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View Full Version : 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets



Red in Chicago
07-10-2009, 06:44 PM
Chris Dickerson 9
Willy Taveras 8
Joey Votto 3
Brandon Phillips 4
Laynce Nix 7
Edwin Encarnacion 5
Jerry Hairston Jr. 6
Ryan Hanigan 2
Bronson Arroyo 1

vs. Fernando Nieve (3-2, 2.73 ERA)

nate
07-10-2009, 08:13 PM
Hi, hello and welcome! Chat is open.

dougdirt
07-10-2009, 08:14 PM
My brain hurts. Talking about Dickerson and Taveras "Neither one of them is tearing the world apart with their OBP.... but when Dickerson gets on with a hit he isn't the stolen base threat that Willy Taveras is" - Reds broadcasters about two players with these OBP's .286 and .369..... Yeah, those two are in the same stratosphere in terms of getting on base.

Falls City Beer
07-10-2009, 08:23 PM
How many dingers will Arroyo surrender to Cora tonight?

jojo
07-10-2009, 08:49 PM
Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug....Dickerson was just beat on steal attempt.

jojo
07-10-2009, 08:51 PM
How many dingers will Arroyo surrender to Cora tonight?

Arroyo is in a good environment and going against a depleted lineup....maybe he'll get healthy.

nate
07-10-2009, 09:02 PM
Votto is strong.

HR!

Tom Servo
07-10-2009, 09:03 PM
Votto homers! 1-0 Reds.

Raisor
07-10-2009, 09:09 PM
Hey..

I'm not a lumberjack, or a furtrader,
and I don't live in an igloo, eat blubber, or own a dogsled,
and I don't know Jimmy, Sally, or Susie from Canada,
although I'm sure they're really really nice.

I have a Prime Minister, not a President.
I speak English and French, not American,
and I pronounce it about, not aboot
I can proudly sew my country's flag on my backpack;
I believe in peacekeeping, not policing;
and that the beaver is a truly proud and noble animal

a tuque is a hat,
a chesterfield is a couch,
and it is pronounced zed, not zee, zed!

Canada is the second largest land-mass,
the first nation of hockey,
and the best part of North America!

MY NAME IS JOE(y Votto), AND I AM CANADIAN!

Thank you.
__________________

jojo
07-10-2009, 09:11 PM
My brain hurts. Talking about Dickerson and Taveras "Neither one of them is tearing the world apart with their OBP.... but when Dickerson gets on with a hit he isn't the stolen base threat that Willy Taveras is" - Reds broadcasters about two players with these OBP's .286 and .369..... Yeah, those two are in the same stratosphere in terms of getting on base.

Well John Fay actually argued that Phillips has similar power as Utley....

reds44
07-10-2009, 09:13 PM
Phillips has mastered the okie dokie play at 3rd base.

jojo
07-10-2009, 09:14 PM
If Wright drills Phillips in the back would Phillips have been out there?

CTA513
07-10-2009, 09:16 PM
Did they really not give the Mets an error on that play?
Gameday says that Phillips stole home instead of an error.

wally post
07-10-2009, 09:16 PM
yes, but only if the ump called it that way (interference). That was a lucky break for the good guys!

PuffyPig
07-10-2009, 09:17 PM
If Wright drills Phillips in the back would Phillips have been out there?


No, this isn't wiffle ball....

jojo
07-10-2009, 09:19 PM
No, this isn't wiffle ball....

Some of Arroyo's slow stuff moves like whiffle balls

jojo
07-10-2009, 09:23 PM
yes, but only if the ump called it that way (interference). That was a lucky break for the good guys!

Wright should've forced the issue....

jojo
07-10-2009, 09:24 PM
I'm calling this one for the Reds..... The Pete Rose in me actually wants to lay some down on a sweep....

jojo
07-10-2009, 09:29 PM
Taveras is baseball's equivalent of Newman....

reds44
07-10-2009, 09:30 PM
No, this isn't wiffle ball....
Hey oh

CTA513
07-10-2009, 09:33 PM
Another runner left on 3rd with less then 2 outs.

