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OldRed1966
06-13-2009, 05:01 PM
The Reds need some offensive punch, and they need it badly. The Reds have some players that could get that offensive punch via trade IMO. The Reds pitching seems to be just getting better at all levels.


--Homer Bailey went 8 2/3 shutout innings for Louisville. He allowed six hits, struck out nine and walked two. Over his last three starts, he's gone 23 1/3 innings and allowed one run on 17 hits. He's struck out 23 and walked four. He's 6-5 with a 3.13 ERA overall.

--Travis Wood, a left-hander, went seven shutout innings for Carolina. He allowed one hit -- I think he took a no-hitter to the sixth -- walked one and struck out nine. Over his five starts, he's gone 36 innings and allowed two runs on 19 hits. He's struck out 34 and walked four. He's 6-3 with a 1.11 ERA overall.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com

Matt Maloney has pitched pretty well in his first two starts in the majors. The Reds also have some good young hitters in AA. CF Chris Heisey, 24, is hitting .364 with 11 HR and 34 RBI's, and 11 SB's. Todd Frazier, 23, is hitting .333 with 4 HR, and 34 RBI's. Taveras is really struggling. The Reds have had hardly any offensive production at 3B, SS, CF all year. What do you do if your Walt? Do you trade Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Woods or Maloney? Which one would be most valuable in the trade market? Do you bring up Heisey and Frazier and plug them into the lineup, and see what they can do? It's your call. What do you do if your Walt Jocketty?

big boy
06-13-2009, 05:07 PM
Maloney looks good to me. Homer has dominated AAA before but could be a good option.

If the Reds are out of contention in July, you could see Harang and Arroyo get moved.

Krawhitham
06-13-2009, 05:23 PM
trade homer for a bat

BluegrassRedleg
06-13-2009, 05:35 PM
Bring Homer up and give him an honest, extended look. He needs to be with the Reds or dealt away, and I personally believe there's too much talent (and not enough trade value) to deal him right now.

GIDP
06-13-2009, 05:51 PM
Start with getting rid of the dugout dice

Mutaman
06-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Trade Mike Lincoln for Albert Pujols.

bleedsred
06-13-2009, 07:00 PM
Guys to go after:
3b Reynolds-Ariz
CF Rowand- SF
LF Dye- CH WSox......I'm sure Walt could come up with a package or two to land these guys.

mroby85
06-13-2009, 07:00 PM
Bring Homer up and give him an honest, extended look. He needs to be with the Reds or dealt away, and I personally believe there's too much talent (and not enough trade value) to deal him right now.


Not saying I disagree, but giving Homer an extended look with the reds could make him untradable if he pitches like he has in the past.

bleedsred
06-13-2009, 07:08 PM
My Lineup.... ..... Bench

1. Rowand ......... Nix
2. Bruce......... Gomes
3. Phillips ......... Catcher
4. Votto ......... Janish
5. Dye ........ Hairston
6. Reynolds ........ Taveras...only because Dickerson is traded
7. Hanigan/Hernandez
8. Gonzo
9. Pitcher

Ghosts of 1990
06-13-2009, 07:51 PM
Bring Homer up and give him an honest, extended look. He needs to be with the Reds or dealt away, and I personally believe there's too much talent (and not enough trade value) to deal him right now.

I'll agree with this. If they're not going to give Homer his chance to be in this rotation, then it's time to use him as a trading chip. They're treading water with him and wasting time and value.

Captain Hook
06-13-2009, 07:57 PM
Trade Mike Lincoln for Albert Pujols.

Maybe if we packaged Lincoln and Tavares they would include Carpenter along with Pujols.

Kingspoint
06-13-2009, 08:10 PM
I can't think of anyone on here that's preached patience more this season than I have. So, if I now think it's time to do something, then it's probably past time to do something.

What prompts this is that it's clear that the timetable for Edwin Ecarnacion to come back has long passed. Votto's a huge question mark, also. So, with the total uncertainty of those two, and the REDS having the good pitching that they do have, and the ineptness Offensively of Taveras and some others, I would attempt to get a veteran 3rd Baseman (Hairston plays 3rd base worse than he plays shortstop) in exchange for a minor league player.

