PDA

View Full Version : Trades to Consider



Benihana
06-30-2009, 11:09 AM
Here are six trades worthy of serious consideration for both the Reds and their counterparties:

1. Braves Trade: Yunel Escobar SS
Reds Trade: Johnny Gomes OF, Zack Cozart SS, Chris Heisey OR Drew Stubbs CF

Here's why: Reds need a young SS for this year and beyond. Escobar's glove is above average and he has shown the potential to OPS > .750. The Braves have soured on Escobar's attitude as evidenced by his recent benching. They are also in the market for a cheap and productive (but not neccessarily young) OF bat- Gomes has been great this year. Meanwhile they get a future replacement for Escobar in Cozart and a top CF prospect to team with Jason Heyward.

2. A's Trade: Matt Holliday OF
Reds Trade: Edwin Encarnacion 3B, Pedro Viola LHP, Sean Henry OF

Here's why: Holliday in GAB could potentially push the Reds into contention. At year end, he either accepts arbitration (unlikely) and the Reds get a RH-cleanup hitter to hold down LF until Milledge or Alonso is ready for a full-time gig, or (more likely) he turns it down and the Reds get two high draft picks. The A's are presumably looking to get FA-to-be Holliday off their books. They also need a 3B for now and beyond after the demise of Eric Chavez. EE is signed cheaply for the next couple years, and the Reds could sign Julio Lugo for the league minimum to leadoff and improve the defense at 3B until Todd Frazier is ready to take over full-time next year. If Bill Bray can return healthy, Danny Ray Herrera continues to perform, and Alexander Smit continues his ascent, the loss of Viola is manageable. Henry is expendable, especially after...

3. Nationals Trade: Lastings Milledge OF and Elijah Dukes OF
Reds Trade: Matt Maloney LHP, Daryl Thompson RHP and Jerry Hairston, Jr. CF

Here's why: From all published reports, the Nats have had enough of the highly talented yet highly volatile young outfielders and are looking to shed them as soon as possible. They are looking for a speedy, defensive CF and young pitching. The Reds clear Hairston off the books and send Maloney and Thompson somewhere where they can get a real shot in the rotation. Milledge and Dukes still have tremendous upside and would be great defensive left fielders. I'd send Milledge to AAA to regain confidence in his stroke, and let Dukes spell Jay Bruce against lefties for the rest of the year. I would bet that at least one of Dukes/Milledge ends up being at least an above average player, and could man LF in GAB for years to come. While skeptics cite that this would be their third organization, I would point them to the example of the once-disgruntled bust Brandon Phillips (and Carlos Pena, and Adrian Gonzalez, etc.)

4. Pirates Trade: Ian Snell RHP
Reds Trade: Ramon Ramirez RHP and either Drew Sutton OR Adam Rosales INF

Here's why: When the GM publicly states (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/huntington-snell-deal-a-mistake.html)that it was a mistake to sign you, you're days are probably numbered in the organization. This might be a gamble for the Reds considering the costs (Snell is owed $3MM this year and $4.2MM in 2010, with club options for ’11 and ’12), but it may be one worth taking. Snell struckout 17 in his first AAA outing since being demoted. I believe Snell really needs a change of scenery, and could be at worst a dominant (but slightly overpriced) arm in the 'pen as many scouts have long projected, or at best regain his #3 starter form. More realistically, he could be somewhere in between, and a better fifth starter option than Micah Owings, allowing Owings to dominate out of the ‘pen. The Pirates have acknowledged they are now willing to move Snell for just about anything.


5. Phillies Trade: Michael Taylor OF and J.A.Happ LHP
Reds Trade: Bronson Arroyo RHP and Juan Francisco 3B

Here’s Why: This is an either/or type situation. If the Reds make the Holliday deal, there is no sense in trading Arroyo. However, if they do not make the Holliday deal and fall out of contention over the next four weeks, this is a trade they should definitely make. This deal would also be redundant with the Nationals trade, as there is no reason to acquire yet another potential LF if the club already has Milledge and Dukes in the fold. Assuming they don’t, Taylor becomes the RH power hitting LF of the future, with a major league ETA sometime in 2010. Happ is a nice-looking young lefty who could immediately replace Arroyo in the rotation, and hold down a spot for a few years to come. For those of you who are skeptical as to whether or not Philly would be willing to trade these guys, I would refer you to here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76743)and here (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090629&content_id=5599448&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi&partnerId=rss_phi). With Encarnacion (and Frazier) still in the organization, there is no place for Francisco who has tantalized with his power but frustrated with his plate discipline. He is the quintessential high-risk, high-reward prospect, but he is probably 3rd or 4th on the organizational depth chart. Dealing Arroyo has been discussed ad nauseum on other threads, but if the Reds drop out of contention this year, I think it’s a must-do. With some of the other deals, the Reds would now have Cueto, Volquez, Harang, Bailey, Snell, Owings, and the youngsters (Stewart, Wood and Leake) all vying for spots in the rotation. They could take some of the money saved on Arroyo and use it towards…

