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View Full Version : Did we just get Rolen for EE and a minor league pitcher?



Kingspoint
07-08-2009, 10:37 PM
It's being reported as such in the Chat room here.

Shawn_RedsFan
07-08-2009, 10:40 PM
where you see this at? :confused:

DTCromer
07-08-2009, 10:41 PM
redlegs reported that Blue Jays radio is reporting there's a deal in the works for Rolen for EE and a minor leaguer

nemesis
07-08-2009, 10:42 PM
This would make me a VERY happy kid...


EDIT: Unless that prospect is Heisley

Shawn_RedsFan
07-08-2009, 10:46 PM
can i get a link?

cbowen2112
07-08-2009, 10:48 PM
he claims he heard it was on the blue jays radio broadcast...let's keep fingers crossed...

GIDP
07-08-2009, 10:50 PM
What a bad idea

xavr1
07-08-2009, 10:52 PM
Depends on the minor leaguer. COuldnt buy Rolen any higher. Hes on a 26 game hitting streak and hitting better than he has in years.

Aces Wild
07-08-2009, 10:54 PM
Why trade a young (albeit struggling) 3rd baseman with upside for a declining highly paid 3rd baseman???........oh and then add a minor league pitcher. I hope this rumor is false, because although it improves us this year, it handcuffs us payroll wise for then next 2.

Cant Touch This
07-08-2009, 10:54 PM
2 for 3 tonight so far, putting him at .329 for the season. That's about 200 points higher than Edwin.

rolenmvp
07-08-2009, 10:54 PM
I was the guy that said it, They're is a trade in the works that would send rolen to cincinnati for EE and 1 minor league pitcher in louisville, was reported on the bluejays radio broadcast team earlier tonight.

Deal is on the table, isnt official yet but, it could be weekend before we know anything because rolen is supposed to meet with jocketty by phone this week or weekend.

captainmorgan07
07-08-2009, 10:56 PM
Hopefully this is true Edwin has had enough time to prove himself and hasn't done it. Way to streaky at the plate and in the field. Rolen is smoking hot right now and would be a major boost to our struggling offense.

Aces Wild
07-08-2009, 10:57 PM
I'd rather spend 11 million this off season on a sure fire STUD hitter, and not be saddled with 2 more years of Rolen

texasdave
07-08-2009, 10:57 PM
The Reds couldn't get that lucky. Rolen for Encarnacion. In a heartbeat.

texasdave
07-08-2009, 10:59 PM
The last year of Rolen's contract is 2010 according to Cot's. And if Rolen plays anything in 2010 as he is in 2009 he will be worth every penny.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 10:59 PM
This is a made up rumor

texasdave
07-08-2009, 11:00 PM
This is a made up rumor

Quite possible. Wouldn't be the first.

rolenmvp
07-08-2009, 11:01 PM
nope, It isnt made up. I heard it bro, It was on the bluejays radio broadcast tonight, They were just discussing the deal.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:03 PM
A injury plagued player, for a guy who hits just as well as a career, is almost 10 years younger and making way less money.

I dont sounds like a plan to get Hairston more time at 3rd base to me.

rolenmvp
07-08-2009, 11:05 PM
think about it though? Rolen between votto and phillips. That would be a deadly combo.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:06 PM
Yea if he hits like he did years ago and has been this season sure.

but odds are he doesnt and he spends a lot of time on DL anyways.

texasdave
07-08-2009, 11:09 PM
Since the start of the 2006 season (Edwin's first full season), Rolen has played in more games than Encarnacion. He has hit better. He has fielded better. Make that trade, please.

rolenmvp
07-08-2009, 11:09 PM
Yeah I agree with you on the DL thing but, imagine what his numbers would be like at GABP He would do wonders for this ballclub, Hes hitting at a 326 clip.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:12 PM
Since the start of the 2006 season (Edwin's first full season), Rolen has played in more games than Encarnacion. He has hit better. He has fielded better. Make that trade, please.

117 games is a full year?

aubashbrother
07-08-2009, 11:13 PM
You hear it on TV ? Cuz i have extra innings and the Blue Jays feed is not on anywhere

texasdave
07-08-2009, 11:13 PM
He was with the team from the start of the season. He came up at the end of 2005. So, yes, that was his first full season.

rolenmvp
07-08-2009, 11:14 PM
I heard it on theyre radio feed man. Sirius radio man.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:14 PM
He was with the team from the start of the season. He came up at the end of 2005. So, yes, that was his first full season.

He still was in the minors for part of the year at age 23.

TheBigLebowski
07-08-2009, 11:15 PM
I have no confidence whatsoever that there is any validity to this but I would be overjoyed, provided the minor leaguer was not of any real value.

aubashbrother
07-08-2009, 11:15 PM
just out of curiosity but why were you listening to the blue jays radio feed

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:15 PM
What inning was this rumor reported?

texasdave
07-08-2009, 11:17 PM
He still was in the minors for part of the year at age 23.

He missed over a month of the season with an injury in 2006. He also missed over two months this year with an injury. Sounds injury-plagued to me.

rolenmvp
07-08-2009, 11:18 PM
about the 6th inning.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:18 PM
He missed over a month of the season with an injury in 2006. He also missed over two months this year with an injury. Sounds injury-plagued to me.

Thats just because you dont understand what injury plagued means.

texasdave
07-08-2009, 11:20 PM
Let me take a guess here. Injury plagued means plagued by injuries. Is that it?

Hey Meat
07-08-2009, 11:22 PM
I would take injury plagued consistent hitter over moody injury plagued bad fielder anyday.

texasdave
07-08-2009, 11:23 PM
I would take Scott Rolen over Edwin Encarnacion every single day of the week.

Hey Meat
07-08-2009, 11:26 PM
Just watched him strike out, but I would still take him.

TheBigLebowski
07-08-2009, 11:26 PM
Yeah, I think I'm done waiting for EdE to become a good player. Don't think it's going to happen anymore. But there is still nothing to be excited about here. If this was reported in the 6th, Bakermetrics would have had to have pulled Edwin from the game.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:27 PM
Let me take a guess here. Injury plagued means plagued by injuries. Is that it?

To say edwin is injury plagued because he has had 2 injuries in 4 years is awesome.

WILD THING
07-08-2009, 11:27 PM
I'll be dancing in the streets if this happens. I have always liked/supported EdE, but lately I've realized I'm tired of waiting for him to come around. I know he's young still, but I feel like its the same story every season.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:28 PM
on the other hand Rolen makes a so called "injury plagued" edwin look like iron man.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:30 PM
Yeah, I think I'm done waiting for EdE to become a good player. Don't think it's going to happen anymore. But there is still nothing to be excited about here. If this was reported in the 6th, Bakermetrics would have had to have pulled Edwin from the game.

Let me guess you have given up on Bruce and Bailey at least once before also.

Aces Wild
07-08-2009, 11:30 PM
I would take Rolen for EE to if all things were equal, but they are not. If we make this trade we are not going to get another big bat in FA.......dude makes 11 million a year. Your basically gambling an aquisition of a big bat next season on 2 things.......

1. Rolen is enough this year to make the playoffs
2. He plays next year like he did this year, and remains healthy.


I'm not sure I'm willing to take those gambles, but that's just me

texasdave
07-08-2009, 11:35 PM
on the other hand Rolen makes a so called "injury plagued" edwin look like iron man.

Which is why Rolen has played in more games than Encarnacion has since the start of the 2006 season. I think most people would agree that two injuries that cause a player to miss more than a month each time in less than four seasons is significant.

Redsnake
07-08-2009, 11:37 PM
Let's all face it, we have been waiting for EE's potential. It hasn't happened and as long as another team thinks they can turn him around then he has value. (Never thought I would say that). Time to move forward. Bye EE I wish you the best, but we want a 3rd baseman that HAS performed in the past and present.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:42 PM
Which is why Rolen has played in more games than Encarnacion has since the start of the 2006 season. I think most people would agree that two injuries that cause a player to miss more than a month each time in less than four seasons is significant.

and 2006 was the last year he was ever healthy

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:44 PM
Rolen was injured in 05, 07, 08. 3 of the last 4 years. but you want to say Edwin has health problems ....

