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View Full Version : Maybe its time to change the Manager!! Let Rick Sweet manage the Young guys!!



redsfan4445
06-25-2009, 05:06 PM
Heck after rolling my eyes seeing Taveras AGAIN leading off to make 4 outs!! AND seeing Hanaigan who is hitting .300 sitting the bench again, (he could DH and Gomes in LF!!), I think its time for a manager change.. heck they wont fire the dang hitting coach. and with how young players seem to respond to the Bats manager in Louisville, Why not give him a shot???? he might be better suited for this team as Dusty could care less how many outs a VET makes (zero walks in a month for a leadoff hitter too Taveras). I have lost faith in dusty.. He will keep running the same out maker at the top of the order and by July 31st, Walt can say "well we wanted to be buyers, but the club isnt doing well, so now we are sellers". maybe Fans by 2012 we will be ready.. blah blah blah"

traderumor
06-25-2009, 05:09 PM
Dave Miley, part deux? No thanks.

RANDY IN INDY
06-25-2009, 07:18 PM
Agree

westofyou
06-25-2009, 07:20 PM
5 managers in the last 8 years... maybe it's the players?

Unassisted
06-25-2009, 07:24 PM
Dusty gets his millions from the Reds whether he's sitting on the bench managing games or sitting at the desk in ESPN's studio discussing them on BBTN. Thanks to those millions, the $$$ paid to his replacement won't be comparable until 2011, so I'd rather see him on the bench than a replacement who's paid and worth a salary in the low six-figures.

Highlifeman21
06-25-2009, 09:32 PM
5 managers in the last 8 years... maybe it's the players?

IMO, combination between lack of talent, and GMs that couldn't acquire better talent.

Reds4Life
06-25-2009, 10:02 PM
I don't like Dusty, but it's not his fault Jocketty failed to trade for a bat in the offseason. Everyone knew this team was going to have trouble scoring runs, and the front office did nothing.

redsmetz
06-25-2009, 10:09 PM
Heck after rolling my eyes seeing Taveras AGAIN leading off to make 4 outs!! AND seeing Hanaigan who is hitting .300 sitting the bench again, (he could DH and Gomes in LF!!), I think its time for a manager change.. heck they wont fire the dang hitting coach. and with how young players seem to respond to the Bats manager in Louisville, Why not give him a shot???? he might be better suited for this team as Dusty could care less how many outs a VET makes (zero walks in a month for a leadoff hitter too Taveras). I have lost faith in dusty.. He will keep running the same out maker at the top of the order and by July 31st, Walt can say "well we wanted to be buyers, but the club isnt doing well, so now we are sellers". maybe Fans by 2012 we will be ready.. blah blah blah"

Well he only had half as many outs as you predicted tonight and a very nice squeeze play, a few good catches. Willy lives another day. And Joey Votto back in there, should be making everyone feel better. I'm liking Dusty, frankly, not a popular position around here. He's not perfect, but I like him anyway.

RedsMan3203
06-26-2009, 08:32 AM
Well he only had half as many outs as you predicted tonight and a very nice squeeze play, a few good catches. Willy lives another day. And Joey Votto back in there, should be making everyone feel better. I'm liking Dusty, frankly, not a popular position around here. He's not perfect, but I like him anyway.

Sometimes I scream at the at the TV "What the heck you thinking Dusty Baker!"

But, overall I think he has handled everything great here in Cincinnati other then a few times here and there but nothing major.

BTW - Great idea for Hannigan to be in there batting lead off... Willy T was brought here to do something and we'll he is in a slump...

If you want him on the bench, you should add Jay Bruce there also.

redsfandan
06-26-2009, 09:39 AM
Heck after rolling my eyes seeing Taveras AGAIN leading off to make 4 outs!! AND seeing Hanaigan who is hitting .300 sitting the bench again, (he could DH and Gomes in LF!!), I think its time for a manager change.. heck they wont fire the dang hitting coach. and with how young players seem to respond to the Bats manager in Louisville, Why not give him a shot???? he might be better suited for this team as Dusty could care less how many outs a VET makes (zero walks in a month for a leadoff hitter too Taveras). I have lost faith in dusty.. He will keep running the same out maker at the top of the order and by July 31st, Walt can say "well we wanted to be buyers, but the club isnt doing well, so now we are sellers". maybe Fans by 2012 we will be ready.. blah blah blah"
Taveras was finally out of the lineup and then put back in and he produced for once. Imo, Dusty gets a pass for now on Taveras (keeping him in the lineup for so long is another story). I'd love to see Hanigan keep seeing abs but Hernandez catches Cueto and Gomes murders lefties.

