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View Full Version : What to do about Rosales



kaldaniels
06-22-2009, 12:36 AM
I spoke it on the game thread after Saturday nights game, after Rosales K'd to end the game, and I'll say it again.

I don't feel Adam Rosales is a major league caliber player at this point in his career. He is batting 4 for his last 46, and moreso, he just doesn't pass the "naked eye" test. I can't remember more than a few hard hit balls of his over the past month. On the contrary, I'll commend him for his glovework for the most part.

I know, the Reds don't have many better options ...but surely they can do better right now. He had a hot bat to start the year, and earned the callup...but he obviously doesn't have what it takes to stick.

Could Todd Frazier go back to playing 3B in a hurry?...if he could, I'd seriously weigh out making room on the 40 man (oh the possibilities :D) for him and bring him up to the bigs right now. Anyone have other ideas...am I the only one fed up with Rosales? Do we just have to grit our teeth and wait for the return of EE? :confused:

Hap
06-22-2009, 12:55 AM
I think ARoz should concentrate less on his antics and concentrate more on on baseball and more on the salary difference between MLB and AAA.

redsfandan
06-22-2009, 12:56 AM
Rosales is best as a utility player/spot starter. He's an example of how when a player that shouldn't be a starter is thrust into a starting role for an extended time the warts will show up after awhile. Hopefully EE will be back soon. With both EE and Voto back after the all-star break anything is possible. But those first couple weeks after the break will be very important to decide if we'll be sellers or buyers.

LincolnparkRed
06-22-2009, 01:01 AM
I know I for one dread seeing him up with men on. He seems to get too excited and almost seems to want to get himself out. He deserved the callup but not sure he has shown he really belongs up.

reds44
06-22-2009, 01:03 AM
He needs to go back to AAA when EE gets back. I don't think he's any good, but I also don't think he's THIS bad.

Reds/Flyers Fan
06-22-2009, 02:20 AM
He should be batting 9th in the order, not 8th. And he certainly should NEVER be batting 8th over Micah Owings

Degenerate39
06-22-2009, 06:00 AM
Send him down bring up Sutton

Ltlabner
06-22-2009, 07:47 AM
Seems all that crazy running did nothing to close the talent gap.

The kid is who he is. He's a talented athlete who just doesn't have enough horsepower to play in the bigs every day. He's got a big arm, but his bat and fielding skills aren't offset by it. The reality has always been this kid is proving himself to be a 25th man who is best suited for a fill-in, late inning replacement role.

Redhook
06-22-2009, 08:18 AM
I like Adam, but he's not very good.

The first time I saw him I was surprised how weak his batting stance is. He looks very similar to Denorfia at the plate. I think Denorfia's batting stance is terrible too. I'm a big proponent for good batting stances, maybe because I'm a golf instructor, and I believe Rosales will need to make some changes with his hitting to be a successful major league player.

PuffyPig
06-22-2009, 08:43 AM
I've been saying this for awhile, Rosales has played himself off this team.

Give Sutton a chance.

bucksfan2
06-22-2009, 10:11 AM
He is what he is, but he isn't. Right now Rosales isn't ready to play in the bigs for an entire season. His defense has been good and his versatility is a bonus, but he isn't ready at the plate. He needs some time to work on things at the AAA level. Just because you are hitting AAA pitching well doesn't mean it will translate to the MLB level.

Rosales highlights a problem with the Reds minor league system right now. They just don't have a corner infield bat ready at the AAA level. Frazier and Alonso are the two that are the closest but their time line looks at best to be 2010. Rosales impact been exacerbated because of both Votto and Encarnacion spending extended time on the DL. If just one had been out then Rosales wouldn't have to see the field as much as he does.

RedsFan75
06-22-2009, 10:15 AM
I agree with all the statements about Rosales, my fear, however, is that if he is eventually sent down when EE comes back that there will be an outcry for Rosales because of the Pete Rose sentiment. The same issue with Freel, etc...

TRF
06-22-2009, 10:22 AM
I agree with the he's not this bad sentiment. I also firmly believe he's not as good as that line he posted in Louisville prior to being called up. I think he COULD be an .800 OPS guy as a utility type player.

