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nate
07-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Another thread has become a little generic so here's a topic that might be a bit more appropriate.

Rank the needs of the Reds, I'll go first!

SP - I have a feeling Arroyo might go on the DL soon
SS - nuff said
3B - unless it seems EE will return to his normal self
SP - this depends on Homer/Maloney
CF - unless Dickerson becomes the starter
LF - low priority

princeton
07-02-2009, 12:00 PM
first, healthy pitching; second, that Zack Cozart is the real deal; third, that someone awakens Walt from his slumber.

SirFelixCat
07-02-2009, 12:02 PM
Another thread has become a little generic so here's a topic that might be a bit more appropriate.

Rank the needs of the Reds, I'll go first!

SP - I have a feeling Arroyo might go on the DL soon
SS - nuff said
3B - unless it seems EE will return to his normal self
SP - this depends on Homer/Maloney
CF - unless Dickerson becomes the starter
LF - low priority

I'd swap #1 and #2, but otherwise, I agree.

EdE coming back will help shore up the position and CF should be fine, if (big if) Dusty realizes it.

redsfandan
07-02-2009, 12:02 PM
1) ss
2) sp prospects
3) catcher (to replace Hernandez next year)

OnBaseMachine
07-02-2009, 12:03 PM
Shortstop
Another starting pitcher

TheNext44
07-02-2009, 12:07 PM
1) SS
2) SS
3) SS

TRF
07-02-2009, 12:20 PM
first, healthy pitching; second, that Zack Cozart is the real deal; third, that someone awakens Walt from his slumber.

quoted for truth.

Falls City Beer
07-02-2009, 12:24 PM
A hard-throwing lefty starter.
Scott Rolen.

GAC
07-02-2009, 12:25 PM
Another thread has become a little generic so here's a topic that might be a bit more appropriate.

Rank the needs of the Reds, I'll go first!

SP - I have a feeling Arroyo might go on the DL soon
SS - nuff said
3B - unless it seems EE will return to his normal self
SP - this depends on Homer/Maloney
CF - unless Dickerson becomes the starter
LF - low priority


I don't want rental players brought in for the sake of taking a shot in '09. If Walt can work his "magic" at the trading deadline, and bring in a player that will help us longterm (like a Rolen's deal), then I am all for it. And as much as Dusty loves the sacrifice, don't sacrifice our prospects for temporary help.

SP - go with what you got, and that includes a "patch work" drawing from AAA, or those currently here (Bailey, Masset), until we get a more reliable prognosis on EV and Arroyo.

SS - AGon is gone after this season IMO. Play Janish. The kid is better defensively. As far as his bat? Lets find out once and for all for crying out loud. He's a SS. JHJ is not. But filling this position is a high priority for us IMO.

3B - wait till EE returns. Then address it after the season if improvement is not shown.

CF - I want Dickerson; but we all know that is Dusty's call regardless of what we think. And he says that a non-tendered player is our CFer. But I still maintain my position that CDick should be starting in LF at the least.

But as long as Hairston is on this roster you're not going to get "set" guys in those various positions because of Dusty's man-love for Jerry. Even when EE returns, you'll just see JHJ at SS more.

GOYA
07-02-2009, 12:29 PM
SS
Manager
Jay Bruce to produce consistently

Will M
07-02-2009, 12:48 PM
for the Reds to win in 2009:
1. SS
2. another SP
3. a RH hitter to platoon with Bruce

for the Reds to build for 2010 & beyond:
1. SS
2. the 2010 team will have other needs such as LF and backup catcher that will be addresses this offseason.

since SS heads the list i believe the key for Walt is to find a young SS.
Drew? Escobar?

Scrap Irony
07-02-2009, 12:49 PM
Specifically and semi-realistically:

1. Brandon Wood, SS (for Arroyo and Fairel)
2. Cliff Lee, SP (for Alonso, Wood, Roenicke, and Francisco)
3. Dickerson in CF semi-permanently (platoon acceptable)

Benihana
07-02-2009, 02:43 PM
1. Shed Bronson Arroyo's contract- and Taveras while you're at it.
2. Young SS (Arroyo for Brandon Wood?)
3. Young RH Corner OF (Arroyo for Michael Taylor? Arroyo and Taveras for Alex Rios?)

Seriously though...
If not Wood, I might offer something for Escobar. Atlanta did once offer Escobar for Arroyo? Any chance we could revive that one? :cool:
If not Taylor or Rios, I would offer Maloney + a reliever for Delmon Young or Elijah Dukes.

Spitball
07-02-2009, 02:57 PM
Specifically and semi-realistically:

1. Brandon Wood, SS (for Arroyo and Fairel)

This would be an ideal trade, but would the Angels go for Arroyo at this point? I believe Saunders, Weaver, Palmer and O'Sullivan are all pitching better than he has of late and Lackey is destined to improve. Also, Santana will be off the DL eventually. Outside of Harang (who I'd consider trading), Cueto, and Volquez, both untouchable, the Reds probably don't have the starters to trade for Wood.

