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View Full Version : Vote: Stubbs or Heisey



Will M
07-14-2009, 07:50 PM
OK guys time to vote!

Will M
07-14-2009, 07:57 PM
I voted to keep Heisey and trade Stubbs. i like Heisey's power potential.
both of these guys are just prospects. there is no guarantee either will have a good major league career. however i can imagine a 'near worst case scenario' of a Heisey/Dickerson platoon in CF flanked by Bruce in RF and a stud hitter in LF.

keeping both isn't a good option as we have holes elsewhere and a stopgap left fielder (until Frazier or Alonso is ready) shouldn't be too hard to find.

Redhook
07-14-2009, 08:19 PM
I haven't seen either play and really have no clue who will be better in the majors. But I do believe one should be traded for an area of need and Stubbs is the bigger name of the two which could net a bigger return.

Grande Donkey
07-14-2009, 08:26 PM
I like both. I think both will be above average CFers, just in completely different ways.

mth123
07-14-2009, 08:33 PM
As I've said multiple times in this debate, I like Home Runs. Keep Heisey and trade Stubbs before everyone realizes he's Ken Berry.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Ken-Berry.shtml

GIDP
07-14-2009, 10:00 PM
Its such a hard thing to commit to. I almost would rather them keep both, and play it safe in case one is a bust, rather to trade one and end up picking the wrong one.

If I had to pick I'd go with Heisey because I think the bat is more legit, and his D is good enough from all accounts.

I'd still keep both of them just to play it safe.

dougdirt
07-14-2009, 11:25 PM
I am in no rush to do anything with either of them. The Reds obviously aren't going to play either one in CF right now so there is no need to trade someone.

Will M
07-14-2009, 11:30 PM
I am in no rush to do anything with either of them. The Reds obviously aren't going to play either one in CF right now so there is no need to trade someone.

think ahead to 2010 then. the Reds have decisions to make in the outfield.

dougdirt
07-14-2009, 11:32 PM
think ahead to 2010 then. the Reds have decisions to make in the outfield.

Willy Taveras will be playing CF in 2010.

Will M
07-14-2009, 11:49 PM
Willy Taveras will be playing CF in 2010.

are you being serious?

about half the games in the last month i haven't watched after seeing his name atop the lineup. he is just abyssmally terrible and Dusty not only starts him but bats him 1rst or 2nd.

i had quit watching the Reds at all during the last few years of Lindner's ownership. the guy just didn't know what he was doing. i got interested again when the team got a new owner. if the Reds brass plays Taveras in 2010 over Dickerson, Stubbs & Heisey then i will quit watching the team again. it would show they have absolutely no clue what they are doing and that the Reds have no chance to win until Bob C is gone. whats the point in watching a team that has no chance to win either now or in the future?

GIDP
07-14-2009, 11:54 PM
To be fair hes been getting less playing time.

Nasty_Boy
07-15-2009, 12:54 AM
Willy Taveras will be playing CF in 2010.

I agree... and it makes me sick! They will give him until June before they cut bait.

dougdirt
07-15-2009, 01:05 AM
are you being serious?

about half the games in the last month i haven't watched after seeing his name atop the lineup. he is just abyssmally terrible and Dusty not only starts him but bats him 1rst or 2nd.

i had quit watching the Reds at all during the last few years of Lindner's ownership. the guy just didn't know what he was doing. i got interested again when the team got a new owner. if the Reds brass plays Taveras in 2010 over Dickerson, Stubbs & Heisey then i will quit watching the team again. it would show they have absolutely no clue what they are doing and that the Reds have no chance to win until Bob C is gone. whats the point in watching a team that has no chance to win either now or in the future?

Be ready to quit watching then. I would be more surprised if Willy is on the bench than if he is starting. Sad but true story of the Cincinnati Reds.

13 in hall
07-15-2009, 01:26 AM
I voted keep them both. I'm with Doug why rush it this team is going nowhere fast. This is what I don't get why are they such idiots! Reds management I mean this is the perfect time for audition time for both Stubbs or Heisey. Bruce is lost for 6-8 weeks so bring them both up and see what it is that you may have or not have. I could care less if they loose value by exposing them. This team cannot afford to make a huge mistake and trade the wrong guy. I mean look at the first round of the 2006 draft many of those guys are making solid contrabutions if not having already had their cup of coffee so to speak. In my opinion I think they will both be solid major league players just in different ways. The dream situation would be to keep them both hit one and two in the order Joey plays third Yonder at first but hey I'm a red fan so all seems like a dream no?

cincyinco
07-15-2009, 01:41 AM
I'm curious to find out if heisey has enough pop to play left.. If the power is for real, why not? Keep em both, no rush yet.

Plus Plus
07-15-2009, 02:03 AM
Could Heisey become a Cincinnati version of Jason Werth? Is there enough talent in the tank to get him to that level?

icehole3
07-15-2009, 04:35 AM
I agree with Doug Willie T starts 2010 and bats leadoff. I wouldnt trade either

redsfandan
07-15-2009, 05:09 AM
keeping both isn't a good option as we have holes elsewhere and a stopgap left fielder (until Frazier or Alonso is ready) shouldn't be too hard to find.
I don't agree. We don't need to trade one at this point. Besides we don't even know if trading one would fill one of those holes anyway. For every trade there has to be a match. We just need to pickup a FA for left. Every other spot can be filled internally unless a really good offer comes our way.

mth123
07-15-2009, 06:08 AM
I don't agree. We don't need to trade one at this point. Besides we don't even know if trading one would fill one of those holes anyway. For every trade there has to be a match. We just need to pickup a FA for left. Every other spot can be filled internally unless a really good offer comes our way.

We don't need to trade one to trade one, but this team has other problems that do need to be addressed in the trade market. There just aren't guys in the pipeline for certain areas and the team is going to need to aquire some one. They can't really afford free agents that can help much, so if there is no trade from areas of depth, how does the team go about acquiring what it needs?

Stubbs/Heisey along with Valaika/Frazier, Francisco/Soto and a few of the young pitchers are the depth areas that this team needs to draw on to improve the major league team.

bucksfan2
07-15-2009, 08:47 AM
Could Heisey become a Cincinnati version of Jason Werth? Is there enough talent in the tank to get him to that level?

I wonder if he could be a Victorino type player? A guy who has sneaky power, is able to play all 3 outfield positions, hit in the 2 hole, and be a very valuable player.

If Stubbs is truely a great defender, Heisey can hit, and Dickerson can do what he is doing, they may not have an outfield with a whole lot of pop, but they will have an outfield that gets on base and will catch anything in sight. If the Reds are able to be a plus bat at 3b I would be quite content running 2 of Dickerson, Stubbs, and Heisey out there every day.

