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View Full Version : What do you thjink we could get for Brandon Phillips



BigJohn
07-06-2009, 10:53 AM
Janish is as good as Phillips and we may be able to get a bat for BP.

Look at BP's WAR

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/p/philb001.htm

sivman17
07-06-2009, 11:12 AM
i would never want to trade away phillips

bgwilly31
07-06-2009, 11:17 AM
janish as good as phillips! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

mrherd05
07-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhaahhahahah

mroby85
07-06-2009, 01:08 PM
Wow

FlyerFanatic
07-06-2009, 01:14 PM
Janish is as good as Phillips and we may be able to get a bat for BP.

Look at BP's WAR

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/p/philb001.htm

FAIL

BLEEDS
07-06-2009, 01:31 PM
I assume he meant he was as good as him defensively, and that is very arguable, although many people have said 2B is the easiest position to replace, I fully appreciate his GG there.

However, I don't think the chiding was fully due.

There will come a time, soon, where the FO will be asking the same question (what can we get for BP) because his bat will not warrant what we are currently paying for his glove.
I.E. $6.75M (in 2010) is worth a GG and a 1 WAR bat;
$11.0M (in 2011) is not worth a GG and a 1 WAR bat.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

texasdave
07-06-2009, 01:37 PM
Would you do Brandon Phillips for Yunel Escobar? I would. It would solve our SS problem for a number of years. Yunel is just as good or better offensively. He's cheaper. And it would open the 2B position for Frazier or Valaika. I would even throw in a relief prospect.

BLEEDS
07-06-2009, 01:55 PM
Would you do Brandon Phillips for Yunel Escobar? I would. It would solve our SS problem for a number of years. Yunel is just as good or better offensively. He's cheaper. And it would open the 2B position for Frazier or Valaika. I would even throw in a relief prospect.

In a New York minute.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ohioballplayer
07-06-2009, 02:15 PM
Would you do Brandon Phillips for Yunel Escobar? I would. It would solve our SS problem for a number of years. Yunel is just as good or better offensively. He's cheaper. And it would open the 2B position for Frazier or Valaika. I would even throw in a relief prospect.

Oh heck YES!!

bgwilly31
07-06-2009, 02:48 PM
I assume he meant he was as good as him defensively, and that is very arguable, although many people have said 2B is the easiest position to replace, I fully appreciate his GG there.

However, I don't think the chiding was fully due.

There will come a time, soon, where the FO will be asking the same question (what can we get for BP) because his bat will not warrant what we are currently paying for his glove.
I.E. $6.75M (in 2010) is worth a GG and a 1 WAR bat;
$11.0M (in 2011) is not worth a GG and a 1 WAR bat.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

janish is not as good defensively. And you have nothing to prove that he is. Has janish put anywhere close to a FULL season in with the reds>? No. A couple games here and couple games there. You cant say he is. Not to mention janish would not be a MLB player on any other team right now. You couldnt give him away. BTW ive heard janish's name more than once connected to a bobbled ball or a mis throw. Just in the past couple weeks. I think his defense might be just a bit over hyped. And his bat. He misewell go to the plate without one.

BigJohn
07-06-2009, 04:23 PM
No one else is worth anything and BP is. If we want a BIG BAT we have to give up something, might as well be someone that is overpaid or about to be. I think Phillips can be replaced and he is the one player that might bring in a BIG BAT!

bgwilly31
07-06-2009, 04:37 PM
We need to ADD bats to the bats we already have. Not take away a decent bat now. And a great bat when he's going good. To replace him with the same type of player maybe slightly better. How much do you think that would help.

BigJohn
07-06-2009, 04:38 PM
Matt Holliday is slightly better?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7311/career;_ylt=AozCZ_eC1C6RA1tiPvC92V.FCLcF

I don't think so!
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6857/career;_ylt=AozCZ_eC1C6RA1tiPvC92V.FCLcF

mroby85
07-06-2009, 04:44 PM
Actually this year since leaving Colorado he's not as good. Not to mention he plays LF, not 2B.
As far as I was concerned all credibility was lost when you said Janish was just about as good as BP.