TheBigLebowski
07-08-2009, 11:47 PM
Let me guess you have given up on Bruce and Bailey at least once before also.

You couldn't be more wrong. I have consistently been one of the staunchest Homer Bailey supporters around. Same for Bruce. Never EVER given up on either. But EdE is 26 now, I believe, and he's just not getting any better. But thanks for playing.

GIDP
07-08-2009, 11:50 PM
You couldn't be more wrong. I have consistently been one of the staunchest Homer Bailey supporters around. Same for Bruce. Never EVER given up on either. But EdE is 26 now, I believe, and he's just not getting any better. But thanks for playing.

He has hit better than Rolen has the last 2 years. I dont want to say I love Edwin but is he worth giving up on for Rolen? Rolen has a messed up back, a messed up shoulder, and add to the injuries already hes playing on turf. I just dont see why you would sell low on Edwin, just to buy high on Rolen.

TheBigLebowski
07-09-2009, 12:01 AM
He has hit better than Rolen has the last 2 years. I dont want to say I love Edwin but is he worth giving up on for Rolen? Rolen has a messed up back, a messed up shoulder, and add to the injuries already hes playing on turf. I just dont see why you would sell low on Edwin, just to buy high on Rolen.

Rolen is a gold-glove defender and has proven over his career that he is a good hitter. And Rolen is healthy now. Heck, I'd be fine with keeping EdE and shipping them someone else for Rolen provided we had plans to move Edwin to the outfield or something but EdE's future is clearly not at third. It's not the ideal move if we're looking to be buyers, and I feel this team should be selling...but there's just no question it makes us better and puts us in a decent position to compete in this horrible division.

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 12:03 AM
Well did the trade happened or not?

GIDP
07-09-2009, 12:06 AM
Rolen is a gold-glove defender and has proven over his career that he is a good hitter. And Rolen is healthy now. Heck, I'd be fine with keeping EdE and shipping them someone else for Rolen provided we had plans to move Edwin to the outfield or something but EdE's future is clearly not at third. It's not the ideal move if we're looking to be buyers, and I feel this team should be selling...but there's just no question it makes us better and puts us in a decent position to compete in this horrible division.

I dont know if I trust that rolen is going to be healthy enough to be worth the salary or be worth giving up a decent play in edwin who even though is 26 is still pretty young.

TheBigLebowski
07-09-2009, 12:10 AM
I dont know if I trust that rolen is going to be healthy enough to be worth the salary or be worth giving up a decent play in edwin who even though is 26 is still pretty young.

Certainly Rolen's health is a concern but, let's face it - we've been without EdE almost this entire season anyway. Health is such a freaking gamble when you're talking about grown men playing 140+ baseball games in a year.

FlightRick
07-09-2009, 12:13 AM
The only reason not to do this is if you think Edwin is the Answer at 3B beyond 2010. If you think that, then fine: this trade becomes unfathomably stupid.

But if you look at our farm system and posit a solution at 3B in 2011 NOT named Encarnacion (and we might have one by then), then you have to SERIOUSLY think about this deal. Rolen's not the Answer beyond 2010, either... but he sure could be the simultaneous stopgap/upgrade who gets us to 2011. And it's really not THAT big of a difference in dollars. Edwin makes $5m next year; Rolen makes $11m.

If they repeat their 2009s, that extra payroll is MORE than worth it. If they just regress to the proverbial "backs of their baseball cards," it's still probably worth it. That's a pair of dice worth rolling, I think.

But hey, why do a relatively straight-up deal? Go big or go home, I say! If the Reds are somehow magically going to be in the market for legit difference-makers like Rolen (even though we probably need 3 Difference Makers to seriously think about the playoffs this year), then why not fantasize about the Reds doing a blockbuster?

How about:

Edwin Encarnacion
Bronson Arroyo (a/k/a "Inverse Pile o' Cash")
3 Legit Prospects (1 of our aging-but-solid MiLB RP, 1 of Stubbs/Heisey, 1 other)
FOR
Scott Rolen
Roy Halladay
Alex Rios (a/k/a "Ginormous Contract Boy")

Toronto gets "plug-and-play" replacements at 3B and SP that are MLB proven, but cheaper than what they're paying for now. Also: both EE and Arroyo are off the books after 2010, and will be good for at least type-B compensation draft picks.

The Reds get upgrades at 3B and SP, at a nominal increase in cost, but like Toronto, they can be off the hook with both after 2010. And unlike Toronto, the Reds are all-but guaranteed that Rolen and Halladay would BOTH be Type-A free agents, and that'd be like 4 free draft picks. In other words: the salary differential for one-and-one-half seasons nets us 4 extra top 50 picks.

After that, it gets sticky, because you're basically taking on Rios' contract in exchange for 3 promising prospects (albeit ones where we'd deal from areas of surplus, especially in CF and RP). For Toronto, this is the deal sweetener that they NEED to pull the trigger on the trade. For us, it's a giant risk that the "change of scenery" works out for Rios and turns him into the everyday corner OF we'd need him to be in exchange for the $60m he's got remaining on a contract through the middle of next decade.

But hey, like I said: go big or go home. If we're imagining XBox-style fantasy trades, then why not imagine this one?


Rick

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 12:13 AM
the blue jays game isn't over yet, they can't annouce any trade until the game is over.

redram
07-09-2009, 12:13 AM
Why trade a young (albeit struggling) 3rd baseman with upside for a declining highly paid 3rd baseman???........oh and then add a minor league pitcher. I hope this rumor is false, because although it improves us this year, it handcuffs us payroll wise for then next 2.

You must be kidding right? Please tell me you are kidding. Edwin has had a so called up side for years but all we get is his down side and his lack of emotion and drive to win and get better. I would make this trade in a heart beat.

BluegrassRedleg
07-09-2009, 12:14 AM
The Reds couldn't get that lucky. Rolen for Encarnacion. In a heartbeat.

Hell, I'd do it for the glove alone. :p:

xavr1
07-09-2009, 12:18 AM
I dont understand why we would address the 3B need which, although a need, isnt as glaring as SS or OF. I am not an EE apologist, nor do I think he is going to realize this great "potential" we always talk about. But I am still more comfortable with him at 3rd than Hairston/Gonzo/Janish at SS or a platoon in LF.

If we're making a big deal, lets go for those positions.

BUTLER REDSFAN
07-09-2009, 12:20 AM
jays game just ended

Plus Plus
07-09-2009, 12:20 AM
To be fair, a substantial upgrade at 3b (re: Rolen) could help offset a weakness at SS without overpaying to get value there.

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 12:21 AM
did rolen play the full game?

texasdave
07-09-2009, 12:30 AM
But hey, like I said: go big or go home. If we're imagining XBox-style fantasy trades, then why not imagine this one?

I would have no problem "going big". But it takes two to play that game. And if Toronto doesn't wish to participate, I still would rather "go home" with Rolen than Encarnacion.

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 12:31 AM
Yea if he hits like he did years ago and has been this season sure.

but odds are he doesnt and he spends a lot of time on DL anyways.

GIDP is a EE fanatic. OF course he will be against the BEST MOVE for the reds in years if this goes down!

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 12:33 AM
I think it's made up, the guy who reported it only has 6 posts.

Grande Donkey
07-09-2009, 12:35 AM
Absolutely nothing about it on any blue jay message boards.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 12:35 AM
GIDP is a EE fanatic. OF course he will be against the BEST MOVE for the reds in years if this goes down!

:laugh:

FlightRick
07-09-2009, 12:36 AM
I would have no problem "going big". But it takes two to play that game. And if Toronto doesn't wish to participate, I still would rather "go home" with Rolen than Encarnacion.

I agree; like I said, EE-for-Rolen is a pair of dice worth rolling.

I don't honestly think we'd get Toronto to go for the Trifecta Blockbuster... I'm actually quite certain that their mindset right now is that they want to move Rolen and ONE of Halladay/Rios. And then that's it. If they move Rolen/Rios, they can afford to re-up with Halladay. If they move Rolen/Halladay, they can afford to keep Rios and his big contract.

