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View Full Version : DeRosa to Cards For Perez & PTBNL



TheNext44
06-27-2009, 11:00 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/cardinals-acquire-mark-derosa.html


According to the MLB.com Twitter, the Cardinals have acquired Mark DeRosa from the Indians for RP Chris Perez and a player to be named later.

Tony Cloninger
06-27-2009, 11:00 PM
They gave up what? Sounds like nada to me.

Blitz Dorsey
06-27-2009, 11:01 PM
Where is Jocketty on this? We couldn't have given up anything better than Perez and a BTBN?

(Or as Grande calls him, "Jockerty.")

TheNext44
06-27-2009, 11:02 PM
Chris Perez has closer stuff. He has failed a few times at holding down the closer role. He's a good young power arm. Also, depends on the PTBNL. Remember Owings was a PTBNL.

Tom Servo
06-27-2009, 11:04 PM
Good deal for St. Louis, although I don't think DeRosa is exactly the key to pushing a team over the top. Still it would have been nice to have him at 3B with Edwin out.

TheNext44
06-27-2009, 11:04 PM
The Reds really don't a have a young, major league ready arm that's as good as Perez right now. They have a few guys in the minors, but not on the 25 man roster.

HokieRed
06-27-2009, 11:06 PM
The Reds really don't a have a young, major league ready arm that's as good as Perez right now. They have a few guys in the minors, but not on the 25 man roster.

Agree. The Tribe is looking for a guy to contribute over the long run, not for a Stormy Weathers type (with accompanying salary). Our nearest equivalent would be Roenicke, and he's older and not nearly as accomplished as Perez. I like the deal for Cleveland.

Team Clark
06-27-2009, 11:07 PM
The Reds really don't a have a young, major league ready arm that's as good as Perez right now. They have a few guys in the minors, but not on the 25 man roster.

Agreed. The Reds would have to give up Burton if not more. If Roenicke were lights out I could see it but he's still unproven.

traderumor
06-27-2009, 11:09 PM
I am hoping this is plan B for a Holliday deal falling through, since apparently Perez was a principal in that rumor.

redsfan4445
06-27-2009, 11:19 PM
they get Holiday too im going to be ticked!! :(

Big Klu
06-27-2009, 11:27 PM
Well, that explains why he wasn't in the Tribe's lineup tonight.

CTA513
06-27-2009, 11:31 PM
The Indians get a good arm in return and it should also open up playing time for Matt LaPorta.

Big Klu
06-27-2009, 11:36 PM
they get Holiday too im going to be ticked!! :(

I was reading a Cardinals board, and the posters over there were nearly unanimous in not wanting Holliday. Evidently, the price was Ludwick, one of Motte, McClellan, or Perez, and a minor-league prospect.

RedEye
06-28-2009, 12:17 AM
The Indians get a good arm in return and it should also open up playing time for Matt LaPorta.

Hopefully LaPorta can do more with said playing time this go round. He killed my fantasy team for a few weeks during his last shot.

redsfandan
06-28-2009, 12:35 AM
I wonder if there's any chance that Perez will be with the Tribe for tomorrows game.

Benihana
06-28-2009, 12:56 AM
Agree. The Tribe is looking for a guy to contribute over the long run, not for a Stormy Weathers type (with accompanying salary). Our nearest equivalent would be Roenicke, and he's older and not nearly as accomplished as Perez. I like the deal for Cleveland.

Disagree. I think Burton fits the bill, and would have been enough to land DeRosa. That said, I'm glad the move wasn't made- I don't think DeRosa is what this team needs.

TheNext44
06-28-2009, 01:02 AM
Disagree. I think Burton fits the bill, and would have been enough to land DeRosa. That said, I'm glad the move wasn't made- I don't think DeRosa is what this team needs.

Burton 28 years old, 7.9 K/9

Perez 23 years old 9.9 K/9

I'd rather have Perez hands down.

And remember what we have no idea who the PTBNL is.


But I agree that DeRosa is not that helpful to this team, unless EE is done for the season. But EE's .979 OPS in AAA suggest otherwise.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2009, 01:06 AM
DeRosa is a solid - not great - player. Only twice has he posted an OPS over .800. He's not really a guy who will push a team over the top. This is a solid return for the Indians, IMO. Perez has a power arm and projects to be a future closer.

fearofpopvol1
06-28-2009, 02:06 AM
Great...DeRosa always kills the Reds.