IMO too much is made over whether a player has a powerful enough bat for a certain position. Especially in GABP, if a player has some pop in his bat he will hit 20+ HRs a season. IMO Heisey should have enough pop to play LF.

Scrap Irony
07-15-2009, 10:26 AM
Two rookies (plus the addition of Frazier, wherever and whenever he sticks in the Queen City) in the OF? Seems like a lot to ask. I don't see them breaking in two or three OFers with no experience. (Though I think both are good enough to be positives on the team.)

membengal
07-15-2009, 10:46 AM
Two rookies (plus the addition of Frazier, wherever and whenever he sticks in the Queen City) in the OF? Seems like a lot to ask. I don't see them breaking in two or three OFers with no experience. (Though I think both are good enough to be positives on the team.)

I have fonder memories than most, I guess, of the Kal Daniels/Paul O'Neill/Tracy Jones influx that happened just after Eric Davis established himself. Of all the positions on the diamond to carry and be successful with youngsters, OF is, in my opinion, the easier place to break them in and have success.

Benihana
07-15-2009, 10:58 AM
I do not think Taveras will be the starting CF in 2010. I have confidence in the Reds' leadership to admit their mistake eventually. By this time next year, WT will either be on the bench or with another team. I hope they don't let me down.

Stubbs is Stillwell. Heisey is looking more and more like Larkin. Heisey's performance this year has caused me to change my perspective. Keep Heisey, trade Stubbs.

GIDP
07-15-2009, 12:11 PM
Marlins some how continuously play all these young cheap guys. Leadership can be bought for cheap.

Mario-Rijo
07-15-2009, 12:12 PM
If one must be dealt my pick would be Stubbs to go. That said he's probably the only true CF we have so keeping them both doesn't bother me either but I do think trading him now would be wise in the long run, assuming we get back something of substance.

mace
07-15-2009, 02:40 PM
I think I favor an option that's not listed. Keep both and let them compete for CF. And go from there.

thorn
07-15-2009, 03:11 PM
Keep both, move Frazier to 3B, if you have to trade anyone, look at Alonso and EE. Depth is never a bad thing, I would rather have 12 guys on a team capable of starting and pushing each other than 8 starters and 4 you hope don't play enough to hurt the team.

TheNext44
07-15-2009, 03:21 PM
Just curiously, what is the history of players who have done what Heisey has done? That is, be a mid round draft pick, play decently if uninspired for two or three seasons, then turn it on and dominate AA and/or AAA pitching.

Who has done that before, or something like that before, and how did they end up playing in the majors?

I am not looking for any one answer, or trying to make a point. I just have no idea and think it's a good question to ask.

OnBaseMachine
07-15-2009, 03:36 PM
Just curiously, what is the history of players who have done what Heisey has done? That is, be a mid round draft pick, play decently if uninspired for two or three seasons, then turn it on and dominate AA and/or AAA pitching.

Who has done that before, or something like that before, and how did they end up playing in the majors?

I am not looking for any one answer, or trying to make a point. I just have no idea and think it's a good question to ask.

Jason Bay was a 22nd round draft pick. He posted a .727 OPS in High-A and .743 OPS in Rookie Ball.

Shane Victorino - 6th round pick. Posted a .748 OPS in AA, .759 overall in the minors.

Nate McLouth - 25th round pick. .765 OPS in AAA, .794 in minors.

Mike Lowell - 20th round pick. .651 OPS in Rookie Ball, .768 OPS in Low-A.

I'm sure there are more. I'm just thinking of guys off the top of my head.

Benihana
07-15-2009, 03:39 PM
Just curiously, what is the history of players who have done what Heisey has done? That is, be a mid round draft pick, play decently if uninspired for two or three seasons, then turn it on and dominate AA and/or AAA pitching.

Who has done that before, or something like that before, and how did they end up playing in the majors?

I am not looking for any one answer, or trying to make a point. I just have no idea and think it's a good question to ask.

Chris Denorfia circa 2005 comes to mind, although as BA noted few players (let alone late round picks) have had as much of a meteoric rise as Heisey has in the first half of this year.

FWIW, I never really believed in Denorfia. I'm starting to come around on Heisey.

Will M
07-15-2009, 04:07 PM
Keep both, move Frazier to 3B, if you have to trade anyone, look at Alonso and EE. Depth is never a bad thing, I would rather have 12 guys on a team capable of starting and pushing each other than 8 starters and 4 you hope don't play enough to hurt the team.

the future Reds could look something like that:
1B Votto
2B Phillips
SS Player acquired by trading Alonso
3B EE in 2010 with Frazier taking over in 2011
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs/Dickerson
LF Heisey/Dickerson
C Hanigan

dougdirt
07-15-2009, 04:09 PM
the future Reds could look something like that:
1B Votto
2B Phillips
SS Player acquired by trading Alonso
3B EE in 2010 with Frazier taking over in 2011
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs/Dickerson
LF Heisey/Dickerson
C Hanigan

The lack of respect that Zack Cozart gets around here is crazy. I honestly have him in the same conversation with Heisey and Stubbs right now when ranking the Reds 4-6 prospects.

Will M
07-15-2009, 04:33 PM
The lack of respect that Zack Cozart gets around here is crazy. I honestly have him in the same conversation with Heisey and Stubbs right now when ranking the Reds 4-6 prospects.

i too like Cozart. if he was one level ahead of where he is we could pencil him in at SS for 2010. however i would expect him to play in AAA next year.
the problem is we have a big hole at SS for the rest of this year and next.

Doug, you know a lot about the Reds prospects. what do you think his ETA is for the major league team?

dougdirt
07-15-2009, 04:58 PM
i too like Cozart. if he was one level ahead of where he is we could pencil him in at SS for 2010. however i would expect him to play in AAA next year.
the problem is we have a big hole at SS for the rest of this year and next.

Doug, you know a lot about the Reds prospects. what do you think his ETA is for the major league team?
Seems pretty short sighted to trade Alonso for a SS if we have an in house option hitting well at the AA level. The Reds are going nowhere this year so the fact that we have a hole at SS in 2009 means very little. As for 2010, if its down to an Alex Gonzalez type (past his prime 'defensive' minded SS who isn't all that great defensively and who can't be counted on offensively) and Cozart, I would absolutely 100% go with Cozart. I think his ETA is really going to depend on things that we simply can't know. I think he should get a call to AAA in August and if he performs well there, Cincinnati in September for a taste. Ideally that could put him on track for 2010 in April if he performs. However that doesn't mean the Reds are going to do it that way.

redsfandan
07-15-2009, 05:45 PM
We don't need to trade one to trade one, but this team has other problems that do need to be addressed in the trade market. There just aren't guys in the pipeline for certain areas and the team is going to need to aquire some one. They can't really afford free agents that can help much, so if there is no trade from areas of depth, how does the team go about acquiring what it needs?

