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kentjett
07-02-2009, 05:23 PM
They have producive hitters that they continue to sit on the bench. They have the personnel to put 5 consecutive good hitters in a row. Gomes is getting better at defense and is an adequate LF while Dickerson and Bruce are above average. Hanigan doesn't possess a lot of power but is an ideal #2 hitter. My ideal line-up w/ the current staff.

1. Dickerson .288 avg & .389 OBP
2. Hanigan .336 avg & .423 OBP
3. Votto .366 avg & .458 OBP
4. Phillips .268 avg & .334 OBP
5. Gomes .333 avg & .427 OBP
6. Bruce
7. Sutton
8. Janish

Mutaman
07-02-2009, 05:26 PM
They have producive hitters that they continue to sit on the bench. They have the personnel to put 5 consecutive good hitters in a row. Gomes is getting better at defense and is an adequate LF while Dickerson and Bruce are above average. Hanigan doesn't possess a lot of power but is an ideal #2 hitter. My ideal line-up w/ the current staff.

1. Dickerson .288 avg & .389 OBP
2. Hanigan .336 avg & .423 OBP
3. Votto .366 avg & .458 OBP
4. Phillips .268 avg & .334 OBP
5. Gomes .333 avg & .427 OBP
6. Bruce
7. Sutton
8. Janish

Just curious: Who are these productive hitters who "continue to sit on the bench"?

Plus Plus
07-02-2009, 05:28 PM
Dickerson, Hannigan, and often times Gomes. Sutton looks like he could be a productive hitter in the majors based upon his minor league numbers but that remains to be seen. All of these players are being benched for players with OPS of <700.

Edit: Gomes does not fit into that category, although his OPS is so high right now that it would be nice to see him out there more often, somehow.

Shawn_RedsFan
07-02-2009, 05:28 PM
Just curious: Who are these productive hitters who "continue to sit on the bench"?

He's talking about Dickerson and Hanigan

kentjett
07-02-2009, 05:32 PM
It's obvious who should be batting number 1 & 2 but it seems so difficult for Dusty. I used to be a Dusty fan but his coaching is getting old.

Mutaman
07-02-2009, 05:39 PM
He's talking about Dickerson and Hanigan

Dickerson has started 8 of the last 9 games even though lefthanders started 2 of them. Hannigan has started 7 of the last 10. What is the issue here? By the way, when Hannigan starts, what do you do with Ramon-- play him at shortstop?

Shawn_RedsFan
07-02-2009, 05:40 PM
Dickerson has started 8 of the last 9 games even though lefthanders started 2 of them. Hannigan has started 7 of the last 10. What is the issue here? By the way, when Hannigan starts, what do you do with Ramon-- play him at shortstop?

Don't be coming at me I know this, I was just answering your question because that was who he was talking about

Mutaman
07-02-2009, 05:41 PM
It's obvious who should be batting number 1 & 2 but it seems so difficult for Dusty. I used to be a Dusty fan but his coaching is getting old.

I agree. With the talent on this team we should be well over .500 and comfortably in first place. There is no doubt that with all of the talent we have that if anybody but Baker was managing, this team would have already clinched the division by now.

kentjett
07-02-2009, 05:45 PM
I'm concerned about both of them batting at the bottom of the lineup. We need them guys on base inorder for Votto and Phiilips to hit them in.

kentjett
07-02-2009, 05:47 PM
Dickerson should be the starting CF, Gomes in LF and Hanigan at C. All three of them guys should be batting within the top 5. I will be shocked if Hanigan starts more games than Hernandez from here on out but we all know he deserves it.

kentjett
07-02-2009, 05:50 PM
Hernandez w/ his sub .250 average should be on the bench backing up 1st base, 3rd base and catcher.

Captain Hook
07-02-2009, 05:52 PM
Dickerson has started 8 of the last 9 games even though lefthanders started 2 of them. Hannigan has started 7 of the last 10. What is the issue here? By the way, when Hannigan starts, what do you do with Ramon-- play him at shortstop?

