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BLEEDS
06-24-2009, 02:01 AM
Id say right now were buyers, he said. Were looking for a hitter. If we did something, it would probably be to bring in a hitter. Getting Joey (Votto) back is going to help.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3ad1749c76-2595-44c9-8714-90a60b96871f&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Sounds like media speak to me.
Like he's going to say "yeah, we're sellers, and I AM looking to trade Arroyo".

Also, seems like we were in this same position in the off-season, looking for a hitter. We got Wily Tavares to suck it up on the leadoff spot.

I think the best we can hope for at this point is addition by subtraction - see Lincoln, Mike and Gonzalez, Alex - and for the return of EE and Votto both at full strength.

We would definitely be in the trading of Arroyo department if we could get a SS or LF type prospect or proven veteran/big contract.

Where there is smoke there is fire with this one methinks.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ghosts of 1990
06-24-2009, 02:36 AM
If you could get Magglio Ordonez or Andruw Jones for Bronson Arroyo would you do it? That might be best case scenario what we're looking at.

Slyder
06-24-2009, 02:50 AM
Andruw Jones who has played all of 16 games in the field this year? No chance.

Magglio for Bronson maybe. Both men have their warts, Magglio only has 2 HRs this year, is that age or just a power slump? He's played less than 40 games in RF this year...

I wish the Reds would stick with Dickerson in CF and see what we've got. Tavares is a known quantity at this point in his career he isn't going to produce much above replacement if that. Lets see what we have in Dickerson and even dare I say it on RZ who have already declare this guy a BUST before even reaching the majors??? Let's give Stubbs a chance *Ducks behind a table expecting rotten tomotoes tossed his way*

TheBigLebowski
06-24-2009, 08:39 AM
TheBigLebowski: "Right now, we're awful."

GIDP
06-24-2009, 10:53 AM
buyers, I wonder if they called this offseason "buying" also.

TheBigLebowski
06-24-2009, 11:16 AM
buyers, I wonder if they called this offseason "buying" also.

We bought Willy Tavares.:beerme:

Red in Atl
06-24-2009, 11:20 AM
After last nights game, it's obvious that Taveras is the 5th outfielder on this team. Here is the lineup that I would like to see playing everyday:

Dickerson CF
Phillips 2nd
Votto 1st
Nix/Gomes LF
EE 3rd
Bruce RF
Hernandez/Hanigan C
Hairston SS

When Bruce matures and starts hitting, he should swap with the Nix/Gomes platoon. I'd love to get Scutaro to play short till Chris V. is ready. Put Scutaro at leadoff and Dickerson goes to 7th. As long as EE is hurt, Rosales plays third, hits 8th and everyone before moves up.

GIDP
06-24-2009, 12:03 PM
We bought Willy Tavares.:beerme:

Maybe we can trade for Julio Lugo or David Eckstein to fill in for Alex Gonzalez.

BLEEDS
06-24-2009, 03:12 PM
I wish the Reds would stick with Dickerson in CF and see what we've got. Tavares is a known quantity at this point in his career he isn't going to produce much above replacement if that. Lets see what we have in Dickerson and even dare I say it on RZ who have already declare this guy a BUST before even reaching the majors??? Let's give Stubbs a chance *Ducks behind a table expecting rotten tomotoes tossed his way*


After last nights game, it's obvious that Taveras is the 5th outfielder on this team. Here is the lineup that I would like to see playing everyday:

Dickerson CF
Phillips 2nd
Votto 1st
Nix/Gomes LF
EE 3rd
Bruce RF
Hernandez/Hanigan C
Hairston SS

When Bruce matures and starts hitting, he should swap with the Nix/Gomes platoon. I'd love to get Scutaro to play short till Chris V. is ready. Put Scutaro at leadoff and Dickerson goes to 7th. As long as EE is hurt, Rosales plays third, hits 8th and everyone before moves up.

I said before the year the signing of Willy T was a death sentence for our offense.
CF/SS bat 1/2 dude. Ridiculous.

Dickerson surely could man that position better - he's better defensively, and even IFF Taveras was batting .320, his OBP would be .325, and Dickerson is in the .350+ range.
Absolutely NO reason he shouldn't have been the stop-gap CF-er.

Stubbs actually looks to be consistently getting on base and stealing bases in AAA. Perhaps something just clicked, he matured, whatever, but he looks to be ready for a September callup at least, and if he can continue to get OB at 350/360+, he should be starting in CF next year IMO.

