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View Full Version : Gonzalez to DL, Maloney to AAA, Richar, Castillo Recalled, EE to 60 day DL



reds44
06-20-2009, 04:25 PM
Shortstop Alex Gonzalez was put on the disabled list with an elbow problem. He has four loose bodies floating in the area. He'll have surgery. They're hoping he'll be back in four weeks. He hurt on a swing in the final game with the Braves.

Wilkin Castillo and Danny Richar are being added to the roster. A couple of more moves are coming. Richar has to be added to 40-man. The moves won't be announced until the tell the players affected.

-Fay

wheels
06-20-2009, 04:39 PM
Wow.

Talk about not getting value from a contract.

Geesh.

BCubb2003
06-20-2009, 04:45 PM
He has four loose bodies floating in the area.

That's worse than when Freel had Farney.

Highlifeman21
06-20-2009, 04:47 PM
We have a Danny Richar sighting...

... and that ain't a good thing

nate
06-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Four loose bodies floating in your elbow?

Wasn't that a porno title?

:cool:

Kc61
06-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Wow.

Talk about not getting value from a contract.

Geesh.

Probably amazing Gonzo played as much as he did this year. Whatever, he's not the future on the Reds.

Just a guess now -- I'd guess that Rosales goes to AAA and somebody else comes off the 40-man roster to make room for Richar. The theory would be that Richar fits better than Rosales with Gonzalez out and middle infield depth weakened. Don't know who would be dropped from the 40.

But it sounds very mysterious.

reds44
06-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Probably amazing Gonzo played as much as he did this year. Whatever, he's not the future on the Reds.

Just a guess now -- I'd guess that Rosales goes to AAA and somebody else comes off the 40-man roster to make room for Richar. The theory would be that Richar fits better than Rosales with Gonzalez out and middle infield depth weakened. Don't know who would be dropped from the 40.

But it sounds very mysterious.
Considering Rosales is starting at 3B tonight, I don't think it is.

Kc61
06-20-2009, 04:51 PM
We have a Danny Richar sighting...

... and that ain't a good thing



Richar had been hitting well lately at AAA.

I see Rosales is playing tonight so my previous comment is officially withdrawn.

TheNext44
06-20-2009, 04:51 PM
The Reds have 13 pitchers currently, I would imagine Burton goes down to make room for Castillo.

wheels
06-20-2009, 04:53 PM
The Reds have 13 pitchers currently, I would imagine Burton goes down to make room for Castillo.

Hopefully it's not Roenicke. I still haven't seen him pitch.

Cedric
06-20-2009, 04:54 PM
What is the lineup tonight? Can't find it.

TheNext44
06-20-2009, 04:55 PM
Richar had been hitting well lately at AAA.



Richar:

.378 .417 .644 1.061

in the month of June in AAA

And he was once a top prospect, with a lot of power.

lollipopcurve
06-20-2009, 04:55 PM
Maybe now that they'll have some LH bats on the bench, Baker will be able to bring himself to start 3 LH bats in the OF vs. righties.

Not a big Richar fan, but he has been playing well lately. Had a few starts at SS, if memory serves.

_Sir_Charles_
06-20-2009, 04:57 PM
What is the lineup tonight? Can't find it.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a21fae874-f5a6-4587-aea4-bbe8cbf7126c&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

I won't post the lineup, 'cuz I don't think we're supposed to here.

redsfandan
06-20-2009, 05:01 PM
Richar has played only 7 games at short this year. Guess we'll be seeing Janish hit 2nd alot the next month.

Caveat Emperor
06-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Richar has played only 7 games at short this year. Guess we'll be seeing Janish hit 2nd alot the next month.

An infield of Rosales, Janish, Phillips and Votto would at least be incredibly efficient defensively.

And, really, it'd be tough for Janish to be less-effective offensively than Gonzalez.

reds44
06-20-2009, 05:37 PM
Maloney to AAA, Edwin to the 60 day DL were the other two moves.



Today the Reds optioned to Class AAA Louisville LHP Matt Maloney; recalled from Louisville utility player Wilkin Castillo (#26); placed on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to yesterday, SS Alex Gonzalez (loose bodies, right elbow); transfered to the 60-day disabled list 3B Edwin Encarnacion (broken left wrist); selected from Louisville the contract of IF Danny Richar (#9).



Maloney went 0-2, 6.11 in his 3 starts for the Reds.



