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View Full Version : SI: Reds Need To Be In The Hunt For OF'ers



RedLegSuperStar
07-15-2009, 05:07 PM
Jon Heyman: (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/07/15/gm.hotseat/1.html)


The Reds need to begin a hunt for outfielders after Jay Bruce fractured his wrist just before the break. Even before Bruce went down, they were looking.

RedLegSuperStar
07-15-2009, 05:09 PM
They need to.. but they will most likely wait till the deadline to see where they are.. it's easier that way.. who wants to be 5 games back when we could be 7-9 games back before making or eventually not making a move...

kaldaniels
07-15-2009, 05:13 PM
Heyman gives us no new info/insight with that blurb.

Degenerate39
07-15-2009, 05:23 PM
In other news it rained some where in the world today

OldXOhio
07-15-2009, 05:37 PM
What a revelation. Next week's Heyman blog: Reds need shortstop.

Redhook
07-15-2009, 08:51 PM
In other news it rained some where in the world today

:laugh:

Not the funniest post, but for some reason it made me laugh. Seriously, my sister, who doesn't know a baseball from a stick, knows the Reds need outfielders.

Highlifeman21
07-15-2009, 09:10 PM
I thought this organization was crawling with OF, 3B, 2B and 1B?

Chip R
07-15-2009, 09:22 PM
I thought this organization was crawling with OF, 3B, 2B and 1B?


They are. Unfortunately they are all named Todd Frazier. ;)

GAC
07-15-2009, 09:26 PM
I thought this organization was crawling with OF, 3B, 2B and 1B?

Baker has multi-talented Hairston. Why look elsewhere? He's the complete package. :p:

Jpup
07-16-2009, 09:26 AM
I thought this organization was crawling with OF, 3B, 2B and 1B?

The Reds have no depth in the minors. That's just the way it is, no matter who likes to contend otherwise. You can say it all day long, but the proof is in the pudding. They have no one that is ready to play for the Reds on an everyday basis that is currently in the minor leagues. If they call up Stubbs he will sit the bench or be terribly unproductive.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 10:55 AM
The Reds have no depth in the minors. That's just the way it is, no matter who likes to contend otherwise. You can say it all day long, but the proof is in the pudding. They have no one that is ready to play for the Reds on an everyday basis that is currently in the minor leagues. If they call up Stubbs he will sit the bench or be terribly unproductive.

Of course that's your opinion and I disagree with it. Chris Heisey is pretty close to being major league ready. Todd Frazier is inching closer. Josh Roenicke and Carlos Fisher have pitched well out of the pen. Homer Bailey has looked very good in his last two starts. The farm is in good shape, IMO.

edabbs44
07-16-2009, 11:08 AM
Of course that's your opinion and I disagree with it. Chris Heisey is pretty close to being major league ready. Todd Frazier is inching closer. Josh Roenicke and Carlos Fisher have pitched well out of the pen. Homer Bailey has looked very good in his last two starts. The farm is in good shape, IMO.

Fisher, Roenicke and Homer are all in the majors right now.

traderumor
07-16-2009, 11:09 AM
The Reds have no depth in the minors. That's just the way it is, no matter who likes to contend otherwise. You can say it all day long, but the proof is in the pudding. They have no one that is ready to play for the Reds on an everyday basis that is currently in the minor leagues. If they call up Stubbs he will sit the bench or be terribly unproductive.

I'm not sure that this reasoning is evidence of lack of depth in the organization. While the Reds do not have folks languishing in the minors, blocked by someone else, they do have at least three hitters that might hit the bigs between now and 2010 in Stubbs, Heisey and Frazier. I am of a mind that Stubbs or Heisey could come up and improve the lineup right now. Alonso may be in that mix in 2010 as well as they seem to be fast tracking him. We have already seen relievers like Fisher and Roenicke come up and do a good job, and Bailey could soon be counted if he has truly turned the corner.

I'm not sure that your definition of "depth in the minors" as "no one that is ready to play for the Reds on an everyday basis that is currently in the minor leagues" is an appropriate measure of "depth in the minors."

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 11:14 AM
Fisher, Roenicke and Homer are all in the majors right now.

