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View Full Version : Why i severely dislike umpires!!!



bgwilly31
07-08-2009, 09:21 PM
Ok anybody watching the game tonight will probably know what im talking about.

This last one up against Dickerson just set me off. I was getting a bit flustered with the guy behind the plate all game but this dickerson one at the end of the 7th is just absolutely rediculous!

Dickerson is called out on VERY VERY low called 3rd strike. I believe all the outs that innig have been called third strikes against the reds.

But the umpire calls this 3rd strike. Dickerson Quickly says something along the lines of Oh cmon" or bull**** a quick comment we all make in high tense situation. This MALL COP umpire presides to tear off his mask BARKING spitting AND FOLLOWING dickerson back to the dugout. Granted dickerson hasnt said a word since the quick comment.

IMO umpires like this guy should be fined for provoking a player to turn around and say something back. UMPIRES need to be trained to keep their dang mouths shut. You cant follow a player back to the dugout barking sweet nothings down his neck and expect nothing in return. If a player did that to a blue he would be quickly ejected from the game.

i cant stand umpires like this who just look like their trying to pick a fight because they can and because they feel HIGH and Mighty because of the authority they have over the game. I know lots of former hall monitor not good enough to play the game type umpires That just like to feel worth something when their behind the plate.


END RANT! /

WILD THING
07-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Much like the situation with Weathers in what I believe was San Diego. The ump with the goofy mustache stared him down and was saying stuff to him the entire time Weathers was walking back to the dugout. While I understand you can't go off on an ump and get away with it, I think it's absolute crap that they can mouth off to you and you're expected to put your head down and not respond.

davereds24
07-08-2009, 09:26 PM
he's been consistent all night

you don't argue balls and strikes

going up against an offense like the phils an ump like this benefits the reds

FlyerFanatic
07-08-2009, 09:45 PM
i mentioned the same thing in the game thread...umps need to be above jawing back at players, i dont really mind stare downs, but jawing back at players is bush league. especially when your job description is that you might be questioned about calls.

goreds2
07-09-2009, 01:44 AM
How about the play at 1st base in the Reds 9th where it looked like he should have been safe? Baker argued but the umpire was professional by not jawing back etc.

markymark69
07-09-2009, 10:33 AM
Ok anybody watching the game tonight will probably know what im talking about.

This last one up against Dickerson just set me off. I was getting a bit flustered with the guy behind the plate all game but this dickerson one at the end of the 7th is just absolutely rediculous!

Dickerson is called out on VERY VERY low called 3rd strike. I believe all the outs that innig have been called third strikes against the reds.

But the umpire calls this 3rd strike. Dickerson Quickly says something along the lines of Oh cmon" or bull**** a quick comment we all make in high tense situation. This MALL COP umpire presides to tear off his mask BARKING spitting AND FOLLOWING dickerson back to the dugout. Granted dickerson hasnt said a word since the quick comment.

IMO umpires like this guy should be fined for provoking a player to turn around and say something back. UMPIRES need to be trained to keep their dang mouths shut. You cant follow a player back to the dugout barking sweet nothings down his neck and expect nothing in return. If a player did that to a blue he would be quickly ejected from the game.

i cant stand umpires like this who just look like their trying to pick a fight because they can and because they feel HIGH and Mighty because of the authority they have over the game. I know lots of former hall monitor not good enough to play the game type umpires That just like to feel worth something when their behind the plate.


END RANT! /


I thought the same thing. Keep your mask on and walk away. The umpiring in this series has left a lot to be desired.

lidspinner
07-09-2009, 04:16 PM
I agree with most....BUT, I also think you should be tossed the "second" you argue a ball or strike....no warnings, no hesitations....your gone. Most umps, including last nights will give you a little leeway but at the same time said ump is gonna give you his thoughts.

FlyerFanatic
07-09-2009, 04:19 PM
I agree with most....BUT, I also think you should be tossed the "second" you argue a ball or strike....no warnings, no hesitations....your gone. Most umps, including last nights will give you a little leeway but at the same time said ump is gonna give you his thoughts.

dont know about that. let the players/coaches holla at bit, if they get up in your face as your walking away, then ya toss em. but if the ump is walking away and a guy is standing and yelling from a distance then just let him play it out. the jawing back is ridiculous by umps

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 04:39 PM
BUT, I also think you should be tossed the "second" you argue a ball or strike....no warnings,.

