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View Full Version : Jocketty pretty upset about losing out on DeRosa



REDblooded
07-04-2009, 12:21 AM
After reading this, and getting the feeling that Jocketty probably considers this to be a very personal rivalry, could tonight be the night that finally ends our Dusty Baker nightmare?

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/bird-land/bird-land/2009/07/dgs-1010-an-audit-at-the-actual-midpoint/



Could it be just a coincidence? Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak (who can be seen here on the video talking about signing Wagner Mateo) said the trade for Mark DeRosa heated up a week ago today, and that he called his counterpart in Cleveland because it was “clear he wanted to do something by the end of the weekend.” Well, who were the Indians playing last weekend? Cincinnati. Who was aggressively trying to work out a trade for DeRosa? Cincinnati. Mozeliak’s mentor, Reds GM Walt Jocketty, has since spoken candidly about his team’s attempt to land the versatile veteran, and there’s even rumblings that he believes what he offered was better than the Cardinals’ package of Chris Perez and a PTBNL. (Not a surprise. Jocketty didn’t hide his opinions of the Cardinals’ farm system when he was in charge of the Cardinals.) It could just have been timing, could just have been a coincidence but as one Cardinals exec said recently “being in the same place always seems to be an advantage.” From our CUBS IN … CATCHUP desk, the Chicago Nationals added their DeRosa on Thursday, trading for Colorado Rockies utility fielder Jeff Baker.

sivman17
07-04-2009, 01:59 AM
well maybe he should quit complaining and finally make a move... what is he waiting for?

Shawn_RedsFan
07-04-2009, 02:04 AM
well maybe he should quit complaining and finally make a move... what is he waiting for?

wow..obviously he is trying to make a move!!!

sivman17
07-04-2009, 02:06 AM
wow..obviously he is trying to make a move!!!

i didn't say "try" to make a move. i said make one

Shawn_RedsFan
07-04-2009, 02:08 AM
i didn't say "try" to make a move. i said make one

do you really think it is that easy to make a move? offer so and so and some cash for holliday?? i mean come on now..be realistic here

GIDP
07-04-2009, 02:09 AM
I just wanted to know why he loves these super subs so much.

Shawn_RedsFan
07-04-2009, 02:16 AM
and also right now if there could only be one choice i would rather have dusty fired than making a trade.

Jack Burton
07-04-2009, 11:35 AM
and also right now if there could only be one choice i would rather have dusty fired than making a trade.

100%
Gotta get dusty out of here before this team can be taken serious. The entire coaching staff needs to get moved.

REDblooded
07-04-2009, 03:05 PM
100%
Gotta get dusty out of here before this team can be taken serious. The entire coaching staff needs to get moved.

Bingo... That was my point... You think if Jocketty is hating the Cardinals right now that he's gonna take a loss like this lightly? I doubt it.

texasdave
07-04-2009, 03:15 PM
Mark DeRosa was the missing piece to the playoff puzzle? Quit joking around, Walt, this is serious.

NorrisHopper30
07-04-2009, 03:33 PM
Yeah let's fire Dusty that'll solve all of our problems.

xavr1
07-04-2009, 03:43 PM
I'd rather get a bat than fire Dusty. Assuming, that is, once we get that bat he actually puts it in the lineup.

blark11
07-04-2009, 04:28 PM
I look at a lot of the names being thrown around and just don't see that much of an upgrade for this team. Nothing I would want to give up a quality prospect for at least. Looking back at the rumored Jermaine Dye for Homer Bailey trade over the offseason reinforces this even more. Now if someone came along dangling a quality shortstop then I would jump on board.

Kingspoint
07-04-2009, 05:00 PM
Instead of whining about woulda, shoulda, coulda, Walt, why don't you do the right thing and get rid of Baker.

Rick Sweet is an excellent Manager, one of the 5 best in all of baseball.

Give him the job. He should have been given it a year-and-a-half ago instead of Baker.

sivman17
07-04-2009, 06:38 PM
quit talking about firing baker. it's not like he is going to be fired while we are sitting around .500. we really do need a bat and that's something that hopefully walt is working on

Kingspoint
07-04-2009, 06:42 PM
quit talking about firing baker. it's not like he is going to be fired while we are sitting around .500. we really do need a bat and that's something that hopefully walt is working on

We don't need a bat. Quit talking about needing a bat.

Old NDN
07-04-2009, 07:01 PM
I'm no Baker fan either, but give him another quality hitter to make this team better.