6. Reds Trade: Willy Taveras CF
Blue Jays Trade: Alex Rios RF

Here’s Why: Likely to be the most controversial of the proposed trades as it has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads, Alex Rios is on the chopping block. This article (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/baseball/jays-may-finally-act-on-slumping-stars/article1200104/)points out that the Jays are about ready to give him away to anyone who will assume the $60MM owed to him over the next five years. While this is a mammoth risk that a team like the Reds will probably not be willing to take, there is some upside: Rios has had great success in the majors at a young age, is entering his prime years and plays some of the best OF defense in the league. While his production has fallen off in the last year or two, his speed, defense, and RH bat would fit in well with Jocketty’s plan, and if he recovers some of his power in GAB he could be worth his contract. Bruce would immediately shift to LF, giving the Reds the best OF defense in baseball. If Rios and Taylor both play up to their potential, you can package either one of them and/or one of the young CF for an upgrade at C. Once you go beyond Louisville, there doesn’t appear to be much OF help in the system until you get to the GCL, so it would be nice to lock in an OF for the next few years. Meanwhile, although it is miniscule in comparison to Rios’ behemoth of a contract, the Reds get to dump a player who is not worth his roster spot, let alone his contract.

Obviously some of these trades could become redundant (the Reds would acquire four young corner OFers if they did all of these moves). However each one involves trading away different pieces that I feel are expendable for some of the reasons mentioned above. All of the potential targets are readily available according to most published reports (with the possible exception of Escobar.) As far as I can tell, most of the proposals address the primary needs that the counterparties seem to be seeking. What do you think? Which of these moves make the most sense?

Homer Bailey
06-30-2009, 11:11 AM
I don't think any of those 6 teams would accept those deals.

And I want absolutely nothing to do with Alex Rios.

_Sir_Charles_
06-30-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't think any of those 6 teams would accept those deals.

And I want absolutely nothing to do with Alex Rios.

I agree with that first sentence. And while I don't care much for Rios, a straight up deal for Taveras? Yeah, I'd do THAT in a split second. And I'm not a Willy-hater. :O)

Homer Bailey
06-30-2009, 12:05 PM
I agree with that first sentence. And while I don't care much for Rios, a straight up deal for Taveras? Yeah, I'd do THAT in a split second. And I'm not a Willy-hater. :O)

I will not ever condone paying $60M+ for Rios. I'm not swapping one mistake for an even bigger one.

corkedbat
06-30-2009, 12:06 PM
None of those deals are doable without at least one (or more) decent piece from us. I'd say there's a possibility of doing the deal with Philly if you add a young arm or you replace Arroyo with Harang (I'd do that deal too). Taylor or Nelson Cruz are the kinds of guys I'd target for LF though.

Benihana
06-30-2009, 02:33 PM
None of those deals are doable without at least one (or more) decent piece from us. I'd say there's a possibility of doing the deal with Philly if you add a young arm or you replace Arroyo with Harang (I'd do that deal too). Taylor or Nelson Cruz are the kinds of guys I'd target for LF though.

I would add a young arm not named Bailey, Stewart or Wood to get the Philly deal done, especially if Happ were coming back.

It looks like the Milledge-for-Morgan (http://mlbtraderumors.com)swap with Pittsburgh is going through, so that takes that deal off the table. Olney's latest (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fname%3dolney_buster)article implies the Reds are severely cash-constrained, so I think you can forget about Holliday, Rios (and maybe Snell) as well. So that leaves the following two possibilities:

Atlanta trades: Yunel Escobar
Reds Trade: Johnny Gomes, Zach Cozart, & Stubbs/Heisey

as well as

Philadelphia trades: Michael Taylor & JA Happ
Reds Trade: Bronson Arroyo, Juan Francisco, & Smith/Avery/LeCure/Thompson?

