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Fon Duc Tow
06-07-2009, 12:27 PM
Joey's Dad passed away last summer I believe?



I agree that a person's well-being (physical, mental, and emotional) is far more important than any stupid game.

That's why they should let him take as much time as he needs, without pay.

Brett Favre lost his father and then came out and threw for almost 400 yards. Life is pain...anyone who tells you differently is selling something.

If he is missing time because of losing his Dad at this point, then they need to take away the paychecks. Think about it. What if you called your employer Monday and told him you "won't be in to work for the next month or so because your Dad died last summer."

Maybe you have a special employer like Votto does that would pay you whether you worked or not, but for most of us "that dog would not hunt."

Suck it up, Joey. We all lose people we love. It is the cycle of life, and death is one of the few guarantees of life.

It sounds cold, but taking the paycheck away has a funny way of bringing people back to reality.

Jack Burton
06-07-2009, 12:35 PM
I think a clear definition by the FO is in order along with an ETA on his return.

BLEEDS
06-07-2009, 12:50 PM
It's a personal issue that he's told the team and FO about, and ASKED THEM TO KEEP PRIVATE.

Get over it.

It's none of your darn business.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Old NDN
06-07-2009, 12:54 PM
I understand the right for privacy, to a point. But, players are somewhat public figures, due to the fact that their salaries are fan/attendance related. Therefore, fans have a right to know SOMETHING as to why one of their biggest stars isn't playing, IMO.

reds1869
06-07-2009, 12:57 PM
None of us on here knows a darn thing about Votto's personal situation, and if we do we are not sharing it per his wishes. This thread disgusts me.

JoeyGears76
06-07-2009, 01:09 PM
Joey's personal situation is just that, it's personal. And he's asked the Reds not to make it public. As fans of the Reds and Votto, we should respect his privacy and give him the benefit of the doubt. Do people really think that he is missing games for a non-serious reason? Does he really strike you as that kind of player?

I doubt if any of this has to do with his father's passing last August. If it did, do you really think he would've batted .309 with 9HRs and 20 RBIs last September and put up the numbers he has so far this season?

I believe it's something much more serious. The Reds and Votto do not owe me any explanation.

Joey.... take care of yourself and get back to us as soon as you can.

Carin4Narron
06-07-2009, 01:14 PM
If it's a personal issue, fine, I respect that. But the Reds have a history of misdiagnoing things. They might be using the ''stressed'' excuse to buy time to find out what's wrong with him.

Slyder
06-07-2009, 01:21 PM
Joey's Dad passed away last summer I believe?



I agree that a person's well-being (physical, mental, and emotional) is far more important than any stupid game.

That's why they should let him take as much time as he needs, without pay.

Brett Favre lost his father and then came out and threw for almost 400 yards. Life is pain...anyone who tells you differently is selling something.

If he is missing time because of losing his Dad at this point, then they need to take away the paychecks. Think about it. What if you called your employer Monday and told him you "won't be in to work for the next month or so because your Dad died last summer."

Maybe you have a special employer like Votto does that would pay you whether you worked or not, but for most of us "that dog would not hunt."

Suck it up, Joey. We all lose people we love. It is the cycle of life, and death is one of the few guarantees of life.

It sounds cold, but taking the paycheck away has a funny way of bringing people back to reality.

You would NEVER win that PR war.

You would alienate any fan that has ever had anything remotely close to that happen to their family.

You would alienate Votto.

You would alienate anyone currently on the team that were friends of Votto or knew of the situation.

You would be cold, unfeeling, uncaring among other things as other teams would spin this to their advantage with the few Free Agents in which we compete for.

You go all hardcore on Votto and I can guarentee you, you would lose more than just ball games.

Give Votto some space, you ever think maybe just maybe his mom might be real sick right now and wants to be there to help?

Fon Duc Tow
06-07-2009, 01:22 PM
I believe it's something much more serious.

I agree.



The Reds and Votto do not owe me any explanation.

Votto owes Baker an explanation, who in turn owes Jockerty an explanation, who in turn owes Castellini an explanation, who in turn owes each of us an explanation. Celebs always forget that a big reason their salaries are so huge is because of their loss of privacy. Fans pay quite the premium for it too.

Votto isn't doing anything wrong in my opinion. But if ownership is holding out info out of respect for Votto, then I'll have to hold out from buying any more tickets out of respect for the fact that us fans are not important enough to be kept abreast of the situation.




Joey.... take care of yourself and get back to us as soon as you can.

Amen.

Slyder
06-07-2009, 01:25 PM
Votto owes Baker an explanation, who in turn owes Jockerty an explanation, who in turn owes Castellini an explanation, who in turn owes each of us an explanation. Celebs always forget that a big reason their salaries are so huge is because of their loss of privacy. Fans pay quite the premium for it too.

Votto isn't doing anything wrong in my opinion. But if ownership is holding out info out of respect for Votto, then I'll have to hold out from buying any more tickets out of respect for the fact that us fans are not important enough to be kept abreast of the situation.


They dont owe us jack. It doesnt affect our daily lives: Whether or not we pay or listen, it wont affect us buying that Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Edison Volquez replica jersey. It wont keep us from going to the ballpark and paying 6 bucks for a pepsi. Thats ur choice, apparently youve never had anyone work under you if you did you would realize theres more to it than this.

Joey told the Reds what was up get off his back. He asked the Reds to keep it quiet which theyve obligued. I hope youre never in this type of situation.

jmac
06-07-2009, 01:34 PM
Joey's Dad passed away last summer I believe?



I agree that a person's well-being (physical, mental, and emotional) is far more important than any stupid game.

That's why they should let him take as much time as he needs, without pay.

Brett Favre lost his father and then came out and threw for almost 400 yards. Life is pain...anyone who tells you differently is selling something.

If he is missing time because of losing his Dad at this point, then they need to take away the paychecks. Think about it. What if you called your employer Monday and told him you "won't be in to work for the next month or so because your Dad died last summer."

Maybe you have a special employer like Votto does that would pay you whether you worked or not, but for most of us "that dog would not hunt."

Suck it up, Joey. We all lose people we love. It is the cycle of life, and death is one of the few guarantees of life.

It sounds cold, but taking the paycheck away has a funny way of bringing people back to reality.
If Joey's problem is what I think it is, there is "no" sucking it up. It will take time and patience. It is one of those things where no one truly understands unless you have experienced the problem.
As far as the paychecks......I am sure that is the least of Joey's thinking right now.

steig
06-07-2009, 02:23 PM
You would NEVER win that PR war.