The Reds' pitching rotation for the series in Toronto now features RHP Micah Owings on Tuesday, RHP Bronson Arroyo on Wednesday and RHP Johnny Cueto on Thursday, followed by RHP Aaron Harang on Friday at Cleveland...the Reds won't need a fifth starter until Saturday at Cleveland.

Falls City Beer
06-20-2009, 05:42 PM
Well, you can probably guess from this that a 3rd baseman is going to be acquired. IMO.

Cedric
06-20-2009, 05:42 PM
So is Volquez probably ready for next Saturday? Homer is scheduled for tomorrow right? He would be in line for the Saturday start no?

kaldaniels
06-20-2009, 05:43 PM
What does this say about EE...I mean he's nearing 60 days on the DL anyway...is there anything to read into on this...or is it just a formality?

Brutus
06-20-2009, 05:50 PM
What does this say about EE...I mean he's nearing 60 days on the DL anyway...is there anything to read into on this...or is it just a formality?

It means being on the 60-day DL, they don't have to replace someone on the 40-man roster until he's activated (if I recall correctly).

Cedric
06-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Got my days mixed up. Homer pitches Monday.

Anyone know if Edinson will be ready? Or will Homer be the likely pick for next Saturday?

Falls City Beer
06-20-2009, 05:54 PM
It means being on the 60-day DL, they don't have to replace someone on the 40-man roster until he's activated (if I recall correctly).

Ah, didn't realize this could be done retroactively.

nate
06-20-2009, 06:00 PM
Ah, didn't realize this could be done retroactively.

Me either. I thought it meant he'd be out for another 60 days.

Jpup
06-20-2009, 06:02 PM
Well, you can probably guess from this that a 3rd baseman is going to be acquired. IMO.

That should have happened 2 months ago.

Brutus
06-20-2009, 06:07 PM
Me either. I thought it meant he'd be out for another 60 days.

Nope. I'm positive of that. Teams are just very cautious to transfer a player because obviously once they do, they have to wait until 60 days have passed before a player is eligible. The only part I have any lingering doubt about is whether a player transferred retroactively can then be stashed away without counting toward the 40-man limit (even then, I'm about 95 percent sure they can be).

TheNext44
06-20-2009, 06:25 PM
EE is eligible to come off the DL in one week, on Sat. June 27.

Joseph
06-20-2009, 06:38 PM
How....uneventful.

edabbs44
06-20-2009, 06:51 PM
I think this effectively ends the Gonzo saga.

Redhook
06-20-2009, 06:58 PM
I think this effectively ends the Gonzo saga.

Hopefully. I'd like for him to never put on a Reds uniform again. Nothing personally, I just can't stand him as a player.

wheels
06-20-2009, 07:03 PM
I really can't believe they're 2 games over .500.

This has been a patch job since May.

If Walt ends up making a trade, it's because these guys have earned it.

klw
06-20-2009, 07:17 PM
I would moan about Castillo but he has as many hits in June for the big league Reds as tonight's leadoff hitter.

marcshoe
06-20-2009, 07:45 PM
No surprise to see Maloney go down. I've been at the last three games, and Maloney stood out because he didn't look like a major league pitcher. Nearly every ball hit off of him was stung.

Brutus
06-20-2009, 07:50 PM
No surprise to see Maloney go down. I've been at the last three games, and Maloney stood out because he didn't look like a major league pitcher. Nearly every ball hit off of him was stung.

His performance had little to do with his being sent down. It was the fact they needed some position help and they did not need another starter until next week. Though Maloney certainly did not pitch well (gave up 6 homers in 17 innings), he also struck out 14 while walking just five in those same 17 innings. The second part of that (the walk to strikeout ratio) is actually pretty good.

fearofpopvol1
06-20-2009, 07:54 PM
Sucks about Gonzo, actually. While I think Dusty consistently batted him in the wrong spot, his glove was very good this year. And I imagine Hairston will mostly start at SS (when it should be Janish IMO).

marcshoe
06-20-2009, 09:22 PM
His performance had little to do with his being sent down. It was the fact they needed some position help and they did not need another starter until next week. Though Maloney certainly did not pitch well (gave up 6 homers in 17 innings), he also struck out 14 while walking just five in those same 17 innings. The second part of that (the walk to strikeout ratio) is actually pretty good.

