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View Full Version : Harang for Kemp?



travisgrimes
07-04-2009, 08:54 PM
A post in the ORG says a deal is in the works that would be essentially Harang to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp. Supposedly its a weak rumor and was mentioned on the FOX telecast. I LOVE this deal as I have been a Kemp fan ever since he came up. He is fast, good defensively, has good power and really does everything you need your CF to do. I would love the deal to look like this:

Cincinnati Reds trade SP Aaron Harang to the Los Angeles Dodgers for CF Matt Kemp, SP Josh Lindblom and SS Dee Gordon

Pony Boy
07-04-2009, 08:56 PM
I'm not sure that the Dodgers would be the team that had to throw in the sweetners given the vast salary and age advantage that Kemp has over Harang.

redsfanmia
07-04-2009, 08:57 PM
Do it and do it now.

corwinator3407
07-04-2009, 08:57 PM
I'm not sure that the Dodgers would be the team that had to throw in the sweetners given the vast salary and age advantage that Kemp has over Harang.

Agreed. And as weak as the rumor sounds, I don't see it as anything more.

Orodle
07-04-2009, 09:35 PM
I'm not ready to trade Harang. One good start by Bailey doesnt mean all of a sudden that will be the norm for him and what if Volquez runs into a bump on his return? Combine that with Arroyo getting blasted and what was our strength (starting pitching) is middle of the road.

jmac
07-04-2009, 09:41 PM
I would rather it be Kemp for BA but if it was BA , then I am sure it wouldnt be Kemp. ;)
Boy, an OF of Dickerson, Kemp, Bruce sounds gooood.

Aces Wild
07-04-2009, 09:43 PM
I'm not ready to trade Harang. One good start by Bailey doesnt mean all of a sudden that will be the norm for him and what if Volquez runs into a bump on his return? Combine that with Arroyo getting blasted and what was our strength (starting pitching) is middle of the road.


We have allowed the 4th fewest runs against in NL........hardly middle of the road. The problem is we have scored the 4th fewest runs in NL as well. We've got to upgrade the offense, and that means unloading either Harang or Arroyo to acquire talent and unload salary for FA next season. Considering Arroyo has the trade value of a pimple right now that leaves Harang. I love Aaron, but we have arms in the minors ready to replace him for less $$$. It's time to move him if the right deal presents itself................Kemp would be such a deal.

The problem is no way do the Dodgers trade a future AS for a 31 year old pitcher on the decline. We would have to add a couple of prospects as well, and I am hesitant to give up that much even for a legit stud like Kemp.

NeilHamburger
07-04-2009, 09:53 PM
I don't buy LA even considering it. Kemp is a younger version of Phillips, only with better plate discipline and a higher ceiling. I mean the guy is a potential 40-40 guy in GABP.

Hell, this year alone he's on pace to hit .300 with 20 plus HR's, 40 steals and have an OBP of .370 at 24. In GABP he'd probably be at 30 HR's within a year. And on his best year could approach that 40-40 level.

Plus Plus
07-04-2009, 10:06 PM
I for sure think this is a possible deal, especially since the LAD starters (sans Billingsley) all are 5IP and done, and they have what they view as a glut of OF (Ethier, Ramirez, Kemp, Pierre LOL). However, I think it is probably Harang plus flak for Kemp plus flak (or cash), if it is even being mentioned.

Bronson probably couldn't be traded anywhere without the Reds eating a vast amount of salary or taking on horrible players.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-04-2009, 10:06 PM
Not going to happen, I almost expect zero moves, except maybe a couple minor ones for the Reds.

Pony Boy
07-04-2009, 10:38 PM
Although I think that the Reds would have to throw in a sweetner or two to get Kemp. I don't think this trade sounds that unrealistic. Harang would be a huge upgrade to their rotation and they are thinking WS this year. They are going to have to give tremendous value to get an arm of Harang's caliber. If they think they have 4 starting caliber out fielders then it makes sense to deal one.

