jackie Brandt or leon Wagner , with Orlando Cepeda at first base.

Slyder
06-07-2009, 01:27 AM
I think they could try platooning him. If he only saw righty pitching for a little while he might get his groove and confidence back. Even a few really good LH hitters (like Willy McCovey) platooned for their first 2-3 seasons. What would their rotation be if he was being platooned?

And there were those who wanted Chipper Jones to give up switch hitting early on too. The Braves and Jones didnt listen and Jones worked through it and worked out pretty well I think.

Plus Plus
06-07-2009, 01:39 AM
I think hes MLB ready as hes gonna be. Sending him to AAA is just going to tell us he can crush AAA pitching again.

+1

WILD THING
06-07-2009, 02:02 AM
They only way Bruce should be in AAA is if we somehow get this as our starting outfield:

Ted Williams LF
Willie Mays CF
90's Griffey Jr RF

I know 90s Junior played CF but I'd like to think he'd make the switch for Willie.

Captain Hook
06-07-2009, 02:02 AM
Never

That pretty much sums it up.

I think the best thing that could happen is for Bruce to get dinged up a bit so the coaching staff has a excuse to sit him a few games.This happened once this year and when Jay came back he caught fire.I really don't want to see him get hurt but last time he did sit a few games it really did seem to help.

Shawn_RedsFan
06-07-2009, 03:22 PM
This explains this site: What Have You Done For Me Lately

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 03:26 PM
Not to ruffle any feathers here; but when I watch the guys playing the OF today (would be the starting OF if Bruce was demoted to AAA Louisville) even with Willy Taveras, these guys aren't guys who can be depended upon to produce every day.

Gomes, Dickerson, Nix, these guys aren't every day run producers. They just aren't. You can try to fit a square peg in a round hole all you want, but that won't make it so.

This lineup struggles to score runs every night. We need run producers on this roster. To take away Jay Bruce from the lineup is taking away the potential of a big run producer. It is what it is. He's struggling, but every time he goes up to the plate he has a chance to get an extra base hit or knock it out of the park. He adds a dimension to the lineup. He needs to be here.

On a different roster, maybe you can justify sending him down. But with the way things are it should just be about getting him experience and letting him work things out at this level. Allowing him to contribute and be part of the big league club. It's not like this is a World Series team.

Krawhitham
06-07-2009, 03:59 PM
I think hes MLB ready as hes gonna be. Sending him to AAA is just going to tell us he can crush AAA pitching again.

Let him crush AAA for a week, he will get confidence by crushing AAA.

Krawhitham
06-07-2009, 04:03 PM
This explains this site: What Have You Done For Me Lately


What has Bruce ever done at the MLB level?

.253 last season and .212 this season

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 04:14 PM
What has Bruce ever done at the MLB level?

.253 last season and .212 this season

That happens with young players. He'll be fine

Slyder
06-07-2009, 05:38 PM
Let him crush AAA for a week, he will get confidence by crushing AAA.

And then most likely come up be hot for a couple weeks then right back where he is now. If he's ever going to be good he has to get it done vs MLB pitching.

LouisvilleCARDS
06-07-2009, 05:44 PM
We need a new hitting coach, someone a little more proven than Brook freaking Jacoby.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 05:56 PM
We need a new hitting coach, someone a little more proven than Brook freaking Jacoby.

I couldn't agree more. It's not just Bruce. I just have never seen someone become a BETTER hitter after extended time under Jacoby's tuteledge.

MrLarryJohnson
06-07-2009, 09:12 PM
two more months of this and I am officially on the "he's a bust" wagon

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 09:14 PM
two more months of this and I am officially on the "he's a bust" wagon

well you need to get a clue then, I'd say.

MrLarryJohnson
06-07-2009, 09:17 PM
You must not have been a fan during the Austin Kearns era. I am aware of how talented he is, but some guys just don't get it at this level, and at the plate the last month or so he just looks like he isn't even close to getting it. He is no longer 20 years old.