It's good if the strikes are quality pitches. At least Thursday, he was practically throwing batting practice.

Kc61
06-20-2009, 09:30 PM
It's good if the strikes are quality pitches. At least Thursday, he was practically throwing batting practice.

Maloney just gives up too many long balls. It's that simple. He's learned to avoid walks and he gets his share of Ks, but pitching at GABP you have to keep the ball in the stadium.

When the next opportunity comes for a starter, I'd be surprised to see Maloney get the call. He'd probably do better in a more forgiving ballpark.

Brutus
06-20-2009, 09:41 PM
Maloney just gives up too many long balls. It's that simple. He's learned to avoid walks and he gets his share of Ks, but pitching at GABP you have to keep the ball in the stadium.

When the next opportunity comes for a starter, I'd be surprised to see Maloney get the call. He'd probably do better in a more forgiving ballpark.

In the minor leagues, he was giving up a home run only every 20+ innings. That tells me that his biggest problem is learning when and where to locate the changeup at the major league level. Quite honestly, I feel he's a good enough pitcher to learn that. It has to come from experience though.

marcshoe
06-20-2009, 09:51 PM
I know it's a small sample size, but Maloney's 29% ground ball rate since he was called up doesn't play very well here. I wish I knew where to find some sort of charts for this, but several of the balls that were caught were hit very hard (line drives, long fly balls). I know little about BABIP, but I was curious as to what Maloney's looked like this year, since he both looked bad and lucky Thursday. I didn't know if these two things would cancel out or not. It turns out his BABIP in his short time up was 261, so things could have been worse.

If that makes no sense, have pity on me; I'm an old guy.

kc61, I agree that he likely won't be up when they need another starter. I saw something the other day about Bailey adding an effective splitter (I would guess there's a thread around here somewhere). One more try?

btw, in contrast to Maloney, I thought Owings looked average Wednesday. Nothing special, but serviceable.

marcshoe
06-20-2009, 09:54 PM
In the minor leagues, he was giving up a home run only every 20+ innings. That tells me that his biggest problem is learning when and where to locate the changeup at the major league level. Quite honestly, I feel he's a good enough pitcher to learn that. It has to come from experience though.

Maybe. He certainly wouldn't be the first pitcher to tak a while to adjust. If they give him the chance, though, I'd prefer it to be in the bullpen.

Degenerate39
06-20-2009, 10:11 PM
Will we ever see Stubbs called up?

Kc61
06-20-2009, 10:17 PM
Maybe. He certainly wouldn't be the first pitcher to tak a while to adjust. If they give him the chance, though, I'd prefer it to be in the bullpen.

Maloney's never been a reliever, the Reds are loaded with young relievers, I just don't see Maloney being given a relief trial with the Reds.

And his homer rate at AAA this year isn't a particularly meaningful stat to me. Maloney has always been a fly ball pitcher. The difference this year at AAA is that he was too good for the league. But in the majors, where the hitters are better, the homers return.

Don't get me wrong, I like Maloney, I think he can pitch in the major leagues. But the Reds' stadium is just a terrible place for Maloney to pitch. Just a bad match.

tripleaaaron
06-20-2009, 10:53 PM
Richar has played only 7 games at short this year. Guess we'll be seeing Janish hit 2nd alot the next month.
What manager does your Reds have, because my Reds are coached by Dusty and that means Hairston gets 99% of the SS at-bats.

_Sir_Charles_
06-20-2009, 11:27 PM
Add Phillips to this list, because I forsee a DL stint in his near future.

Big Klu
06-20-2009, 11:32 PM
Add Phillips to this list, because I forsee a DL stint in his near future.

That could be the move the Reds make when Votto is activated.

_Sir_Charles_
06-20-2009, 11:38 PM
That could be the move the Reds make when Votto is activated.

If Phillips is out, it forces several things based on our current roster I'd think.

Hairston is at 2nd, Janish is at short and Rosales is at 3rd with Ramon still at 1st. Only other real option is Richar at 2nd.

Not a single starter there. Not ONE. And people wonder why we've been scrapeing by.

I'd like to see us bring up Frazier from AA to play 3rd and maybe Sutton for 2nd. I haven't seen/heard enough from Sutton to know for sure, but I don't think Richar is the answer there. I fully believe that Frazier can handle the bigs right now though.