Stubbs
Dickerson
Votto
BP
EE
Bruce
C
SS

that would be a decent lineup. Approximately 1,472,369% better than any lineup featuring Tavares and SS du jour hitting 1-2 currently.

Replace Dickerson with a true everyday Power LF bat, and then you have some genuine problems with whom to bat 2nd.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

bounty37h
06-24-2009, 03:19 PM
The reporter heard him wrong, his quote was "right now I'd say we are B.S.'ers"

berryluther
06-24-2009, 03:47 PM
There is a big difference in being a "Buyer" or a good shopper. For instance signing Willy Taveras was like buying a gallon of milk the day before it expires. Not good shopping.

Lockdwn11
06-24-2009, 04:03 PM
There is a big difference in being a "Buyer" or a good shopper. For instance signing Willy Taveras was like buying a gallon of milk the day before it expires. Not good shopping.


No it's more like buying a gallon of milk a day after it expires. You knew it wasn't any good when you got it.

Jefferson24
06-24-2009, 04:10 PM
I have a difficult time believing that this team would seriously go out and buy enough talent to make this team contend for the lead in the central. I believe that the Reds are more than just a average player or two away. Changing an air filter and fan belt on the Escort wont allow it to compete with the Mustang.

RedLegsToday
06-24-2009, 04:14 PM
thank you berry luther and Lockdwn11 for my new signature. :)

jmac
06-24-2009, 08:57 PM
Id say right now were buyers, he said. Were looking for a hitter. If we did something, it would probably be to bring in a hitter. Getting Joey (Votto) back is going to help.



First: Key words are "right now". I imagine a bad roadtrip may change that perspective.


Second: We looked for a hitter in offseason and for some reason ( Bob C ?) , we didnt get or sign one. I have a feeling that ship has sailed.

Kingspoint
06-24-2009, 08:59 PM
EE wasn't supposed to be injured the whole season.

We could have afforded an injury to one of our left-handed hitters for the whole season, but not to Phillips or EE.

BLEEDS
06-24-2009, 10:20 PM
EE wasn't supposed to be injured the whole season.

We could have afforded an injury to one of our left-handed hitters for the whole season, but not to Phillips or EE.

?
We are lefthanded poor.

I'd rather lose BP or EE than Votto. Bruce is the only other LH threat we had, and he has been barely more than worthless.

We can't hit RHP very well at all.
BP is about worthless vs RHP historically, although doing a bit better this year so far.
JHJ can't hit RHP.
Gomes can't hit RHP.
Tavares can't hit anybody.

EE is a huge loss though, we needed him to have a solid, improving year, and he hasn't been a factor at all.

Still, given losing RH batters versus LH batters, I'd give up the former instead of the latter.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

texasdave
06-25-2009, 09:01 AM
Jocketty: "We're buyers....of crap", alluding to the Taveras signing.

Kingspoint
06-25-2009, 08:03 PM
?
We are lefthanded poor.


We can't hit RHP very well at all.
BP is about worthless vs RHP historically, although doing a bit better this year so far.
JHJ can't hit RHP.
Gomes can't hit RHP.
Tavares can't hit anybody.



Our best hitters (OPS), not counting Votto and EE, who have been injured are in this order:


RH,
RH,
LH,
LH,
LH,

The 2nd RH'd player is a part-time player (Hanigan), who's only appeared in 2/3'rd's of the games this season.

Without EE, we've only got 1-1/2 RH players who hit well, while without Votto, we still have 3 LH players who hit well. It's the RH bat that we couldn't afford to lose.

FWIW, the players after that have OPS' of .543, .559, .565, .661, & .702, where the worst of those Top-5 are at .762.

Losing one of the "BIG" RH bats was not affordable, where losing one of the "BIG" LH bats would have been affordable.

Ohioballplayer
06-26-2009, 01:06 PM
Why arent we trying to sign Mark Derosa, the Cards are looking at him, we should be also especially in GASP

xavr1
06-26-2009, 01:08 PM
Interesting piece from Jayson Stark (ESPN):

Central casting: A scout who has covered the NL Central says that of the teams in contention in that division, the Reds have by far the most prospects to deal.

Beyond Josh Vitters, the Cubs "don't have one young player I've seen where I say, 'We've got to have that guy,'" the scout said. Aside from the spectacular Alcides Escobar, the Brewers have "nothing to get excited about," he said. Ditto with the Cardinals once you get past third baseman Brett Wallace. And "Houston's system is not real good," he said, flatly.