Hanigan has started 7 of the last 10?If my memory serves me he has only started 1 game since Votto came off the DL.I didn't see the game today but would guess he didn't start.He'll probably get one Fri. with Bailey pitching.I don't have a big problem with Hernandez but imo he has to get a few days off a week.We have a great back up and Hernandez isn't so fantastic that he should get every start.Let Hannigan catch Bronson and Baily.I don't know how to check this but I'd bet that Bronson pitches much better when Hannigan catches.

The biggest issue is that while Dickerson has been getting starts Taveras is still playing.This was a bigger problem when we were playing the AL teams with the advantage of the DH.Dusty decided that he would rather have Taveras in the lineup then Hanigan, but I guess that's not a problem if your not worried about winning games.

kentjett
07-02-2009, 06:11 PM
Hanigan has had 2 maybe 3 starts since Votto has came back. That would make 3 starts in 10 games. I don't know where he is getting his info from. He must not watch very many games. It's obvious that Dusty favors Hernandez for some reason. It's also obvious that he has something against Gomes and Dickerson playing CF.

texasdave
07-02-2009, 06:13 PM
Since June 21st, Hanigan's playing time consists of a pinch-hitting role on the 26th, a start on the 27th and then a start on the 2nd of July. As far as Dickerson is concerned he has played a lot only because the Reds were playing A.L. teams and the DH was available. If there were no DH, more than likely Gomes or Nix would have gotten the nod while Chris collected splinters on the bench.

Captain Hook
07-02-2009, 06:23 PM
Since June 21st, Hanigan's playing time consists of a pinch-hitting role on the 26th, a start on the 27th and then a start on the 2nd of July. As far as Dickerson is concerned he has played a lot only because the Reds were playing A.L. teams and the DH was available. If there were no DH, more than likely Gomes or Nix would have gotten the nod while Chris collected splinters on the bench.

Thanks Texasdave for doing the research.I knew it had to be something like that.Hannigan actually did start today and what do ya know.We got great pitching,he went 3-3 and we won.Once again I don't have a problem with Hernandez but he shouldn't be starting as much as he does.He can even play first to give Votto a day off once in a while.

Mutaman
07-02-2009, 06:39 PM
Sorry. I made a mistake re Hannigan's recent starts. Thanks for the correction.

Kingspoint
07-02-2009, 08:16 PM
Dickerson has started 8 of the last 9 games even though lefthanders started 2 of them. Hannigan has started 7 of the last 10. What is the issue here? By the way, when Hannigan starts, what do you do with Ramon-- play him at shortstop?

Don't know what games you've been watching, but Hanigan has not started 7 of the last 10. This is the whole point of the thread.

Kingspoint
07-02-2009, 08:19 PM
Thanks Texasdave for doing the research.I knew it had to be something like that.Hannigan actually did start today and what do ya know.We got great pitching,he went 3-3 and we won.Once again I don't have a problem with Hernandez but he shouldn't be starting as much as he does.He can even play first to give Votto a day off once in a while.

Brilliant!

Mutaman
07-02-2009, 08:21 PM
Don't know what games you've been watching, but Hanigan has not started 7 of the last 10. This is the whole point of the thread.

Sorry, I made the mistake of assuming people knew how to read. To reiterate, my post of 5:39 pm (the one directly above yours) admits that I made a mistake re Hannigan's recent starts.

Kingspoint
07-02-2009, 08:23 PM
Unbelievable that Taveras starts again today and leads off, ensuring that Votto's hits become worthless as the day progresses, especially with Hairston batting after Taveras.

You may as well bat Votto 9th because the guys that are going to be on base when he comes up are at the bottom of the order in Hanigan and Dickerson.

It'd make more sense if Votto batted in the very bottom of the order after Dickerson and Hanigan, because at least he'd have a chance to drive in some runs.

Another nice O-fer for Taveras today when Hanigan and Dickerson get on base a total of 7 times between them.

Kingspoint
07-02-2009, 08:47 PM
Have you ever seen a Little League coach that bats his son first every game even though his son might be, at best, the 10th best hitter on the team?

kfm
07-02-2009, 09:33 PM
Unbelievable that Taveras starts again today and leads off, ensuring that Votto's hits become worthless as the day progresses, especially with Hairston batting after Taveras.

