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BlastFurnace
07-21-2009, 11:05 AM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090720/SPT04/307200102/-1/nletter06/Phillips+screwup+draws+Dusty+s+ire?source=nletter-breakingnews

LOS ANGELES – It didn’t look like a big play at the time. Just a case of Brandon being Brandon.

Brandon Phillips was thrown out at second for the first out of the game Monday night. The Reds took a 3-0 lead on the same play.

But when you look back on what would become a 7-5 Reds loss to the Los Angeles Dodgers, it turned out to be a huge play.

"We should have gotten more than that in the first inning,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “You got to hustle on that ball there. It’s a totally different inning. That was a rally-killer for us.”

The Reds were facing Jason Schmidt, who was making his first start in 25 months, and it looked like he might not get out of the first inning.

Willy Taveras led off the game with a deep drive to left-center. He cruised in with a triple. Baker came out and argued that it was a home run. The umpires went in and looked at it on video replay. They eventually ruled it a triple.

Jerry Hairston Jr. doubled off the wall in left to get Taveras in. Joey Votto hit one off the wall in right for a long single. Hairston had to hold at third. Votto stole second. He went to third, and Hairston scored, on Russell Martin's throwing error.

Phillips hit a very catchable ball to right. It fell in front of Andre Ethier. Phillips, who did not break hard out of the batter’s box, was out at second. Votto scored to make it 3-0.

“I was happy to get the RBI in," Phillips said. “I was happy I finally did something with runners in scoring position. I hit the ball to the outfield. . I was like ‘damn, I missed it.’ I put my head down.

“I didn’t know he missed until I looked back up. I could’ve done worse and not gotten the run in at all.”

“I (messed) up." Phillips admitted. "That’s my second time this year not hustling. It won’t happen again. I (messed) up.”

Baker was still livid after the game.

“You’ve got to play hard all the time,” Baker said. “That was big, real big. We had him on the ropes. We killed the rally. . . . We end up losing by two runs.”Phillips has a history of this.

“Hey, man, we’ve all talked to him until we’re blue in the face,” Baker said. “This was going on long before I got here.”

The play became big quickly.

Micah Owings could not hold the early lead. He went five innings, allowing seven runs on nine hits.

It was the Reds' 10th straight loss in Dodger Stadium. They haven’t won in L.A. since Brandon Claussen beat the Dodgers July 28, 2005.

Schmidt would get out of the first without further damage.

“We were taking strikes and swinging at balls,” Baker said.

Rafael Furcal started Dodger first with a bunt double. He just popped it over Edwin Encarnacion's head. Russell Martin followed with an RBI single.

Micah Owings struck out Manny Ramirez on three pitches.

Ethier followed with a drive to right that Dickerson misplayed into a double. Casey Blake doubled in two runs to tie it. James Loney singled Blake in, and the Dodgers led 4-3.

“We score three in the first,” Owings said. “I’ve got to get us back to the dugout. I didn’t do it tonight.”

Owings got two quick outs to start the second. Martin singled. This time, Owings fell behind Ramirez 2-0.

Ramirez launched one to left for his 10th and it was 6-3.

The Reds would not get another hit until Phillips singled with two out in the fifth. He stole second. But Laynce Nix popped out to strand him.

Ethier made it a 7-3 game in the bottom of the fifth with his 19th home run of year, a no doubter to right.

The Reds scored two in the eighth. Votto led off with a walk. Phillips singled.

The Dodgers brought in Ramon Troncosco to face Nix. Nix hit one off second baseman Juan Castro’s glove. It was scored an error. Votto scored and Phillips went to third. Encarnacion hit into a double play. Phillips scored but the air was out of the rally.

flyersbaseball
07-21-2009, 11:14 AM
So why doesn't Dusty sit him for awhile to get point across?

bounty37h
07-21-2009, 11:41 AM
^no kidding, dusty sounds like a baby whining that “Hey, man, we’ve all talked to him until we’re blue in the face,” Baker said. “This was going on long before I got here.”
Sounds like a kid who knows he stinks, but trying to pass the buck along. Your the manager dude, it is on you.

flyersbaseball
07-21-2009, 11:43 AM
^no kidding, dusty sounds like a baby whining that “Hey, man, we’ve all talked to him until we’re blue in the face,” Baker said. “This was going on long before I got here.”
Sounds like a kid who knows he stinks, but trying to pass the buck along. Your the manager dude, it is on you.