But the Reds have a bunch of legit prospects, from pitchers Homer Bailey and Matt Maloney to impact bats like Drew Stubbs, Todd Frazier and Juan Francisco. So this is a team with the ammunition to make a move, and more than enough pitching to hang in this race, assuming Edinson Volquez comes back.

Jones1
06-26-2009, 01:40 PM
assuming Edinson Volquez comes back!

BLEEDS
06-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Our best hitters (OPS), not counting Votto and EE, who have been injured are in this order:


RH,
RH,
LH,
LH,
LH,

The 2nd RH'd player is a part-time player (Hanigan), who's only appeared in 2/3'rd's of the games this season.

Without EE, we've only got 1-1/2 RH players who hit well, while without Votto, we still have 3 LH players who hit well. It's the RH bat that we couldn't afford to lose.

FWIW, the players after that have OPS' of .543, .559, .565, .661, & .702, where the worst of those Top-5 are at .762.

Losing one of the "BIG" RH bats was not affordable, where losing one of the "BIG" LH bats would have been affordable.

Don't suppose you left out the names and AB's for any particular reason?

Nix and Dickerson are both platoon players, although I'd give Dickerson ALL the AB's in CF over Taveras, but that ain't happening. All 3 of those guys (Nix, Dickerson, Gomes) are sharing ONE OF spot, LF.

BP has the best OPS on the team, by default, but as I said his numbers against RHP are historically pathetic. He can't hit RHP, but he MURDERS LHP.

If your argument is that Jay Bruce is currently our 5th best OPS guy on our team, that should tell you everything you need to know.
Our "Leader" in OPS is .816 due in part to a .900+ OPS vs. LHP. Again, another telling stat.

Our only REAL "BIG" bats were Votto and Bruce, both LeftHanded, and EE.
Votto's been injured, ditto for EE, Bruce has struggled, Offense stinks.
End of Discussion.

The rest of our offense is lead by platoon players (Gomes, Nix, Dickerson), veteran scrap heap sucks (JHJ, Taveras) and a part time rookie catcher (Hanigan). Our best offensive position upgrade is Hernandez who is OPSing .665 currently.
Round it out with no-stick rookies (Rosales, Janish, Richar) and a pitcher who is actually 2nd on the team in OPS outside of Votto.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Kingspoint
06-26-2009, 07:39 PM
Bottomline is we can't afford to lose any of our better offensive bats, especially when Crusty is willing to sit our best Offensive weapon right now, Hanigan, forever.

DTCromer
06-26-2009, 07:44 PM
I don't mind trading some of our prospects as long as we're not renting players for 2 months.

With that said, Walt won't trade prospects for 2-3 month rentals.

Ghosts of 1990
06-26-2009, 08:17 PM
Maybe we are buyers! We picked up Corky Miller today (RH Bat) for Norris Hopper! I kid, but we really did make a move. Ridiculous.

Jack Burton
06-26-2009, 09:29 PM
Best thing Walt could do this season would be to get rid of dusty and the rest of the staff. At least it would give us hope for the seasons to come, w/ dusto at the helm this team is crippled.

Jefferson24
06-26-2009, 09:32 PM
Maybe we are buyers! We picked up Corky Miller today (RH Bat) for Norris Hopper! I kid, but we really did make a move. Ridiculous.

The whistle just blew and the lifeguard just ordered the Reds back to the kiddie pool.

Ghosts of 1990
06-27-2009, 06:50 AM
Interesting piece from Jayson Stark (ESPN):

Central casting: A scout who has covered the NL Central says that of the teams in contention in that division, the Reds have by far the most prospects to deal.

Beyond Josh Vitters, the Cubs "don't have one young player I've seen where I say, 'We've got to have that guy,'" the scout said. Aside from the spectacular Alcides Escobar, the Brewers have "nothing to get excited about," he said. Ditto with the Cardinals once you get past third baseman Brett Wallace. And "Houston's system is not real good," he said, flatly.

But the Reds have a bunch of legit prospects, from pitchers Homer Bailey and Matt Maloney to impact bats like Drew Stubbs, Todd Frazier and Juan Francisco. So this is a team with the ammunition to make a move, and more than enough pitching to hang in this race, assuming Edinson Volquez comes back.

Jake Fox of the Cubs is 26 years old but really hitting the ball well and is "young" in terms of MLB service time. Cubs aren't playing him every day. He is a big RH bat who hits for power and plays 3B, LF, and can catch. He will have a really serviceable MLB career and hit for some good power. I wish the Reds could make a move for him.