You have to ask yourself though, who's available?

The most likely answer is Adrian Beltre, as even though the Mariners are playing better lately and are only a few games themselves out of 1st place. I don't think they will trade Beltre at this time, though as they are starting to win and they could use the infusion of fans this month that winning brings. Getting rid of Beltre's contract would help them a lot. This is the last year of Beltre's contract. He's earning $11.5M. As a Free Agent, the Mariners aren't going to resign him to a new contract next year. The price wouldn't be cheap, though.

But to be honest, EE's outhit Beltre each of the last three seasons, while Beltre, in a contract year, is having his worst season ever. He still plays great defense though, and as a veteran, might be just the right guy to bring aboard to the team for the rest of 2009.

I wouldn't trade EE for Beltre. That's too much, but that might be what it takes. We're then left shopping for a 3rd Baseman next season, too.

There's Ryan Zimmerman, too. He's 24 years old, and his numbers had gone down three straight years in 06, 07, and 08 until this season where they've skyrocketed up to a .910 OPS. What would that cost? Homer Bailey, probably. Maybe a bit more. But, it would also block the advancement of future REDS who are around the corner and will make their REDS' debuts in 2010 and 2011. Zimmerman doesn't become a free agent until 2012, and then a Restricted Free Agent at that.

What should Walt do, though?

If I were him, I'd do nothing and keep riding this thing out. We have Sutton, Rosales, EE, and Hairston to all play 3rd Base. Dickerson can play more Center while Willy tries to figure it out. Bruce is going to have to figure it out, too.

This team is just going to have to take it's lumps, and what it learns from this year will help it that much more next season.

2009 was never supposed to be about the playoffs. It was supposed to be about learning and preparing itself for a real run at 2010. If this was June 13th, 2010 and things were the way they were then, I'd go after some sort of Offense, but it would have to be impactual, like a Zimmerman. I'd trade Bailey and Encarnacion for Zimmerman. The Nationals would go for that.

Kingspoint
06-13-2009, 08:15 PM
Swap Hanigan and Taveras' batting orders.

Put some speed at the bottom of the order in front of the pitcher, who's bunting anyway, and get a guy at the top of the order who's hitting the ball.

Kingspoint
06-13-2009, 08:26 PM
Walt should not be a buyer. He needs to be a seller, and get what he can for Arroyo over the next 30 days. Get what he can for Gomes and Nix, if anything, and get what he can for Alex Gonzalez and Hairston, too.

If he can get someone to take Taveras for nothing, I'd do that, too.

travisgrimes
06-13-2009, 09:02 PM
i think he needs to make up his mind what to do now.... i say sell.... get what u can for harang (which is a lot) and arroyo (which could be pretty good) and also see if u can package hairston, gonzalez, nix and gomes in a trade... i think the time is now that we see francisco, alonso, bailey, maloney, wood/stewart, frazier, etc. start to get some REAL playing time with the big club... i don't care that maybe francisco and alonso are struggling right now in AA, let them get experience now so they can be ready to make a run next season.

xavr1
06-13-2009, 11:46 PM
Trade Homer. Get bat(s). Its that simple.

Shawn_RedsFan
06-13-2009, 11:52 PM
Trade Homer. Get bat(s). Its that simple.

why trade someone that could be a pivotal piece of the pitching staff for years to come?

steig
06-13-2009, 11:53 PM
Walt should not be a buyer. He needs to be a seller, and get what he can for Arroyo over the next 30 days. Get what he can for Gomes and Nix, if anything, and get what he can for Alex Gonzalez and Hairston, too.

If he can get someone to take Taveras for nothing, I'd do that, too.

Good point, this team is not a playoff contender even if they go out and get a bat now. The pitching is good but inconsistent. You don't know what is going on in Votto's head, Edison's elbow, or Bruce's swing. There is a good core team right now and Walt should work on making that better for next season.

I would get Votto back and healthy so you can trade Votto in the offseason, Boston might need a first baseman. Give Homer a chance, other teams have already seen him fail, so give him a chance so you have a replacement for Harang. Work on getting Alonso and Ben Fransisco ready to take over positions sometime next season.