I'll add one more:

7. Minnesota Trades: Delmon Young
Reds Trade: Drew Stubbs OR Chris Heisey

Here's Why: Similar to the Nationals deal, the Reds trade from a strength (CF) to address a weakness (RH-hitting LF.) Young has reportedly been shopped for a couple months now as the Twins have grown tired of him. Much like Milledge and Dukes, however, he has a ton of potential and is still a year younger than both Heisey and Stubbs.

TRF
06-30-2009, 03:43 PM
#3 and #5.

no way this happens. ever. NO TEAM is that stupid.

Benihana
06-30-2009, 03:48 PM
#3 and #5.

no way this happens. ever. NO TEAM is that stupid.

I disagree. Washington is looking to dump the two malcontents. Neither has proved much in the majors, much like Brandon Phillips at the time he was traded from Cleveland. Look at what he fetched- a PTBNL. Washington might get a little bit more for these two if packaged together, and I would be willing to part with more. My point is, these types of deals are ones that Walt should be looking at, NOT bringing on board some shloaf like Gary Matthews Jr.

Philly is desperate for pitching. While it might be a stretch to get Happ in the deal as well, Michael Taylor is readily available for a veteran starter. It's too bad Walt and Cast are disillusioned by the thought of contention (yet will not commit the capital needed to compete) and could miss out on this opportunity to improve the team in the long run.

OnBaseMachine
06-30-2009, 04:01 PM
Speaking of trades, the Pirates have traded Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett to the Nationals for Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/pirates-nats-close-to-swapping-morgan-milledge.html

Good deal for the Pirates, IMO.

Benihana
06-30-2009, 04:02 PM
#3 and #5.

no way this happens. ever. NO TEAM is that stupid.

BTW, the Nats just traded Milledge and their closer (Joel Hanrahan) for Nyjer Morgan, a poor man's version of Laynce Nix. There is no reason the Reds couldn't have made that deal. :rolleyes:

EDIT: OBM beat me to it.

Homer Bailey
06-30-2009, 04:05 PM
Laynce Nix > Lastings Milledge.

Maybe not more trade value, but more value for this season for sure.

Benihana
06-30-2009, 04:07 PM
Laynce Nix > Lastings Milledge.

Maybe not more trade value, but more value for this season for sure.

That's kind of the point. Dukes = Nix for this season, and Dukes/Milledge >>>>>> Nix beyond this year.

TRF
06-30-2009, 04:15 PM
Milledge sure, but Dukes will fetch a lot more. Tons more upside. Milledge is a vast sea of suck.

Dukes I agree is greater than Nix beyond this year, but Milledge simply has no discernible baseball talent.

flyer85
06-30-2009, 04:16 PM
Actually I like the Nats end of this deal. IMO, Milledge was simply another overhyped NY prospect (which is the majority of them).

11larkin11
06-30-2009, 04:20 PM
BTW, the Nats just traded Milledge and their closer (Joel Hanrahan) for Nyjer Morgan, a poor man's version of Laynce Nix. There is no reason the Reds couldn't have made that deal. :rolleyes:

EDIT: OBM beat me to it.

Actually, McDougal is their closer now

Homer Bailey
06-30-2009, 04:21 PM
That's kind of the point. Dukes = Nix for this season, and Dukes/Milledge >>>>>> Nix beyond this year.

I'm saying trading Nix for Milledge would not make any sense for this team right now.

TRF
06-30-2009, 04:22 PM
Speaking of trades, the Pirates have traded Nyjer Morgan and Sean Burnett to the Nationals for Lastings Milledge and Joel Hanrahan.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/06/pirates-nats-close-to-swapping-morgan-milledge.html

Good deal for the Pirates, IMO.

Better deal for the Nats. Burnett is far better than Hanrahan, and if Morgan flops as the new leadoff hitter, it just frees up room in the OF a bit. I see the OF as Dunn, Dukes, Willingham with Morgan as the 4th OF.

Washington just unloaded an ineffective pitcher and a CF that can't hit or field for a setup guy with a 1.14 WHIP and a 4th OF.

It's like they have a GM for a change.

I guess I take it back. Pittsburgh is stupid enough to overpay for Milledge and Hanrahan.

hmph. The Reds should have found a way to trade them Mike Lincoln and Willy Taveras for Morgan and Burnett.

bucksfan2
06-30-2009, 04:33 PM
Better deal for the Nats. Burnett is far better than Hanrahan, and if Morgan flops as the new leadoff hitter, it just frees up room in the OF a bit. I see the OF as Dunn, Dukes, Willingham with Morgan as the 4th OF.