Wallyposter
07-13-2009, 09:45 AM
With the injury to Jay Bruce and the need to add a bat, an inexpensive option would be the Cubs' Jake Fox. He certainly is not the defender that Bruce is, but he has done nothing but hit and has some pop in his bat. He has been playing 3B, but with Ramirez back, he is a man without a position, he plays some outfield and can still catch. He's an option for those who want an offensive upgrade, but do not want to give up the farm.

CySeymour
07-13-2009, 10:26 AM
I am still of the opinion this team needs to look to not only just being competitive next year, but going with a playoffs or bust mentality for 2010. And I would definately find a good trade package for Harang. I love Aaron, but next year is he contract year, and if you could get a major league ready ss for him, then I think you have to do it. No veteran player on this team should be considered untouchable.

BluegrassRedleg
07-13-2009, 02:25 PM
With the injury to Jay Bruce and the need to add a bat, an inexpensive option would be the Cubs' Jake Fox. He certainly is not the defender that Bruce is, but he has done nothing but hit and has some pop in his bat. He has been playing 3B, but with Ramirez back, he is a man without a position, he plays some outfield and can still catch. He's an option for those who want an offensive upgrade, but do not want to give up the farm.

Nothing against Fox, but why would the Reds or Cubs want to make a deal here that may help the other team significantly?

Fon Duc Tow
07-13-2009, 03:55 PM
Jocketty: "We're buyers."

Reds Fan Base: "So are we. And when August rolls around, and you have bought nothing, and the stadium is empty except for the few hardcore fans that want to watch the Louisville Bats in Reds uniforms, then we will both be liars won't we...

NastyBoy
07-13-2009, 05:13 PM
I think Walt will be entertaining offers from the heart broken losers in the Roy Halladay sweepstakes. Harang for the right handed hitter we need? Or maybe Harang for a decent player and some top prospect to free up salary for the off season to sign the big right bat.

Kingspoint
07-13-2009, 07:20 PM
"We're by-standers."

GIDP
07-13-2009, 07:36 PM
What is there to even buy?

Kingspoint
07-13-2009, 10:07 PM
If they want to buy something, buy out Willy Taveras' and Jerry Hairston's contracts, and DFA them.

Then recall Drew Sutton, and trade one of our relief pitchers for another outfielder and leave Stubbs and Heisey in AAA. We don't need 12 or 13 pitchers. Give me the bats. This team struggles scoring. Take the best 11 pitchers and go with them.

Addition by subtraction would make this team much, much better.

Remove Dusty's options.

Plus Plus
07-13-2009, 10:19 PM
However sad that it may be, I think that the only way to remove Dusty's options may be by removing Dusty.

BEETTLEBUG
07-13-2009, 11:55 PM
I agree with you Plus Plus

texasdave
07-14-2009, 10:09 AM
Hey, Walt, I have this bridge I am trying to unload...cheap.

Wallyposter
07-14-2009, 11:58 PM
Bluegrass, the Cubs once selected Josh Hamilton for us. Anyway, Jake Fox seems to be considered a fill-in player by the Cubs, so we might be able to swing a deal. It's not like trying to keep a super star from a divisional rival.

bleedsred
07-16-2009, 01:00 AM
Walt was talking about the playoff tix he and BobC were going to buy....

Captain Hook
07-16-2009, 02:49 AM
If they want to buy something, buy out Willy Taveras' and Jerry Hairston's contracts, and DFA them.

Then recall Drew Sutton, and trade one of our relief pitchers for another outfielder and leave Stubbs and Heisey in AAA. We don't need 12 or 13 pitchers. Give me the bats. This team struggles scoring. Take the best 11 pitchers and go with them.

Addition by subtraction would make this team much, much better.

Remove Dusty's options.

We are so beaten down by Bakers poor coaching that we have given up on the idea of just firing him and resorted to suggesting that he coaches with one hand tied behind his back.As sad as it is I agree.We are a dysfunctional team that needs a new approach.Defense,pitching and speed was a good idea.The problem is that we got Tavares who can't play defense,can't get on base and can't steel when he does get on base.He was the main FA signing this past off season and is penciled is every night leading off.Taveras is the focal point of our new and failing strategy.No one wants to step up and say "my bad, lets fix this".Its that simple.Jocketty doesn't have to allow this to go on and its getting to the point that it is just as much his fault that Willy plays every night.Someone, anyone please do something.

BSUFB
07-16-2009, 07:31 AM
I still think Tavares is the key to this lineup. When he is going good and actually getting on base on stealing bags this team is playing very good baseball. Unfortunatly it just doesn't happen very often.

texasdave
07-16-2009, 08:17 AM
I still think Tavares is the key to this lineup. When he is going good and actually getting on base on stealing bags this team is playing very good baseball. Unfortunatly it just doesn't happen very often.

