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View Full Version : The offense's lack of production falls on Brook Jacoby



Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 03:52 PM
I'm tired of seeing this team with a runner on third and less then 2 outs and we get nothing out of it. I don't think Brook Jacoby is a good hitting coach. In fact, I think whatever he is teaching in approach is making our hitters worse.

Who is Brook Jacoby anyways? He was a lifetime .270 hitter who reached .300 only once and only above .280 twice not counting the season he hit .300 on the button.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacobbr01.shtml

I think of this because I watched a feature this morning on Don Mattingly and how he has transcended the Dodgers hitting. Now that is a hitting coach. That is a guy who can make you better. But Brook Jacoby? I'm convinced he is the #1 problem. There's guys who are a lot more qualified to teach our hitters then this guy.

gilpdawg
06-07-2009, 03:59 PM
For the most part, hitting and pitching coaches don't do much. These guys know how to hit and pitch when they get here. It's very over-rated. Really all they can do is spot a flaw in somebody's delivery or something like that.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 04:06 PM
Of course whenever somebody gets hurt, or the offense slumps, somebody will blame the hitting coach. It never fails.

BluegrassRedleg
06-07-2009, 04:07 PM
For the most part, hitting and pitching coaches don't do much. These guys know how to hit and pitch when they get here. It's very over-rated. Really all they can do is spot a flaw in somebody's delivery or something like that.

Agree. Taking that last inning as an example, Jacoby can teach Hanigan everything right about hitting, but if Hanigan is hellbent on swinging at balls WAY out of the zone, there's nothing that can be done to correct that. The kid basically went up there and got himself out.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 04:59 PM
You need hitting coaches for when you get into slumps. When you aren't doing things mechanically correct. Or a good hitting coach will be able to really point out one thing when you're scuffling. Or he'll say something that puts you at ease.

I took a lot from that piece with the Dodgers/Mattingly this morning. The guy might be the finest hitting coach in baseball. When he says something, all ears are open to what he's saying because he was an amazing hitter. I just think a lot of what Jacoby teaches (even if we assume it's good info) might fall on deaf ears because he really wasn't any good.

BluegrassRedleg
06-07-2009, 05:55 PM
I guess I'm just from a different school of thought. I think players make plays. Coaches can prepare you and put you in the right spot, but ultimately it falls on you to make a play.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 05:58 PM
I'm sure Donnie Baseball is a wonderful hitting coach. Yet in the years he was the Yankees hitting coach they never made it to the series despite having a hugh payroll advantage. In 2003 the yankees made it to game 7 of the series with the incomparable Rick Down as their hitting coach. Down never played a game in the majors.

I am sure there are a lot of other great hitting coaches who were not great hitters. Was Leo Mazzoni a great pitcher? Was Jim Turner? Johnny Sain? What was the name of the great hitting coach from KC who was only a mediocre hitter? Not necesssarily a strict relationship between doing and teaching.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 06:06 PM
Hey, how many times in this game alone have we had runner on 3rd, less then 2 out with a chance to win it? I can count three. Didn't deliver any of those times. And time after time after time.

I mean when is it okay to blame Brook Jacoby?

gilpdawg
06-07-2009, 06:10 PM
Hey, how many times in this game alone have we had runner on 3rd, less then 2 out with a chance to win it? I can count three. Didn't deliver any of those times. And time after time after time.

I mean when is it okay to blame Brook Jacoby?
Never. Blame the players. Always.

GIDP
06-07-2009, 06:15 PM
Im pretty sure the hitters have more to do with it than Jacoby does sitting from the bench.

Newman4
06-07-2009, 06:17 PM
I agree with Jay, Brook Jacoby is horrible. I judge a hitting coach by what he does with talent and intervening when hitters are in slumps to correct holes in their swings. Jay Bruce should be doing a lot more than he is. He was a better hitter when he came up last year than he is now. Brandon Phillips last year couldn't hit the breaking ball from RHP all year. Adam Dunn...he seems to be doing quite well away from Jacoby.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 06:24 PM
Adam Dunn...he seems to be doing quite well away from Jacoby.