You would toss everybody out of the game. :rolleyes:

lidspinner
07-10-2009, 08:59 AM
dont know about that. let the players/coaches holla at bit, if they get up in your face as your walking away, then ya toss em. but if the ump is walking away and a guy is standing and yelling from a distance then just let him play it out. the jawing back is ridiculous by umps

why is jawing back from the ump bad but jawing by the players is not? players should not argue NOTHING......we hire and pay absurd amounts to these mangers,let them do the arguing. When players salaries are as high as they are, we cannot afford to lose a player to suspension.....I am just a firm follower of the fact that balls and strikes should not be argued. For no reason at all. not even the slightest mumble.

lidspinner
07-10-2009, 09:05 AM
You would toss everybody out of the game. :rolleyes:

yeah I know....That is one of my few pet peeves about pro sports....players should not argue a call at any cost.....but as we all know, players feel the need to voice their opinion....as if it might change the umpires mind. We have coach's for a reason....let them do their job.
My kid argued a called strike in her softbsll game last week and I asked the coach to yank her out of the game....she had a shutout going into the 5th inning. He obliged.
Kids see these players doing it and they think its OK for them to do it. You can make your point known to an umpire without arguing and throwing your helmet and bat down in disgust.

My point is this....respect the ump and he will respect you. even if the ump sucks....file a complaint if your that pissed about it. arguing does nothing to change his call.........with that said, I loved me some Big Lou P. getting fired up and throwing stuff!!!!! But he is a coach.

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 11:22 AM
why is jawing back from the ump bad but jawing by the players is not? players should not argue NOTHING......we hire and pay absurd amounts to these mangers,let them do the arguing. When players salaries are as high as they are, we cannot afford to lose a player to suspension.....I am just a firm follower of the fact that balls and strikes should not be argued. For no reason at all. not even the slightest mumble.

have you played serious baseball...

sivman17
07-10-2009, 12:34 PM
why is jawing back from the ump bad but jawing by the players is not? players should not argue NOTHING......we hire and pay absurd amounts to these mangers,let them do the arguing. When players salaries are as high as they are, we cannot afford to lose a player to suspension.....I am just a firm follower of the fact that balls and strikes should not be argued. For no reason at all. not even the slightest mumble.


For one, check your grammar. You sound like a 5 year old from Kentucky. Secondly, I hate how managers have to come out and "protect" their players. Half the time they don't get a very good view of the pitch or a play at a base. They can only see the height of the pitch. They have no perception of inside or outside. Why then, should they come out and argue with an umpire if the player thinks a ball was outside? The manager has absolutely NOTHING to go off of, except what the player says. I think players should be able to complain about calls, including balls and strikes. If a pitch was off the plate and it was called a third strike, players have a right to complain. Whoever made up this rule about not arguing balls and strikes was flat out stupid. Umpires are human, and any time a human is making judgment calls there will be mistakes. Why should a player have to live with these mistakes without being able to complain? Now, obviously if they say some choice words to the ump or if they argue excessively, yeah toss them out. But, there's no reason why they can't complain on their way back to the dugout.

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 01:32 PM
If the guy isnt told he's doing something wrong. How will he ever get it right. ^^^

lidspinner
07-10-2009, 01:54 PM
have you played serious baseball...

come on pal.....I have played D3 in college....not serious baseball but still competetive.....and whats that got to do with knowing the game? I supposed all opinions only matter if you played "serious baseball"? I have friends who played for Ohio State and they couldnt sniff some D3 talent, why does it matter if you played serious baseball?
bgwilly, your normally right in the mix of some great conversations on this board, your opinion is usually pretty spot on....but please tell me again why playing the game has anythign to do with knowing the game.

FlyerFanatic
07-10-2009, 01:57 PM
come on pal.....I have played D3 in college....not serious baseball but still competetive.....and whats that got to do with knowing the game? I supposed all opinions only matter if you played "serious baseball"? I have friends who played for Ohio State and they couldnt sniff some D3 talent, why does it matter if you played serious baseball?
bgwilly, your normally right in the mix of some great conversations on this board, your opinion is usually pretty spot on....but please tell me again why playing the game has anythign to do with knowing the game.

i think he means that if you played serious baseball, you understand how competitive it is. players who are passionate and wanna win will argue calls from time to time. which a response to the whole balls and strikes should never be questioned argument.