You would alienate any fan that has ever had anything remotely close to that happen to their family.

You would alienate Votto.

You would alienate anyone currently on the team that were friends of Votto or knew of the situation.

You would be cold, unfeeling, uncaring among other things as other teams would spin this to their advantage with the few Free Agents in which we compete for.

You go all hardcore on Votto and I can guarentee you, you would lose more than just ball games.

Give Votto some space, you ever think maybe just maybe his mom might be real sick right now and wants to be there to help?

I agree with you that everyone and the media should give Votto his space and time away from the game to get things straightened out.

However, I know that if I needed to take time away from my work for personal reasons possibly similar to this situation it would be without pay and I could only be gone for a set time before they required me to return.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 02:28 PM
It's a personal issue that he's told the team and FO about, and ASKED THEM TO KEEP PRIVATE.

Get over it.

It's none of your darn business.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

+1

It is laughable to me that people here are speculating it has anything to do with his father passing. It doesn't. Why are people making that correlation?

If you don't know 100% what it is and you haven't been through it, it's best not to just say 'suck it up'. If the guy has a chemical imbalance, he's not able to 'suck it up'. It's not that simple.

sabometrics
06-07-2009, 07:15 PM
This entire thread is absurd. The "we're entitled to everything," and "Joey is not entitled to take off the time that is necessary to address his personal issues" vibe is just disgusting.

In his time as a Red, if nothing else, it's clear that Joey is a gamer - he wants to be out there, and he wants to improve. Clearly something serious is keeping him off the field. Everyone needs to just respect that and stop demanding answers.

GIDP
06-07-2009, 07:17 PM
Its gonna get to a point where Joey will owe the fans at least some info. Can't expect us to sit back and just cheer for a guy who doesnt seem to talk about when hes going bad.

sabometrics
06-07-2009, 07:26 PM
He doesn't need to worry about what anybody else thinks of him right now. In fact that may be a huge part of the reason he's in the situation he is in right now. We just don't know.

He needs to focus on numero uno until he feels good enough to come back. Once he feels good enough to come back, then he can start worrying about the fans. I know those of us who consider ourselves dedicated fans have some little part of us that feels entitled to know, but we all need to realize we have no part in this equation.

FlyerFanatic
06-07-2009, 07:27 PM
the losing isnt going to help the whole votto situation either. baker and co better be ready for those questions to come their way

GIDP
06-07-2009, 07:30 PM
He doesn't need to worry about what anybody else thinks of him right now. He needs to focus on numero uno until he feels good enough to come back. Once he feels good enough to come back, then he can start worrying about the fans. I know those of us who consider us dedicated fans have some little part of us that feels entitled to know, but we all need to realize we have no part in this equation.

The fans are entitled to get at least a statement or a interview from him. If he comes back and doesnt say anything and dodges reporters I'm probably gonna be pretty frustrated with him in general.

All we know is that hes stressed over an inner ear infection. If its something else then dont blame the fans for getting a little tired of the act when we only can go on what we have.

JoeyGears76
06-07-2009, 07:30 PM
Its gonna get to a point where Joey will owe the fans at least some info. Can't expect us to sit back and just cheer for a guy who doesnt seem to talk about when hes going bad.

Suppose the Reds call a press conference tomorrow morning and tell all about whatever it is Joey's going through. How in the world is that going to get him back in the lineup any faster?

All the fans need to know is that Joey is going through some difficult times and is unable to play right now.

LouisvilleCARDS
06-07-2009, 07:35 PM
Dude, get a grip. Life is more important than some made up sport where hitting a ball with a piece of wood is the goal. Seriously. Everyone is upset with the teams play lately, but you don't have a damn clue whatsoever about whats going on with Joey Votto, so why make stupid posts like this?

GIDP
06-07-2009, 07:37 PM
Suppose the Reds call a press conference tomorrow morning and tell all about whatever it is Joey's going through. How in the world is that going to get him back in the lineup any faster?

All the fans need to know is that Joey is going through some difficult times and is unable to play right now.

Its not, I think they are babying him and they probably should to a point.

The fans need to know that hes not stressed over an inner ear infection if thats now what is going on. Its something weak and fans should be upset with it. Votto has fans, and those fans deserve to know a little more than what they do know.

JoeyGears76
06-07-2009, 07:42 PM
Its not, I think they are babying him and they probably should to a point.

The fans need to know that hes not stressed over an inner ear infection if thats now what is going on. Its something weak and fans should be upset with it. Votto has fans, and those fans deserve to know a little more than what they do know.

I agree that the "stress" reason is weak. However, as a Votto fan, I do not feel I deserve or am entitled to any more than that.

GIDP
06-07-2009, 07:51 PM
I agree that the "stress" reason is weak. However, as a Votto fan, I do not feel I deserve or am entitled to any more than that.

I dont expect him to get in to details, but yea I do think the fans deserve to at least hear from Joey and hear about what is going on. If he comes back, does a rehab and just ignores it I will probably be a little upset with the way he handled it.

LouisvilleCARDS
06-07-2009, 08:03 PM
I'm sure in time he'll talk about it. What the heck is talking about it now going to help? Maybe it will make it even worse. So really, I don't see why anyone should be bringing this up. It's more like you want to know for your own selfish reasons so you can whine/complain or whatever else while he's out. Some of you couldn't care less about the guy as a person, as long as he's raking hits and getting on base he's your best friend. Give me a break.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 08:09 PM
I don't think that Votto owes us any explanation. Baseball players feel their personal lives are on display enough with all the web and internet and papers talking about them all the time. I honestly think Votto could be considered a question mark for the rest of his career. There is no guaruntee he'll ever be back as an everyday player. It could just be one of those things. I'm glad Alonso will be ready in the next few years. Another reason why Dunn would have been worth the money.

kfm
06-07-2009, 08:34 PM
Joey's Dad passed away last summer I believe?



I agree that a person's well-being (physical, mental, and emotional) is far more important than any stupid game.

That's why they should let him take as much time as he needs, without pay.

Brett Favre lost his father and then came out and threw for almost 400 yards. Life is pain...anyone who tells you differently is selling something.

If he is missing time because of losing his Dad at this point, then they need to take away the paychecks. Think about it. What if you called your employer Monday and told him you "won't be in to work for the next month or so because your Dad died last summer."

Maybe you have a special employer like Votto does that would pay you whether you worked or not, but for most of us "that dog would not hunt."

Suck it up, Joey. We all lose people we love. It is the cycle of life, and death is one of the few guarantees of life.