Raisor
07-10-2009, 09:35 PM
Taveras is baseball's equivalent of Newman....



http://www.stanthecaddy.com/images/the-package1.jpg

BCubb2003
07-10-2009, 09:36 PM
Who's this guy and what has he done with Arroyo?

Raisor
07-10-2009, 09:36 PM
Another runner left on 3rd with less then 2 outs.

those runs count double, right?

:cool:

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 09:43 PM
Nix homers.

reds44
07-10-2009, 09:43 PM
What an absolute bomb by Nix. 2nd deck.

reds44
07-10-2009, 09:44 PM
Edwin has been hitting better the last few days.

Doc. Scott
07-10-2009, 09:47 PM
Nice to see Arroyo getting some semblance of his groove back against David Wright & the AAA All-Star Band.

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 09:47 PM
Catching up, EE is on, Hernandez out, Hanigan walked intentionally and Arroyo at the plate.

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 09:48 PM
Arroyo out, going to the bottom of the sixth, Reds up 3-0.

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 09:54 PM
1st batter bunts for single, Nick Evans pinch hits for Nieves and Arroyo K's him. Sorry I don't have the Mets line up in front of me, so I don't remember the lead off batter.

reds44
07-10-2009, 09:57 PM
BA is destroying the Mets with his slider.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 09:58 PM
Bronson through 6 on only 78 pitches

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 09:58 PM
The only line up I'm hearing from the broadcast is Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder and Michael Jakcson. Last batter grounded out either from second to SS or vice versa. Sorry, they've been rambling and my mind has wondered off. End of six, still 3-0 good guys.

reds44
07-10-2009, 10:00 PM
Reds need to sweep this series and go into the break 1 over. Anything shy and I'll be dissapointed.

Strikes Out Looking
07-10-2009, 10:00 PM
I'd sure like to know why Bronson can pitch like this tonight and other times look like he's a hitting tee.

reds44
07-10-2009, 10:01 PM
I'd sure like to know why Bronson can pitch like this tonight and other times look like he's a hitting tee.
Look at the team he is playing, the ballpark he is pitching, and the fact he's really nto THAT bad.

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 10:01 PM
I'd sure like to know why Bronson can pitch like this tonight and other times look like he's a hitting tee.

Arroyo seems to pitch in cycles. He has these down periods and then he comes around and pitches very well. Isn't that what happened last year? I'm hoping this is the start of the up cycle.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:03 PM
The thing about Bronson is he has always been like this. Horrible for a series of starts and then he will look dominant in other starts.

jojo
07-10-2009, 10:04 PM
I'd sure like to know why Bronson can pitch like this tonight and other times look like he's a hitting tee.

Tonight is a glorified rehab start.

Strikes Out Looking
07-10-2009, 10:06 PM
Tonight is a glorified rehab start.

I prefer to think of it as a showcase before going to Toronto.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:08 PM
Votto singles and tries to strech it to a double and is thrown out. 3-0 Reds mid 7th

HokieRed
07-10-2009, 10:08 PM
Toronto is looking to take on another $11 million worth of salary?

PuffyPig
07-10-2009, 10:09 PM
I prefer to think of it as a showcase before going to Toronto.

If Arroyo was on Toronto they would be trying to trade him.

Why would they want him in a trade?

Strikes Out Looking
07-10-2009, 10:11 PM
If Arroyo was on Toronto they would be trying to trade him.

Why would they want him in a trade?

I'm allowed to dream--they'll need someone to pitch when Doc is in Cincy, plus Bronson and EdE together make less than Holliday and Rolen.

Raisor
07-10-2009, 10:13 PM
Votto singles and tries to strech it to a double and is thrown out. 3-0 Reds mid 7th

Joey Votto doesn't make outs. What really happened?

jojo
07-10-2009, 10:14 PM
I'm allowed to dream--they'll need someone to pitch when Doc is in Cincy, plus Bronson and EdE together make less than Holliday and Rolen.

Toronto would lose more for less!

PuffyPig
07-10-2009, 10:17 PM
I'm allowed to dream--they'll need someone to pitch when Doc is in Cincy, plus Bronson and EdE together make less than Holliday and Rolen.