Stubbs/Heisey along with Valaika/Frazier, Francisco/Soto and a few of the young pitchers are the depth areas that this team needs to draw on to improve the major league team.
We need a shortstop and ideally a leftfielder. Those are the only problems I see that need to be addressed. I'm just not sure there's a true shortstop that's available and worth Alonso. I want to see how Cozart does the rest of the year. If he's ready to help split the job between him and Janish or an ok FA. A Cozart that's ready and a good FA bat for left (and a trade of Arroyo) and I'm happy.

thorn
07-15-2009, 07:41 PM
Personally, I don't think we should go after any FA for the forseeable future, I'd rather trade surplus prospects and veterans who perfrom at an "Average" pace but get paid for much more, for position of need prospects, namely pitching. I don't think we can have too many pitchers of quality, either in the majors or minors. Players like Harang, Aroyo, EE were "Good Enough" at one time, now not so much, we should be replacing them in hopes of finding the next "Votto", players who are great no matter the price. With a well stacked minors "Good Enough" players are just not good enough anymore.

p.s. I agree with Doug about Cozart. Besides, with Valika, Sutton and Janish, we can "Hold" the position down next year if need be.

Mario-Rijo
07-16-2009, 01:15 AM
The lack of respect that Zack Cozart gets around here is crazy. I honestly have him in the same conversation with Heisey and Stubbs right now when ranking the Reds 4-6 prospects.

I don't think it's a lack of respect but more a thought of let's not pin our SS hopes on just 1 guy who "might" be able to get the job done anytime in the so-so distant future. Frankly I'm getting extremely tired of waiting for every position to be filled via the minors before we get serious about competing, let's get serious about competing and yesterday. What if Cozart doesn't pan out, or maybe just has an unfortunate accident in the near future that keeps him out for an extended period of time? Do we just sit on the timetable like we keep doing with everyone else or do we make another move to fill the position?

The Reds F.O. needs to make a concerted effort and extremely soon to make this roster one that can compete very soon, this has been old.

dougdirt
07-16-2009, 01:23 AM
I don't think it's a lack of respect but more a thought of let's not pin our SS hopes on just 1 guy who "might" be able to get the job done anytime in the so-so distant future. Frankly I'm getting extremely tired of waiting for every position to be filled via the minors before we get serious about competing, let's get serious about competing and yesterday. What if Cozart doesn't pan out, or maybe just has an unfortunate accident in the near future that keeps him out for an extended period of time? Do we just sit on the timetable like we keep doing with everyone else or do we make another move to fill the position?

The Reds F.O. needs to make a concerted effort and extremely soon to make this roster one that can compete very soon, this has been old.

If the Reds want to go out and get a legit SS of MLB caliber, then lets go for it. However if the Reds are going to go out and spend 5 million per year on another questionable shortstop, then what is the point?

Now as for Cozart and maybe being an answer... well thats just chance the Reds are going to have to take if they aren't willing to spend 10 million a year on a shortstop and well, the odds aren't good that they are going to be doing that anytime soon. Cozart has shown at a relatively high level in the minors that he has strong plate discipline, no glaring offensive weakness and that he is a good glove man.

redsfandan
07-16-2009, 05:10 AM
Personally, I don't think we should go after any FA for the forseeable future, I'd rather trade surplus prospects and veterans who perfrom at an "Average" pace but get paid for much more, for position of need prospects, namely pitching. I don't think we can have too many pitchers of quality, either in the majors or minors. Players like Harang, Aroyo, EE were "Good Enough" at one time, now not so much, we should be replacing them in hopes of finding the next "Votto", players who are great no matter the price. With a well stacked minors "Good Enough" players are just not good enough anymore.

p.s. I agree with Doug about Cozart. Besides, with Valika, Sutton and Janish, we can "Hold" the position down next year if need be.
If we really want to compete in 2010 we'll need at least one player that's a safe bet to help the offense and the easiest positions to do that are short and left (with Dickerson ideally in center). We could just use internal options for both spots but it's far from a given that we'd get the kind of production we need to give the offense a boost.

All three of those players (Harang, Arroyo, & EE) are locked up though 2010 with 2011 options for Harang/Arroyo. We may be able to deal one of the pitchers but we probably can't afford to get rid of the other two just yet.

TheNext44
07-16-2009, 02:09 PM
Jason Bay was a 22nd round draft pick. He posted a .727 OPS in High-A and .743 OPS in Rookie Ball.

Shane Victorino - 6th round pick. Posted a .748 OPS in AA, .759 overall in the minors.

Nate McLouth - 25th round pick. .765 OPS in AAA, .794 in minors.

Mike Lowell - 20th round pick. .651 OPS in Rookie Ball, .768 OPS in Low-A.

I'm sure there are more. I'm just thinking of guys off the top of my head.

Thanks! Doubt he's big enough to turn into a Bay, but a Victorino or McLouth would be nice.

Degenerate39
07-16-2009, 02:19 PM
the future Reds could look something like that:
1B Votto
2B Phillips
SS Player acquired by trading Alonso
3B EE in 2010 with Frazier taking over in 2011
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs/Dickerson
LF Heisey/Dickerson
C Hanigan

I doubt Frazier is that far long away from the majors

Scrap Irony
07-16-2009, 02:59 PM
According to Cot's, these are the free agents available after this season:

Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera OAK
Bobby Crosby OAK
Adam Everett DET
Alex Gonzalez * CIN
Khalil Greene STL
John McDonald TOR
Marco Scutaro TOR
Miguel Tejada HOU
Jack Wilson * PIT


Tejada can still hit, but isn't a good SS. Scutaro is having a career year. Not much else.

Orenda
07-16-2009, 03:16 PM
The lack of respect that Zack Cozart gets around here is crazy. I honestly have him in the same conversation with Heisey and Stubbs right now when ranking the Reds 4-6 prospects.

I was wait and see on Cozart due to his bat being questioned but his production has been a surprise this year.

I noticed he has already committed 17 errors this season at ss, compared to only 11 total last season. Any explanation for this other than a poor sample? Is he having throwing difficulties?

dougdirt
07-16-2009, 03:18 PM
I was wait and see on Cozart due to his bat being questioned but his production has been a surprise this year.

I noticed he has already committed 17 errors this season at ss, compared to only 11 total last season. Any explanation for this other than a poor sample? Is he having throwing difficulties?

The field in Carolina, at best, sucks.

LoganBuck
07-16-2009, 03:56 PM
Just curiously, what is the history of players who have done what Heisey has done? That is, be a mid round draft pick, play decently if uninspired for two or three seasons, then turn it on and dominate AA and/or AAA pitching.