The Angels are just too darn deep, but their most pressing need is certainly relief pitching depth. Arredondo and Shields have been hurt, but Speiers, Bulger, and Oliver have pitched well bridging the innings to Fuentes. Do the Reds dare deplete their relief pitching?

I'm not really certain Wood is truly available. Chone Figgins is in the last year of his contract and I understand Wood is viewed as his eventual replacement. He is also viewed as valuable insurance should Aybar, Figgins, Izturis, or Morales get hurt. However, the Angels are in a tight race with the Rangers, and they may become desperate for a key part that the Reds can provide.

*BaseClogger*
07-02-2009, 03:12 PM
1. Shortstop

























......



What? You thought the Reds had other needs?

reds44
07-02-2009, 03:23 PM
1. Offense
2. Offense
3. Offense
4. Offense
5. Offense

Sea Ray
07-02-2009, 03:24 PM
We need runs. Pitching has been holding its own

We need a SS and maybe a panic disorder to descend upon Willy T 'cause I'm guessing that's what it will take for Dusty to pull him out of the startung lineup.

Speaking of, does anyone know how many times he's made an out trying to bunt for a hit? Add one more from today's first inning. I can recall one successful bunt hit for hit this year but countless failed attempts

AmarilloRed
07-02-2009, 03:54 PM
1. SS
2. 3B
3. CF

nate
07-02-2009, 04:01 PM
Speaking of, does anyone know how many times he's made an out trying to bunt for a hit? Add one more from today's first inning. I can recall one successful bunt hit for hit this year but countless failed attempts

Not to make it a WT thread but:


Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
Ground Balls 51 90 90 25 4 0 0 5 0 0 .278 .278 .322 .600 29 2 0 0 0 0 2 .278 107 146
Fly Balls 44 66 64 9 4 0 1 3 0 0 .141 .136 .250 .386 16 0 0 0 2 0 0 .123 32 5
Line Drives 19 26 26 18 2 1 0 2 0 0 .692 .692 .846 1.538 22 0 0 0 0 0 0 .692 430 79
Bunts 27 31 23 6 0 0 0 1 0 0 .261 .261 .261 .522 6 0 0 8 0 0 3 .261 80 44

nate
07-02-2009, 04:02 PM
I'm kind of surprised more folks aren't concerned about the starting pitching. I think it'd be nice to have one more solid pitcher to pick up the slack for EV.

Or, could Masset move back to the rotation?

Rojo
07-02-2009, 04:06 PM
I'm kind of surprised more folks aren't concerned about the starting pitching. I think it'd be nice to have one more solid pitcher to pick up the slack for EV.

Or, could Masset move back to the rotation?

Its a tough call because of the injuries. Healthy it's not a problem.

bucksfan2
07-02-2009, 04:16 PM
I'm kind of surprised more folks aren't concerned about the starting pitching. I think it'd be nice to have one more solid pitcher to pick up the slack for EV.

Or, could Masset move back to the rotation?

Masset will become the 8th inning pitcher as the season continues. Him and Cordero could potentially make for a great 8th inning 9th inning combo.

RedsManRick
07-02-2009, 04:18 PM
I do not see 'Manager who plays his best players and understands the value of OBP' on this list...

Strikes Out Looking
07-02-2009, 04:20 PM
Bench Coach quietly installed to run the tactical portion of the game, including lineup construction so as manager can deal with personality issues and talking to Marty before the game.

Sea Ray
07-02-2009, 04:32 PM
I'm kind of surprised more folks aren't concerned about the starting pitching. I think it'd be nice to have one more solid pitcher to pick up the slack for EV.

Or, could Masset move back to the rotation?

Masset is too valuable in his bullpen role. He doesn't help you much as a 5 inning starter

Everytime I look at a Reds boxscore and I rarely see crooked numbers in any of nine innings it becomes obvious what their need is.

Have they scored more than 1 run in any inning this week vs the D-Backs?

jojo
07-02-2009, 04:44 PM
Arroyo is untradeable and even if he were tradeable, his contract would significantly mitigate the return.

OnBaseMachine
07-02-2009, 04:49 PM
I'm kind of surprised more folks aren't concerned about the starting pitching. I think it'd be nice to have one more solid pitcher to pick up the slack for EV.

Or, could Masset move back to the rotation?

IMO, the Reds biggest need by far is offense (shortstop!) but I do think they need another starting pitcher, too. The loss of Volquez really hurts. With Volquez healthy, he gives the Reds three starters capable of shutting the opposing offense down on any given night. But with him injured, the Reds are forced to run guys out there who aren't ready to succeed in the majors yet (Bailey/Maloney). Doug Davis would be a nice target, IMO.

GOYA
07-02-2009, 05:03 PM
I think Bailey IS ready to succeed in the majors. When a guy has excellent control game after game in AAA and then can't throws two feet out of the zone in the bigs, it has got to be something mental. He just needs to get over it and use his stuff. And he can't get over this mental block anywhere but the majors because it doesn't exist anywhere but the majors. Give him some starts and I'll bet he's OK.

Highlifeman21
07-02-2009, 05:08 PM
A hard-throwing lefty starter.
Scott Rolen.