Washington just unloaded an ineffective pitcher and a CF that can't hit or field for a setup guy with a 1.14 WHIP and a 4th OF.

It's like they have a GM for a change.

Good deal for the Reds. It just may be perception but I hated Morgan when he was on the Pirates. He just seemed to be a pest on the plate and always finding his way to first base.

Brutus
06-30-2009, 04:42 PM
I voted for the Escobar trade, mainly because I felt it was more realistic an option than the Rios-Taveras trade. If the Blue Jays were ever stupid enough to consider that deal, you bet that would be my first choice.

Benihana
06-30-2009, 04:46 PM
I voted for the Escobar trade, mainly because I felt it was more realistic an option than the Rios-Taveras trade. If the Blue Jays were ever stupid enough to consider that deal, you bet that would be my first choice.

You never know. I don't think there are many teams that are willing to take on Rios right now with that contract. It's obviously a straight salary dump on the Jays part, but that may be what they end up doing with Rios.

Benihana
06-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Milledge sure, but Dukes will fetch a lot more. Tons more upside. Milledge is a vast sea of suck.

Dukes I agree is greater than Nix beyond this year, but Milledge simply has no discernible baseball talent.

Disagree that Milledge is not worth taking a flyer on at this point, especially if all it would have cost is someone like Laynce Nix. The guy is over a year younger than Stubbs and Heisey (who many on this board are drooling over) and has two seasons of OPSing > .730 at the MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL under his belt. Like many faded hitting prospects that become late bloomers, he was overpromoted early- reaching the majors at age 21 (sound familiar?) Also worth noting is that as a former top pick, you know he has the tools.

Other players who fall into this category include...

Brandon Phillips
Adrian Gonzalez
Carlos Pena
Jorge Cantu
Jose Guillen
Johnny Gomes
Laynce Nix
Delmon Young and Elijah Dukes (will be joining soon)

the list goes on and on and on...

I would still like to get Dukes (or Young), as I believe they are also readily available.

TheNext44
06-30-2009, 06:07 PM
Concerning the Holliday trade for EE, Dickerson and Viola that has been hinted at other threads:

I like that trade, and hope the Reds can pull it off.

I've stated before that I think EE needs to learn to play defense to play everyday. So losing him is no great loss in my book. If you move him to LF, he's below league average offensively, and who knows how he will handle it defensively.

Dickerson is a nice player, but CF is the Reds deepest position organizationally, so he won't be missed that much.

Viola, again seems like a good prospect, but Herrera makes him expendable.

I know people wonder if Holliday will produce better than Nix/Gomes, but realize that Holliday everyday in LF, gives the Reds a great bench. Holliday with Nix and Gomes as the LH and RH bats off the bench is worth a lot more than Nix/Gomes and Richar off the bench.

I also love the idea of having a true cleanup hitter. Call me overly romantic, but I think it's essential for a contending team to have one.

flyer85
06-30-2009, 06:08 PM
If the Blue Jays were ever stupid enough to consider that deal, you bet that would be my first choice.The Blue Jays would do it in a heartbeat to get, they'd probably throw in Wells if the Reds wanted.

jojo
06-30-2009, 06:13 PM
Good deal for the Reds. It just may be perception but I hated Morgan when he was on the Pirates. He just seemed to be a pest on the plate and always finding his way to first base.

He's kind of the guy the Reds thought they could coach up Taveras to be....

Mario-Rijo
06-30-2009, 06:28 PM
From Olney's blog...


Red smoke signals

The Reds have been fishing around for a right-handed hitter for weeks, and they continue to look around, rival executives say. But they also are sending signals they don't have a lot of money with which to make a deal, which leaves them in a bind. They could try to make a dollar-for-dollar trade -- trading one player for another player with a similar salary -- but it might be difficult for them to actually upgrade their lineup that way. They could ask other teams to absorb some salary of a player like Jermaine Dye or Matt Holliday, but that would require the Reds to give up a larger package of young talent, something they're reluctant to do. No, in the end, the Reds probably will be left with the choice of busting their budget to take a chance on someone like Dye or Holliday, or making marginal upgrades.