Shawn_RedsFan
07-04-2009, 11:04 PM
I'm no Baker fan either, but give him another quality hitter to make this team better.

i've been saying this myself for a while now, but does he REALLY need another bat when he usually has a consistent hitter riding the pine every night?

Griffey012
07-04-2009, 11:34 PM
100%
Gotta get dusty out of here before this team can be taken serious. The entire coaching staff needs to get moved.

Because someone else would have us in a better position? Did you see the lineup we survived with while Votto was out? And with Arroyo struggling and Volquez hurt if you told me that before the year i would have said our record would be worse than the pirates.

Sure, Baker makes some bonehead moves that sometime just seem like only he would make. However he has some young guys playing well, Dickerson, Hanigan, Votto is unreal, and Nix has been a surprise. He has gotten production out of submarginal players when they have been called up. I feel like his ability to get guys confident and playing well when called upon cancels out his boneheaded decisions sometimes. I really don't think another manager has us playing any better. But if you have some names, I would like to see them

Carin4Narron
07-05-2009, 01:24 PM
well maybe he should quit complaining and finally make a move... what is he waiting for? EXACTLY

do you really think it is that easy to make a move? In a word, Yes!

Rick Sweet is an excellent Manager, one of the 5 best in all of baseball.

Give him the job. He should have been given it a year-and-a-half ago instead of Baker. Please! Do you want to see the Reds to be a Minor League Run team in the majors the rest of your life?

We don't need a bat. Quit talking about needing a bat. I am with you bro! The Reds need 1 more starting pitcher and a atitude adjustment before they can even think of making a playoff run!

Griffey012
07-05-2009, 04:37 PM
well maybe he should quit complaining and finally make a move... what is he waiting for? EXACTLY

do you really think it is that easy to make a move? In a word, Yes!

Rick Sweet is an excellent Manager, one of the 5 best in all of baseball.

Give him the job. He should have been given it a year-and-a-half ago instead of Baker. Please! Do you want to see the Reds to be a Minor League Run team in the majors the rest of your life?

We don't need a bat. Quit talking about needing a bat. I am with you bro! The Reds need 1 more starting pitcher and a atitude adjustment before they can even think of making a playoff run!

Wow, if he was top 5 in all of baseball wouldn't he be in the bigs somewhere?

Kingspoint
07-05-2009, 05:07 PM
Because someone else would have us in a better position?


100% without a doubt.

sivman17
07-05-2009, 05:09 PM
We don't need a bat. Quit talking about needing a bat.


what??? :confused:

have you watched any reds games this year?

Kingspoint
07-05-2009, 05:09 PM
Wow, if he was top 5 in all of baseball wouldn't he be in the bigs somewhere?

Absolutely not.

It's a good-old boys club. Until you're in, you're out. This is so commonly accepted I'm surprised you asked.

That's why such an inept guy like Baker got millions to give a performance than any clown could achieve.

GIDP
07-05-2009, 05:11 PM
I just want to know where DeRosa was going to play. I see no real openings unless they are going to bench someone making millions which Dusty has shown no willingness to do.

Kingspoint
07-05-2009, 05:11 PM
what??? :confused:

have you watched any reds games this year?

The bats have been sitting on the bench for such a large portion of the season, that playing the right bats and sitting the right bats would have resulted in at least a half-a-dozen more wins, putting the REDS in sole posession of 1st place. 2 wins more a month would have been achieved had the proper bats been used that are already on the team.

sivman17
07-05-2009, 05:21 PM
The bats have been sitting on the bench for such a large portion of the season, that playing the right bats and sitting the right bats would have resulted in at least a half-a-dozen more wins, putting the REDS in sole posession of 1st place. 2 wins more a month would have been achieved had the proper bats been used that are already on the team.

wrong.. as much as i hate seeing hanigan and gomes sitting on the bench while they are hitting as well as they have, there's no way they would have 6 more wins. we might have 6 fewer wins had the right bats not been played in some other games. i don't like dusty, but i don't see why we should waste time talking about firing him when we all know he will not be canned

Griffey012
07-05-2009, 05:21 PM
The bats have been sitting on the bench for such a large portion of the season, that playing the right bats and sitting the right bats would have resulted in at least a half-a-dozen more wins, putting the REDS in sole posession of 1st place. 2 wins more a month would have been achieved had the proper bats been used that are already on the team.

Who are these bats you speak of?

And who are these managers that would have us in a better place with the crappy lineup we were forced to run out there for a stretch of about 20-30 games?

jimbo
07-05-2009, 05:38 PM
Absolutely not.

