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edabbs44
07-01-2009, 01:55 PM
According to FOXSports.com's Jon Paul Morosi, the Reds have made plans to call up infielder Drew Sutton.

Sutton was acquired earlier this season in the Jeff Keppinger deal. The 26-year-old has hit .255 with five home runs and 19 RBI for the Triple-A Louisville bats and could provide adequate infield depth for the injury-ridden Reds. It's not yet clear who will be booted to make room.
Source: FOXSports.com


Source: Injury-plagued Reds to call up Sutton
by Jon Paul Morosi

Updated: July 1, 2009, 1:14 PM EDT

The Cincinnati Reds have made plans to call up infielder Drew Sutton, perhaps as early as today, a major league source told FOXSports.com.

Sutton has batted .255 with five home runs and 19 RBIs in 43 games at Class AAA this year. He was traded from Houston to Cincinnati earlier this year.

Sutton, who turned 26 earlier this week, has started games at every infield position this year. The Reds' starting shortstop and third baseman are currently on the disabled list, and they have been looking for a hitter on the trade market in recent days.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9753320/Source:-Injury-plagued-Reds-to-call-up-Sutton

flyer85
07-01-2009, 01:58 PM
:dunno:

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2009, 01:58 PM
Sutton is hitting .254/.388/.492 - .880 OPS in 130 atbats with Louisville, including a .990 OPS vs LHP. He's a switch-hitter who can play all four infield positions though he doesn't have the ability to play shortstop on a regular basis.

kaldaniels
07-01-2009, 02:00 PM
Sutton is hitting .254/.388/.492 - .880 OPS in 130 atbats with Louisville, including a .990 OPS vs LHP. He's a switch-hitter who can play all four infield positions though he doesn't have the ability to play shortstop on a regular basis.

Great. Who goes down?

Homer Bailey
07-01-2009, 02:02 PM
Great. Who goes down?

Gotta think Richar.

I'd love to see Hairston grab some extra pine time even before EE gets back and see Sutton play some 3rd but we all know the likelihood of that.

LawFive
07-01-2009, 02:02 PM
My first instinct was one of the RPs since we are one heavy but with both Arroyo and Owings routinely going only 5 innings, maybe we need the 8th reliever after all...

flyer85
07-01-2009, 02:03 PM
Great. Who goes down?there are plenty of options

Tom Servo
07-01-2009, 02:05 PM
He has to be better than Rosales...right?

traderumor
07-01-2009, 02:06 PM
Has anyone seen Edwin today?:evil:

flyer85
07-01-2009, 02:07 PM
He has to be better than Rosales...right?

He can't be anywhere near that scrappy

BRM
07-01-2009, 02:08 PM
He has to be better than Rosales...right?

He's the next I-71 Savior.

REDREAD
07-01-2009, 02:17 PM
He has to be better than Rosales...right?

That's what I'm thinking. Rosales is pretty useless at this point. Send him down.

OnBaseMachine
07-01-2009, 02:20 PM
That's what I'm thinking. Rosales is pretty useless at this point. Send him down.

Rosales was sent down last week.

TRF
07-01-2009, 02:21 PM
That's what I'm thinking. Rosales is pretty useless at this point. Send him down.

Rosales is already at Louisville.

Big Klu
07-01-2009, 02:28 PM
Great. Who goes down?


Gotta think Richar.

I'd love to see Hairston grab some extra pine time even before EE gets back and see Sutton play some 3rd but we all know the likelihood of that.


My first instinct was one of the RPs since we are one heavy but with both Arroyo and Owings routinely going only 5 innings, maybe we need the 8th reliever after all...

My gut feeling is that Arroyo goes on the DL.

TRF
07-01-2009, 02:34 PM
My gut feeling is that Arroyo goes on the DL.

That's an interesting take.

But it means someone takes his spot in the rotation at least twice. Volquez isn't close, so that means Richar goes down for Maloney? I can see that. It would be passable if Homer pitches better friday.

Kc61
07-01-2009, 02:37 PM
That's an interesting take.

But it means someone takes his spot in the rotation at least twice. Volquez isn't close, so that means Richar goes down for Maloney? I can see that. It would be passable if Homer pitches better friday.