GIDP
07-06-2009, 04:44 PM
Janish is as good as Phillips and we may be able to get a bat for BP.

Look at BP's WAR

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/p/philb001.htm

:laugh:

Thanks for that haha

SoTxRedsFan
07-06-2009, 04:44 PM
Matt Holliday is slightly better?

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7311/career;_ylt=AozCZ_eC1C6RA1tiPvC92V.FCLcF

I don't think so!
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6857/career;_ylt=AozCZ_eC1C6RA1tiPvC92V.FCLcF

What in the world are you talking about?

BigJohn
07-06-2009, 05:00 PM
If we need to deal someone for a big bat I would just as soon see BP go as any of the pitchers and he is the only player that will bring us a big bat, let's do it. If you don't think Holliday is a much bigger bat than phillips, you are crazy. My point with janish or rosales or anyone else can play second. Put Nix in center play JHJ at third and deal BP and EE. I don;t think either one of them is untouchable.

GIDP
07-06-2009, 05:03 PM
You want to play our bench as regulars and trade our starters...? How do you think we would get better this way?

Shawn_RedsFan
07-06-2009, 05:05 PM
If we need to deal someone for a big bat I would just as soon see BP go as any of the pitchers and he is the only player that will bring us a big bat, let's do it. If you don't think Holliday is a much bigger bat than phillips, you are crazy. My point with janish or rosales or anyone else can play second. Put Nix in center play JHJ at third and deal BP and EE. I don;t think either one of them is untouchable.

thank god this would never happen....nix in center?? really??

also, anyone else can play second defensively possibly but not as good as BP and janish/rosales will never ever EVER have half the season phillips has offensively..

BigJohn
07-06-2009, 05:08 PM
Well we are not going to get a big bat for anyone else are we? Why not Nix in Center, he is a center fielder really.

The starters are not getting it done!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7176/career;_ylt=AozCZ_eC1C6RA1tiPvC92V.FCLcF

bgwilly31
07-06-2009, 05:17 PM
Janish is as good as Phillips

]

/END THREAD

GIDP
07-06-2009, 05:30 PM
Well we are not going to get a big bat for anyone else are we? Why not Nix in Center, he is a center fielder really.

The starters are not getting it done!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7176/career;_ylt=AozCZ_eC1C6RA1tiPvC92V.FCLcF

So you want to trade a starter that is getting it done?

I dont understand

BLEEDS
07-06-2009, 05:39 PM
Sure you can argue the scemantics, but the premise that a RIDICULOUSLY salaried BP, who historically struggles (on the degree of Corey Patterson/Wily Tavares) against RHP, is having an "up" year in that department, but is due to make $11M in 2011, and currently holds an option year for 2012 at $12.5M is not a stupid idea at all to consider trading "high" on...

Not when 2B-men are a dime a dozen, and we have PLENTY of guys in the minors who could realistically put up a better OPS than BP (and have it not be skewed by monster numbers that come from only 30% of his AB's) for about 1/33rd of the cost...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Shawn_RedsFan
07-06-2009, 06:02 PM
Well we are not going to get a big bat for anyone else are we? Why not Nix in Center, he is a center fielder really.

The starters are not getting it done!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7176/career;_ylt=AozCZ_eC1C6RA1tiPvC92V.FCLcF

why not dickerson in center?? or is he not good enough either??

SoTxRedsFan
07-06-2009, 07:26 PM
If we need to deal someone for a big bat I would just as soon see BP go as any of the pitchers and he is the only player that will bring us a big bat, let's do it. If you don't think Holliday is a much bigger bat than phillips, you are crazy. My point with janish or rosales or anyone else can play second. Put Nix in center play JHJ at third and deal BP and EE. I don;t think either one of them is untouchable.

