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View Full Version : Hernandez needs to go Byby....



bgwilly31
07-16-2009, 08:14 PM
What hernandez contract>? please tell me it was a one yr deal.

after this season is over hernandez needs to hit the road. Batting him the 4 hole like we were/are is just a joke.

BTW something most probably dont notice.

Tonights game his big lazy butt didnt slide again on a play at the plate. This is at least the 2nd time this year ive seen him make a half effort at a play atp. that ticks me off to no end. In this game the announcers caught on and even showed bailey going crazy waving his arms to GET DOWN. and he still didnt.

Not to mention all the other varibles. Like imo Hanigan can be a pretty good every day catcher and CHEAPER. hanigan is better with the bat. And he's better behind the plate.

Im not sure how this could be even be a question. bring up another minor leaguer to fill the back up roll. And send hernandez on his way.


Anybody disagree>?

Jones1
07-16-2009, 08:20 PM
Another worthless post! I love Reds fans..

bgwilly31
07-16-2009, 09:06 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

im basically expressing my belief that I hope hernandez does not return the reds next year. I'd like to see hanigan get a lot more time behind the plate towards the end of this season as well. i wouldnt be surprised if thats what we see either.

BluegrassRedleg
07-16-2009, 09:27 PM
I don't endorse failing to slide on a close play, but Hernandez has been a solid addition to the team. I can't say for sure whether Hanigan could keep his stats where they are as an everyday player.

Griffey012
07-16-2009, 09:38 PM
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

im basically expressing my belief that I hope hernandez does not return the reds next year. I'd like to see hanigan get a lot more time behind the plate towards the end of this season as well. i wouldnt be surprised if thats what we see either.

I am pretty sure he is not coming back to the reds next year. We got rid of Freel and had the O's pay us some cash I believe, basically Ramon is getting paid a million by us this year unless I am thinking wrongly. He has been everything we could expect out of him this year. Hanigan has gotten about half the ab's Hernandez has this year which is a lot for a backup catcher.

The thing that goes forgotten about Ramon is that he is hitting .340 with RISP, and has 14 two-out RBI. His OPS in both those situations is over .900. He has been one of our better guys at getting the runs across when givin the opportunity. Hanigan is batting .378 with nobody on base, but only .192 with runners on base. Unfortunately as good as Hanigan has played in his opportunities and with as bad as this team as been with RISP we cannot take out our 3rd best run producer.

Mutaman
07-16-2009, 10:56 PM
Ramon Hernandez is clearly not the problem with this team and I don't understand why people waste so much time complaining about him. Can't see the forest for the trees.

13 in hall
07-17-2009, 12:33 AM
Hernandez is doing as well as can be expected considering his age and all the innings he has logged as a catcher. He will not be back he has an 8.5 million dollar option with a one million dollar buyout so he will be gone. Now the interesting thing about his situation is that as of right now Elias sports ranking system has him grading out as a fringe A type free agent. So he plays out the season the Reds decline his option he leaves via free agency, and at worst the Reds get a top 40 draft pick for him next season.
Not bad considering what he has done and one must admit when Joey was out he more than did his job.

bleedsred
07-17-2009, 12:34 AM
Ramon Hernandez is clearly not the problem with this team and I don't understand why people waste so much time complaining about him. Can't see the forest for the trees.


I agree with you, I would think Reds fans would love having 2 capable catchers that can be well rested throughout the season and not have to worry about injuries back there(knock on wood)...plus Hernandez played 1b when Votto was down. If the Reds were in contention down to the last 4-5 weeks this would be a huge advantage.

The problems with the Reds are :

1. Injuries- EE, Votto, Edison, now Bruce

2. Not getting a SS or LF...Nix and Gomes are great backups and nice to have on the bench, but they are not long term starters, same goes for JHairston.

3.CF- signing WTaveras??? Not that Dickerson is the answer, but he could platoon with JHairston

4. Youthful struggles of Cueto(he has blown some five run leads along with a couple dismal starts.....and Bruce.

bleedsred
07-17-2009, 12:38 AM
Hernandez is doing as well as can be expected considering his age and all the innings he has logged as a catcher. He will not be back he has an 8.5 million dollar option with a one million dollar buyout so he will be gone. Now the interesting thing about his situation is that as of right now Elias sports ranking system has him grading out as a fringe A type free agent. So he plays out the season the Reds decline his option he leaves via free agency, and at worst the Reds get a top 40 draft pick for him next season.
Not bad considering what he has done and one must admit when Joey was out he more than did his job.

If that is the case with the draft pick(I thought if you bought a guy out you didn't get the pick) then that should make him an attractive addition for teams in need of a solid catcher that are still in the race.