Other options that aren't options any longer: Bankston injured today, Alonso injured 2 days ago. Valaika just came off the DL, I wouldn't even consider him yet until he gets his legs under him.

Kc61
06-21-2009, 12:03 AM
I wouldn't rush Frazier, I'd give him some AAA time and use Sutton if another infielder is needed. You are right that the infield is thin and with Votto, EE and Phillips all with injuries very few major league infields would be in good shape.

Don't know what has happened to Rosales, but he's really been exposed. He plays nice defense at third but his hitting has really dropped. Disappointing effort to end game tonight with bat on shoulder for last two called strikes.

Some years the injury bug gets you, this year it has, but I wouldn't rush the minor league guys. Still think Frazier and Heisey will get to AAA next week after the Southern League half season ends. Frazier played some third base tonight with Francisco out for some reason.

Jpup
06-21-2009, 08:37 AM
Don't know what has happened to Rosales,

he was never very good to begin with?

westofyou
06-21-2009, 10:40 AM
he was never very good to begin with?

No... how can THAT be?....He practically had his own fan club thread.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75335

mth123
06-21-2009, 12:03 PM
Phillps is in the line-up today. Hopefully he's fine.

jojo
06-21-2009, 12:08 PM
Phillips missing any significant amount of time would be a huge blow to the Reds-he's been their most valuable player thus far (based upon WAR) to the tune of almost a win more than the next most valuable fellow...

Like him, love him, hate him, or meh him, he's one guy the Reds absolutely can not afford to lose if they hope to make a playoff run.

_Sir_Charles_
06-21-2009, 12:13 PM
Frazier played some third base tonight with Francisco out for some reason.


3b Juan Francisco (Carolina) left last night’s game at Tennessee in the 9th inning with a right hamstring strain...he will not be in tonight’s lineup and will be evaluated again sometime before this evening’s game.

KronoRed
06-21-2009, 03:18 PM
No... how can THAT be?....He practically had his own fan club thread.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75335

That's funny reading now

fearofpopvol1
06-21-2009, 03:40 PM
No... how can THAT be?....He practically had his own fan club thread.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75335

His bat is not very good, but at least he can play defense. He's light years better than Hairston with the glove at 3B.

westofyou
06-21-2009, 04:44 PM
His bat is not very good, but at least he can play defense. He's light years better than Hairston with the glove at 3B.

That would be great if it was 1909 not 2009. He's an AAA player exposed by the light of MLB play.

Mario-Rijo
06-21-2009, 05:52 PM
That would be great if it was 1909 not 2009. He's an AAA player exposed by the light of MLB play.

He may not be a major league starter but I'd say that's a bit premature. Just because he hasn't done all that well to this point being used inconsistently doesn't mean he isn't a future pretty solid UT type player. I see absolutely no reason why he can't play in the majors.

westofyou
06-21-2009, 05:56 PM
He may not be a major league starter but I'd say that's a bit premature. Just because he hasn't done all that well to this point being used inconsistently doesn't mean he isn't a future pretty solid UT type player. I see absolutely no reason why he can't play in the majors.

124 ab's and his slg and ob% are below .300, what he is a is a 25th guy, at best Rex Hudler, Steve Lyons.

Tony Cloninger
06-21-2009, 06:08 PM
Ray Knight looked like this back in 1977-78.....no way i thought he would hit at all when he became the starter in 1979. Not the way he did that year.

GOYA
06-21-2009, 08:08 PM
EE is playing for Louisville tonight.

He is 0-2 with a walk.

fearofpopvol1
06-21-2009, 08:20 PM
That would be great if it was 1909 not 2009. He's an AAA player exposed by the light of MLB play.

Well...nobody likes injuries or EdE being out...who do you suggest playing at 3B while EdE is out? Hairston? Who can barely even get the ball over to 1B without a hop?

reds44
06-21-2009, 09:12 PM
No... how can THAT be?....He practically had his own fan club thread.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75335
What an awesome read.

Caveat Emperor
06-21-2009, 09:32 PM
EE is playing for Louisville tonight.

He is 0-2 with a walk.

Glad to see he's picking up right where he left off. ;)

Degenerate39
06-21-2009, 10:11 PM
EE is playing for Louisville tonight.

He is 0-2 with a walk.

Wait. If he's playing then why is he on the 60 day DL? Or since he's been on the 15 day DL so long does that mean they can bring him up whenever they want? How's that work?