Nix would be AWFUL in CF, and JHJ has proven he can't play a passable third base.

Jones1
07-06-2009, 07:36 PM
Wow, what a stupid thread!

Captain Hook
07-06-2009, 07:58 PM
Wow, what a stupid thread!

If we could get good value I'd do it in a second.BP is one of my favorite Reds but the money he will be making in 2011 and 2012 is what is stupid.Spending over 20 mil. for a 2B and closer those years will be a huge burden on the Reds.We are at best a mid market team and can't afford to have so much money wrapped up in 2 positions that could be filled for far less considering the young guys we have coming up in the farm system.

I am by no means suggesting that the team cuts payroll.If the Reds would decide to not spend the savings or spend it on guys like Taveras I'd just assume keep Brandon and at least have guys on the team I like.

Brandon4MVP
07-06-2009, 08:04 PM
why not dickerson in center?? or is he not good enough either??

Dickerson has been playing great. I think he will be a solid player for many years. He deserves to be playing everyday. I love him in center.

And if phillips gets traded we will lose many fans me included

Shawn_RedsFan
07-06-2009, 11:25 PM
Dickerson has been playing great. I think he will be a solid player for many years. He deserves to be playing everyday. I love him in center.

And if phillips gets traded we will lose many fans me included

I think most of us agree about dickerson i was just talking to the topic creator, because im not sure why he would want Nix in center :confused:

bgwilly31
07-06-2009, 11:31 PM
And if phillips gets traded we will lose many fans me included

Lose many fans. Even thoughi agree trading phillips would be a mistake.

But most fans are reds fans first. Doubt very much they will lose fans.

BigJohn
07-06-2009, 11:38 PM
My point is if we get a Matt Holliday or other LF I hate to lose Nix's bat. BP trade is no different than when the sold Casey.

mroby85
07-07-2009, 04:55 AM
My point is if we get a Matt Holliday or other LF I hate to lose Nix's bat. BP trade is no different than when the sold Casey.

It's actually a lot different, BP is a productive 2B with a gold glove. Sean Casey was (as much as I like him) a player that simply wasn't that good at the time the reds dealt him.

BigJohn
07-07-2009, 10:13 AM
You better look at the numbers, Casey was just as productive as BP and would still be had he stayed in Cincy! That is just silly.
If Phillips is so good with the glove and the bat why hasn't he been moved to SS?

Jones1
07-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Maybe bcuz you dont move a guy who is probable the best defensive second baseman in MLB. Seriously though this thread is the stupidest thread ive seen in a long time! Theres way better things to discuss than trading BP. Its not gonna happen, so why is there there 3 freaking thread lines? SO DUMB! Lets talk about something meaningful like whats been wrong with the pitching? Will EE come back to some sort of form? Will the Reds trade for a FA bat? This is just moronic.

Captain Hook
07-07-2009, 03:06 PM
Maybe bcuz you dont move a guy who is probable the best defensive second baseman in MLB. Seriously though this thread is the stupidest thread ive seen in a long time! Theres way better things to discuss than trading BP. Its not gonna happen, so why is there there 3 freaking thread lines? SO DUMB! Lets talk about something meaningful like whats been wrong with the pitching? Will EE come back to some sort of form? Will the Reds trade for a FA bat? This is just moronic.

Its not moronic to explore all options.I don't think anyone is suggesting that BP is traded today.I'm sure that Walt has looked at what Phillips will be making in the coming seasons and wondered if we could replace his production for less money.I'm sure he has tried to calculate what kind of return Brandon could bring in a trade.He wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't.None of that means he will do it though.That's all that is happening here.I for 1 don't support the idea of trading BP but certainly do not mind discussing it.