I seriously doubt they'd move all three. But it's fun to fantasize. And given some of the trade proposals I see on message boards, this was one fantasy that was only 80% ridiculous....


Rick

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 12:44 AM
:laugh:


EE at this point, his only hope is a change of scenary. he plays emotionless here. Shows no Want in anything and his play reflects that. EE has been dead weight here for a couple yrs now. Moving on and picking up rolen to possibly ignite this offense enough to make a run at a wild card or a divisional win. Is definitely worth while.

toledoreds
07-09-2009, 01:09 AM
If there is anything to this deal it would be posted on tsn.ca
they have all the scopes on the blue jays and hockey if anyone is interested in hockey :)
its a pretty good site.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 01:11 AM
EE at this point, his only hope is a change of scenary. he plays emotionless here. Shows no Want in anything and his play reflects that. EE has been dead weight here for a couple yrs now. Moving on and picking up rolen to possibly ignite this offense enough to make a run at a wild card or a divisional win. Is definitely worth while.

Edwin is dead weight :eek:

If you are worried about igniting the offense I dont know how you justify trading a higher OPS the last 2 years for one that had a lower OPS in 08 and 07.

Then again you cant just be wanting to trade edwin because of numbers this year and only this year right?

We get it you love Rolen, hate Edwin, but dont let some facts get in the way of your opinion. At least use some decent arguements like Rolens D is worth it, but the bat? I cant see how you can make that argument.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 01:18 AM
Not like any of this is true anyways.

Plus Plus
07-09-2009, 01:24 AM
Maybe a trade for Rolen is "sticking to the plan" of speed and defense? Rolen is a GG caliber 3b and Encarnacion is an error machine. They are both signed through 2010, when perhaps a new solution arrives through the pipeline.

And Rolen, imo, is a large upgrade over EE, who may be one of the streakiest players that I have ever followed. While Rolen may be in the twilight of his career, I am not sure that EE will ever realize his potential. I will take the older .780 OPS bat in Rolen with GG defense over the younger .800 OPS bat in Encarnacion with beer league defense.

mroby85
07-09-2009, 01:26 AM
Is there anything too this at all? I need proof! lol

fugowitribe
07-09-2009, 01:35 AM
I think it's made up, the guy who reported it only has 6 posts.

Yeah but isn't he smart when this all goes down. :notworthy

Captain Hook
07-09-2009, 02:27 AM
This is a joke.Dude that reported it has never posted in redszone.I don't believe it for a second and won't waste my time commenting any further on this topic.

goreds2
07-09-2009, 02:37 AM
Rolen extends hitting streak to 25 games.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090708&content_id=5772244&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

BLEEDS
07-09-2009, 09:14 AM
Easiest trade in the world to do, IFF it's true.

He finishes this year out - easily besting EE at the plate, and TONS better in the field.
Rolen's contract ends in 2010. I'm sure he'll finish strong given that he'll want another contract, so he'll have the quote "contract year" unquote.
2011 rolls around, we've got like 3 guys slated to be ready for a 2010 call-up who could start 2011 CHEAP and with big production projections - Frazier probably gets the lead, but you can also figure the talk of Alonso being ready they could project him to 3B or LF along with Votto.

We have TONS of corner IF prospects, you trade EE in a heartbeat to get a proven veteran for the remainder of 2009 and the entire 2010.
No hesitation.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

aodaniel
07-09-2009, 10:06 AM
Easiest trade in the world to do, IFF it's true.

He finishes this year out - easily besting EE at the plate, and TONS better in the field.
Rolen's contract ends in 2010. I'm sure he'll finish strong given that he'll want another contract, so he'll have the quote "contract year" unquote.
2011 rolls around, we've got like 3 guys slated to be ready for a 2010 call-up who could start 2011 CHEAP and with big production projections - Frazier probably gets the lead, but you can also figure the talk of Alonso being ready they could project him to 3B or LF along with Votto.

We have TONS of corner IF prospects, you trade EE in a heartbeat to get a proven veteran for the remainder of 2009 and the entire 2010.
No hesitation.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I have to agree. I'm not sure EE is ever going to be a consistent hitter and fielder.

Plus Plus
07-09-2009, 11:17 AM
The rumor was stated on the Blue Jays' feed for their game last night as being in serious discussion. I guess the announcers also said that Jocketty will be talking on the phone as soon as today with Rolen to talk with him about the potential trade. This is a report that was not published online or in print, but was committed pretty firmly to in the Jay's feed last night. If you want to read it from a more reputable source, look through the ORG game thread for last night. It was discussed in depth there.

markymark69
07-09-2009, 11:30 AM
I don't know whether it's true or not, but MLBTraderumors.com said that Rolen could possibly be shipped. I have always been a supporter of Encarnacion, but if this is true, you have to pull the trigger. It's clear that Rolen can still play. Jocketty traded for Rolen once --- so it's not out of the question.

I guess we'll wait and see.

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 11:31 AM
What page or pages on the org game thread was it discussed. I think personally it's a bogus rumor.

Red in Atl
07-09-2009, 11:40 AM
If it's too good to be true....

And this is definitely too good to be true. I can't imagine why anyone would want EE, especially for that price. Aren't the Blue Jays in contention. Wouldn't this basically knock them out, especially if they trade Halladay too?

I was done with EE before the season started. I don't care what anyone says, young whatever. This guy has had 4 years to step up and be the man at third. He's been an on the brink failure almost from day one. Now he's in his arbitration years.

If there is a shred of proof to this, do it yesterday!!!

Gary Redus
07-09-2009, 12:09 PM
This is a no-brainer! I'd rather do this than Harang for Kemp. Although I'd love to do both if BA could be moved as well. Is this why Kip Wells was signed? An experienced pitcher to bridge the gap after a series of trades.

GBC Red
07-09-2009, 12:13 PM
What page or pages on the org game thread was it discussed. I think personally it's a bogus rumor.

Page 15 is the first I saw of it.

Slyder
07-09-2009, 12:13 PM
This is a no-brainer! I'd rather do this than Harang for Kemp. Although I'd love to do both if BA could be moved as well. Is this why Kip Wells was signed? An experienced pitcher to bridge the gap after a series of trades.

Kip Wells is surrendering the season. The guy blows and he is AWFUL, Id rather watch Maloney go out there and see whether he can hold together enough to garner some interest in teams for this offseason so that he can be dealt to a place that would fit him better. Theres no reason I want to see Kip Wells anywhere near Cincinnati. Honestly he's too close to it right now by being at Louisville. The guy flamed out in St Louis... that should be all you need to know about his perspectives.

As too Rolen for EE. Whats the point when neither can stay off the DL? Plus Rolen isnt exactly young either. You are rolling a very risky pair of dice relying on Rolen. If he can't hit like this then we've basically screwed ourselves out of any acquitions this offseason with Rolen scheduled to make what he is.

BLEEDS
07-09-2009, 12:16 PM
If it's too good to be true....

And this is definitely too good to be true. I can't imagine why anyone would want EE, especially for that price. Aren't the Blue Jays in contention. Wouldn't this basically knock them out, especially if they trade Halladay too?

I was done with EE before the season started. I don't care what anyone says, young whatever. This guy has had 4 years to step up and be the man at third. He's been an on the brink failure almost from day one. Now he's in his arbitration years.

If there is a shred of proof to this, do it yesterday!!!

Their Payroll is fairly large, and even worse for next year.
They are 9 games out in a division with the Yankees, Red Sox and Rays.
They are in fire sale mode.

Halladay, Rios, Rolen are expensive, not to mention Vernon Wells who's salaries get into the $20M+ range starting next year (if you include his SB payments) I guess they want to keep him.

They'd like to get younger, cheaper, and wait a couple years - hoping the Yanks and BoSox get old and since they both have no prospects, they can compete with the Rays for the division, maybe.