Who has done that before, or something like that before, and how did they end up playing in the majors?

I am not looking for any one answer, or trying to make a point. I just have no idea and think it's a good question to ask.

Steve Smitherman, another Futures Game participant

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/steve-smitherman.shtml

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 03:59 PM
I don't remember anyone ever projecting Smitherman as an above average regular. That's what scouts are projecting Heisey as.

LoganBuck
07-16-2009, 04:02 PM
I don't remember anyone ever projecting Smitherman as an above average regular. That's what scouts are projecting Heisey as.

Maybe not those "in the know" but the Marty Brennamens and Lance McCallisters of the world were very excited about him.

membengal
07-16-2009, 04:56 PM
I am seeing plenty of love for both prospects in the above results, by the way.

redsfandan
07-16-2009, 05:46 PM
Maybe not those "in the know" but the Marty Brennamens and Lance McCallisters of the world were very excited about him.
And that's worth how much??

LoganBuck
07-16-2009, 09:21 PM
And that's worth how much??

Gotta remember it in the context of the time. JR, Dunn, Kearns, and Pena were all entrenched, with Freel as hustle depth. The casual fans weren't begging for the next big thing. I remember several conversations when Griffey was hurt, about putting Dunn at first and calling up Smitherman to go with Kearns and Pena in the OF.

camisadelgolf
07-17-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't remember anyone ever projecting Smitherman as an above average regular. That's what scouts are projecting Heisey as.
Very true. It seemed the Reds didn't have much interest in calling him up, but his numbers pretty much forced them to give him a try. Steve Gibralter had a similar story back in '95.

Mario-Rijo
07-17-2009, 04:20 PM
According to Cot's, these are the free agents available after this season:

Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera OAK
Bobby Crosby OAK
Adam Everett DET
Alex Gonzalez * CIN
Khalil Greene STL
John McDonald TOR
Marco Scutaro TOR
Miguel Tejada HOU
Jack Wilson * PIT


Tejada can still hit, but isn't a good SS. Scutaro is having a career year. Not much else.

I don't know why he isn't listed there but I'm pretty sure Macier Izturis will be a FA as well.

Mario-Rijo
07-17-2009, 04:34 PM
If the Reds want to go out and get a legit SS of MLB caliber, then lets go for it. However if the Reds are going to go out and spend 5 million per year on another questionable shortstop, then what is the point?

Now as for Cozart and maybe being an answer... well thats just chance the Reds are going to have to take if they aren't willing to spend 10 million a year on a shortstop and well, the odds aren't good that they are going to be doing that anytime soon. Cozart has shown at a relatively high level in the minors that he has strong plate discipline, no glaring offensive weakness and that he is a good glove man.

Hmm, a popular opinion but one I don't agree with. SS is one of, if not the most premiere everyday positions on the field and yet 5 million for a good defender who has at least some offensive capability at that position is somehow again and again construed as a bad investment. 5 million-ish per for Gonzo at the time was a good price IMO no matter what followed.

And I would also spend 5 million-ish per on Izturis next offseason assuming he's available (am pretty sure he is a FA). You may not get a guy who can do it all with him but he does enough to warrant 5 million based on what others at the position make. He's a solid defender with no glaring weaknesses, and isn't an offensive liability even though he's no offensive juggernaut. Now I would give him a 3 year deal and tell him up front that he will be given every opportunity to win and keep the job but that our organization plays the best players (despite the fact we know better in reality) and that he should never get comfortable. And if in a year or 2 Cozart can take his job well then we have an expensive bench player but one who has done it before and can play both MI spots and would be a solid guy off the bench. Or a fairly priced guy who should bring something solid back in a trade down the road.

redsfandan
07-18-2009, 12:52 PM
I don't know why he isn't listed there but I'm pretty sure Macier Izturis will be a FA as well.
I see him listed on one site as arbitration eligible this upcoming offseason and a FA after 2010. Cots has him listed under 3rd basemen in the tab:

Potential Free Agents for 2011
The following players have contracts expiring or should have the six years of service necessary to become free agents after the 2010 season.

Third Basemen
Garrett Atkins COL
Wilson Betemit CWS
Jorge Cantu FLA
Eric Chavez OAK *
Pedro Feliz PHI
Bill Hall MIL *
Brandon Inge DET
Maicer Izturis LAA
Mike Lowell BOS
Melvin Mora BAL
Nick Punto MIN *
Scott Rolen TOR
Ty Wigginton BAL

GIDP
07-18-2009, 01:49 PM
I don't remember anyone ever projecting Smitherman as an above average regular. That's what scouts are projecting Heisey as.

Chris Smitherman played baseball!!!!

Mario-Rijo
07-18-2009, 03:44 PM
I see him listed on one site as arbitration eligible this upcoming offseason and a FA after 2010. Cots has him listed under 3rd basemen in the tab:

Potential Free Agents for 2011
The following players have contracts expiring or should have the six years of service necessary to become free agents after the 2010 season.

Third Basemen
Garrett Atkins COL
Wilson Betemit CWS
Jorge Cantu FLA
Eric Chavez OAK *
Pedro Feliz PHI
Bill Hall MIL *
Brandon Inge DET
Maicer Izturis LAA
Mike Lowell BOS
Melvin Mora BAL
Nick Punto MIN *
Scott Rolen TOR
Ty Wigginton BAL

Ah, even better good find RFD. 1 more year of arbitration maybe we can buy it out if we make a deal for him. Why they have him at 3rd I'll never know his best position is SS, although he can play 2B and 3B but I doubt his arm is quite good enough to be considered a 3B, adequate maybe but not ideal.

OnBaseMachine
07-26-2009, 05:47 PM
Drew Stubbs: The Reds’ outfield is not instilling much fear in opponents as of late. Willy Taveras and Laynce Nix each have OBPs below .300. With Jay Bruce’s 18 homers on the DL, Nix leads the outfielders with eight dingers on the year. Thankfully, the organization keeps churning out outfield prospects. Stubbs is absolutely dripping with potential, athleticism and tools. Although he’ll likely always struggle to hit for a high average due to his contact issues (25.4 K%), the left-handed hitter could still manage to bat .250-.270. He has just two homers on the year, but Stubbs has the potential to hit 10-15 with his fair share of walks in the Majors when he matures as a hitter. Currently, he has 36 steals in 42 attempts and plays a plus centerfield

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/minor-impacts-july-23

Obviously a mistake by the writer as Stubbs is a RH batter.

aubashbrother
07-26-2009, 05:49 PM
obm where ya been man

OnBaseMachine
07-26-2009, 05:57 PM
obm where ya been man

Myrtle Beach. I checked minor league scores on my brothers laptop but I stayed away from Redszone. ORG has been tough to read lately with the way the Reds are playing. Checking out hotties in bikinis or debating the Reds problems on Redszone? Hmmm, tough choice. ;)

Brutus
07-26-2009, 06:03 PM
Myrtle Beach. I checked minor league scores on my brothers laptop but I stayed away from Redszone. ORG has been tough to read lately with the way the Reds are playing. Checking out hotties in bikinis or debating the Reds problems on Redszone? Hmmm, tough choice. ;)

The Reds seem to be checking out the hotties while they're playing. Or checking out something other than the game, LOL.

