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Redlegs
06-07-2009, 07:10 PM
If I'm the Reds, Mike Lincoln has a one way ticket to the Derby City.

CTA513
06-07-2009, 07:13 PM
Lincoln can go home while Burton goes to AAA.

Tony Cloninger
06-07-2009, 07:14 PM
Only hard hit ball was Soriano's.....everything else was weakly hit. ;)

Seriously...I think they will use that as an excuse not to cut him.

mth123
06-07-2009, 07:17 PM
He's not going anywhere. Burton may go down for some work to get straightened out, but Lincoln stays on his 2 year deal.

Redlegs
06-07-2009, 07:17 PM
Only hard hit ball was Soriano's.....everything else was weakly hit. ;)

Seriously...I think they will use that as an excuse not to cut him.

He came in with an 8.10 ERA with the opponenets hitting .325 against him. That's more than just pitching in tough luck.

OnBaseMachine
06-07-2009, 07:20 PM
Lincoln stinks, but today's loss wasn't his fault. It was the offense all the way. Lincoln needs to be released though.

nate
06-07-2009, 07:27 PM
Lincoln stinks, but today's loss wasn't his fault. It was the offense all the way. Lincoln needs to be released though.

He played a role in it though.

durl
06-07-2009, 07:39 PM
He played a role in it though.

I just believe it shouldn't have gotten to Lincoln's shoulders. When you go 0-13(?) with RISP you shouldn't expect to win a game.

Ltlabner
06-07-2009, 07:42 PM
Am I on the Sun Deck?

nate
06-07-2009, 07:44 PM
I just believe it shouldn't have gotten to Lincoln's shoulders. When you go 0-13(?) with RISP you shouldn't expect to win a game.

As I said, he played a role in the loss.

OnBaseMachine
06-07-2009, 07:45 PM
I just believe it shouldn't have gotten to Lincoln's shoulders. When you go 0-13(?) with RISP you shouldn't expect to win a game.

I agree. I also agree that Mike Lincon needs to be released. But the game shouldn't have gotten to the point where Lincoln was needed.

7th inning: second and third, one out = one run

8th inning: bases loaded, one out = no runs

10th inning: runner on third, one out = no runs

12th inning: bases loaded, one out = no runs

13th inning: runner on second, one out = no runs

That's amazing. If they score just one run they win that game.

TheNext44
06-07-2009, 07:47 PM
Right now, Lincoln is the 13th pitcher on a 13 man staff, that will go down to 12 soon. When that happens, and he still is getting hit hard, he probably is the odd man out.

To be honest, with so many clubs needing middle relief, I think the Reds could easily trade him. If the Reds were to place him on waivers, I think more than one team would put a bid on him. I doubt they could get anything other than salary relief, but that's better than sending him to AAA or releasing him.

joshnky
06-07-2009, 07:48 PM
Am I on the Sun Deck?

I had the exact same thought.

You got to love the knee jerk "I hate _____" or "we should cut _____" threads that occur within seconds of a players mistake.

LvJ
06-07-2009, 07:57 PM
In 18 games, Lincoln has given up zero runs in only 8 of those.

3 of those games was for more than 1 inning.

He has given up more than 1 run in a game 5 times.

He has only appeared in two games in which he had not allowed a base runner.

21 IP, 29 Hits, 17 Walks, 4 Hit Batters and 21 Earned Runs.

That is 50 base runners in 21 Innings.

Why he isn't playing in a softball league is beyond me.

Kc61
06-07-2009, 08:05 PM
Lincoln has a 9.00 ERA and that was the second time I recall him allowing a big homer on his first pitch. He may get it back if he pitches regularly, but that will only happen at AAA or for another team.

But OBP is right. Lincoln is pretty irrelevant right now, he is the 13th man on a 13 man staff who only got into the game deep into extra innings, after Fisher and Burton.

What matters is the Reds' repeated inability to score a run with a man on second, or on third, and less than two out. If time after time your hitters can't hit a fly ball to score a winning run, then you need different players.

westofyou
06-07-2009, 08:09 PM
Am I on the Sun Deck?

I'm having a Capricorn One experience myself.

flyer85
06-07-2009, 08:11 PM
his inverted BB/K ratio tells a sad story and there is no way around it. No pitcher can be successful with those kind of numbers.

BCubb2003
06-07-2009, 08:16 PM
I'm having a Capricorn One experience myself.

Worst movie ending ever.

Anyway, take a likely .500 team, take away the best pitcher and best hitter, the next best hitter in a fierce slump, and take away probably the fourth best hitter, and what kind of team do you have?

Tom Servo
06-07-2009, 08:40 PM
Send him outright to AAA. We owe him the money, might as well make him pitch for it and bring him back up later in the season if we're going nowhere.

HumnHilghtFreel
06-07-2009, 08:45 PM
I hardly see how this thread is a knee-jerk reaction.

Lincoln has been a train wreck all season long. It's about time to see some course of action on him, IMO

Falls City Beer
06-07-2009, 09:03 PM
I'm having a Capricorn One experience myself.

Isn't that the one with OJ?

camisadelgolf
06-07-2009, 09:08 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Mike Lincoln has no options left. The only way he goes to AAA is if the Reds pay the rest of his multi-million dollar contract.