If I were Walt, I'd try to go after Rolen AND Rios, see how much $$ they'd throw in for us to take on that contract. That would shore up our SS for the next 5 years too.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

PEACE

-BLEEDS

GIDP
07-09-2009, 12:29 PM
Maybe a trade for Rolen is "sticking to the plan" of speed and defense? Rolen is a GG caliber 3b and Encarnacion is an error machine. They are both signed through 2010, when perhaps a new solution arrives through the pipeline.

And Rolen, imo, is a large upgrade over EE, who may be one of the streakiest players that I have ever followed. While Rolen may be in the twilight of his career, I am not sure that EE will ever realize his potential. I will take the older .780 OPS bat in Rolen with GG defense over the younger .800 OPS bat in Encarnacion with beer league defense.

speed and defense sit the bench nightly on this team.

Speed and Defense was just a way to get fans from asking about how bad the offense was going to be.

sammonator
07-09-2009, 12:33 PM
Rolen is not in the lineup today. :confused:

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 12:41 PM
Rolen is not in the lineup today. :confused:

Interesting, but that doesn't prove anything, it was like a 4 hour game for them last night.

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 12:46 PM
If it's too good to be true....

And this is definitely too good to be true. I can't imagine why anyone would want EE, especially for that price. !!!

This is exactly why i think its bogus.

But im sad it is bogus:(

markymark69
07-09-2009, 12:54 PM
Interesting, but that doesn't prove anything, it was like a 4 hour game for them last night.

True, but it is interesting that Rolen is mentioned as being shopped in a published report and then the rumor on top of that and he is not in the line-up. Perhaps it's a coincidence, but it is an interesting one.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 01:05 PM
I'm listening to the game and I hear nothing of this rumor.

If you didnt already consider it made up you probably should.

Krawhitham
07-09-2009, 01:09 PM
I give it a week before Rolen is injured and out for the season

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 01:11 PM
BOOOOOOOOOO!:thumbdown

batsfan
07-09-2009, 01:18 PM
Well, I dont know if this has anything to do with this trade, but I can 99.9% garentee that one of the Louisville Bats pitchers will be traded or promoted soon. Why? Because, Kip Wells, after being signed, was put on the Bats reserve roster. There is no way that a veteran pitcher would sign a contract to be put on the AAA reserve roster. And it would make no sense for the Reds to sign Wells, and place him on the reserve roster while keeping Pettyjohn. So that makes me think that he will either be replacing a pitcher called up to replace arroyo or cueto if they are dl'ed, or replace the pitcher who is involved in this deal.

Ghosts of 1990
07-09-2009, 01:27 PM
I don't know what some of you are thinking. Scott Rolen's best days are LONG, LONG behind him. He is on the downside of his career. Edwin still has some value in this game and could turn out to be a cornerstone or at least very solid player. Rolen might never have a nice season again after this year. Count me as one who doesn't want to see this trade go down.

TheBigLebowski
07-09-2009, 02:15 PM
I don't know what some of you are thinking. Scott Rolen's best days are LONG, LONG behind him. He is on the downside of his career. Edwin still has some value in this game and could turn out to be a cornerstone or at least very solid player. Rolen might never have a nice season again after this year. Count me as one who doesn't want to see this trade go down.

Perhaps you are right about Rolen but presently he is much better than EdE. Further, I am growing less and less optimistic that EdE's better days are ahead of him.

JKam
07-09-2009, 02:23 PM
If people are worried about Rolen's large contract, I wonder if Toronto will be required to pick up some of the tab? Maybe if we throw in a decent enough prospect in the deal, Toronto ends up paying the bulk of it.

batsfan
07-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Well, I dont know if this has anything to do with this trade, but I can 99.9% garentee that one of the Louisville Bats pitchers will be traded or promoted soon. Why? Because, Kip Wells, after being signed, was put on the Bats reserve roster. There is no way that a veteran pitcher would sign a contract to be put on the AAA reserve roster. And it would make no sense for the Reds to sign Wells, and place him on the reserve roster while keeping Pettyjohn. So that makes me think that he will either be replacing a pitcher called up to replace arroyo or cueto if they are dl'ed, or replace the pitcher who is involved in this deal.

In the minor league forum GOYA reported that Kelch has said Jocketty has been at the last few bats games. This deal sounds too good to be true, but something is going on...

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 02:43 PM
I don't know what some of you are thinking. Scott Rolen's best days are LONG, LONG behind him.

Rolen is batting .330 dude with a 25 game hitting streak. EE WON'T EVER do that even in his dreams!

roborobj
07-09-2009, 02:49 PM
Why isn't Matt Maloney pitching tonight???

batsfan
07-09-2009, 02:50 PM
Why isn't Matt Maloney pitching tonight???

Because he pitched in the sunday doubleheader.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 02:50 PM
Rolen is batting .330 dude with a 25 game hitting streak. EE WON'T EVER do that even in his dreams!

Yea I mean Willy Taveras hit .330 once that must mean hes good.

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 03:05 PM
Willy Taveras isn't a proven player like Rolen.

Slyder
07-09-2009, 03:10 PM
I'm not ready to give up on EE, but a position change might be what he needs and take some pressure off.

If they want to get cheaper here's an idea for the board.

Toronto Trades:
3b Scott Rolen

Cincy Trades
CF Willy Tavares (gives them a fall back in CF if they are able to deal anyone)
(Those more familiar with the minors can fill in the blanks)
2-3 other Prospects

Move EE to LF
Promote Stubbs

Lineup:
Dickerson/Stubbs CF
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Rolen 3b
Bruce (Stubbs filling in RF if Bruce needs day off) RF
EE LF
(Insert Catcher Du Jour)
(Insert SS Du Jour)
Pitcher

Ryan Braun made the transition and above average to boot why couldnt Edwin? This premicient on EE and Bruce's bats wake up from their season long slumber. Thoughts?

GIDP
07-09-2009, 03:13 PM
Willy Taveras isn't a proven player like Rolen.
a hitting streak and a .330 average doesnt mean anything, but it didnt stop you from using it as a way to judge a player.

Plus Plus
07-09-2009, 03:20 PM
I'm not ready to give up on EE, but a position change might be what he needs and take some pressure off.

If they want to get cheaper here's an idea for the board.

Toronto Trades:
3b Scott Rolen

Cincy Trades
CF Willy Tavares (gives them a fall back in CF if they are able to deal anyone)
(Those more familiar with the minors can fill in the blanks)
2-3 other Prospects

Move EE to LF
Promote Stubbs

Lineup:
Dickerson/Stubbs CF
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Rolen 3b
Bruce (Stubbs filling in RF if Bruce needs day off) RF
EE LF
(Insert Catcher Du Jour)
(Insert SS Du Jour)
Pitcher

Ryan Braun made the transition and above average to boot why couldnt Edwin? This premicient on EE and Bruce's bats wake up from their season long slumber. Thoughts?

This deal might work if the 2-3 prospects are named Alonso, Stewart, and Cozart. Willy is horrible and there is no way he has any substantial value, if any. The Reds would probably have to take on a large amount of Rolen's salary in this case as well.

Red in Atl
07-09-2009, 03:28 PM
Lineup:
Dickerson/Taveras CF
Phillips 2b
Votto 1b
Rolen 3b
Gomes/Nix lf
Bruce RF
Hernandez/Hanigan C
Hairston SS
Pitcher

I think this lineup gets us the to playoff's as a Wild Card this year. Give them EE and Maloney.

"If wishes were horses, I'd have a ranch..."

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 03:29 PM
I am not juding Rolen from just this year. Rolen has way more power than Taveras. Rolen has a .284 lifetime average, Taveras a 278 lifetime average. Rolen is a 5 time All Star, Taveras is a zero time all star! How many more than 1 all time all star's do the Reds have?
The answer is none! Enough said!!!!!!!

Slyder
07-09-2009, 03:29 PM
This deal might work if the 2-3 prospects are named Alonso, Stewart, and Cozart. Willy is horrible and there is no way he has any substantial value, if any. The Reds would probably have to take on a large amount of Rolen's salary in this case as well.

It would still save them close to 7 mil next year. I dont think that Tavares would be that much of a negative if the Jays thought they had possible suitors for Rios or Wells (yes i know highly unlikely but still someone might roll the dice on Rios).