Myrtle Beach sounds nice about now.

The Stubbs-Heisey dilemma is a nice one right now.

SMcGavin
07-26-2009, 08:46 PM
I'm way late to this debate but Stubbs has a .716 OPS in AAA. I love me some CF defense but the guy has to be able to hit a little bit.

This is not a proclaimation about the future or potential of Stubbs - I'm just saying right now there's no way I'd promote him before Heisey.

GIDP
07-26-2009, 10:16 PM
I'm way late to this debate but Stubbs has a .716 OPS in AAA. I love me some CF defense but the guy has to be able to hit a little bit.

This is not a proclaimation about the future or potential of Stubbs - I'm just saying right now there's no way I'd promote him before Heisey.

stubbs .716 is a lot different than someone slugging .400 at least :o

camisadelgolf
07-27-2009, 05:21 AM
Drew Stubbs: The Reds’ outfield is not instilling much fear in opponents as of late. Willy Taveras and Laynce Nix each have OBPs below .300. With Jay Bruce’s 18 homers on the DL, Nix leads the outfielders with eight dingers on the year. Thankfully, the organization keeps churning out outfield prospects. Stubbs is absolutely dripping with potential, athleticism and tools. Although he’ll likely always struggle to hit for a high average due to his contact issues (25.4 K%), the left-handed hitter could still manage to bat .250-.270. He has just two homers on the year, but Stubbs has the potential to hit 10-15 with his fair share of walks in the Majors when he matures as a hitter. Currently, he has 36 steals in 42 attempts and plays a plus centerfield

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/minor-impacts-july-23

Obviously a mistake by the writer as Stubbs is a RH batter.

BRM
07-28-2009, 02:11 PM
Per John Fay:



Also, I forgot to post this earlier but I asked Dusty Baker if Drew Stubbs and Chris Heisey were considered for Chris Dickerson's roster spot.

"Yeah," he said. "But they need to play."

Meaning, right now, the time in the outfield is going to go Laynce Nix, Jonny Gomes, Willy Taveras and Jerry Hairston Jr.

Stubbs numbers aren't all that good. He is hitting .268/.360/.366 with three homers, 37 steals and 31 RBI at Louisville. He’s struck out 84 times in 328 at-bats and has hit .200 over his last 10 games.

“Maybe they don’t want to expose him,” an American League scout said. “As long as he’s in the minors, he’s a prospect.”

Heisey is having the better year than Stubbs.

He has combined to hit .339/.407/.553 with 16 homers, 16 steals and 56 RBI in 96 games at Double-A and Triple-A.

Homer Bailey
07-28-2009, 02:13 PM
"Meaning, right now, the time in the outfield is going to go Laynce Nix, Jonny Gomes, Willy Taveras and Jerry Hairston Jr."

Just read that sentence. It really is amazing when you consider 2 short years ago our outfield read Adam Dunn, Josh Hamilton, and Ken Griffey Jr.

GIDP
07-28-2009, 02:14 PM
I posted that in the monday game thread.

I take that as we wont be seeing Stubbs or Heisey until 2011 unless they can play LF.

Benihana
07-28-2009, 02:18 PM
“Maybe they don’t want to expose him,” an American League scout said. “As long as he’s in the minors, he’s a prospect.”

My thoughts exactly.

Drew Stubbs = Felix Pie = younger, cheaper Willy Taveras

Trade him NOW

BRM
07-28-2009, 02:18 PM
I posted that in the monday game thread.

I take that as we wont be seeing Stubbs or Heisey until 2011 unless they can play LF.

Or Willy is let go.

BRM
07-28-2009, 02:19 PM
“Maybe they don’t want to expose him,” an American League scout said. “As long as he’s in the minors, he’s a prospect.”

My thoughts exactly.

Drew Stubbs = Felix Pie = younger, cheaper Willy Taveras

Trade him NOW

Stubbs is a better defender than those two but I get your point.

GIDP
07-28-2009, 02:20 PM
Or Willy is let go.

I dont see them eating 4 million on a player Dusty likely doesnt view as a problem.

GIDP
07-28-2009, 02:21 PM
“Maybe they don’t want to expose him,” an American League scout said. “As long as he’s in the minors, he’s a prospect.”

My thoughts exactly.

Drew Stubbs = Felix Pie = younger, cheaper Willy Taveras

Trade him NOW

I wonder if these are the same scouts Hal Mccoy talks to.

vottofan4life
07-28-2009, 02:24 PM
Stubbs and Cody Puckett to Nationals for Christian Guzman

BRM
07-28-2009, 03:04 PM
I dont see them eating 4 million on a player Dusty likely doesnt view as a problem.

I don't either.

BRM
08-03-2009, 12:41 PM
The numbers are much closer now that Heisey has hit a rough patch.

Heisey: .276/.308/.431/.739
Stubbs: .275/.364/.371/.735

GIDP
08-03-2009, 12:51 PM
I expect to see what heisey really is from here on out.

HokieRed
08-03-2009, 01:59 PM
The numbers are much closer now that Heisey has hit a rough patch.

Heisey: .276/.308/.431/.739
Stubbs: .275/.364/.371/.735

Neither one of which looks like an argument for immediate promotion.

OnBaseMachine
08-03-2009, 03:27 PM
Heisey's in his first true slump of the season. It's hard to go that long without slumping. Hopefully he breaks out of it soon and earns a promotion to Cincy (Stubbs too).

BRM
08-03-2009, 03:32 PM
Heisey's in his first true slump of the season. It's hard to go that long without slumping. Hopefully he breaks out of it soon and earns a promotion to Cincy (Stubbs too).

I'm with you. I'd love for one or both of these to start raking and force Walt's hand. Not sure they'd get any time if they were to get promoted though as long as Willy, Nix and Gomes are on the roster.

OnBaseMachine
08-04-2009, 08:58 PM
Jocketty on Stubbs:

--On Drew Stubbs: “He’ll be here before the end of the year,” Jocketty kidded.

But he added: “What he’s done lately has not gone unnoticed.”

Stubbs is hitting .306 with a .375 on-base percentage since the All-Star Break. He’s leads the International League in steals – 42 in 47 tries

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a40f67015-0e9f-415e-8792-f42edcb401d5&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

GIDP
08-04-2009, 10:20 PM
Jocketty kidded?