MrLarryJohnson
06-07-2009, 09:20 PM
It is incredibly frustrating watching this horrid offense and seeing the best hitters not in the lineup. You can blame it on Rosales and Janish as much as you want but they shouldn't be up in key sitiations in the first place. If Bruce gets to the point where he has to sit every 3rd day and still can't figure it out it will be hard not to think he is a bust.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 09:20 PM
You must not have been a fan during the Austin Kearns era. I am aware of how talented he is, but some guys just don't get it at this level, and at the plate the last month or so he just looks like he isn't even close to getting it. He is no longer 20 years old.

No he's 22, and he just played his 162nd game this past weekend I believe.

You don't call guys busts at 22. You do it at 27, 28 if they're not reaching potential.

I'm not saying I've been pleased with Jay this year because at all times I haven't But to say he's two months from being a bust? He's not two years from being a bust.

It's unfair because the worst thing to happen to him was coming up and having the storybook first few weeks he was in the big leagues. People were expecting Ted Williams II before that. Now, he hits a rough patch and he's a bust?

And FWIW I have been a Reds fan since the mid to late 80's. I remember Kearns when he homered in some 7 straight games with the Dayton Dragons and yes I was excited about Austin too. But he never had the credentials even in the minors that Jay did and he did not have the swing that Jay has.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 09:22 PM
It is incredibly frustrating watching this horrid offense and seeing the best hitters not in the lineup. You can blame it on Rosales and Janish as much as you want but they shouldn't be up in key sitiations in the first place. If Bruce gets to the point where he has to sit every 3rd day and still can't figure it out it will be hard not to think he is a bust.

He isn't going to sit every 3rd day. Dusty is giving him a mental day off because he just wanted to probably tell him (who knows what, I'd love to know what Baker said to him today) but tell him to relax, that he's fine, tell him stories of when Baker slumped as a player, who knows?

I don't think it's bad to give a young kid who's having pressure lumped on himself by the media, fans, and most importantly himself a day off now and then. He's 22. I know how mature I was at 22. It's a lot for a guy that age. We're going to need him for the long haul. The day off was a good idea.

Kingspoint
06-08-2009, 03:09 PM
Brooks Robinson was demoted.

No one's too good to be demoted.

Ghosts of 1990
06-09-2009, 11:54 PM
hitless again tonight. this just isn't going to go away is it.

MrLarryJohnson
06-09-2009, 11:57 PM
At least he took a walk and had some decent swings

gilpdawg
06-10-2009, 01:42 AM
hitless again tonight. this just isn't going to go away is it.
He's coming out of it. He hit some shots right at people in the Cubs series and he's been taking more walks, which means his pitch selection is back on track. Results can't be far behind.

travisgrimes
06-10-2009, 03:25 AM
i think if another week of terrible hitting from jay occurs, he should be sent down for a couple of weeks just to calm him down and get back down to basics and not over thinking it

DTCromer
06-10-2009, 08:27 AM
Why would we demote Jay Bruce?

Everyone on ORG is just saying he's unlucky he's hitting .215 right now. He'll get lucky by the end of the year and be hitting a robust .240 sooner or later.


No he's 22, and he just played his 162nd game this past weekend I believe.

You don't call guys busts at 22. You do it at 27, 28 if they're not reaching potential.


We'll find out sooner than 27. We'll find out by the time he's 24. Is it going to take him 5 years to stop swinging at really bad pitches?

BigJohn
06-10-2009, 08:51 AM
To paraphrase fictional catcher Crash Davis, the difference between hitting .250 and .300 is just one extra flare a week—a gorp, a groundball, a groundball with eyes, a dying quail. That’s the way the game works. Game of inches, dude.

flash
06-10-2009, 09:54 AM
Some of these posts are unbelievable.

Dickerson is a dud against left-handers therefore he should not be used against them. Bruce is a dud agaisnt left handers, but he needs to know how to hit them so play him until he learns. What? Is Dickerson learning disabled?
BTW, Dickerson may have a lower batting average against lefties, but his OBP is higher than Bruce's

Last week Dickerson made some really good plays and throws. You could almost say the were Bruce like.