BigJohn
07-07-2009, 03:40 PM
of the players we can get a legit big bat for who would you want to trade? Votto? Bruce? No way! Pitchers? Who is worthy? Not Arroyo or Harrang, Cueto and Volquez are hands off. Maybe Micah? or Homer? Why trade low paid young players? You tell me who we could trade and get a real player for that is not a low paid young future player!

BigJohn
07-07-2009, 03:42 PM
You want to know what is wrong with the pitching? Dick Pole. We have pitchers leave here and do very well.
Must be the coaching.

Brandon4MVP
07-07-2009, 04:07 PM
Why so much hate on phillips? The guys is one of the best players in history with doing community events. He always takes time to sign autographs for kids

BigJohn
07-07-2009, 04:33 PM
I don't hate him at all. I think he is great but he is the only player that is worth trading and getting something for that we can replace and not mortgage the future. That is the way I see it. We have to get some offense on the field. We have proven that defense and pitching is not enough!

FlyerFanatic
07-07-2009, 04:37 PM
You want to know what is wrong with the pitching? Dick Pole. We have pitchers leave here and do very well.
Must be the coaching.

I really dont know what to think of jacoby/pohl, really any of the assistant coaches. how much do they do? its tough to gauge that imo, especially at the big league level. how much is pohl doing? i heard last year someone said during a broadcast that soto picked up on something wrong with cuetos mechanics on tv, and called him up to tell him about it...then again you hear stuff like maddux said pohl was the best pitching coach he ever had. jacoby, who knows...offense is terrible, but whose to say thats jacoby rather than baker telling people to hack away and not work counts? mark berry, he's made some terrible calls to go home, makes you wonder what hes doing.

i just dont know what to think of our assistant coches, i have a feeling its a mix, some people listen to em, others dont give a damn. dont think that can be healthy to a ball club

Kingspoint
07-07-2009, 04:55 PM
Brandon Phillips is the type of player a team like the REDS tries to acquire, not trade away. Guys not named Votto, he's the best hitter on the REDS in 2009, batting cleanup while hitting in the .330's w/ RISP. It's not his fault there are few RISP when he gets up. If Dusty put the right guys all season batting 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (while Votto was gone), Phillips would have 60+ RBI's and be heading to the All-Star game.

Phillips is 28 years old. He is a Gold Glove Fielder at one of the 4 premier Defensive positions. He's cheap in 2009 and 2010. If you want to trade him, trade him after 2010 to the teams that $11M looks to them what $6.75M looks like to the Cincinnati REDS (Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Red Sox, Tigers, Angels, Phillies, Dodgers). One of those 8 teams will trade for him after the 2010 season. He'll be going into the 2011 season and only be 31 years old. The REDS need his cheap services for 2009 and 2010. Then we trade him for cheaper players.

2009: $4.75 million,
2010: $6.75 million,
2011: $11 million,
2012: $12 million club option w/$1 million buyout, 2013: Free Agent

BigJohn
07-07-2009, 05:01 PM
So he IS our BIG BAT? PITIFUL! A career 260 hitter that strikes out 2x his BB and has never had 100 RBIs?

Kingspoint
07-07-2009, 05:19 PM
So he IS our BIG BAT? PITIFUL! A career 260 hitter that strikes out 2x his BB and has never had 100 RBIs?

You can look at it that way, which is about as negative an attitude as you can get, or you can look at it with what it is....a player, who at 28, is at the peak of his career, and his batting average with RISP this season is incredible considering it's the first time he's been placed in the #4 hole as a hitter. He's truely not a #4 hitter, but is doing for this club what Tommy Herr was asked to do for the Cardinals in 1985 at the age of 29. Herr was also a 2nd Baseman.

You can't argue against the fact that Phillips has stepped up to the responsibility given him this season in every way, shape, and form.

He won't bat #4 again as Alonso will be batting #4 next season for the REDS. He'll drop down in the order to #5 or #6 next season, probably his last season with the REDS when the REDS make a serious run at the World Series as Arroyo should be gone, and our rotation of Volquez, Cueto, Harang, Bailey, and Owings will be solid.

