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View Full Version : Do you want to make a big trade for a bat?



xavr1
07-06-2009, 01:46 PM
OK so there's been a lot of talk here and in the Cincinnati media about whether the Reds should make a big deal this year for a bat. I know there are some shades of grey in between (making a small deal), but I'm curious to know how many of you think we should trade some of our young guys for a bat this season. Vote in the poll.

Would you be in favor of a big trade that gets us a bat?

BLEEDS
07-06-2009, 01:49 PM
Yes.

Give me Matt Holiday please, plug him into LF for 300 AB's or so to finish the year, and give me a 72 hour window to extend him.

Dickerson gets the CF job, and Willy can get spot starts versus LHP.

JHJ can play SS to finish this year and bat 7th. Next off-season we let him go and either get a FA to plug in there, or we live with Janish's bat in the 8 hole since his glove is way above average, so overall it's a big improvement over JHJ @SS.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ohioballplayer
07-06-2009, 02:13 PM
Yes,

I agree with Bleeds (like I always do, he makes the most sense), but I will not agree with selling off our future for a 300 AB rental. Also don't you think it's time to make a deal involving Cordero, " Sell high " is great in this case, should be a few teams looking for a solid closer come deadline and we should benefit from the trading of him. We have enough arms in the bull pen to close games, and no I am not talking about STORMY!!!

Captain Hook
07-06-2009, 02:47 PM
No,

Don't get me wrong I want the Reds to make a trade but not for a one year rental guy that is going to cost us prospects and play a position that we have decent options at on the team.I believe that if we could get Taveras out of the OF once and for all we are just fine out there.3rd and most importantly SS are the areas that need upgraded imo.Defense should be the main concern but the team shouldn't settle for anything less then a league average bat at the 2 positions.

By the way I'm taking the question as "a big OF bat".

bgwilly31
07-06-2009, 02:49 PM
Nope. Run this season out. Its not our season.

Make some moves and spend some money in the offseason.

GIDP
07-06-2009, 04:45 PM
No, I make a trade for a SS with some on base skills, but I dont really see a need to add payroll for a LFer.

SoTxRedsFan
07-06-2009, 04:50 PM
I'd rather have a defensive minded SS that can get on base. The OF situation isn't that bad if Dusty is starting the right players.

GIDP
07-06-2009, 05:04 PM
I'd rather have a defensive minded SS that can get on base. The OF situation isn't that bad if Dusty is starting the right players.

Who said you had to have one or the other?

Its not like we have to have Jeter and his terrible D or Gonzalez and his terrible bat.

mac624
07-06-2009, 05:23 PM
Are biggest bargining chip in my opinion, Arroyo, is hurt, and I am just not about trading the future for a one year run. Do we need another bat? Sure, but we are okay. Let Cueto, Volquez, and Bailey and Owings cut their teeth more, then in the offseason, pull the trigger and unload Arroyo or a prospect or two.

Also, this Matt Holliday thing is a pipe dream at best. He's good, but he's not that good, and while he's a RH bat, he's likely to head for the $$$ next season with a big market club, and the Reds would be out him and the future of the prospects we'd trade to get him. Sorry, not interested.

I'll take my lumps for one more year, really get serious about 3B, LF, and SS in the off season. We can't just add one big RH bat and not deal with 3B and/or SS, because right now, those infield positions have a TON of question marks that have to be resolved, and soon. EE isn't ready and I won't judge him yet, but really, he's not the answer at 3B and I think everyone knows that, just like they know Gonzalez isn't the answer at SS.

So in the off season, go get your bat, and stabilize 3B and SS, deal Arroyo for whatever you can get and we should be just fine and ready to really go some places with a rotation of Cueto, Volquez, Harang, Bailey, and Owings.

BLEEDS
07-06-2009, 05:34 PM
Also, this Matt Holliday thing is a pipe dream at best. He's good, but he's not that good, and while he's a RH bat, he's likely to head for the $$$ next season with a big market club, and the Reds would be out him and the future of the prospects we'd trade to get him. Sorry, not interested.