If it meant getting rid of Tavares and us seeing what some of the farm guys have to give. I'd gladly take on the 7 milish difference between Tavares and Rolen.

If they trade Halladay they are done in the east for a while until whatever boat load he brought in is ready. Tavares could serve as "a warm body" until said time then he walks after next year or becomes 4th of. Or spin him to the white sox for whatever. Cause we all know how much Ozzie and Kenny likes speedy crappy leadoff hitters.

Plus Plus
07-09-2009, 03:30 PM
It would still save them close to 7 mil next year. I dont think that Tavares would be that much of a negative if the Jays thought they had possible suitors for Rios or Wells (yes i know highly unlikely but still someone might roll the dice on Rios).

If they trade Halladay they are done in the east for a while until whatever boat load he brought in is ready. Tavares could serve as "a warm body" until said time then he walks after next year or becomes 4th of. Or spin him to the white sox for whatever. Cause we all know how much Ozzie and Kenny likes speedy crappy leadoff hitters.

The problem is that Taveras is playing worse than replacement level right now. Stats are saying that any warm body that you can possibly round up, even straight from AAA, would be a better contribution than him.

flash
07-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Even thought this seems far-fetched I could see something like this happening. The Blue Jays need starting pitching in a big way. Their 4th and 5th starters just aren't getting it done and their is little on the farm except for a kid named Kyle Phillips. He is a left hand hitting 3bman who decimates right-handed pitching. he doesn't fare very well against lefthanders. Toronto could be trying for a salary dump to pick up a pitcher, and platoon EE with this rookie. I think the Jays want help immediately so they might be looking at Maloney or Lehr. I hope they are not asking for Wood.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 03:45 PM
I am not juding Rolen from just this year. Rolen has way more power than Taveras. Rolen has a .284 lifetime average, Taveras a 278 lifetime average. Rolen is a 5 time All Star, Taveras is a zero time all star! How many more than 1 all time all star's do the Reds have?
The answer is none! Enough said!!!!!!!

Im just saying a .330 average and 25 game hitting streak isnt very indicative of a players skill actual skill.

No one can say Edwin is a worse offensive player because its really not true, unless you want to go back in time and judge Rolen back to 06 and before, and then you just open a huge can of worms because then you would have to want to trade for plenty of players who are past their primes.

You guys are buying high on Rolen. I dont want to say I wouldnt like Rolen, but offensively Edwin isnt the lesser player, and hasnt been since 06, and even if you think Rolen is better he certainly isnt winning the award by some amazing margin. Its almost a wash and if you ask me Edwin has more room to grow, and Rolen only has room to go downward. Do you guys expect Rolen to hit .330 for the rest of the year?

Slyder
07-09-2009, 03:45 PM
The problem is that Taveras is playing worse than replacement level right now. Stats are saying that any warm body that you can possibly round up, even straight from AAA, would be a better contribution than him.

Because he is being misused to the Nth degree because much like Ken Griffey, Adam Dunn, Corey Patterson, Paul Bako last year Duhhsty refuses to acknowledge the fact that he screwed up with putting Tavares in there leading off. He's had 4 multi hit games and at least 1 hit in 9 of the last 10 (granted a few are 1-4 type nights), someone may see an upside as an 8 or 9 type hitter and try to take advantage of his speed. Im not saying he's a cornerstone of a deal but at least a name to mention if the Jays believe they need youngish bodies while still saving some money long term if they are able to unload Rios and/or Wells. Or even find anyone to take Delluci off their hands for a bean.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 03:47 PM
We are using BA to judge players. Why do I waste my time.

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 03:51 PM
We are using BA to judge players. Why do I waste my time.

Want to talk fielding? I will talk about fielding. EE can't carry Rolen's jock fielding wise. Rolen still is a outstanding fielder.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 03:51 PM
I wonder how many people wanting Rolen also wanted to trade Bailey for Dye, or Votto, for Blanton, or Votto for Bedard, or Cueto for Blanton or Bedard.

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 03:52 PM
Yea I mean Willy Taveras hit .330 once that must mean hes good.

What does taveras have to do with EE >?

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 03:56 PM
I wonder how many people wanting Rolen also wanted to trade Bailey for Dye, or Votto, for Blanton, or Votto for Bedard, or Cueto for Blanton or Bedard.

Have you noticed your alone on this and pretty much everyone is jumping on this trade like it would be a great thing for the reds.

Maybe that should tell you something. ;)

Carin4Narron
07-09-2009, 03:58 PM
I wonder how many people wanting Rolen also wanted to trade Bailey for Dye, or Votto, for Blanton, or Votto for Bedard, or Cueto for Blanton or Bedard.

I wasn't one of those people. Look the Reds surived playing without EE. If they can get Rolen for EE. I say go for it. I don't care if its Rolen. But the Reds management needs to act now. I am sick and tired of their lame excuses!

GIDP
07-09-2009, 04:00 PM
Want to talk fielding? I will talk about fielding. EE can't carry Rolen's jock fielding wise. Rolen still is a outstanding fielder.
Finally something worth discussing.

Essentially you are trading 3 years of a younger player for 2 of a 8 year older similar offensive player with better D and double the price.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 04:02 PM
Have you noticed your alone on this and pretty much everyone is jumping on this trade like it would be a great thing for the reds.

Maybe that should tell you something. ;)

It tells me that people remember Rolen as a cardinal, and that no one has said anything other these terrible reasons to make the trade like "he's hitting .330, and I hate EDWIN!"

GIDP
07-09-2009, 04:03 PM
What does taveras have to do with EE >?

Someone brought up Rolen batting .330 and that Edwin would never do that.

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 04:05 PM
No it tells you that replacing a guy struggling to keep his avg. above .100 for a guy tearing the cover off the ball batting .330 is a BIG + for a team struggling to hit the broadside of a barn right now. Not to mention has a better glove and EE is dead weight, at least in cincinnati. He's the perfect example of a player that needs a change of scenary.

Plus Plus
07-09-2009, 04:07 PM
The difference in D is monumental though. Encarnacion is 25+ runs worse per season with the glove, according to Baseball-reference.com. The upgrade is going from a sieve to a gold glover.

As stated earlier, the question isn't "is Rolen or Encarnacion the better player historically/this year/last year/next year." The question really is "is Encarnacion the answer at 3b long term?" If the Reds believe so, they will not move him. If they do not, then they would be smart to make this trade, and try and fill the hole in 2 years. I am in the camp that does not believe Encarnacion is the long-term answer at 3b (I like Frazier here, even though he has been playing COF recently in the minors).

GIDP
07-09-2009, 04:24 PM
No it tells you that replacing a guy struggling to keep his avg. above .100 for a guy tearing the cover off the ball batting .330 is a BIG + for a team struggling to hit the broadside of a barn right now. Not to mention has a better glove and EE is dead weight, at least in cincinnati. He's the perfect example of a player that needs a change of scenary.

rolen has no downside in your mind it appears.

Yes rolen is a better 3rd basemen over all as it stands so far this season, but that doesnt mean I would trade Edwin for him. The trade isnt a good one for the Reds. I wouldnt trade Bailey for Mark Buerhle.

I think the package overall isnt a smart deal for the Reds. They are going to be adding payroll for a guy whos missed 50 some games the last 2 season, for someone they control for 3 more years, has room to grow and is 8 years younger.

I'd rather not buy high on Rolen and sell low on Edwin. You guys seem to be jumping at the chance. This time last year I think everyone on the board would have laughed at this deal, but now we are judging it on a hot streak and someone who has 95 PA on the year.

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 05:00 PM
Yeah last year many people were still holding onto EE last 15 game stretch where he actually hit the ball.

But there has been a a bundle of us that have seen EE's downfall for a couple years coming now and have been tired of it.

BTW im not a rolen fan. lol. But facts are facts. Right now rolen is worlds better than EE. And like somebody said EE is not a worldseries type 3b. So why keep him. Why milk the guy for the next 5 yrs. Lets use rolen for what we can this year and move on to another young talent.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 05:03 PM
Yeah last year many people were still holding onto EE last 15 game stretch where he actually hit the ball.