Mario-Rijo
06-28-2009, 03:38 AM
I think it's a very solid acquisition for the Cardinals. He can play 3rd and gives them a little veteran pop and if Glaus were to return they could move Derosa to 2nd and return Schumaker to the OF shoring up their IF defense a little bit. Schumaker has been dreadful over there for them, allowing way too many hits thru that side. Granted that would mean Ludwick probably goes to the bench but between he and DeRosa there's not much current difference offensively and it helps their defense as I said.

reds44
06-28-2009, 04:58 AM
I don't think there's a chance in hell we could have gotten DeRosa for Burton.

lollipopcurve
06-28-2009, 08:35 AM
This will help the Cards this year, no doubt. Will be interesting to see if Milwaukee feels more pressure to go out and get someone now. I think the Central's a two-horse race between those two.

My guess is that the Cards are sacrificing a solid prospect as the PTBNL. Perez has solid stuff, but he seemed a little overamped to me, kind of a work in progress.

PuffyPig
06-28-2009, 08:50 AM
Disagree. I think Burton fits the bill, and would have been enough to land DeRosa.

Perez likely had twice the trade value of Burton right now. Burton is likely closer to the PTBNL. Apparently, the Tribe GM indicates the PTBNL is someone who is a real prospect.

Blitz Dorsey
06-28-2009, 09:45 AM
Not that I would want to get anywhere near trading him right now... but I wonder how Masset's value compares to that of Perez.

And I still can't believe we got Masset for a washed-up Griffey. Did that really happen?

alexad
06-28-2009, 12:01 PM
DeRosa is a minor pick up in my opinion. HE would not have been the answer for the Reds in the long haul this year. THere are much better players out there right now. Cardinals just traded for a name that has been on a lot of teams wish list. I think it shows there is not much of a market in return value right now. Holliday can be had for a lot less than what the A's are asking.

redsfan4445
06-28-2009, 12:32 PM
This will help the Cards this year, no doubt. Will be interesting to see if Milwaukee feels more pressure to go out and get someone now. I think the Central's a two-horse race between those two.

My guess is that the Cards are sacrificing a solid prospect as the PTBNL. Perez has solid stuff, but he seemed a little overamped to me, kind of a work in progress.

UMMM WHY Not what the REDS will do??? I am tired of every trade deadline tilme, we REDS fans have to watch other teams in our division do something to make a playoff run and the Reds are NEVER part of that?? The Reds are close, they need to do something to show the Reds fans they are "BUYERS" as Walt said.. LOSING SUCKS!!

HokieRed
06-28-2009, 02:10 PM
I don't think there's a chance in hell we could have gotten DeRosa for Burton.


Agree. No way we get Burton if the Cards are offering Perez. Maybe we should offer Burton to the Tribe for Perez. Think they'd be interested?

Tom Servo
06-28-2009, 02:12 PM
George Grande said that the Jocketty had an offer on the table for DeRosa, but obviously didn't say what it was.

BearcatShane
06-28-2009, 02:18 PM
Grande said it was rumored that Roenicke was involved in the potential deal.

bucksfan2
06-28-2009, 03:24 PM
DeRosa is a minor pick up in my opinion. HE would not have been the answer for the Reds in the long haul this year. THere are much better players out there right now. Cardinals just traded for a name that has been on a lot of teams wish list. I think it shows there is not much of a market in return value right now. Holliday can be had for a lot less than what the A's are asking.

A lot of time those minor moves put a given team over the top. Lets assume that the Reds had traded for DeRosa just after Edwin went on the DL. The Reds wouldn't have seen Rosales play so many games at 3b. It would have also helped at 1b when Votto missed some time. Its not always a blockbuster that puts a given team over the top.

OnBaseMachine
06-28-2009, 07:46 PM
Came down to Reds and Cards
Marty B. indicated he's told the DeRosa trade came down to Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro choosing the Cardinals deal over the Reds.

http://www.1530homer.com/pages/lancesBlog.html

lollipopcurve
06-28-2009, 08:57 PM
Came down to Reds and Cards
Marty B. indicated he's told the DeRosa trade came down to Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro choosing the Cardinals deal over the Reds.