Shawn_RedsFan
06-13-2009, 11:54 PM
Good point, this team is not a playoff contender even if they go out and get a bat now. The pitching is good but inconsistent. You don't know what is going on in Votto's head, Edison's elbow, or Bruce's swing. There is a good core team right now and Walt should work on making that better for next season.

I would get Votto back and healthy so you can trade Votto in the offseason, Boston might need a first baseman. Give Homer a chance, other teams have already seen him fail, so give him a chance so you have a replacement for Harang. Work on getting Alonso and Ben Fransisco ready to take over positions sometime next season.

I agree with everything you say here but I disagree with "The pitching is good but inconsistent." And DO NOT TRADE VOTTO

Other than that I agree 100% with everything you stated there, couldn't have put it any better.

Also no reason to rush Alonso up here give this guy time..

13 in hall
06-14-2009, 12:43 AM
Go young now!! Play Stubbs, Heisey, and Frazier see if they are ready to contribute in any way for next year. Then shop Herang, Arroyo, Weathers, Rhodes, and Cordero he has a limited no trade. I know I'm dreaming but offer to pay Herang and Arroyo's contract for the remainder of this year to get back an even better prospect or prospects! This team is more than just one bat away from winning anything!! Watch the Phillies, Dodgers, even the Brewers bats man can they hit.

travisgrimes
06-14-2009, 01:03 AM
i say we're two RH bats and a LH bat away plus another solid starter and a good bench away from winning anything...

sivman17
06-14-2009, 01:25 AM
look at the deal we made with the rangers to get volquez. edinson had been up and down exactly like homer and we traded away one of the most promising hitters we have seen in ages. i feel like we should be able to trade away homer for a big bat

travisgrimes
06-14-2009, 02:52 AM
this team is far more than one big bat away... we need a LH bat who can hit .280 with 20 HRs a yr, a RH bat similar to Joey Votto someone with power but hits for a high average and another big time thumper who can hit 30-40 HRs or can drive in massive amounts of runs... i think Juan Francisco/Yonder Alonso could fill the LH bat void and maybe even the big thumper but i think if we trade away Harang and/or Arroyo we could find a guy like Michael Taylor to be the next big time RH bat... i dont want a half a year rental for a promising young starter like Homer Bailey... it does us no good because we aren't winning anything this season

Slyder
06-14-2009, 03:09 AM
Hamilton has his warts, don't forget about that. Thats why he brought us Edison Volquez (unproven model) and not something more proven.

Anyways if you're going to be a saler yes I agree with consensus here, get what you can for Bronson. May not be the prettiest package but you should be able to get some value (even if you have to take a Ryan Freel type contract) for a guy guarentee to pitch 200 innings a year and when he's on he is a very good pitcher. Homer's swan song? Masset? Give Lehr another shot, I mean why not 31 yrs old why keep him at AAA if youre not going to give him a chance?

David Weathers (yes I am a broken record) would also be on my short list of guys to shop around. Even if you just get a couple guys who could be a borderline MLB reliever in the future. Save some cash and get some value from him. Replace him with Josh Roenicke.

DFA Mike Lincoln he's even older than Lehr and serves no purpose with his current production. Eat the contract and replace with Pedro Viola, Homer?, Lehr?, a guy from AA who's closest to "ready". Couldnt be any worse.

Other pitchers on the block:
Aaron Harang (granted if 2010 is the "window year" it better be a pretty sweet package).
Arthur Rhodes (may get something from a team like the Yanks who desperately need pen help)

With the room on the 40 man roster created by Arroyo, Weathers, and Lincoln I'd add Stubbs, Sutton, Roenicke. Push Tavares with Stubbs and Dickerson. You're not going to get ANYONE to take Tavares for anything so might as well keep him around and hope maybe the April Tavares reappears or at worst you have a decent PR option late in games.

If you want to bring up Heisey, Manuel, etc I would knock Wilkin Castillo off the 40 man. Its great he can play a lot of places... but he doesnt hit well enough to really play anywhere.