GIDP
07-04-2009, 10:40 PM
Id do it for a number of reason.

xavr1
07-04-2009, 10:51 PM
I would be shocked if the Dodgers were really considering moving Kemp. He and Ethier are basically the entire future of that team. I would love to see him as a Red though! He can do it all, and once he cuts down on the Ks will be one of the best hitters in the League.

Plus Plus
07-04-2009, 10:54 PM
Is there anything that separates the value of Kemp and Ethier to anyone's knowledge?

GIDP
07-05-2009, 12:02 AM
Actually if we did this and just threw him in left field id be pretty mad.

Plus Plus
07-05-2009, 12:18 AM
...Why? I know he is a CF, but still...

GIDP
07-05-2009, 12:20 AM
...Why? I know he is a CF, but still...

Because he wouldnt improve us that much this year, and it means we will trade a good starting pitcher and still have the worst CFer in baseball.

Plus Plus
07-05-2009, 12:26 AM
But it would substantially improve the ballclub for years and years to come- Kemp is a superstar in the making, and could put up massive numbers and excellent defense in GABP.

travisgrimes
07-05-2009, 12:31 AM
and not only for the future but now... you have to believe he is an upgrade over Taveras and he would start everyday in CF and dickerson in LF.... im sorry guys but Stubbs and Heisey dont impress me one bit so we are in need of a young CF

BluegrassRedleg
07-05-2009, 03:31 AM
You do this in a heartbeat.

That being said, I can't see the Dodgers being willing to deal Kemp for Harang. He's an emerging 5-tool star. The Reds would certainly have to sweeten it with top prospects.

Griffey012
07-05-2009, 03:44 AM
and not only for the future but now... you have to believe he is an upgrade over Taveras and he would start everyday in CF and dickerson in LF.... im sorry guys but Stubbs and Heisey dont impress me one bit so we are in need of a young CF

bold statement, what exactly do they have to do to impress you at the AA and AAA levels? I suppose you could make the argument Stubbs has not been impressing due to his .275/.365/.375 line in AAA. But goodness, what else can Heisey do? He is doing it all at every level right now.

Gary Redus
07-05-2009, 09:20 AM
This is a trade you have to do. Harang has been durable but he is no longer excellent. I'd rather try to insert Bronson here with some minors thrown in but I'd do Harang for Kemp.

schmidty622
07-05-2009, 09:33 AM
This is not a real trade rumor and will never happen. I haven't read anything about Kemp being available and I think they'd be looking for a greater return than just Harang.

Plus Plus
07-05-2009, 10:45 AM
There IS no greater return than Harang, though. Cleveland won't trade Lee, Toronto won't trade Holliday, Houston won't trade Oswalt. The story all along this offseason was that the best starting pitcher would be Jarrod Washburn, and Seattle is still in the race and would probably not trade him. Harang is miles ahead of Washburn IMO.

It will take way more than major/minor league flak to get Harang, who would step in as the #2 starter in their rotation. It would probably take a MLB ready high-ceiling player, which on LAD would simply be limited to Kemp, Ethier, or Martin- maybe you can lump Loney in here as well. Kemp and Ethier make the most sense out of those, especially since the Dodgers have a good OF prospect waiting in the wings in Andrew Lambo. If you don't feel like Harang for Kemp is fair in light of this, keep in mind that the Dodgers don't have a whole lot of bullpen depth in front of Broxton- maybe a solid bullpen arm could be added to the equation.

Old NDN
07-05-2009, 11:17 AM
Pull the trigger now, before the Dodgers change their mind ( if this is really a possibility). You're going to have to give up some quality to get quality. Forget free agents next year. Who in their right mind would want to play in Cincy, unless you overpaid? The Reds are as close to a division lead as they have been in a while. They may not get another opportunity. Next year is just that...next year. Other teams in this division aren't going to stand pat and are constantly trying to get better. Why can't we? I don't want to just compete. The Reds have a chance to win in this division now, even with the obvious holes in the lineup.