It sounds cold, but taking the paycheck away has a funny way of bringing people back to reality.

More proof that fan is short for fanatic. This is one of the most disgusting post I have ever read, but I am not suprised at all. I don't know why some people even watch sports since they hate athletes so much.

MrLarryJohnson
06-07-2009, 08:44 PM
If there is nothing bothering him physically than I think he is being a baby. sorry if that seems insensitive but he is making a ton of cash to be the best player on a team and is completely letting down his teamates right now. If I were a reds player right now and took a look around and realized the leader of the team is taking days off because of stress I am losing more and more respect in him by the day.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 08:49 PM
If there is nothing bothering him physically than I think he is being a baby. sorry if that seems insensitive but he is making a ton of cash to be the best player on a team and is completely letting down his teamates right now. If I were a reds player right now and took a look around and realized the leader of the team is taking days off because of stress I am losing more and more respect in him by the day.

I think it's wrong to turn on the guy because he's having some problems, be they mental or physical.

From what I'm reading and hearing, he's struggling with anxiety. You could only know if you've been down that road, but it's not something you can control or think away or just "tough it out". It's a chemical imbalance and it is an illness. It is something that needs careful attention to get under control. It certainly does not mean he's being a baby or that you should lose respect for him for something he cannot help.

It might say he is out or DL'd due to "stress" but they aren't coming out and saying the real reason. I've heard two things, one is that he is having issues with a vestibular disorder and they don't know what is causing it (they think it could be anxiety) and the other is that he's having problems with anxiety alone. Either way, that's more serious then stress. And the real reason could even more something more serious then just stress. I can give you my word, it's more then just him not being able to handle the pressure of being a big leaguer. Stress is a bad word for it.

Just send good Karma and well wishes his way. It stinks that he is out, I hate it too but I am not gonna knock this guy who is obviously struggling with something scary with his health and realizing his own mortality at 25. I've been there. It's awful.

MrLarryJohnson
06-07-2009, 08:50 PM
More proof that fan is short for fanatic. This is one of the most disgusting post I have ever read, but I am not suprised at all. I don't know why some people even watch sports since they hate athletes so much.

Its not that disgusting. If I took a bunch of time off from my job for stress it would be unpaid. period. People get sick of athletes because they make a ton of money for playing a kid's game and then they are allowed to act like babies. If I had the pure talent of Joey Votto and didn't have anything physically wrong and was watching my friends and teamates fall apart in front of me you wouldn't be able to keep me away from the field.

Of course it is the losing that fans are getting upset with joey, but what do you expect? the reds are losing because Joey Votto is not in that lineup, I do not care what anyone says. the 100% reason the reds are in a downward spiral is because of Joey Votto, and I hope he knows it.

JoeyGears76
06-07-2009, 08:50 PM
If there is nothing bothering him physically than I think he is being a baby. sorry if that seems insensitive but he is making a ton of cash to be the best player on a team and is completely letting down his teamates right now. If I were a reds player right now and took a look around and realized the leader of the team is taking days off because of stress I am losing more and more respect in him by the day.

Ton of cash? Doesn't Votto make the league minimum? :rolleyes:

MrLarryJohnson
06-07-2009, 08:53 PM
Ton of cash? Doesn't Votto make the league minimum? :rolleyes:

390,000 isn't a ton of cash in your opinion? What do you do for a living where this is amount is chump change?

kfm
06-07-2009, 08:59 PM
If there is nothing bothering him physically than I think he is being a baby. sorry if that seems insensitive but he is making a ton of cash to be the best player on a team and is completely letting down his teamates right now. If I were a reds player right now and took a look around and realized the leader of the team is taking days off because of stress I am losing more and more respect in him by the day.

I am not sure what is wrong or isn't wrong with Votto, but I am not sure what your post means. Does it mean that you don't understand that mental ilness actually manifest itself in physical symptoms and you don't care about anything other than broken legs and hamstring pulls. Or do you think he is just feeling a little down and that is why he is missing games. Mental illness is as real as cancer or diabetes or heart disease. I would think at this point in time more people would understand that. DO you really think the amount of money he makes has anything to do with an illness. Does your amount of cash not make cancer painful or less real, but somehow it matters if it is mental illness or something "not physical. What amazes me most about this entire thread is it once again proves that fans could care less about any player they are nothing but fungible pieces of meat who play in the arena for our enjoyment and the second they do something that does not prove to us how dedicated they are to the game or that they love our team as much as we do or they don't smile or look happy we turn on them.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 09:07 PM
I am not sure what is wrong or isn't wrong with Votto, but I am not sure what your post means. Does it mean that you don't understand that mental ilness actually manifest itself in physical symptoms and you don't care about anything other than broken legs and hamstring pulls. Or do you think he is just feeling a little down and that is why he is missing games. Mental illness is as real as cancer or diabetes or heart disease. I would think at this point in time more people would understand that. DO you really think the amount of money he makes has anything to do with an illness. Does your amount of cash not make cancer painful or less real, but somehow it matters if it is mental illness or something "not physical. What amazes me most about this entire thread is it once again proves that fans could care less about any player they are nothing but fungible pieces of meat who play in the arena for our enjoyment and the second they do something that does not prove to us how dedicated they are to the game or that they love our team as much as we do or they don't smile or look happy we turn on them.

I feel the same way. Great post, especially with the bolded.

MrLarryJohnson
06-07-2009, 09:07 PM
All I know is a couple games before he went on the DL he came in and hit two homers and was all smiles. His mental illness didn't seem to be effecting his swing much so if he is able to his .320 and hit home runs while feeling depressed then he should go out there and do it for 3 hours a day. If he is able to do that then he is letting down his teammates. I understand depression is a serious thing, do not agree it is as serious as cancer, but it is serious nonetheless. Also, everyone is saying that is the problem but no one really knows that, he might just not be able to take the pressure of being one of the best hitters on earth. If that is the case, he needs to suck it up and get back on the horse.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 09:11 PM
All I know is a couple games before he went on the DL he came in and hit two homers and was all smiles. His mental illness didn't seem to be effecting his swing much so if he is able to his .320 and hit home runs while feeling depressed then he should go out there and do it for 3 hours a day. If he is able to do that then he is letting down his teammates. I understand depression is a serious thing, do not agree it is as serious as cancer, but it is serious nonetheless. Also, everyone is saying that is the problem but no one really knows that, he might just not be able to take the pressure of being one of the best hitters on earth. If that is the case, he needs to suck it up and get back on the horse.