lidspinner
07-10-2009, 02:02 PM
For one, check your grammar. You sound like a 5 year old from Kentucky. Secondly, I hate how managers have to come out and "protect" their players. Half the time they don't get a very good view of the pitch or a play at a base. They can only see the height of the pitch. They have no perception of inside or outside. Why then, should they come out and argue with an umpire if the player thinks a ball was outside? The manager has absolutely NOTHING to go off of, except what the player says. I think players should be able to complain about calls, including balls and strikes. If a pitch was off the plate and it was called a third strike, players have a right to complain. Whoever made up this rule about not arguing balls and strikes was flat out stupid. Umpires are human, and any time a human is making judgment calls there will be mistakes. Why should a player have to live with these mistakes without being able to complain? Now, obviously if they say some choice words to the ump or if they argue excessively, yeah toss them out. But, there's no reason why they can't complain on their way back to the dugout.

thats a great comeback....standing O for you pal....I am typign al this on my phone so I dont get the honors of havng big keyboard and spell check. Sorre bout hte gramr mi gud man...
Sometimes the manage who sits in the dugout watching a monitor can get a better look at a play then the player.....How many times have you seen a player argue a call only to watch it on replay and wonder what the hell he is arguing about? Alot.....alot of times they are correct also, I am not saying they are wrong.....just saying it gets you nowhere to sit and argue a call. 99% of the time when arguing balls and strikes, the batter is just mad that he struck out or popped up...he then takes his anger out on the ump because the ump made that out for him..."That out is on you ump"...another example is the pitcher only gets mad when a run scores or a guy hits a grand slam.....seldom do you see a pitcher get mad if he walks a guy on a close call then gets a double play....its all good then.

it jsut seems to me that these players argue more because they messed up rather than mad becasue the ump messed up...players are just looking for someone to blame.

GIDP
07-10-2009, 02:04 PM
Umps deserve to get yelled at some times. I see no problem with it. Lets just have a game full of emotionless people.

Heck lets replace umps with robots, and the players while we are at it. I'm sure that would be fun to watch.

lidspinner
07-10-2009, 02:05 PM
i think he means that if you played serious baseball, you understand how competitive it is. players who are passionate and wanna win will argue calls from time to time. which a response to the whole balls and strikes should never be questioned argument.

OK, that i get...sure everyone gets passionate and gets caught up in the heat of the game....I have done it in piddly little mens softball games.....but to blame an umpire for a bad call gets you 100% nowhere. If anything it could make that ump not give you any close calls. Umpires hate being showed up. I understand about competetive juices flowing and all that, I still think players should man up a little and blame themselves over the ump...Umps are human as said earlier....just get it in their heads that umps are gonna make mistakes....they wont change a 3rd strike cause you didnt like it.

lidspinner
07-10-2009, 02:08 PM
If the guy isnt told he's doing something wrong. How will he ever get it right. ^^^

Umpires are judged on their preformance....if I am not mistaken on a monthly basis.....umpires even get graded. So they get told about their mistakes. It just dont get talked about publicly. Read up about their contract and you will see they have tried to get the grading system thrown out for about 25 years now. They get reprimanded for making bad calls....what that reprimand is? I dont know. a smack on the wrist I am assuming, but if they do it over and over again I am sure it gets more serious.

lidspinner
07-10-2009, 02:11 PM
Umps deserve to get yelled at some times. I see no problem with it. Lets just have a game full of emotionless people.

Heck lets replace umps with robots, and the players while we are at it. I'm sure that would be fun to watch.


I am only talking about balls and strikes. a play at 2nd, or close play at the plate.....respectfully argue till your blue in the face and I will sit and watch all say long. Its entertianment. But to argue a strike or a ball is horrible...call me old fashion, balls and strikes are something that players should not argue.....I know its gonna happen in the heat of the moment on rare occasion, I just wish it would happen less.

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 02:47 PM
i think he means that if you played serious baseball, you understand how competitive it is. players who are passionate and wanna win will argue calls from time to time. which a response to the whole balls and strikes should never be questioned argument.

he's spot on lidspinner.

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 02:50 PM
Umpires are judged on their preformance....if I am not mistaken on a monthly basis.....umpires even get graded. So they get told about their mistakes. It just dont get talked about publicly. Read up about their contract and you will see they have tried to get the grading system thrown out for about 25 years now. They get reprimanded for making bad calls....what that reprimand is? I dont know. a smack on the wrist I am assuming, but if they do it over and over again I am sure it gets more serious.

touche. I'd like to see the grade sheet on the umpire that umped the game that were talking about.

sivman17
07-10-2009, 02:52 PM
I am only talking about balls and strikes. a play at 2nd, or close play at the plate.....respectfully argue till your blue in the face and I will sit and watch all say long. Its entertianment. But to argue a strike or a ball is horrible...call me old fashion, balls and strikes are something that players should not argue.....I know its gonna happen in the heat of the moment on rare occasion, I just wish it would happen less.

