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WVRedsFan
07-04-2009, 03:46 PM
AS per usual, Willy T flies out ot center and 2 are stranded. That situation (2 on and 1 out) just keeps getting replayed over and over with the result (if the top of the order is coming up) is failure.

Kc61
07-04-2009, 03:47 PM
I think finding out if CD can hit LH's with a 3 run lead is the right move.

Well, he's found it out. Dickerson takes called third strike.

Dusty gave away a run there IMO. And they wouldn't walk Gomes because that means Votto hits. Incorrect decision IMO.

That's why you have a bench, Dusty.

HokieRed
07-04-2009, 03:47 PM
Ridiculous that he didn't pinch hit for CD. This one's squarely on Dusty now.

WVRedsFan
07-04-2009, 03:48 PM
CoCo on in the 9th. :yikes:

PuffyPig
07-04-2009, 03:48 PM
AS per usual, Willy T flies out ot center and 2 are stranded. That situation (2 on and 1 out) just keeps getting replayed over and over with the result (if the top of the order is coming up) is failure.

Hard to blame WT, he hit a nice line drive for a change.

SirFelixCat
07-04-2009, 03:48 PM
1-2-3 and Pujols wouldn't bat :)

Falls City Beer
07-04-2009, 03:48 PM
You just know the first two are going to reach.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2009, 03:49 PM
If Casey would have been the manager he would have PH Enos Slaughter for Johnny Mize....or Earl Weaver would have PH Benny Ayala for John Lowenstien. :p:

Falls City Beer
07-04-2009, 03:49 PM
Cordero does what he never does: retires the leadoff batter.

SirFelixCat
07-04-2009, 03:49 PM
Ridiculous that he didn't pinch hit for CD. This one's squarely on Dusty now.

And I disagree. I think leaving CD in was the right play. Not just to find out if he can hit lefties, but also for his defense on a wet track out there in the 9th.

IMO, Dusty made the far-and-away correct call here today, both w/ Massett and leaving CD in.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2009, 03:50 PM
Look....even a 1983 Tom Hume could hold a 3 run lead....so if Cordero cannot do that....it's on him, not Dusty.

SirFelixCat
07-04-2009, 03:50 PM
Very nice!

First defensive play for EdE today and and easy out.

2 down!

HokieRed
07-04-2009, 03:50 PM
And I disagree. I think leaving CD in was the right play. Not just to find out if he can hit lefties, but also for his defense on a wet track out there in the 9th.

IMO, Dusty made the far-and-away correct call here today, both w/ Massett and leaving CD in.


Can't agree at all. If you put up two more runs, it's very unlikely the defense matters in the 9th. This team repeatedly fails to bring in runs from 3rd or 2nd and 3rd with less than two outs. Eventually it catches up.

Kc61
07-04-2009, 03:50 PM
Two out. If Reds hold on then Owings gets kudos because it was tought to pitch so well in the rain after last night's debacle. Let's go Coco.

jojo
07-04-2009, 03:51 PM
Strasburg or Homer? I'd take Strasburg.

nate
07-04-2009, 03:52 PM
Cordero, 1-2-3. Reds win by 3!

kaldaniels
07-04-2009, 03:52 PM
Strasburg or Homer? I'd take Strasburg.

Are you figuring in the dollars Strasburg will command?

BCubb2003
07-04-2009, 03:52 PM
"We're great again!"

WVRedsFan
07-04-2009, 03:52 PM
Cordero automatic for a change. Reds win and go back to 1 over.

Good win.

Tom Servo
07-04-2009, 03:52 PM
Reds win. Back to the Twilight Zone marathon for me.

SirFelixCat
07-04-2009, 03:53 PM
Can't agree at all. If you put up two more runs, it's very unlikely the defense matters in the 9th. This team repeatedly fails to bring in runs from 3rd or 2nd and 3rd with less than two outs. Eventually it catches up.

I can see both sides of this...

But weren't people saying that if you have to PH for your leadoff hitter, he shouldn't be leading off? Just sayin'. We'll agree to disagree on that one.


Big, big win for the boys today after yesterday!

Happy Independence Day, everyone!