REDREAD
06-21-2009, 10:26 PM
Maloney just gives up too many long balls. It's that simple. He's learned to avoid walks and he gets his share of Ks, but pitching at GABP you have to keep the ball in the stadium.

When the next opportunity comes for a starter, I'd be surprised to see Maloney get the call. He'd probably do better in a more forgiving ballpark.

Maloney is just not a Major league pitcher. That's why he didn't get much of an opportunity until now (injuries, and Homer stinking up the place).

He got his opportunity and really didn't make the most of it.

I'm sure he'll hang around the organization as AAA depth, but hopefully the team stays healthy enough and adds more depth so they never need to call him up again.

redsfandan
06-21-2009, 10:29 PM
I think this effectively ends the Gonzo saga.
For now. Come Aug. ..

What manager does your Reds have, because my Reds are coached by Dusty and that means Hairston gets 99% of the SS at-bats.
Call it wishful thinking. If they want to stress defense so much they may as well put out the better defensive option at short.

No... how can THAT be?....He practically had his own fan club thread.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75335
People actually doing a 180 on a player? Shocking.;)

Brutus
06-21-2009, 10:44 PM
Wait. If he's playing then why is he on the 60 day DL? Or since he's been on the 15 day DL so long does that mean they can bring him up whenever they want? How's that work?

You can rehab while you are on the DL. In fact, you can rehab for as many as 20 days. The 60-day DL allowed the Reds to add an additional person to the 40-man roster without having to expose someone to waivers (at least until Encarnacion is activated).

The Encarnacion 60-day transfer was about roster flexibility and had nothing to do with his injury. The Reds knew, even with his transfer, that they could rehab him along slowly and still be able to activate him before the 20-days were up, yet after he was eligible to come off the 60-day.

redsfandan
06-21-2009, 10:47 PM
Just a procedural move. Paperwork. I don't think anything is changed w/EE. Hopefully he'll still be back around the all-star break.

westofyou
06-21-2009, 11:09 PM
Well...nobody likes injuries or EdE being out...who do you suggest playing at 3B while EdE is out? Hairston? Who can barely even get the ball over to 1B without a hop?

Seriously.. Rosales is OPSing .560 or so, that speaks volumes above the weakness of Hairstons arm, in a perfect world neither gets the job, on the Reds the weak hitter grabs the pine if the prize is 3rd base.

redsfandan
06-21-2009, 11:20 PM
BAbip for Rosales:

May .288
June .115

I'm in no way suggesting that he is good enough to be a starter but just that maybe he's not quite THIS bad.

westofyou
06-21-2009, 11:43 PM
BAbip for Rosales:

May .288
June .115

I'm in no way suggesting that he is good enough to be a starter but just that maybe he's not quite THIS bad.
Could be, but he peaked 85 ab's ago after his first 40 ab's it's been obvious he has little power (2 2b's in the last month) He's been unlucky, but he's also not been good.

kaldaniels
06-21-2009, 11:47 PM
Could be, but he peaked 85 ab's ago after his first 40 ab's it's been obvious he has little power (2 2b's in the last month) He's been unlucky, but he's also not been good.

See the thread I just started about Rosales and we can discuss him in particular there if you like...but since you mentioned BABIP...in my post there I mentioned...he just doesn't hit the ball hard lately. So yeah, some luck is there I'm sure...but overall he's not making solid contact so his BABIP while low, doesn't shock me.

REDREAD
06-22-2009, 12:03 AM
See the thread I just started about Rosales and we can discuss him in particular there if you like...but since you mentioned BABIP...in my post there I mentioned...he just doesn't hit the ball hard lately. So yeah, some luck is there I'm sure...but overall he's not making solid contact so his BABIP while low, doesn't shock me.


Yep, he's making his own "bad luck" (low BABIP).

That's why BABIP needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt, IMO.

Jpup
06-22-2009, 09:28 AM
No... how can THAT be?....He practically had his own fan club thread.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75335

yeah, I wish I was proven wrong, but he turned out to be exactly what I thought he was.:(

fearofpopvol1
06-22-2009, 11:06 AM
Seriously.. Rosales is OPSing .560 or so, that speaks volumes above the weakness of Hairstons arm, in a perfect world neither gets the job, on the Reds the weak hitter grabs the pine if the prize is 3rd base.