Why should you not argue balls and strikes? I still don't understand what the big taboo about that is. If it is a horrible called third strike, that's still one out, just as a blown call at first base is one out. It's not like blown calls on balls and strikes count less than blown calls at a base. I just don't understand what the difference is.

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 02:55 PM
I dont understand much of it either. But i guess a strike zone is more a matter of a opionion. It fluctuates a bit from one Umpires lazy eye to another umpires straight eye. We all see the world different so it fluctuates.

scounts22
07-11-2009, 11:07 AM
If the guy isnt told he's doing something wrong. How will he ever get it right. ^^^

What if the player's wrong? Just because a player argues a call doesn't mean he's right either.

bgwilly31
07-11-2009, 11:49 AM
What if the player's wrong? Just because a player argues a call doesn't mean he's right either.

The player will find out on his own. When he's the only one getting K'd up on the rest on the team on watched 3rd strikes.

However if the whole team has a problem, like the game in question, I would have to say the umpire is wrong.

bgwilly31
07-11-2009, 11:52 AM
What if the player's wrong? Just because a player argues a call doesn't mean he's right either.

Also re-read the first post. Im not encouraging or saying players should excessively argue balls and strikes. The main point of the post was chump umpires like the one the other night. Obviously having a terrible strike zone as the whole team is complaining. Even the phillies were complaining a bit on their side. Then a player gives a quick "Oh cmon" And the umpire jumps the players butt about it. Ripping off mask. Screaming, spitting, barking, etc etc etc. :rolleyes:

Fon Duc Tow
07-11-2009, 12:36 PM
Why should you not argue balls and strikes?

Because there is no chance of the ump changing the call, no matter how much the batter complains.

Don't get me wrong...grumbling back to the dugout is one thing. But actually arguing balls/strikes? Any direct confrontation of the umpire should be an automatic ejection because it is pointless.

EDIT: The only exception I would make to this rule is if you want to say that arguing with the umpire is to baseball, as fighting is to hockey. Just this random violent thing that is permitted for entertainment's sake even though it really shouldn't be allowed.

sivman17
07-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Because there is no chance of the ump changing the call, no matter how much the batter complains.

Any direct confrontation of the umpire should be an automatic ejection because it is pointless.


Yeah, the umpire will not change the call, but if the player complains it will make the umpire reconsider and re-think about the call he just made. If the player thinks it was outside, the ump might think to himself, "Yeah, that was a little outside, I need to be more careful the rest of the game." If the player doesn't complain at all, then the ump might keep calling a ball a strike the rest of the game. I used to be an umpire (just for youth leagues, nothing serious like pro baseball or anything), but there would be times when I would make a call and soon after I would realize I made the wrong call. Of course you can't go back and change it or you would look like an idiot, but it makes you more aware of your future calls in the game. These umps do get it right for the most part, but they are not perfect. They are allowed immediate criticism because it may help them the rest of the game.

scounts22
07-11-2009, 08:18 PM
The player will find out on his own. When he's the only one getting K'd up on the rest on the team on watched 3rd strikes.

However if the whole team has a problem, like the game in question, I would have to say the umpire is wrong.


Also re-read the first post. Im not encouraging or saying players should excessively argue balls and strikes. The main point of the post was chump umpires like the one the other night. Obviously having a terrible strike zone as the whole team is complaining. Even the phillies were complaining a bit on their side. Then a player gives a quick "Oh cmon" And the umpire jumps the players butt about it. Ripping off mask. Screaming, spitting, barking, etc etc etc.

I understand what you're saying and completely agree that an umpire should never provoke a player, however, as someone posted before, it seems that most of the time the players are wrongly arguing a call. Taking criticism, right or wrong, is absolutely part of the umpire's job description. There are only, what, 64 umpires in the league? The players and umps see each other on a pretty regular basis, and I'm willing to bet there's some history there between a few of them. They all (players and umps) have certainly acquired reputations as well, whether they be good or bad. I would imagine the tolerance levels for the umpires with some of the players and/or managers they see on a regular basis would start to lessen after numerous encounters. I know my tolerance for, oh, Carlos Zambrano, with his stupid antics, would be slim to none.

I guess all I'm saying is that players and umpires alike are human, and, of course, are bound to make mistakes. I think the umpires, for the most part, do a pretty good job. It's easy to look at replay after replay from every single angle available and criticize a guy on a close call/play, but I would imagine it's a little more difficult to make those calls in the moment when they actually happen. Everyone can't be perfect all the time. Sometimes you're just gonna have a crappy game.