Dave Miley, part deux? No thanks.

Agree
Miley may not have been the greatest either but I would've kept him for, at least, a little longer. He was the Reds manager for only one full season and parts of two others. Check to see how many managers, general managers, and field directors this organization has had since the BRM days in the 70's. I'd kinda like a little stability for a change. To me this thread prompts the argument 'how much does the manager really matter'.

5 managers in the last 8 years... maybe it's the players?Ditto, granted if you run through that many managers in 8 years (nevermind the past 30) you can't really say they've had a long leash. Imo, the job of GM is more important cuz he gives the manager the players to work with.

dougdirt
06-26-2009, 10:19 AM
I don't like Dusty, but it's not his fault Jocketty failed to trade for a bat in the offseason. Everyone knew this team was going to have trouble scoring runs, and the front office did nothing.

Well that depends if you are of the belief that Dusty had to do with Taveras coming in or not, taking up some cash and a roster space.

traderumor
06-26-2009, 12:26 PM
Miley may not have been the greatest either but I would've kept him for, at least, a little longer. He was the Reds manager for only one full season and parts of two others. Check to see how many managers, general managers, and field directors this organization has had since the BRM days in the 70's. I'd kinda like a little stability for a change. To me this thread prompts the argument 'how much does the manager really matter'.
Ditto, granted if you run through that many managers in 8 years (nevermind the past 30) you can't really say they've had a long leash. Imo, the job of GM is more important cuz he gives the manager the players to work with.Miley should have never gotten the job in the first place, which is why he got fired. I think there is a short list of career minor league managers becoming winning major league managers. Of course, that is assuming that who the manager is has much to do with winning, but that's another debate.

dfs
06-26-2009, 12:49 PM
Miley should have never gotten the job in the first place, which is why he got fired. I think there is a short list of career minor league managers becoming winning major league managers. Of course, that is assuming that who the manager is has much to do with winning, but that's another debate.

Miley had his legs cut out from underneath him by the front office and then he lost the clubhouse. Nobody could have succeeded under those conditions.

The problem with stating that "only major league managers" can win is that those major league managers have to start out someplace.

The reds need stability in the front office and in the manager's chair far more than they need a solution of the day. Let Walt and Dusty build. Considering what Dusty has in the clubhouse, I think he's a miracle worker to have this team in striking distance of the division leaders.

TheNext44
06-26-2009, 12:49 PM
Miley should have never gotten the job in the first place, which is why he got fired. I think there is a short list of career minor league managers becoming winning major league managers. Of course, that is assuming that who the manager is has much to do with winning, but that's another debate.

The sad thing is that we will never know if Miley was a good major league manager. He was completely undercut by O'Brien, who forced him to play D'Angelo Jiminez, and run Milton and Ortiz out there every fifth day, no matter how hard they were getting hit, just to name a few things. He had no real say over the day to day dealings of the club, which made him ineffectual in the clubhouse. Nothing worse than a manager whose players know that he doesn't call the shots.

Miley finally admitted to Hal McCoy this past year, that if he could have done anything different, he would have been his own manager, and not listened to the front office.

I know it doesn't prove anything, but in Miley's only full season, he managed a team that allowed 907 runs and only scored 750 to a 76-86 record. Not great, but that is 9 games better than the Pythag for those RS/RA predicts. I would have loved to see what he could do with some talent and the chance to manage without front office pressure.

George Anderson
06-26-2009, 12:51 PM
I don't like Dusty but what quality replacement would want to come here when it would appear the owner has a itchy trigger finger.

RANDY IN INDY
06-26-2009, 01:42 PM
Miley had his legs cut out from underneath him by the front office and then he lost the clubhouse. Nobody could have succeeded under those conditions.

The problem with stating that "only major league managers" can win is that those major league managers have to start out someplace.

The reds need stability in the front office and in the manager's chair far more than they need a solution of the day. Let Walt and Dusty build. Considering what Dusty has in the clubhouse, I think he's a miracle worker to have this team in striking distance of the division leaders.

Good point.

Reds4Life
06-26-2009, 10:58 PM
I don't like Dusty but what quality replacement would want to come here when it would appear the owner has a itchy trigger finger.

A gigantic pile of money tends to sway personal opinions.

reds1869
06-26-2009, 11:17 PM
A gigantic pile of money tends to sway personal opinions.

Ah, the Steinbrenner Way. How many times did Billy Martin fall for that one? :)

LvJ
06-26-2009, 11:22 PM
We are soooooo close, yet sooooo far away.

redsfandan
06-26-2009, 11:24 PM
A gigantic pile of money is what we're paying Dusty. Just cuz you can throw money at a problem doesn't mean the problem will go away. I'd want to look at minor league managers and coaches in the bigs when Dusty is gone.