There also aren't 5 2nd Basemen in the National League who are having a better Offensive Season, not to mention there aren't 3 better defensively.

GBC Red
07-07-2009, 06:30 PM
Why so much hate on phillips? The guys is one of the best players in history with doing community events. He always takes time to sign autographs for kids

Just because the man does community work and loves kids, that doesn't mean that he is untouchable. I don't hate Phillips, I do think at times he needs to just keep his mouth shut, but he's not perfect and if the right deal came along I say ship him! If you want to stop being a Reds fan because of one player leaving, then I am just going to assume you aren't a Reds fan anyway.

Brandon4MVP
07-08-2009, 01:50 AM
So he IS our BIG BAT? PITIFUL! A career 260 hitter that strikes out 2x his BB and has never had 100 RBIs?

Don't know if you ever make it to any game but they had a stat on the scoreboard last week that said BP was the 6th hardest player in the NL to strikeout

Jones1
07-08-2009, 05:55 AM
Don't know if you ever make it to any game but they had a stat on the scoreboard last week that said BP was the 6th hardest player in the NL to strikeout

Not sure that he watched the game last night either, where BP single handedly won the game for us offensively. If it wasn't for Brandon we would be looking at a 3 game losing streak and slipping away from the pack in the division. Yeah lets trade him away, lol!

Also BP's stats are among the best in baseball for second baseman, heres a few.

3rd in MLB in RBI's with 56 and has alot less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

Tied for 4th in HR's with 13, and once again has less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

10th in Runs scored with 43, and once again has less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

And for everyone that said BP doesn't like to talk a walk he is this year and is ranked 8th with 30 walks and once again has less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

He's tied for third in SB's with 11 and once again has less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

This isn't just the national league its all MLB second baseman, BP is having a career year why would you trade that away when this teams offense is anemic already? He's making an average of 5 or 6 mil the next two seasons. For what the guy gives you thats a steal!

Now can we stop going on in this STUPID thread about trading BP its not gonna happen and frankly talking about it at this stage in his career and what he's making is absolutely MORONIC!

If you want to talk about trading someone lets talk about eating Willy T's contract and trading him for a bag of balls, I think we can all agree on that! SHEESH!!!!!!!

BigJohn
07-08-2009, 09:01 AM
Yeah and his Gold Glove almost cost us the lead? I didn't say he was no good. I said he is the only player we have good enough to bring a big bat without selling the future. Eating big contracts or selling them is not going to make this team a bit better. There has to be the aquisition of a some really proven players and we just don't seem to want to do it. Just get rid of the old and hope we can develop young kids. We have been trying that for over 10 years now. It isn't working.
Calling me a moron and idiot is not going to make it go away guys, we need some changes and sometimes you have to pay for the best with your best.

bgwilly31
07-08-2009, 12:10 PM
This quote is even more funny today. :laugh:


Janish is as good as phillips.

BigJohn
07-08-2009, 02:36 PM
I bet janish wouldn't have booted the ball hit by Utley that Phillips did. It was a gift hit so phillips didn't get an error but it could have cost the game after all his offensive heroics!

My point was, Janish is just as good at 2b as Phillips DEFENSIVELY!

Someone answer the question! What do you think we could get for him?

GIDP
07-08-2009, 02:44 PM
Yea Janish booted a ball friday.

BLEEDS
07-08-2009, 02:49 PM
He won't bat #4 again as Alonso will be batting #4 next season for the REDS.

JHC, don't put any pressure on the kid!! Sheesh!

He's batting .246 and OPS-ing .668 in AA right now, and you've got him hitting cleanup next year?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BigJohn
07-08-2009, 02:54 PM
Phillips has as many errors right now as he had all last year.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 03:03 PM
JHC, don't put any pressure on the kid!! Sheesh!