That's my point. The farm has already churned out a few players who are currently helping the major league team and more help could be on the way in Chris Heisey.

edabbs44
07-16-2009, 11:25 AM
That's my point. The farm has already churned out a few players who are currently helping the major league team and more help could be on the way in Chris Heisey.

Yeah, but he wasn't taking a shot at the farm in recent times. He said that there isn't anyone currently in the minors that is ready to play in the bigs on an everyday basis.

Jpup
07-16-2009, 11:34 AM
Yes, it is my opinion, but I just do not see any everyday players that the Reds could plug into the lineup everyday and consider them productive players. Stubbs and Heisey may have great defense, but I highly doubt their bats are ready for major league pitching. When you are pinning your hopes on Heisey, that kinda proves my point. That's one guy who "might" improve the club. For all the talk we hear about the stacked farm, it hasn't bore much fruit in terms of everyday players.

The Reds need to trade some of that stacked farm for some real proven commodities if they want to win soon. I think there is a false hope for 2010. I just don't see how the Reds will be any better next year without a major influx of major league talent.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 11:37 AM
Yes, it is my opinion, but I just do not see any everyday players that the Reds could plug into the lineup everyday and consider them productive players. Stubbs and Heisey may have great defense, but I highly doubt their bats are ready for major league pitching. When you are pinning your hopes on Heisey, that kinda proves my point. That's one guy who "might" improve the club. For all the talk we hear about the stacked farm, it hasn't bore much fruit in terms of everyday players.


Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Chris Dickerson, Ryan Hanigan? Do you expect them to produce two position players a year? That's unrealistic.

Jpup
07-16-2009, 11:41 AM
Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Chris Dickerson, Ryan Hanigan? Do you expect them to produce two position players a year? That's unrealistic.

The Reds have no one in the minors that could play everyday and be productive. That is my point.

Scrap Irony
07-16-2009, 11:42 AM
Chris Heisey is OPSing over 1.000 this season. I see no reason why he couldn't help a major league team. Especially in CF. And, as others have mentioned, he'd be the third starter (part-time) the farm has provided this year, after providing two last season.

And there's more on the way, in Drew Stubbs, Yonder Alonso, and Todd Frazier.

That's pretty much the definition of a productive farm.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 11:45 AM
The Reds have no one in the minors that could play everyday and be productive. That is my point.

You don't know that. Chris Heisey is killing the ball in AAA after destroying AA. For all we know he could come up and hit well and take over an outfield position.

Jpup
07-16-2009, 11:46 AM
You don't know that. Chris Heisey is killing the ball in AAA after destroying AA. For all we know he could come up and hit well and take over an outfield position.

I hope so, but why is he still playing in AAA if that is the case? Walt just watched him for several days.

edabbs44
07-16-2009, 11:49 AM
You don't know that. Chris Heisey is killing the ball in AAA after destroying AA. For all we know he could come up and hit well and take over an outfield position.

More than likely he wouldn't right now. He has been in AAA for like 50 ABs. He needs to stay there for a bit.

bucksfan2
07-16-2009, 12:05 PM
Yes, it is my opinion, but I just do not see any everyday players that the Reds could plug into the lineup everyday and consider them productive players. Stubbs and Heisey may have great defense, but I highly doubt their bats are ready for major league pitching. When you are pinning your hopes on Heisey, that kinda proves my point. That's one guy who "might" improve the club. For all the talk we hear about the stacked farm, it hasn't bore much fruit in terms of everyday players.

The Reds need to trade some of that stacked farm for some real proven commodities if they want to win soon. I think there is a false hope for 2010. I just don't see how the Reds will be any better next year without a major influx of major league talent.

I understand what your saying. You are playing Russian Roulette if you are counting on prospects to push you over the top. We have seen that first hand with both Homer and Bruce. Two of the most highly touted prospects in all of baseball who have taken their lumps big time. But on the other hand you often have your surprises. You have Votto playing well right from the get go. You have Cueto and even Volquez who nailed down starting rotation spots when given the chance.

