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View Full Version : What is wrong with Shaun Cumberland?



Kingspoint
06-23-2009, 06:52 PM
There could be a million reasons why what's going on is going on. Any ideas out there?

This isn't an April/May slump anymore.

Last year was a Mid-Season All-Star Centerfielder for Chattanooga in the Southern League where he batted .295/.381/.455/.836 in 300+ Plate Appearances. He was promoted to Louisville, and started off well there if I remember correctly before finishing .274/.320/.381/.701.

OBTAINED: Acquired by Reds from Tampa Bay along with IF Jorge Cantu in exchange for RHP Calvin Medlock and LHP Brian Shackelford on 7/28/07.

In 2007 with Chattanooga he hit .301/.355/.407/.762.


This year he's having a Taveras-esque season so far: .202/.295/.281/.576.

He turns 25 August 1st, but this dramatic decline is disturbing.

camisadelgolf
06-23-2009, 07:32 PM
It's a very good question. If he ever got a call-up, he was never considered to be more than a reserve outfielder, but he has regressed quite significantly after having a solid 2009. One thing that's nice to see is that his patience at the plate has improved, but I'm worried it's at the expense of not swinging at quality pitches.

reds44
06-23-2009, 07:34 PM
I think he has a case of not being any good.

camisadelgolf
06-23-2009, 07:36 PM
I think he has a case of not being any good.
I won't argue with you on that, but I think you could argue that he's mediocre as opposed to horrible. I expect him to hit a hot streak soon, and if he doesn't, it may be time to give someone else a chance.

Scrap Irony
06-23-2009, 08:08 PM
He's not bad. He has all the tools and it's ridiculous to assert quality without having seen him play.

Having said that...

Some guys get in a funk after learning the pecking order of prospect-dom. Cumberland, by all accounts, beat AA down last season and moved up. I would imagine he got some love from Red minor league guys.

But, in the off-season, Taveras is signed, not to mention McDonald, Gomes, Hopper gets re-signed, Dorn gets moved up, and Stubbs is further hyped. Cumberland is then sent down to AA, a league he was an All Star in the year before and didn't need to be in again.

He sees that Cincinnati might not have a spot for him after all. He also sees, I assume, other teams don't have a need for him either, as I'm pretty certain the Reds tried to deal him, a la other guys.

I think it's the same thing (to a lesser degree) that happened to Dorn early this year.

Kingspoint
06-23-2009, 08:27 PM
He's not bad. He has all the tools and it's ridiculous to assert quality without having seen him play.

Having said that...

Some guys get in a funk after learning the pecking order of prospect-dom. Cumberland, by all accounts, beat AA down last season and moved up. I would imagine he got some love from Red minor league guys.

But, in the off-season, Taveras is signed, not to mention McDonald, Gomes, Hopper gets re-signed, Dorn gets moved up, and Stubbs is further hyped. Cumberland is then sent down to AA, a league he was an All Star in the year before and didn't need to be in again.

He sees that Cincinnati might not have a spot for him after all. He also sees, I assume, other teams don't have a need for him either, as I'm pretty certain the Reds tried to deal him, a la other guys.

I think it's the same thing (to a lesser degree) that happened to Dorn early this year.

That's my thoughts, but I didn't want to assume that without hearing it from someone else first. Of course, you try to trade a guy before you demote him as a demotion lessens his trade value as he has nothing to gain and everything to lose once he's sent down. Now his trade value is in the toilet.

The Taveras signing has really screwed this organization. There's a reason Colorado rejected Taveras without even a hint of them wanting to keep him around. His .300 OPB had to be considered to be the norm with him, and not the exception as they gave him all year last year to change, and he didn't. Now we're stuck with him, Dickerson isn't getting the at-bats against left-handed hitters that he should have been getting this season so he could improve against them, and he's also not getting the at-bats against right-handed hitters that he should be getting, as Taveras and others are taking many of those away, too. Cumberland, who was on track to become help either on the bench or possibly more for the REDS in 2010, is now off the radar completely. Stubbs, who would have been able to be a September call-up with regular playing time in September is now going to get fewer at-bats at the Major League level this season, and possibly none.

Walt, fire The Crusty Baker, please, and DFA Taveras. Admit your mistake and move on.

johngalt
06-23-2009, 08:57 PM
Yet another thread morphs into "Taveras sucks, get him out of here."

Kingspoint
06-23-2009, 09:04 PM
Yet another thread morphs into "Taveras sucks, get him out of here."

Exploding Volcanoes are hard to ignore.

redsof72
06-23-2009, 09:47 PM
Good post by Scrap Irony. It is easy to overlook the human element of any player. Cumberland is a good ball player, but the Reds did not see him as a Triple-A player and with the overload of outfielders in Triple-A, he got sent back and you can bet he was a mixture of furious, demoralized, and confused. You can bet that when Cumberland saw he was not only going back to Double-A, but that he was not going to be a starter, all he wanted was to get out of the Reds organization. The at-bats were few and far between and he lost his timing, started pressing, then started trying to change things because what he was doing either wasn't working or didn't seem to be what the Reds wanted, and before you knew it, the bottom had fallen out. It happens every year to someone in every organization.

One of the things you have to consider, that is often not understood, is this: There is a reason teams pay guys like Kevin Barker and Adam Pettyjohn $15,000 a month in Triple-A. The player who gets stuck in Double-A behind those guys doesn't like it. The fans who follow the prospects don't like it. The owner of the Triple-A team who is negotiating the next PDC likes it. And so does the Farm Director. He just doesn't want too many Kevin Barkers, and he wants to make sure he doesn't confuse the Cumberlands with the Adam Rosales.

Mario-Rijo
06-23-2009, 10:38 PM
He's not bad. He has all the tools and it's ridiculous to assert quality without having seen him play.

Having said that...

Some guys get in a funk after learning the pecking order of prospect-dom. Cumberland, by all accounts, beat AA down last season and moved up. I would imagine he got some love from Red minor league guys.

But, in the off-season, Taveras is signed, not to mention McDonald, Gomes, Hopper gets re-signed, Dorn gets moved up, and Stubbs is further hyped. Cumberland is then sent down to AA, a league he was an All Star in the year before and didn't need to be in again.

He sees that Cincinnati might not have a spot for him after all. He also sees, I assume, other teams don't have a need for him either, as I'm pretty certain the Reds tried to deal him, a la other guys.

I think it's the same thing (to a lesser degree) that happened to Dorn early this year.

Even worse I believe he was eligible to be taken in the rule 5 draft and left unprotected and still no one bit. Had to be a tough past year or so for him.

Tony Cloninger
06-23-2009, 11:19 PM
Reminds me of Motorboat Jones....Cleveland Ladell......Jamie Dismuke...guys who have good seasons but seem to stall just before almost nearing the top level...or get tossed aside.