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Bumstead
06-10-2009, 12:36 PM
No thread on our 1st round supplemental pick?? Somebody tell me something good about this guy. If Scheppers isn't in the operating room in the next 2 years how bad is this pick? It would have been interesting to pair Everett Williams with Billy Hamilton and see which of these tremendous athletes becomes a MLB player. Was really hoping Mike Trout dropped...Would have liked to see some risk at this pick. Oh well. What did y'all think of this one?

Bum

dougdirt
06-10-2009, 12:55 PM
I don't mind it. I probably wouldn't have gone there, but I don't mind it. Good sinker in the 90-95 range, above average slider, average change and average curve. Needs some work on the command. Plenty of upside there, just have to get the kid throwing more strikes. Maybe there is a flaw that the Reds see that will fix it? Thats something some of us fans seem to forget about when looking at college numbers.... their coaches aren't as good as ours.

RedlegJake
06-10-2009, 12:56 PM
He can dial it up to 95 but sits at 91 or so, has an arsenal of secondary pitches, curve, slider, changeup that grade average or just above but are usable. He should be able to improve one or two of those - especially if Soto helps him with his changeup. He has command issues but I think they're fixable - because its not that he has no command but game to game inconsistency with it. One game he hits spots and the next he struggles. From everything I've read the biggest bugaboo seems to be conditioning and arm strength later in the game - he improved quite a but there but those words "will he stay in condition to be starter". Not sure if that means a weight problem or suspect arm troubles or just strength of arm as he accumulates pitches. He has had arm problems (elbow) in the past - maybe that was what held him back strengthwise in later innings. If he is and stays healthy I think he'll move pretty quickly albeit slower than Leake who has more polish. He pitched for USC so he's had great coaching and played in a premier conference against good competition.

Did I like the pick? I thought it was a reach where they got him so in that regard I'm not thrilled but I don't dislike him as a prospect.

bellhead
06-10-2009, 01:42 PM
Where do you see him going first? Sarasota, Dayton or Billings.

LoganBuck
06-10-2009, 02:32 PM
Where do you see him going first? Sarasota, Dayton or Billings.

Billings most likely, Dayton as an outside shot if they need someone to fill the roster.

nemesis
06-10-2009, 02:33 PM
Billings would be the most likely.

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2009, 02:46 PM
They better fix his pie-throwing tendencies or he'll be an elbow injury waiting to happen.

DTCromer
06-10-2009, 03:35 PM
They better fix his pie-throwing tendencies or he'll be an elbow injury waiting to happen.

And yet you wanted someone with a questionable past of health issues. :confused:

jojo
06-10-2009, 03:37 PM
The Reds have had trouble developing a pitcher named Homer. How will they do with one whose initials are BB?

DTCromer
06-10-2009, 03:39 PM
The Reds have had trouble developing a pitcher named Homer. How will they do with one whose initials are BB?

I just hope they don't intentionally screw him up.

AmarilloRed
06-10-2009, 03:41 PM
One concern I saw from MLB.com was his velocity. It was enough of a concern that they thought he might be moved to reliever in the future.

dougdirt
06-10-2009, 06:58 PM
One concern I saw from MLB.com was his velocity. It was enough of a concern that they thought he might be moved to reliever in the future.

Like I noted in another post on here, in past seasons he couldn't carry his velocity deeper into games. Thats where the reliever rub came in. However this year he has been able to carry his velocity deeper into games.

Mario-Rijo
06-10-2009, 07:03 PM
And yet you wanted someone with a questionable past of health issues. :confused:

Did I, who exactly? You might want to go back back and double check that fact. I know what you are implying and you have the wrong guy. Just because I didn't want Boxberger doesn't mean I was clamoring for Scheppers. Just for the record he wasn't the one I wanted there.

Blitz Dorsey
06-10-2009, 09:50 PM
Even after sleeping on it for a night and thinking about it... I still think the Reds made a big mistake by passing on Scheppers. The fact he was taken the very next pick just makes it that much worse. Scheppers has a big-time arm and the supplemental first-round would have been a great time to take a chance on him. I know there were two major concerns: signability and his injury last year. However, I think he'll sign for less than he's demanding now (he won't go two years unsigned) and the fact that he was cranking it up to 98 recently tells me his injury might not have been all that serious. Plus, he's had a full year of rest (other than a couple starts in an indy league) which will help the cause considerably.

Oh well, that being said, I hope Boxburger will be a future All-Star for the Reds and I'll be rooting for him like crazy of course.

DTCromer
06-10-2009, 10:11 PM
Did I, who exactly? You might want to go back back and double check that fact. I know what you are implying and you have the wrong guy. Just because I didn't want Boxberger doesn't mean I was clamoring for Scheppers. Just for the record he wasn't the one I wanted there.

Yeah, you're right. My apologies as it was a few other people, but I remembered your name for another reason.

What I should've said is, "Quit whining."

Is that better?


It's worse than that, there were a ton of available players better than Butters Stotch. It's a definite sign of signability, this is just the Reds being cheap. Don't look for many good picks in this draft.


I think that's the point Blitz has although I am not trying to put words in his mouth. Right now you have to question the Reds motives and if they knew he would be a tough sign it's an easy way to get out from under having to spend that money.


I'd be completely behind these guys if #1 I knew we weren't being frugal and #2 Buckley had ever drafted anyone who wasn't a #3 starter or worse and actually made it to the major leagues. Or an elite talent of any kind who wasn't the safe pick at the time. You look at what he did in Toronto and you see a collection of soft tossing #3's and 2B playing SS. Trust me I don't mind safe but he's on a completely 'nother level, he's just too safe which results in a lot of average at best LF's, MR & 2B types. He'd have never drafted Jay Bruce, fortunately somebody else did before him.


