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View Full Version : Heads Up Leake Pitching 6/19 in CWS. Apparently healthy.



membengal
06-19-2009, 09:23 PM
On ESPN2.

He just pitched the first, two quick outs, two singles, and then ended the inning with no runs scoring.

membengal
06-19-2009, 09:30 PM
ASU with one in and two on in their half of the first, only one out.

redsfandan
06-19-2009, 09:34 PM
All I care about are his mechanics and how long he's out there. If he really does have tendinitis he may try to overthrow to compensate which wouldn't be good.

membengal
06-19-2009, 09:36 PM
He looked pretty decent in the first, smoother than the other night.

No idea what the real story is with his health, but he's pitching, so cross fingers.

membengal
06-19-2009, 09:40 PM
Leake through two innings, 3 hits allowed, no runs, 4 Ks. Pitching in the third now. 1-0 ASU lead.

membengal
06-19-2009, 09:43 PM
1-2 pitch looked like strike at the knees, called a ball. Then next pitch a HR.

1-1 game top of 3rd.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:05 PM
ASU up 2-1 heading into the 5th. Leake much better, obviously, on this evening than he was on Tuesday night. 5 Ks, I think, for Leake, through four innings. He's allowed one walk.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:19 PM
Huh. ASU manager is being interviewed, and acknowledges that Leake is not 100%. Acknowledges he is pitching through tendenitis.

Ack. ACK.

4 1P 5 hits, 1 earned run, 1 walk, 5 Ks so far.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:20 PM
Announcers assure us that Pat Murphy, the ASU manager, "cares deeply" for Mike Leake. Uh huh.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:21 PM
Leadoff double for Texas off Leake to start the 5th.

When the Reds sign Leake, they need to put a big bag of ice on his arm and tell them they will see him in February.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:23 PM
Sac moves runner to third. One down, runner on third.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:26 PM
Announcers talking about how badly Leake wanted to pitch tonight to make up for the other night.

Admirable.

And, something that he should have been told, "no, we got your back". Instead, they run him out there on short rest with an arm that is apparently not 100%. I don't get amatuer coaches sometimes.

2-2 game on a single.

Leake looks tired to me, his pitches are elevated and hanging.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:27 PM
Now the sideline reporter talking about how Leake is "short-arming" breaking balls to help with the pain.

What part of any of this sounds good to anyone?

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:27 PM
Murphy goes to mound, conference, and they leave him out there.

Weeeeeeeee.

The issue is reportedly "tricep tendenitis".

Double weeeeeeeee.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:31 PM
Leake picks up his 6th K and then a ground out to SS ends the inning.

2-2 game after five.

Leake's a gamer. That's good, I suppose. Not smart, I would mention, but, hey. It's not my career.

lollipopcurve
06-19-2009, 10:35 PM
The kid's a competitor. I'd love to see him when he's feeling good. No question that what he's doing tonight is not good for his arm.

HokieRed
06-19-2009, 10:38 PM
I've watched the whole game and while I haven't charted the pitches it looks like the strategy has been to throw a lot more fastballs and try to get guys with movement and location. His curveball hasn't been very sharp at all, mostly soft and looping. If he signs, he should certainly be shut down.

redsfandan
06-19-2009, 10:40 PM
How about if ASU scores a bunch this inning so they can pull Leake (not that I wouldn't have pulled him already).

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:46 PM
Leake's back in for the 6th. The madness, it continues.

Leadoff single, absolutely smoked, to 3b.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:49 PM
Sac moves runner up.

No one up in ASU bullpen.

7th K leaves runner at second.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:50 PM
Liner to center ends inning.

Still 2-2 after six.

Shawn_RedsFan
06-19-2009, 10:52 PM
Just turned the game on, anyone know how many pitches he is at(roughly)??

davereds24
06-19-2009, 10:53 PM
It's not like the Reds need this guy to be on the roster in a year or two anyway, SP is one of their deepest positions.

Leake deserves to play if he wants, just shut him down the rest of the year or at least most of it. A competitor like this is what this organization is all about, Walt sure knew what he was doing.

membengal
06-19-2009, 10:56 PM
davereds, it isn't about him pitching for the Reds in a year or two, it's about him still having a career.

This is not a risk I would want anyone to take.

davereds24
06-19-2009, 11:12 PM
i understand but it's his choice, he's not signed. nobody knows the extent of the injury. it doesn't sound like tendinitis is a high risk for further serious injury, although there obviously is some. im sure many doctors and his family when over all the possibilities. it would be different if he had a tear of some sort.

membengal
06-19-2009, 11:13 PM
It's NOT his choice, it is his manager's choice. That guy should have shut him down.

