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View Full Version : Reds trade Norris Hopper for Corky Miller



dougdirt
06-26-2009, 01:05 PM
From a tweet from C Trent. Miller will report to AAA. Does that clear the way for Heisey in the AAA outfield?

TheNext44
06-26-2009, 01:10 PM
Does this mean Hopper is with the White Sox or their AAA team?

I would like to see him in the bigs, he seemed like a quality guy, and would make a good 5th outfielder for someone

I guess this fills the spot in AAA vacated by Castillo's injury?

cincyinco
06-26-2009, 01:10 PM
I'm just glad corky is back..

GIDP
06-26-2009, 01:12 PM
Im guessing Heisey will be moving up. Maybe Frazier? AAA will need a 3rd baseman after Edwin leaves unless they send down Rosales.

As for Corky Miller how the heck did the Reds have to actually trade for him? I thought that guy got cut when the sox traded for Castro.

Jones1
06-26-2009, 01:19 PM
You're not serious right? Corky is "AWFUL"! Might as well have traded Hopper for a bag of bats and balls. The guy(Miller)has never hit in the majors or in the minors. If Heisy or Frazier isnt called up this is a worthless move. Good for Hopper I guess, but bad for the Reds. What are the odds of Dwayne Wise being sent down and Hopper getting called up to the White Sox, I'd say very good.

Wise is hitting 190 in 58 ab's, While Hopper was hitting 280 in 214 ab's with Louisville.

Oh well,

OnBaseMachine
06-26-2009, 01:19 PM
I wasn't a big fan of Norris Hopper the player but he seems like a great guy. I wish him the best.

GIDP
06-26-2009, 01:22 PM
Maybe this is the buying Walt was hinting at!

thorn
06-26-2009, 01:23 PM
You're not serious right? Corky is "AWFUL"! Might as well have traded Hopper for a bag of bats and balls. The guy(Miller)has never hit in the majors or in the minors. If Heisy or Frazier isnt called up this is a worthless move. Good for Hopper I guess, but bad for the Reds. What are the odds of Dwayne Wise being sent down and Hopper getting called up to the White Sox, I'd say very good.

Wise is hitting 190 in 58 ab's, While Hopper was hitting 280 in 214 ab's with Louisville.

Oh well,

I don't see how you can classify this as "Bad" for the Reds. It's strictly a move to help the Bats, and Hopper was so far down the depth chart for OF's, he most likely would have never found a spot with the Reds, bench or otherwise. Was Hopper on the 40 man?

Scrap Irony
06-26-2009, 01:23 PM
Im guessing Heisey will be moving up. Maybe Frazier?

Agreed. Heisey has a good chance at coming up soon. Frazier-- I doubt. Roslaes should be coming back to AAA and, though all of us want Frazier to move up and play the hot corner, Cincinnati hasn't shown they are looking to do that.

In fact, you could argue Frazier's development is among the most questionable in recent Red minor league history. They seem to have absolutely no plan when it comes to him specifically.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2009, 01:23 PM
From Fay's blog:

Reds acquired from the White Sox minor league C Corky Miller in exchange for minor league OF NorrisHopper...Miller this season appeared in 14g for the White Sox and 4g for Class AAA Charlotte...he will report to ClassAAA Louisville...Hopper has spent the entire season with Louisville.with Louisville.
Miller, 33, spent four seasons with the Reds (01-04). He's a career .179 hitter in 374 major-league at-bats.



From C-trent:

Reds trade OF Norris Hopper to the White Sox for catcher Corky Miller, a former Red. Miller will report to Louisville.

The Reds needed a catcher in AAA, and Miller is a veteran that makes some sense. I still think it’s a little much for Miller.

The White Sox need outfield help, and I hope Hopper gets a chance there. I’d rather have him than Willy Taveras, but, well, you know. I’d rather have Drew Stubbs up here, than maybe either.

I don’t think the Reds have ever been high on Hopper, seeing him as more of an reserve outfielder than anything. That said, he’s one of the few guys you feel good about getting a hit against a lefty (against a left-handed pitcher, he’ll always do that push bunt and it works more often than not, even when the other team knows it’s coming).

Good luck to Norris, a quality guy, who should get a chance to play there.