JayBruce
07-05-2009, 12:26 PM
Cincinnati Reds trade SP Aaron Harang to the Los Angeles Dodgers for CF Matt Kemp, SP Josh Lindblom and SS Dee Gordon

So not only do the Dodgers give up a 24 year old future all-star center fielder for a declining #3 starter, they also give up 2 of their top 10 prospects as well? Unless you've recently accepted the position of general manager for the Los Angeles Dodgers, I don't think this one would go through.

Even a straight up Kemp-for-Harang deal would never be made, and here's why: Ned Colletti is a lot smarter than Reds fans who perpetuate stupid trade rumors like this.

xavr1
07-05-2009, 12:28 PM
There IS no greater return than Harang, though. Cleveland won't trade Lee, Toronto won't trade Holliday, Houston won't trade Oswalt. The story all along this offseason was that the best starting pitcher would be Jarrod Washburn, and Seattle is still in the race and would probably not trade him. Harang is miles ahead of Washburn IMO.


I actually heard Lee was available.

GIDP
07-05-2009, 12:32 PM
Harang would be the Dodgers 2nd best pitcher... Pretty impressive considering all you guys consider him a declining #3

Harang is the 24th best pitcher in the NL when you look at ERA.

Pretty impressive for being just a declining #3.

JayBruce
07-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Harang would be the Dodgers 2nd best pitcher... Pretty impressive considering all you guys consider him a declining #3

Harang is the 24th best pitcher in the NL when you look at ERA.

Pretty impressive for being just a declining #3.

Your rationale for Harang's value is him being the 24th best pitcher in the National league? He might be an upgrade for what they already have, but that doesn't mean they'll over-value him and make an absurd trade in a desperate attempt to win a ring.

GIDP
07-05-2009, 12:43 PM
Your rationale for Harang's value is him being the 24th best pitcher in the National league? He might be an upgrade for what they already have, but that doesn't mean they'll over-value him and make an absurd trade in a desperate attempt to win a ring.

The rational that hes close to being a #4 is nuts.

Hes a #2 on pretty much every team in the NL and a #1 on probably half of them.

Plus Plus
07-05-2009, 12:50 PM
So not only do the Dodgers give up a 24 year old future all-star center fielder for a declining #3 starter, they also give up 2 of their top 10 prospects as well? Unless you've recently accepted the position of general manager for the Los Angeles Dodgers, I don't think this one would go through.

Even a straight up Kemp-for-Harang deal would never be made, and here's why: Ned Colletti is a lot smarter than Reds fans who perpetuate stupid trade rumors like this.

This rumor of Harang (+flak) for Kemp (+flak) is hardly stupid-- I have seen it being discussed in passing on Dodgers forums. The Dodgers' rotation is currently:

Billingsley
Kershaw
Kuroda
Wolf
Fifth Starter X (Milton?)

Billingsley is an incredible talent.
Kershaw is 21 and can't get out of the 5th inning with regularity.
Kuroda is an injury magnet and is not overpowering at all.
Wolf is a good player who will keep his team in games, but is hardly dominating.
Fifth Starter X is a game that nobody likes to play, especially when your pieces have the name "Milton" attached to them.

The fact of the matter is that the Dodgers might see this year as being the year to win the title, before things start happening to their team that would cause their window to close (see- manram declining severely). This trade is miles away from some of the trade rumors that are propogated on RedsZone and on call-in radio programs, which usually consist of Gonzalez/Arroyo for Hanley Ramirez or something of the like. This is a guy who would step in and be their #2, and would give them a real chance to win a title- a very valuable commodity, especially when the SP that is potentially available is not a large market. Sure, Lee "might" be available, but he would probably end up demanding a much higher return than Harang, as he is coming off of a AL Cy Young award.

Why is Harang for Kemp straight up so bad for the Dodgers? They have a big prospect in the wings to play OF and it seems that they really want to keep Pierre on the field (for some reason unknown to me).

JayBruce
07-05-2009, 12:52 PM
The rational that hes close to being a #4 is nuts.

Hes a #2 on pretty much every team in the NL and a #1 on probably half of them.