He's batting .246 and OPS-ing .668 in AA right now, and you've got him hitting cleanup next year?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Lets not like that .668 OPS is over a big bunch of ABs. Its 61 ABs.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 03:07 PM
Phillips has as many errors right now as he had all last year.

and Janish has 2 in 1/4th the innings.

BLEEDS
07-08-2009, 03:17 PM
Not sure that he watched the game last night either, where BP single handedly won the game for us offensively. If it wasn't for Brandon we would be looking at a 3 game losing streak and slipping away from the pack in the division. Yeah lets trade him away, lol!

Also BP's stats are among the best in baseball for second baseman, heres a few.

3rd in MLB in RBI's with 56 and has alot less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

Tied for 4th in HR's with 13, and once again has less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

10th in Runs scored with 43, and once again has less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

And for everyone that said BP doesn't like to talk a walk he is this year and is ranked 8th with 30 walks and once again has less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

He's tied for third in SB's with 11 and once again has less plate appearances than most in the top ten.

This isn't just the national league its all MLB second baseman, BP is having a career year why would you trade that away when this teams offense is anemic already? He's making an average of 5 or 6 mil the next two seasons. For what the guy gives you thats a steal!


Well to put it in perspective, there is not many 2B-men hitting in the 4 hole league-wide, if he wasn't in the top 5 in all offensive run-producing categories, I'd be greatly concerned.

He's a league-average bat, sure, but an above-average glove. In terms of offensive production for 2B-man, he's surely above average.

I'd hate to compare his stats to that of other 4/5-hole guys, it wouldn't be pretty.
If we had a solid 4/5 hole guy, he'd be great as a 6/7 guy. I think that's the point of this guys thread. We could trade him for a solid 4/5 guy, and he's good enough to bring that value back. Don't take it as a slap in BP's face, he is what he is, and he's being used as he is for better or for worse, due to lack of other choices.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BigJohn
07-08-2009, 03:18 PM
Well he doesn't have "gold glover" before his name either!

Exacly my point Bleeds. Thanks.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 03:22 PM
Well he doesn't have "gold glover" before his name either!

Exacly my point Bleeds. Thanks.

You are doin a good job of pointing out your point.

BLEEDS
07-08-2009, 03:25 PM
Lets not like that .668 OPS is over a big bunch of ABs. Its 61 ABs.

Right, and Jay Bruce tore up AAA for 100 games and that has translated how after one month of en fugeo?

You can't project these guys in general, but to assume these A and AA guys are going to even SNIFF the majors next year, let alone be penciled in the cleanup spot is beyond absurd.

Quotes like what you'll find in my signature are things you like to keep around for posterity and get a good laugh out of later.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BigJohn
07-08-2009, 03:32 PM
Could you get Aaron Hill for BP and say EE?

GIDP
07-08-2009, 03:37 PM
Right, and Jay Bruce tore up AAA for 100 games and that has translated how after one month of en fugeo?

You can't project these guys in general, but to assume these A and AA guys are going to even SNIFF the majors next year, let alone be penciled in the cleanup spot is beyond absurd.

Quotes like what you'll find in my signature are things you like to keep around for posterity and get a good laugh out of later.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

So you want to point out how 100 games in AAA didnt prove anything, and then point out 60 ABs in AA as if they prove something?

Dont get me wrong I think its a stretch to think Yonder is going to be a sure thing for 2010 also but you are speaking out of 2 sides of your mouth when it comes to your examples.

bounty37h
07-08-2009, 03:48 PM
Phillips has as many errors right now as he had all last year.

You mean last season when he should have won the gold glove?

GIDP
07-08-2009, 03:49 PM
You mean last season when he should have won the gold glove?

He won the GG last year

bounty37h
07-08-2009, 03:51 PM
He won the GG last year

Oops, you caught me getting ahead of myself :) Thanks for the catch, and prove the point as well!

Knightro28
07-08-2009, 04:48 PM
Why would you want to trade Phillips for Aaron Hill?