GIDP
06-26-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't see how you can classify this as "Bad" for the Reds. It's strictly a move to help the Bats, and Hopper was so far down the depth chart for OF's, he most likely would have never found a spot with the Reds, bench or otherwise. Was Hopper on the 40 man?

Hopper wasnt on the 40 man.

If anything this also tells us how unvaluable Darnell Mcdonald is across the league. He couldnt even be traded for Corky Miller.

Mario-Rijo
06-26-2009, 01:27 PM
I figured we were in the market for a guy like Corky who at least has a little major league experience. If one of Ramon/Ryan gets hurt then Tatum would have been next in line, and he doesn't seem to be ready. I'm a bit surprised it was Hopper who went, but I suppose even Kenny Williams is smart enough not to take on McD. Good luck Norris you'll probably be starting in Chicago soon. Now if that will clear the way for Heisey (i'm sure it does) it's all good.

dougdirt
06-26-2009, 01:28 PM
Hopper wasnt on the 40 man.

If anything this also tells us how unvaluable Darnell Mcdonald is across the league. He couldnt even be traded for Corky Miller.

Of it tells us that Dusty and Walt like McDonald more than Hopper....

Benihana
06-26-2009, 01:29 PM
Keep moving, nothing to see here...

GIDP
06-26-2009, 01:29 PM
Of it tells us that Dusty and Walt like McDonald more than Hopper....

both are probably true :laugh:

Jones1
06-26-2009, 01:32 PM
I don't see how you can classify this as "Bad" for the Reds. It's strictly a move to help the Bats, and Hopper was so far down the depth chart for OF's, he most likely would have never found a spot with the Reds, bench or otherwise. Was Hopper on the 40 man?

Im not saying it was a move that wasn't needed to be made If Heisey or Frazier get moved up, but they could have done much better. They bassically gave away a guy who will get playing time for the White Sox for a guy that will never sniff the Reds starting lineup and beyond that wont do anything to help the Bats team win whatsoever. Not sure its good to trade decent players just to trade them for nothing because you have depth. Corky is woeful! I think they could of gotten more for Hopper JMHO.

GIDP
06-26-2009, 01:33 PM
Where is Paul Bako when you need him.

lollipopcurve
06-26-2009, 01:33 PM
doesn't create room anywhere, really -- since Mike Griffin can play OF they have 4 OFs in Louisville -- they'll need to release or demote someone if Heisey is going to go up

Mario-Rijo
06-26-2009, 01:35 PM
Where is Paul Bako when you need him.

Probably available but with the Cubs last I heard. I did think the Reds might consider Javy but I didn't want to get Chips hopes up. ;)

Jones1
06-26-2009, 01:38 PM
Corky Miller makes Paul Bako look like Johhny Bench reincarnate!

OesterPoster
06-26-2009, 01:39 PM
Good luck Norris you'll probably be starting in Chicago soon.

An outfield with Hopper and Wise is fearsome. :)

bubbachunk
06-26-2009, 01:46 PM
Wow when I refreshed I thought this was a thread years old someone had bumped :cool:

GOYA
06-26-2009, 01:57 PM
Bad trade, IMO. Hopper is worth much more than Miller.

I'm guessing the awful Brian Peterson will go away to make room for the awful Corky Miller. It makes no sense except for making room for a callup. That could have been accomplished with a trade that wasn't awful.

camisadelgolf
06-26-2009, 02:01 PM
Where is Paul Bako when you need him.
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

CTA513
06-26-2009, 02:05 PM
Hopper wasn't going to play for the Reds so this should free up a spot so they can promote someone from AA.
It will also give Hopper a chance to replace someone like Dewayne Wise until Carlos Quentin is ready to return.

redsmetz
06-26-2009, 02:08 PM
Is it out of the realm of possibility that the Reds were doing Hopper a favor? As some have noted, Hopper was way down on our depth chart and there are guys knocking on the door. Is it possible too, that this might mean that Hannigan or Hernandez are on the market and that a Louisville catcher might be coming up as back up? I'm not suggesting it would be Miller, since he'd have to be added to the 40 man, but maybe a deal is being worked out for Hernadez which lets Hannigan be the starter. Just thinking out loud.