You may as well bat Votto 9th because the guys that are going to be on base when he comes up are at the bottom of the order in Hanigan and Dickerson.

It'd make more sense if Votto batted in the very bottom of the order after Dickerson and Hanigan, because at least he'd have a chance to drive in some runs.

Another nice O-fer for Taveras today when Hanigan and Dickerson get on base a total of 7 times between them.

We do not agree on much but I do agree on your tavares hate. I just don't get dusty on this one or Corey patterson last year. I guess one difference between us is that I hold Walt responsible for this as well. He knows his manager and his managers affinity for batting guys leadoff who have one skill speed. He never should have signed this guy or at least should have talked to Dusty about the appropriate way to utilize him if he was signed.

Hondo
07-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Ya know... I cannot believe Taveras is hitting this bad... I was hoping for around .270ish.

This Team may need a Lead Off Hitter... It is frustrating to see the Pitching so Good, especially the relievers and have the Offense so Terrible...

Wish this team could pull off a Trade for a young player who can stay with the Team... Not a Rent a player... A Lead Off Hitter... Either that or a Guy to Hit 2nd who is a Moster so Taveras has some extra extra protection...

I still want Sizemore!

Kingspoint
07-02-2009, 10:08 PM
We do not agree on much but I do agree on your tavares hate. I just don't get dusty on this one or Corey patterson last year. I guess one difference between us is that I hold Walt responsible for this as well. He knows his manager and his managers affinity for batting guys leadoff who have one skill speed. He never should have signed this guy or at least should have talked to Dusty about the appropriate way to utilize him if he was signed.

That was a huge risk to take by Walt, knowing as you say, Dusty's tendancies and willingness to tank a season because of his stubbornness in this area.

Plus Plus
07-02-2009, 10:10 PM
If Dusty ends up going to a true platoon in CF with Dickerson and Taveras, with either of them batting leadoff when they are in the lineup, would that appease the fans?

Serious question, not baiting or anything. I am curious to see how people will react- I myself am undecided because of my loathing for WT.

kfm
07-02-2009, 11:13 PM
If Dusty ends up going to a true platoon in CF with Dickerson and Taveras, with either of them batting leadoff when they are in the lineup, would that appease the fans?

Serious question, not baiting or anything. I am curious to see how people will react- I myself am undecided because of my loathing for WT.

No, I don't think it would appease fans at all. First, the mere sight of Tavares name on the score card makes many fans very angry. If Tavares played to give Dickerson some time off but did not hit leadoff I would be ok with it. The problem is not just that Tavares plays over Dickerson, it is that he is cast in a role that he does not have the skills for. Obviously other managers have made the same mistake that Dusty is making and that is hoping a guy who has one great skill, speed, can get on base enough to make that skill matter. I am not sure if this is accurate, but I think I heard Marty say that he has not walked since May.

CesarGeronimo
07-03-2009, 12:24 AM
Sorry, I made the mistake of assuming people knew how to read. To reiterate, my post of 5:39 pm (the one directly above yours) admits that I made a mistake re Hannigan's recent starts.

But your mistake indicates that you have not been paying attention at all to recent games. How could you not know that Hanigan hasn't been playing? I sometimes wonder if the people who defend Dusty Baker simply aren't watching the games or reading the box scores and your comments in this thread support that idea.

Ghosts of 1990
07-03-2009, 12:38 AM
I am very lenient with Baker. I like him. But these lineups are absolutely hideous.

Mutaman
07-03-2009, 12:45 AM
But your mistake indicates that you have not been paying attention at all to recent games. How could you not know that Hanigan hasn't been playing? I sometimes wonder if the people who defend Dusty Baker simply aren't watching the games or reading the box scores and your comments in this thread support that idea.

I'm really sorry, I'll try to watch more games and do better the next time. You have made me see the error of my ways. Lets see, with this talented team we are only 1 game over .500 and we are still a whole 2 games out of first place. Baker is really horrible. Too bad we don't have a great manager like old Lou, why look at how great the Cubs are doing.