On the telecast today, Grande said Shapiro had said the Reds were in the final 3. It was strongly suggested that Roenicke was in the Reds' offer.

Brutus
06-28-2009, 09:00 PM
On the telecast today, Grande said Shapiro had said the Reds were in the final 3. It was strongly suggested that Roenicke was in the Reds' offer.

Tom Hamilton was also talking about this on the Indians' radio broadcast today. Shapiro apparently said it was a tough decision but Perez's inclusion put the Cards over the top on the offer.

At least this proves the Reds truly want to be buyers, and are not just playing lip service.

Caveat Emperor
06-28-2009, 09:07 PM
At least this proves the Reds truly want to be buyers, and are not just playing lip service.

That's my hope as well.

As far as DeRosa goes, I'm not going to lose much sleep over the Reds failing to acquire him. He's still a below-average defensive player at 3B for his career (-7.7 UZR/150) -- not quite as bad as Edwin Encarnacion (-11.8 UZR/150), but still nothing to write home about. His bat is good, but ~.800 OPS isn't exactly holy-grail level difficulty when it comes to finding on the trade market.

Hopefully there will be other moves the Reds can be in on in the future that will offer better return.

dougdirt
06-29-2009, 01:00 AM
Heard from a Cards fan of mine that the PTBNL list includes Daryl Jones and Jess Todd. I REALLY don't like this for the Cardinals if I am a Cards fan at this point.

I am REALLY glad the Reds didn't match the Cards offer on this one.

TheNext44
06-29-2009, 01:24 AM
Heard from a Cards fan of mine that the PTBNL list includes Daryl Jones and Jess Todd. I REALLY don't like this for the Cardinals if I am a Cards fan at this point.

I am REALLY glad the Reds didn't match the Cards offer on this one.

Wow.

2008 Player and Pitcher of the Year for the Cards. #4 and 7 on BA Cards Top Ten Prospect list. Not that the lists are the same, but that would be Valaika and Soto on the Reds lists.

11larkin11
06-29-2009, 01:40 AM
Per the Sun Deck, FOX Sports repeating we really really wanted DeRosa. We're now targeting Ty Wigginton, and suggest we may be going after Juli Lugo, Josh Willingham, or Gary Matthews Jr.

fearofpopvol1
07-01-2009, 11:38 AM
Btw...DeRosa is hurt. Probably a good thing the Reds didn't do this deal.

TRF
07-01-2009, 11:43 AM
Per the Sun Deck, FOX Sports repeating we really really wanted DeRosa. We're now targeting Ty Wigginton, and suggest we may be going after Juli Lugo, Josh Willingham, or Gary Matthews Jr.

If the Reds get Matthews... no. I said the same thing about the signing a certain CF, and I stayed. The only player I even marginally like on that list is Willingham, and he has no position to play in Cincinnati.

HeatherC1212
07-01-2009, 11:53 AM
I REALLY don't want to see Julio Lugo with the Reds. I have friends who are RS fans and all I hear from them about him is how much he sucks both defensively and (usually) offensively. Willingham wouldn't be a horrible option but at this point in time, I'm not really sold on any of the players we're rumored to be interested in right now. :eek:

RichRed
07-01-2009, 12:55 PM
I can't for the life of me figure out how Matthews makes this team better. Can anyone still think that 2006 was the *real* Gary Matthews Jr.? And even if it was, the guy's going to be 35 in two months.

Bad idea jeans.

Blitz Dorsey
07-01-2009, 10:31 PM
Wigginton would be good IMO.

flyer85
07-01-2009, 10:51 PM
willingham is likely the only guy that would really help .

*BaseClogger*
07-01-2009, 11:46 PM
As far as DeRosa goes, I'm not going to lose much sleep over the Reds failing to acquire him. He's still a below-average defensive player at 3B for his career (-7.7 UZR/150) -- not quite as bad as Edwin Encarnacion (-11.8 UZR/150), but still nothing to write home about. His bat is good, but ~.800 OPS isn't exactly holy-grail level difficulty when it comes to finding on the trade market.

An older, more versatile EE who plays slightly better defense at 3B, but has less upside. Meh...

*BaseClogger*
07-01-2009, 11:47 PM
Wigginton would be good IMO.