I agree. I've been very impressed with the way big Adam has led the Nats to their 15-40 record. I was very impressed with the way he led Arizona to the post season too. I knew he would become a big star as soon as he got away from Jacoby.

Newman4
06-07-2009, 06:29 PM
I agree. I've been very impressed with the way big Adam has led the Nats to their 15-40 record. I knew he would become a big star as soon as he got away from Jacoby.

Yeah, it's all Adam's fault that the Nats are horrible. :rolleyes:

davereds24
06-07-2009, 06:37 PM
he's got a roster full of AAA hitters, not much he can do.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 06:37 PM
Yeah, it's all Adam's fault that the Nats are horrible. :rolleyes:


Hey don't get me wrong. Its not Adam's fault. Its Brooke Jacokby's fault. :)

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Hey don't get me wrong. Its not Adam's fault. Its Brooke Jacokby's fault. :)

Okay, but you said Adam is leading the Nats to a 15-40 record. The Nats are horrible and it really has nothing to do with Dunn. He's having a fine year even with a recent slump. It's got nothing to do with Dunn.

All I heard when Dunn played here was about his work with Jacoby, and he didn't progress. Then Bruce, and Bruce isn't as good of a hitter last year as when he's came up. Brandon Phillips, don't get me started on him. We've to a degree ruined him as a hitter. Is he still really solid, yes he is. But he should even be better then he is and his best year was several years ago before he took up the Jacoby philosophy.

Jacoby just takes guys and wrecks their approach. I really think that.

Redeye fly
06-07-2009, 07:29 PM
I don't particularly know if Brook Jacoby is a good hitting coach, a bad hitting coach, or an average hitting coach. I'd wager a guess that none of us non major league hitters do. I'm sure he bears some responsibility. I'm also sure that every one of the hitters the Reds are throwing out there bear a larger responsibility.

Look who we had getting key at bats late in the game today... guys like Paul Janish, Adam Rosales,Alex Gonzalez, Willy Taveras... none of whom have shown themselves to be remotely competent at the plate for any great extended period of time. Have guys like Votto and Encarnacion, who at least when he's going good is a threat, out for an extended period and have Bruce slumping and it's just a mess. Players who shouldn't be starting anywhere are. Players who are nothing more than platoon types play more than they should. Players who should perhaps be at Louisville are here instead. Hey, at least McDonald is finally down there.

You mention Mattingly, and sure that's a fair point. But there's been hitting coaches with fine reputations who didn't have anywhere near the playing career of Brook Jacoby. Walt Hriniak for one, when you heard about him all the time during the 90's with the White Sox.

Take a look at the hitting coaches for the American League teams and with a few exceptions it's a case of "Who the heck is that? Did he even play in the majors?"

Dale Sveum is the Brewers hitting coach... he of the lifetime .236 average and .298 OBP

It was mentioned that Adam Dunn was doing well in Washington. I don't know if Rick Eckstein is a good hitting coach or a bad one. I do know he did not even play in the major leagues, so again if we want to make that comparison, Jacoby has him beat by a substantial amount.

From reports either here or on the Old Red Guard, Adam Dunn has apparently done well because Adam Dunn finally decided to get serious after experiencing playing for a team in contention late in the season last year with Arizona, and playing for Team USA earlier this year in the WBC. So, if anything it's more of Adam Dunn maturing and deciding to take things a bit more seriously than it is getting away from Jacoby or getting all kinds of helpful tutoring from David Eckstein's brother.

I'm neutral on Jacoby. I do know he doesn't have a whole lot to work with right now.

gilpdawg
06-07-2009, 07:50 PM
People, read Ball Four. That will tell you how much players listen to coaches. And this was back in 1969, when "everything was better" according to some. Those guys had no respect for their coaches back then. Nobody listened to Sal Maglie or whoever the hitting coach was on that team. Hitting and pitching coaches are a waste of space, other than certain special cases, (Dave Duncan?). All you really need is a manager and base coaches.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 08:13 PM
I should know better than to use sarcasm around here.

Sarcasm: "a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language."