Its clear that if Hannigan was catching every day and Ramon was on the bench we would have clinched the division by now. No question, that would really make a huge difference. Thanks for showing me how how stupid I am. Please continue to pass along all the great insights you have obtained from watching the games and reading the boxscores.

CesarGeronimo
07-03-2009, 12:49 AM
Fair enough, Jay Bruce32. I like some things about Dusty, as well. He obviously has good people skills and seems like a decent guy. He handles the pitchers well, I think, although he sometimes leaves them in longer than I'd prefer. But the way that he picks particular players that he stubbornly decides to favor over others and his philosophies in choosing a lineup and a batting order overshadow all of that for me. I can understand how other fans feel differently about that, though, even if I don't sound like it sometimes.

I just can't get over choosing a Darnell McDonald who has never been particularly good even at the minor league level over a Jonny Gomes who's had some success at the major league level. Even though it's not a huge factor in the season, it just seems so obvious that I can't get behind a guy who'd make that decision, even if he is doing some other things well. The Taveras over Dickerson situation is the same way for me, particularly with the idiocy of Taveras continuing to lead off at this point. Maybe I need to get better at ignoring the trees and focusing on the forest.

BLEEDS
07-03-2009, 01:02 AM
Since June 21st, Hanigan's playing time consists of a pinch-hitting role on the 26th, a start on the 27th and then a start on the 2nd of July. As far as Dickerson is concerned he has played a lot only because the Reds were playing A.L. teams and the DH was available. If there were no DH, more than likely Gomes or Nix would have gotten the nod while Chris collected splinters on the bench.

Gomes played every single AL game as the DH.

His starts were being limited before that, now at least they appear to be giving him spot starts in LF.

Nix is really regressing, he's not an everyday player - e.g. he shouldn't be getting EVERY start vs. RHP.

This is the main reason everyone is clammoring for a Holliday, he could play every day in LF.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Plus Plus
07-03-2009, 01:06 AM
I'm really sorry, I'll try to watch more games and do better the next time. You have made me see the error of my ways. Lets see, with this talented team we are only 1 game over .500 and we are still a whole 2 games out of first place. Baker is really horrible. Too bad we don't have a great manager like old Lou, why look at how great the Cubs are doing.

Its clear that if Hannigan was catching every day and Ramon was on the bench we would have clinched the division by now. No question, that would really make a huge difference. Thanks for showing me how how stupid I am. Please continue to pass along all the great insights you have obtained from watching the games and reading the boxscores.

This response is a little over the top. Even your sarcasm stinks of untruth.

1- the Cubs have an absolutely pathetic team right now. I don't know if Sparky Anderson circa 1975 could do better than Lou is doing with that team. And nobody is clamoring for Baker's head under the premise that we should fire him and steal Lou from the Cubs. I have no idea where that came from.

2- nobody is claiming that Hannigan catching every day over Hernandez would mean that the Reds would be 25 games ahead in the central. However, I think Hannigan has done a lot to warrant more playing time, which should benefit him as a rookie ballplayer and Hernandez as an older veteran. When Hernandez was unable to get a day off due to Votto's absence he went into a prolonged slump. I personally think that the two might be related.

3- Having an obviously uneducated opinion on a baseball team is going to leave you open to criticism. You are making statements that even a cursory look over box scores or watching ESPNEWS or something would prove wrong. This is what happens when you are posting on a forum where a lot of the members are educated fans in regards to their team and follow games on a daily basis.

I am completely unsure where all of this venom came from. People are claiming that this team should be doing better because of lineup construction and players that have no offensive production batting in key spots (see- leadoff). With a better lineup construction, this team could be in first place, maybe by a couple of games. This division is very "competitive" (see- weak). Your statement is absolute nonsense. You got called out for an obvious mistake that could have been prevented by a simple reading of box scores in the sports section for 15 seconds in the morning. You got busted on it, let's move on.

Plus Plus
07-03-2009, 01:07 AM
Gomes played every single AL game as the DH.

His starts were being limited before that, now at least they appear to be giving him spot starts in LF.