But he needs to go back to Louisville and find what he is missing there. Sutton up until EE is ready is fine by me, IF Sutton can play 3B. If BP goes on the DL as has been rumored, your infield is Votto, Sutton, Janish, Hairston. wowee is that bad.

I(heart)Freel
06-22-2009, 10:52 AM
His cup of coffee turned into a carafe.

He does need to go back down to AAA and get his confidence back. He'll be better next time up, which hopefully is September, since we'll stay healthy between now and then.

I remain surprised that Janish hasn't been given a better chance to try to utility role if Hairston becomes your AGon replacement. Better still, move Hairston to third, give Janish a shot at short for awhile (pitching and defense, right?) and call up someone who can make a difference with a late inning at-bat.

Tony Cloninger
06-22-2009, 10:56 AM
Did anyone think Ray Knight...after his 77-78 seasons as the backup INF would hit at all? His batting stance was stiff....he had no power to speak of....yet he turned out to hit better than expected.

I make the same comp just to say that it's still possible for this guy to be better than he has looked with some tweaks and some time.

kaldaniels
06-22-2009, 10:59 AM
Did anyone think Ray Knight...after his 77-78 seasons as the backup INF would hit at all? His batting stance was stiff....he had no power to speak of....yet he turned out to hit better than expected.

I make the same comp just to say that it's still possible for this guy to be better than he has looked with some tweaks and some time.

No argument from anyone here on that, of course he could make some adjustments and be sucessful. What do we do about him now?

Benihana
06-22-2009, 11:09 AM
No argument from anyone here on that, of course he could make some adjustments and be sucessful. What do we do about him now?

Send him down and give Drew Sutton a shot- it's about time.

Rosales reminds me of perhaps a lighter-hitting Mark Lewis. I'd rather have at least a Mark Lewis or a Jeff Keppinger as a utility guy. Maybe Sutton can be that? He turns 26 next week and is OPSing over .900 in Louisville. Isn't it time to find out?

TheNext44
06-22-2009, 11:21 AM
Rosales is in a big slump.

In his last 53 PA's, here's his line:

.087 .189 .087 .276

That's a really bad two weeks.

Here is Chipper Jones' line the last two weeks:

.146 .239 .195 .434

Here's Jay Bruce's line over a two week period this month:

.083 .250 .111 .361


The kid has 175 very sporadic career PA's, let's not draw any conclusions about his talent and skill level at this point.

I'd much rather use his 1846 career minor league PA's in which he has this line:

.291 .365 .494 .860

to judge him.

Just for comparison, since people love to compare him to Ryan Freel, Freel had this line in 3289 minor league PA's:

.270 .361 .397 .758


Rosales could end up being a fine major league starter, or a fine backup, or not a very good player in the long run, only time will tell. But he definitely has shown in the minors that he has the talent and skill to be a solid major league starter, so I am not going to write him off after 175 PA's.

kaldaniels
06-22-2009, 11:55 AM
Rosales is in a big slump.

In his last 53 PA's, here's his line:

.087 .189 .087 .276

That's a really bad two weeks.

Here is Chipper Jones' line the last two weeks:

.146 .239 .195 .434

Here's Jay Bruce's line over a two week period this month:

.083 .250 .111 .361


The kid has 175 very sporadic career PA's, let's not draw any conclusions about his talent and skill level at this point.

I'd much rather use his 1846 career minor league PA's in which he has this line:

.291 .365 .494 .860

to judge him.

Just for comparison, since people love to compare him to Ryan Freel, Freel had this line in 3289 minor league PA's:

.270 .361 .397 .758


Rosales could end up being a fine major league starter, or a fine backup, or not a very good player in the long run, only time will tell. But he definitely has shown in the minors that he has the talent and skill to be a solid major league starter, so I am not going to write him off after 175 PA's.

Several comps out there that make things look rosy for Adam, I realize. What do you do about the situation though?