I went through something similar I BELIEVE that Votto is going through now. If it is at all like what I experienced in the summer of 2004, you have spurts where you are like "Ok I'm finally normal".

I'd have days where I was so dizzy I could not walk. I struggled through every day of work that summer. I would not be able to walk after getting off an elevator. I'd spend an entire morning struggling to breath at my desk at work and my heart would pound away. There was no rhyme or reason to my symptoms. Sometimes on those days I'd go home at night, take a nap and then go running for an hour. Some nights those symptoms of dizziness would continue long into the night and not subside until I was asleep. I thought I was dying. At age 21. Doctor said it was just anxiety. I got on some medicine and after several months of taking it, it got better. Just at the end of 2007 did I decide to get off that medicine after I felt I could control it myself. As it made me very numb and not able to care about anything I felt. But if it is anxiety or its part of the equation I know exactly what Votto is going through and it will be one of the toughest battles of his life.

I just hope Joe doesn't read this thread and think that his own fans from his own team's city are turning on him for something he did not ask for.

JoeyGears76
06-07-2009, 09:13 PM
I am not sure what is wrong or isn't wrong with Votto, but I am not sure what your post means. Does it mean that you don't understand that mental ilness actually manifest itself in physical symptoms and you don't care about anything other than broken legs and hamstring pulls. Or do you think he is just feeling a little down and that is why he is missing games. Mental illness is as real as cancer or diabetes or heart disease. I would think at this point in time more people would understand that. DO you really think the amount of money he makes has anything to do with an illness. Does your amount of cash not make cancer painful or less real, but somehow it matters if it is mental illness or something "not physical. What amazes me most about this entire thread is it once again proves that fans could care less about any player they are nothing but fungible pieces of meat who play in the arena for our enjoyment and the second they do something that does not prove to us how dedicated they are to the game or that they love our team as much as we do or they don't smile or look happy we turn on them.

Great post! :thumbup:

MrLarryJohnson
06-07-2009, 09:15 PM
Yea, that is def. a tough situation. Wow, if Votto is out for 2-3 seasons he just pwned this franchise.

Jones1
06-07-2009, 09:16 PM
What ever happens with Joey is out of this ball clubs control. What is in there control is to get Edwin ready ASAP and trade for an RBI bat PERIOD.

BluegrassRedleg
06-07-2009, 09:23 PM
I don't like to question guys when they're legitimately hurt or struggling with an issue. I've been in that position before as a player, and it's no fun. You want to compete, you want to be helping your team, but sometimes your body just doesn't cooperate. I'm pulling for Joey to overcome whatever it is... and no matter how long it takes.

BurgervilleBuck
06-07-2009, 09:30 PM
I miss Joey Votto. I want Joey Votto back at 100%. If this time away gets him back to 100%, then that's what it'll take.

Anything else is mere speculation.

kfm
06-07-2009, 09:37 PM
All I know is a couple games before he went on the DL he came in and hit two homers and was all smiles. His mental illness didn't seem to be effecting his swing much so if he is able to his .320 and hit home runs while feeling depressed then he should go out there and do it for 3 hours a day. If he is able to do that then he is letting down his teammates. I understand depression is a serious thing, do not agree it is as serious as cancer, but it is serious nonetheless. Also, everyone is saying that is the problem but no one really knows that, he might just not be able to take the pressure of being one of the best hitters on earth. If that is the case, he needs to suck it up and get back on the horse.

So your point is, since he was fine one day he must be fine the next day. Or since he was able to perform for a time, he must always be able to perform. I liked your argument better when I just thought you were ignorant of mental illness, now it turns out you just dont care.

Fon Duc Tow
06-07-2009, 09:53 PM
I am not questioning Votto's behavior or his illness whatever that may be.

I am questioning the "he has his right to privacy" defense. Not when it comes to his playing time he doesn't.

If he does, then lets turn all the cameras off and see how the salaries adjust. :rolleyes:

The cameras, the pressure, the non-stop attention to every detail, the lack of privacy, this is why professional athletes are paid as well as they are.

Plus, I had to point out that pretty much every employer would not still be issuing paychecks under these circumstances, so I am sorry that sounds "disgusting" to so many people here.

As the days go by, and the losses go by, more and more will at least entertain the question that is the title of my post. And I know some fans think that "if Joey needs to take all year off with pay, then there is still nothing to question." That's fine.

But to act like the question is out of line at this point? Sorry but I disagree.

kfm
06-07-2009, 10:11 PM
I am not questioning Votto's behavior or his illness whatever that may be.

I am questioning the "he has his right to privacy" defense. Not when it comes to his playing time he doesn't.

If he does, then lets turn all the cameras off and see how the salaries adjust. :rolleyes:

The cameras, the pressure, the non-stop attention to every detail, the lack of privacy, this is why professional athletes are paid as well as they are.

Plus, I had to point out that pretty much every employer would not still be issuing paychecks under these circumstances, so I am sorry that sounds "disgusting" to so many people here.

As the days go by, and the losses go by, more and more will at least entertain the question that is the title of my post. And I know some fans think that "if Joey needs to take all year off with pay, then there is still nothing to question." That's fine.

But to act like the question is out of line at this point? Sorry but I disagree.

Have you ever heard of disability. I can't belive I have to explain this but there are people all over this country today who are being paid either by their employer or by an insurance company who are out on some type of disability and mental illness counts as a medical disability. I have employees out on disability right now. THey still get paid. Have you ever heard of permanent disability? Guess what because of HIPPA, and rightfully so, I have no right to know what is wrong with a person as it is a private matter. That information is protected by law. Why do you believe that you are entitled to know someone's personal medical condition? You don't morally or legally. I am sorry you feel that way, but curiosty is not an entitlement to someone's private medical information. Slapping down $60 for a ticket to a baseball game or watching them on TV or buying a t-shirt with the team name on it does not change that fact.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 10:24 PM
Have you ever heard of disability. I can't belive I have to explain this but there are people all over this country today who are being paid either by their employer or by an insurance company who are out on some type of disability and mental illness counts as a medical disability. I have employees out on disability right now. THey still get paid. Have you ever heard of permanent disability? Guess what because of HIPPA, and rightfully so, I have no right to know what is wrong with a person as it is a private matter. That information is protected by law. Why do you believe that you are entitled to know someone's personal medical condition? You don't morally or legally. I am sorry you feel that way, but curiosty is not an entitlement to someone's private medical information. Slapping down $60 for a ticket to a baseball game or watching them on TV or buying a t-shirt with the team name on it does not change that fact.