camisadelgolf
06-26-2009, 02:09 PM
Corky Miller is one of the few people in baseball who has had a slump worse than Willy Taveras'. I remember when he went a span of nearly 60 at-bats with only one hit. Still, I like the trade. It frees up space in the outfield, and Miller is an upgrade over Brian Peterson. It also means that Chris Denove and Chris Kroski don't need to be rushed up to AAA if something were to happen to Craig Tatum and/or Brian Peterson.

princeton
06-26-2009, 02:12 PM
We're buyers at the dollar store.

welcome back, Corky.

princeton
06-26-2009, 02:16 PM
It also means that Chris Denove and Chris Kroski don't need to be rushed up to AAA if something were to happen to Craig Tatum and/or Brian Peterson.


protect the peons.

camisadelgolf
06-26-2009, 02:17 PM
protect the peons.
I meant it more in the sense that the Reds' AAA pitchers would probably rather throw to more experienced catchers.

RedsManRick
06-26-2009, 02:25 PM
At this level of talent, value is as much about fit as production. A catcher who won't completely embarass himself in the major leagues if pressed in to action is much more valuable to the Reds than a Willy Taveras lite.

smith288
06-26-2009, 02:25 PM
Here's what I think about this...

Well, I had skyline for lunch so It'll have to wait a little....

Tom Servo
06-26-2009, 02:30 PM
Hey, I got to see one of Hopper's last games in the Reds orginazation a few days ago.


But atleast Corky's back! CORKY!


Oh, and the Bats are still playing the Charlotte White Sox AAA team at the moment. Isn't that kind of akward, to start a road trip with the visiting team and then stay back with the home team?

Griffey012
06-26-2009, 02:32 PM
At this level of talent, value is as much about fit as production. A catcher who won't completely embarass himself in the major leagues if pressed in to action is much more valuable to the Reds than a Willy Taveras lite.

The problem is Willy Taveras is Norris Hopper light.

GIDP
06-26-2009, 02:42 PM
At this level of talent, value is as much about fit as production. A catcher who won't completely embarass himself in the major leagues if pressed in to action is much more valuable to the Reds than a Willy Taveras lite.

I bet Hopper could play behind the plate.

GOYA
06-26-2009, 02:44 PM
Oh, and the Bats are still playing the Charlotte White Sox AAA team at the moment. Isn't that kind of akward, to start a road trip with the visiting team and then stay back with the home team?

Well, Corky will just change clubhouses. Hopper might be headed to the Sox.

davereds24
06-26-2009, 02:45 PM
in 2002 with Cincinnati he hit .026


looks like he will fit right in

Captain Hook
06-26-2009, 02:46 PM
The Reds pretty much gave the Sox's a guy who can probably help their big league team for next to nothing.Does anyone think that this could have been done for a little extra consideration in case Chicago decides to sell and Dye becomes available again?

camisadelgolf
06-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Catchers who OPS over .800 in the minors typically bring in something of value. I don't think this is as bad of a trade as it seems.

_Sir_Charles_
06-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Is it out of the realm of possibility that the Reds were doing Hopper a favor? As some have noted, Hopper was way down on our depth chart and there are guys knocking on the door. Is it possible too, that this might mean that Hannigan or Hernandez are on the market and that a Louisville catcher might be coming up as back up? I'm not suggesting it would be Miller, since he'd have to be added to the 40 man, but maybe a deal is being worked out for Hernadez which lets Hannigan be the starter. Just thinking out loud.

This is what I was thinking too. Norris is a great guy, but he was NEVER going to get another chance with the Reds the way things are now. This gives him a shot somewhere.

As for the catching thing...I seriously doubt it. Miller was just for depth in the minors. Most likely a minor league back up back stop, nothing more, nothing less.

Mario-Rijo
06-26-2009, 03:24 PM
This is what I was thinking too. Norris is a great guy, but he was NEVER going to get another chance with the Reds the way things are now. This gives him a shot somewhere.

As for the catching thing...I seriously doubt it. Miller was just for depth in the minors. Most likely a minor league back up back stop, nothing more, nothing less.

Agree, just an answer for Castillo being DL'ed for the season.

RANDY IN INDY
06-26-2009, 03:27 PM
I would tend to agree with that. Teams, do, sometimes do players a favor, particularly if they are good people who have been good team players.

M2
06-26-2009, 03:40 PM
The organization that has Miller in house when he retires is in on the ground floor of a great future manager.