I see Dusty double switched Janish out of the game yesterday. Could Janish be hurt? Or, with the offense so weak, are they sending Janish out for a more offensive minded shortstop?

Wonder if Janish is involved.

Big Klu
07-01-2009, 02:49 PM
That's an interesting take.

But it means someone takes his spot in the rotation at least twice. Volquez isn't close, so that means Richar goes down for Maloney? I can see that. It would be passable if Homer pitches better friday.

Justin Lehr pitched yesterday for Louisville.

Big Klu
07-01-2009, 02:51 PM
I see Dusty double switched Janish out of the game yesterday. Could Janish be hurt? Or, with the offense so weak, are they sending Janish out for a more offensive minded shortstop?

Wonder if Janish is involved.

He double-switched Janish out because Janish had made the last out of the previous inning, and the pitcher's #9 spot was due to lead off the next inning. Dusty wanted to use Fisher for more than that one inning, so he made a double switch.

reds44
07-01-2009, 03:20 PM
Don't think the .255 hitter in AAA is the savior.

bucksfan2
07-01-2009, 03:24 PM
Don't think the .255 hitter in AAA is the savior.

Many are expecting a player with a .476 OPS this season to be the savior.

Mario-Rijo
07-01-2009, 03:27 PM
Don't think the .255 hitter in AAA is the savior.

Who's calling him a savior?

TRF
07-01-2009, 03:31 PM
Many are expecting a player with a .476 OPS this season to be the savior.

If by savior you mean post an .830+ OPS when healthy, then... ok.

*BaseClogger*
07-01-2009, 03:34 PM
Many are expecting a player with a .476 OPS this season to be the savior.

Because he was healthy, right? :rolleyes:

reds44
07-01-2009, 03:35 PM
Many are expecting a player with a .476 OPS this season to be the savior.
This is a joke, right? It has to be.

Caveat Emperor
07-01-2009, 03:35 PM
Justin Lehr pitched yesterday for Louisville.

Lehr isn't on the 40-man, though. They'd have to make a roster-move to add him, plus another roster move to add Edwin back to the 40 man as well.

reds44
07-01-2009, 03:36 PM
The Reds just announced that Jared Burton had been option to Louisville and Drew Sutton had been called up from Louisville.

Burton was 0-0 with a 4.81 ERA in 28 games. In hislast nine appearances, he has a 2.19 ERA.

Sutton is the player the Reds got in the Jeff Keppinger trade with Houston
Interesting.

Caveat Emperor
07-01-2009, 03:38 PM
This is a joke, right? It has to be.

Might not be.

I think if you polled RedsZone, you'd find that your opinion of Edwin Encarnacion is no stronger than the opinion he isn't an everyday solution at 3rd base for this team.

Difference of opinion is all it is. You like Edwin -- if I were running the team, he'd be a RH bat off the bench with a better player (read: better defender) manning his position.

reds44
07-01-2009, 03:39 PM
Might not be.

I think if you polled RedsZone, you'd find that your opinion of Edwin Encarnacion is no stronger than the opinion he isn't an everyday solution at 3rd base for this team.

Difference of opinion is all it is. You like Edwin -- if I were running the team, he'd be a RH bat off the bench with a better player (read: better defender) manning his position.
Yes, I know this.

Doesn't change the fact he's not a ".476 OPS" player.

11larkin11
07-01-2009, 03:51 PM
Don't think the .255 hitter in AAA is the savior.

...with an .880 OPS. He takes walks, and has power. Thats better than what we've had at third all year. I stick him at third every day until Edwin comes back, see what he's got.

Big Klu
07-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Lehr isn't on the 40-man, though. They'd have to make a roster-move to add him, plus another roster move to add Edwin back to the 40 man as well.

That's true. I was thinking about that earlier, after I made my post. So it could be Maloney again, instead.

The Reds can easily clear one spot on the 40-man roster by transfering Wilkin Castillo from the 15-day DL to the 60-day DL. They can clear a second spot by calling Bill Bray up from Louisville and immediately placing him on the 60-day DL, though they don't want to do that because then that time counts toward his service time. I think that the Reds may be more willing to make that move later in the season, when the amount of service time Bray could accrue would be less significant.

bucksfan2
07-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Yes, I know this.