The reason Bruce isn't hitting is simple. He is constantly stepping into the well. Major League pitchers can spot that and pitch accordingly.

Here's a classic

The difference between a .300 hitter and a .250 hitter is one squbbler, or dying quail hit a week. Why don't we say this and be truthful. The difference between a .300 hitter and a .250 hitter is a strikeout a week. To actually get a squbbler or a dying quail a player has to hit the ball. (What a concept!!! Hit the baseball.)

Bruce is a potential run producer, Dickerson is not. Give me a break. That doesn't even deserve a response. Once again, it helps mightily to hit the baseball if you want to produce a run.

It totally confuses me how a dumb, no talent, doesn't get any pitches to hit in the 8th spot, can hit .300 while the multi-talented Jay Bruce struggles to hit .200. Yet the .300 hitter can't even break into the starting eight.

Ghosts of 1990
06-10-2009, 11:23 AM
he's not stepping into the well but he is going to get sent down

bounty37h
06-10-2009, 11:43 AM
Let him crush AAA for a week, he will get confidence by crushing AAA.

I kind of feel this way too, although I agree we dont have the bats in the field to "fill in" while he does that. Once Votto and EdE come back, if we have some wiggle room, maybe a confidence builder of teeing off on AAA would help, tell him to enjoy his time and get his confidence back, we are calling you back up soon to help this team in the stretch at the end to get us in the playoffs-so it wouldnt mess with his head thats he being demoted. But, relaistically, that wont happen, he is too needed here to give him that time, but ideally I htink that would be best

bounty37h
06-10-2009, 11:46 AM
two more months of this and I am officially on the "he's a bust" wagon

From your posts on here so far, I would say you are def a get-on-the-wagon type fan.

PTI (pti)
06-10-2009, 02:11 PM
Not a chance in the world you send Jay Bruce down to Louisville. There's nothing he can learn down there that he can't learn at the Major League level. But put me down as being very very skeptical as to why this guy was ever rated the #1 prospect in baseball. Adam Dunn's career path was very similar, and he put up better #s every step of the way.

ADunn (343 games) = .304 / .425 / .525 / 63 homers / 270 ks / 230 walks
Bruce (353 games) = .308 / .366 / .555 / 61 homers / 339 ks / 125 walks


I just get a really bad feeling that he's becoming (or is already) basically Adam Dunn, minus the high on-base %. He's been completely useless against left-handed pitching so far in his major league career. He needs to figure out how to remedy that asap.

HOPEFULLY he can do that in Cincinnati, and not Louisville.

DTCromer
06-10-2009, 05:08 PM
Let him crush AAA for a week, he will get confidence by crushing AAA.

How will he gain confidence going back to the place where he never learned to fix some of his problems to begin with?

I think many people are failing to see that Jay has played a full season of games still hoping for him to improve, on the highest level, something that has always been a concern of his.

Ghosts of 1990
06-10-2009, 05:16 PM
How will he gain confidence going back to the place where he never learned to fix some of his problems to begin with?

I think many people are failing to see that Jay has played a full season of games still hoping for him to improve, on the highest level, something that has always been a concern of his.

Maybe I'm reading the wording wrong here.... but maybe I'm not. What are you saying is a concern of his?

I only ask because I know some people close to Jay and they've said some things to me recently that makes me think you know more then meets the eye. Then again I could have been reading what you are typing wrong.

DTCromer
06-10-2009, 05:17 PM
His approach to hitting and lack of patience.

GIDP
06-10-2009, 05:18 PM
I would have demoted him to AA last month. He's clearly never going to be a good hitter. On the other hand I'd start Willy Taveras every day because hes less of a problem.

Ghosts of 1990
06-10-2009, 05:58 PM
I would have demoted him to AA last month. He's clearly never going to be a good hitter. On the other hand I'd start Willy Taveras every day because hes less of a problem.

See I think there are signs that he's going to be a very good hitter. He's making a lot of contact this season. He's just missed about a dozen home runs in the past two weeks to add to his 14 he's already hit.