Where do you want to play him?

Scrap Irony
07-02-2009, 03:01 AM
I could see Wiggie taking that whole super-sub thing from Hairston while he plays the majority of the games at SS. That's certainly not ideal (nor something I'd especially want), but it would probably perk up the offense some.

Matthews only makes sense if Taveras goes the other way as a throw-in and as a platoon partner to Dickerson in CF. And that only really makes sense if Hairston is the SS.

Lugo is the SS stop-gap, obviously, that allows Hairston to roam the field again. I think this would assume Gonzalez's injury is a season-ender and Wiggington isn't available.

Willingham is a corner OF bat with cheap production. He's almost purely cosmetic at this point, as the platoon of Gomes and Nix should outperform him. If, however, Jocketty is looking at restocking the bench, a trade here would do just that, providing two solid PH late (Nix and Gomes), one from each side.

None of these are ideal moves, of course. I'd love to see Jocketty and company grab a young SS (Wood) and/or corner OF (Dukes could be an absolute steal at this point, as could Young in Minnesota) for some prospect pyrite (Stubbs, perhaps Heisey, perhaps Wood, Maloney, and the AAA relief corps). But I don't think this GM is going to do that.

Ron Madden
07-02-2009, 03:25 AM
I'd stand pat before I'd trade talent and have to over pay for any option named in this thread.

lollipopcurve
07-02-2009, 08:24 AM
I'd love to see Jocketty and company grab a young SS (Wood) and/or corner OF (Dukes could be an absolute steal at this point, as could Young in Minnesota) for some prospect pyrite (Stubbs, perhaps Heisey, perhaps Wood, Maloney, and the AAA relief corps).

You may have confused your prospects and your pyrite.

pahster
07-02-2009, 09:20 AM
Gary Matthews Jr. only makes sense as an acquisition in some kind of bizarro world in which old, talentless, and expensive outfielders are are a valuable commodity.

Scrap Irony
07-02-2009, 11:23 AM
Grab Matthews to get rid of Taveras? I'd do it, assuming the Angels even up the contracts. Are you telling me you wouldn't?

And perhaps I would deal away a prospect or two with a future. That list was only who I think wold both garner attention from other GMs and who is available/ unlikely to be used much by Cincinnati.

TRF
07-02-2009, 11:30 AM
Grab Matthews to get rid of Taveras? I'd do it, assuming the Angels even up the contracts. Are you telling me you wouldn't?

And perhaps I would deal away a prospect or two with a future. That list was only who I think wold both garner attention from other GMs and who is available/ unlikely to be used much by Cincinnati.

I am telling you trading crap for more expensive crap I would not do. A CF upgrade is as simple as DFA'ing Taveras and putting CD there full time.

the big bat the Reds need is not in LF, it's at 3B. The myth of the Reds having a weak offense in 2009 is just that... myth. A healthy roster, with EE at 3B and Votto at 1B is just fine. the problem is EE hasn't been healthy and the bench, particularly the IF bench has been atrocious. Yo cannot field a team with WT in CF, Janish/Hairston at SS and Rosales at 3B. Not and expect wins from the offense.

But that offense can win games with a healthy EE at 3B, Janish/Hairston at SS and batting 8th and CD leading off and playing CF.

I firmly believe if the Reds had CD in CF the whole year and EE healthy, they'd be leading the division by 5 games.

flyer85
07-02-2009, 11:31 AM
I am telling you trading crap for more expensive crap I would not do. A CF upgrade is as simple as DFA'ing Taveras and putting CD there full time.
someone needs to start a "Free Willy" campaign. The phrase could have numerous meanings

pahster
07-02-2009, 11:37 AM
Grab Matthews to get rid of Taveras? I'd do it, assuming the Angels even up the contracts. Are you telling me you wouldn't?


That would be an awful move by the Reds. As bad as Taveras is, he's only signed for one more year for something like $3 million. Matthews Jr. is a worse player, much older, and signed a 5 year $50 million deal in 2006. At least Taveras can provide league average defense in CF and can run the bases. What can Matthews Jr. do besides collect Social Security checks?

Chip R
07-02-2009, 11:19 PM
What can Matthews Jr. do besides collect Social Security checks?