Well said kfm. I tend to agree with you, as bad as I'd like to know about Joey, I am not surprised at all that he hasn't come out and said it and I never expect to know fully unless I get some info from the inside. Even then, it's none of my business.

Zimmers
06-07-2009, 10:59 PM
Wow! The opinions on here are just that opinions but why kick a guy while hes down? Joey is a baseball player and a damn good one but hes human and not superman! I want him back asap but if hes got something going on thats affecting him then so be it. If hes battling a mental illness then thats more serious than any kind of physical injury! What if he woke up one day and decided he didnt want to live anymore because he was told to suck it up you have to play for the fans? Thats a ignorant and unjustified opinion. Sorry for the ramble but i post from a cell phone!

steig
06-07-2009, 11:28 PM
I am not sure what is wrong or isn't wrong with Votto, but I am not sure what your post means. Does it mean that you don't understand that mental ilness actually manifest itself in physical symptoms and you don't care about anything other than broken legs and hamstring pulls. Or do you think he is just feeling a little down and that is why he is missing games. Mental illness is as real as cancer or diabetes or heart disease. I would think at this point in time more people would understand that. DO you really think the amount of money he makes has anything to do with an illness. Does your amount of cash not make cancer painful or less real, but somehow it matters if it is mental illness or something "not physical. What amazes me most about this entire thread is it once again proves that fans could care less about any player they are nothing but fungible pieces of meat who play in the arena for our enjoyment and the second they do something that does not prove to us how dedicated they are to the game or that they love our team as much as we do or they don't smile or look happy we turn on them.

Good post

I've never met Votto and I probably never will meet him. I think he probably is a good guy and I wish him the best in getting over his "issues". However, as a fan of this team I want to see the Reds win. This is a small market team which will not be able to keep a lot of big name talent around. I don't want the team to bank on Votto as the leader and future of this team if he possibly has these health or personal issues that could come up. As a business the Reds need someone they can count on to be their leader. I hope Votto gets healthy and can help this team. When he is better, the Reds need to start considering how they are going to move beyond Votto in the future, whether when he goes to arbitration or wait out until free agency.

freestyle55
06-07-2009, 11:37 PM
This thread is a good reason why players are pulling away from fans more and more. People wonder why players don't sign autographs or love to do the meet and greets...people wonder why players are less willing to go out of there way for them...

Just read half this thread...you'll see why. And it also implies a little about why it's hard to get name talent to come to this town as well.

He doesn't owe "you" or anyone other than his management an explanation, he's a human being, not a commodity...

I used to think HIPAA was a pain, but this is one time I'm glad it's there. Honestly, I think I respect Votto more for keeping it private if that's how he wants and not being pressured into it.

Slyder
06-08-2009, 12:27 AM
I am questioning the "he has his right to privacy" defense. Not when it comes to his playing time he doesn't.

If he does, then lets turn all the cameras off and see how the salaries adjust. :rolleyes:

The cameras, the pressure, the non-stop attention to every detail, the lack of privacy, this is why professional athletes are paid as well as they are.

Plus, I had to point out that pretty much every employer would not still be issuing paychecks under these circumstances, so I am sorry that sounds "disgusting" to so many people here.

As the days go by, and the losses go by, more and more will at least entertain the question that is the title of my post. And I know some fans think that "if Joey needs to take all year off with pay, then there is still nothing to question." That's fine.

But to act like the question is out of line at this point? Sorry but I disagree.

Every person has a right to privacy. Even celebrities. The day you lose that is the day freedoms begin to die.

Again I take it youve never A) been an employer and B) Had anyone working under you by looking at your response or lack there of by multiple posters.

No those arent the reasons why athletes are paid that much. Athletes are paid that much because they bring that much money and then some into the coffers of their employers and then some.

Try to not pay someone with (insert medical/mental disability here) you would get sued so fast under American's with Disabilities Act, HIPPA, or FMLA, among other provisions that it would make your head spin. We have no business knowing whats going on with Joey V. The only ones whos business it is has been told by Joey. The Cincinnati Reds.

Again I hope you dont have any sort of responsibilities of merit at your work because your lack of understanding basic human nature leads me to believe you wouldnt last long dealing with people.

Captain Hook
06-08-2009, 03:16 AM
I am fine with how this is being handled by the Reds.I'm fine with Joey wanting this to remain a private issue.I'm fine having no explanation.

I admit that there is a part of me that thinks that Joey should get back if he is physically able to.As a fan I want to see my favorite team win and when they don't its easy to say that someone should get out there and play no matter what.When they can't you just want a reason why.Its easy to think this is owed to us after it has gone on for a while.The facts are though that he has given his employer the reason for his absence and that is enough as long as they accept it.

All of us must accept this as well.The team is loosing games because Joey is not playing.They will continue to do so as long as he sits.For the Reds to be a winning team Votto must play.We could say this guy didn't do this and that guy messed that up and thats why we lost but the truth is that the team is missing their best player.If everyone is willing to forgive Joey for not playing without explanation then the Reds should be given some forgiveness for not winning without explanation.

Fon Duc Tow
06-08-2009, 08:35 AM
No those arent the reasons why athletes are paid that much. Athletes are paid that much because they bring that much money and then some into the coffers of their employers and then some.

Too bad we can't turn the cameras off and test that theory.
To say the cameras, constant media attention, lack of privacy, etc are not big reasons why celebrities are paid what they are is laughable.


Again I hope you dont have any sort of responsibilities of merit at your work because your lack of understanding basic human nature leads me to believe you wouldnt last long dealing with people.

lol stop. :D




This thread is a good reason why players are pulling away from fans more and more. People wonder why players don't sign autographs or love to do the meet and greets...people wonder why players are less willing to go out of there way for them...

Uh no the reason would be the over developed sense of entitlement and the puzzling belief that they can have their cake and eat it too, perpetuated from an early age by certain "fans."




Just read half this thread...you'll see why. And it also implies a little about why it's hard to get name talent to come to this town as well.


If the Reds had the Yankees payroll, they could have the Yankees roster. "All those rude fans" have nothing to do with it, and money has everything to do with it.




He doesn't owe "you" or anyone other than his management an explanation, he's a human being, not a commodity...

He is a product of the Cincinnati Reds and Major League Baseball. He is a human being AND a high priced commodity.





For an ongoing issue like this, the more time goes by, the more the fans (baseball's equivalence to taxpayers) deserve an explanation. Some of you really like to put the players up on pedestals. "Take 5 years if you need it Joey, no explanation needed, we love you!"