The Reds are definitely looking, writes John Fay. Paul Daugherty wonders whether the Reds can be bold. As Fay mentions, Josh Willingham makes sense for the Reds, but he makes sense for a lot of other teams as well, including the Mets.

Benihana
06-30-2009, 06:31 PM
From Olney's blog...

This is the Olney blog that I was referring to in the post earlier in this thread.

Mario-Rijo
06-30-2009, 06:32 PM
This is the Olney blog that I was referring to in the post earlier in this thread.

Yeah thanks for the link.

tripleaaaron
06-30-2009, 06:36 PM
I don't think any of those 6 teams would accept those deals.

And I want absolutely nothing to do with Alex Rios.

Even straight up for tavares. U are nuts. If that deal were even remotely possible I would be all over it. Trading a guy who shouldn't be a starter for an average starter is a no-brainer.

Homer Bailey
06-30-2009, 06:37 PM
Even straight up for tavares. U are nuts. If that deal were even remotely possible I would be all over it. Trading a guy who shouldn't be a starter for an average starter is a no-brainer.

$60 million dollars. Sixty. Guaranteed. There is no why I would ever condone paying a poor mans Reggie Sanders $60 million dollars.

Mario-Rijo
06-30-2009, 08:25 PM
Walts a genuis I gotta give it to him he will talk like a potential trade is in the offing and get us to stay tuned and then whammo, no deal. He never commits fully but just enough to keep you thinking he is serious about it. Guy is a heck of a PR type GM. Who doubts we could have outbid St. Louis for DeRosa and judging from all the suitors we were probably given the opportunity to do so.


TRADES: Reds look for bat
The Reds are still looking to add a bat to their lineup and the Cincinnati Enquirer lists Washington's Josh Willingham and Baltimore's Ty Wigginton as affordable candidates.

The fact that the Reds tried to get DeRosa, who makes $5.5 million, tells you they can add some payroll. "We're definitely still looking," general manager Walt Jocketty said.

But some veteran hitters who are reportedly available -- Gary Matthews Jr., Matt Holliday, Vernon Wells and Alex Rios -- make more than DeRosa. Willingham and Wigginton would be more reasonable alternatives.

savafan
06-30-2009, 09:58 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/angels_blog/2009/06/report-angels-rebuffed-in-attempts-to-acquire-dan-haren.html

Looks like the Angels are trying to get Dan Haren. He's someone I'd love to have to bolster the rotation. I'm not as confident in our rotation now as I was earlier in the year. Harang and Arroyo haven't looked good at all lately, and Owings is starting to remind me of Eric Milton. Bailey is still a question mark, and we don't know when Volquez will return or how he'll pitch when he does.

HokieRed
06-30-2009, 11:33 PM
Four ideas/opinions.
1. No way Philly does the deal mentioned. Happ is better than Arroyo, Taylor is better than Francisco. I doubt there ever was much chance to move Arroyo, with his ridiculous contract, but it should be obvious that there no longer is any.
2. Why would Billy Beane take on EE at 5 million plus plus Viola and Dickerson for Holliday. I think he'd respond to that offer by saying he can get more out of the compensatory picks, easily.
3. The Nats-Pirates trade looks very good for the Nats to me. I don't see why we think the Nats would be interested in Nix; they've already got an abundance of corner guys, they are looking for a true Cf not named Milledge.
4. I'm curious as to what proponents of a DeRosa deal would have given up for him. Looks to me like the Cardinals have actually paid pretty much. Burton or Roenicke were not going to get the deal done with St. Louis offering Perez and a player to be named.

*BaseClogger*
07-01-2009, 02:01 AM
1. Upon further thought, I should have voted 'Yes' on this one. Yunel Escobar isn't my dream choice for SS, but he is a lot better than our current options. Your proposal doesn't involve us giving up any long-term pieces who are untouchable, and Escobar can help us for a couple of more years.

2. No. Holliday is a rental. EE still has more years left on his contract. We need EE for 3B this year. Plus, you have us giving up some more pieces.

3. Our OF has plenty of depth now, and I like Maloney and Hairston right now. We just don't have room for these guys.

4. I actually would do this, with the implication we trade Arroyo afterwards. Snell isn't all that expensive and I wouldn't lose sleep over giving up Ramirez and a utility guy.

5. No doubt. It's too obvious.

6. This comes down to "would you sign Rios as a FA for his current contract?" because obviously unloading Taveras is worthwhile. Personally, I would but this arguement has played out before.