WVRedsFan
06-27-2009, 12:24 AM
Let me get this straight...I am not a fan of Dusty. Not one bit. But there is little any manager could do with the hand Dusty's been given. In just a couple of years, the team has totally changed directions. When Dusty arrived, we had a power hitting club with two 30+ HR guys in the outfield, a decent first base platoon, a promising second baseman, and a promising third baseman. There were holes in center field, catcher and at shortstop. Other than short, center, and catcher, the pitching was pitiful. Then we went the other way.

The left fielder was too expensive and the right fielder was aging, so we traded both for pitchers. We did not replace the power. We sign a low OBP man to play center and lead off and make it our priority to sign Jerry Hairston, Jr., and give him the left field job because minor league super star Jay Bruce is going to make us forget Junior Griffey. We plug the hole at catcher with a solid MLB catcher, and forget forever the black hole that was David Ross, Javier Valentin, and other similar players. We go with oft-injured Gonzalez at short. Note no players were signed to replace the HR's and RBI's of Dunn and Griffey. Of course Bruce was supposed to be Dunn and Votto was supposed to replace Dunn. Recipe for the disaster we are now witnessing.

Votto - hurt and out with "personal problems"
Gonzalez - hurt again and showing the decline many expected
Ecarnacion - hurt, missing most of the season
Hairston - for all the effort, he is a role player
Taveras - just a disaster
Bruce - multiple problems and looking worse as the season goes along. Confusing
Hernandez - playing first in place of Votto seems to have put him in a funk
Pitching staff - world class rotation is now mush. Harang and Arroyo keep getting hit
hard. Volquez is injured and maybe more serious than we thought.
Cueto is on and off. Owings is your typical fifth starter. Burton and
Lincoln couldn't do much. The pitching with the exception of the bullpen
sans the two mentioned earlier was fine.

What manager could do any better? I'm at a loss to know. Dusty is not the problem unless you can blame him for Taveras, Hairston, and the injuries and illnesses. Like was said earlier, we do need stability.

Degenerate39
06-27-2009, 01:27 AM
You can blame Dusty for constantly batting Taveras at lead off.

WVRedsFan
06-27-2009, 01:34 AM
You can blame Dusty for constantly batting Taveras at lead off.
True, but this team has so many problems that batting Taveras lead off alone does not mean losses. Batting Hairston second is another sin. Maybe if you add all the sins together you have an argument.

Sea Ray
06-27-2009, 10:50 AM
I think Dusty's biggest mistake is continuing to play Taveras but look at the Reds roster from top to bottom. Right now we have no 3B, no LF and no SS. For much of the year we've had no 1B. Volquez is gone for a long time. Jay Bruce has been a disappointment. Replacements from the minors have done little. Burton has regressed. Lincoln has been horrible.

My question is how can any manager win with all that? I think he's done a marvelous job keeping this train wreck near .500. Unless we get contributions from EE and Jay Bruce in the 2nd half, expect this team to fall further below .500.

Highlifeman21
06-27-2009, 12:31 PM
I think Dusty's biggest mistake is continuing to play Taveras but look at the Reds roster from top to bottom. Right now we have no 3B, no LF and no SS. For much of the year we've had no 1B. Volquez is gone for a long time. Jay Bruce has been a disappointment. Replacements from the minors have done little. Burton has regressed. Lincoln has been horrible.

My question is how can any manager win with all that? I think he's done a marvelous job keeping this train wreck near .500. Unless we get contributions from EE and Jay Bruce in the 2nd half, expect this team to fall further below .500.

Not sure about you, but I'm happy with Gomes/Nix in LF for the rest of this season and possibly next season.

CrackerJack
06-27-2009, 02:46 PM
Give Dusty a "good" CF and lead-off man, a RF who's talent still isn't in AAA, a real LF bat, a real major league SS, a major league 3B man, or at least a healthy one, and no one's complaining much about the Duster I'm guessing. A minor league system that could produce a reliever or two, or someone other than Cueto in the rotation after God knows how many years, wouldn't be bad either.

In the mean time he's forced to play a lot of cast-offs and sub par talent every year put together by a GM who's done a very poor job of constructing a team, sitting on his can doing a whole lot of nothing, and apparently, bad drafting, with the direction of a bad owner.

CrackerJack
06-27-2009, 02:51 PM
Not sure about you, but I'm happy with Gomes/Nix in LF for the rest of this season and possibly next season.