Nix is really regressing, he's not an everyday player - e.g. he shouldn't be getting EVERY start vs. RHP.

This is the main reason everyone is clammoring for a Holliday, he could play every day in LF.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

QFT

Nix in the series against the Diamondbacks showed us why we could use a solid, everyday LF like Dye or Holliday.

BluegrassRedleg
07-03-2009, 01:19 AM
If Dickerson keeps doing what he's been doing, he's going to get the playing time. He just needs to avoid that epic slump that he hit earlier this year. If he gets into one of those ruts again, it's going to wipe out all the momentum he's built. Baker may be stubborn and loyal to a fault, but he's no fool.

As for Hanigan, I'd like to see more regular ABs for him, but I also like Hernandez. I still wish we had seen Votto worked into the OF a bit so you could shuffle him and Ramon at 1B and have them both in the lineup with Hanigan behind the dish.

Stormy Weathers
07-03-2009, 01:21 AM
I will take Ramon's 289 average while playing catcher and 321 avg with RISP > Hannigans 336 avg and 160 avg with RISP. Ramon slumped as soon as he had to move to a position he wasnt comfortable with and now he is starting to hit again, but he always hit with RISP and kept that average up even when he struggled at other times.

Plus Plus
07-03-2009, 01:45 AM
I will take Ramon's 289 average while playing catcher and 321 avg with RISP > Hannigans 336 avg and 160 avg with RISP. Ramon slumped as soon as he had to move to a position he wasnt comfortable with and now he is starting to hit again, but he always hit with RISP and kept that average up even when he struggled at other times.

I think that it would be prudent to just play both of them about equally and hope that they produce more due to the time off.

Mutaman
07-03-2009, 02:07 AM
This response is a little over the top. Even your sarcasm stinks of untruth.

1- the Cubs have an absolutely pathetic team right now. I don't know if Sparky Anderson circa 1975 could do better than Lou is doing with that team. And nobody is clamoring for Baker's head under the premise that we should fire him and steal Lou from the Cubs. I have no idea where that came from.

2- nobody is claiming that Hannigan catching every day over Hernandez would mean that the Reds would be 25 games ahead in the central. However, I think Hannigan has done a lot to warrant more playing time, which should benefit him as a rookie ballplayer and Hernandez as an older veteran. When Hernandez was unable to get a day off due to Votto's absence he went into a prolonged slump. I personally think that the two might be related.

3- Having an obviously uneducated opinion on a baseball team is going to leave you open to criticism. You are making statements that even a cursory look over box scores or watching ESPNEWS or something would prove wrong. This is what happens when you are posting on a forum where a lot of the members are educated fans in regards to their team and follow games on a daily basis.

I am completely unsure where all of this venom came from. People are claiming that this team should be doing better because of lineup construction and players that have no offensive production batting in key spots (see- leadoff). With a better lineup construction, this team could be in first place, maybe by a couple of games. This division is very "competitive" (see- weak). Your statement is absolute nonsense. You got called out for an obvious mistake that could have been prevented by a simple reading of box scores in the sports section for 15 seconds in the morning. You got busted on it, let's move on.

1. People call for Baker to be fired here several times a day. Yesterday one guy even called for a curse on Baker and his family. or maybe "If Baker was trying to get fired he couldn't be doing a better job. I wish Walt and the the owners would accomodate him", means something different to you.
My point in bringing up Lou is that while all Reds fans agree that Lou is a terrific manager, right now his record is worse than Bakers. Sorry if I was too subtle for you. And, as an "educated" Reds Fan, do you really believe that the Cubs have less talent than the Reds? What about future Hall of Famer LaRussa? Do you think that without EE, Gonzalez and Volquez, the Reds can come close to matching Pujols and the Cards in talent. Yet Baker has them only 2 games back.

2. Nobodys saying Hannigan shouldn't get more playing time and Baker should be criticised if he doesn't give him more in the future. But the complaint here is about past decisions. Baker has brought Hannigan, a rookie, along just right. Hernandez is a real pro and a terrific pickup, and unlike Ryan, hits with RISP (Freel was released today). Educated statements like " its obvious that Dusty favors Hernandez for some reason" or "Our pitching has stunk with Hernandez behind the plate." illustrate exactly the point I was trying to make. Sorry if I was too complex for you.