Lets sum up and be literal. Somebody said Adam Dunn was doing a lot better now that he was away from Brooke Jacoby. Since I felt that blaming Jacoby for Dunns weaknesses during his 7 years with the Reds was wrong, I pointed out that the Nats, like the Diamonbacks, and like the Reds, were not doing that well with Adam in the lineup. I understand that the Nats record has nothing to do with Adam Dunn, just like I hope you understand that Dunns inability to be more than a one dimensional ball player has really nothing to do with Brooke Jacoby.

Im sure Adam is having a fine year and Im glad hes doing it for somebody else, Brooke Jacoby notwithstanding.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 08:17 PM
I just happen to think that this young roster of players could really use a really good hitting coach right now (not that all roster sets and all players need them) but this current group right now with these current pieces and variables could really use a top notch hitting coach. In the time that Mr. Jacoby has been here, he hasn't proven to be that guy. I am not blaming the players 100% on this one. I think they need better personnel. But with what we've got I think that a Don Mattingly might have the current group as a major story in all of baseball. The no-name lineup sort of deal.

BluegrassRedleg
06-07-2009, 08:20 PM
Adam's had more success with RISP, but his overall numbers are pretty similar to what they've always been. He is what he is.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 08:20 PM
People, read Ball Four. That will tell you how much players listen to coaches. And this was back in 1969, when "everything was better" according to some. Those guys had no respect for their coaches back then. Nobody listened to Sal Maglie or whoever the hitting coach was on that team. Hitting and pitching coaches are a waste of space, other than certain special cases, (Dave Duncan?). All you really need is a manager and base coaches.

True, but fans get frustrated and they have to blame somebody. Usually the hitting or the pitching coach is a great candidate. Remember what a bum Dick Pole was last year? Isn't it amazing how much hes improved since then?

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 08:25 PM
Adam's had more success with RISP, but his overall numbers are pretty similar to what they've always been. He is what he is.

He's driving in a lot more runners and his average looks to be .260s because he's REALLY been struggling. It took a monster slump to get him to that point. For the first two months of the season he was basically a .285 hitter at least as of May 27th. So now if he does get hot again he can be around .300

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=dunnad01&t=b&year=2009

I wouldn't be surprised if you dug up this thread in October and Adam Dunn hit .280-.290 this year. The latter number might be a stretch but I think he'll set a career high for AVG this season.

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 08:26 PM
True, but fans get frustrated and they have to blame somebody. Usually the hitting or the pitching coach is a great candidate. Remember what a bum Dick Pole was last year? Isn't it amazing how much hes improved since then?

Well I mean we're not gonna rip Pole now. But why isn't Jacoby a bum? Why do any teams ever fire the hitting coach or the pitching coach?

Jones1
06-07-2009, 08:27 PM
I'm tired of seeing this team with a runner on third and less then 2 outs and we get nothing out of it. I don't think Brook Jacoby is a good hitting coach. In fact, I think whatever he is teaching in approach is making our hitters worse.

Who is Brook Jacoby anyways? He was a lifetime .270 hitter who reached .300 only once and only above .280 twice not counting the season he hit .300 on the button.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jacobbr01.shtml

I think of this because I watched a feature this morning on Don Mattingly and how he has transcended the Dodgers hitting. Now that is a hitting coach. That is a guy who can make you better. But Brook Jacoby? I'm convinced he is the #1 problem. There's guys who are a lot more qualified to teach our hitters then this guy.

I brought this same point up last season and people told me I was stupid. There is a reason why the dodgers young guys are hitting. The hitting coach Id like to talk about much like Mattingly is Hal mcRae A career 290 hitter who hit over 300 many times in his career. Hal has single handly made Molina, Ludwick and Ankiel among may others very good hitters! Yes that McRae Tony Larussa's hitting coach! Jacoby is awful and should of been gone a long time ago, heck bring back Chambliss he was light years ahead of Jacoby and he wasnt that great so what does that tell you about Jacoby! Pathetic MLB hitter, pathetic MLB coach!

Here's McRae's Stats
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcraeha01.shtml?redir

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 08:39 PM
Why do any teams ever fire the hitting coach or the pitching coach?