RedsManRick
06-07-2009, 09:14 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Mike Lincoln has no options left. The only way he goes to AAA is if the Reds pay the rest of his multi-million dollar contract.

The money is a sunk cost. At this point, put the best arms in the pen. You gain nothing by letting him keep getting lit up. Either he'll accept the demotion or somebody will pick him up -- the way he's pitching right now, the most value we could get from him is paying him to pitch for somebody who we'll play down the road.

camisadelgolf
06-07-2009, 09:32 PM
The money is a sunk cost. At this point, put the best arms in the pen. You gain nothing by letting him keep getting lit up. Either he'll accept the demotion or somebody will pick him up -- the way he's pitching right now, the most value we could get from him is paying him to pitch for somebody who we'll play down the road.
I agree completely. I'm just sick of hearing, "Send him to Louisville!" when it isn't even an option right now--no pun intended.

KoryMac5
06-07-2009, 09:52 PM
Isn't that the one with OJ?

O.J. Simpson played Cmdr. John Walker in that movie. All in all pretty good cast Elliott Gould, Hal Holbrook, Telly Savalas, and Sam Waterston.

4256 Hits
06-07-2009, 10:23 PM
I hardly see how this thread is a knee-jerk reaction.

Lincoln has been a train wreck all season long. It's about time to see some course of action on him, IMO

He was real bad the 2nd half of last year. Why they gave him a multi-million let alone a 2 year contract was perplexing. :confused:

flyer85
06-07-2009, 10:30 PM
He was real bad the 2nd half of last year. Why they gave him a multi-million let alone a 2 year contract was perplexing. :confused:
Walt screwed up, it happens.

What is inexcusable is compounding the mistake by keeping him around. His peripherals are beyond abysmal. Relievers ERA is more sensitive to the randomness of the game but this is not the case with Lincoln in 2009.

LoganBuck
06-07-2009, 11:16 PM
I agree completely. I'm just sick of hearing, "Send him to Louisville!" when it isn't even an option right now--no pun intended.

I am fairly certain sending him to Louisville, is an option, but he would have to be DFAed, Clear Waivers, be outrighted to Louisville, and agree to the assignment, which he would have every right to reject. The Reds would still have to pay his salary, I highly doubt that any team out there will snag him if he is put on waivers, unless some scout has picked up on whatever flaw he may have. Are the Reds still paying Mike Stanton?

camisadelgolf
06-07-2009, 11:22 PM
I am fairly certain sending him to Louisville, is an option, but he would have to be DFAed, Clear Waivers, be outrighted to Louisville, and agree to the assignment, which he would have every right to reject. The Reds would still have to pay his salary, I highly doubt that any team out there will snag him if he is put on waivers, unless some scout has picked up on whatever flaw he may have. Are the Reds still paying Mike Stanton?
To further on that, because Lincoln has 3+ years of service time, he can refuse the assignment, and because he has 5+ years of service time, he gets paid the same either way. There's no way the Reds can get out of paying him (unless trading him somehow becomes possible), and there's no way Lincoln can go to Louisville unless he gives the Reds permission to send him there. If he were DFAed, I think he'd elect to become a free agent and go to a team that has more need for him, which is probably 80+% of Major League teams right now.

Tom Servo
06-07-2009, 11:28 PM
To further on that, because Lincoln has 3+ years of service time, he can refuse the assignment, and because he has 5+ years of service time, he gets paid the same either way. There's no way the Reds can get out of paying him (unless trading him somehow becomes possible), and there's no way Lincoln can go to Louisville unless he gives the Reds permission to send him there. If he were DFAed, I think he'd elect to become a free agent and go to a team that has more need for him, which is probably 80+% of Major League teams right now.
80% is a pretty big exaggeration. There's much better, younger pitchers DFA'ed on an almost regular basis.

redsfaninbsg
06-07-2009, 11:30 PM
Forget the stats, watch Mike Lincoln pitch. Nobody with a half brain believes he should be on the big league roster right now. At his best he's an average major league pitcher, at his worst, well you see it.

camisadelgolf
06-08-2009, 12:04 AM
80% is a pretty big exaggeration. There's much better, younger pitchers DFA'ed on an almost regular basis.
What I mean is that 80+% of Major League teams have more need for a reliever than the Reds--the bullpen is one of their strong suits. I'd estimate that 98+% of DFAed relievers will pitch better than Lincoln has so far in 2009.

Jpup
06-08-2009, 10:04 AM
I think he is hurt. He's a better pitcher than he has shown.

nate
06-08-2009, 10:05 AM
I'm having a Capricorn One experience myself.

Awesome reference. I saw it in the theater as a kid; I thought it was freaking awful even then.

Even if it did have Nordberg.

traderumor
06-08-2009, 10:15 AM
I bought into Lincoln being overworked leading to the bad last few months last year. I've also tried the "volatility of relievers" to rationalize keeping him. For now, I'll just stick to "here comes Stinkin' Lincoln, Sammy" when I let my son know who's pitching. It just kind of rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? :p:

BTW, that was the nickname of my Jr. High (now known as Middle School), which had us kids from the wrong side of the tracks.