Doesn't change the fact he's not a ".476 OPS" player.

It was said a little tongue and cheek, but fact of the matter is we don't know what kind of player Edwin will be this season. He isn't a .467 OPS player but I doubt he is a .830+ OPS player as mentioned before. He is the classic potential vs. reality guy who some love and some hate.

No one besides Edwin can truthfully tell us when the injury happened and how much it effected his game. I get sick and tired of the injury excuses and "hes young" or "he has the ability to" excuses. What irritates me about Edwin is for 19 games he was awful this season. He put up an OPS of .476 and really hurt this team. If his hand hurt for the entire first month of the season then he should have said something. It also bothered me that he took the day off yesterday. He does the Reds no good sitting on the bench in Louisville.

IMO Edwin isn't the answer at 3b. I am in agreement with Caveat Emperor but unfortunately the Reds don't have a better answer yet. IMO I would trade Edwin to anyone who values him as some on RZ do. I thought it was funny the amount of people who were against an Edwin for Holliday straight up trade. I would do it in a heartbeat. .5 years of Holliday >>> 1.5 years of Edwin. But then again it is just my opinion.

I(heart)Freel
07-01-2009, 03:55 PM
It's Burton.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090701/SPT04/307010092/Burton+down++Sutton+up+for+Reds

Brutus
07-01-2009, 04:04 PM
It was said a little tongue and cheek, but fact of the matter is we don't know what kind of player Edwin will be this season. He isn't a .467 OPS player but I doubt he is a .830+ OPS player as mentioned before. He is the classic potential vs. reality guy who some love and some hate.

No one besides Edwin can truthfully tell us when the injury happened and how much it effected his game. I get sick and tired of the injury excuses and "hes young" or "he has the ability to" excuses. What irritates me about Edwin is for 19 games he was awful this season. He put up an OPS of .476 and really hurt this team. If his hand hurt for the entire first month of the season then he should have said something. It also bothered me that he took the day off yesterday. He does the Reds no good sitting on the bench in Louisville.

IMO Edwin isn't the answer at 3b. I am in agreement with Caveat Emperor but unfortunately the Reds don't have a better answer yet. IMO I would trade Edwin to anyone who values him as some on RZ do. I thought it was funny the amount of people who were against an Edwin for Holliday straight up trade. I would do it in a heartbeat. .5 years of Holliday >>> 1.5 years of Edwin. But then again it is just my opinion.

What do you expect?

So far in his career, he's been an OPS guy of 806, 794 and 832 in his three full seasons. If nothing else, I think 800 for the rest of the season is certainly not asking much and 830 is not a terrible stretch.

I don't think EE is the perfect answer at third base. However, I also think the Reds could do (and have done) worse.

Big Klu
07-01-2009, 04:12 PM
It was said a little tongue and cheek, but fact of the matter is we don't know what kind of player Edwin will be this season. He isn't a .467 OPS player but I doubt he is a .830+ OPS player as mentioned before. He is the classic potential vs. reality guy who some love and some hate.

No one besides Edwin can truthfully tell us when the injury happened and how much it effected his game. I get sick and tired of the injury excuses and "hes young" or "he has the ability to" excuses. What irritates me about Edwin is for 19 games he was awful this season. He put up an OPS of .476 and really hurt this team. If his hand hurt for the entire first month of the season then he should have said something. It also bothered me that he took the day off yesterday. He does the Reds no good sitting on the bench in Louisville.

IMO Edwin isn't the answer at 3b. I am in agreement with Caveat Emperor but unfortunately the Reds don't have a better answer yet. IMO I would trade Edwin to anyone who values him as some on RZ do. I thought it was funny the amount of people who were against an Edwin for Holliday straight up trade. I would do it in a heartbeat. .5 years of Holliday >>> 1.5 years of Edwin. But then again it is just my opinion.


I agree with you regarding Encarnacion's DNP yesterday. Rehab assignments are for a finite amount of time (20 days). If he needed a rest from playing every day (understandable, since he hadn't played in bearly two months), then they have this thing in the minor leagues called the designated hitter. He could have DH'ed for two or three AB's.