Mutaman
07-17-2009, 12:55 AM
Despite the fact that 99% of the posts here complain about the offense or who bats where in the batting order, the Reds problem is the same as its always been: PITCHING!!

Look at the last 11 games, we've gone 3-8. Yet with decent pitching we could have gone 7-4, we'd be 4 games over .500, and everybody would be thrilled. The problem is not who catches, who bats where in the order, or even Willy. The problem is Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, Weathers and the rest of the staff aren't getting the job done.

Brandon4MVP
07-17-2009, 11:22 AM
Would you rather have Hernandez or Ryan Freel?

Fon Duc Tow
07-17-2009, 11:30 AM
Im not sure how this could be even be a question.

Anybody disagree>?

Hernandez is the vet, dude. Case closed, regardless of performance.

Jack Burton
07-17-2009, 11:40 AM
I agree that he is quite pathetic, pretty stupid to give up a prospect for him. Baltimore had Weiters so this Hernandez fella was beyond expendable.

corwinator3407
07-17-2009, 12:23 PM
He is batting .249..

sivman17
07-17-2009, 12:48 PM
Another worthless post! I love Reds fans..

worthless

camisadelgolf
07-17-2009, 01:12 PM
The Reds gave up Ryan Freel (who had negative trade value), Brandon Waring (who supposedly will never be able to hit Major League breaking pitches), and Justin Turner (a utility infielder who lacks skills) for millions of dollars and a veteran catcher who produces better than most other catchers in the league. If you ask an Orioles fan about the trade, I'm sure they feel ripped off.

And who would you suggest as an in-house replacement? Craig Tatum? Wilkin Castillo? Corky Miller? The Reds were in desperate need of catching, and acquiring Ramon Hernandez is one of the best moves Walt Jocketty has done since joining the club.

The Reds have lots of problems, but Ramon Hernandez isn't one of them. Hernandez would be an excellent backup on any team, and Ryan Hanigan would be an excellent starter on team. Unfortunately, politics (i.e. money, seniority) prevent their roles from being switched.

Fon Duc Tow
07-17-2009, 03:15 PM
Another worthless post! I love Reds fans..

Were you talking about your post?

Don't be so hard on yourself. Just try to contribute something next time, instead of just bashing long time posters.

You'll get the hang of it. :thumbup:

Stormy Weathers
07-17-2009, 05:23 PM
Hernandez is one of the few guys that ISNT the problem.

kfm
07-17-2009, 06:08 PM
I don't endorse failing to slide on a close play, but Hernandez has been a solid addition to the team. I can't say for sure whether Hanigan could keep his stats where they are as an everyday player.

Excellent post. I could not agree with you more. I hope Ryan is an everyday catcher since I don't expect Hernandez to be here next year and maybe not even to the end of this year, but I can't help but have doubts about a guy who it took until he was 29 to get up here. As we have seen with Laynce Nix, some guys look good because they only play a few times a week and then they are exposed. I think the overwhelming majority of major league managers would continue to play Hernandez over Hanigan. The reds have very good production at catcher right now, I don't get how this is such a sore subject with so many people.

bgwilly31
07-17-2009, 08:03 PM
.

The Reds have lots of problems, but Ramon Hernandez isn't one of them. Hernandez would be an excellent backup on any team, and Ryan Hanigan would be an excellent starter on team. Unfortunately, politics (i.e. money, seniority) prevent their roles from being switched.


This is correct.

hernandez is not the catcher that will help this team get to the playoffs.

THE REDS HAVE LOTS OF PROBLEMS>

I'm just naming one of them. Him being a wussy/lazy and not sliding at a play at home is one of THE many reasons we watch losers year in and year out.

bgwilly31
07-17-2009, 08:04 PM
Really thinking opposite here. It would be much easier to just list the Non-problems for the reds right now. maybe someone should start a thread and we can do that.

"What's not wrong with the reds" :laugh:

kfm
07-17-2009, 09:16 PM
This is correct.

hernandez is not the catcher that will help this team get to the playoffs.

THE REDS HAVE LOTS OF PROBLEMS>

I'm just naming one of them. Him being a wussy/lazy and not sliding at a play at home is one of THE many reasons we watch losers year in and year out.

Jay Bruce has him beat on not sliding.

sivman17
07-18-2009, 12:40 AM
if we didn't have hanigan i think everyone would like hernandez A LOT more. he is a solid hitter and he's decent in the clutch. BUT, when there is a more than capable everyday catcher sitting behind him then he has to be compared to him. hanigan is much better at throwing runners out and he's a much better hitter in general. the only knock on hanigan is that he doesn't get rbis. well, he bats in the 8 hole instead of the 2 hole where he belongs. half of hernandez's ABs were in the 5 or 6 hole.