I repeat: Fans get frustrated and somebody has to be blamed. Steinbrenner did it all the time and real fans laughed when he did it because they knew it was meaningless.

It doesn't mean anything and it won't change anything exccept placate a few fans who don't know any better.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 08:46 PM
Hal has single handly made Molina, Ludwick and Ankiel among may others very good hitters! Yes that McRae Tony Larussa's hitting coach!

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Nothing against Hal but "single handly"? I think PEDs hight have helped Ankiel a little. Anyhow, the last time I looked these three weren't exactly setting the world on fire.

gilpdawg
06-07-2009, 09:05 PM
Well I mean we're not gonna rip Pole now. But why isn't Jacoby a bum? Why do any teams ever fire the hitting coach or the pitching coach?
Because our hitting doesn't suck because of the hitting coach. Our hitting sucks because the players aren't good.

gilpdawg
06-07-2009, 09:06 PM
I brought this same point up last season and people told me I was stupid.
If the shoe fits. :D

Ghosts of 1990
06-07-2009, 09:20 PM
I brought this same point up last season and people told me I was stupid. There is a reason why the dodgers young guys are hitting. The hitting coach Id like to talk about much like Mattingly is Hal mcRae A career 290 hitter who hit over 300 many times in his career. Hal has single handly made Molina, Ludwick and Ankiel among may others very good hitters! Yes that McRae Tony Larussa's hitting coach! Jacoby is awful and should of been gone a long time ago, heck bring back Chambliss he was light years ahead of Jacoby and he wasnt that great so what does that tell you about Jacoby! Pathetic MLB hitter, pathetic MLB coach!

Here's McRae's Stats
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mcraeha01.shtml?redir

I wish you posted more often Jones1.

Hal Mcrae is another great example. He had a really memorable career. Noteworthy at the plate. Jacoby had 1 nice year. I don't know.

flash
06-07-2009, 10:15 PM
I'm sure Donnie Baseball is a wonderful hitting coach. Yet in the years he was the Yankees hitting coach they never made it to the series despite having a hugh payroll advantage. In 2003 the yankees made it to game 7 of the series with the incomparable Rick Down as their hitting coach. Down never played a game in the majors.

I am sure there are a lot of other great hitting coaches who were not great hitters. Was Leo Mazzoni a great pitcher? Was Jim Turner? Johnny Sain? What was the name of the great hitting coach from KC who was only a mediocre hitter? Not necesssarily a strict relationship between doing and teaching.

Johnny Sain was a very good pitcher. He won 20 games four times and was MVP runner-up in 1948. Where do you think the saying Spahn and Sain, and two days of rain came from.?

I believe that Smokey Garrett may be a better batting coach then Jacoby. The players who blossomed under him are really Hopper, Dickerson, Rosales, Keppinger, Hnnigan, and now Stubbs. Nearly every player who spends time with him comes to the majors hitting. It can't be the water, it comes from the same river.

I also think LaRussa's way is the way to go. He basically takes guys who have not succeeded and tells them. Do it our way or we'll release you.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 10:56 PM
Johnny Sain was a very good pitcher. He won 20 games four times and was MVP runner-up in 1948. Where do you think the saying Spahn and Sain, and two days of rain came from.?

I believe that Smokey Garrett may be a better batting coach then Jacoby. The players who blossomed under him are really Hopper, Dickerson, Rosales, Keppinger, Hnnigan, and now Stubbs. Nearly every player who spends time with him comes to the majors hitting. It can't be the water, it comes from the same river.

I also think LaRussa's way is the way to go. He basically takes guys who have not succeeded and tells them. Do it our way or we'll release you.

I threw Sain in without thinking. My apologies to Johnny. I just wanted to see if you were paying attention.

But my point is, you don't have to be a great player to be a great teacher. Now that I thought about it, heres the best example: Charlie Lau.