You will also have some out of the blue surprises, mainly based upon small sample size, but the burst onto the scene. Your telling me that you wouldn't take 30 some games of .304/.413/.608 OPS 1.021. Im not saying Stubbs or Heisey or any other prospect for that matter will burst upon the scene putting up second half numbers like this, but Chris Dickerson did last year.

guttle11
07-16-2009, 12:09 PM
I hope so, but why is he still playing in AAA if that is the case? Walt just watched him for several days.

Big difference between being able to produce and getting the opportunity to produce.

Kc61
07-16-2009, 12:20 PM
If the Reds want to win this year they should be acquiring a veteran outfielder who can hit. A major player. If they do that, presumably they would keep Stubbs and Heisey down in AAA.

If the Reds want to plan more for the future, they should let Heisey and Stubbs come up and play as this season goes on.

The compromise would be to acquire a solid stop gap left fielder, keep Dickerson and WT in center, and play Heisey in right. He seems readier to hit than Stubbs at this moment, although Stubbs may project as a better all around guy eventually.

The final alternative is to keep the current outfield and let JHJ play more outfield to fill things out. This is not a recipe for a winning record this year.

Nasty_Boy
07-16-2009, 12:24 PM
I'm with OBM on this one... The farm system has given the Reds productive players at multiple positions for the first time in years. You have to expect a little bit of a gap between major league ready prospects and the prospects that need more seasoning. I'm very happy with what the farm system has brought the Reds, and I think we are going to see another nice wave of talent in the next year to year and a half.

traderumor
07-16-2009, 01:29 PM
The Reds have no one in the minors that could play everyday and be productive. That is my point.I thought your point was disproving the myth that the Reds have depth in the minors? :confused:

Jpup
07-16-2009, 05:30 PM
I thought your point was disproving the myth that the Reds have depth in the minors? :confused:

same thing. no depth, no one ready to play right now. kind of goes hand in hand doesn't it. :confused:

traderumor
07-16-2009, 05:50 PM
same thing. no depth, no one ready to play right now. kind of goes hand in hand doesn't it. :confused:No, its not the same thing, as I posted earlier responding to you. If you disagree, fine, but I submitted that it is not the same thing.

Jpup
07-16-2009, 05:55 PM
No, its not the same thing, as I posted earlier responding to you. If you disagree, fine, but I submitted that it is not the same thing.

If they had depth, they would have someone ready to play right now.

Highlifeman21
07-16-2009, 09:04 PM
The Reds have no one in the minors that could play everyday and be productive. That is my point.

Bingo

No one ready to play everyday and produce, no one behind the guys not ready to play everyday and produce.

That's my definition of lack of depth.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 09:05 PM
Bingo

No one ready to play everyday and produce, no one behind the guys not ready to play everyday and produce.

That's my definition of lack of depth.

Yeah, Chris Heisey is clearly not ready. That 1.000 OPS is unacceptable.

reds44
07-16-2009, 09:06 PM
Yeah, Chris Heisey is clearly not ready. That 1.000 OPS is unacceptable.
That meant so much for Rosales.....

Oh wait.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 09:08 PM
That meant so much for Rosales.....

Oh wait.

Ah yes. Heisey will clearly struggle because Rosales did. Two totally different plate approaches.

reds44
07-16-2009, 09:10 PM
Ah yes. Heisey will clearly struggle because Rosales did. Two totally different plate approaches.
Ah yes, that's clearly what I said. Just because he's hitting well right now doesn't make he is a lock to produce up here either. And do you really know what Heisey's plate approach is? You loved Rosales when he came up too.

They're prospects, very hit or miss.

edabbs44
07-16-2009, 09:12 PM
Yeah, Chris Heisey is clearly not ready. That 1.000 OPS is unacceptable.

50 PAs

reds44
07-16-2009, 09:13 PM
50 PAs
Bet you if he was struggling we'd hear this a lot more.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 09:15 PM
50 PAs

Actually, it's 350+ PA's between AA and AAA.

reds44
07-16-2009, 09:16 PM
A 24 year old lighting up AA, color me unimpressed.

OnBaseMachine
07-16-2009, 09:20 PM
A 24 year old lighting up AA, color me unimpressed.

That's fine, you don't have to be impressed but the scouts that have seen him sure are impressed.

Highlifeman21
07-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Yeah, Chris Heisey is clearly not ready. That 1.000 OPS is unacceptable.

In what, 50 PAs?

Talk to me when he's done it for at least 350 AAA PAs

Highlifeman21
07-16-2009, 09:30 PM
Actually, it's 350+ PA's between AA and AAA.

AA, big deal.

He's not gonna make the AA to The Show jump like Pujols (IIRC).

How many guys have a solid 300 PAs @ AA and flop @ The Show?

RED VAN HOT
07-16-2009, 11:45 PM
It is never certain how well a player will perform at the next level. In Heisey's case, however he has adjusted to each level quickly. To me it is foolish to talk about trading for an outfielder when you have a AAA guy who plays above average defense and is hitting .350 with 16 HRs....and you have a roster spot open due to one and possibly two OF injuries. If there is a more productive ML OF'er available who is not encumbered by a huge contract and is under team control for at least three more years, then go for it. Otherwise, at least give Heisey a shot instead of struggling with the likes of Tavares, Hairston, Rosales, Nix, and Gomes. That will not turn this team around.

I am frustrated by what appears to be a policy of requiring at least a year in AAA before advancing.

Jpup
07-17-2009, 11:45 AM
Again, the point has been made. The Reds have no depth. Heisey is the only hope. When you got 1 guy that gives you a little hope, that is not depth.

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2009, 11:48 AM
Again, the point has been made. The Reds have no depth. Heisey is the only hope. When you got 1 guy that gives you a little hope, that is not depth.

If you think every organization has an above average player ready at each position in case of an injury then you are wrong.

Jpup
07-17-2009, 11:49 AM
If you think every organization has an above average player ready at each position in case of an injury then you are wrong.

I'm not sure who said every position. I said any everyday players. They have nothing that's ready. Not one at every position. They have none at any postion.

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2009, 11:50 AM
I'm not sure who said every position. I said any everyday players. They have nothing that's ready. Not one at every position. They have none at any postion.

Again, that's your opinion. Some feel that Chris Heisey is ready.

Jpup
07-17-2009, 11:51 AM
Again, that's your opinion. Some feel that Chris Heisey is ready.

The Reds GM is not one of them. With that said, are you willing to admit that one player is not depth?

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2009, 11:53 AM
The Reds GM is not one of them. With that said, are you willing to admit that one player is not depth?

No, because I understand that even the best organizations don't always have an above average player waiting in case of an injury.

Jpup
07-17-2009, 11:57 AM
No, because I understand that even the best organizations don't always have an above average player waiting in case of an injury.

No one said above average. I said productive. :p: I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm just saying what I feel a lot of folks are starting to realize. The Reds have no depth on the farm.

OnBaseMachine
07-17-2009, 12:01 PM
The A's have gotten horrible production out of their first basemen and shortstops this season. Their farm system is rated as one of the top 2 or so in all of the majors but they must not have any depth since they didn't call up anyone to fill their holes.

joshnky
07-17-2009, 12:10 PM
This is a terrific thread, I can't believe I just read 50 posts of "Chris Heisey is ready"; "no he's not"; "yes he is"; "no he's not" ...

Jpup
07-17-2009, 12:12 PM
This is a terrific thread, I can't believe I just read 50 posts of "Chris Heisey is ready"; "no he's not"; "yes he is"; "no he's not" ...

That wasn't my point and I'm not sure what the post added to this "terrific" thread.

joshnky
07-17-2009, 12:19 PM
That wasn't my point and I'm not sure what the post added to this "terrific" thread.

Nothing... so I figured it fit well. :p:

However, to contribute my thoughts on the subject, the farm was loaded this time last year. The promotion of Homer, Hanigan, Bruce, Dickerson, Rosales, and Janish raided the MLB-ready talent and has left that gap to be filled in by others. Stubbs and Heisey others probably still need a few more AAA at bats before they're ready to make the transition. Given the turnover in AAA, you can't expect to have many experienced and ready prospects there because they simply haven't been there that long.