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Homer Bailey
06-18-2009, 04:14 PM
No, actually, I don't think media or fan pressure is going to faze Dusty in the slightest bit. He's either going to figure out that Taveras is a giant pile of crap, or the front office is going to do it themselves.

Well that's where we're gonna disagree. I think Dusty is going to do what he wants to do until he feels pressure to do otherwise. If he hasn't figured it out by now, and he's throwing the worst possible OBP guys at 1-2 in the lineup, then he will NEVER figure it out.

CTA513
06-18-2009, 04:15 PM
Burton replacing Roenicke. Gomes stays in LF.

I thought we might see Roenicke for another inning after his 9 pitch 8th inning.

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:19 PM
1-2-3 inning for Burton.

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:19 PM
Rosales, Janish, Taveras due up for the Reds in the 9th.

dsmith421
06-18-2009, 04:20 PM
I think Dusty is going to do what he wants to do until he feels pressure to do otherwise.

Whatever makes you feel better.

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:21 PM
Rafael Soriano now pitching for the Braves.

Homer Bailey
06-18-2009, 04:23 PM
Whatever makes you feel better.

It can't hurt.

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:24 PM
Rosales Ks. One down.

Homer Bailey
06-18-2009, 04:24 PM
I'm seriously happy that Taveras gets another chance to fail.

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:24 PM
Janish Ks. Two down.

CrackerJack
06-18-2009, 04:24 PM
Rosales, Janish, Taveras due up for the Reds in the 9th.

The modern day bash brothers...

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:26 PM
Willy has worked the count full.

Homer Bailey
06-18-2009, 04:26 PM
TAVERAS GOES DOWN SWINGING!!!!! 0 for 5!!!!

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:26 PM
And then he Ks. Ballgame.

LincolnparkRed
06-18-2009, 04:29 PM
Perfect end to Willy T's day

I think after CPat and WIlly T. Dusty should be told who bats leadoff, he obviously can't find a good one. Even the Juan Pierre days of Chicago told you he has no clue about OBP and what a good one does for your lineup

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:32 PM
The offense stunk today, as usual. But let's not forget the craptastic pitching either.

Homer Bailey
06-18-2009, 04:34 PM
The offense stunk today, as usual. But let's not forget the craptastic pitching either.

We threw our 6th starter and they got a couple of GABP home runs. It wasn't all terrible. Only allowed 8 hits and walked 4.

CrackerJack
06-18-2009, 04:35 PM
Taveras - 8 for his last 92 AB's.

And batting lead-off for just about all of them. Someone needs to kick Dusty in the pants. He's not the only problem by far, just a constant, obvious one with no real explanation. Get Dickerson some PT for God sakes. It's stupid.

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:35 PM
We threw our 6th starter and they got a couple of GABP home runs. It wasn't all terrible. Only allowed 8 hits and walked 4.

Maloney and Fisher were bad. Roenicke and Burton were good. So you're right, it wasn't all terrible.

WMR
06-18-2009, 04:37 PM
TAVERAS GOES DOWN SWINGING!!!!! 0 for 5!!!!

:clap:

What a lead-off hitter.

Homer Bailey
06-18-2009, 04:38 PM
1 for his last 46 with no walks.

RedlegJake
06-18-2009, 04:39 PM
When Maloney came several posters said he'd have his rough nights. He's a rookie, an extreme flyball guy and he's pitching in a bandbox park. I still like what I see in the guy - and I'd be polishing that apple for Washington, Seattle or San Diego like crazy.

Then again, I long ago realized GTs are the very worst place to gather critiques.

Giving a LOT of leeway on the Taveras comments, too, but bad games like this one bring out a bad vibe. So, at this point lets just let this thread die its painful death and move on.

VR
06-18-2009, 04:41 PM
1 for his last 46 with no walks.

That's an .021 batting average. Seriously.

Oh, and an .021 OBP as well.

OPS? I'll make you do the math on that one. ;)

BearcatShane
06-18-2009, 04:43 PM
I would of never dreamed he would do THIS bad. Dickerson better be starting in center tomorrow.

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:43 PM
Dickerson better be starting in center tomorrow.

Don't hold your breath.

jojo
06-18-2009, 04:44 PM
The Reds still win the series right?

WMR
06-18-2009, 04:45 PM
That's an .021 batting average. Seriously.

Oh, and an .021 OBP as well.

OPS? I'll make you do the math on that one. ;)

It's actually .0217.

I'm sure that Willy would argue that it should be rounded up to .022. Quit trying to shortchange the guy. :D

BRM
06-18-2009, 04:51 PM
The Reds still win the series right?

That hard to tell?

WMR
06-18-2009, 04:53 PM
The Reds still win the series right?

It's difficult to stomach seemingly willful stupidity day after day after day even when the Reds happen to also accomplish the Pyrrhic victory of a regular-season series win.

jojo
06-18-2009, 05:02 PM
It's difficult to stomach seemingly willful stupidity day after day after day even when the Reds happen to also accomplish the Pyrrhic victory of a regular-season series win.