Steal home. Considering this team's lack of ability of getting runners home, that could be a good talent. ;)

Ron Madden
07-03-2009, 03:19 AM
I want a front office that stays real far away from guys like Taveras and an old Gary Mathews Jr.

Is that really asking for much?

:(

Benihana
07-07-2009, 02:47 PM
DeRosa to the DL. That didn't take very long...

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/commishs-hot-stove/commishs-hot-stove/2009/07/derosa-headed-to-dl/

traderumor
07-07-2009, 03:02 PM
Imagine the length of the thread if we had won the DeRosa sweepstakes :D

OnBaseMachine
07-26-2009, 06:10 PM
Indians Acquire Jess Todd To Complete DeRosa Deal
By Steve Adams [July 26 at 4:44pm CST]

Derrick Goold reports, via Twitter, that the Indians have acquired Jess Todd as the player to be named later from the Mark DeRosa trade.

According to an official press release, Todd will be added to the 40-man roster and report to Triple-A Columbus.

Todd, 23, entered the season as the Cardinals' #4 prospect. He's pitched very well, posting a 2.20 ERA through 49 innings, allowing just 39 hits and 13 walks while striking out 59 and collecting 24 saves. Opponents are hitting just .214 against Todd this season.

The Indians also acquired Chris Perez in the original trade, back on June 27th.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Scrap Irony
07-26-2009, 06:14 PM
Looks like a decent deal for the Indians, assuming Todd is anything at all.

Stormy
07-26-2009, 07:59 PM
I am telling you trading crap for more expensive crap I would not do. A CF upgrade is as simple as DFA'ing Taveras and putting CD there full time.

the big bat the Reds need is not in LF, it's at 3B. The myth of the Reds having a weak offense in 2009 is just that... myth. A healthy roster, with EE at 3B and Votto at 1B is just fine. the problem is EE hasn't been healthy and the bench, particularly the IF bench has been atrocious. Yo cannot field a team with WT in CF, Janish/Hairston at SS and Rosales at 3B. Not and expect wins from the offense.

But that offense can win games with a healthy EE at 3B, Janish/Hairston at SS and batting 8th and CD leading off and playing CF.

I firmly believe if the Reds had CD in CF the whole year and EE healthy, they'd be leading the division by 5 games.

What????? Look, I'm with you that Dusty Baker is a terrible tactician, and it costs us runs and games. I also believe that proper lineup structure would have boosted this team's offense to a certain degree. However, no assemblage of this current offense is going to be anything other than way below league average. This may be the worst offense in baseball, and no amount of rearranging the cast is going to change that. This team needs a MAJOR upgrade in LF, ideally a legit SS who also has some pop, and a platoon partner for Dickerson in CF. At least 2 of those 3 need to be impact additions, and need to come from outside the organization.

redsfandan
07-26-2009, 10:32 PM
What????? Look, I'm with you that Dusty Baker is a terrible tactician, and it costs us runs and games. I also believe that proper lineup structure would have boosted this team's offense to a certain degree. However, no assemblage of this current offense is going to be anything other than way below league average. This may be the worst offense in baseball, and no amount of rearranging the cast is going to change that. This team needs a MAJOR upgrade in LF, ideally a legit SS who also has some pop, and a platoon partner for Dickerson in CF. At least 2 of those 3 need to be impact additions, and need to come from outside the organization.
I think the point that TRF was trying to touch on is that the Reds have had a ton of bad luck this season and if things had been different who knows. We've had:

subpar offense at 1st for a full month,
subpar offense at 3rd for 2 1/2 months,
Taveras already at 325 abs when he shouldn't have anything close to that many,
and now we have Bruce and possibly Dickerson out for most of the rest of the season.

This team couldn't afford to have so many key players miss so much time. We didn't have really any offense from ss and thanks to missed time we didn't have much from a few other positions either. In fact, the Reds are now 26th in team slg % because everyone we have with any power has missed time except for Phillips. We've had at least parts of the season without power from catcher, 1st, short, 3rd, center, and right. How can any team compete without power from so many positions? You can compete with subpar power from a couple positions but not THAT many. (Keep in mind this doesn't include the problems with the rotation like missing our ace from last year for most of the season.)

In THIS division we'd still be in the hunt without so much missed time to those key players.