But there has been a a bundle of us that have seen EE's downfall for a couple years coming now and have been tired of it.

BTW im not a rolen fan. lol. But facts are facts. Right now rolen is worlds better than EE. And like somebody said EE is not a worldseries type 3b. So why keep him. Why milk the guy for the next 5 yrs. Lets use rolen for what we can this year and move on to another young talent.

does Rolen health not bother you at all? It certainly is a big flag for me. Id hate to see us do a trade like this, then have Rolen drop out with another back or shoulder problem. It would leave us stuck with Hairston at 3rd.

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 05:37 PM
does Rolen health not bother you at all? It certainly is a big flag for me. Id hate to see us do a trade like this, then have Rolen drop out with another back or shoulder problem. It would leave us stuck with Hairston at 3rd.



Yeah which at this point i would rather have that than EE at 3b. And whos to say a simple headfirst slide wont re injure EE wrist.

improbus
07-09-2009, 05:48 PM
Anyone else notice that Rolen didn't play today to "rest", even though he has a 25 game hitting streak.

gilpdawg
07-09-2009, 05:53 PM
They give him off about a day per week. I know, he's on my rotisserie team.

GIDP
07-09-2009, 06:07 PM
Yeah which at this point i would rather have that than EE at 3b. And whos to say a simple headfirst slide wont re injure EE wrist.

You would rather have Hairston at 3rd over Edwin? I cant even begin to understand the thought process behind that.

nemesis
07-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Once again, this all boils down to "is EE our long term answer at 3B?".

If the Reds FO thinks he is then they wont trade him. But obviously that's not the case because according to MLBTR now we are looking at Atkins. Maybe that's a ploy to get the Blue J's to react and take our deal for Rolen or maybe Jocketty has a real man crush on him since he tried once before to aquire him...


Smoke, Fire, Fire, Smoke.

Our biggest logjam in the Minors is 3B. From Valakia, to Frazier, to Fransicico, to Soto.

With as big of a mental block as EdE gets in the field and at the plate from time to time how do you think he will respond if the Reds brought up Frazier to play a little 3B? Who would you rather have him learn from? I make the move and hedge my bets.

Carolina Red
07-09-2009, 06:44 PM
I have been praying for a this deal to happen. I had a feeling that with Jocketty's relationship with Rolen that he might try to get him from Toronto. Rolen was a Reds fan as a child and has always wanted to play here. And getting rid of EE is a bonus. He is horrible. Now let's work a deal to get Arroyo and Taveras outta here.

Shawn_RedsFan
07-09-2009, 06:46 PM
I would love to see this happen but it can't be too serious yet, Edwin is in the lineup tonight.

DTCromer
07-09-2009, 06:49 PM
does Rolen health not bother you at all? It certainly is a big flag for me. Id hate to see us do a trade like this, then have Rolen drop out with another back or shoulder problem. It would leave us stuck with Hairston at 3rd.

Eddie E's ability to throw the ball to first base bothers me more than anything about Rolen.

Kingspoint
07-09-2009, 07:18 PM
Edwin has always had some issues.

A lot of fans see in him a lack of desire.

Some see him hack away at pitches he shouldn't.

Many are bothered by his rockets into the stands.

Then there's the Managers. There doesn't seem to be one yet that he's gotten along with.

He's the only "regular" that has been sent down in the minors to get his act together over the last several years. He was even kept down this time for longer than what appeared to be necessary, healthwise, and it appeared to be for other reasons.

Dusty surely was in no hurry to have him back, in fact it seemed the opposite, that he didn't want him back.

There seems to be a lot more to EE and the REDS than how he plays baseball. It doesn't really come out, nor should it, but there definitely seems to be something that has nothing to do with playing baseball.

You can look at Rolen and Atkins as being lateral moves when EE's put up .800 OPS's since he's been in the Majors. There aren't very many 3rd Basemen who you can say will give you .850-900 OPS' this season that makes trading for them a positive move when it means giving up on a "young" EE.

EE's had some horrific starts to his seasons....2007, when he was sent down, and this year, where his OPS is at .600 again, like it was in 2007.

But, look who Dusty favors! Hairston and his .700 OPS and horrible defense, and Taveras and his .600 OPS and his average defense.

Maybe they don't like him in the clubhouse. Who knows?

It's very confusing.

One thing that you can count on, though, is that EE will hit very well from July 1st to Oct 1. He's done it every year of his career. He's OPS'd about .850 over that time. That's fantastic. His personality must be so horrific to offset those numbers in order to have Management even discussing the idea of a trade.

The EE saga continues...

Kingspoint
07-09-2009, 07:23 PM
I don't know what some of you are thinking. Scott Rolen's best days are LONG, LONG behind him. He is on the downside of his career. Edwin still has some value in this game and could turn out to be a cornerstone or at least very solid player. Rolen might never have a nice season again after this year. Count me as one who doesn't want to see this trade go down.

Got to agree with you here.

Players' careers are on bell curves, and then there's always one spike on the downside of the bell curve that comes about 5 years after the peak of the curve. That's the year Rolen is having this year. After the spike the dropoff continues along that bell curve as if that spike had never happened.

That said, this year isn't a fluke for Rolen, it's expected, and he should continue having this good of a season for the rest of the year. If we are to contend for the Division Title this season, getting a player like this would be a good thing. I just hope Walt doesn't make a lop-sided deal to do this. It's not likely Rolen has a good year next year, and at $11M, he'll handcuff the team from making any Free Agent improvements over the Winter.

Kingspoint
07-09-2009, 07:31 PM
I'd rather not buy high on Rolen and sell low on Edwin.

Bingo!


That's how franchises go in the dumps.


See Jim Bowden.

Kingspoint
07-09-2009, 07:32 PM
They give him off about a day per week. I know, he's on my rotisserie team.

Because he's old and has a history of injuries.

kfm
07-09-2009, 07:35 PM
Got to agree with you here.

Players' careers are on bell curves, and then there's always one spike on the downside of the bell curve that comes about 5 years after the peak of the curve. That's the year Rolen is having this year. After the spike the dropoff continues along that bell curve as if that spike had never happened.

That said, this year isn't a fluke for Rolen, it's expected, and he should continue having this good of a season for the rest of the year. If we are to contend for the Division Title this season, getting a player like this would be a good thing. I just hope Walt doesn't make a lop-sided deal to do this. It's not likely Rolen has a good year next year, and at $11M, he'll handcuff the team from making any Free Agent improvements over the Winter.

I have to agree.

kfm
07-09-2009, 07:43 PM
Below are Edwin's career stats as a red. Can someone who really dislikes Edwin explain why you find him so bad that you don't even want him on your team. I am wondering if this is a matter of Edwin not living up to expections and therefore he is a disappointment or do people just think he is a bad player. Please be as specific as you can be for your reasoning. I for one think Edwin is caught in the you didn't turn out to be the great player we thought, therefore you are useless category. If Adam Rosales put up these numbers, I think people would be very pleased.
Batting
Year Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2005 CIN 69 211 25 49 16 0 9 31 20 60 3 0 .232 .308 .436 .744
2006 CIN 117 406 60 112 33 1 15 72 41 78 6 3 .276 .359 .473 .831
2007 CIN 139 502 66 145 25 1 16 76 39 86 8 1 .289 .356 .438 .794
2008 CIN 146 506 75 127 29 1 26 68 61 102 1 0 .251 .340 .466 .807
2009 CIN 25 80 2 12 2 0 1 6 13 25 1 1 .150 .284 .213 .497
Career 496 1705 228 445 105 3 67 253 174 351 19 5 .261 .342 .444 .786

gilpdawg
07-09-2009, 08:16 PM
Because he's old and has a history of injuries.