You are right. Taveras is the key to this lineup - getting him out of it that is. Look at these statistics from his last 40 games.


BA .188
OBP .212
SLG .212
OPS .424

If I lived in New England I would probably call that wicked bad. And it is even worse than that. It is almost as if the Reds have a pitcher in the leadoff spot. He does not excel with the glove and, even if he did, there is no amount of defense in the world that he can play to make up for numbers like that. None.

And yet he continues to be sent out there to the lead things off for the Reds.

That is incredible managing. Incredibly poor.

I know Dusty loves that new-wave stat - ISPP (In scoring position percentage). Well it's not working, Dusty. Not for WT it isn't. In those 173 PA he has 4 doubles and 7 steals. That is 11 times Taveras has put himself in scoring position, or roughly once every four games. That just doesn't cut it. Even if he scored every time in those situations that is going to lead to about 40 runs scored in a season. From your leadoff man. You aren't gonna jumpstart many rallies like that.

Time for a change.

will5979
07-16-2009, 08:28 AM
Bluegrass, the Cubs once selected Josh Hamilton for us. Anyway, Jake Fox seems to be considered a fill-in player by the Cubs, so we might be able to swing a deal. It's not like trying to keep a super star from a divisional rival.

Ugh, don't remind me that we once had Hamilton. I get sick just thinking about how this year could have been different with him in the OF.

Plus Plus
07-16-2009, 11:23 AM
I get sick just thinking about how this year could have been exactly the same with him on the DL.

Fixed that for you.

Fon Duc Tow
07-16-2009, 01:12 PM
Fixed that for you.

Exactly.

Hamilton would do us just as much good right now as Volquez is.

Back then we had a surplus of OFs and needed pitching. Now it is the other way around.

You can't have it both ways with this payroll.

Stormy Weathers
07-16-2009, 05:24 PM
Ugh, don't remind me that we once had Hamilton. I get sick just thinking about how this year could have been different with him in the OF.

id always take volquez over hamilton.

Knightro28
07-16-2009, 05:30 PM
Cubs just signed BJ Ryan to a minor league deal.

Kingspoint
07-16-2009, 07:24 PM
We are so beaten down by Bakers poor coaching that we have given up on the idea of just firing him and resorted to suggesting that he coaches with one hand tied behind his back.As sad as it is I agree.We are a dysfunctional team that needs a new approach.Defense,pitching and speed was a good idea.The problem is that we got Tavares who can't play defense,can't get on base and can't steel when he does get on base.He was the main FA signing this past off season and is penciled is every night leading off.Taveras is the focal point of our new and failing strategy.No one wants to step up and say "my bad, lets fix this".Its that simple.Jocketty doesn't have to allow this to go on and its getting to the point that it is just as much his fault that Willy plays every night.Someone, anyone please do something.

EE's OPS'ing .900 since his return. All of us who support EE and understand that he's a 2nd-half player as supported by his stats and that he's at worst an .800 OPS player are not surprised by this. It was expected.

Where does he bat tonight? 8th.

If Dusty had Pujols, he'd bat him 8th. Bad example, but you know what I mean. OK...If Dusty had Gordon Beckham and Beckham was playing 3rd Base, he'd bat him 8th.

Kingspoint
07-16-2009, 07:25 PM
Ugh, don't remind me that we once had Hamilton. I get sick just thinking about how this year could have been different with him in the OF.

But, Hamilton doesn't steal bases. Dusty still would have had Castellini get him Taveras so Taveras could lead off and play Center.

Captain Hook
07-16-2009, 08:29 PM
But, Hamilton doesn't steal bases. Dusty still would have had Castellini get him Taveras so Taveras could lead off and play Center.

I allways felt the trade was a good move.After reading this and thinking about it for just a minute I have changed my mind.If that move isn't made then we have Hamilton in CF and would have never signed Taveras.That alone makes it a bad trade.

Kingspoint
07-16-2009, 08:32 PM
I allways felt the trade was a good move.After reading this and thinking about it for just a minute I have changed my mind.If that move isn't made then we have Hamilton in CF and would have never signed Taveras.That alone makes it a bad trade.

You really think that Dusty wouldn't play Hamilton in Right or Left and demand from Castellini that he have a base-stealer play Centerfield and hit leadoff?

Moneyman
07-16-2009, 08:34 PM
Reds should be buyers they defintley have a chance at being in the playoffs.