I know but we've been given a gift whether it feels like it or not. I think the Reds are roughly a .500 team with Votto, EE and Voquez. Even though the Reds have been without them, the dream still remains.

_Sir_Charles_
06-18-2009, 05:03 PM
I'm not going to get into a debate with you about it. Suffice it to say, I've seen Taveras play effectively against the Reds and believe that he can be effective. Right now he needs to come out of the lineup because he is not being effective.

I agree with this. I think he can still be an asset to the team, but whoever it is, when someone is struggling THIS badly...you need to bench them. If you're unable to bench them due to injuries and such...then you at the bare minimum move them WAY down in the order. Leading off during a stretch like this...I simply can't see the logic behind it.

BRM
06-18-2009, 05:03 PM
Good post jojo. We are pretty lucky the Reds have been able to hang around .500 without those players.

WMR
06-18-2009, 05:07 PM
I know but we've been given a gift whether it feels like it or not. I think the Reds are roughly a .500 team with Votto, EE and Voquez. Even though the Reds have been without them, the dream still remains.

See, I agree with your estimations and that just gets me even madder.

Imagine if the Reds were being put into prime position to succeed rather than being forced to rise above their own freaking manager to achieve victory?!

membengal
06-18-2009, 05:09 PM
See, I agree with your estimations and that just gets me even madder.

Imagine if the Reds were being put into prime position to succeed rather than being forced to rise above their own freaking manager to achieve victory?!

Dusty's line-up was NOT optimal, far from it, but I don't know how much he can do to really change things up. Start Dickerson, bat Hanigan second, play Janish? Other than that...what, exactly? There just is not enough talent on that team offensively to consistently succeed without Votto, EE, and a legit bat in LF. There really isn't.

I would like Dusty to make those few moves he can make, but, still, this is ultimately on Walt and ownership...

redsmetz
06-18-2009, 05:10 PM
The Reds still win the series right?

I think it's a plus, since winning games is the important thing, frustrating offense notwithstanding. And it's only the 2nd time we've been shutout this season (the other was also 7-0, against the Astros - a little ironic).

VR
06-18-2009, 05:12 PM
The Reds still win the series right?

Indeed.....let's hope Dusty doesn't use that logic for the next series, seeing how it worked so well. :beerme:

Like I've said, good pitching is a very cool thing.

jojo
06-18-2009, 05:16 PM
It'll be fun when that worm turns. It always does.

When the worm turns with Bruce, the sea is going to draw away from the beach....i'd recommend just moving to the mountains because the incoming wave is gonna destroy stuff.

BTW, Dusty is doiing exactly what he should with Bruce. Pencil him in and let him play regardless of the boxscore.

lollipopcurve
06-18-2009, 05:25 PM
I would like Dusty to make those few moves he can make, but, still, this is ultimately on Walt and ownership

I know what you're saying, but there appears to be at least one painfully obvious upgrade within Baker's grasp, sitting there on his 25-man roster.

Once Dickerson showed he could defend well in CF, there was no reasonable excuse to keep him out of the lineup -- in spot starts at the very least. Yet he is getting zero starts while Taveras careens through bad AB after bad after AB in what must be a slump of historic proportions. In my opinion, that's on Baker.

membengal
06-18-2009, 05:31 PM
Don't get me wrong, that move should be made (I think my views on that have been made clear elsewhere), it's just...once it's made, then what?

This team's options are limited. They are above .500, I have to give Dusty some credit for that. I wish he had been provided a quiver with better arrows in it.

OldXOhio
06-18-2009, 05:31 PM
Rosales, Janish, Taveras due up for the Reds in the 9th.

Woot woot. Let's party like it's 1982.

RED VAN HOT
06-18-2009, 10:09 PM
When Maloney came several posters said he'd have his rough nights. He's a rookie, an extreme flyball guy and he's pitching in a bandbox park. I still like what I see in the guy - and I'd be polishing that apple for Washington, Seattle or San Diego like crazy.

Then again, I long ago realized GTs are the very worst place to gather critiques.

Giving a LOT of leeway on the Taveras comments, too, but bad games like this one bring out a bad vibe. So, at this point lets just let this thread die its painful death and move on.

I am one of those posters who thought Maloney would have a hard time initially. Still, his performance to date has been short of what I expected. He is averaging one HR every 12.5 batters. Batters are sitting on the waist high fastball in the high 80's. If he is going to be successful, he either needs to work a foot lower or dial it up 5 MPH higher. I'm assuming the former is the only real alternative.

Razor Shines
06-19-2009, 04:04 AM
Not sure why folks would be surprised at the outcome of this game: Hanson has MLB arm written all over him; Maloney has tax-preparer all over him.

Yeah, he might be a little better than Bobby Livingston, but not much. Bobby didn't give up quite as many homers, Matt stikes out a few more hitters.

REDREAD
06-19-2009, 09:23 AM
1-2-3 inning for Burton.


Nice silver lining for this game, hopefully Burton continues to improve.