Of course. I didn't think that needed to be stated.

gilpdawg
07-09-2009, 08:17 PM
Below are Edwin's career stats as a red. Can someone who really dislikes Edwin explain why you find him so bad that you don't even want him on your team. I am wondering if this is a matter of Edwin not living up to expections and therefore he is a disappointment or do people just think he is a bad player. Please be as specific as you can be for your reasoning. I for one think Edwin is caught in the you didn't turn out to be the great player we thought, therefore you are useless category. If Adam Rosales put up these numbers, I think people would be very pleased.
Batting
Year Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2005 CIN 69 211 25 49 16 0 9 31 20 60 3 0 .232 .308 .436 .744
2006 CIN 117 406 60 112 33 1 15 72 41 78 6 3 .276 .359 .473 .831
2007 CIN 139 502 66 145 25 1 16 76 39 86 8 1 .289 .356 .438 .794
2008 CIN 146 506 75 127 29 1 26 68 61 102 1 0 .251 .340 .466 .807
2009 CIN 25 80 2 12 2 0 1 6 13 25 1 1 .150 .284 .213 .497
Career 496 1705 228 445 105 3 67 253 174 351 19 5 .261 .342 .444 .786

Adam Rosales wouldn't put up those numbers if Jose Canseco and Barry Bonds were his doctors.

demas863
07-09-2009, 08:41 PM
I would love to see this happen but it can't be too serious yet, Edwin is in the lineup tonight.

Just tripled and drove in two. Keep him.....at least till next week:)

bgwilly31
07-09-2009, 09:02 PM
He's also facing a 83mph fast ball tonight. I could triple off this guy. As a matter of fact i would homer off this guy. :cool:

Kingspoint
07-09-2009, 09:07 PM
He's also facing a 83mph fast ball tonight. I could triple off this guy. As a matter of fact i would homer off this guy. :cool:

Moyer came into this game hot.

Only 6 runs had been scored against the Phillies in his last 3 starts.

mattfeet
07-09-2009, 10:03 PM
Im not sure how I feel about this deal. EE isn't bad, and Rolen is a far more valuable player IMO. My only hesitation is whether or not Rolen's value is worth the increase in salary. He'd give us a solid veteran bat in place of EE who we all know is struggling this year. We'll see how this pans out. Ill welcome it for starters. If nothing else, this just shows that we FINALLY have a front office who is WILLING to make changes. Whether or not they are the best choices is a moot point IMO. It's nice just having people who are trying to build a respectable and winning ball club. You have to walk before you can run...

-Matt

kfm
07-09-2009, 10:58 PM
He's also facing a 83mph fast ball tonight. I could triple off this guy. As a matter of fact i would homer off this guy. :cool:

So what is the rest of the teams excuse?

Captain Hook
07-09-2009, 11:08 PM
Rumors, rumors, rumors - all false
By Hal McCoy | Thursday, July 9, 2009, 06:52 PM

RUMOR OFF-CENTRAL:

No, the Cincinnati Reds are NOT going to sign pitcher Pedro Martinez, as one scout suggested. Martinez will undergo a physical, probably on Saturday, and if he passes the Philadelphia Phillies will announce he belongs to them.

The Reds have a better chance of signing Pedro Serrano from the movie Major League, but they already had him in the personage of Wily Mo Pena.

No, the Cincinnati Reds are NOT acquiring third baseman Scott Rolen from Toronto for Edwin Encarnacion and a top pitching prospect, as was “reported” on a web-site. The web-site said the trade was reported on the Toronto radio network that carries the Blue Jays, but if that’s true, nobody heard it.

Rolen makes $11 milllion this year and $11 million next year, way over the heads of the Reds. The report also said the deal would be announced this weekend after GM Walt Jocketty was finished re-negotiating Rolen’s contract. That’s called tampering and is against the rules and Jocketty wouldn’t do it

Rolen, an Indiana guy, loves Cincinnati and may eventually play for the Reds. But not now and not next year.

No, the Cincinnati Reds are not acquiring Garret Atkins from the Rockies for pitchers David Weathers and Nick Masset. Atkins is making $7.05 million and is having a terrible year. The bullpen has been the best part of the Reds this year (until the last week).

As a Reds official said, “We already have a third baseman, so where would Atkins play? There are only a couple of teams that can take on $18 million in salary.” And the Reds ain’t one of ‘em.

Any more rumors need discounted?

I don't know if this has been posted here yet because I'm sick of reading about all the trades that this team will never do.I can't see us taking on any payroll personally.Fay certainly doesn't know everything going on behind closed doors but he does know more then the people that started most of these rumors.

GIDP
07-10-2009, 12:56 AM
Edwin after coming back from the DL = .889 OPS. if my math is correct

Carin4Narron
07-10-2009, 10:40 AM
I just got this email from Hal McCoy,

Totally made up, totally fabricated. Where are the Reds going to get $16.5 million to pay him from now through 2010?
Hal

Hal McCoy

Enough said!

Let's close this thread.

roby
07-10-2009, 11:13 AM
Rumors, rumors, rumors - all false
By Hal McCoy | Thursday, July 9, 2009, 06:52 PM

RUMOR OFF-CENTRAL:

No, the Cincinnati Reds are NOT going to sign pitcher Pedro Martinez, as one scout suggested. Martinez will undergo a physical, probably on Saturday, and if he passes the Philadelphia Phillies will announce he belongs to them.

The Reds have a better chance of signing Pedro Serrano from the movie Major League, but they already had him in the personage of Wily Mo Pena.

No, the Cincinnati Reds are NOT acquiring third baseman Scott Rolen from Toronto for Edwin Encarnacion and a top pitching prospect, as was “reported” on a web-site. The web-site said the trade was reported on the Toronto radio network that carries the Blue Jays, but if that’s true, nobody heard it.

Rolen makes $11 milllion this year and $11 million next year, way over the heads of the Reds. The report also said the deal would be announced this weekend after GM Walt Jocketty was finished re-negotiating Rolen’s contract. That’s called tampering and is against the rules and Jocketty wouldn’t do it

Rolen, an Indiana guy, loves Cincinnati and may eventually play for the Reds. But not now and not next year.

No, the Cincinnati Reds are not acquiring Garret Atkins from the Rockies for pitchers David Weathers and Nick Masset. Atkins is making $7.05 million and is having a terrible year. The bullpen has been the best part of the Reds this year (until the last week).

As a Reds official said, “We already have a third baseman, so where would Atkins play? There are only a couple of teams that can take on $18 million in salary.” And the Reds ain’t one of ‘em.

Any more rumors need discounted?

I don't know if this has been posted here yet because I'm sick of reading about all the trades that this team will never do.I can't see us taking on any payroll personally.Fay certainly doesn't know everything going on behind closed doors but he does know more then the people that started most of these rumors.

One more rumor to squelch...NO, the Reds aren't going to challenge for the pennant any time soon. Too many excuses, not enough action! :thumbdown

Plus Plus
07-10-2009, 11:22 AM
Rumors, rumors, rumors - all false
By Hal McCoy | Thursday, July 9, 2009, 06:52 PM

RUMOR OFF-CENTRAL:

No, the Cincinnati Reds are NOT going to sign pitcher Pedro Martinez, as one scout suggested. Martinez will undergo a physical, probably on Saturday, and if he passes the Philadelphia Phillies will announce he belongs to them.

The Reds have a better chance of signing Pedro Serrano from the movie Major League, but they already had him in the personage of Wily Mo Pena.

No, the Cincinnati Reds are NOT acquiring third baseman Scott Rolen from Toronto for Edwin Encarnacion and a top pitching prospect, as was “reported” on a web-site. The web-site said the trade was reported on the Toronto radio network that carries the Blue Jays, but if that’s true, nobody heard it.

Rolen makes $11 milllion this year and $11 million next year, way over the heads of the Reds. The report also said the deal would be announced this weekend after GM Walt Jocketty was finished re-negotiating Rolen’s contract. That’s called tampering and is against the rules and Jocketty wouldn’t do it

Rolen, an Indiana guy, loves Cincinnati and may eventually play for the Reds. But not now and not next year.

No, the Cincinnati Reds are not acquiring Garret Atkins from the Rockies for pitchers David Weathers and Nick Masset. Atkins is making $7.05 million and is having a terrible year. The bullpen has been the best part of the Reds this year (until the last week).

