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View Full Version : Aaron Harang 2009 Total Losses



NastyBoy
07-13-2009, 04:50 PM
So how many loses will Aaron Harang have this year? Will he equal or surpass his 2008 career best of 17? He has already surpassed Eric Milton's total losses in his first and second seasons.

I think he is pitching much better than he did last year, but the guy is not getting paid 14 big ones to lead the league in losses two years in a row.

I think he goes 6-6 after the all-star break... losing 15 games.

FlyerFanatic
07-13-2009, 06:07 PM
it doesnt help that he gets zero run support when he pitches. he usually throws solid, eats up innings, if i were him i'd prob want out.

MJA
07-13-2009, 06:48 PM
Yea, win-loss might be one of the most overrated stats in baseball. All you can ask your pitcher to do is have a good ERA, WHIP, BB to K's and a good batting average against righties/lefties. What the team does with that offensively should not reflect on the pitcher nearly as much as it does now.

Just look at the league leaders in wins over in the AL. Wakefield and Beckett both have 11 wins, but does anyone think they are having a better season than Greinke, who has 10?

Kevin Slowey–best pithcer name ever–has 10 wins, 3 losses and a 4.86 ERA, is he pitching better than Felix Hernandez, who has 9 wins, 3 losses, and a 2.53 ERA.

OesterPoster
07-13-2009, 08:23 PM
Depends if he's playing for the Reds. ;)

Kingspoint
07-13-2009, 09:45 PM
it doesnt help that he gets zero run support when he pitches. he usually throws solid, eats up innings, if i were him i'd prob want out.

He repeatedly throws pitches right down the middle where players blast them for Doubles, Triples and Homeruns. That's what his main problem is. He's too arrogant. He doesn't think that his pitches will get lit up, yet he continues to serve up "sweet" pitches to hitters.

If he got his head on straight, he'd be a dominant pitcher. But, there's something wrong with his psyche.

Griffey012
07-13-2009, 10:00 PM
Yea, win-loss might be one of the most overrated stats in baseball. All you can ask your pitcher to do is have a good ERA, WHIP, BB to K's and a good batting average against righties/lefties. What the team does with that offensively should not reflect on the pitcher nearly as much as it does now.

Just look at the league leaders in wins over in the AL. Wakefield and Beckett both have 11 wins, but does anyone think they are having a better season than Greinke, who has 10?

Kevin Slowey–best pithcer name ever–has 10 wins, 3 losses and a 4.86 ERA, is he pitching better than Felix Hernandez, who has 9 wins, 3 losses, and a 2.53 ERA.

I wouldn't say most overrated, it is overrated yes. There are some pitchers that just carry the ability to bear down when they get a lead and really shut the door. I dont know if Harang, has that...but his loss total is definitely a poor reflection of his pitching ability.

Kingspoint
07-13-2009, 10:04 PM
Yea, win-loss might be one of the most overrated stats in baseball. All you can ask your pitcher to do is have a good ERA, WHIP, BB to K's and a good batting average against righties/lefties. What the team does with that offensively should not reflect on the pitcher nearly as much as it does now.

Just look at the league leaders in wins over in the AL. Wakefield and Beckett both have 11 wins, but does anyone think they are having a better season than Greinke, who has 10?

Kevin Slowey–best pithcer name ever–has 10 wins, 3 losses and a 4.86 ERA, is he pitching better than Felix Hernandez, who has 9 wins, 3 losses, and a 2.53 ERA.

Bill James found that Wins and Losses for a pitcher only have bearing over an entire career, not for any one season or even for any stretch of seasons. That was after studying every Major League pitcher who had played from the beginning through the time he finished that study, which was about 1980, give or take 4 seasons.

GIDP
07-13-2009, 10:49 PM
Wins have nothing to do with the pitcher. Nolan Ryan once went 8-16 with a 2.76 ERA.

Redeye fly
07-14-2009, 07:28 AM
He repeatedly throws pitches right down the middle where players blast them for Doubles, Triples and Homeruns. That's what his main problem is. He's too arrogant. He doesn't think that his pitches will get lit up, yet he continues to serve up "sweet" pitches to hitters.

If he got his head on straight, he'd be a dominant pitcher. But, there's something wrong with his psyche.

I don't see that at all. Based on the type of guy he seems to be, I would imagine Aaron would be the first to tell you he doesn't have lights out stuff. It's a fair bit better than Arroyo's, but he's hardly dominant in terms of physical ability, and I'm pretty sure he knows it.

rchurchward
07-14-2009, 10:57 AM
I think he ends up around 14.

NastyBoy
07-14-2009, 01:12 PM
Yea, win-loss might be one of the most overrated stats in baseball. All you can ask your pitcher to do is have a good ERA, WHIP, BB to K's and a good batting average against righties/lefties. What the team does with that offensively should not reflect on the pitcher nearly as much as it does now.

Just look at the league leaders in wins over in the AL. Wakefield and Beckett both have 11 wins, but does anyone think they are having a better season than Greinke, who has 10?

Kevin Slowey–best pithcer name ever–has 10 wins, 3 losses and a 4.86 ERA, is he pitching better than Felix Hernandez, who has 9 wins, 3 losses, and a 2.53 ERA.