Off to the drive in tonight w/ the gf!

oneupper
07-04-2009, 03:53 PM
BIG win. Particularly with a tough matchup tomorrow.

reds44
07-04-2009, 03:53 PM
This team has a gigantic pair of stones. Could not be more impressed with the effort today, and you have to give a lot of credit to Owings. Normally I'd mark tomorrow down for an L, but you never know with this team.

Back to 2 out.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2009, 03:53 PM
I am sorry FCB....what was that again you said? :D

Falls City Beer
07-04-2009, 03:53 PM
The Reds are now 5-4 against the Cards on the season. I do wish the Reds played their division more.

Kc61
07-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Can't agree at all. If you put up two more runs, it's very unlikely the defense matters in the 9th. This team repeatedly fails to bring in runs from 3rd or 2nd and 3rd with less than two outs. Eventually it catches up.

Defense always matters, but I agree that Dusty should have hit for CD. Meanwhile, a good win and Owings is starting to show some consistency which is great.

Reds had no leverage when they traded Dunn and Griffey who were going to walk anyway. Getting Massett and Owings was good.

jojo
07-04-2009, 03:55 PM
Are you figuring in the dollars Strasburg will command?

Yes... the imaginary Homer of Chris' hypothetical wouldn't be a cheap signing either BTW.

Falls City Beer
07-04-2009, 03:55 PM
Defense always matters, but I agree that Dusty should have hit for CD. Meanwhile, a good win and Owings is starting to show some consistency which is great.

Reds had no leverage when they traded Dunn and Griffey who were going to walk anyway. Getting Massett and Owings was good.

That's a mild understatement.

Gallen5862
07-04-2009, 03:57 PM
'And This One Belongs To The Reds." Great job by Owings today.

traderumor
07-04-2009, 03:58 PM
Ok, stat finders, how do the Reds compare against norms for not getting runners in from 3rd with less than two outs?

PuffyPig
07-04-2009, 04:00 PM
Owings now 6-7 as a starter for us, and we've won 7 of his15 starts.

Last year, we had 4 wins (IIRC) out of the #5 spot vs. 21 losses.

redsfandan
07-04-2009, 04:06 PM
Ok, stat finders, how do the Reds compare against norms for not getting runners in from 3rd with less than two outs?
I checked and couldn't find that stat for the team. Maybe someone else can find it.

Tony Cloninger
07-04-2009, 04:10 PM
I don't have to see the stats....i know what i sees. :owned:

TheNext44
07-04-2009, 04:11 PM
Can't agree at all. If you put up two more runs, it's very unlikely the defense matters in the 9th. This team repeatedly fails to bring in runs from 3rd or 2nd and 3rd with less than two outs. Eventually it catches up.

Bring in Gomes, and LaRussa brings in a righty. The odds of Gomes getting a hit against a RH (.221 .313 .432) are actually worse than Dickerson getting a hit off a LH (.277 .397 .362)

Even if La Russa leaves the lefty, Gomes only hits righties .278 .376 .522. You get more slugging, but less OBP, and give up defense in the 9th. Plus by keeping Dickerson in against a tough lefty, you give him needed experience.

traderumor
07-04-2009, 04:11 PM
I checked and couldn't find that stat for the team. Maybe someone else can find it.ESPN has team situationals. What I discovered is that our OPS with runners in scoring position is only .003 points less than our overall, so the jest of it is, the offense struggles, no matter where the runners are positioned. Weak outs don't get runners in from third or get guys on base in the first place.

VR
07-04-2009, 04:14 PM
Owings at #34 in the NL for ERA
#21 for wins


He has really been a critical part of this year's success. Needless to say, he brings a high level of passion and guts as well.....not sure where he ranks for those though ;)

reds44
07-04-2009, 04:24 PM
He brings a full passion bucket lol

lollipopcurve
07-04-2009, 04:24 PM
Owings kicks butt on the baseball field.