GOYA
06-26-2009, 03:46 PM
Miller was just for depth in the minors. Most likely a minor league back up back stop, nothing more, nothing less.

Like Brian Peterson?

mace
06-26-2009, 04:01 PM
The organization that has Miller in house when he retires is in on the ground floor of a great future manager.

Agreed. The only time I've watched Miller at any length was during spring training a few years ago, on a back field. I don't recall what the drill was, but I vividly remember being impressed with Miller; very impressed. He was in total charge of the thing--hustling, assertive, intense. He was brimming with initiative. My distinct impression was that he was a manager-in-waiting. In advance of that, he seems like a great guy to have at AAA, handling and educating your young pitchers.

Jack Burton
06-26-2009, 04:19 PM
Well, life goes on.

traderumor
06-26-2009, 04:23 PM
The organization that has Miller in house when he retires is in on the ground floor of a great future manager.He's already got a great manager name. A manager should be named Corky and your pitching coach Lefty ;)

nate
06-26-2009, 04:29 PM
He's already got a great manager name. A manager should be named Corky and your pitching coach Lefty ;)

Batting Coach: Homer
Baserunning coach: should read "Hustler"

etc...

Highlifeman21
06-26-2009, 04:44 PM
Lotta former AAAA Reds playing for the White Sox, particularly the OF

camisadelgolf
06-26-2009, 04:52 PM
Chris Chambliss is also Charlotte's manager.

Jones1
06-26-2009, 05:34 PM
At this level of talent, value is as much about fit as production. A catcher who won't completely embarass himself in the major leagues if pressed in to action is much more valuable to the Reds than a Willy Taveras lite.

Wont embarrass himself, are you kidding me the guy is awful! Look at his stats! The guys major league career BA isn't even 200 and his career BA in AAA is 250. There is no way this guy will ever get close to joining the reds and I still think this was a stupid trade. I dont care if Norris hopper isnt great he's WAY better than Miller and can be a serviceable major leaguer.

Corky Major League Career
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/milleco01.shtml?redir

Corky Minor League Career
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=miller001abr

Jones1
06-26-2009, 05:39 PM
Chris Chambliss is also Charlotte's manager.

Can we trade Chambliss for Jacoby? Just a thought.

Orenda
06-26-2009, 05:47 PM
Someone in AAA had to go to make room for the younger guys. At least Norris will be able to go somewhere where he might be able to stick on a roster.

GIDP
06-26-2009, 05:48 PM
Wont embarrass himself, are you kidding me the guy is awful! Look at his stats! The guys major league career BA isn't even 200 and his career BA in AAA is 250. There is no way this guy will ever get close to joining the reds and I still think this was a stupid trade. I dont care if Norris hopper isnt great he's WAY better than Miller and can be a serviceable major leaguer.

Corky Major League Career
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/milleco01.shtml?redir

Corky Minor League Career
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=miller001abr

im gonna have to agree with this.

corkedbat
06-26-2009, 05:48 PM
whew, with Castillo on the DL I as worried about not having a quality 3rd catcher! I expect him to be added to the 25-man within the week. Got to give it up to walt, he knows how to go out and fill need! :thumbup::evil:

Mario-Rijo
06-26-2009, 05:55 PM
whew, with Castillo on the DL I as worried about not having a quality 3rd catcher! I expect him to be added to the 25-man within the week. Got to give it up to walt, he knows how to go out and fill need! :thumbup::evil:

:D

But seriously Miller isn't really any worse than Castillo offensively it was just gonna take the league more PA's to figure this out. And at least Corky can catch a little bit.

Mario-Rijo
06-26-2009, 05:56 PM
Can we trade Chambliss for Jacoby? Just a thought.

I think we already did.

redsfandan
06-26-2009, 06:32 PM
Kinda happy for Hopper really. Yes, he has no power. Neither does Taveras. And I think it's debatable whether Patterson was that better overall for the money paid. With the Sox there's a better chance he'll actually be used. Good for him.

GIDP
06-26-2009, 06:39 PM
as I said in the other thread

Its amazing that a team could actually get such a bad return for Norris Hopper.

HokieRed
06-26-2009, 07:46 PM
This looks to me primarily like a favor to Hopper and to the Sox and a way to open up playing time for Chris Heisey. I've no problem with any of those, and I wish Hopper the best.

redsmetz
06-26-2009, 08:13 PM
This looks to me primarily like a favor to Hopper and to the Sox and a way to open up playing time for Chris Heisey. I've no problem with any of those, and I wish Hopper the best.