As if I don't know what HIPPA is? That has nothing to do with providing the media with some kind of general clue as to why the Reds best player has been M.I.A. except for the rare instances he can take the field and hit 2 HRs before returning to the DL.


I get that Joey has a basic right to privacy. But there is a lot of gray area in between full disclosure and no disclosure. The leeway some of you are willing to give is baffling. I understand that this "uber-leeway" comes from rooting for a small market team that hasn't done very well of late. Even the Saltines taste like Ritz Crackers. You sure as heck don't want to break any. I understand the whole "Take Me Out to the Ball Game/ Casey at the Bat" sentimentality but that kind of baseball died with the million dollar salaries. Mr. AA guy can take all the time he needs, but Pete Rose would owe us an explanation, I'll put it that way.

kfm
06-08-2009, 10:16 AM
Too bad we can't turn the cameras off and test that theory.
To say the cameras, constant media attention, lack of privacy, etc are not big reasons why celebrities are paid what they are is laughable.



lol stop. :D





Uh no the reason would be the over developed sense of entitlement and the puzzling belief that they can have their cake and eat it too, perpetuated from an early age by certain "fans."




If the Reds had the Yankees payroll, they could have the Yankees roster. "All those rude fans" have nothing to do with it, and money has everything to do with it.




He is a product of the Cincinnati Reds and Major League Baseball. He is a human being AND a high priced commodity.





For an ongoing issue like this, the more time goes by, the more the fans (baseball's equivalence to taxpayers) deserve an explanation. Some of you really like to put the players up on pedestals. "Take 5 years if you need it Joey, no explanation needed, we love you!"

As if I don't know what HIPPA is? That has nothing to do with providing the media with some kind of general clue as to why the Reds best player has been M.I.A. except for the rare instances he can take the field and hit 2 HRs before returning to the DL.


I get that Joey has a basic right to privacy. But there is a lot of gray area in between full disclosure and no disclosure. The leeway some of you are willing to give is baffling. I understand that this "uber-leeway" comes from rooting for a small market team that hasn't done very well of late. Even the Saltines taste like Ritz Crackers. You sure as heck don't want to break any. I understand the whole "Take Me Out to the Ball Game/ Casey at the Bat" sentimentality but that kind of baseball died with the million dollar salaries. Mr. AA guy can take all the time he needs, but Pete Rose would owe us an explanation, I'll put it that way.

Your post reveals that you don't get that he has a right to privacy. Our "uber leeway" has nothing to do with rooting for a losing team. It has to do with a right to privacy and no matter how famous someone is, you don't own them. Why is it so hard for you to admit that some people just don't believe that they are entitled to know everything about a person because they make a bunch of cash? This is a very simple disagreement. You seem to think if you make enough money playing a sport then you owe the fans an explanation for everything. I have a suggestion, if you are so upset that you are not receivign the information you want from the Reds, in fact the information you believe you are ordained to receive by virtue of the fact you are a reds fan, why don't you just stop watching or going to games until Joey either personally tells you or the Reds tell you? Finally comparing fans to taxpayers is just silly. you don't want to pay taxes, you go to jail. You don't want to be a reds fan, I am pretty certain nothing will happen to you. "To say the cameras, constant media attention, lack of privacy, etc are not big reasons why celebrities are paid what they are is laughable." They are paid what they are paid based upon the money their industry is able to produce based upon comparison to similar players, or actors and the overall gross of an industry. But I guess we could go with your theory, which is because we know their personal medical information. That makes much more sense.

JoeyGears76
06-08-2009, 10:41 AM
If the Reds had the Yankees payroll, they could have the Yankees roster. "All those rude fans" have nothing to do with it, and money has everything to do with it.

This is Cincinnati and Cincinnati Reds fans embrace their players and support them. We are not New York, Boston, or Chicago.

markymark69
06-08-2009, 11:14 AM
Agree with most in saying that this post is over the top. Since we do not know what exactly is wrong with Votto, for any of us to assume we know is wrong, period.

Plus it has already been mentioned about all the regulations (HIPPA, FMLA, etc.) that we have today, not to mention the player's union and what a PR disaster this would be if the Reds tried to implement what was stated in the original post.

I wish Votto was back on the field, I wish I could do something to make him get over what ever is troubling him --- but I can't.

As far as a ton of cash. It's not a ton of cash compared to what the players make today. Granted the league minimum is still more than what the majority of us make in 10-15 years, but, that doesn't mean he is obligated to tell us what his problem is.

I like the compassion the Reds personally. We don't have enough of that in the world and that's probably a good reason why we're in the mess we're in.

The real bad thing about this post --- this makes me sound like a preacher. Thanks for that.

Calm down dude. Most employers have paid leaves of absence --- Votto is taking a leave of absence for reasons that are none of my (or your) business.

bubbachunk
06-08-2009, 11:26 AM
So he should not get paid because his injury (in this case mental) may not be a direct result of being on the field? Seems irrational and insensitive.

Slyder
06-08-2009, 11:58 AM
For an ongoing issue like this, the more time goes by, the more the fans (baseball's equivalence to taxpayers) deserve an explanation. Some of you really like to put the players up on pedestals. "Take 5 years if you need it Joey, no explanation needed, we love you!"

You do realize the Reds have known for the entire time right? You still make it sound like the Reds are as in the dark as we are, as in Votto just up and left middle of the night without anyone knowing. Votto told them, they know he asked them to not let the cat out of the bag. So far the Reds have lived up to their end and I think its safe to say will continue to honor that as long as Joey V wants them to.

It's none of our business to know everything going on about the guys playing for the Reds. Its the Reds responsibility to take care of those players that make them millions upon millions of dollars. And in this case the Reds have honored Votto's request to not make anything more public besides "stress related issues".

Again we as fans CHOOSE to spend money on the Reds. No one forces us to buy the Reds stuff unlike taxes.

jmble
06-08-2009, 12:44 PM
All of this speculating is driving me crazy. For all we know, it could be something much much worse that he is dealing with, and he's just not ready for it to get out to the public. Joey Votto's well being is far more important than my desire for him to help the Reds win.

Whatever is wrong is going to get out. In this day and age it always does. Even if he doesn't let it out, eventually someone will talk.

For now, just let the man deal with whatever he's going through. Save your judgement of him until you actually know what he's dealing with. Do you really think Dusty Baker and Walt Jocketty don't want Joey Votto back in the lineup as soon as possible? They know what he's worth to this team.

reds1869
06-08-2009, 01:38 PM
All of this speculating is driving me crazy. For all we know, it could be something much much worse that he is dealing with, and he's just not ready for it to get out to the public. Joey Votto's well being is far more important than my desire for him to help the Reds win.