"After his playing career ended, Lau taught his hitting technique to the Orioles, Oakland Athletics, Kansas City Royals, New York Yankees and Chicago White Sox as a hitting instructor. He wrote the book How to Hit .300, which supplanted Ted Williams's The Science of Hitting as the "Bible of Batting." Lau emphasized releasing the top hand after making contact with the pitch and following through with only the lower hand on the bat. This allows maximum extension of the arms and lets the bat maintain a flatter plane through the hitting zone. Lau served as batting coach for the Royals from 1971 to 1978 and taught his spray-hitting style to Hal McRae, Amos Otis, Willie Wilson and George Brett. Other hitters to use Lau's method include Carlton Fisk, Frank Thomas and Mark McGwire."
Wikipedia

In eleven major league seasons, Lau hit .255, with 16 HR and 140 RBIs. He had a .383 OBP.

Finally, Norris Hopper notwithstanding, i don't think Smokey Garrett is the answer.

GOYA
06-07-2009, 11:15 PM
Quick, who was the Reds batting coach in 1976? Don't look it up.

Mutaman
06-07-2009, 11:31 PM
Quick, who was the Reds batting coach in 1976? Don't look it up.

Great question. Who? He had a pretty easy job.

BluegrassRedleg
06-07-2009, 11:52 PM
He probably just went around flexing his "guns." :)

berryluther
06-08-2009, 12:06 AM
For the most part it isnt Jacoby's fault. He cant help it if the FO keeps trying to pass off Triple A players as everyday Major Leaguers.

Mutaman
06-08-2009, 12:12 AM
Got it! Hint: he's in the National Polish American HOF.

Griffey012
06-08-2009, 12:40 AM
Before we blame Brook Jacoby of all people for a loss, lets first consider the players who had plate appearances today
Hairston
Dickerson
Phillips
Nix
Hernandez
Gomes
AGon
Hanigan
Arroyo
Owings
Taveras
Bruce
Janish
Rosales
Maloney

The guys in bold are ones we should be able to expect some production from given any situation. Bruce and Nix can't hit lefties to save their lives. Hairston pulls everything as bad as EDE does. The guys in bold are the only solid all around hitters in our lineup so far this season. And Hanigan and Hernandez to not scare anyone. Phillips was our only guy with legitimate longball power for most of the AB's because Nix was facing a lefty a few times and Bruce well lets not go there thats another person to blame.

Basically Jacoby can teach these guys the world and most of them are not good hitters at all and never have been or will be. It isnt Jacoby's fault Taveras ends up at plate with runners on but Jay Bruce smokes a double and gets taken back out the game. Jacoby is the last person to blame for this, EVERYONE KNOWS with a runner on 3rd and 1 out to get the run in somehow, the hitting coach cannot make Rosales take a bleeping strike, or Hairston to not pull off everything ( I am pretty sure he has tried to get that across to him)

Redeye fly
06-08-2009, 01:17 AM
Before we blame Brook Jacoby of all people for a loss, lets first consider the players who had plate appearances today
Hairston
Dickerson
Phillips
Nix
Hernandez
Gomes
AGon
Hanigan
Arroyo
Owings
Taveras
Bruce
Janish
Rosales
Maloney

The guys in bold are ones we should be able to expect some production from given any situation. Bruce and Nix can't hit lefties to save their lives. Hairston pulls everything as bad as EDE does. The guys in bold are the only solid all around hitters in our lineup so far this season. And Hanigan and Hernandez to not scare anyone. Phillips was our only guy with legitimate longball power for most of the AB's because Nix was facing a lefty a few times and Bruce well lets not go there thats another person to blame.

Basically Jacoby can teach these guys the world and most of them are not good hitters at all and never have been or will be. It isnt Jacoby's fault Taveras ends up at plate with runners on but Jay Bruce smokes a double and gets taken back out the game. Jacoby is the last person to blame for this, EVERYONE KNOWS with a runner on 3rd and 1 out to get the run in somehow, the hitting coach cannot make Rosales take a bleeping strike, or Hairston to not pull off everything ( I am pretty sure he has tried to get that across to him)

Good post

I respect everyone's opinion, but it seems some people are only looking at one side of things. Of course, I guess a lot of us could be accused of that.

The bottom line, is I just think saying Jacoby was only a so so major league hitter,especially compared to guys like Don Mattingly and Hal McRae, and that makes him a poor batting coach is a flawed argument.