My thoughts exactly, 20,000 fine and sit him for 3 games

texasdave
07-21-2009, 12:03 PM
This kinda reminds of Dusty's "It's not my team' quote from last year. How does he expect the players to take responsibility if he doesn't? I really don't care what bad habits Brandon had before Baker got here. Baker has been in control for a year and a half. Talk is cheap. Nothing has changed. It's on you, dude! Phillips would sit the rest of the road trip if it was up to me. Not like this team is going anywhere. Someone please wake up Walt and let him know this team has issues he may want to address, since the manager does not seem to want to do his job.

Jharb74
07-21-2009, 12:03 PM
I'd never say Jerry Narron was a good Manager, but he would have sat Phillips. Of course his next move would have been to play Griffey at 2nd, or some other weird move.

flash
07-21-2009, 12:46 PM
It is only my opinion, but Phillips should have not gone out to play in the bottom of the first. Dusty didn't have to rant and rave at him. he only needed to turn to Sutton and say, "Get your glove." Actions speak louder than words.

It isn't just Phillips baserunning miscue. It is evident all over the place. On Rosales double the other night I could plainly see Berry windmilling him to third. Rosales was busy watching the play over his shoulder. He never looked at Berry once. I can understand people questioning Berry's desision, but It is not Rosales job during the play. There have also been times on singles when you can plainly see the players watching the play over their shoulders while running to third. it is especially telling when the annoucers talk about good baserunning when you can plainly see it is horrible base-running.

If anything gets Baker fired this will be it.

Forget about Brandon being Brandon. It is time he started being the multi-year multi-million dollar player he is paid to be.

mrherd05
07-21-2009, 12:50 PM
I would be willing to say that 95 out of 100 MLB players who hit high lazy fly balls to right field, would run the same way BP did last night..BUT....this cant keep happening.

I love BP, but he needs to get a kick in the ass.

Even on ground balls, imagine how many more times he would be on base if a bad shortstop or 3rd baseman came up firing on a easy grounder because they feared he could beat it out, that extra pressure could get him on base 5 to 10 more times a season.

I am a big fan of BP, but someone needs to step up and get his ass in gear, and that lies on Crusty. OBviously there is no respect there, or very little, this has happened before and still not fixed.

redhawkfish
07-21-2009, 01:08 PM
It gets tiresome to see ball players keep doing it. I was screaming at Votto through the TV for grandstanding watching his ball off the wall right before that, and then Brandon proceeds to surpass his showboating tenfold. This is a bad team!

thorn
07-21-2009, 01:15 PM
With the injuries we have now and the lack of quality players to play 2B, no way I sit him now. Besides, he ain't the only one to do this stuff, it happens everywhere. Why wasn't Votto on 2B on his hit? I don't accept the execuse he held up at first because of Harrison, he should have know if it was a hit Harrison would have at least been on 3rd, not stayed on 2nd. Did anyone see Manny last night? Yea I know, he's not a Red and no one cares, but it happens. A good but chewing is all that is needed, otherwise you apply the same standard to all the members of the team.

Slyder
07-21-2009, 01:16 PM
How many times he going to let Phillips do it before he actually punishes him?

flash
07-21-2009, 01:25 PM
Don't want to pile on Phillips, but did anyone see the sacrifice the Dodgers tried in the eighth. Hanigan threw out Loney at third. Hanigan made a good quick throw then it looked like EE wanted to throw to first, but didn't. The camera didn't show it , but was anyone even there? That is Phillips's responsibility.

BigPoppa
07-21-2009, 01:35 PM
It is only my opinion, but Phillips should have not gone out to play in the bottom of the first. Dusty didn't have to rant and rave at him. he only needed to turn to Sutton and say, "Get your glove." Actions speak louder than words.