I think he's going to be a .280 guy with a lot of power eventually.

DTCromer
06-10-2009, 06:54 PM
See I think there are signs that he's going to be a very good hitter. He's making a lot of contact this season. He's just missed about a dozen home runs in the past two weeks to add to his 14 he's already hit.

I think he's going to be a .280 guy with a lot of power eventually.

We already know he has lots of power, just like Dunn.

The question will always be if he can consistently hit the ball. Hell, he'll actually hit the ball to left. Something Adam never really did. Jay has all the tools, but hasn't done anything to prove to me that he knows how to use them.

DTCromer
06-10-2009, 09:47 PM
FINALLY!

Jay Bruce is getting lucky!

Hondo
06-11-2009, 04:25 AM
Is this Thread even allowed to Exist? What a joke.

THEblindhomer
06-11-2009, 04:29 AM
jay bruce is no adam dunn. This guy is going to be a much better contact hitter. He is better in the field too. I can't believe this thread is allowed. Bruce is the man.

THEblindhomer
06-11-2009, 04:31 AM
I would have demoted him to AA last month. He's clearly never going to be a good hitter. On the other hand I'd start Willy Taveras every day because hes less of a problem.
I have to disagree. demote him to AA? maybe your joking, but this guy has a lot of potential. Do you watch the games?

Ghosts of 1990
06-11-2009, 12:21 PM
There's a few people here who clearly only get in player's corners if they hit over .320 and put up otherwise Ryan Braun numbers. If not, they're open to be ripped and in Bruce's case even worse then the normal player.

Without him last night we might not have scored at all. He won the game for us last night.

REDSEER
06-11-2009, 12:44 PM
I am in the crowd that says Bruce has been extremely unlucky for the last few weeks. He sure has swung at some questionable pitches and had some poor at-bats, but who in the Reds' lineup hasn't during this offfensively-challenged stretch?

Jay has hit some rockets right at people...just so happens that last night he found some grass (or seats :D)

Ghosts of 1990
06-12-2009, 12:43 PM
I am still really worried about Jay but one thing I can say in watching closely in all this is his K-rate should be going way down, he's simply putting the ball in play nearly every at bat, every night. And his line drive rate should be rising. So we should see that help the average if this trend continues.

GOYA
06-12-2009, 01:10 PM
I am still really worried about Jay but one thing I can say in watching closely in all this is his K-rate should be going way down, he's simply putting the ball in play nearly every at bat, every night.

That's true. Bruce has only 4 K's in his last 31 ABs compared to 9 walks. But unfortunately, he only has 4 hits over those 31 ABs.

DTCromer
06-12-2009, 01:14 PM
There's a few people here who clearly only get in player's corners if they hit over .320 and put up otherwise Ryan Braun numbers. If not, they're open to be ripped and in Bruce's case even worse then the normal player.

Without him last night we might not have scored at all. He won the game for us last night.

Who said he had to be Ryan Braun? Hell, all I'm asking him to do is hit .250 and we'll go from there. It isn't that much to ask for an alleged "Top Prospect."

PTI (pti)
06-12-2009, 03:24 PM
There's a few people here who clearly only get in player's corners if they hit over .320 and put up otherwise Ryan Braun numbers. If not, they're open to be ripped and in Bruce's case even worse then the normal player.

Without him last night we might not have scored at all. He won the game for us last night.


In his career thus far, Jay Bruce....


vs. lefties = .178 / .266 / .279 / 4 homers
vs. righties= .270 / .332 / .542 / 32 homers


Even Jay Bruce's own kin would have to admit those numbers are pretty ridiculous. Adam Dunn doesn't even have splits that are that drastically different. Nor Ryan Braun. Nor Russell Branyan. Nor Kalvoski Daniels, or anyone else I can think of off the top of my head.


He's got a lot of really really bad habits. You *have* to be willing to admit that. And it's okay to sit somewhere in the middle on this argument. No, he wasn't the second coming of Ted Williams when he get off to a hot start last year, and no, he's not the next Kevin Mass, either.