On your second point, I agree and disagree. I am neither a huge Edwin fan nor a detractor. I simply think that he is what he is--what you see is what you get. I disagreed with the predictions from a couple of years ago that he is on the brink of being the next Mike Schmidt. I think he could be the next Buddy Bell--offensively. Defense is another matter entirely! He has the knack for making the spectacular play, but botches far too many routine plays. And there are far more routine plays than spectacular plays in baseball. So I agree with you in that he should definitely not be untouchable--and if a good offer is made, jump on it. However, I disagree with you that Matt Holliday is that offer. I want absolutely NOTHING to do with Matt Holliday! Under no circumstances would I want him on my team.

alexad
07-01-2009, 04:18 PM
Interesting move since Burton has pitched pretty well lately. It appears the rookies are pitching better or the Reds need to continue to showcase them. It has been said the two rookies are the same type of pitcher. So Burton can not be the same and it also shows no one is interested in him. Burton has to be pretty burnt about this happening after he finally got it together.

I have to say Burton's beard looked pretty funky last night. No side burns and just hair around his face. Maybe someone at Louisville can show him how to shave??

BRM
07-01-2009, 04:31 PM
...with an .880 OPS. He takes walks, and has power. Thats better than what we've had at third all year. I stick him at third every day until Edwin comes back, see what he's got.

I would too but I won't be holding my breath. Although I guess Dusty could plant Janish back on the bench and go with Hairston/Sutton at SS/3B.

bucksfan2
07-01-2009, 04:35 PM
What do you expect?

So far in his career, he's been an OPS guy of 806, 794 and 832 in his three full seasons. If nothing else, I think 800 for the rest of the season is certainly not asking much and 830 is not a terrible stretch.

I don't think EE is the perfect answer at third base. However, I also think the Reds could do (and have done) worse.

Improvement both offensively and defensively. How much does a .030 difference in OPS matter if it doesn't follow a trend. In reality could the difference between an OPS of .800 and .830 be a 2-3 hrs? Could that just be playing two series in Chicago when the wind is blowing out as opposed to when the wind is blowing in? Im just asking because I really don't know.


Big Klu I agree with you regarding Encarnacion's DNP yesterday. Rehab assignments are for a finite amount of time (20 days). If he needed a rest from playing every day (understandable, since he hadn't played in bearly two months), then they have this thing in the minor leagues called the designated hitter. He could have DH'ed for two or three AB's.

On your second point, I agree and disagree. I am neither a huge Edwin fan nor a detractor. I simply think that he is what he is--what you see is what you get. I disagreed with the predictions from a couple of years ago that he is on the brink of being the next Mike Schmidt. I think he could be the next Buddy Bell--offensively. Defense is another matter entirely! He has the knack for making the spectacular play, but botches far too many routine plays. And there are far more routine plays than spectacular plays in baseball. So I agree with you in that he should definitely not be untouchable--and if a good offer is made, jump on it. However, I disagree with you that Matt Holliday is that offer. I want absolutely NOTHING to do with Matt Holliday! Under no circumstances would I want him on my team.

Big Klu is it you who doesn't like Holliday because you thought he tanked it in the WBC? I thought I read that on RZ and thought it maybe was you, especially with you dislike of Holliday. I am willing to trade Edwin his positives and negatives for a chance this season. Give me a guy with a career line of .315/.384/.540. Granted it may be inflated somewhat by Coors but I don't think there will be a huge drop off between Coors and GABP. I am willing to take the chance that either Sutton/Rosales/Frazier/someone else can become an all around better 3B than Edwin.

*BaseClogger*
07-01-2009, 04:45 PM
IMO Edwin isn't the answer at 3b. I am in agreement with Caveat Emperor but unfortunately the Reds don't have a better answer yet. IMO I would trade Edwin to anyone who values him as some on RZ do. I thought it was funny the amount of people who were against an Edwin for Holliday straight up trade. I would do it in a heartbeat. .5 years of Holliday >>> 1.5 years of Edwin. But then again it is just my opinion.