I'm not some huge Rosales fan...but it's not like Hairston has been world's better. At least Rosales can play defense. I would take the slight offensive drop off from Rosales (and bat him 8) rather than have Hairston hit a little better and bat 2nd (with worse defense).

westofyou
06-22-2009, 07:39 PM
I'm not some huge Rosales fan...but it's not like Hairston has been world's better. At least Rosales can play defense. I would take the slight offensive drop off from Rosales (and bat him 8) rather than have Hairston hit a little better and bat 2nd (with worse defense).

When AR has a month like Hairston's May then I'll be convinced until then he's a poor mans Brandon Larson with a glove.

_Sir_Charles_
06-22-2009, 09:29 PM
EE is playing for Louisville tonight.

He is 0-2 with a walk.

Make that 1 for 3 with a walk and a 3-run Homerun. :O)

Degenerate39
06-22-2009, 09:49 PM
When is Edwin eligible to come back?

_Sir_Charles_
06-22-2009, 09:51 PM
I think he's eligible to come back right now. Just not ready to....yet.

_Sir_Charles_
06-22-2009, 09:54 PM
Nope, I forgot they switched him to the 60 day DL.


EE is eligible to come off the DL in one week, on Sat. June 27.

fearofpopvol1
06-22-2009, 10:05 PM
When AR has a month like Hairston's May then I'll be convinced until then he's a poor mans Brandon Larson with a glove.

Their on base percentages are almost identical...at a lousy .300. The only reason Hairston's numbers look better this year is he's had an usually high amount of home runs (7) thus far boosting his SLG %. I mean, it's so outrageous that Hairston's career high for HRs was in 2001 and it was 8 home runs and that was over 532 ABs. So to assume Hairston has magically morphed into a guy that's going to hit 25 jacks this season is misguided.

To reiterate my original point...Rosales is not a great player, but at least he plays good defense. Hairston isn't really good at anything.

westofyou
06-22-2009, 10:46 PM
To reiterate my original point...Rosales is not a great player, but at least he plays good defense. Hairston isn't really good at anything.

Yet Jerry will be drawing the big pension check from MLB in the future, that comes with 6 years service, and then some.... will AR make that goal?

Is that even possible?

I get that he plays better defense, but he's 26 has an odd approach and no power in a game that looks to the corners for that skill set.

I don't see a future.

fearofpopvol1
06-22-2009, 11:03 PM
Yet Jerry will be drawing the big pension check from MLB in the future, that comes with 6 years service, and then some.... will AR make that goal?

Is that even possible?

I get that he plays better defense, but he's 26 has an odd approach and no power in a game that looks to the corners for that skill set.

I don't see a future.

Speaking of no power, that's essentially Hairston.

It should be noted that Hairston played on awful teams for most of his career. So, if Rosales found his way on the roster of the Pirates or the Astros or the Nationals or some other team that's terrible, yeah. It's definitely possible. Hairston's career batting average is .259. I absolutely think that Rosales can put up .259 in the majors, especially as a part time player.

I don't think he'll ever be a starting player. He's a utility guy. Or maybe a platoon player on a bad team.

Again, I'm just saying...if the choice is Hairston at 3B batting 2nd or Rosales at 3B batting 8th, give me Rosales. At least his defense is good. The pitching can benefit from that, even if his bat can't help the team. What does the team benefit for with Hairston? I think it's less.

Rojo
06-22-2009, 11:58 PM
Yet Jerry will be drawing the big pension check from MLB in the future

So will Juan Castro.

The glove/bat debate about a position ends when one of the players falls below a certain defensive threshold. I mean nobody's going to argue that Johnny Gomes should start at short.

IMO, JHJ falls below the defensive threshold at third.

Ron Madden
06-23-2009, 02:45 AM
As long as Club Owners are bogged down with the belief in tradition above all else, guys like Jerry Narron will be hired as Managers.

Leading to players like Jaun Castro acquiring six years service time and a MLB pension check.

JMHO

Chip R
06-23-2009, 10:21 AM
I think that the promotions of Rosales, Maloney and, to a lesser extent, Bruce, shows that there may be a significant gulf between AAA and MLB. I don't think it can no longer be assumed that if a player is tearing up AAA it will translate into MLB success. Several years ago, I didn't think that there was as much of a gulf but I think it's pretty significant now.

lollipopcurve
06-23-2009, 10:38 AM
I think that the promotions of Rosales, Maloney and, to a lesser extent, Bruce, shows that there may be a significant gulf between AAA and MLB. I don't think it can no longer be assumed that if a player is tearing up AAA it will translate into MLB success. Several years ago, I didn't think that there was as much of a gulf but I think it's pretty significant now.