But if you lay out the facts, if you really look at his production in 5 years of professional baseball, you have to be a little concerned about what you see from the former #1 overall prospect.

butlerbulldogs
06-12-2009, 07:34 PM
who is Kevin Mass? you mean Kevin Maas?

lidspinner
06-12-2009, 07:51 PM
In his career thus far, Jay Bruce....


vs. lefties = .178 / .266 / .279 / 4 homers
vs. righties= .270 / .332 / .542 / 32 homers


Even Jay Bruce's own kin would have to admit those numbers are pretty ridiculous. Adam Dunn doesn't even have splits that are that drastically different. Nor Ryan Braun. Nor Russell Branyan. Nor Kalvoski Daniels, or anyone else I can think of off the top of my head.


He's got a lot of really really bad habits. You *have* to be willing to admit that. And it's okay to sit somewhere in the middle on this argument. No, he wasn't the second coming of Ted Williams when he get off to a hot start last year, and no, he's not the next Kevin Mass, either.


But if you lay out the facts, if you really look at his production in 5 years of professional baseball, you have to be a little concerned about what you see from the former #1 overall prospect.

I am very concerned...I see a guy who is a Adam Dunn clone at this stage in his career. I will repeat what I seen posted already in this thread, to be Adam Dunn at this point in his career is a major compliment. Its what he does from here that will write his story. He can put her in cruise control and I am sure when Votto gets back he wiill start to see better pitches and get his average up around the .250 mark and go down as a above average player in MLB and there is absolutley nothing wrong with that at all. OR, OR he can put the work in and be twice the player Adam Dunn was/is and make his run on history as one of the better Reds players of all time. He has that kind of talent, its what he does with that talent that will make or break his legacy....itsup to him, but yes I am very concerned with the numbers I have seen in his 4-5 years of swings. I have faith but i am very concerned.

Krawhitham
06-13-2009, 06:46 AM
I am very concerned...I see a guy who is a Adam Dunn clone at this stage in his career. I will repeat what I seen posted already in this thread, to be Adam Dunn at this point in his career is a major compliment

But he can field the ball, which makes the strikeouts bearable

DTCromer
06-13-2009, 10:46 AM
.211 and falling.

At what point does the Jay Bruce mafia start accepting respnsibility for his suckiness?

GIDP
06-13-2009, 11:04 AM
.211 and falling.

At what point does the Jay Bruce mafia start accepting respnsibility for his suckiness?

Hes still the 2nd best hitter in the reds line up right now.

DTCromer
06-13-2009, 11:14 AM
Hes still the 2nd best hitter in the reds line up right now.

So that's the justification? First it was, "He's young." Then, "He's unlucky." and now it's "He's still the 2nd better hitter in the lineup?"

GIDP
06-13-2009, 11:33 AM
So that's the justification? First it was, "He's young." Then, "He's unlucky." and now it's "He's still the 2nd better hitter in the lineup?"

You refuse to listen to any reason why he shouldnt be demoted so why should I listen to any reason why he should be demoted?

Hes an average RF offensively right now and with just using my eyes hes one of the best defensive RF.

Why would you demote an above average player?

lidspinner
06-13-2009, 11:37 AM
But he can field the ball, which makes the strikeouts bearable

I'll agree with that. At some point even the biggest of JB fans have to agree that JB either needs demoted or sat down for a few games and told to watch some video of him swinging at balls out of the strike zone.

quick story time....when I was a freshman in high school, Hal Morris came to our practice and talked to us. He said that he and his coach watched every out that he made on film.....for every time he swung at a pitch out of the strike zone and made an out, he owed money to his charity and he had to sign autographs for 15 minutes. JB might be doing this already (watching film) but he sure needs to adjust something

GIDP
06-13-2009, 11:39 AM
Bruce is showing signs of improvement in both K% and BB% over last season.

Ghosts of 1990
06-13-2009, 12:11 PM
I don't understand it.

DTCromer
06-13-2009, 01:22 PM
You refuse to listen to any reason why he shouldnt be demoted so why should I listen to any reason why he should be demoted?