I cant wait for him to be playing left field for us.

bubbachunk
08-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Jocketty kidded?

I cant wait for him to be playing left field for us.

And to hit 7th

nemesis
08-05-2009, 05:16 PM
Jocketty kidded?

I cant wait for him to be playing left field for us.

Screw it if he has to play LF just to get up here and "hopefully" (pigs flying by) bats leadoff, I'm sure him and every RZ would take it just to see what he has and maybe force the powers that be to DFA Taveras after another rough Spring Training or first month of the season.

BRM
08-05-2009, 06:16 PM
I can't imagine Dusty will bat him leadoff when he gets called up. 7th or 8th maybe.

GIDP
08-05-2009, 06:39 PM
I can't imagine Dusty will bat him leadoff when he gets called up. 7th or 8th maybe.

He will hit him lead off one day 2 weeks after he comes up then put him right back down to 7th.

GIDP
08-05-2009, 06:40 PM
Screw it if he has to play LF just to get up here and "hopefully" (pigs flying by) bats leadoff, I'm sure him and every RZ would take it just to see what he has and maybe force the powers that be to DFA Taveras after another rough Spring Training or first month of the season.

How many teams DFA a player that they start every day? I really cant think of any.

Taveras isnt going anywhere.

nemesis
08-05-2009, 06:53 PM
I can't imagine Dusty will bat him leadoff when he gets called up. 7th or 8th maybe.

Oh your right hence the (pigs flying by) comment. But a close look at Drew's stats show that with the bases empty... AKA leadoff his numbers are...

Bases Empty - .305/BA .379/OBP .407/SLG .786/OPS all very nice.

Now with runners he turns into a different style of hitter...

Runners On - .234/BA .351/OBP .328/SLG .679/OPS

Meaning he looks to walk more when people are on 1st ahead of him.

But if there are runners on 2nd or 3rd he changes into a completly different hitter yet again.

RISP - .289/BA .429/OBP .408/SLG .836/OPS

The real interesting thing here is this is the only time he walks more than he K's. 19 BB vs 16 K's in these situations.

Now we all know that Dusty doesn't look at numbers. Hence Taveras and Gonzo hitting 1 and 2 even though combined there OPS+ is less than a 100 and they both are bottom 4 in VORP in all of baseball... but regardless, if we had a manager with a lick of statistical sense...

Stubbs is perfect for leadoff. He gets on at well above average rate, especially with what we've been used to the last two years.

He will either get a majority of AB's leading off an inning or being the 3rd or 4th batter say after the 8 and 9 hitters get out. The other scenario is him hitting with one or two outs with a runner on second ala hit or walk by the 8 hitter and a bunt by the pitcher also playing to his strong statistical suits... He can suceed in the ML's he just has to be put in the correct position to play to his stong suits...

GIDP
08-05-2009, 06:54 PM
how many PA are those numbers based off of?

nemesis
08-05-2009, 06:55 PM
How many teams DFA a player that they start every day? I really cant think of any.

Taveras isnt going anywhere.

Not this year. But I think the leash will be shorted if he had a rough Spring Training or a real bad start to the season. It will be a little easier to swallow the money if he flops again in the last year of a contract. Then again we kept Gonzo all the way though the last year of his contract when he needed DFA 2 months ago... Pfff... What was I thinking...?

GIDP
08-05-2009, 06:57 PM
Taveras is doing worse than anyone in baseball this year. If they need a bad spring to have the stones DFA him that is scary.

nemesis
08-05-2009, 06:59 PM
how many PA are those numbers based off of?

His entire season this year...

I pulled the numbers from here...

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=&sid=t416&t=p_pbp&pid=453211

nemesis
08-05-2009, 07:00 PM
Taveras is doing worse than anyone in baseball this year except for Alex Gonzalez. If they need a bad spring to have the stones DFA him that is scary.


Fixed it for you...

GIDP
08-05-2009, 07:02 PM
I give Willy the nod there mainly because hes had so much more chances to be so bad. :D

GIDP
08-12-2009, 11:12 AM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=6005

In many ways, Louisville center fielder Drew Stubbs was the opposite image of Wieters. He won three Best Tools categories in reasonably handy fashion, yet he somewhat ironically didn’t get any support when it came to Most Exciting Player. Stubbs reminded Allenson of Devon White, in terms of baserunning, because he runs with long strides and, despite his speed, doesn’t seem to exert much energy on the basepaths.

bucksfan2
08-12-2009, 11:47 AM
I have a feeling Stubbs will have a better pro career than his minor league career.

Brutus
08-12-2009, 02:51 PM
I have a feeling Stubbs will have a better pro career than his minor league career.

I'm a big Chris Heisey fan. But that's the one thing I keep coming back to as well. I do think Stubbs is a guy that could blossom into a really, really good CF/leadoff hitter for the Reds (The Dusty would wet himself).

flyer85
08-12-2009, 03:11 PM
I do think Stubbs is a guy that could blossom into a really, really good CF/leadoff hitter for the Reds (The Dusty would wet himself).my guess is a lot of other organizations think the same think. Trade his potential and let them have the risk.

There is no room in the OF for Heisey and Stubbs (IMO Bruce will be in RF and Votto in LF). The bigger issue is what to do with Alonso/Votto.

GIDP
08-12-2009, 03:22 PM
If Jacoby Ellsbury is untouchable then I dont see why Drew Stubbs isnt equally as valuable.

Brutus
08-12-2009, 03:51 PM
my guess is a lot of other organizations think the same think. Trade his potential and let them have the risk.

There is no room in the OF for Heisey and Stubbs (IMO Bruce will be in RF and Votto in LF). The bigger issue is what to do with Alonso/Votto.

I agree about Votto & Alonso, but if that's the case, you've solved your own question. If it happens that Votto will move to LF to make way for Alonso, then there's probably no issue. It's just a matter of trading Stubbs or Heisey. I prefer Heisey to Stubbs as of today, but I do think Stubbs' ceiling is higher.

Benihana
08-12-2009, 05:15 PM
If Jacoby Ellsbury is untouchable then I dont see why Drew Stubbs isnt equally as valuable.

What?

Benihana
08-12-2009, 05:16 PM
my guess is a lot of other organizations think the same think. Trade his potential and let them have the risk.

There is no room in the OF for Heisey and Stubbs (IMO Bruce will be in RF and Votto in LF). The bigger issue is what to do with Alonso/Votto.

My thoughts exactly.