You can trade Halladay without taking on one cent of contract.

The someone they will need to pitch in Toronto won't be making big bucks. It defeats the entire purpose of the trade.

Patrick Bateman
07-10-2009, 10:17 PM
I don't get it, but right from the beginning of this game Arroyo's stuff has been considerably better than what he has had since the first game of the season. Obviosuly it could be easy to say that in hinsight, but that's the impression that I've gotten since the 2nd inning on. He's just had much better late action, that has normally been coming out flat.

I don't know how to evaluate from Arroyo from here on in, because he is so different from the average pitcher. I do know that he was absolute trash for awhile, but at the same time he has been awfully good right from the beginning tonight, and that is at least something to conisder. That's better than last week where I saw no reason to do anything other than DL him.

Strikes Out Looking
07-10-2009, 10:20 PM
You can trade Halladay without taking on one cent of contract.

The someone they will need to pitch in Toronto won't be making big bucks. It defeats the entire purpose of the trade.

Shh! They read these things and we don't want to give anything away. Bronson is a very good and reliable fan and the Canadians will just love him. And the bottom line is, the Reds need to do whatever they can to make sure Doc doesn't go to St. Louis (of course, I wouldn't mind Doc Kremchek going to St. Louis and working on Pujols, he'll never be the same after that--but I digress).

CTA513
07-10-2009, 10:21 PM
Encarnacion gets called out for swinging and he didn't even swing.

reds44
07-10-2009, 10:21 PM
That was different.

reds44
07-10-2009, 10:21 PM
Encarnacion gets called out for swinging and he didn't even swing.
Ump said he foul tipped it.

Raisor
07-10-2009, 10:23 PM
Encarnacion gets called out for swinging and he didn't even swing.

http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/34f5dd9644470d16


It don't mean a thing, if it don't have that swing.

reds44
07-10-2009, 10:26 PM
How many pitches for Arroyo?

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:26 PM
Diving catch by Nix. Bronson through 8 on 101 pitches.

reds44
07-10-2009, 10:27 PM
Do you let him start the 9th?

Bob Borkowski
07-10-2009, 10:28 PM
Yep.

wally post
07-10-2009, 10:28 PM
Do you let him start the 9th?

Heck yeah!

Raisor
07-10-2009, 10:28 PM
Do you let him start the 9th?

bring in the closer.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:29 PM
Do you let him start the 9th?

I would he is having such an easy time tonight it shouldn't be a problem.

BCubb2003
07-10-2009, 10:29 PM
Do you let him start the 9th?

No. Trade him now.

Raisor
07-10-2009, 10:30 PM
Get BA out while he's had such a good start. Want to build on the success. Need to get him on a run for the trade deadline.

reds44
07-10-2009, 10:31 PM
BA hits for himself.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:31 PM
He is hitting so he will be out there for the 9th.

Bob Borkowski
07-10-2009, 10:31 PM
Going to the bottom of the 9th...still 3-0. Go get 'em Bronson.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:32 PM
Pagan, Cora and Murphy due up in the 9th.

wally post
07-10-2009, 10:33 PM
I'm not sure, but it seeems the Met announcers just said that Arroyo has 6 complete games with the Reds - and 3 of them are against the Mets. Tonight would be #4. Phillies, are you listening???

Raisor
07-10-2009, 10:33 PM
Pagan, Cora and Murphy due up in the 9th.

I wonder if Pagen ever hangs out with Miroslav Satan?

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:35 PM
Pagan grounds back to Arroyo. 1 out.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:37 PM
Cora also grounds back to Arroyo.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:37 PM
Murphy with a bloop single to right center.

Tony Cloninger
07-10-2009, 10:38 PM
Bronson Arroyo = RH version of Tom Browning...when he is on.

Arroyo in Philly....in that park? In the summer? :roll:

Ltlabner
07-10-2009, 10:40 PM
How many dingers will Arroyo surrender to Cora tonight?

http://www.forwardedtome.com/images/fail/ftm_kittenfail.jpg

reds44
07-10-2009, 10:40 PM
One of the easiest CGs I have ever seen.