What does 'the answer" mean, exactly? How can he not be the answer but at the same time be by far the Reds best option at 3B? And for the record, EE is still under control for the remainder of 2009, 2010, and 2011. So it's 2.5 years of Encarnacion > .5 years of Holliday...

nate
07-01-2009, 04:46 PM
Improvement both offensively and defensively. How much does a .030 difference in OPS matter if it doesn't follow a trend. In reality could the difference between an OPS of .800 and .830 be a 2-3 hrs? Could that just be playing two series in Chicago when the wind is blowing out as opposed to when the wind is blowing in? Im just asking because I really don't know.

It mainly depends on the number of ABs.

bucksfan2
07-01-2009, 04:48 PM
What does 'the answer" mean, exactly? How can he not be the answer but at the same time by far the Reds best option at 3B? And for the record, EE is still under control for the remainder of 2009, 2010, and 2011. So it's 2.5 years of Encarnacion > .5 years of Holliday...

On Cots it shows Edwin locked up through 2010. He has a 2 year/$7.6M deal. I thought you went year to year with arbitration while under a team's control.

*BaseClogger*
07-01-2009, 04:52 PM
On Cots it shows Edwin locked up through 2010. He has a 2 year/$7.6M deal. I thought you went year to year with arbitration while under a team's control.

You do, but this year was his first year eligible for arbitration and the Reds gave him a two-year contract, which means he is still arbitration eligible for 2011...

bucksfan2
07-01-2009, 04:56 PM
It mainly depends on the number of ABs.

Correct me if I am wrong.

From 2007 to 2008 Edwin's OPS went from .794 to .807.

He increased his HR's during that span by 10.

A HR increases OPS by a 5 correct (SLG 4.0 and OBP 1.0).

Therefor by just the increase in HR's Edwin increased his OPS by .0859?

Just by looking at this I would assume that his overall game last season went in the wrong direction. Something happened from 2006 to 2007 to 2008 that cause Edwin to hit for more power, but get on base less. I would much rather have the Edwin of 2006 with less HR's than the Edwin of last season. I guess this is why I really don't see much of an improvement out of Edwin.

Does this make sense or not?

Ltlabner
07-01-2009, 04:59 PM
He's the next I-71 Savior.

I'll be expecting my royalty check in the mail for that bub.

BRM
07-01-2009, 05:02 PM
I'll be expecting my royalty check in the mail for that bub.

How about Paypal?

Ltlabner
07-01-2009, 05:04 PM
How about Paypal?

Only with a confirmed address and phone number. I've heard about you.

BRM
07-01-2009, 05:16 PM
Per Fay:



--Jared Burton is not happy, well, actually hes ticked off.

I aint got nothing to say, he said. "Talk to Dusty."

I dont want him to be happy, Dusty Baker said. If hes mad at me, Dick (Pole) or Walt (Jocketty), pitch like it. Hell be back.

We have high hopes and big plans for him. Hopefully, this is a temporary thing.

Big Klu
07-01-2009, 05:19 PM
Improvement both offensively and defensively. How much does a .030 difference in OPS matter if it doesn't follow a trend. In reality could the difference between an OPS of .800 and .830 be a 2-3 hrs? Could that just be playing two series in Chicago when the wind is blowing out as opposed to when the wind is blowing in? Im just asking because I really don't know.



Big Klu is it you who doesn't like Holliday because you thought he tanked it in the WBC? I thought I read that on RZ and thought it maybe was you, especially with you dislike of Holliday. I am willing to trade Edwin his positives and negatives for a chance this season. Give me a guy with a career line of .315/.384/.540. Granted it may be inflated somewhat by Coors but I don't think there will be a huge drop off between Coors and GABP. I am willing to take the chance that either Sutton/Rosales/Frazier/someone else can become an all around better 3B than Edwin.


Yes, that's me.

nate
07-01-2009, 05:23 PM
Correct me if I am wrong.

From 2007 to 2008 Edwin's OPS went from .794 to .807.

He increased his HR's during that span by 10.

A HR increases OPS by a 5 correct (SLG 4.0 and OBP 1.0).

Therefor by just the increase in HR's Edwin increased his OPS by .0859?

