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View Full Version : Edwin Encarnacion's timetable for a return to the bigs...



Kingspoint
06-26-2009, 07:08 PM
I see where Dusty Baker said, "I don't think so", when asked if he thought EE would be returning to the Major League club to begin Tuesday's home stand. He said, "He's got a different swing than Joey", inferring I guess that EE's swing requires more timing or something like that.

I wouldn't think it's going to be too much longer after that. Why would a hitter need more than 10 days in the minors? Perhaps the hand swells every night, or swells after a few days, and they want to make sure there isn't any swelling at all, even after a week of playing, before the move him up for good this time.

dougdirt
06-26-2009, 08:16 PM
I see where Dusty Baker said, "I don't think so", when asked if he thought EE would be returning to the Major League club to begin Tuesday's home stand. He said, "He's got a different swing than Joey", inferring I guess that EE's swing requires more timing or something like that.

I wouldn't think it's going to be too much longer after that. Why would a hitter need more than 10 days in the minors? Perhaps the hand swells every night, or swells after a few days, and they want to make sure there isn't any swelling at all, even after a week of playing, before the move him up for good this time.

Or perhaps Dusty and the Reds just LOVE a .300 OBP 3B named Jerry Hairston and want to keep him playing?

GIDP
06-26-2009, 08:26 PM
Im going with Doug on this one. Dusty is probably trying to give Hairston as many chances as possible to heat up so he wont have to take him out of hte line up.

Joseph
06-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Hairston will be in LF soon as EE gets back, lets not kid ourselves.

Caveat Emperor
06-26-2009, 08:58 PM
Im going with Doug on this one. Dusty is probably trying to give Hairston as many chances as possible to heat up so he wont have to take him out of hte line up.

Or maybe the Reds are giving Encarnacion a chance to get himself right at AAA before bringing him up.

He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire this spring -- and he hasn't exactly been a consistent hitter through his career with the Reds; certainly not good enough to say "well, I'm sure he'll find his groove once he gets back up."

Plus, lets not forget the fact that his defense has been somewhere between terrible and awful during his tenure with the team; they may be getting him as many reps as possible in the field to ensure that he's as OK as can be defensively prior to ocming up.

dougdirt
06-26-2009, 09:05 PM
Or maybe the Reds are giving Encarnacion a chance to get himself right at AAA before bringing him up.

He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire this spring -- and he hasn't exactly been a consistent hitter through his career with the Reds; certainly not good enough to say "well, I'm sure he'll find his groove once he gets back up."

Plus, lets not forget the fact that his defense has been somewhere between terrible and awful during his tenure with the team; they may be getting him as many reps as possible in the field to ensure that he's as OK as can be defensively prior to ocming up.

While I was slightly kidding with my comment above, I don't think Edwin is going to be left down for work on the defense at all. While its certainly an issue he should correct, its not one the Reds are going to leave him down to work on. Given that the other options are Hairston/Richar/Janish/Rosales, Edwin at 75-80% is a much better offensive option.

redsfandan
06-26-2009, 10:24 PM
Hairston will be in LF soon as EE gets back, lets not kid ourselves.
Man I hope not.

Plus, lets not forget the fact that his defense has been somewhere between terrible and awful during his tenure with the team; they may be getting him as many reps as possible in the field to ensure that he's as OK as can be defensively prior to ocming up.
I don't agree with this. EE has been capable of average defense and occasionally very good plays. Most of the problem has been when he rushes throws to 1st. I'd like to think that can still be improved.

Kc61
06-26-2009, 10:33 PM
I believe EE will be at AAA awhile longer because the Reds want to avoid re-injury. Awhile back it seemed he had a setback and the Reds want to be cautious. I think it's that simple. With the team's offensive woes, if the Reds were sure of his health EE would be in the major leagues right now.

GOYA
06-27-2009, 01:15 AM
EE has power. That's a given. But EE also has trouble putting the bat on the ball. Let him hit for a decent avg against AAA pitching before bringing him up. The Reds don't need another .211 hitter right now.

dougdirt
06-27-2009, 01:20 AM
EE has power. That's a given. But EE also has trouble putting the bat on the ball. Let him hit for a decent avg against AAA pitching before bringing him up. The Reds don't need another .211 hitter right now.

They could use a .400 OBP and .579 SLG guy though. Not that either of those translate to the Majors or anything, but Edwin isn't a .211 hitter just like he isn't a .579 SLG guy. He is a guy who is going to hit you .270/.350/.460. If he looks fine in Louisville, he should be up with the Reds the day he is eligible to come off the DL (today I believe). He has spent a week seeing live pitching. Only the Reds send starters to the minors to rehab this long.