First of all, it's interesting that Molina was mentioned. I have a lot of respect for Hal McRae, but according to something George Grande said, it seems like Yadier Molina may get as much advice from Albert Pujols as he does from Hal McRae.

Another thing, you can know the ins and outs of everything hitting, but folks, talent comes into play too. If you don't have the talent needed to handle a certain pitch, you can know it's coming and know what to do with it and still not matter much.

Similiarly it's not what you did as a player or even how much you know, it's how well you communicate what you know. Now maybe Jacoby fails in that aspect, but honestly I doubt any of us really know.

I do know that, just to play devil's advocate on the Don Mattingly theory, if he was [B]that[B] sensational, then it seems his son should have been more successful in the minors than what he has been... with the benefit of having both Mattingly's bloodlines and wisdom... same with Tony Gwynn's son.

In short, I highly doubt Jacoby deserves as much blame as some think.

travisgrimes
06-08-2009, 01:31 AM
The players we have now in the batter's box are flat out not good enough. I'm not one to sugar coat anything so i wont. Everyone in this lineup stinks right now with MAYBE the exception being phillips, hernandez and hanigan. And between those 3 guys we are relying on I believe they have 15 home runs between them. That wont get it done so rather Walt Jocketty brings some pop up from the minors i.e. Francisco, Alonso, Frazier or he trades for not one but two bats (one RH and one LH). And what happened to an exciting young team who plays their hearts out. Votto is out, Bruce is struggling and doesn't seem at times to want to play, BP is off and on, Dickerson plays hard but terrible ABs, and the young pitchers other than Cueto are non-existant. Jocketty needs to add a sparkplug or two or else this team will be in 5th place by the end of the month.

Ghosts of 1990
06-08-2009, 03:08 AM
Hanigan to me projects as a younger Jason Kendall at his best..... I don't know thats just me.

Newman4
06-08-2009, 07:52 AM
Ted Klu....Reds hitting coach in 76. How about Pete Rose for hitting coach?

Shawn_RedsFan
06-23-2009, 11:40 PM
Im probably sounding like an idiot right now but its whatever. Ok, i was watching the indians while they were on rain delay this weekend and they were showing highlights from the Indians fantasy camp in Arizona during spring training..why was Brook Jacoby on there?? A fantasy camp coach decked out in Indians gear did he used to be with the Indians or something??

Ghosts of 1990
06-24-2009, 01:36 AM
Im probably sounding like an idiot right now but its whatever. Ok, i was watching the indians while they were on rain delay this weekend and they were showing highlights from the Indians fantasy camp in Arizona during spring training..why was Brook Jacoby on there?? A fantasy camp coach decked out in Indians gear did he used to be with the Indians or something??

Click the link I posted in the first post of this thread. He was an Indian for his career.

Shawn_RedsFan
06-24-2009, 01:58 AM
Click the link I posted in the first post of this thread. He was an Indian for his career.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me because I was wondering guess I should have just done some research ;)

Ghosts of 1990
06-24-2009, 08:50 PM
I still think Brook Jacoby needs to be questioned. Its not a matter of instruction or whether or not he's giving it. What I'm saying is maybe his instruction is bad. I'm tired of struggling for answers and someone needs to have the axe fall on them. You can only blame the players for so long.

Ghosts of 1990
08-03-2009, 05:45 PM
And I'll go back to this.

If Jacoby isn't fired at season's end, then I'm really gonna question a lot of things about the organization. The guy has never improved a hitter. I've seen enough to evaluate Jacoby and up to this point it's time to find another man for the job. See if we can pry Don Baylor from Colorado.

Ghosts of 1990
09-30-2009, 07:51 AM
http://cnati.com/cincinnati-reds/little-change-big-results-00388/


During the two months he spent on the disabled list with a broken wrist, Jay Bruce watched a lot of baseball.

Bruce watched Reds games in addition to games from all across the majors and even game film of himself and his at-bats. With a broken wrist, he couldn't swing, but he could think. He thought about baseball, he thought about his approach at the plate and he thought about everything he'd done in the first half of the season. And there was a lot to think about, and not much of it positive, hitting .204 with an on-base percentage of .291 before breaking his wrist. He had 19 home runs before he went on the DL in early July, but that didn't overshadow the other stuff.