Put Stubbs in a package for JJ Hardy. Cameron is a FA after this year and they have no in-house replacement.

fearofpopvol1
08-12-2009, 05:31 PM
I agree about Votto & Alonso, but if that's the case, you've solved your own question. If it happens that Votto will move to LF to make way for Alonso, then there's probably no issue. It's just a matter of trading Stubbs or Heisey. I prefer Heisey to Stubbs as of today, but I do think Stubbs' ceiling is higher.

I think it's entirely possible that the Reds move Alonso for another piece (SS or another need position) keeping Votto at 1B and either slotting Heisey in LF or adding a LF via trade/FA.

Benihana
08-12-2009, 05:33 PM
I think it's entirely possible that the Reds move Alonso for another piece (SS or another need position) keeping Votto at 1B and either slotting Heisey in LF or adding a LF via trade/FA.

His name starts with a W and is followed by an L

I don't think Heisey can hit enough for LF, but I like him in CF.

If they trade for Hardy, they won't need to trade Alonso for a SS. Pitching on the other hand...

GIDP
08-12-2009, 05:53 PM
What?

Jacoby Ellsbury is viewed as an untouchable player. Is he really that much better than Stubbs? I just dont see it.

Benihana
08-12-2009, 05:56 PM
Jacoby Ellsbury is viewed as an untouchable player. Is he really that much better than Stubbs? I just dont see it.

Yes, he is.

He put up significantly better numbers in the minors. More importantly, he's doing better for the Red Sox than Stubbs is in the minor leagues. Enough said.

GIDP
08-12-2009, 06:05 PM
Stubbs minor league career is a .772 OPS player
Ellsubry minor league career is a .812 OPS player.

AAA numbers
Stubbs .737 OPS
Ellsbury .740

The biggest difference is their slugging which is bumped up because ellsbury had more singles. Stubbs hits more extra base hits.
:dunno:

Benihana
08-12-2009, 06:07 PM
Stubbs minor league career is a .772 OPS player
Ellsubry minor league career is a .812 OPS player.

AAA numbers
Stubbs .737 OPS
Ellsbury .740

:dunno:

2009
Ellsbury in the AL East: .755 OPS
Stubbs in AAA: .732 OPS

That's all you need to know.

I'd be surprised (and happy) if Stubbs ever puts up a .755 OPS in the majors, let alone in the AL East when he's 25. He's never put up an OPS above .800 in any level in the minors (with a minimum of 100 ABs.) While neither player ever displayed much power, Ellsbury's OBP is largely BA driven while Stubbs' is largely BB driven. Those BBs can disappear quickly when major league pitchers figure out he's not a threat to take them deep. That's why I'd like to trade Stubbs NOW.

GIDP
08-12-2009, 06:10 PM
2009
Ellsbury in the AL East: .755 OPS
Stubbs in AAA: .732 OPS

I'd be surprised (and happy) if Stubbs ever puts up a .755 OPS in the majors, let alone in the AL East when he's 25. That's all you need to know.

Ellsbury's home park helps him a lot.

Benihana
08-12-2009, 06:13 PM
Ellsbury's home park helps him a lot.

Doesn't matter. Stubbs could never put up a .750 OPS in the AL East- in any park.

GIDP
08-12-2009, 06:19 PM
Doesn't matter. Stubbs could never put up a .750 OPS in the AL East- in any park.

How do you know? You cant really prove that. Fact is though Ellsbury is a .707 OPS player outside of Fenway. The amount of doubles he hits in Fenway is an insane amount. Hes hit 32 in 583 ABs at home, and 15 in 628 on the road. Considering Stubbs ability to hit more doubles and home runs and draw more walks in the minors I dont think they are much different offensively. Stubbs actually does seem to have more power even though the slugging percentage doesnt show it.

Brutus
08-12-2009, 06:55 PM
How do you know? You cant really prove that. Fact is though Ellsbury is a .707 OPS player outside of Fenway. The amount of doubles he hits in Fenway is an insane amount. Hes hit 32 in 583 ABs at home, and 15 in 628 on the road. Considering Stubbs ability to hit more doubles and home runs and draw more walks in the minors I dont think they are much different offensively. Stubbs actually does seem to have more power even though the slugging percentage doesnt show it.

He projects for a lot more power than he's shown with that frame. That's why the 'potential' label stays stuck on him. People feel like the power will come. Maybe it won't. But his ceiling is arguably higher than Ellsbury's (though I do see where Benihana is coming from on his points).

GIDP
08-12-2009, 07:20 PM
He projects for a lot more power than he's shown with that frame. That's why the 'potential' label stays stuck on him. People feel like the power will come. Maybe it won't. But his ceiling is arguably higher than Ellsbury's (though I do see where Benihana is coming from on his points).

My point isnt that he projects more power. Its that he has substatially more power right now it just doesnt show up in the slugging because Ellsbury racked up a lot more triples.

fearofpopvol1
08-12-2009, 10:47 PM
His name starts with a W and is followed by an L

I don't think Heisey can hit enough for LF, but I like him in CF.

If they trade for Hardy, they won't need to trade Alonso for a SS. Pitching on the other hand...

You don't think Heisey can hit enough in LF, but you think Wlad can?? Based on major league numbers?? No doubt, he has a high ceiling, but he's still a very unproven commodity. Heisey has a .918 OPS between AA-AAA with 18 HRs in 426 ABs. .324 BA ain't half bad either. Dude can hit just fine for a LF. By comparison, Wlad's AA and AAA numbers averaged out to be approximately in the .860 range. There is no doubt that Wlad has more power than Heisey, but there's also no doubt that Heisey does a far superior job at getting on base while striking out less and hitting for a higher average. Heisey is also a little bit younger.

So in my opinion, it's not a clear cut answer. Personally, I'll take the guy that makes fewer outs with a bit less power than the guy who makes more outs that has more power, but that's just me.

bucksfan2
08-13-2009, 08:56 AM
He projects for a lot more power than he's shown with that frame. That's why the 'potential' label stays stuck on him. People feel like the power will come. Maybe it won't. But his ceiling is arguably higher than Ellsbury's (though I do see where Benihana is coming from on his points).

Stubbs has that "did you just see that" type of power. Why he hasn't become more consistent with that power is another question. But regardless of that his ability go get a ball and being able to find 1b are big assets for Stubbs. I just see a guy in Stubbs who continues to improve his game every year. I don't think he is done improving, nor do I think he is a finished product. I think there was a reason why the Reds have kept him in AAA, having him work on one facet of his hitting that will help him down the road. What that is I have no idea.

Benihana
08-13-2009, 10:19 AM
You don't think Heisey can hit enough in LF, but you think Wlad can?? Based on major league numbers?? No doubt, he has a high ceiling, but he's still a very unproven commodity. Heisey has a .918 OPS between AA-AAA with 18 HRs in 426 ABs. .324 BA ain't half bad either. Dude can hit just fine for a LF. By comparison, Wlad's AA and AAA numbers averaged out to be approximately in the .860 range. There is no doubt that Wlad has more power than Heisey, but there's also no doubt that Heisey does a far superior job at getting on base while striking out less and hitting for a higher average. Heisey is also a little bit younger.