Even given Rolen's back issues?

nate
07-02-2009, 05:21 PM
I guess my reason for suggesting pitching is for increased depth. Currently, we're "in" our pitching depth: Homer/Maloney. If we have to rely on _both_ of them instead of just one, we might be printing our "just wait 'til next year!" shirts in July. Not to say that those guys are bad, but they might not be able to continually hold the other team to <3-4 runs a game.

That being said, it's an unreasonable expectation of ANY pitching staff to hold the other team to <3-4 runs a game which is why we need offense as well. However, again, I think we're "in" our depth due to EE's injury. Getting a SS that can swing, at the least, an uncooked noodle would be swell.

So, my reasoning for saying SP #1 and SS #2 is that we need to maintain our "OK" pitching by adding some depth. Then we need to add to our offense to give our pitching a bit larger margin for error.

Sea Ray
07-02-2009, 06:59 PM
I guess my reason for suggesting pitching is for increased depth.

The problem is we have no depth to increase at other positions such as SS, 3B and OF

Rojo
07-02-2009, 07:43 PM
I guess my reason for suggesting pitching is for increased depth. Currently, we're "in" our pitching depth: Homer/Maloney. If we have to rely on _both_ of them instead of just one, we might be printing our "just wait 'til next year!" shirts in July. Not to say that those guys are bad, but they might not be able to continually hold the other team to <3-4 runs a game.

I'm not sure what kind of "depth" your looking for. Adding a TOR guy and pushing Harang to #4? Shoring up the back-end? Adding taxi squad types?

Falls City Beer
07-02-2009, 07:47 PM
I'm not sure what kind of "depth" your looking for. Adding a TOR guy and pushing Harang to #4? Shoring up the back-end? Adding taxi squad types?

Whatever pushes Arroyo and Bailey out of the rotation.

nate
07-02-2009, 07:57 PM
I'm not sure what kind of "depth" your looking for. Adding a TOR guy and pushing Harang to #4? Shoring up the back-end? Adding taxi squad types?

Adding an average starter. I don't really care about the day of the week they pitch on.

nate
07-02-2009, 07:58 PM
Whatever pushes Arroyo and Bailey out of the rotation.

No. But someone to pick up the slack should Arroyo miss time (and hopefully get better) and/or someone to caddy for Homer.

Falls City Beer
07-02-2009, 08:02 PM
No. But someone to pick up the slack should Arroyo miss time (and hopefully get better) and/or someone to caddy for Homer.

I'm not looking to put Arroyo out of a job, but he's either injured or just awful. Whatever the case, they'll need a starter.

Homer should probably get a bunch of starts, but that's only if they're white-flagging the season, which they probably should.

Matt700wlw
07-02-2009, 08:09 PM
Homer should probably get a bunch of starts, but that's only if they're white-flagging the season, which they probably should.

Homer will get the starts now because Volquez is out. After that, they have a decision to make on what to do with him, which obviously they will have to base on his performace, injuries, and the performace of Micah Owings.

He has no business back in Louisville...it's the big leagues or bust, in some, way, shape or form. At this point, I don't care if it's starter or reliever. At this point, he has to stick.


White flag? Please. Not in the division.

Matt700wlw
07-02-2009, 08:13 PM
Whatever pushes Arroyo and Bailey out of the rotation.


Injury will push Arroyo out (and nothing more).

Bailey's future in the rotation depends on himself...but you gave up on the kid a LOOOOOONG time ago.

bucksfan2
07-03-2009, 09:07 AM
I guess my reason for suggesting pitching is for increased depth. Currently, we're "in" our pitching depth: Homer/Maloney. If we have to rely on _both_ of them instead of just one, we might be printing our "just wait 'til next year!" shirts in July. Not to say that those guys are bad, but they might not be able to continually hold the other team to <3-4 runs a game.

The Reds need more pitching just as much as every team in baseball. In reality I think the Reds have one of the better, but also deeper staffs in the NL. Injuries will happen, and when they do to your starting pitchers you have to dip into your minor leagues. Right now the Reds may be "in" their pitching depth but in the next couple of months they should restock that depth. By 2010 Steward, Wood, Thompson, and Leake all should be available to make a spot start in the majors if need be.

But lets say the Reds want to make a move for Doug Davis or Jon Garland from the DBacks. They both would be good middle to back of the rotation starters for the Reds. But the issue becomes the Reds will need to give up some of their depth to get these players. Not only will they have to tap into their depth, but they will also have to replace their depth. Another question to ask is whether another SP will overcome the teams sub par offense? Will another stater help if Edwin is unable to be a 800+ OPS player for the rest of this season?

The Reds may be in a position of luxury right now. They are 2 games back, may be getting Volquez back at the trade deadline. He may be better than any pitcher traded during the month of July. They are getting Edwin back, whatever that is, who has the potential to outproduce any likely traded player not named Holliday.

If, and its a big if, Votto, Bruce, Phillips, Harang, Cueto, and Owings don't miss an extended period of time, the Reds will be getting better at the trade deadline by players coming back, not traded for. Heck the Reds may get even better if JHJ or Taveras spend extended time on the DL.

Ltlabner
07-03-2009, 03:35 PM
Number 1 need of the Reds: Get Jiggy Wit It