"What I've done this year is not the type of player I think I am at all," Bruce said. "I've told plenty of people, I don't care about the home runs - I want to be a hitter, I don't want to be a slugger."

So Bruce studied other hitters and noticed something he did that not too many other players did. He was "double tapping" - moving his front foot back at the beginning of his swing, right before he moved forward. Instead, he changed his swing to just picking his front foot up and back down again.

"Not many people did what I had going on in my swing. I started thinking about it a little bit," Bruce said. "I saw Adrian Gonzalez took out his double tap. I thought maybe there's something to it. Then I forgot about it and my timing was so off, I was like, 'you know what, the best time is to start is right now.' I'm glad I was committed to it and changed."

What the change has done has simplified his swing and allowed him more time to see pitches.

"There had been some talk about it in spring training, because there was so much going on in my swing," Bruce said. "But I think it's all about simplifying it for me. I was a little reluctant to change because I'd been so successful. I think changing and learning and not being afraid to change is something that helps you as a player."

It's not an overnight change, Bruce is still struggling with the change and being consistent with it, but the results have been impressive so far. Since coming off the disabled list, he's hitting .375, including a 2-for-4 night in Tuesday's 7-2 victory over the Cardinals, hitting two home runs and collecting a career-high five RBIs.

More impressive to Reds manager Dusty Baker than Bruce's home-run stroke was some of the pitches he let go.

"He's more calm, he's not chasing bad pitches," Baker said. "Before he left, he was chasing them all over the strike zone."

With two men on in the second inning, Cardinals starter Joel Pineiro tried to get Bruce to swing at two fastballs off the plate. Bruce didn't chase. He then fouled off a fastball over the corner of the plate and then took a fastball just below his knees to make it a 3-1 count. He pounded on a fastball over the heart of the plate and drove it 392 feet into the Cardinals' bullpen in right.

With a man on in the sixth, Pineiro tried to get Bruce to chase a curveball of the plate, before Bruce watched two strikes. With a 1-2 count, Bruce watched another pitch, this one a curveball just low before pouncing on a slider he crushed 419 feet to center.

"He's taking pitches now that he swung at. Him and Brook Jacoby made some adjustments in his approach," Baker said. "You see him staying off bad pitches. The key to hitting is - other than a couple of guys in this league - if you can hit quality, high-percentage pitches, you can hit. Like tonight, that 3-1 pitch, he stayed off a couple of tough pitches before he got to that point. He's not out of the woods yet, but he's come a long way."




Interesting that Jay's comments are all "I" "I" "I" and Dusty is the one that mentions/credits Brook Jacoby. Somehow I doubt CTR got those Jay quotes wrong.

Reading between the lines here, Jay struggled when he was healthy, perhaps because he was double tapping, and the problem went unnoticed by the person/people who get paid to notice it, besides Jay. I wonder how many other franchises, especially those with middling payrolls, expect their 22 year old players to correct their own mistakes?

Seriously hard for me to read this and not yearn for the Reds to fire at least one of the coaches, if not most of them.

Kingspoint
09-30-2009, 05:30 PM
I saw the headline of this thread. I'm not responding to anything else in the posts.

Brook Jacoby did not put players batting 1-2 w/ sub-.300 OBP's in the lineup.

Dusty, and Dusty only, is the reason why this Offense suffered. Dusty did it again last night. The two players in the lineup with the worst OBP's were batting 1-2, and both of them were below .300.

Dusty sucks, period!

Mutaman
09-30-2009, 10:46 PM
http://cnati.com/cincinnati-reds/little-change-big-results-00388/

Interesting that Jay's comments are all "I" "I" "I" and Dusty is the one that mentions/credits Brook Jacoby. Somehow I doubt CTR got those Jay quotes wrong.

.

Watching Tuesdays game, Bruce had lengthy (and animated) conversations with Jacoby in the dugout after both of his home runs. I noted at the time that there appeared to be good chemesty between them.