Hes an average RF offensively right now and with just using my eyes hes one of the best defensive RF.

Why would you demote an above average player?

Where did I say he should be demoted? I think he's close to GG quality in RF.

I just think it's funny how Jay is one of the few protected guys on this board compared to some other guys. Does Wily deserve the criticism? Absolutely.

But with Jay, we continue to talk about improving K/BB rate and BABIP all the while he's flirting with a .200 BA. Who cares if his K/BB rate is improving if he can't the ball?

bleedsred
06-13-2009, 01:39 PM
What good will a demotion do for Jay Bruce? Sit him against LHP...ok. But if Bruce is out of the lineup down in AAA then the Reds really look awful. Talk about small ball....

The way he hits LHP though, Dusty should bat him second. Works for Taveras....

GIDP
06-13-2009, 01:43 PM
I dont know why I didnt pick up on you thinking he shouldnt get demoted. My mistake.

GIDP
06-13-2009, 01:44 PM
What good will a demotion do for Jay Bruce? Sit him against LHP...ok. But if Bruce is out of the lineup down in AAA then the Reds really look awful. Talk about small ball....

The way he hits LHP though, Dusty should bat him second. Works for Taveras....

"Willy has speed, speed is useless unless you give it every chance to be used" - Dusty

Its a fake quote but we all know he thinks it haha.

Ghosts of 1990
06-13-2009, 03:25 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090610&content_id=5254542&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin&partnerId=rss_cin

Good read on Jay's outlook right now during his slump. God I hope he starts getting a few more knocks here and there. It's killing me.

Krawhitham
06-14-2009, 02:13 PM
You refuse to listen to any reason why he shouldnt be demoted so why should I listen to any reason why he should be demoted?

Hes an average RF offensively right now and with just using my eyes hes one of the best defensive RF.

Why would you demote an above average player?


he ranks 19th of 23 in RC27 for RF in the majors
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?split=0&league=mlb&season=2009&seasonType=2&sort=runsCreatedPer27Outs&type=sab&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&state=0&college=0&country=0&hand=a&pos=rf&startDate=null&endDate=null&minpa=0
Only 5 players have a worse Zone Rating than Jay in the majors for RF
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2009&seasonType=2&split=85&sortOrder=true&sortColumn=zoneRating

please tell me again how he is above average

GIDP
06-14-2009, 02:58 PM
Sample size can throw off those numbers pretty easy. Especially zone rating.

Ghosts of 1990
06-14-2009, 03:39 PM
he stinks right now, send him down. I'm tired of this and I'm tired of watching it. I've lost all patience with him. This isn't going to end well as it stands. Do whatever, send him down. I don't care anymore.

WILD THING
06-14-2009, 03:43 PM
Bring back Darnell, put Bruce in Dayton to help rejuvenate their season :p:

Just about everybody in a Reds uniform is struggling right now. Things will work themselves out. Although a little effort from Dusty would be nice. Gonzo in the 2 spot last night? I expect Bruce to be back to the way we know he can play soon. He's a great player with tremendous upside, I find it hard to believe that he'll keep struggling like this for much longer.

Ghosts of 1990
06-14-2009, 03:45 PM
I think this actually will go on all season for Jay. I don't really know why, but he's not having any luck (probably because thats what happens when I root for a player). Everything he hits hard is right at someone. He can do nothing right.

Thing is, there's no one better to put in the outfield. Our 4 and 5 hole guys weren't even in baseball last few seasons (Nix, Gomes). This is the worst lineup I've seen in my 25 years of following not just the Reds but the sport in general. No one in this lineup hits. It's absolutely embarrassing and pathetic.

WILD THING
06-14-2009, 03:47 PM
But the fact that we're still in the division race this far into the season with our terrible lineup and no Joey Votto is a miracle. If we somehow stay in the thick of things and Joey comes back healthy, EE comes back and provides some solid right handed power, we could make a run at the playoffs.

DTCromer
06-17-2009, 03:34 PM
Last 10 games:

7/30 .233/.394 OBP

8 BB
4K's

Slowly, coming around