Don't know if I'm there yet...but looks like we'll get to see how they do with a significant sample size by year's end maybe.

westofyou
06-27-2009, 03:11 PM
Not sure about you, but I'm happy with Gomes/Nix in LF for the rest of this season and possibly next season.

Why settle for something so uninspiring?

redsfandan
06-27-2009, 03:15 PM
It maybe uninspiring but it's also effective and good value for the money spent. We have bigger concerns right now then leftfield.

Mario-Rijo
06-27-2009, 03:32 PM
Even if you gave Dusty everything he wanted you'd still have an underachieving team, because Dusty would find a way to outsmart himself. The only way Dusty will ever win is if you give him a group of guys that he can't screw up and that takes extra money and extra resources. When he asks for Willy Taveras and Corey Patterson you have to tell him no and then go out and overspend for someone who fits the bill that Dusty wants but who will actually not be as incompetent. Seriously you'd probably have to make a trade for Ichiro as he is one of the few guys who can play good CF defense, steal bases, who is aggressive at the plate and can actually make it all work.

I don't care how good the pizza toppings are the guy responsible for turning them into one quality dish can screw it up. It might still be edible but with that particular guy working the oven it will never be quite as good as it can be.

redsfandan
06-27-2009, 03:52 PM
The Reds are fortunate to be in the NL Central. If they were in the AL East there wouldn't be any question about whether they were buyers or sellers.

Sea Ray
06-27-2009, 05:20 PM
Not sure about you, but I'm happy with Gomes/Nix in LF for the rest of this season and possibly next season.

I was a big fan of trading Homer for Jermaine Dye in the off season. I think money in the end nixed that deal. I don't value Homer that much. Hope he proves me wrong. Now that we're down to a 3 mo rental I'm not into such a trade.

Until I see something better, I'm OK with Gomes/Nix in LF. I'm not sure where that leaves Dickerson. I'd like to see more of him in CF

Highlifeman21
06-27-2009, 05:42 PM
Why settle for something so uninspiring?

Unless we acquire another player from outside the organization to play LF, I don't see anything else more inspiring within the organization.

Highlifeman21
06-27-2009, 05:43 PM
I was a big fan of trading Homer for Jermaine Dye in the off season. I think money in the end nixed that deal. I don't value Homer that much. Hope he proves me wrong. Now that we're down to a 3 mo rental I'm not into such a trade.

Until I see something better, I'm OK with Gomes/Nix in LF. I'm not sure where that leaves Dickerson. I'd like to see more of him in CF

We definitely should have moved Bailey for Dye if that deal had any legitimacy.

You're right that we're more than a Dye rental away from making the playoffs for this season.

WVRedsFan
06-27-2009, 06:23 PM
We definitely should have moved Bailey for Dye if that deal had any legitimacy.

You're right that we're more than a Dye rental away from making the playoffs for this season.

It's not my money. I go for entertainment and Dye would have been more entertaining than what we see these days on the field. I hope Homer has a good night tonight, but I fear we'll see Homer do what Homer does--walk a few, give up a few big hits and leave early. That's not entertainment, that's torture. If Dye was playing, there would of been some kind of hope to get some runs -- at least more than 3 per game when needed.

GAC
06-27-2009, 09:46 PM
Let me get this straight...I am not a fan of Dusty. Not one bit. But there is little any manager could do with the hand Dusty's been given.

You don't think Dusty didn't have a hand in some of the players brought in in the off-season, and the personnel changes we've seen? This was a guy, when hired, who said he would draw players to this team since HE was now the manager.

redsfan4445
06-27-2009, 11:20 PM
dusty draws the punch and judy hitters Patterson/Taveras types.. No BIG NAMES!!

Ltlabner
06-28-2009, 01:41 PM
There are not nearly enough exclamation points in this thread.

WebScorpion
06-29-2009, 03:03 AM
I really don't see the problem. Dusty seems to be doing fine with the team he's been given. They're 2.5 games out of first and we're almost at the All-Star break. We have more talent in our Minor Leagues than I've seen since the 70's by all accounts we are going to be buyers at the trading deadline. I don't agree with all the decisions Dusty makes, (I used to scream at Sparky when he used the hook too soon too,) but I don't think another manager could get more out of these guys. Rick Sweet will get his shot someday...what's the rush? Let's see how this season plays out. :thumbup:

Highlifeman21
06-30-2009, 07:30 AM
There are not nearly enough exclamation points in this thread.

I think the latest wave of new tORG posters are supposed to help that very aspect of tORG.

Less talk, more rokk!!!