Reds Fanatic
07-10-2009, 10:40 PM
Wright strikes out swinging. Reds win 3-0!! Great start by Arroyo. A 4 hit shutout. :beerme:

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 10:40 PM
Last batter strikes out - Reds win 3-0. Nice outing by Bronson.

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 10:41 PM
One of the easiest CGs I have ever seen.

Is that our 8th shutout this season? And Arroyo's 2nd CG. Masterful.

wally post
07-10-2009, 10:41 PM
no walks too. very smooth.

Tony Cloninger
07-10-2009, 10:43 PM
The Jon Lieber versus the Need to get out of Town Reds back in 2001? was pretty quick and painless also.

jojo
07-10-2009, 10:44 PM
So is Arroyo's night an example of what would happen if a completely resistible force met a completely movable object?

klw
07-10-2009, 10:47 PM
One of the easiest CGs I have ever seen.

Unfortunately this jumped to mind
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290612107

Patrick Bateman
07-10-2009, 10:47 PM
So is Arroyo's night an example of what would happen if a completely resistible force met a completely movable object?

I think in many cases that is compltely true, but in isolation, I think he did look far better than he did in previous outings.

Tom Servo
07-10-2009, 10:51 PM
Walt should be on the phone right now trying to drum up interest in Arroyo.

Patrick Bateman
07-10-2009, 10:54 PM
Walt should be on the phone right now trying to drum up interest in Arroyo.

Ya that would inconspicuous :lol:

CTA513
07-10-2009, 10:54 PM
Unfortunately this jumped to mind
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290612107

:barf:

redsmetz
07-10-2009, 10:59 PM
One of the easiest CGs I have ever seen.

If I may paraphrase a line from "When Harry Met Sally":

"You see? That is just like you, (Bronson). You (pitch a game) like that, and you make it impossible for me to hate you."

cumberlandreds
07-10-2009, 11:03 PM
No Met got past first base tonight. What a Jeckyl and Hyde act Arroyo is! After three horrid starts he comes back with as well a pitched game as anyone would like to see. Hopefully he should be the good Arroyo for a few starts before he goes back to being bad Arroyo by about Labor Day.

WVRedsFan
07-11-2009, 02:47 AM
No Met got past first base tonight. What a Jeckyl and Hyde act Arroyo is! After three horrid starts he comes back with as well a pitched game as anyone would like to see. Hopefully he should be the good Arroyo for a few starts before he goes back to being bad Arroyo by about Labor Day.

Bronson Arroyo is typical of the kind of player we have obained and then given extensions of their contract for above market value. Alex Gonzalez and Ryan Freel immediately come to mind, among either. Of course that happened in the past, but then we have to consider the Willy Taverases, Mike Lincolns, and Jerry Hairstons of the world who got the same kind of deals. It only goes to show how bankrupt the talent pool is for teams who refuse to spend money.

On the other hand, Bronson is the kind of pitcher who is (like you say) very good or very bad. That's the problem. Too many of those kind of players are on this roster, which may or may not be typical in MLB. Regardless, the staff is good enough with a decent offense. Unfortunately, we do not have a decent roster at present. My hope and prayer is that Walt is on the phone trying to correct things. If not, maybe in 2010.

Screwball
07-11-2009, 05:18 AM
http://www.forwardedtome.com/images/fail/ftm_kittenfail.jpg

:laugh:

Post of the night.

NJReds
07-11-2009, 09:23 AM
How bad are the Mets hitting right now?

I heard this comment from a Mets announcer last night:
"The Reds are an impressive hitting ballclub"

lollipopcurve
07-11-2009, 09:44 AM
Agree with AK that Arroyo's stuff was much crisper than it has been recently. True, the Mets are a weak hitting team, but there are a couple tough outs still in that lineup.

You have to acknowledge the possibility that Arroyo will continue to bounce back strong, as he did last year in the 2nd half. The guy is just very tough to figure.

jojo
07-11-2009, 10:23 AM
How bad are the Mets hitting right now?

I heard this comment from a Mets announcer last night:
"The Reds are an impressive hitting ballclub"

From an offensive standpoint last night was like watching two snails run the 50-yard dash.