I don't think a generalization will work here. Look at Hanigan and Dickerson. Votto's transition was seamless, too. There's some mystery involved.

TRF
06-23-2009, 10:45 AM
I think that the promotions of Rosales, Maloney and, to a lesser extent, Bruce, shows that there may be a significant gulf between AAA and MLB. I don't think it can no longer be assumed that if a player is tearing up AAA it will translate into MLB success. Several years ago, I didn't think that there was as much of a gulf but I think it's pretty significant now.

That's comparing three very different talent levels. Many have assumed that Bruce is an uber talent, and that he'll be successful no matter what. Maloney was seen as a guy that earned his shot (I agree with that). Rosales had sick numbers at AAA, and the thought was he needs to be up and EE sent to the bench. Turns out EE was hurt and Rosales still has a bit to learn. I'd say Bruce and Maloney too, but each is in a different position.

With no protection in the lineup, pitchers can pitch to Bruce's weaknesses. For Maloney, he's had good K numbers, but MLB hitters can spot and exploit weaknesses, and he's a flyball pitcher. All of Rosales drive can't mask that he's power impaired to a degree. I think he COULD be a good gap hitter eventually, but he screams utility guy.

The Reds have hovered around .500 and it looks like Votto is back tonight, EE possibly Saturday.

That ain't too bad a position to be in.

Chip R
06-23-2009, 11:19 AM
I don't think a generalization will work here. Look at Hanigan and Dickerson. Votto's transition was seamless, too. There's some mystery involved.


The great players are going to hit on every level but one exception doesn't prove anything. As for generalizations, isn't it a generalization that just because a player tears it up in AAA, that he will be successful in MLB?

Hanigan has done well but he's been catching most every game and we're just getting into the hot months. The jury is still out on Dickerson. Like Bruce he had immediate success but he has not put up numbers even close to his minor league numbers and neither has Bruce. I have seen too many examples lately of AAA stars not performing at the MLB level to say that there isn't a great gulf between AAA and MLB.

lollipopcurve
06-23-2009, 11:27 AM
The great players are going to hit on every level but one exception doesn't prove anything. As for generalizations, isn't it a generalization that just because a player tears it up in AAA, that he will be successful in MLB?

Of course. As I said, there's some mystery involved (read: generalizations won't work).


Hanigan has done well but he's been catching most every game and we're just getting into the hot months.

He played well in 08 too. Take a look at his minor league numbers. He's performing better in the majors than he did in the minors.


The jury is still out on Dickerson. Like Bruce he had immediate success but he has not put up numbers even close to his minor league numbers and neither has Bruce.

Dickerson's major league numbers -- he's close to 300 PAs now -- are better than his minor league numbers. Convincingly so.

Can't buy the "massive gulf" explanation. There are individual factors having to do with plate approach, ability to adjust, and more, that cloud the picture.

nate
06-23-2009, 12:00 PM
Dickerson's major league numbers -- he's close to 300 PAs now -- are better than his minor league numbers. Convincingly so.

Excellent point! Very interesting; I hadn't noticed that.

bucksfan2
06-23-2009, 12:09 PM
Excellent point! Very interesting; I hadn't noticed that.

Dickerson 08 numbers were insane. I didn't realize that his 09 numbers have been brought up considerable since his horrid start. What I can't grasp is what Dusty has against Dickerson. It seems that Dickerson has everything that Dusty likes. He is a young, african american player, from the west coast, has embraced the green movement. He is everything that Dusty would call a "cool dude". In reality he is very close to a young Dusty Baker. I just don't get why Dusty keeps inserting Taveras into the lineup.

GOYA
06-23-2009, 12:22 PM
{Hanigan} played well in 08 too. Take a look at his minor league numbers. He's performing better in the majors than he did in the minors.

Dickerson's major league numbers -- he's close to 300 PAs now -- are better than his minor league numbers. Convincingly so.

Neither are better than their minor league numbers in the season they were called up. Well, Hanigan is by .001. He's hitting the same and he is very consistent. His slugging dropped just a little. Dickerson is .016 below his 2008 AAA Avg. Still, pretty close. But the difference is that Dickerson isn't consistent and his slugging has dropped quite a bit.