So in my opinion, it's not a clear cut answer. Personally, I'll take the guy that makes fewer outs with a bit less power than the guy who makes more outs that has more power, but that's just me.

What concerns me a little bit about Heisey is that he's really put up a great 10 weeks. Yes, he was very solid before that, but he was never considered much of a prospect- he always projected to a 4th or 5th OF at best. Even this year- after his hot start in AAA, he has been fairly pedestrian at that level.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still like him a lot more than I did coming into this year- and I do like him as a CF going forward (at least to platoon with Dickerson in the beginning.) He plays very good defense, and as you mentioned he has a knack for getting on base. But I wouldn't count on him to hold down a corner OF spot for the future. These late round picks who show flashes are much more often flash-in-the-pan types than they are great corner OFs. Just ask Chris Denorfia or Steve Smitherman.

I don't mean to be Debbie Downer, but I've been more excited about other Reds prospects than I am about our current duo of AAA CFs. I prefer Heisey to Stubbs, but I prefer Balentien to Heisey- at least as a corner OF. Even with Heisey's phenomenal season, Wlad put up better numbers over the course of his minor league career. Sure he has a long swing, but I think he profiles as much more of a true corner OF than Heisey. I would caution to not get overexcited about our own guys, especially when neither of them (Stubbs or Heisey) would crack anyone's Top 25 (and probably Top 50) list at this point.

fearofpopvol1
08-13-2009, 01:18 PM
What concerns me a little bit about Heisey is that he's really put up a great 10 weeks. Yes, he was very solid before that, but he was never considered much of a prospect- he always projected to a 4th or 5th OF at best. Even this year- after his hot start in AAA, he has been fairly pedestrian at that level.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still like him a lot more than I did coming into this year- and I do like him as a CF going forward (at least to platoon with Dickerson in the beginning.) He plays very good defense, and as you mentioned he has a knack for getting on base. But I wouldn't count on him to hold down a corner OF spot for the future. These late round picks who show flashes are much more often flash-in-the-pan types than they are great corner OFs. Just ask Chris Denorfia or Steve Smitherman.

I don't mean to be Debbie Downer, but I've been more excited about other Reds prospects than I am about our current duo of AAA CFs. I prefer Heisey to Stubbs, but I prefer Balentien to Heisey- at least as a corner OF. Even with Heisey's phenomenal season, Wlad put up better numbers over the course of his minor league career. Sure he has a long swing, but I think he profiles as much more of a true corner OF than Heisey. I would caution to not get overexcited about our own guys, especially when neither of them (Stubbs or Heisey) would crack anyone's Top 25 (and probably Top 50) list at this point.

Made a mistake...the .860 thrown out was Wlad's AA/AAA OPS.

Anyway, I see what you're saying. I just happen to disagree. I think the Reds would benefit more from having Stubbs in CF and Heisey in RF (more cost effective too). I think Wlad would be an awesome bench. I think he could also help give Bruce days off when needed. Both guys are crapshoots, but I just feel like Heisey has shown more consistency than Wlad. Heisey wouldn't be a bad guy for CF by any means though.

GIDP
08-13-2009, 01:20 PM
I like Wlads chances of being a good major leaguer more than Heiseys if Hiesey isnt playing CF.

Will M
09-27-2009, 10:26 PM
With Stubbs having a good debut so far in the bigs and Heisey cooling off a bit in AAA I thought I would bump this thread.

what is Heisey's future with the Reds if Stubbs claims and holds the CF job in 2010?

dougdirt
09-28-2009, 03:41 AM
With Stubbs having a good debut so far in the bigs and Heisey cooling off a bit in AAA I thought I would bump this thread.

what is Heisey's future with the Reds if Stubbs claims and holds the CF job in 2010?

Solid 4th outfielder? He can play all the spots, can run the bases well, should be a solid bat off the bench.... makes a good backup to have.

Scrap Irony
09-28-2009, 01:02 PM
Fourth OF for now, with an eye toward taking over for Stubbs should he stumble. Heisey's glove is adequate (at least) and his bat less a gamble.

But Stubbs has cemented himself as the go-to guy at center field.

I'm guessing Heisey becomes trade bait within the year.

Benihana
04-21-2010, 02:39 PM
From July 2009:


“Maybe they don’t want to expose him,” an American League scout said. “As long as he’s in the minors, he’s a prospect.”

My thoughts exactly.

Drew Stubbs = Felix Pie = younger, cheaper Willy Taveras

Trade him NOW

Bump ;)

TRF
04-21-2010, 04:12 PM
“Maybe they don’t want to expose him,” an American League scout said. “As long as he’s in the minors, he’s a prospect.”

My thoughts exactly.

Drew Stubbs = Felix Pie = younger, cheaper Willy Taveras

Trade him NOW

you sir, are a prophet.

:D

bubbachunk
04-21-2010, 05:36 PM
Owe vey, can we at least let a little more time play out before judging this. It has been what 2 weeks of games?

Btw Heisey is not exactly tearing it up at AAA this year either so I guess he is chopped liver now too?

TRF
04-21-2010, 05:40 PM
Nah, but that Danny Dorn kid is tearing it up.

redsfandan
04-21-2010, 05:55 PM
Nah, but that Danny Dorn kid is tearing it up.
How old is that 'kid' now?

nate
04-21-2010, 06:07 PM
Owe vey, can we at least let a little more time play out before judging this. It has been what 2 weeks of games?

Btw Heisey is not exactly tearing it up at AAA this year either so I guess he is chopped liver now too?

This.

Benihana
04-21-2010, 06:28 PM
Owe vey, can we at least let a little more time play out before judging this. It has been what 2 weeks of games?

Btw Heisey is not exactly tearing it up at AAA this year either so I guess he is chopped liver now too?

To be honest with you, I think Chris Dickerson is doing a fine enough job in CF. I've said all along there would only be room for one of those three as a starter on the Reds- none of the three have enough stick to be an acceptable everyday LF. Hence the Reds would be wise to trade one or more of these three redundant skill sets.

How long must we endure Drew Stubbs and his sub-.550 OPS as an everyday starter? Should we give him all season? Or should we also consider his .718 OPS in Louisville over 400+ ABs last year as well? Maybe it is time to accept the fact that there is a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that he just won't be that good?

Of course as always, I hope I'm wrong. But I fear that I'm not.

TRF
04-22-2010, 09:51 AM
How old is that 'kid' now?

43 i think. but he's raking.