HokieRed
07-04-2009, 05:16 PM
Bring in Gomes, and LaRussa brings in a righty. The odds of Gomes getting a hit against a RH (.221 .313 .432) are actually worse than Dickerson getting a hit off a LH (.277 .397 .362)

Even if La Russa leaves the lefty, Gomes only hits righties .278 .376 .522. You get more slugging, but less OBP, and give up defense in the 9th. Plus by keeping Dickerson in against a tough lefty, you give him needed experience.


No he doesn't. He'd just brought in the lefty.

Bob Borkowski
07-04-2009, 07:10 PM
I didn't get to see any of today's game. I read the game thread from beginning to end. Good job!

I'm wondering though...were the last 4 innings played in a steady rain?

Big Klu
07-04-2009, 10:14 PM
I can see both sides of the argument, and both sides have merit.

1) With a three-run lead, leave Dickerson in to gain experience vs. LHP, and keep his defense in LF. This can also help build Dickerson's confidence, as it shows that Dusty believes in him.

2) Use Gomes to PH for Dickerson vs. the LHP. LaRussa has to keep the lefty in there against Gomes, as he just brought him into the game. Gomes has a better chance than Dickerson to add another run (or two or three) to the lead. The downside is the defensive dropoff from Dickerson to Gomes--however, Nix is already in the game, having PH for Rhodes, so Dusty could double switch and put Nix in LF, and put Cordero in the #1 spot. The defensive dropoff from Dickerson to Nix is less, and may be worth the move to get Gomes' bat in the game at that point.


There are good arguments for both options. I was leaning toward #2 during the game, but I can't fault Dusty for choosing #1. And everything worked out in the end, anyway.

membengal
07-04-2009, 10:56 PM
I didn't get to see any of today's game. I read the game thread from beginning to end. Good job!

I'm wondering though...were the last 4 innings played in a steady rain?

The whole game was. The rain fell heavier as the game wore on.

traderumor
07-04-2009, 11:33 PM
I can see both sides of the argument, and both sides have merit.

1) With a three-run lead, leave Dickerson in to gain experience vs. LHP, and keep his defense in LF. This can also help build Dickerson's confidence, as it shows that Dusty believes in him.

2) Use Gomes to PH for Dickerson vs. the LHP. LaRussa has to keep the lefty in there against Gomes, as he just brought him into the game. Gomes has a better chance than Dickerson to add another run (or two or three) to the lead. The downside is the defensive dropoff from Dickerson to Gomes--however, Nix is already in the game, having PH for Rhodes, so Dusty could double switch and put Nix in LF, and put Cordero in the #1 spot. The defensive dropoff from Dickerson to Nix is less, and may be worth the move to get Gomes' bat in the game at that point.


There are good arguments for both options. I was leaning toward #2 during the game, but I can't fault Dusty for choosing #1. And everything worked out in the end, anyway.Plus, I've read where pinch hitting for your leadoff hitter is a sign that player should not be leading off. So, there are times when pinch hitting for your leadoff hitter is necessary?

Big Klu
07-05-2009, 01:32 AM
Plus, I've read where pinch hitting for your leadoff hitter is a sign that player should not be leading off. So, there are times when pinch hitting for your leadoff hitter is necessary?

Astonishing, isn't it?

PuffyPig
07-05-2009, 09:59 AM
Plus, I've read where pinch hitting for your leadoff hitter is a sign that player should not be leading off.


It's really a silly statement.

There are lots of good leadoff men (I'm not talking Taveras)who hit leadoff because they have a very good OBA and good speed.

When the time comes when you are looking to drive in a runner from third, they may be a poor choice for that chore. Especially with a LOOGY in the game.

Leaving Dickerson in the game simply because he is the leadoff hitter is a poor choice. Leaving him in the game for the variuos reasons mentioned is defensible.

GAC
07-05-2009, 10:25 AM
Went to Saturday's game with the kids and Chip, and had great field level seats along 3B.

I thought Owings pitched pretty good after giving up that early Hr. Of course he canceled that one out by hitting a nice Hr himself.

Joey Votto is just unreal. I referred to him as our "Albert Pujols", and some Card fans sitting behind us agreed.

nate
07-05-2009, 10:26 AM
Joey Votto is just unreal. I referred to him as our "Albert Pujols", and some Card fans sitting behind us agreed.

George Grande?

:cool: