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View Full Version : What a trainwreck of a week...



BluegrassRedleg
07-12-2009, 06:05 PM
Let's face it. When you lose by 3 touchdowns and get worked by the Metropolitans, you've got a problem. This NY team was an absolute disgrace heading into the series, and they've gotten healthy rather quickly against the hapless Reds.

My hopes are now starting to shift from "Jockerty" waking from his slumber and helping this team out to praying they don't deal away young talent as part of deals that won't make a difference anyway.

We're in 5th place, behind the Astros, for God's sake. Just think about that for a moment. We're behind a club that knows it has no chance in hell at winning the division.

At this point, I'm not sure who I should be mad at. Dusty? The front office? The players? Probably all of the above, although thoughts are creeping into my head that I wish they could lose enough in the second half to get Toothpick out of Dodge. Note before you beat me up over that one: I'd never root for this team to lose. I'm going to be pulling for them as hard as I can next Thursday when they open the second half against the Brewers, but it almost feels like we need it torn down from the top before we can build it back up. I want someone in the manager's position who inspires the team and instills a sense of pride and swagger.

I'm sick of totally unproductive players getting unjustified playing time.

I'm sick of bone-headed plays and mental lapses in the field.

I'm sick of the lack of approach at the plate and (apparent) lack of understanding for what certain hitting situations call for -- especially with guys at third and less than two outs.

I'm sick of seeing opponents dig in and take batting practice without ever getting brushed back.

And most of all, I'm sick of being embarrassed to wear my Reds lid every year around this time. It's been 10 freakin' years since we had anything to feel good about. I thought this was going to be a year where, even if we did not make the playoffs, we were going to be in a division race. After this last week, I can't see any way possible that can happen.

Thanks for letting me vent. :censored:

mrherd05
07-12-2009, 06:10 PM
Yet...we are 4.5 back in mid July. With injury, after injury, after injury.

BluegrassRedleg
07-12-2009, 06:15 PM
Yet...we are 4.5 back in mid July. With injury, after injury, after injury.

That's the same mentality the FO has taken for not making a deal. It's the wrong approach. That 4.5 doesn't tell you how poorly they're playing, not to mention the pitching that helped them hang around is going south in a hurry.

5th place. Behind 3 legit contenders and 1 horrible team.

mrherd05
07-12-2009, 06:17 PM
Right, but that pitching is due to get back on the horse and get us even more back into the race.

The funny thing I hear on boards such as this and Reds.com, is the trades that people want to make...they want moves made but they dont want to trade any prospects....they would rather trade any thing BUT prospects. That is why you develop prospects.

I want to make a move...I think...but what move is it. What move can be made to make this team 4.5 games better.

My personal opinion is that we just need to get healthy and catch some breaks on the field.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-12-2009, 06:19 PM
I don't understand when guys like Dickerson and Hanigan have done NOTHING but rake at the plate, they're constantly riding the pine. That has got to change. Now with Bruce injured, looks like Dickerson will finally get some PT, but its sad it takes an injury to come to that conclusion when Taveras has been atrocious at the plate.

BluegrassRedleg
07-12-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't mind trading prospects. I actually encourage it, especially since the Reds really haven't developed a star in an eternity. I just don't want to see them do it if it's for Johnny Mediochre who isn't going to help put us over the hump anyway.

I'd LOVE to see an aggressive, proactive move where the Reds land a couple of legit difference-makers that completely shakes this team and the division up. Right now, though, that seems like wishful thinking.

mrherd05
07-12-2009, 06:22 PM
Dickerson has been raking at the plate? Hanigan? Yes Hanigan does well in situations like today, but he has what 9 RBI's on the year. Who do you want him to play over...Hernandez??? who has quadrule the RBI's in just a little over double the plate appearances, or move Ramon to 1st and bench Votto for Hanigan..which do you want?

LouisvilleCARDS
07-12-2009, 06:27 PM
Dickerson has been raking at the plate? Hanigan? Yes Hanigan does well in situations like today, but he has what 9 RBI's on the year. Who do you want him to play over...Hernandez??? who has quadrule the RBI's in just a little over double the plate appearances, or move Ramon to 1st and bench Votto for Hanigan..which do you want?

What the hell do RBI's matter? Because Hernandez has played more this year, has had more opportunities to bat with RISP makes him better?

Hanigan is batting .338 with a .428 OBP
Hernandez is batting .253 with a .332 OBP

Obviously its apparent who the better batter is at the plate.

mrherd05
07-12-2009, 06:30 PM
Hitting with RISP yet not driving them in.

I also LOVE the focus on OBS with Hanigan, yet it was not important last year with Dunn.

Too many Marty B clones on here for my liking.

I guess it is time to leave and go elsewhere, nice job running off Reds fans who get pissed off when he reads other "fans" slamming on everything about the team.

texasdave
07-12-2009, 06:31 PM
We all need a little break. Cya Thursday.

BluegrassRedleg
07-12-2009, 06:32 PM
Dickerson has been raking at the plate? Hanigan? Yes Hanigan does well in situations like today, but he has what 9 RBI's on the year. Who do you want him to play over...Hernandez??? who has quadrule the RBI's in just a little over double the plate appearances, or move Ramon to 1st and bench Votto for Hanigan..which do you want?

Comparing Hernandez & Hanigan's RBI totals really doesn't hold water. Totally different scenarios, both in terms of total ABs and where they hit in the order.

I actually like Hernandez. I'd like to see more of an even split between those two, with Hernandez getting some 1B time. I don't know if it's viable, but Votto should be getting some work in LF every now and then. It gives the Reds a better lineup, and will be something that needs addressed in the future when Alonso is ready.

GIDP
07-12-2009, 06:33 PM
Hitting with RISP yet not driving them in.

I also LOVE the focus on OBS with Hanigan, yet it was not important last year with Dunn.

Too many Marty B clones on here for my liking.

I guess it is time to leave and go elsewhere, nice job running off Reds fans who get pissed off when he reads other "fans" slamming on everything about the team.

what is OBS?

mrherd05
07-12-2009, 06:35 PM
OBP...excuse me.

GIDP
07-12-2009, 06:36 PM
So is OBP imporant to you or not? You certainly love Taveras and his complete lack of OBP, slugging, and BA. I guess you feel the same way about every other player in the world as well.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-12-2009, 06:39 PM
Hitting with RISP yet not driving them in.

I also LOVE the focus on OBS with Hanigan, yet it was not important last year with Dunn.

Too many Marty B clones on here for my liking.

I guess it is time to leave and go elsewhere, nice job running off Reds fans who get pissed off when he reads other "fans" slamming on everything about the team.

Goodbye then, if you get upset that fans are sick of what - possibly the 8th straight losing season and want to see change? But apparently your answer is to keep everything that hasn't worked and has us 3 games under .500 the same, as if it will magically become better. I'm sorry, I don't buy into that "Baker-metric" philosophy.

Actually with that philosophy, we're probably going to be even deeper into a hole after the all star break. Considering the run differential the team has, we're fairly lucky to be only 4.5 out of first. But I guess its this front office's philosophy to make a move a day late and a dollar short.

mrherd05
07-12-2009, 06:42 PM
How is it luck that we are only 4.5 games back. We have won when we needed to win to stick in this thing.

Griffey012
07-12-2009, 06:42 PM
That's the same mentality the FO has taken for not making a deal. It's the wrong approach. That 4.5 doesn't tell you how poorly they're playing, not to mention the pitching that helped them hang around is going south in a hurry.

5th place. Behind 3 legit contenders and 1 horrible team.

Who are the 3 legit contenders? Every team in contention has plenty of blemishes. And the cubs have played like absolute crap all around, they just have a boatload more talent and money then we were giving to work with. At least we are full of headcases and players playing well below their potential.

BluegrassRedleg
07-12-2009, 07:03 PM
Who are the 3 legit contenders? Every team in contention has plenty of blemishes. And the cubs have played like absolute crap all around, they just have a boatload more talent and money then we were giving to work with. At least we are full of headcases and players playing well below their potential.

The Cards, Cubs and Brewers all have legitimate pieces to win the division and compete against other winners in a short series, despite their obvious blemishes. The Reds don't have the studs and have many more flaws. I think that's painfully obvious right now.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-12-2009, 07:29 PM
How is it luck that we are only 4.5 games back. We have won when we needed to win to stick in this thing.

First off:

- We're lucky to be that close because we have a negative 49 run differential. That's good for 3rd worst in the NL, only better than the Nats and Padres.

- We're now 3 games under .500. We haven't been that much below .500 all year

- We're 4.5 games back in whats been a weak division thus far, STL has the worst record among all division leaders. And by the way, we have 4 teams ahead of us right now.


You think that division winner record is going to hold up over the course of the year and a team will finish only 6 games above .500 at 84-78 to win the division? Not bloody likely. One of at least the Cards, Cubs, or Brew Crew are going to turn it on, this division isn't sending an 84 win team to the playoffs.

And even if that was enough to win the division, that means the Reds would have to finish 9 games above .500 with a 42-33 record. Right now we're 42-45. In other words, we have to win the same amount of games - with 12 LESS losses - and the division leader somehow doing no better than 84 wins.

And all this you expect to do with the same exact lineup and hoping to work that's got us into this mess in the first place. I don't get how you can seriously expect this to happen unless there are some big moves before the trade deadline and Dusty suddenly knows how to make a reasonable lineup.

Griffey012
07-12-2009, 08:55 PM
The Cards, Cubs and Brewers all have legitimate pieces to win the division and compete against other winners in a short series, despite their obvious blemishes. The Reds don't have the studs and have many more flaws. I think that's painfully obvious right now.

I am by no means saying we are going to win the thing. But just look at the teams here.

Cardinals - are playing about as well as they are capable of. And really don't have any big pieces outside of Pujols and LaRussa.

Cubs - headcases, aging vets, and 2 high priced under achieving OF'ers, and a manager with an ego bigger than Bradley's.

Brewers - I could see them turning it on and think up and down they have the best team in the division, and will most likely add another big piece.