Also, Phillips did just get a field named after him in the Cincinnati area; I think you have to take that into account. I know that doesn't mean he will automatically be a Red for the remainder of his career, but he obviously wants to stay.

Kingspoint
07-08-2009, 07:02 PM
JHC, don't put any pressure on the kid!! Sheesh!

He's batting .246 and OPS-ing .668 in AA right now, and you've got him hitting cleanup next year?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Alonso thrives on pressure. He'll attack the National League Pitchers exactly the way Votto did when he came up.

Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today.

Bring this post up again a year from now. The only way it won't happen is if Alonso suffers another unforeseen injury.

Kingspoint
07-08-2009, 07:09 PM
Well to put it in perspective, there is not many 2B-men hitting in the 4 hole league-wide, if he wasn't in the top 5 in all offensive run-producing categories, I'd be greatly concerned.



But, he's gotten those same stats over each of the last several years compared to other 2nd Basemen no matter where he's batted in the lineup, and those ahead of him do bat 3rd or 4th.


Batting 4th in this lineup is not a good thing, when the 1-2 guys both get on base at a .300 clip. (Taveras and Hairston).

BLEEDS
07-09-2009, 03:35 PM
So you want to point out how 100 games in AAA didnt prove anything, and then point out 60 ABs in AA as if they prove something?

Dont get me wrong I think its a stretch to think Yonder is going to be a sure thing for 2010 also but you are speaking out of 2 sides of your mouth when it comes to your examples.

100 GAMES of Domination versus 60 AB's of struggle, that's my point.

Even when guys DOMINATE as Bruce did - and obviously he is the exception to the rule, he was fast-tracked in one year but has mad skills - they can still struggle in the majors.

60 AB's of struggle may not say he's going to struggle, but it's surely not a good indicator that he's going to dominate in the majors. Obviously you want someone to GET BETTER before exposing them to higher levels. Not sure of your point here.

My point is that give the kid more than 60 AB's in AA - of suckage, let alone dominance - before handing him the following season's Cleanup job in the majors.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
07-09-2009, 03:36 PM
Alonso thrives on pressure. He'll attack the National League Pitchers exactly the way Votto did when he came up.

Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today.
Bring this post up again a year from now. The only way it won't happen is if Alonso suffers another unforeseen injury.

I'll take that bet. That's possibly the most absurd thing I've read here in quite awhile.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

GIDP
07-09-2009, 03:49 PM
100 GAMES of Domination versus 60 AB's of struggle, that's my point.

Even when guys DOMINATE as Bruce did - and obviously he is the exception to the rule, he was fast-tracked in one year but has mad skills - they can still struggle in the majors.

60 AB's of struggle may not say he's going to struggle, but it's surely not a good indicator that he's going to dominate in the majors. Obviously you want someone to GET BETTER before exposing them to higher levels. Not sure of your point here.

My point is that give the kid more than 60 AB's in AA - of suckage, let alone dominance - before handing him the following season's Cleanup job in the majors.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

So you are now trying to point out that your own example was really pointless?

BLEEDS
07-09-2009, 04:24 PM
So you are now trying to point out that your own example was really pointless?

No, not at all. I was pointing out that even a guy who Dominated at a higher level didn't make it well in the majors; so a guy struggling at a lower level shouldn't even be considered.

100 games Dominance in AAA DNE great Majors

60 ABs struggle in AA DEFINITELY DNE great Majors

Obviously the first scenario should project better, but it wasn't a guarantee. A guy struggling at a lower level - even if he dominated at an even lower level than that- shouldn't even be discussed in the same breath.

It's like saying a Senior in HS who graduated mid-semester with a 4.0 gpa might be able to project well in his first year in college, but he didn't.
Now you want to consider an 8th grader who is struggling his first semester, although in 7th grade he had a 3.5, should have a chance to get better grades than this other kid if he skipped HS and went right to college.
That was the scenario being presented.