Whatever is wrong is going to get out. In this day and age it always does. Even if he doesn't let it out, eventually someone will talk.

For now, just let the man deal with whatever he's going through. Save your judgement of him until you actually know what he's dealing with. Do you really think Dusty Baker and Walt Jocketty don't want Joey Votto back in the lineup as soon as possible? They know what he's worth to this team.

Well said.

:thumbup:

bounty37h
06-08-2009, 02:18 PM
Joey's Dad passed away last summer I believe?



I agree that a person's well-being (physical, mental, and emotional) is far more important than any stupid game.

That's why they should let him take as much time as he needs, without pay.

Brett Favre lost his father and then came out and threw for almost 400 yards. Life is pain...anyone who tells you differently is selling something.

If he is missing time because of losing his Dad at this point, then they need to take away the paychecks. Think about it. What if you called your employer Monday and told him you "won't be in to work for the next month or so because your Dad died last summer."

Maybe you have a special employer like Votto does that would pay you whether you worked or not, but for most of us "that dog would not hunt."

Suck it up, Joey. We all lose people we love. It is the cycle of life, and death is one of the few guarantees of life.

It sounds cold, but taking the paycheck away has a funny way of bringing people back to reality.

Hey Doc, where did you read it was over his fathers dad dying last summer, I havent heard anything in regards to that....

bounty37h
06-08-2009, 02:22 PM
I agree.



Votto owes Baker an explanation, who in turn owes Jockerty an explanation, who in turn owes Castellini an explanation, who in turn owes each of us an explanation. Celebs always forget that a big reason their salaries are so huge is because of their loss of privacy. Fans pay quite the premium for it too.

Votto isn't doing anything wrong in my opinion. But if ownership is holding out info out of respect for Votto, then I'll have to hold out from buying any more tickets out of respect for the fact that us fans are not important enough to be kept abreast of the situation.




Amen.

Great, now he is going to be out longer cause of the stress since he owes you so much. Joey, most of us are a little more human and understanding, and realize you don toer us anythgin other then to get better and take care of yourself first, then join the team again when your ready.

bounty37h
06-08-2009, 02:27 PM
The fans are entitled to get at least a statement or a interview from him. If he comes back and doesnt say anything and dodges reporters I'm probably gonna be pretty frustrated with him in general.

All we know is that hes stressed over an inner ear infection. If its something else then dont blame the fans for getting a little tired of the act when we only can go on what we have.

We dont know that at all, matter of fact, if you have read, Baker said it doesnt have to do with that, and that he cant say whats going on. Thats enough info for me to know it is something Votto needs to take care of and doesnt want to talk about, likely something personal and bad, not our business.

bounty37h
06-08-2009, 02:32 PM
Its not that disgusting. If I took a bunch of time off from my job for stress it would be unpaid. period. People get sick of athletes because they make a ton of money for playing a kid's game and then they are allowed to act like babies. If I had the pure talent of Joey Votto and didn't have anything physically wrong and was watching my friends and teamates fall apart in front of me you wouldn't be able to keep me away from the field.

Of course it is the losing that fans are getting upset with joey, but what do you expect? the reds are losing because Joey Votto is not in that lineup, I do not care what anyone says. the 100% reason the reds are in a downward spiral is because of Joey Votto, and I hope he knows it.

If oyu havent relaized by now there are many differences in your job and how things are handled and MLB'ers, well, good luck to ya. I am embarrased by some fans on here, as fans, and people in general.

bounty37h
06-08-2009, 02:37 PM
This thread is a good reason why players are pulling away from fans more and more. People wonder why players don't sign autographs or love to do the meet and greets...people wonder why players are less willing to go out of there way for them...

Just read half this thread...you'll see why. And it also implies a little about why it's hard to get name talent to come to this town as well.

He doesn't owe "you" or anyone other than his management an explanation, he's a human being, not a commodity...

I used to think HIPAA was a pain, but this is one time I'm glad it's there. Honestly, I think I respect Votto more for keeping it private if that's how he wants and not being pressured into it.


:beerme: +1+

MrLarryJohnson
06-08-2009, 03:31 PM
If oyu havent relaized by now there are many differences in your job and how things are handled and MLB'ers, well, good luck to ya. I am embarrased by some fans on here, as fans, and people in general.

I love how people in this thread keep on saying they are embarassed in the fans on here.

I just sooooooooo do not care you are embarassed in how I vented over the 5 hours I will never get back yesterday. That game made me never want to watch a reds game again. Good lord, runner on third less than 2 outs like 75 times just to see Rosales prove he has no business on a major league roster.

Fact: the reds are losing games at a ridiculous pace right now because Joey Votto is out of the lineup.

Fact: It is very frustrating watching this horrrrrrible Reds lineup without Votto.

Fact: The personal lives of these players does not effect my own. I hope the guy is ok, but it doesn't change the fact he is not playing and nothing is physically wrong with him.

Embarassing? how about defending a player for years and then he finally gets up to the big leagues to prove he is one of the best hitters on the planet and then have to explain that he is ruining the franchise because he is worried.

bounty37h
06-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Your very right, I am not embarrassed, wrong word all together, I simply feel sorry for you. It isnt about how you vented over a game, has nothgin to do with the game, its what you said. No one told you you had to waste 5 hours of your day that you will never get back now, would you have felt the same if we had won? Since you said you might never watch another game (fairweather walmart fandom), does that mean you will vanish on here too? What does Rosales have to do with Joey, woud he have not played if Joey was playing, I dont get what your after...

jimbo
06-08-2009, 04:30 PM
I love how people in this thread keep on saying they are embarassed in the fans on here.

I just sooooooooo do not care you are embarassed in how I vented over the 5 hours I will never get back yesterday. That game made me never want to watch a reds game again. Good lord, runner on third less than 2 outs like 75 times just to see Rosales prove he has no business on a major league roster.

Fact: the reds are losing games at a ridiculous pace right now because Joey Votto is out of the lineup.

Fact: It is very frustrating watching this horrrrrrible Reds lineup without Votto.

Fact: The personal lives of these players does not effect my own. I hope the guy is ok, but it doesn't change the fact he is not playing and nothing is physically wrong with him.

Embarassing? how about defending a player for years and then he finally gets up to the big leagues to prove he is one of the best hitters on the planet and then have to explain that he is ruining the franchise because he is worried.

So, in other words......it's all about YOU?

What a pathetic post. A prime example of what society is becoming.