LoganBuck
06-19-2009, 11:17 PM
i understand but it's his choice, he's not signed. nobody knows the extent of the injury. it doesn't sound like tendinitis is a high risk for further serious injury, although there obviously is some. im sure many doctors and his family when over all the possibilities. it would be different if he had a tear of some sort.

Two words: Dallas Buck

Do some research on the subject.

membengal
06-19-2009, 11:17 PM
Leake's final line:

6 IP, 8 hits, 2 runs, both earned, 1 walk, 7 Ks 85 pitches (57 for strikes).

Game is still 2-2 in the 8th.

davereds24
06-19-2009, 11:25 PM
Two words: Dallas Buck

Do some research on the subject.

not the same injury, do some research

redsfandan
06-19-2009, 11:31 PM
nobody knows the extent of the injury. it doesn't sound like tendinitis is a high risk for further serious injury, ...
Tendinitis doesn't bother me too much. But anytime a pitcher isn't 100% there's always a risk that it could potentially result in a more serious injury if he keeps pitching. THAT'S my concern.

HokieRed
06-19-2009, 11:35 PM
Tendinitis doesn't bother me too much. But anytime a pitcher isn't 100% there's always a risk that it could potentially result in a more serious injury if he keeps pitching. THAT'S my concern.


Agree, but I think the kind of thing we're seeing with Leake is commonplace in college baseball.

LoganBuck
06-19-2009, 11:35 PM
not the same injury, do some research

What are you talking about? The point is Buck's coach ran him into the ground, and probably cost him millions of dollars, and quite possibly his major league career. The coach is in a position of power, he has to be the adult, not the firebrand.

redsfandan
06-19-2009, 11:41 PM
Hopefully he's shut down for awhile.

Az. Reds Fan
06-20-2009, 12:07 AM
He's shut down til the Reds say so now...assuming he signs

REDblooded
06-20-2009, 02:00 AM
Why sign him? Let him go, take the 8th pick next season in what should be a better draft, and take a flier in the INT. market this season.

Az. Reds Fan
06-20-2009, 02:15 AM
Why sign him? Let him go, take the 8th pick next season in what should be a better draft, and take a flier in the INT. market this season.

Why sign him? because of tendinitis that was so bad that he pitched 6 innings of 2 run ball with 7 K's? :confused:

I'm sure the Reds will take all the precautions necessary to make sure he is healthy before signing him.

tripleaaaron
06-20-2009, 02:36 AM
Why sign him? because of tendinitis that was so bad that he pitched 6 innings of 2 run ball with 7 K's? :confused:

I'm sure the Reds will take all the precautions necessary to make sure he is healthy before signing him.

Yeah, they may also get a better deal now as well.

joshnky
06-20-2009, 10:20 AM
Agree, but I think the kind of thing we're seeing with Leake is commonplace in college baseball.

Agreed. The coaches are paid to win and the fans of the college teams also want to see success. As major league fans it is sometimes difficult to understand the college game where the attachment is more to the program than to the individual players who will only be there a few years. If the kid wants to risk his arm and he is your best shot at winning it is certainly understandable.

If I was an Arizona St fan I would want Leake out there pitching in my teams biggest game. Even if he wasn't 100%.

Blitz Dorsey
06-20-2009, 10:49 AM
The Reds will sign Leake. They are not going to punt the No. 8 overall pick when one of the reasons they took Leake was signability. His "injury" (and it doesn't look like much of one) will make it that much easier for the Reds to sign him.

redsfandan
06-20-2009, 10:53 AM
Yeah, they may also get a better deal now as well.
If this affected when he could start in the Reds system or his long term future than I'd agree. But if it's still nothing serious then I doubt it would have much, if any, effect on contract negotiations.

If I was an Arizona St fan I would want Leake out there pitching in my teams biggest game. Even if he wasn't 100%.
Yeah and if I was an ASU fan I probably would too. But I'm a fan of the team that just drafted him in the 1st round. I bet the Reds brass were paying attention to how he did. What's best for the college team isn't always best for the major league team (or the pitcher).

dougdirt
06-20-2009, 11:31 AM
The Reds will sign Leake. They are not going to punt the No. 8 overall pick when one of the reasons they took Leake was signability. His "injury" (and it doesn't look like much of one) will make it that much easier for the Reds to sign him.

I don't think the Reds took Leake for signability reasons. Heck, I can't think of anyone who thinks that other than yourself. Simply not drafting Aaron Crow doesn't mean they took someone for monetary issues.