Like a lot of players that were hot when called up to the majors, Rosie was still hot when he first came up. Then, the bottom dropped out and the common idea is that MLB pitching is preying on a weakness. I'm not convinced that is all it is. I think it is more mental and different guys handle the MLB pressure better than others.

Can anyone say what weakness Rosie has that is being exploited?

_Sir_Charles_
06-23-2009, 02:16 PM
Can anyone say what weakness Rosie has that is being exploited?

In my eyes, it's been breaking balls. He gets so hyper up there sometimes that he's unable to stop once he starts and he doesn't make last second adjustments.

I think he's much better than he's currently showing though. He's just slumping and pressing like many position players currently. He'll snap out of it.

11larkin11
06-23-2009, 04:22 PM
Homer is going to start Saturday. Maloney is the probable pitcher tonight in Louisville, so if he were to go Saturday, it would be on three days rest. Homer will go on regular rest, IMO

_Sir_Charles_
06-23-2009, 04:27 PM
Has anyone heard how far away Edinson is? If he's close, it could be Volquez...right?

Or will they send him on a re-hab assignment as well?

In regards to Homer/Matt...I agree, it should be Homer if it comes to that. And if he excells, then I move Owings to the pen.

membengal
06-23-2009, 04:29 PM
EV is not that close. He will need rehab starts when the time comes.

GOYA
06-23-2009, 06:25 PM
Even if Volquez says he doesn't need rehab, I'd send him to Louisville. At this point, I need to be damn sure he's not going to come out 1 or 2 innings into the game and put that unnecessary strain on the pen.

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2009, 06:47 PM
3B Edwin Encarncacion, at AAA Louisville on rehab, was 1-for-2 Thursday night with a double, RBI and three walks in a 7-0 Bats win at Charlotte.

Encarnacion, out since April 28 with a chip fracture in his left wrist, is eligible to come off the 60-day DL today. That won’t happen, but Baker said he expects Encarnacion back within the next two weeks.

“I want him ready when he gets here,” Baker said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a6a421268-4b24-481b-8eba-8dc36f219491&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Two weeks? I was hoping he would be back by Tuesday.

Joseph
06-26-2009, 07:00 PM
You gotta think he'll be back before two weeks.

Ron Madden
06-27-2009, 05:00 AM
Ah, we don't miss Edwin right now, look at our offensive and defensive production from 3B.

Dusty Baker is every bit as dumb as Jerry Narron.:(

Big Klu
06-27-2009, 12:35 PM
Ah, we don't miss Edwin right now, look at our offensive and defensive production from 3B.

Dusty Baker is every bit as dumb as Jerry Narron.:(

Dusty never said that we don't miss Edwin. In fact, I'm sure that Dusty misses him a great deal. When a player has missed nearly two months, during part of which he was shut down completely, he needs to work to get his conditioning, timing, and endurance back. It's almost like going back to Spring Training (though more accelerated). I think it will be less than a full two weeks, but Encarnacion needs to play a few more days at Louisville to make sure he doesn't suffer another setback.

Degenerate39
06-27-2009, 06:31 PM
Ah, we don't miss Edwin right now, look at our offensive and defensive production from 3B.

Dusty Baker is every bit as dumb as Jerry Narron.:(

Probably but I don't think Baker would pinch hit Juan Castro for one Josh Hamilton.

Tony Cloninger
06-27-2009, 08:04 PM
How is he dumber? Yeah sure let's bring up EE so he can go 2 for 20 or something close to that....just for the sake of having him back up here.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2009, 09:31 PM
Is E.E. ready?

Might the Cincinnati Reds pull Edwin Encarnacion back from rehab with Class AAA Louisville for the upcoming six-game homestand with Arizona and St. Louis that begins Tuesday?

Manager Dusty Baker says, “Not likely,” but that’s what he said about Joey Votto coming off rehab in Dayton to play in Toronto, and Votto returned to the Reds in Toronto.

Encarnacion missed nearly two months with a cracked left wrist, but his rehab is going so well he may be calling Baker to say, “Hey, I’m ready.” It worked for Votto.

Encarnacion had two hits Saturday and two hits Sunday and his average is at .296 with a double, two homers and five RBIs for eight games

http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-reds/dickerson-works-his-way-back-in-lineup-182074.html