Will M
07-01-2009, 02:21 AM
I persoanlly feel that the Reds are pretty generic this year. Similar to 2006 we are being told the team is a contender when they are really a .500 team.
i want them to sell not buy. the future looks bright. lets not trade away talent from the organization on the idea that we can make the playoffs. even if we could so what? i want the Reds to build a team that contends for a playoff spot (and potentially a world series) on a yearly basis. making the playoffs once every 10 years is hardly a worthwhile goal.

Homer Bailey
07-01-2009, 02:26 AM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/angels_blog/2009/06/report-angels-rebuffed-in-attempts-to-acquire-dan-haren.html

Looks like the Angels are trying to get Dan Haren. He's someone I'd love to have to bolster the rotation. I'm not as confident in our rotation now as I was earlier in the year. Harang and Arroyo haven't looked good at all lately, and Owings is starting to remind me of Eric Milton. Bailey is still a question mark, and we don't know when Volquez will return or how he'll pitch when he does.

Micah Owings, the PTBNL in the Dunn trade last August, he of the minimum salary for a MLB player, he of the ERA of 4.63 and the best Reds pitcher over the last month, is reminding you of the worst free agent signing in Reds history? Have you watched the Reds lately?

schroomytunes
07-01-2009, 04:51 AM
I dont think any of the above trades would ever happen, they seem to be too lopsided favoring the Reds, and we are not involving prospects that other teams covet. With that in mind here are some trades that may work to benefit both teams involved:

1) Reds-Washington:
---The Reds trade Matt Maloney and Chris Dickerson to the Nats, with the Nationals sending Josh Willingham and a low A prospect.

2) Reds-A's:
---the Reds will have to fork over huge here so Stubbs, Roenicke,and Dickerson head to Oakland for Matt Holliday. IMO too much to give up with Holliday a FA at end of year.

3) Reds-Arizona:
---the Reds trade Matt Maloney and Pedro Viola for Felipe Lopez. Lopez is a FA at end of the year, so he takes over at short giving us the #2 hitter in the lineup, while Arizona gets MLB ready prospects.

4) Reds-Braves:
---the Reds trade Carlos Fisher, Chris Heisey, Chris Valaika, and Jonny Gomes to the Braves for Yunel Escobar and Jeff Francoeur. Escobar starts at SS, with Francouer maybe a change of scenery helps if not he platoons with Nix. While the Braves get solid prospects in return.

of all the above I like #1 the best

redsfandan
07-01-2009, 07:28 AM
There's quite a few things in this thread I could comment on but I'm not gonna. Except for one. This is the best thing I've read:
... i want the Reds to build a team that contends for a playoff spot (and potentially a world series) on a yearly basis. making the playoffs once every 10 years is hardly a worthwhile goal.

savafan
07-01-2009, 08:18 AM
Micah Owings, the PTBNL in the Dunn trade last August, he of the minimum salary for a MLB player, he of the ERA of 4.63 and the best Reds pitcher over the last month, is reminding you of the worst free agent signing in Reds history? Have you watched the Reds lately?

Yeah. I'm not looking at the numbers, and I stand by what I said.

Benihana
07-01-2009, 11:43 AM
Does EE qualify as a "good hitter"?

www.mlbtraderumors.com

If so, maybe he and a prospect could fetch Escobar? Now that would be a great trade.

Mario-Rijo
07-01-2009, 01:55 PM
Four ideas/opinions.
1. No way Philly does the deal mentioned. Happ is better than Arroyo, Taylor is better than Francisco. I doubt there ever was much chance to move Arroyo, with his ridiculous contract, but it should be obvious that there no longer is any.
2. Why would Billy Beane take on EE at 5 million plus plus Viola and Dickerson for Holliday. I think he'd respond to that offer by saying he can get more out of the compensatory picks, easily.
3. The Nats-Pirates trade looks very good for the Nats to me. I don't see why we think the Nats would be interested in Nix; they've already got an abundance of corner guys, they are looking for a true Cf not named Milledge.
4. I'm curious as to what proponents of a DeRosa deal would have given up for him. Looks to me like the Cardinals have actually paid pretty much. Burton or Roenicke were not going to get the deal done with St. Louis offering Perez and a player to be named.

I'd disagree with that, I'd feel like we were getting robbed if we had to give up anything close to that.

Benihana
07-01-2009, 02:11 PM
Milledge sure, but Dukes will fetch a lot more. Tons more upside. Milledge is a vast sea of suck.