Chip R
06-08-2009, 04:33 PM
Take your personal problems with each other private or this thread will be closed.

markymark69
06-08-2009, 04:44 PM
I love how people in this thread keep on saying they are embarassed in the fans on here.

I just sooooooooo do not care you are embarassed in how I vented over the 5 hours I will never get back yesterday. That game made me never want to watch a reds game again. Good lord, runner on third less than 2 outs like 75 times just to see Rosales prove he has no business on a major league roster.

Fact: the reds are losing games at a ridiculous pace right now because Joey Votto is out of the lineup.

Fact: It is very frustrating watching this horrrrrrible Reds lineup without Votto.

Fact: The personal lives of these players does not effect my own. I hope the guy is ok, but it doesn't change the fact he is not playing and nothing is physically wrong with him.

Embarassing? how about defending a player for years and then he finally gets up to the big leagues to prove he is one of the best hitters on the planet and then have to explain that he is ruining the franchise because he is worried.

First of all, I think it's a more than simply being worried about something. Question for you? Does it change anything if he comes clean and reveals what the issue is but still continues to miss games? Other than fact than maybe you would make fun of him or maybe you would understand, it wouldn't change anything. You would most likely feel the same way and he still would be missing games.

Just because he would reveal what is problem is and perhaps even refuse to take his check, it doesn't change anything, it won't get him back in the lineup.

What if he has vertigo which brought about the dizziness and he doesn't know what to do to fix the problem which perhaps he feels has put his career in jeopardy and that brought about the stress (or to use your word worry)?

Some on here think that just because its stress related --- that makes him some kind of weakling? We have no idea what it is? But, the scenario that I present could be a possibility as to what is wrong? If so, that could be a serious problem for him, people deal with issues in different ways. Maybe you could handle it? If so, good for you.

Perhaps you're right that the problem is really nothing and he is weak? Does that make you feel better? Superior to him? If it is that much of a problem to you and to Fon Duc Toe --- either hang with 'em or root for a different team because you and I ain't finding out unless Votto wants us to and it seems pretty clear that he doesn't want to do that.

LouisvilleCARDS
06-08-2009, 04:50 PM
I am not sure what is wrong or isn't wrong with Votto, but I am not sure what your post means. Does it mean that you don't understand that mental ilness actually manifest itself in physical symptoms and you don't care about anything other than broken legs and hamstring pulls. Or do you think he is just feeling a little down and that is why he is missing games. Mental illness is as real as cancer or diabetes or heart disease. I would think at this point in time more people would understand that. DO you really think the amount of money he makes has anything to do with an illness. Does your amount of cash not make cancer painful or less real, but somehow it matters if it is mental illness or something "not physical. What amazes me most about this entire thread is it once again proves that fans could care less about any player they are nothing but fungible pieces of meat who play in the arena for our enjoyment and the second they do something that does not prove to us how dedicated they are to the game or that they love our team as much as we do or they don't smile or look happy we turn on them.

Great post, I was about to post that, but luckily someone already pointed it out. I can't believe how classless and horrible some of these fans are being.

The guy is having problems. It's his LIFE. It's not his OBP. It's not how many RBI's he has. It's his LIFE. That's what some people don't seem to get. For all anyone knows here, he could be having some life threatening problems. And the problems he's having that are keeping him away from playing are as every bit as real as a torn ACL or injury. I don't see why people can't GET that and why people can't get that his LIFE is more important than hitting a ball around the field.

Rockermann
06-08-2009, 05:07 PM
The guy is having problems. It's his LIFE. It's not his OBP.

Okay... I'm not familiar with that one. LIFE? Long Infield Fly Efficiency? :D

lidspinner
06-08-2009, 06:57 PM
I dont agree with soem of you that are embarrassed by our fans. I dont think those fans but I love that our fans care about winnign baseball and thats it. They dont care if BPhil is snorting coke till the sun comes up...they care about wins and losses. Our fanbase forgave Pete Rose for petes sake, we only care about wins, and thats what makes rooting for the reds that much better than any other team....we are passionate. we are diehard....and if that means a few fans sit on Reds message boards all day demanding to know what is wrong with Joey, then so be it...I am sure Joey has bigger hurdles to cross than worrying about us fans. complain all you want reds fans....you will not embarrass me.

sivman17
06-08-2009, 07:26 PM
well unfortunately my post regarding joey's personal issue was removed, but all i can say is i don't think he needs to be ashamed of anything. like lid said, reds fans really only care about winning and we do not judge players based on what they do behind closed doors, as long as it's not something illegal or performance-enhancing. it'd be nice if he's just come out and say what's on his mind

MrLarryJohnson
06-08-2009, 07:44 PM
If he came out and said he is severely depressed I would understand, but as of right now it is a "stress related issue" which could mean anything.

Hell for all you guys know he may be battling a cocaine addiction.

MrLarryJohnson
06-08-2009, 07:45 PM
So, in other words......it's all about YOU?

What a pathetic post. A prime example of what society is becoming.

Haha example of what society is becoming? did you also get the meaning of life out of a Chinese fortune cookie after dinner last night?

paintmered
06-08-2009, 07:46 PM
The personal jabs end now. Last warning.

MrLarryJohnson
06-08-2009, 07:50 PM
Your very right, I am not embarrassed, wrong word all together, I simply feel sorry for you. It isnt about how you vented over a game, has nothgin to do with the game, its what you said. No one told you you had to waste 5 hours of your day that you will never get back now, would you have felt the same if we had won? Since you said you might never watch another game (fairweather walmart fandom), does that mean you will vanish on here too? What does Rosales have to do with Joey, woud he have not played if Joey was playing, I dont get what your after...

Yes, the lineup would be completely different with Votto in the lineup and chances are Rosales would be in Louisville.

MrLarryJohnson
06-08-2009, 07:54 PM
So, in other words......it's all about YOU?

What a pathetic post. A prime example of what society is becoming.

Guess what, I don't know the guy personally, if someone told Votto I had the same condition he would most likely say "ok, and I care why?" He reached celebrity and he is being put on a pedestal. Interesting nothing like this happened in his minor league career when he wasn't in the spotlight.

RedlegJake
06-08-2009, 08:06 PM
Okay, this thread is closed. There isn't much talk about Joey, and what is tossed out there is pure speculation. That's bad enough but this has turned into a back and forth bash. Each of us has our own opinion - and this has gotten nasty tit-for-tat back and forth is over. Start a new thread if you want BUT keep it to Joey, keep it civil, and keep unconfirmed rumors and trash talk out of it.