HokieRed
06-20-2009, 12:17 PM
Frankly the more I see of Leake the more surprised I am he lasted to us in the draft. He's got a lot of movement and a really good idea how to pitch. I thought what he did last night was very impressive because you could see he was working with only a fraction of his arsenal, most specifically without his good sharp breaking curve ball. Unless the injury is very much worse than it's being described, I don't think there's a doubt we'll sign him and I think we'll be a whole lot happier with him than what we might wait a year to get.

KoryMac5
06-20-2009, 06:35 PM
Why sign him? Let him go, take the 8th pick next season in what should be a better draft, and take a flier in the INT. market this season.

I would imagine some clubs might think of doing this in the future or have done so already in the past. It makes sense if you are a little devious, in that 09 was a weak draft 2010 is shaping up to be stronger punt the pick and have two high ones for 2010. Does Mlb have any safeguards against clubs doing this?

redsfandan
06-20-2009, 06:46 PM
Off the top of my head if a team doesn't sign a player then you get an extra pick the following year. But when you use that pick in the 2nd year if you don't sign the player you don't get "reimbursed" again. The Nationals couldn't sign Aaron Crow last year so they received an extra high pick this year. Although it wasn't considered a strong draft this year they didn't have any choice. If they didn't sign the player they took with the extra pick this year they wouldn't be "reimbursed" with another pick next year.

BLEEDS
06-21-2009, 12:28 PM
I watched Mike Leake pitch on Friday night, in person.
He's going to be fine methinks.

I was in the stands up and past 3B, so I had a pretty good view of his pitches to the plate - although not so great East-West on the plate obviously.

Whatever pitch he makes where the guys are done swinging and then the ball comes in low and/or bounces off the plate is a great one. I'm guessing it was his change.

His fastball had plenty of pop in it and he must have been spotting it great because there were a lot of called strikes.

He looked great from the stretch.

That one homerun to LF is an easy fly ball, and those two stingers past 3rd base would have been easy ground balls. Other than that, he really didn't give up many "real" MLB hits.

Just my observations.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

redsof72
06-23-2009, 10:55 PM
A little too much is made of the tendenitis, in my opinion. Many pitchers pitch with some soreness in their arms every time they pitch. You could say that half the starting pitchers in the minor leagues are pitching with some tendenitis. Only Leake knows how much it is bothering him. If it is bothering him enough that he starts changing his delivery/arm angle, putting stress on other parts of his arm (especially the elbow), then you have a problem.

I would be more concerned with simply the number of innings he has thrown this season, and that total is quite high. College baseball is a different world. Guys throw 160 pitches in a college game, then turn pro, and see their pitch limit cut to 90. Matt Fairel told me his pitch limit at Florida State was 140. I think the Serrano kid the Reds drafted out of Oral Roberts threw 168 pitches in his last start (against Arizona State ironically).

I don't expect to see Leake sign until a few hours before the deadline. He has thrown his last inning until instructional league, and he won't throw many there either.

College coaches have different priorities. Some are more abusive than others, but they all are paid to win games. They are not in a developmental situation. They would tell you that if they thought it was hurting the kid to let him throw 140 pitches, then they wouldn't do it. They are convinced that what they are doing is ok. I do know this: The game Pat Murphy was trying to win was as important to him as it was to Charlie Manuel for the Phillies in the World Series last October.

I remember, years ago, a kid from my hometown threw 180 pitches in a game in the college world series and then made a relief appearance THE NEXT NIGHT for that team. That was total craziness. That coach is in the top 10 all-time in career victories in college baseball. Different world. Different priorities.

Kingspoint
06-24-2009, 07:14 PM
I watched Mike Leake pitch on Friday night, in person.
He's going to be fine methinks.

I was in the stands up and past 3B, so I had a pretty good view of his pitches to the plate - although not so great East-West on the plate obviously.

Whatever pitch he makes where the guys are done swinging and then the ball comes in low and/or bounces off the plate is a great one. I'm guessing it was his change.

His fastball had plenty of pop in it and he must have been spotting it great because there were a lot of called strikes.

He looked great from the stretch.

That one homerun to LF is an easy fly ball, and those two stingers past 3rd base would have been easy ground balls. Other than that, he really didn't give up many "real" MLB hits.

Just my observations.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

That had to be great to be in Omaha to watch that. One of these days I'm going to go.

fearofpopvol1
06-24-2009, 07:48 PM
A little too much is made of the tendenitis, in my opinion. Many pitchers pitch with some soreness in their arms every time they pitch. You could say that half the starting pitchers in the minor leagues are pitching with some tendenitis. Only Leake knows how much it is bothering him. If it is bothering him enough that he starts changing his delivery/arm angle, putting stress on other parts of his arm (especially the elbow), then you have a problem.