He's 31 years old. He's clearly declining from what he was a few years ago, unless I'm watching a different pitcher than everyone else.

Sure, he has some value and could help a lot of teams. But assuming he goes to a legit contender, he wouldn't be their #1 starter. And I certainly don't think he nets a beckoning star like a Matt Kemp, unless the Dodgers are that desperate to get Juan Pierre in the lineup...

Fullboat
07-05-2009, 12:54 PM
So if the Reds get Kemp for Harang(Count me in)were does he bat?Common sense says
4rth but Dusty is thinking 5th or 6th because BP is this teams Cleanup hitter.:rolleyes:

GIDP
07-05-2009, 01:12 PM
He's 31 years old. He's clearly declining from what he was a few years ago, unless I'm watching a different pitcher than everyone else.

Sure, he has some value and could help a lot of teams. But assuming he goes to a legit contender, he wouldn't be their #1 starter. And I certainly don't think he nets a beckoning star like a Matt Kemp, unless the Dodgers are that desperate to get Juan Pierre in the lineup...

Some value? The dude is a #2 on every team in baseball outside of maybe 2 teams, not to mention hes signed to a pretty decent contract. He had a bad year last year but come on.

xavr1
07-05-2009, 02:07 PM
I know the Dodgers need a SP, and I know Harang is a good one. What doesnt make sense about the deal to me is that the organization has been breeding Kemp for a long time now, he is finally starting to pay off for them, and he is a lynchpin for the future. It would be like us dealing Votto to address some need for the rest of the season. Granted, we dont have a backup for him, but the Dodgers backup is Juan Pierre who, although he has played well this year has been declining annually.

Maybe this deal is legitimately being discussed, but I'm skeptical it will ever gain traction. If it does, I'll happily say you told me so.

travisgrimes
07-06-2009, 02:29 PM
they have a boat load of high-caliber young outfielders in the minors just waiting for their chance and if i'm not mistaken their best prospect in their system is a CF who is about to be ready

BLEEDS
07-06-2009, 04:09 PM
can you link to the discussion(s) in the ORG please?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

SoTxRedsFan
07-06-2009, 04:47 PM
He's 31 years old. He's clearly declining from what he was a few years ago, unless I'm watching a different pitcher than everyone else.

Sure, he has some value and could help a lot of teams. But assuming he goes to a legit contender, he wouldn't be their #1 starter. And I certainly don't think he nets a beckoning star like a Matt Kemp, unless the Dodgers are that desperate to get Juan Pierre in the lineup...

Harang is the #2 starter in LA the day he suits up. As many have pointed out already, outside of Billingsley they don't have a true innings eating workhorse. With their Manny Championship Window closing in a year or two this trade makes a ton of sense for them.

JayBruce
07-06-2009, 06:24 PM
they have a boat load of high-caliber young outfielders in the minors just waiting for their chance and if i'm not mistaken their best prospect in their system is a CF who is about to be ready

Incorrect.

Their best prospect at the moment is probably Devaris Gordon, the shortstop. Unless they don't think he can stick there, in which case I guess he could play CF. Their other top OF prospects are corner guys.

I just don't see them giving up an 24 year old All-Star centerfielder for Harang, as good as he may be. Kemp to the Reds seems to come up every year on this board, and every year he remains a Dodger.

BLEEDS
07-06-2009, 06:41 PM
Incorrect.

Their best prospect at the moment is probably Devaris Gordon, the shortstop. Unless they don't think he can stick there, in which case I guess he could play CF. Their other top OF prospects are corner guys.

I just don't see them giving up an 24 year old All-Star centerfielder for Harang, as good as he may be. Kemp to the Reds seems to come up every year on this board, and every year he remains a Dodger.

Were you operating incognito prior to October 2008?!?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BEETTLEBUG
07-06-2009, 06:54 PM
can you link to the discussion(s) in the ORG please?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Just leave it here where I can make inputs.

Ohioballplayer
07-08-2009, 01:05 PM
Well obviously this trade only happens if the Dodgers dont go after Halladay now, and you can be sure they will be in the mix!!