Mario-Rijo
06-27-2009, 02:00 AM
While I was slightly kidding with my comment above, I don't think Edwin is going to be left down for work on the defense at all. While its certainly an issue he should correct, its not one the Reds are going to leave him down to work on. Given that the other options are Hairston/Richar/Janish/Rosales, Edwin at 75-80% is a much better offensive option.

I don't want to put words in CE's mouth but I read his comments to mean they want him at his sharpest when he returns so we don't actually get a worse defender than possible.

Mario-Rijo
06-27-2009, 02:02 AM
Man I hope not.

I don't agree with this. EE has been capable of average defense and occasionally very good plays. Most of the problem has been when he rushes throws to 1st. I'd like to think that can still be improved.

Actually EE tends to make more errant throws when he doesn't rush and has time to think about his throw. Oddly he does pretty well when he just catches and gets rid of it. Certainly he has done both but primarily when he slows it down he gets into trouble.

Mario-Rijo
06-27-2009, 02:11 AM
They could use a .400 OBP and .579 SLG guy though. Not that either of those translate to the Majors or anything, but Edwin isn't a .211 hitter just like he isn't a .579 SLG guy. He is a guy who is going to hit you .270/.350/.460. If he looks fine in Louisville, he should be up with the Reds the day he is eligible to come off the DL (today I believe). He has spent a week seeing live pitching. Only the Reds send starters to the minors to rehab this long.

I'd agree let's just get him up here already, IMO there is no real good reason for him to spend more than a week in AAA. It's not as if they are playing well so he certainly can't hurt any momentum. We have 4 weeks until the trade deadline time to put this team out there and see exactly what we have. On the flip side unless he has learned something new his addition isn't likely to do a whole lot more for us. I mean we are still short another bat or 2. I seen the Red Sox have inquired about my boy Macier Izturis, from the report it looks like they may have offered Takashi Saito. Time to get a real SS and a real CF (or play Dickerson there and get Scott Hairston to pair with Nix) bring EE back and see what happens.

GIDP
06-27-2009, 02:30 AM
Id take Edwins throws to 1st over Hairstons lobs every day all day. :laugh:

Edwin shouldnt be held on a rehab if he says he ready to come up and the doctors clear him.

Caveat Emperor
06-27-2009, 02:31 AM
While I was slightly kidding with my comment above, I don't think Edwin is going to be left down for work on the defense at all. While its certainly an issue he should correct, its not one the Reds are going to leave him down to work on. Given that the other options are Hairston/Richar/Janish/Rosales, Edwin at 75-80% is a much better offensive option.

My point was that I don't want them to rush a guy back who has a history of defensive deficiencies until he's had enough defensive reps to be able to field the position to the best of his limited abilities. He shouldn't be held down to "work" on stuff, but he also shouldn't be rushed back to a big league field.

And yes, I'm sadly forced to agree that Encarnacion is the best of what's around at 3rd base. It should be added incentive for the Reds to acquire a better, more complete player to man the position in the future and either move Encarnacion to LF where his poor/sloppy play won't cost the team as many runs and outs, or ship him off somewhere to let another team deal with his inconsistent ability to make contact at the plate and defensive adventures.

BoxingRed
06-27-2009, 08:37 AM
Was at the Bats game last night. Edwin was not getting much to hit at all. His second at bat he took a walk on 4 pitches that were no where near the zone. Third at bat, with the game out of reach, he seemed to be looking for anything worth taking a swing at and struck out.

GOYA
06-27-2009, 12:01 PM
He is a guy who is going to hit you .270/.350/.460.

I wish someone would convince EE of that.


My point was that I don't want them to rush a guy back who has a history of defensive deficiencies until he's had enough defensive reps to be able to field the position to the best of his limited abilities.

I don't think his defensive chances are what they've been concentrating on in AAA. He has DH'ed twice so far. (I think)

11larkin11
06-28-2009, 03:53 PM
Hairston will be in LF soon as EE gets back, lets not kid ourselves.

Thankfully, SS is open right now, and thats where he'll play. He's much less of an offensive liability there, and his throws are actually better there. I would venture to say, he is actually an "average" defensive SS *ducks*

Caveat Emperor
06-28-2009, 05:28 PM
Thankfully, SS is open right now, and thats where he'll play. He's much less of an offensive liability there, and his throws are actually better there. I would venture to say, he is actually an "average" defensive SS *ducks*

An Encarnacion-Hairston pairing on the left side of the infield is just unfair to the pitching staff.