TheNext44
06-22-2009, 12:19 PM
Several comps out there that make things look rosy for Adam, I realize. What do you do about the situation though?

Sutton... Rosales...Tomato... Tomoto

It looks like Votto will be back this week, hopefully, and EE will be back in a week or two. He will not be getting regular playing time then, so maybe send him back to AAA so he can play everyday, and bring up Sutton so the team can see what he can do. Until then, I'd keep him around.

GOYA
06-22-2009, 01:39 PM
I've recently heard that there has never been more of a gap between AAA and the majors regarding the talent level needed to succeed in the bigs. When Rosie was called up, his OPS was 1.233. Here are some other OPS's from callups: Gomes - .941, Bruce - 1.023, Hanigan - .811, Dickerson - .862, Votto - .859.

I think Rosie has the talent to do well in the bigs but he head isn't where it should be. It's just something he needs to work out and he can't do that at AAA. But you can't ignore the fact that his ABs are currently hurting the Reds. If there was someone to replace him that could do better, I'd be all for it. But there isn't. Sutton is not the answer. He's doing well at Louisville but not nearly as well as Rosales was. If Sutton was called up, most everybody here would be pounding him within 2 weeks for his bat AND his glove. He may turn out to be a decent 3rd baseman but not at the major league level right now.

Mario-Rijo
06-22-2009, 02:00 PM
He needs a little work on his selectivity and discipline also could use a little help in the bat control area. Other than that he is UT type material. But I think you send him down and see what you have in Sutton, certainly can't hurt any.

WVRedsFan
06-22-2009, 03:36 PM
Adam, like many have said, needs to go back to AAA.

pedro
06-22-2009, 03:47 PM
Rosales has less pop in his bat than Juan Castro.

Next.

UKFlounder
06-22-2009, 04:42 PM
Sutton... Rosales...Tomato... Tomoto


But maybe the "tomoto" might be a bit more ripe?

I agree - let someone else have a shot.

Chip R
06-23-2009, 03:03 PM
I agree with all the statements about Rosales, my fear, however, is that if he is eventually sent down when EE comes back that there will be an outcry for Rosales because of the Pete Rose sentiment. The same issue with Freel, etc...


That's a popular sentiment but it really doesn't hold much water. Oh, sure, you're going to get the dad from Milford calling into Lance's show or Extra Innings or Sports Talk complaining about the Reds sending Rosales down cause he signed a ball for his kid but for the most part, local Reds fans value production over scrappiness. There wasn't much of an outcry when Freel was traded or when Stynes was let go or traded. That's because they didn't produce. Sure, Reds fans love Pete Rose but Pete produced.

RedsFan75
06-23-2009, 04:21 PM
Good point Chip but it does seem that when you get a player that hustles a lot, like a Stynes, Freel, Rosales type that there's a LOT of hype around them, and I did hear a few, albeit minor complaints from some of the folks around me, about Freel being traded, but they were short lived.

Personally I like Rosales and would like to see him do well, but not because of the Charlie Hustle comparisons. I was never a 'big' Pete fan. My fav's were Bench, Foster and Griffey more than Rose, so I'm not sure what it is that draws me toward him, but I do wish him well.

Chip R
06-23-2009, 04:36 PM
Good point Chip but it does seem that when you get a player that hustles a lot, like a Stynes, Freel, Rosales type that there's a LOT of hype around them, and I did hear a few, albeit minor complaints from some of the folks around me, about Freel being traded, but they were short lived.


Sure there is because they are looking for the next Pete Rose. But when push comes to shove, the production of the player is going to be the determining factor. Rosales is a perfect example. Go back and look at the initial Rosales thread. Chuck Norris didn't get that much praise/hype. Now it's "send him back to AAA" and "I can't wait till EE gets back." It may take longer for folks to sour on a scrappy player but if he doesn't produce, they won't care if he's traded for a bag of balls.

TRF
06-23-2009, 04:45 PM
I've said this before.

The day Reds fans let go of the ghost of Pete Rose and embrace the ghost of Barry Larkin will be a very good day.

Not that I am in a hurry for Barry to be a ghost. just sayin'