Houston - could also turn it on if they add a starter or 2, the offense is there, half of the starting pitching is there, and the pen is solid with Valverde back.

There is really not a runaway team here, we dont have anyone near the caliber of the dodgers, red sox, yankees, etc in the division. Do we have the firepower to take it? Not likely, could we somehow get hot a pull it out, sure...so why not hope for it.

BluegrassRedleg
07-12-2009, 09:36 PM
I am by no means saying we are going to win the thing. But just look at the teams here.

Cardinals - are playing about as well as they are capable of. And really don't have any big pieces outside of Pujols and LaRussa.

Cubs - headcases, aging vets, and 2 high priced under achieving OF'ers, and a manager with an ego bigger than Bradley's.

Brewers - I could see them turning it on and think up and down they have the best team in the division, and will most likely add another big piece.

Houston - could also turn it on if they add a starter or 2, the offense is there, half of the starting pitching is there, and the pen is solid with Valverde back.

There is really not a runaway team here, we dont have anyone near the caliber of the dodgers, red sox, yankees, etc in the division. Do we have the firepower to take it? Not likely, could we somehow get hot a pull it out, sure...so why not hope for it.


The Cards have Chris Carpenter and the No. 4 ERA in all of baseball. They're a long way from being Albert Pujols and a bunch of chumps. Even though their lineup isn't going to make anyone quiver beyond No. 5, they have several guys that handle themselves better at the plate than the Reds. Outside of Phillips and maybe the catching spot, there may not be another position player where you'd take the CIN guy over the STL guy.

As for the Cubs, they've weathered the storm or a horrible start. It will be interesting to see if they can turn it on in the second half. If they do, they have the balance offensively and pitching-wise to leave this division in the dust.

I don't think the Brewers will ever have enough pitching to win it, but they have some guys who can swing the bats.

So where does that leave the Reds? What do we have? I thought we had pitching... for a while. Now, I'm not so sure.

Griffey012
07-12-2009, 09:41 PM
The Cards have Chris Carpenter and the No. 4 ERA in all of baseball. They're a long way from being Albert Pujols and a bunch of chumps. Even though their lineup isn't going to make anyone quiver beyond No. 5, they have several guys that handle themselves better at the plate than the Reds. Outside of Phillips and maybe the catching spot, there may not be another position player where you'd take the CIN guy over the STL guy.

As for the Cubs, they've weathered the storm or a horrible start. It will be interesting to see if they can turn it on in the second half. If they do, they have the balance offensively and pitching-wise to leave this division in the dust.

I don't think the Brewers will ever have enough pitching to win it, but they have some guys who can swing the bats.

So where does that leave the Reds? What do we have? I thought we had pitching... for a while. Now, I'm not so sure.

It must be nice to have Rasmus in the lineup, instead of sitting in AAA such as Heisey and Stubbs.

I agree with a lot of your assessment, but like I said with the Cards, they don't really have any room to improve. And the Brewers will likely get another SP to shore up the rotation a bit. Either way there are a lot of ifs for any team in the division, making there no runaway teams, and we could easily see an 82-80 team take the divison.

BluegrassRedleg
07-12-2009, 09:50 PM
It must be nice to have Rasmus in the lineup, instead of sitting in AAA such as Heisey and Stubbs.

I agree with a lot of your assessment, but like I said with the Cards, they don't really have any room to improve. And the Brewers will likely get another SP to shore up the rotation a bit. Either way there are a lot of ifs for any team in the division, making there no runaway teams, and we could easily see an 82-80 team take the divison.

I think one thing we can count on is whoever doesn't win this division will really be kicking themselves.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-26-2009, 06:38 PM
How is it luck that we are only 4.5 games back. We have won when we needed to win to stick in this thing.

Annnnnd, thats why it was luck we were so close. Welcome to two weeks later.

edogg07
07-26-2009, 06:46 PM
Hopefully the dickerson injury finally means heisley or stubbs get a chance

GIDP
07-26-2009, 06:50 PM
Hopefully the dickerson injury finally means heisley or stubbs get a chance

New starting OF, Nix, Taveras, Gomes and some times Hairston. With obviously Gonzalez playing SS every day.

How awesome is that line up looking?

edogg07
07-26-2009, 06:55 PM
Your Right how does a major league have not one above average outfielder on the MLB roster. I mean they one guy start the whole season Jay Bruce you could remotley start on a good team.

mlh1981
07-26-2009, 07:13 PM
Ever since Albert Pujols connected on a David Weathers offering for a grand slam on July 3rd in what not only a pivotal game, but a pivotal series for the Reds, the ship has been sinking.

Fullboat
07-26-2009, 07:15 PM
It's really a shame for Dickerson.the guy really tries and except for like 5 games has been playing
out of position all year.

texasdave
07-27-2009, 11:26 AM
Your Right how does a major league have not one above average outfielder on the MLB roster. I mean they one guy start the whole season Jay Bruce you could remotley start on a good team.

It seems like just yesterday the Reds had too many outfielders. This worm turned in a hurry.