Without looking at the numbers, I'd lay even money on it being the worst defensive combo in the majors.

Brutus
06-28-2009, 05:34 PM
I wish someone would convince EE of that.




His career is .260 / .343 / .445, so I don't think he needs much convincing.

reds44
06-28-2009, 08:47 PM
His career is .260 / .343 / .445, so I don't think he needs much convincing.
And I can promise you all three of those numbers will be higher by the end of 2009.

Scrap Irony
06-29-2009, 11:53 AM
An Encarnacion-Hairston pairing on the left side of the infield is just unfair to the pitching staff.

Without looking at the numbers, I'd lay even money on it being the worst defensive combo in the majors.

So far, in 13 games at SS, Hairston's UZR/150 is +15.3.

The eyeball test also confirms, in that limited time, he's been much, much improved over last season.

Encarnacion, OTOH, graded out at - 23.9 in 19 games.

bucksfan2
06-29-2009, 12:19 PM
And I can promise you all three of those numbers will be higher by the end of 2009.

Right now Edwin sits at .127/.286/.190. He would need to go on a massive terror when he comes back to the Reds to get those numbers up and above his career average.

Im not doubting that Edwin has talent but I want to see him perform at a high level first. My friend told me this the other day. He said Reds the same Reds fans who thought Edwin should be benched or sent to the minors are now expecting him to become their offensive savior.

Homer Bailey
06-29-2009, 12:26 PM
Right now Edwin sits at .127/.286/.190. He would need to go on a massive terror when he comes back to the Reds to get those numbers up and above his career average.

Im not doubting that Edwin has talent but I want to see him perform at a high level first. My friend told me this the other day. He said Reds the same Reds fans who thought Edwin should be benched or sent to the minors are now expecting him to become their offensive savior.

I'm guessing those numbers are included in EE's career numbers.

dougdirt
06-29-2009, 12:32 PM
Right now Edwin sits at .127/.286/.190. He would need to go on a massive terror when he comes back to the Reds to get those numbers up and above his career average.

Im not doubting that Edwin has talent but I want to see him perform at a high level first. My friend told me this the other day. He said Reds the same Reds fans who thought Edwin should be benched or sent to the minors are now expecting him to become their offensive savior.

Really it wouldn't be a huge tear for him to come close to matching it. If he had 300 PA and went .370 OBP from here forward and slugged .481 from here forward (are those really outrageous bets for him?) he would finish at .254/.353/.425, not all that far off.

Brutus
06-29-2009, 02:40 PM
Right now Edwin sits at .127/.286/.190. He would need to go on a massive terror when he comes back to the Reds to get those numbers up and above his career average.

Im not doubting that Edwin has talent but I want to see him perform at a high level first. My friend told me this the other day. He said Reds the same Reds fans who thought Edwin should be benched or sent to the minors are now expecting him to become their offensive savior.

At this point, it doesn't really even matter what he finishes with. Just being the average Edwin Encarnacion the rest of the season (even if it means his season totals finish lower than normal) is the huge upgrade from what the Reds have received at the position thus far this year. He does not need to perform higher than his averages, just perform at his average and it's still a huge upgrade from here on forward.

Kingspoint
06-29-2009, 05:02 PM
Or perhaps Dusty and the Reds just LOVE a .300 OBP 3B named Jerry Hairston and want to keep him playing?

Ouch. That's about as sarcastic as you get, Doug.

You rarely make a dig.

You must really be frustrated about Dusty's lineups.

FWIW, have there been any signs in the home crowds asking Dusty about his lineup construction?

Kingspoint
06-29-2009, 06:23 PM
Really it wouldn't be a huge tear for him to come close to matching it. If he had 300 PA and went .370 OBP from here forward and slugged .481 from here forward (are those really outrageous bets for him?) he would finish at .254/.353/.425, not all that far off.

Add to that, if you look at what he did last summer (from this point forward), you're being conservative in what he will do once he gets back.

You can pencil in an OPS of .770 minimum from this point forward. That I'm 100% sure of.

reds44
06-30-2009, 12:12 AM
Right now Edwin sits at .127/.286/.190. He would need to go on a massive terror when he comes back to the Reds to get those numbers up and above his career average.

Im not doubting that Edwin has talent but I want to see him perform at a high level first. My friend told me this the other day. He said Reds the same Reds fans who thought Edwin should be benched or sent to the minors are now expecting him to become their offensive savior.
Well if he just put up his career normals coming into this year, his career numbers would go back up, if that makes sense.

He only had 60 ABs before he went on the DL, that's nothing.