I'd keep Nix and Gomes around if theyre willing to be 4th of, youre not gonna get anything of significant value for either of them most likely so try and find a bench bat to hold onto for the short term. Both provide some pop and could be nice complementary bats.

I will not lie I would listen to offers on Yonder, Votto, Philliips, Hernandez, and even Bruce. Keyword: LISTEN. I dont like to propose specific player trades because I know very little about any farm system other than what I hear here.

xavr1
06-14-2009, 09:39 AM
Well this is what Walt told Fay he is planning to do:

Would you be more apt to make a move if the team wasn’t holding on in the standings? “That’s a good question,” Jocketty said, “because outside the organization, there’s no much going on. We really haven’t seen anyone we want to bring up right now. We have some guys we may want to look at later. Right now, we’re not going to do that.”

Sounds like the ol tried and true "sit tight" approach.

corwinator3407
06-14-2009, 10:04 AM
Since the Homer talk is in here, I figured up his stats since his appearance vs. the Indians and getting sent back down yesterday:
4 games
3-0 (should be 4-0 if he could get a run to save his life on Friday's 8.2 inning masterpiece)
29.1 IP
28 H
3 ER
7 BB
24 K
0.92 ERA
1.20 WHIP

steig
06-14-2009, 01:22 PM
Hamilton has his warts, don't forget about that.

I will not lie I would listen to offers on Yonder, Votto, Philliips, Hernandez, and even Bruce. Keyword: LISTEN. I dont like to propose specific player trades because I know very little about any farm system other than what I hear here.

I would not consider listening on Phillips, Hernandez, Yonder, and Bruce. It has taken a long time to get core talent this good in Cinci. I would only listen on Votto because I don't want a similar situation to happen with Votto down the stretch if we are contender or in the playoffs. I think the base of a solid team exists, but we need a better bench, and the team needs to consider how to move past Arroyo and Harang. I think Homer could give this team just as much a chance to win as Arroyo has been this season, and Harang is starting to show signs of age. If Walt is smart this season with his moves the Reds could be serious contenders next year or in 2011.

Fon Duc Tow
06-14-2009, 01:28 PM
Quitters in Mid-June.

Unreal.

Ghosts of 1990
06-14-2009, 07:42 PM
Quitters in Mid-June.

Unreal.

That'll tend to happen when you get 14 hits in a 3 game series against the Royals.

LouisvilleCARDS
06-14-2009, 08:37 PM
It might be time to be part buyers, part sellers. Do we really want to wait around until Harang may get arm fatigue again before its too late to trade him? Do we play around more with Arroyo before he hits his usual inconsistent slump?

Aaron Harang is making $14 mil this year
Francisco Cordero is making $12,125,000
Bronson Arroyo is making $10,125,000

That's a TOTAL of $36,250,000 on three players that could be replaced. Maybe not exactly replaced, but Homer and Maloney wouldn't do much worse than the Arroyo/Harang combo for that money. And you can plug Arthur Rhodes in at closer and we would be fine.

It amazes me we're in a ridiculous offensive slump, and we're paying a guy $12 mil to pitch for an inning of a game when you're up 1-3 runs. It's RIDICULOUS. If you're the Yankees, Red Sox, or whoever else and doing it - thats fine. They got the money. A closer is like a luxury item though, something you would go out and get if you have the money to do it. We don't. It's like putting a GPS, nice sound system, and some spinners on some mid 80's beat up Dodge that barely runs. It makes NO SENSE.

If we trade those three guys, we can get a good bat or two, probably some decent prospects, and clear a ton of payroll for the future.

bounty37h
06-15-2009, 10:41 AM
i think he needs to make up his mind what to do now.... i say sell.... get what u can for harang (which is a lot) and arroyo (which could be pretty good) and also see if u can package hairston, gonzalez, nix and gomes in a trade... i think the time is now that we see francisco, alonso, bailey, maloney, wood/stewart, frazier, etc. start to get some REAL playing time with the big club... i don't care that maybe francisco and alonso are struggling right now in AA, let them get experience now so they can be ready to make a run next season.

Im glad I dont live in Cincy and have season tix for this year if they have to go the selling route already.