3. I made one erroneous statement because I was in a hurry and read the ESPN game log wrong. But you accuse me of makeing erronious "statements". Please explain the other statements I made which were wrong.
Again I apologise for assuming you can read. In post #16 I admitted my mistake and apologised for it. But, 7 hours and 16 posts later, you are still attacking me for my mistake and calling it "absolute nonsense". Then you are telling me to "move on". Then, a short time later, in post 36, you agree with my original position. :confused: Wher's the "untruth".

In any event, to remind you, I was responding to the following statement:

"I sometimes wonder if the people who defend Dusty Baker simply aren't watching the games or reading the box scores and your comments in this thread support that idea."

Sorry, but educated statements like that tend to get me a little poed. in the future, I'll try to suffer fools a little more gladly.

CesarGeronimo
07-03-2009, 02:23 AM
This response is a little over the top. Even your sarcasm stinks of untruth.

1- the Cubs have an absolutely pathetic team right now. I don't know if Sparky Anderson circa 1975 could do better than Lou is doing with that team. And nobody is clamoring for Baker's head under the premise that we should fire him and steal Lou from the Cubs. I have no idea where that came from.

2- nobody is claiming that Hannigan catching every day over Hernandez would mean that the Reds would be 25 games ahead in the central. However, I think Hannigan has done a lot to warrant more playing time, which should benefit him as a rookie ballplayer and Hernandez as an older veteran. When Hernandez was unable to get a day off due to Votto's absence he went into a prolonged slump. I personally think that the two might be related.

3- Having an obviously uneducated opinion on a baseball team is going to leave you open to criticism. You are making statements that even a cursory look over box scores or watching ESPNEWS or something would prove wrong. This is what happens when you are posting on a forum where a lot of the members are educated fans in regards to their team and follow games on a daily basis.

I am completely unsure where all of this venom came from. People are claiming that this team should be doing better because of lineup construction and players that have no offensive production batting in key spots (see- leadoff). With a better lineup construction, this team could be in first place, maybe by a couple of games. This division is very "competitive" (see- weak). Your statement is absolute nonsense. You got called out for an obvious mistake that could have been prevented by a simple reading of box scores in the sports section for 15 seconds in the morning. You got busted on it, let's move on.

This is a really good response. Thank you.

ian_madden
07-03-2009, 02:33 AM
I agree. With the talent on this team we should be well over .500 and comfortably in first place. There is no doubt that with all of the talent we have that if anybody but Baker was managing, this team would have already clinched the division by now.


Well over 500? really dont get me wrong I am a die hard reds fan, but I feel that this team, without good to great pitching, is not a 500 team. The bull pen and starting pitching is what we will be talking about in September if we are still playing relevant games. Not Dusty's managing, or as so many put it, lack there of, or the talent. I feel that we are winning with smoke and mirrors because for the most part we are playing with a AAA team.

I am still excited and feel we are in the right direction. But not there yet.

Mutaman
07-03-2009, 02:40 AM
Well over 500? really dont get me wrong I am a die hard reds fan, but I feel that this team, without good to great pitching, is not a 500 team. The bull pen and starting pitching is what we will be talking about in September if we are still playing relevant games. Not Dusty's managing, or as so many put it, lack there of, or the talent. I feel that we are winning with smoke and mirrors because for the most part we are playing with a AAA team.

I am still excited and feel we are in the right direction. But not there yet.

We are on the same page buddy. I was being facetious.

Kingspoint
07-03-2009, 06:47 PM
Baker may be stubborn and loyal to a fault, but he's no fool.



Only a fool would give the worst regular in the Major Leagues more at-bats than any player on the team when a player with a .200+ OPS and .100+ OBP and is a better defender sits on the bench.