Dukes I agree is greater than Nix beyond this year, but Milledge simply has no discernible baseball talent.

Milledge was traded yesterday and Dukes just got optioned to AAA today. The Reds could have easily made a move, and I think they still should to get Dukes. I bet Maloney by himself would do it.

Benihana
07-01-2009, 02:13 PM
I'd disagree with that, I'd feel like we were getting robbed if we had to give up anything close to that.

Usually the mark of a "fair" trade is where half the people think one side is getting hosed and the other half think the opposite. Much like the Nats-Pirates trade yesterday, the EE-Holliday swap looks to be a fair one for both sides. Not saying it will (or even necessarily should) happen, but I am pointing out that it's a very reasonable proposal.

jojo
07-01-2009, 02:37 PM
4) Reds-Braves:
---the Reds trade Carlos Fisher, Chris Heisey, Chris Valaika, and Jonny Gomes to the Braves for Yunel Escobar and Jeff Francoeur. Escobar starts at SS, with Francouer maybe a change of scenery helps if not he platoons with Nix. While the Braves get solid prospects in return.

of all the above I like #1 the best

Doesn't Schafer make Heisey redundant? Also, I'm not sure why the Braves would covet Gomes all of a sudden. I'm also not sure that the Braves would be inclined to deal their above average starting shortstop for depth in their farm when they probably feel that they know a few things about home cooking themselves.

Homer Bailey
07-01-2009, 06:28 PM
Dukes was demoted to AAA today.

http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Nats-GM-We-are-open-for-business-?urn=fantasy,174078


Edit: Late to the party....

savafan
07-01-2009, 06:30 PM
Milledge was traded yesterday and Dukes just got optioned to AAA today. The Reds could have easily made a move, and I think they still should to get Dukes. I bet Maloney by himself would do it.

Dukes could probably be had for less than Maloney, and I'd jump all over it.

Will M
07-01-2009, 07:12 PM
looking at the Reds and their AAA/AA teams it seems to me that we have relievers to spare. Burton just went to AAA despite an ERA+ of 96 (and he has been pitching well of late). seems like on of Weathers, Massett, Burton, Fischer or Roenicke could go to fill a need elsewhere. keep 4 of these 5 plus Cordero, Rhodes & Herrara for the pen.

as other have mentioned the Reds could move either Stubbs or Heissey.

if the Reds wanted to pull off a big trade what could we get for the following?:
1. one of the above 5 relievers
2. Stubbs or Heissey
3. a 2nd prospect (grade 'B' type prospect)

Benihana
07-01-2009, 07:25 PM
looking at the Reds and their AAA/AA teams it seems to me that we have relievers to spare. Burton just went to AAA despite an ERA+ of 96 (and he has been pitching well of late). seems like on of Weathers, Massett, Burton, Fischer or Roenicke could go to fill a need elsewhere. keep 4 of these 5 plus Cordero, Rhodes & Herrara for the pen.

as other have mentioned the Reds could move either Stubbs or Heissey.

if the Reds wanted to pull off a big trade what could we get for the following?:
1. one of the above 5 relievers
2. Stubbs or Heissey
3. a 2nd prospect (grade 'B' type prospect)

There is a severe problem with this type of thinking, and it is exactly what hampers the realistic nature of most posts/hypothetical trades.

You can't think of what packaging all of your excess parts may get you in a trade, because trades have a counter-party. By that, I mean you have to look at a specific team, gauge their needs, and craft a package that might fit them, not one that just fits us.

For instance, a team like the Twins may really have a need for one of the relievers you mentioned. However due to the presence of guys like Carlos Gomez, Denard Span, Ben Revere et. al, they may have very little use for a guy like Chris Heisey/Drew Stubbs. Likewise, with their recent draft hauls, the A's probably aren't in the market for a middle infield prospect, and thus trade proposals to them should be thought out accordingly.

Not trying to attack you specifically, as I think you can look at the spare parts we have and possibly try to sell them by piece-meal. However, it is usually an exercise in futility if you group all of a team's excess parts together (especially when they're minor leaguers or fringe major leaguers) and see what you could hypothetically get for them.

Benihana
07-01-2009, 07:27 PM
As an interesting aside for all of you who claimed that these proposed trades were lopsided in the Reds favor, only one of them (Rios/Taveras) even netted 50% approval from Reds fans. Surprising but true (through 52 votes.)