Even though facing the flaccid lineup that the Mets ran out last night, Arroyo managed swinging strikes on just 5% of his pitches......

NJReds
07-11-2009, 12:01 PM
From an offensive standpoint last night was like watching two snails run the 50-yard dash.

Even though facing the flaccid lineup that the Mets ran out last night, Arroyo managed swinging strikes on just 5% of his pitches......

True. But it seemed like he started every hitter with strike 1 (and the Mets hitters kept taking strike 1) ... and he used that to his advantage.

lollipopcurve
07-11-2009, 12:06 PM
Even though facing the flaccid lineup that the Mets ran out last night, Arroyo managed swinging strikes on just 5% of his pitches......

So what?

traderumor
07-11-2009, 12:29 PM
From an offensive standpoint last night was like watching two snails run the 50-yard dash.

Even though facing the flaccid lineup that the Mets ran out last night, Arroyo managed swinging strikes on just 5% of his pitches......So, they took a lot of pitches and/or grounded out weakly to someone. Sometimes stats are just stats.

Falls City Beer
07-11-2009, 01:33 PM
So what?

He's done the same thing in virtually all of his starts; most success he's had this season has come via luck. And the fact that he faced a worse offense than the Reds' last night.

He's been terrible so far this season, and last night's performance didn't indicate in any way that he's turned any kind of corner.

Patrick Bateman
07-11-2009, 02:35 PM
He's done the same thing in virtually all of his starts; most success he's had this season has come via luck. And the fact that he faced a worse offense than the Reds' last night.

He's been terrible so far this season, and last night's performance didn't indicate in any way that he's turned any kind of corner.

That's likely true, but I'd guess that if he keeps punding the strikezone like he did last night, the swinging strikes will increase by virtue of having hitters increase their strikezone later in the count. I think his stuff was 'workable' last night, at the very least, and that's something I was honestly thinking about since the 2nd inning, so I don't think that opinion is too influenced by the results against the Mets line-up.

lollipopcurve
07-11-2009, 03:24 PM
It's no surprise to any of us who follow closely that Arroyo has had to evolve as a pitcher. He doesn't strike out as many as he did when he first came over from the AL. The league knows him better, he may have lost something off the fastball, and it sounds as if he hasn't been quite right physically due to the carpal tunnel. Last year, he innovated successfully with the two seam fastball and had a good 2nd half. We'll see if he's able to turn things around this year -- no one is denying it's been rocky, no one's saying last night's start means he's turned a corner. But it is definitely true he was sharper last night. Like AK, I could see it early on. Firmer fastball, better late break on the curve, a nice change (which I think is the new frontier for Arroyo). Most of all, very good command. It wasn't all about the weak hitting Mets.

Arroyo is not predictable start to start or month to month. Sitting back and proclaiming he stinks ignores what makes Arroyo Arroyo, what makes him interesting, and what makes games he pitches worth watching, in my opinion. If you believed he was wall to wall awful, why watch?

Falls City Beer
07-11-2009, 05:07 PM
It's no surprise to any of us who follow closely that Arroyo has had to evolve as a pitcher. He doesn't strike out as many as he did when he first came over from the AL. The league knows him better, he may have lost something off the fastball, and it sounds as if he hasn't been quite right physically due to the carpal tunnel. Last year, he innovated successfully with the two seam fastball and had a good 2nd half. We'll see if he's able to turn things around this year -- no one is denying it's been rocky, no one's saying last night's start means he's turned a corner. But it is definitely true he was sharper last night. Like AK, I could see it early on. Firmer fastball, better late break on the curve, a nice change (which I think is the new frontier for Arroyo). Most of all, very good command. It wasn't all about the weak hitting Mets.

Arroyo is not predictable start to start or month to month. Sitting back and proclaiming he stinks ignores what makes Arroyo Arroyo, what makes him interesting, and what makes games he pitches worth watching, in my opinion. If you believed he was wall to wall awful, why watch?


I didn't say Arroyo wasn't interesting or that he hasn't been good before; I said he's stunk this season. Pick a metric, go on anecdotal evidence: he's stunk.