Kingspoint
07-03-2009, 06:49 PM
1. People call for Baker to be fired here several times a day. Yesterday one guy even called for a curse on Baker and his family. or maybe "If Baker was trying to get fired he couldn't be doing a better job. I wish Walt and the the owners would accomodate him", means something different to you.
My point in bringing up Lou is that while all Reds fans agree that Lou is a terrific manager, right now his record is worse than Bakers. Sorry if I was too subtle for you. And, as an "educated" Reds Fan, do you really believe that the Cubs have less talent than the Reds? What about future Hall of Famer LaRussa? Do you think that without EE, Gonzalez and Volquez, the Reds can come close to matching Pujols and the Cards in talent. Yet Baker has them only 2 games back.

2. Nobodys saying Hannigan shouldn't get more playing time and Baker should be criticised if he doesn't give him more in the future. But the complaint here is about past decisions. Baker has brought Hannigan, a rookie, along just right. Hernandez is a real pro and a terrific pickup, and unlike Ryan, hits with RISP (Freel was released today). Educated statements like " its obvious that Dusty favors Hernandez for some reason" or "Our pitching has stunk with Hernandez behind the plate." illustrate exactly the point I was trying to make. Sorry if I was too complex for you.

3. I made one erroneous statement because I was in a hurry and read the ESPN game log wrong. But you accuse me of makeing erronious "statements". Please explain the other statements I made which were wrong.
Again I apologise for assuming you can read. In post #16 I admitted my mistake and apologised for it. But, 7 hours and 16 posts later, you are still attacking me for my mistake and calling it "absolute nonsense". Then you are telling me to "move on". Then, a short time later, in post 36, you agree with my original position. :confused: Wher's the "untruth".

In any event, to remind you, I was responding to the following statement:

"I sometimes wonder if the people who defend Dusty Baker simply aren't watching the games or reading the box scores and your comments in this thread support that idea."

Sorry, but educated statements like that tend to get me a little poed. in the future, I'll try to suffer fools a little more gladly.

We're 2 games back "in spite of" Baker. We'd be 2 games ahead if not for Baker's love of veterans over players he's unfamiliar with.

CesarGeronimo
07-03-2009, 08:01 PM
I will take Ramon's 289 average while playing catcher and 321 avg with RISP > Hannigans 336 avg and 160 avg with RISP. Ramon slumped as soon as he had to move to a position he wasnt comfortable with and now he is starting to hit again, but he always hit with RISP and kept that average up even when he struggled at other times.

Hanigan is 5 of 26 (.192) with runners in scoring position this season. That's obviously not good, but it's also obviously too few chances from which to draw any reasonable judgment (setting aside the fact that some say that avg. with RISP is a dubious stat). Last season, Hanigan was 5 of 18 (.276) for the Reds with runners in scoring position, including 3 of 9 with two outs.

Hernandez has had some big hits for the Reds this season and he should keep getting to play. But Hanigan should also be playing more because he's hitting .324, has gotten on base better than anybody else on the team and has been outstanding defensively. To say he should ride the bench because of his performance in 26 opportunities with runners in scoring position doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Kingspoint
07-03-2009, 08:09 PM
Hanigan is 5 of 26 (.192) with runners in scoring position this season. That's obviously not good, but it's also obviously too few chances from which to draw any reasonable judgment (setting aside the fact that some say that avg. with RISP is a dubious stat). Last season, Hanigan was 5 of 18 (.276) for the Reds with runners in scoring position, including 3 of 9 with two outs.

Hernandez has had some big hits for the Reds this season and he should keep getting to play. But Hanigan should also be playing more because he's hitting .324, has gotten on base better than anybody else on the team and has been outstanding defensively. To say he should ride the bench because of his performance in 26 opportunities with runners in scoring position doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

But, he was 4 for 24, so that means he's .500 in his last two at-bats!

Kingspoint
07-03-2009, 08:10 PM
It's hard to do well with RISP, when you're a .320 hitter and the guy on deck is a pitcher.

You'll be lucky if you get one good pitch to hit.

CesarGeronimo
07-03-2009, 08:13 PM
It's hard to do well with RISP, when you're a .320 hitter and the guy on deck is a pitcher.

You'll be lucky if you get one good pitch to hit.

That's a good point.