I'll take my lumps for one more year, really get serious about 3B, LF, and SS in the off season.

Sure, because we did such a good job at dealing with those SAME holes THIS past off-season.

Now, we get to factor in a bad economy, arbitration years for all our young up and comers, the fact that BP is going into his last "non-Ridiculous Salary" year, and Harang and Arroyo now one year closer to their option years, and it should be a piece of cake to get them all addressed in one off-season.
NOT!

We need to make several moves, why not make one or two of them now? We are going to take our lumps regardless. Might as well plan for the future as well. Teams are looking to trade, we have the opportunity to be buyers (offense) and sellers (pitching), so we should take full advantage of it.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Jefferson24
07-06-2009, 05:38 PM
If you could move Harang or Arroyo and get a bat back in return, then sure. I just don't want to give up any young, cheap talent.

CincyRed44
07-06-2009, 06:33 PM
No. One large RH bat doesn't solve four glaring holes on this team. We all know LF, 3b, CF and SS leave holes in our line-up of titanic proportions. I'm still sickened at our front office's debacle when Scott Rolen was sent to St. Louis instead of Cincinnati. Wow, wouldn't a healthy Rolen look prolific in our line-up nestled between Votto and Bruce plus it wouldn't look like the proverbial black hole we trot out there every night.

Our LF platoon is sufficient for now. We have a simple in house solution to our 3b problem, move Frazier back.

SS is our most glaring weakness Janish has great glove and range but he can't hit, same goes for Gonzalez. JHJ has a decent bat but just adequate as a fielder. This being a premium position will be the hardest to find a young, defensive player that actually has offensive skills, an ability to hit for good average (300+) and (power 20-30 HRs). Is there even one that is available? Would the White Sox consider dealing Beckham or Ramirez?

CF needs some attention as well. DFA Taveras!!! This will allow Dickerson to play every day. The only way to learn how to hit a LH is to see and play against it. Now what to do with Stubbs and Heisey. If Hiesey hits as well as everyone suggests then move him to LF, let him learn the nuances of playing that corner and then continue developing Stubbs as your future CFr.

SoTxRedsFan
07-06-2009, 07:18 PM
Who said you had to have one or the other?

Its not like we have to have Jeter and his terrible D or Gonzalez and his terrible bat.

Read the post again. I said I wanted a good glove/good on base SS. Hooked on phonics really does work.

GIDP
07-06-2009, 07:27 PM
Read the post again. I said I wanted a good glove/good on base SS. Hooked on phonics really does work.

I figured since it was a reply after mine where i mentioned a SS mentioning on base skills I thought you were talking to me as if I didnt care if he was good defensively or not.

Sorry I guess...

sivman17
07-07-2009, 02:55 AM
Before this past week I was really hoping the Reds would go after a big bat. But, in reality this team is not one big bat away from the playoffs. We have great prospects in the minors, a very young Reds team, and a great pitching staff. Yeah, Arroyo needs to go but it's not like we can get much for him. If they can make a trade for a decent LF or SS without trading away the future I would say go for it. Even if a SS bats .265 to .280 it would be a major upgrade to what we have now.

xavr1
07-07-2009, 10:19 AM
Before this past week I was really hoping the Reds would go after a big bat. But, in reality this team is not one big bat away from the playoffs. We have great prospects in the minors, a very young Reds team, and a great pitching staff. Yeah, Arroyo needs to go but it's not like we can get much for him. If they can make a trade for a decent LF or SS without trading away the future I would say go for it. Even if a SS bats .265 to .280 it would be a major upgrade to what we have now.

Agreed. Unfortunately I am moving to the "No" camp as well. Last night's "game" might have sealed the deal. I know it was only one loss, but its really like the straw that broke the camel's back. One bat ain't gonna do it.