Not too hard to follow. Not sure what your issue is.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

GIDP
07-09-2009, 04:34 PM
Yea imagine that people using previous stats to predict the future. Unheard of.

Your point was that Bruce in AAA stats dont matter now, and your point with Yonder was that his stats in 60 some ABs some how do matter. If you said minor league stats dont matter fine, but you really werent saying that.


:dunno:

Krawhitham
07-09-2009, 04:48 PM
Janish is as good as Phillips and we may be able to get a bat for BP.

Look at BP's WAR

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/p/philb001.htm

http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/j/janip001.htm

1.0 seems to be better than -0.2

Kingspoint
07-09-2009, 06:52 PM
60 AB's of struggle may not say he's going to struggle, but it's surely not a good indicator that he's going to dominate in the majors. Obviously you want someone to GET BETTER before exposing them to higher levels. Not sure of your point here.



I don't care what he's done in 60 AB's in the minors at any level (though I know that he did well there, unlike what you're trying to suggest).

I've seen enough of Alonso to know that before this season began, he was ready for the Majors. He could have skipped the minor leagues all along. Like Gordon Beckham, both players were already major-league ready the day they were drafted.

You won't see him struggle his first year the way Bruce has. Alonso will have a very good rookie season next year.

I'm rarely wrong about players that I show this much confidence in. I've seen 10,000 Major Leaguers. There isn't anything new for me to see anymore. Alonso is special, and his swing and approach to the plate at this moment in his life says that he's ready to begin his major league career whenever the REDS decide to begin it.

If Votto wasn't there, and there was no hand injury, he'd be in the Majors already.

Kingspoint
07-09-2009, 06:53 PM
I'll take that bet. That's possibly the most absurd thing I've read here in quite awhile.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Absurd is only when you're wrong. I'm right 80% of the time. Few people can make that claim.

BLEEDS
07-09-2009, 11:05 PM
Absurd is only when you're wrong. I'm right 80% of the time. Few people can make that claim.

K

Then let's wager.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Kingspoint
07-10-2009, 08:41 PM
K

Then let's wager.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

No need to put up anything on your part.

I'm totally confident about this.

You win if I'm wrong about it.

Use the search word, " pizza " to find this thread.

40YrRedsFan
07-10-2009, 09:56 PM
Brandon Phillips is not the problem. I wouldn't trade him. The problem is he is NOT a middle of the lineup hitter. He should be a #5 or #6 hitter. We need better #1, 2, 4, and 5 hitters. Since we are still a couple of years away(IMO), I would trade Cordero, Weathers, and EE while they are still marketable.
My pitching staff in 2011 would be:
Volquez SP
Cueto SP
Harang SP
Bailey SP
Maloney SP
Masset RP (closer?)
Roenicke RP (closer?)
Owings RP (long relief)
2 more left handers RP
2 more right handers RP
possibles: Burton, Travis Wood, Bray, Herrera, Manuel, Fisher, other acquisitions.
Other players NOT there in 2011: Arroyo, Taveras, Gonzalez, Hairston, Lincoln, Janish
Everyday players for 2011: Votto 1B, Bruce RF, Hanigan C, Phillips 2B, Heisey CF, Valaika SS, Frazier LF, a BIG bat for 3B
2011 Possible Bench Players: Gomes, Nix, Rosales, Hernandez, other acquisitions

TheAnswer
07-10-2009, 10:18 PM
Agreed, Phillips is not part of the problem rather part of the answer. He needs to bat in a different spot as soon as management gets the middle of the order bat we were promised in the off season.

BLEEDS
07-11-2009, 12:05 AM
No need to put up anything on your part.

I'm totally confident about this.

You win if I'm wrong about it.

Use the search word, " pizza " to find this thread.

No worries, I got in in my sig... ;)

PEACE

-BLEEDS

sivman17
07-11-2009, 01:52 AM
why is this thread still going? we are not trading b phil nor should we