You are right... Win-Loss is only one stat... so which of those other categories do you think Harang is doing well ? I know he is leading the league in hits... which would be great if he was a batter.

mac624
07-14-2009, 01:37 PM
He's really the guy I want to see traded, because I think a good pitching coach, not named Dick Pole, will straighten him out pretty quickly. If you look back at what Aaron did a couple of years ago, to today, his mechanics are different. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I don't know who changed them, but he's been a completely different pitcher since he changed. Lots of people say it was the relief appearance that caused his issues last year, but really, his mechanics changed, and if you go back and look at the tape, he's not been the same.

However, with that said, this is the guy I use to get my shortstop, a position that absolutely has to be upgraded if the Reds are even remotely serious about contending. The SS needs to be able to give the Reds 2+ years. Hairston and Janish are good bench guys, but they are not, I repeat, NOT starter material.

Anyway, Harang still has good tread left on the tires, he can eat you innings, and he's a good #2/#3 guy. Surely he can go to a contender for a SS.

Kingspoint
07-14-2009, 09:06 PM
Anyway, Harang still has good tread left on the tires, he can eat you innings, and he's a good #2/#3 guy. Surely he can go to a contender for a SS.

If he had to go, I would want a SS in return, also.

But, I'd rather keep him and trade Arroyo....trade Arroyo for anything.

I'd like to have Harang around to be the leader of the pitching staff next season.

NastyBoy
07-19-2009, 11:19 AM
Another decent start with exception of the 4th inning, 4 runs 3 earned, but the unearned run was on a Harang error, so I still put that run on him. No run support despite several opportunities. Record slips to 5-10, 16 loses seem within reach... that is ofcourse if he is not traded before end of the month.

Krawhitham
07-19-2009, 03:45 PM
it doesnt help that he gets zero run support when he pitches. he usually throws solid, eats up innings, if i were him i'd prob want out.

5+ ERA over last ten starts

Krawhitham
07-19-2009, 03:48 PM
Wins have nothing to do with the pitcher. Nolan Ryan once went 8-16 with a 2.76 ERA.

He also had 6 seasons where he had more complete games than wins

NastyBoy
07-24-2009, 05:52 PM
Record slips to 5-11.

NastyBoy
07-29-2009, 11:44 PM
Harang has a not so good start... the Reds "ace's" record slips to 5-12 and leads the league in loses.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-30-2009, 12:30 AM
I know its completely dependent on run support for him to get wins, but this is just ridiculous how long this has gone on. As of late, he has no one to blame but himself:

Harangs last 8 games:
47.2 IP
32 ER's
6.04 ERA
0-6 record (lost last 4 starts)

The guy has definitely lost it.

Mutaman
07-30-2009, 12:47 AM
Its not lack of support, the pitching coach, poor defense, or bad luck. Its Aaron Harang. The guy has been a major disappointment and the main reason why this team has performed so poorly over the last two years. I really thought this guy was going to be a top pitcher at one time, and I don't understand why fans continue to cut him so much slack. A major disappointment .

GIDP
07-30-2009, 01:02 AM
For a guy who has been so terrible hes still better than league average.

Mutaman
07-30-2009, 01:09 AM
For a guy who has been so terrible hes still better than league average.

Even if we accept this statement as true, i'm not sure we're paying $14 million per for "better than the league average".

GIDP
07-30-2009, 01:23 AM
Even if we accept this statement as true, i'm not sure we're paying $14 million per for "better than the league average".

The statement is true, and I agree he needs to perform better for the cash.

BTW this is his contract status

# 4 years/$36.5M (2007-10), plus 2011 club option

* re-signed by Cincinnati 2/07 (avoided arbitration, $5.5M-$4.25M)
* 07:$4.25M, 08:$6.75M, 09:$11M, 10:$12.5M, 11:$12.75M ($2M buyout)
* 2011 option increases to $13M with 210 IP in 2010
* if traded, 2011 option becomes mutual option at $14M ($2.5M buyout)

NastyBoy
08-03-2009, 10:13 PM
Harang pitches well tonight, but loses again. Records slips to 5-13. Things are pretty bad when your number five can not stop the losing streak

NastyBoy
08-10-2009, 11:08 AM
Harang finally gets the monkey off his back and wins his first game since May and he beats a pretty good pitcher Matt Cain. Hopefully this is just the start of a strong finish to the season.

Record improves to 6-13.

dweston
08-10-2009, 07:08 PM
Two good starts in a row for Aaron, and his fastball was clocked in the low 90s on Sunday. Maybe the start of a good run, or is making himself more appealing to a contender.

NastyBoy
08-15-2009, 12:47 PM
Another good outing from Harang, but 2 long balls and no run support results in another lose.

Record slips to 6-14. My prediction of 15 loses is in serious jeopardy. My poll only goes to 17 which was his total loses last year... which he might exceed if things continue.

I remember Jeff Russell lost 18 in 1984 and Bruce Berenyi lost 18 in 1982, Sammy Ellis lost 19 in 1966.

Who is the last reds pitcher to lose 20 games?