I would be more concerned with simply the number of innings he has thrown this season, and that total is quite high. College baseball is a different world. Guys throw 160 pitches in a college game, then turn pro, and see their pitch limit cut to 90. Matt Fairel told me his pitch limit at Florida State was 140. I think the Serrano kid the Reds drafted out of Oral Roberts threw 168 pitches in his last start (against Arizona State ironically).

I don't expect to see Leake sign until a few hours before the deadline. He has thrown his last inning until instructional league, and he won't throw many there either.

College coaches have different priorities. Some are more abusive than others, but they all are paid to win games. They are not in a developmental situation. They would tell you that if they thought it was hurting the kid to let him throw 140 pitches, then they wouldn't do it. They are convinced that what they are doing is ok. I do know this: The game Pat Murphy was trying to win was as important to him as it was to Charlie Manuel for the Phillies in the World Series last October.

I remember, years ago, a kid from my hometown threw 180 pitches in a game in the college world series and then made a relief appearance THE NEXT NIGHT for that team. That was total craziness. That coach is in the top 10 all-time in career victories in college baseball. Different world. Different priorities.

I don't doubt 1 word you're saying. In fact, I think it's true. But don't you think the kids should be skeptical or say something? I realize that makes them look "un-cool," but it is their future there too. A career ending arm injury before you sign your contract or throwing out your arm before your arbitration eligible isn't going to help your chances at getting rich.

I guess basically, I'm thinking there should be a middle ground between doing what's best for the team and what's best for the kid.

Scrap Irony
06-24-2009, 08:39 PM
In football and basketball, players who play hurt are "warriors" and are glorified. Why would baseball athletes be different than others?

You're thinking in terms of professional contracts. They're thinking of winnings conference, regional, and national championships.

redsof72
06-24-2009, 10:35 PM
You hope the college coaches don't cross the line. We are talking really about two different things here: 1) Pitching with an injury; 2) Overuse.

No minor league pitching coach would ever, ever let a 21 year old kid throw 140 pitches in a game in this day and age. If he did, the next day, when that pitcher came to the ballpark, he would have a different pitching coach because the other one would have been fired. Do you think that pitch limit is because of his concern for the kid or because he is protecting the organization's investment? The minor league pitching coach is paid to develop the kid. The college coach is paid to win games. The intensity to win at the college level is so far beyond what you see in the minor leagues that it is two totally different worlds.

The kid has to be smart. But does he know the difference between normal soreness and something that might be more serious? He is 20 or 21 years old. I see players in the minors that age that don't have the maturity to understand you can't stay out until 2:00 a.m. the night before you pitch. An adult would understand that with potentially millions to make, you get your rest. Is the kid going to say, hey, it is the CWS and I am able to get hitters out and my team is counting on me and we worked all season to get to this point, but I am going to shut it down? Probably not. And quite honestly, unless you are a first rounder, the odds are, you may never get to pitch in another game as big as the one you are in now.

I don't know the Leake situation at all. I do know the Reds sixth round pick, Serrano, threw 168 pitches in his last start, and I know the pitchers on the Dayton team are out of the game at around 90 pitches. I know both the college coach and the Dayton coach are both doing what they think is best and the kid is in the middle.

I also know that we, as Reds fans, underestimate how important it is to college coaches to win. If the kid tells him he is ok to go out for another inning and the kid is pitching well, the last thing some coaches are thinking about is where that same kid is going to be pitching in five years. Certainly, some are better and worse than others when it comes to thinking about the interests of the pitcher.

bubbachunk
06-24-2009, 11:07 PM
In football and basketball, players who play hurt are "warriors" and are glorified. Why would baseball athletes be different than others?

You're thinking in terms of professional contracts. They're thinking of winnings conference, regional, and national championships.

Probably because most guys who do that in those sports are not threatening their career by playing in that one game. Very very rarely does playing with a sprained ankle lead to a guy having surgery that can rob him of at least a year and possibly the rest of his career.

Blitz Dorsey
06-25-2009, 02:29 AM
The problem is... what often is diagnosed as "tendonitis" is actually something more serious. Not always, but often.

I'm encouraged after seeing Leake his last start that he does not have a serious injury, but I just wanted to point that out. I can't count the number of times over the years I've heard a pitcher has tendonitis and then magically a couple weeks later he goes on the DL for a month or three.

camisadelgolf
06-25-2009, 02:39 AM
tendinitis = bad mechanics or overuse or both