It's a good-old boys club. Until you're in, you're out. This is so commonly accepted I'm surprised you asked.

That's why such an inept guy like Baker got millions to give a performance than any clown could achieve.

Nonsense, there have been plenty of coaches over the years who have gotten their chances who were not part of the "club," as you put it, A.J. Hinch being a more recent example. I remember hearing all of the hype about Davey Miley back in the day and look where he's at.

Baker gets paid millions because of his past results, plain and simple. Anyone who can look at this year's team objectively can see that Dusty has done a pretty good job overall. I'm not saying he is perfect, who is? I've had my issues with some of his decision making from time to time, but overall I'm happy with him. Some just can't get past their ego and blind hatred for the guy to come up with a fair assessment.

Kingspoint
07-05-2009, 05:47 PM
Who are these bats you speak of?

And who are these managers that would have us in a better place with the crappy lineup we were forced to run out there for a stretch of about 20-30 games?


I posted them on the thread about the Sagarin Ratings. It's pretty clear in that thread.

Carin4Narron
07-05-2009, 06:06 PM
Wow, if he was top 5 in all of baseball wouldn't he be in the bigs somewhere?

That was my point,dude. The Reds have been down that path with Dave show no emotion Miley

Griffey012
07-05-2009, 06:22 PM
That was my point,dude. The Reds have been down that path with Dave show no emotion Miley

I completely missed the sarcasm in your previous post then, my mistake. Glad to know we are on the same page then.

Griffey012
07-05-2009, 06:30 PM
I posted them on the thread about the Sagarin Ratings. It's pretty clear in that thread.

It posted a list of the sagarin numbers, not about who playing where would fix our offense. I understand Taveras needs to be out and some form of Dickerson, Gomes, and Nix should be manning LF/CF. But we have to play a SS and a 3B and right now nobody from any of those spots is doing anything worthy offensively. Gomes has a great rating because he has mainly only played against lefties and should remain that way, and the same for Nix against lefties. Dickerson starting out struggling a bit and has since found his stroke and has been getting regular playing time since then.

Outside of Taveras what is your fix?

sivman17
07-05-2009, 10:37 PM
It's pretty clear in that thread.

yeah, it's REAL clear in there :thumbdown

Jr's Boy
07-06-2009, 02:18 AM
Instead of whining about woulda, shoulda, coulda, Walt, why don't you do the right thing and get rid of Baker.

Rick Sweet is an excellent Manager, one of the 5 best in all of baseball.

Give him the job. He should have been given it a year-and-a-half ago instead of Baker.



Same thing was said about Dave Miley as well.


Despite costing Homer and the Reds the game the other night,I like Dusty.The Reds are still in the hunt and it's July,taking for granted no team has run away with the division,but with the injury's the team has had,and having to ''duct tape''lineups through the months,Dusty is done his job in my opinion.

travisgrimes
07-06-2009, 02:19 AM
if walt was so upset than he needs to one up the cardinals and go get a BIGGER bat someone like Matt Holliday

Kingspoint
07-07-2009, 03:29 PM
Same thing was said about Dave Miley as well.




Never heard that around Cincinnati forums back then. At least not as a "consensus" opinion. You'll always get all possible opinions, so I'm sure that a few people might have said it. I'll take your word for it.

But, I know Rick Sweet very well, probably better than 98% of those that follow baseball. I've followed him around his stints after he left the Major Leagues. I've talked to him one-on-one many times. He's truly a great Manager, but not because he talked to me. But, because of how I've watched him work with his AAA teams and players. Very, very difficult with all of the movement that goes on. It's the last place where players get to correct their mistakes in order to prove themselves capable of being Major League players. He's excellent at helping players make adjustments to their games. We gain a lot by keeping him at AAA. Those players will just be prepared that much better for the bigs. Just don't know how much longer he'll be there, though. If we don't offer him a Major League job, someone else will at some point over the next 5 years. You just can't keep rehashing the same old veteran coaches who continue to prove incapable of getting the most out of a team.

Getting outscored 32-2 over your last two games is not a good thing. And, this just a few days after a long meeting led by Baker. Just not confident that Baker is anything more than an average-at-best Major League Manager. I like how he's handled the pitching this season. He's changed from when he was in San Francisco. I hated how he handled his pitchers in San Francisco. I watched him on a daily basis there. You know how Chicago feels about his time in Chicago.

Anyway. We're in great hands with Rick Sweet, whether he's in AAA, or in Cincinnati.