Jones1
07-07-2009, 02:48 PM
Not when the great pitching we've had breaks down and thats exactly whats happening. We're gonna have to roll with what we have till the end of July most likely. If we're still in contention Walt will make a move, If not, he wont as easy as that.

xavr1
07-07-2009, 04:52 PM
Pretty interesting how even the vote is here. Almost half and half. Sorta mirrors the Cincy media split between Fay (stand pat) and Daughtery (be bold).

tobttr
07-07-2009, 05:00 PM
This team can't afford to give up any of the talent they already have. And let's face it, the Helms-May for Morgan-Geronimo-Billingham trade just doesn't happen at the drop of a hat.
So I vote no. Either go with free agents or pray like crazy that several kiddies in the minors can actually help soon.

Kingspoint
07-07-2009, 05:09 PM
Not when the great pitching we've had breaks down and thats exactly whats happening. We're gonna have to roll with what we have till the end of July most likely. If we're still in contention Walt will make a move, If not, he wont as easy as that.


The starting pitching has gotten worse as the season has lengthened. At least 5 runs have been scored against Cueto in 4 of his last 5 starts. Arroyo has been atrocious all season, and worse the last month. Harang has been worse the last month than he was the 1st month. Volquez disappeared the last 8 weeks. Maloney didn't do well, didn't even do average, when given 3 starts.

Bailey has looked very good in his last two starts. Owings has been great the last 2 months except for three starts after the San Diego 5+ inning relief appearance at 2:30 a.m.

Relief pitching, until the last two games, and the St. Louis fiasco was #1 in the NL. Now it needs to right itself.

That was the 1st Half.

Now it's the beginning of the 2nd Half.

Anything is possible. We're close enough to contend for the Division Title. It's just a matter of how bad do these guys want it. Which, I suppose is why Dusty likes his veterans. Veterans can be complacent, though, and just want to make sure they can cash their paychecks.

It will be very interesting to see what happens the next 9 games. I think the attitude of the players for the whole 2nd Half will show itself over the next 9 games. Not surely, but to me, it should be a great barometer. If they go anything less than 5-4, then we probably become sellers. 5-4 or better, then I'd think we have the players on the team already that are needed to go for the Division Title.

Old NDN
07-07-2009, 05:09 PM
But the talent we presumably have just isn't getting the job done. I'm not so sure the pitching is as good as thought to be. And obviously the hitting is a joke. How many of our young studs are really that? Maybe we are coveting some of these players that nobody else does. Why not go after a bat? Something HAS to change.

Kingspoint
07-07-2009, 05:24 PM
But the talent we presumably have just isn't getting the job done. I'm not so sure the pitching is as good as thought to be. And obviously the hitting is a joke. How many of our young studs are really that? Maybe we are coveting some of these players that nobody else does. Why not go after a bat? Something HAS to change.

Something has to change. Either Willy T and Hairston start hitting better (Willy T has the last few games), or they need to sit and sit often.

Will getting another bat change that?

Arroyo gone seems like addition by subtraction. I don't think he'll turn it around like he did last season. Nothing shows me that it's something that will happen.

GBC Red
07-07-2009, 06:38 PM
First reaction would be yes, we need a bat. When actually thinking about it, I don't know how much one bat is going to help.

Staffer
07-07-2009, 08:09 PM
The more and more I think about it, Scott Rolen makes the most sense.

Midwest guy, still a glold glover, still has pop. Does a package of EE, Matt Maloney, and Travis Wood get it done?

Ohioballplayer
07-08-2009, 12:54 PM
I say forget about mediocrity, stop selling our guys for 265-280 hitting players, if we are going to make moves BE BOLD, seel Harang, Arroyo, Cordero, and maybe even BP, get some really good players in these deals!!!

Old NDN
07-08-2009, 03:18 PM
Those who say "one more bat won't help" are probably right. But, I think the perception that the front office is TRYING to do something to improve the club would go a long way in appeasing fans. Kip Wells? You gotta be kidding (unless this leads to a trade)!!