Slyder
07-18-2009, 02:43 AM
The Reds gave up Ryan Freel (who had negative trade value), Brandon Waring (who supposedly will never be able to hit Major League breaking pitches), and Justin Turner (a utility infielder who lacks skills) for millions of dollars and a veteran catcher who produces better than most other catchers in the league. If you ask an Orioles fan about the trade, I'm sure they feel ripped off.

And who would you suggest as an in-house replacement? Craig Tatum? Wilkin Castillo? Corky Miller? The Reds were in desperate need of catching, and acquiring Ramon Hernandez is one of the best moves Walt Jocketty has done since joining the club.

The Reds have lots of problems, but Ramon Hernandez isn't one of them. Hernandez would be an excellent backup on any team, and Ryan Hanigan would be an excellent starter on team. Unfortunately, politics (i.e. money, seniority) prevent their roles from being switched.

Well there was one option on free agency that many people brought up... Josh Bard. Hitting .266, .352, .404 slug, for an ops of .756 for Washington for the vet min and save the assets. howd that look as a backup/costarter to Hannigan right now with this lineup as attrocious as this lineup is getting on base.

And to your last paragraph he certainly sounds like a problem (not by his doing mind you) but he MAY be keeping a better player (at this point in each's career) on the bench. He's more a symptom of the real problem but still unless you goto the heart of it you gotta treat the symptoms.

He's reverted to exactly what he was in Baltimore with even less power at this point. Maybe Freel keeps Tavares off this team and we package the additional money for something that could actually provide something for this team other than a below average (by mlb standards) AAA bats that continually get run out there everyday.

Brucey
07-18-2009, 10:19 AM
This is correct.

hernandez is not the catcher that will help this team get to the playoffs.

THE REDS HAVE LOTS OF PROBLEMS>

I'm just naming one of them. Him being a wussy/lazy and not sliding at a play at home is one of THE many reasons we watch losers year in and year out.

Hernandez has been one of the most important players on this team this year. He has managed to stay healthy, play out of position for a while, and is way better than what we had last year. Hernandez should be the least of your problems when other people on the team have performed a lot worse. I say pay him the money to play for us next year and have security at the catcher position.

GIDP
07-18-2009, 10:30 AM
It's pretty hard to dislike what hanigan brings to the team right now.

Even with big layoffs he still gets it done nightly.

Griffey012
07-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Does hitting in the clutch and producing with RISP not matter? Just cause Hernandez doesn't hit .400 with the bases empty and Hanigan does, doesn't mean Hanigan is producing more. Just look at the stats, they lay it all out there.

jimbo
07-19-2009, 11:23 AM
Ramon Hernandez is clearly not the problem with this team and I don't understand why people waste so much time complaining about him. Can't see the forest for the trees.


Agreed. I love having two solid catchers who both make a good argument for starting everyday. I think many Reds fans are too infatuated with youth. If you are not in your 20's and not making the league minimum, you are a washed worthless veteran.

Many teams would love to have a catching tandem of Hernandez and Hanigan. You get rid of one, suddenly Corky Miller is your backup.

texasdave
07-19-2009, 01:32 PM
Strong possibility that Hernandez will be visiting the DL soon. Dusty is quoted as saying it does not look good. Not to worry. Seabass will be rehabbing soon to pick up the Hernandez slack.

camisadelgolf
07-20-2009, 04:07 AM
It turns out that the reason Hernandez didn't slide is because of his knee injury. He's on the DL now. Does that change what you think of him?

jimbo
07-20-2009, 11:08 AM
This seriously hurts the team, IMO.

There goes our solid backup at 1B if Votto goes down, and a minor leaguer as a starting catcher if Hanigan gets hurt.

Plus Plus
07-20-2009, 11:13 AM
Tatum is being called up, not Miller.

And anyone who wants to go back in time and undo the trade is foolish. Keep in mind that Freel is on his third club since being traded, and was DFA-ed twice. That is not good.

Hernandez is a MLB quality catcher, something that the Reds haven't had since David Ross' magical season that will never be repeated, and for years before that. If you are of the mindset that panning for gold in the water fountain will produce a Josh Bard, be my guest to think that. Just keep in mind that more often than not you will get yourself a Paul Bako.

camisadelgolf
07-20-2009, 11:48 AM
Tatum is being called up, not Miller.

And anyone who wants to go back in time and undo the trade is foolish. Keep in mind that Freel is on his third club since being traded, and was DFA-ed twice. That is not good.

Hernandez is a MLB quality catcher, something that the Reds haven't had since David Ross' magical season that will never be repeated, and for years before that. If you are of the mindset that panning for gold in the water fountain will produce a Josh Bard, be my guest to think that. Just keep in mind that more often than not you will get yourself a Paul Bako.
I agree with your stance, but in limited playing time, Dave Ross is having his best season of his career (140 OPS+).