Just by looking at this I would assume that his overall game last season went in the wrong direction. Something happened from 2006 to 2007 to 2008 that cause Edwin to hit for more power, but get on base less. I would much rather have the Edwin of 2006 with less HR's than the Edwin of last season. I guess this is why I really don't see much of an improvement out of Edwin.

Does this make sense or not?

You're leaving out his OBP which went down by .016.

Note the OPS year by year:


Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards
2005 22 CIN NL 69 234 211 25 49 16 0 9 31 3 0 20 60 .232 .308 .436 .744 93 92 8 3 0 0 2 5
2006 23 CIN NL 117 463 406 60 112 33 1 15 72 6 3 41 78 .276 .359 .473 .831 108 192 9 13 0 3 3 *5/3
2007 24 CIN NL 139 556 502 66 145 25 1 16 76 8 1 39 86 .289 .356 .438 .794 101 220 5 14 0 1 4 *5
2008 25 CIN NL 146 582 506 75 127 29 1 26 68 1 0 61 102 .251 .340 .466 .807 106 236 13 10 0 5 1 *5
2009 26 CIN NL 19 77 63 2 8 1 0 1 6 1 1 13 19 .127 .286 .190 .476 28 12 1 1 0 0 0 5
5 Seasons 5 Seasons 5 Seasons 5 Seasons 490 1912 1688 228 441 104 3 67 253 19 5 174 345 .261 .343 .445 .789 101 752 36 41 0 9 10
162 Game Avg. 162 Game Avg. 162 Game Avg. 162 Game Avg. 162 632 558 75 146 34 1 22 84 6 2 58 114 .261 .343 .445 .789 101 249 12 14 0 3 3
vs. cumulatively, year by year:


Year Age G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
2005 22 69 234 211 25 49 16 0 9 31 3 0 20 60 .232 .308 .436 .744 93 92 8 3 0 0 2
2006 23 186 697 617 85 161 49 1 24 103 9 3 61 138 .261 .341 .460 .802 103 284 17 16 0 3 5
2007 24 325 1253 1119 151 306 74 2 40 179 17 4 100 224 .273 .348 .450 .798 102 504 22 30 0 4 9
2008 25 471 1835 1625 226 433 103 3 66 247 18 4 161 326 .266 .346 .455 .801 103 740 35 40 0 9 10
2009 26 490 1912 1688 228 441 104 3 67 253 19 5 174 345 .261 .343 .445 .789 101 752 36 41 0 9 10
The cumulative stats track his career totals up to that point. Aside from this year's horrible start, he's proven fairly strongly over a three year period that he's an .800 OPS bat.

VR
07-01-2009, 11:43 PM
Of the pitchers who pitched the entire month, Jared Burton was the ERA leader at 2.19.

WVRedsFan
07-02-2009, 01:04 AM
--Jared Burton is not happy, well, actually hes ticked off.

I aint got nothing to say, he said. "Talk to Dusty."

I dont want him to be happy, Dusty Baker said. If hes mad at me, Dick (Pole) or Walt (Jocketty), pitch like it. Hell be back.

We have high hopes and big plans for him. Hopefully, this is a temporary thing.

Mystifying. I guess someone had to go, but Burton has been pitching well. Of course, this stream of players from Louisville who come up and go back doesn't erase the need for a real MLB bat--something searched for since October.

TRF
07-02-2009, 09:20 AM
The only difference between Burton in April and Burton in June was 2 hits. He still walked too many, and I'd say the runs in April represented some bad luck, or the lack of runs in June some good luck.

He puts a lot of runners on base.

REDREAD
07-02-2009, 01:03 PM
Rosales is already at Louisville.

Thanks guys.. Another screwup by me.. been busy lately and missed that transaction.

mth123
07-02-2009, 06:52 PM
Burton just needs to pitch well and he'll be back by the end of the month. If the Reds are buyers, I have to think that Roenicke or Fisher will be in the package. If they are sellers, then Weathers likely goes.

fearofpopvol1
07-02-2009, 10:07 PM
What I don't understand is wasn't Burton quoted as previously saying "I need to go down to AAA and work on being better?" Granted that was like a month ago...but it's not like he's been worlds better.