That's what I suggested earlier. And I sort of agree that Miller may well be as much coach as he is catcher. But that's purely conjecture on my part.

Patrick Bateman
06-26-2009, 09:02 PM
This is how I envisioned this thread:

Poster 1: Norris Hopper was traded for Corky Miller

Poster 2: Hmmmm.... Corky Miller what an obscure reference.

/End thread

Never did I see 5 pages of analyzing the merits of a complete and utter depth trade happening.

flash
06-26-2009, 10:05 PM
in 2002 with Cincinnati he hit .026


looks like he will fit right in

great line, Made the whole thread worth reading.

reds44
06-26-2009, 10:12 PM
I once called Corky Miller the worst baseball player I have ever seen.

True story.

OesterPoster
06-26-2009, 10:49 PM
I once called Corky Miller the worst baseball player I have ever seen.

True story.

B.C. (Before Corey)

TC81190
06-27-2009, 12:54 AM
I'm not sure I understand any kind of hand wringing over losing Norris Hopper.

Plus Plus
06-27-2009, 12:55 AM
I wasn't around when the board soured on Hopper, apparently. All I know is that he hit like .330 in 07 and then got buried.

Can someone enlighten me? I never remember Hopper being anything other than a better version of one Willy Taveras.

TC81190
06-27-2009, 12:59 AM
I wasn't around when the board soured on Hopper, apparently. All I know is that he hit like .330 in 07 and then got buried.

Can someone enlighten me? I never remember Hopper being anything other than a better version of one Willy Taveras.
Hopper has always gotten on base via push bunt. I'm not sure he can even swing a bat.

nate
06-27-2009, 09:05 AM
Hopper has always gotten on base via push bunt. I'm not sure he can even swing a bat.

Hopper also made Willy look like Magellan based on some of the routes he (NoHo) took to the ball.

kpresidente
06-27-2009, 09:59 AM
Hopper has always gotten on base via push bunt. I'm not sure he can even swing a bat.

Redzone analysis:

push bunt = bad
walk = good

kpresidente
06-27-2009, 10:21 AM
Can someone enlighten me? I never remember Hopper being anything other than a better version of one Willy Taveras.

I got blasted in the offseason for suggesting that Hopper, with his career .406 OBP vs. LH, should platoon in CF with Dickerson this year.

CesarGeronimo
06-27-2009, 10:35 AM
Redzone analysis:

push bunt = bad
walk = good

Cesar Geronimo analysis:

making an out = bad
making it to first = good

chance of making it to first with a push bunt = 20 to 30 percent
chance of making it to first on a walk = 100 percent

yes, I prefer the walk

kfm
06-27-2009, 10:43 AM
Cesar Geronimo analysis:

making an out = bad
making it to first = good

chance of making it to first with a push bunt = 20 to 30 percent
chance of making it to first on a walk = 100 percent

yes, I prefer the walk

Is there some new rule that says you can only do one or the other. The only reason I am even following this thread is because I am assuming that this is where someone will post if CHris Heisey has been called up to Louisville. If that is not the case I will start ignoring this thread.

kpresidente
06-27-2009, 11:00 AM
Cesar Geronimo analysis:

making an out = bad
making it to first = good

chance of making it to first with a push bunt = 20 to 30 percent
chance of making it to first on a walk = 100 percent

Hopper got on base on 61% of his bunts (not 20-30%). Show me a player who walks 61% of the time.

You missed the rather obvious point, which is, it doesn't matter how you get to first, a bunt is as good as a walk.

nate
06-27-2009, 11:11 AM
Hopper got on base on 61% of his bunts (not 20-30%). Show me a player who walks 61% of the time.

You missed the rather obvious point, which is, it doesn't matter how you get to first, a bunt is as good as a walk.

Show me a player who gets on base via bunt hits 61% of the time in 600 ABs rather than 40-odd ABs.

Patrick Bateman
06-27-2009, 01:10 PM
Show me a player who gets on base via bunt hits 61% of the time in 600 ABs rather than 40-odd ABs.