Yeah well sometimes the safe pick is also a high level talent, I call that good fortune for us.


It doesn't really matter the point being Buckley stinks at picking players. Alot of his guys are Valiaka's, Watson, Cline, Cozart, etc. guys who aren't clear busts but just aren't ever gonna be anything great. They are just good enough to continue to fill the system full of middling to just slightly above players. We have almost no legit impact players in the pipeline. Go look at some of these other teams systems and you'll get what I mean.

I don't know the frugality situation and neither does anyone else but you learn over the years to read between the lines, I do and frankly that's the way it looks to me. And it's maddening, it isn't like it's something that just happened with this draft. This draft is just icing on the cake.


On Buckley: I think 4 years is plenty of time to know we have a guy who is capable of not completely blowing a draft which at one point was refreshing, but at some point you need to make a concerted effort to put some premium talent in the pipeline. His drafts have given us little and what he has given us is par at best.


Those are all your posts in the draft thread whining about the Reds being cheap just after they signed Alonso to a pretty expensive contract. Not to forget Duran, Rodriguez, and even Matt Fairel who we gave some extra money to as a 35th round draft pick.

You know, as a former Bengals fan, I can spot cheapness from a mile away. Owner driving a 20 year-old Lumina.
Having your RB going out and buying some towels of his own since the ones the club gave the team are so bad.
Having someone in the organization fixing a light that's been out for days since no one else bothered to pay the money or take the time to change it.
Sending FA's a coach ticket to visit your team.
No padding around the concrete wall with nothing around the stadium, except for the endzones, to suggest that it's your own home field.

That's cheap. In baseball, the Reds have 40-50-60. . picks. Hell, I don't even know and as a small-market team, they need to be as frugal as possible. To complain about cheapness after some of the moves we've made in the past few years is trbl IMO. . . especially after the Uncle Carl era.

jojo
06-10-2009, 11:24 PM
95mph sinker?

Mario-Rijo
06-11-2009, 01:52 AM
Yeah, you're right. My apologies as it was a few other people, but I remembered your name for another reason.

What I should've said is, "Quit whining."

Is that better?

:lol::rolleyes:

That's funny coming from a chronic whiner about others views. If you want to argue PM me otherwise let's move on, I have.

travisgrimes
06-11-2009, 04:25 PM
yeah what could have been :

1st Round: Aaron Crow
Supp. 1st : Tanner Scheppers

Grande Donkey
06-11-2009, 04:37 PM
yeah what could have been :

1st Round: Aaron Crow
Supp. 1st : Tanner ScheppersTwo major arm surgeries before they both reach the age of 24? Because it definitely could have been that.

dougdirt
06-11-2009, 05:19 PM
yeah what could have been :

1st Round: Aaron Crow
Supp. 1st : Tanner Scheppers

Worry about what could have been in 10 years when we know how it played out. Pretending to know now is just silly.

travisgrimes
06-11-2009, 05:22 PM
i understand that but im not saying that the Reds did a terrible thing and scheppers and crow are gonna win 5 cy youngs each... im simply saying their potential is much higher than leake and boxberger

dougdirt
06-11-2009, 05:26 PM
i understand that but im not saying that the Reds did a terrible thing and scheppers and crow are gonna win 5 cy youngs each... im simply saying their potential is much higher than leake and boxberger

Well I would argue that Billy Hamilton's potential is much higher than Mike Leake's, Aaron Crow's or Tanner Scheppers too. But its still about risk/reward. Both Crow and Scheppers have some pretty serious question marks on their resumes (Scheppers a whole lot more than Crow).

Superdude
06-11-2009, 07:06 PM
Well I would argue that Billy Hamilton's potential is much higher than Mike Leake's, Aaron Crow's or Tanner Scheppers too.

Really? I'm not questioning you, but what does Hamilton really project to do down the road? I get that he's fast, but is that where all his potential lies?

Mario-Rijo
06-11-2009, 07:49 PM
Really? I'm not questioning you, but what does Hamilton really project to do down the road? I get that he's fast, but is that where all his potential lies?

I seen some Carl Crawford (and to a lesser extent Billy Hall) comps for him, assuming a lot of development. Fast as lightning, strong arm, fairly sound RH swing but still has holes in it (learning to hit LH), good outfield instincts. Negatives are a lack of power, crude approach (judging from the reports probably swing happy and overly aggressive), and not a natural SS.

Basically a very raw guy but not so much in the athletic arena (there he is fabulous) but just baseball polish overall.

DTCromer
06-11-2009, 08:39 PM
:lol::rolleyes:

That's funny coming from a chronic whiner about others views. If you want to argue PM me otherwise let's move on, I have.

So you don't even want to argue about the Reds being "cheap?"

dougdirt
06-12-2009, 12:10 AM
Really? I'm not questioning you, but what does Hamilton really project to do down the road? I get that he's fast, but is that where all his potential lies?
I am always going to give an above average every day guy a bonus over a very good starting pitcher. The key word was potential and Billy Hamilton, while really raw, is an absolutely incredible athlete. His potential, if realized, is incredibly high. He could be a shortstop or center fielder with an outstanding bat and a very good running game. Do I think he is light years from that potential as a baseball player? Absolutely. But his potential is indeed there to be an incredible player.