As a Reds official said, “We already have a third baseman, so where would Atkins play? There are only a couple of teams that can take on $18 million in salary.” And the Reds ain’t one of ‘em.

Any more rumors need discounted?

I don't know if this has been posted here yet because I'm sick of reading about all the trades that this team will never do.I can't see us taking on any payroll personally.Fay certainly doesn't know everything going on behind closed doors but he does know more then the people that started most of these rumors.

Keep in mind that Hal McCoy is refuting these rumors based on his own opinions, not any published reports. I know that he is often on base, but this is very different than a quote from Jocketty saying that they are not shopping for Rolen.

GIDP
07-10-2009, 11:36 AM
Also remember Hal McCoy is king of being wrong.

texasdave
07-10-2009, 11:41 AM
Hal McCoy is never wrong. Remember that. Geez. (Heavy sarcasm) I do know one poster came on here and posted that he did hear it. I am not sure why he would lie. He didn't appear to be a troll.

Here is another little snippet from the Toronto Sun:


The Cincinnati Reds have talked internally about obtaining third baseman Scott Rolen from the Blue Jays. The trade would re-unite Rolen with general manager Walt Jocketty. The two were together in St. Louis when the Cardinals won the 2006 World Series over the Detroit Tigers.

Toronto Sun

Smoke. Possible Fire.

Royals Fan
07-10-2009, 11:45 AM
I like deal but I always love to have Rolen in Cincy.

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Its too good to be true. :rolleyes:

BigJohn
07-10-2009, 12:28 PM
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2009/07/10/10085181-sun.html

texasdave
07-10-2009, 12:30 PM
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2009/07/10/10085181-sun.html

This can't be true. Hal McCoy is never ever ever wrong. Stop posting this trash. :D

BLEEDS
07-10-2009, 12:44 PM
Hal is like the Minister of DisInformation for the Reds. Basically, anything he says you should believe the opposite.
Wasn't he the one who said Bailey for Dye was a done deal in the pre-season?!?!

As Hal added yesterday:
""
Just to cover the bases, though, a knowledgeable person close to the Blue Jays said that the Jays and Reds HAVE talked. The Jays are NOT interested in Encarnacion. They are most interested in minor league prospects.

When the Reds were in Toronto, GM Walt Jocketty chatted for a long time with Rolen near the batting cage, “Just to say hello.” Rolen played in St. Louis when Jocketty was there. There was no tampering involved, just chit-chat, but I’d be willing to bet all my Tommy Bahama shirts that Rolen mentioned, you know, just in passing, that he sure loves the midwest, being an Indiana boy and all.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/07/09/rumor_offcentral_no_the_cincin.html
""


So we could probably get Rolen for prospects, put EE in LF, and platoon Gomes/Bruce in RF.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Carin4Narron
07-10-2009, 12:56 PM
I have a interesting question if the Reds had scouts following Rolen, why do that if you aren't prepared to cover the rest of his contract?

Rockermann
07-10-2009, 01:04 PM
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2009/07/10/10085181-sun.html

But yet, no apologies to the poor original poster 'newbie' who broke the story here and was questioned about the validity. Life is so unfair.

GIDP
07-10-2009, 01:39 PM
I wouldnt mind Rolen, but Im not giving up Edwin for him.

Id give up Maloney and Valaika, but in terms of ML talent thats as far as I would go.

Reds are taking a huge risk in adding someone like Rolen. Its almost like the Griffey trade we did last year. I just dont see Rolen having as much value as some of you.

GIDP
07-10-2009, 01:42 PM
But yet, no apologies to the poor original poster 'newbie' who broke the story here and was questioned about the validity. Life is so unfair.

What he said happened didnt happen at all. So yea ...

Carin4Narron
07-10-2009, 01:46 PM
I will say sorry, but I listened to a replay of the blue jays broadcast nonthing was spoken of the Rolen deal.

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 02:30 PM
What is this EE is LF stuff>?

What makes you think he can play out there and actually be good.

And As of right now. I want Gomes playing everyday and EE to ride the pine.

Rockermann
07-10-2009, 02:48 PM
I will say sorry, but I listened to a replay of the blue jays broadcast nonthing was spoken of the Rolen deal.

If that's the case, it's indeed strange. Maybe the guy was telling a bit of 'white lie' to hide his sources? Dunno... Just found it interesting that this person knew something was up a good 24 hours before it was an 'official rumor'. :)

Pony Boy
07-10-2009, 03:06 PM
If we traded prospects for Rolen and moved Edwin to left, how quickly could he get up to speed? Did he ever play in the OF in the minors? Not that Dusty would ever do this but this lineup would be pretty decent:

1. Dickerson
2. Rolen
3. Votto
4. EE
5. Hernandez/Hanigan
6. Philips
7. Bruce
8. Janish/Hairston

We could even go lefty/righty all the way through and satisfy Dusty.

lidspinner
07-10-2009, 03:13 PM
What is this EE is LF stuff>?

What makes you think he can play out there and actually be good.

And As of right now. I want Gomes playing everyday and EE to ride the pine.

we dont see eye to eye on umpires but brother, we are on the same page here. Even with EE's good game last night, I want him on the pine. Why would anyone want EE to be in LF without having a good full spring training out there as practice? and howin the hell is he going to hit the cutoff?

BLEEDS
07-10-2009, 03:14 PM
What is this EE is LF stuff>?

What makes you think he can play out there and actually be good.

And As of right now. I want Gomes playing everyday and EE to ride the pine.

Well he can't play 3B very well. LF is about the easiest position to field, and where many people hide their weakest Defender.
It's not a big deal to move to the OF from the IF. Soriano did it recently, many others have in history, no biggy.

That we we can keep his potential .850+ OPS on the team, but get his black hole of 3B D at a minimum.

Gomes is a good platoon candidate, but he's not an everyday player. He can't hit RHP worth a lick, we have enough of those guys on the roster.
He's also currently OPS-in .717 in July after he's started to get more starts.

Don't get enamored with small sample size/career year stats, sometimes you end up with Jerry Hairston's and Ryan Freel's signed to overpriced long-term contracts.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

LouisvilleCARDS
07-10-2009, 03:36 PM
They better be paying at least half of his salary if we're going to do this. I really don't want to be on the hook for $10 mil next year, we've already had plenty of our share of bad contracts to go around, we don't need one more. I might do an Arroyo for Rolen trade though.

BLEEDS
07-10-2009, 03:44 PM
They better be paying at least half of his salary if we're going to do this. I really don't want to be on the hook for $10 mil next year, we've already had plenty of our share of bad contracts to go around, we don't need one more. I might do an Arroyo for Rolen trade though.

That would be a good idea - IFF it wasn't Toronto's main intent to trade these guys for salary relief purposes...

They want to DUMP SALARY and get prospects, not do even swaps of salary.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Basically if this doesnt happen its because toronta Doesnt want EE.

BLEEDS
07-10-2009, 03:58 PM
We could give them prospect instead of EE, in fact that is what they prefer. They don't want $2M/$4M salaries back, they want $415K salaries...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

LouisvilleCARDS
07-10-2009, 04:01 PM
That would be a good idea - IFF it wasn't Toronto's main intent to trade these guys for salary relief purposes...

They want to DUMP SALARY and get prospects, not do even swaps of salary.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Well there's absolutely no reason to do this trade then. He's got a hot bat now, sure, but he's going to revert back to what he's done lately.


2008 TOR 115 .262 .349 .431
2007 STL 112 .265 .331 .398
2006 STL 142 .296 .369 .518
2005 STL 56 .235 .323 .383

He's been injury plagued, and if we're on the hook for his salary the rest of this year and next AND trading a guy who's trade value is at the lowest it can possibly be, what are we gaining out of this? If they wanna pay half, fine, it may be worth a shot. No way should the Reds organization be taking on the full brunt of his salary though.

bgwilly31
07-10-2009, 04:55 PM
Yeah i dont care about getting rid of EE. But if they want a handful of our best prospect and us take on rolen salary than this is a completely different deal.

One that right now i dont really want to fool with.

GIDP
07-10-2009, 05:44 PM
Injuries dont matter to some people.