Lots of people do it. Why do you think so many hitters consistently bat over .500?

dougdirt
06-27-2009, 01:14 PM
For the record, Norris Hopper is 2 for 6 on bunts this year in AAA with 1 sac bunt (so likely 2 for 7 because we know Hopper was going for the hit, but just happened to be thrown out).

kpresidente
06-27-2009, 06:21 PM
Show me a player who gets on base via bunt hits 61% of the time in 600 ABs rather than 40-odd ABs.
Makes you wonder how he managed a .370 OBP if he only bunted in 40-odd ABs.

nate
06-27-2009, 07:32 PM
Makes you wonder how he managed a .370 OBP if he only bunted in 40-odd ABs.

I don't wonder about that. What I wonder about is, if he's so good, why has he never gotten 600 ABs in his career, let alone a single season.

Plus Plus
06-27-2009, 11:04 PM
Lance's idea regarding why he never received 600 PAs in a season was because after his emergence in '07 (hitting .425 or something in August, and .350 after the ASB as a starter) he got buried and wasnt one of "Dusty's Guys." He received like 50 PAs in 08 and wasn't even on the 40-man this year. He was brought in by a regime in the past and had "nobody to fight for him." Again, this is Lance's idea, not my own.

I struggle to think of many players who hit .330 over half of a season and like .425 in a month as a starter that get flat-out dumped, though.

Nate, I don't think people are arguing that Hopper is a great talent or a star player potentially or even a MLB starting level player on 20+ teams. However, I think you could argue that he easily belongs on a MLB roster as a 3rd or 4th outfielder, given his MLB production (albeit in a small sample size).

HokieRed
06-27-2009, 11:10 PM
Reds currently have Bruce, Dickerson, Gomes, Nix, Dorn, Stubbs, and Heisey (in addition to you know who). Next year if Alonso is ready to go, we might add Votto to that list and possibly also Frazier. That's as many as 9 guys who would have to come ahead of Hopper for outfield spots. How could he be on our roster?

Plus Plus
06-27-2009, 11:19 PM
My statement was more in reference to the offseason after 07 moreso than it was about the trade itself. I agree that Hopper had little to no future with the Reds at this point.

fearofpopvol1
06-28-2009, 02:19 AM
i wasn't a major hopper fan...but c'mon...he is light years better than Miller. the reds are pretty stacked on the OF front so it's not likely hopper was going to see any PT...but still. i have to think they could've done better than miller.

nate
06-28-2009, 08:40 AM
Lance's idea regarding why he never received 600 PAs in a season was because after his emergence in '07 (hitting .425 or something in August, and .350 after the ASB as a starter) he got buried and wasnt one of "Dusty's Guys." He received like 50 PAs in 08 and wasn't even on the 40-man this year. He was brought in by a regime in the past and had "nobody to fight for him." Again, this is Lance's idea, not my own.

I struggle to think of many players who hit .330 over half of a season and like .425 in a month as a starter that get flat-out dumped, though.

Nate, I don't think people are arguing that Hopper is a great talent or a star player potentially or even a MLB starting level player on 20+ teams. However, I think you could argue that he easily belongs on a MLB roster as a 3rd or 4th outfielder, given his MLB production (albeit in a small sample size).

Personally, I don't think Dusty would bury a > .330 hitter.

NoHo was an OK player but he was so deep on the depth chart that one would need to dive the Navy tables and spend a week decompressing in the chamber just to get him. This move isn't a talent swap, it's an organizational flexibility swap.

Mario-Rijo
06-28-2009, 05:38 PM
Personally, I don't think Dusty would bury a > .330 hitter.

NoHo was an OK player but he was so deep on the depth chart that one would need to dive the Navy tables and spend a week decompressing in the chamber just to get him. This move isn't a talent swap, it's an organizational flexibility swap.

Exactly a player we have no need for, for a player they have no need for.

texasdave
06-28-2009, 05:50 PM
Personally, I don't think Dusty would bury a > .330 hitter.
NoHo was an OK player but he was so deep on the depth chart that one would need to dive the Navy tables and spend a week decompressing in the chamber just to get him. This move isn't a talent swap, it's an organizational flexibility swap.

We have no proof of that. We do, however, have proof that Dusty will give a sub-.600 OPSer start after start after start. That speaks volumes to me.

Benihana
06-28-2009, 06:37 PM
You know there's not much going on when this thread is six pages long.