+ 1. if Dusty is "blue in the face" then try something besides yak yak, dude.

I like BP, but he wants to be the leader, so it's up to him to set the tone.

BigPoppa
07-21-2009, 01:40 PM
It isn't just Phillips baserunning miscue. It is evident all over the place. On Rosales double the other night I could plainly see Berry windmilling him to third. Rosales was busy watching the play over his shoulder. He never looked at Berry once. I can understand people questioning Berry's desision, but It is not Rosales job during the play.


Here, I gotta disagree with you. I know the exact play you're talking about (I commented on it in the game thread) and if Rosales had tried to take third, he would have been out by 10 steps. Berry's judgements impress me not. If I'm a Reds baserunner, I'm thinking self preservation. We don't get enough guys on base to let Berry squander them.

BigJohn
07-21-2009, 01:45 PM
Everyone ripped me for suggesting Phillips be traded. :confused:

GIDP
07-21-2009, 02:12 PM
Everyone ripped me for suggesting Phillips be traded. :confused:
we mainly ripped you because you said janish was just as good

GIDP
07-21-2009, 02:13 PM
consider me completely surprised he didnt try to blame someone else for Phillips screwing up.

I expected him to say "yea Hatcher should be making sure he knows what is going on out their"

Then again Dusty is unpredictable anyways.

mrherd05
07-21-2009, 02:19 PM
You still should be ripped for saying Phillips should be traded.

BLEEDS
07-21-2009, 02:57 PM
This is another reason BP isn't worth his contract.

He always has this "me first" attitude lingering underneath the stuff he THINKS he's supposed to say.

Someone in another thread noted when he got chewed out for swinging on a 3-0 pitch where he "allegedly" missed a take sign, and his comment was "well it would have been pretty special if it had been a hit".

His is NOT a team-first guy, and this guy is supposed to be the team leader and cleanup guy?!?! Oh yeah, and he's set to make $6.75, $11 and $12 mill the next 3 years...

Gimme a Break.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
07-21-2009, 02:58 PM
You still should be ripped for saying Phillips should be traded.

No way, trade him before his contract becomes a HUGE albatross...

You think it's hard to trade a league average pitcher making $11/$12M dollars, see how hard it is to trade a league average bat, even if it's accompanied by a GG at 2nd base, making the same $11M...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

bounty37h
07-21-2009, 03:37 PM
Everyone ripped me for suggesting Phillips be traded. :confused:

Everyone still questions you for that, dont worry.

mroby85
07-21-2009, 04:11 PM
Everyone still questions you for that, dont worry.

X2, a player not running out a ball in the 1st inning of a game doesn't really justify trading him. Especially the way he busts it in the field, and is the 2nd best bat in this offense. (not saying that will win any awards, lol)

Kingspoint
07-21-2009, 06:55 PM
It was a bone-headed play. Phillips should be berated publicly for it because berating him privately obviously hasn't gotten the point across.

It set the table for the rest of the game and the rest of the series. They were ready to yank Schmidt, and if Phillips was on 2nd, the pressure is different, he's pitching from a different angle to the next 3 batters....everything changes. One more hit after Phillips and another run scored might have started the relief pitchers to come in for the Dodgers. Everything changes because of some stupid prima-donna Griffey-esque move.

But, you know what Baker? Griffey and Dunn weren't held accountable for it, so why should Phillips?

Kingspoint
07-21-2009, 07:02 PM
Everyone ripped me for suggesting Phillips be traded. :confused:

Only a weak manager gets rid of an employee for something a decent manager can fix.

Dusty's just showing once again, that there's nothing special about him in the Managerial department.

There isn't any area where he's gotten the team in the last two years to perform above expectations. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry could do what Dusty has done with this club. The sooner Castellini recognizes this, the sooner this team can start thinking about playoffs.

Playoffs? Dusty can't even get this team to play .500.....5th place in a 6-team Division. If they were in a normal Division of 5 teams, they'd be in the cellar.

flash
07-21-2009, 07:12 PM
.


Here, I gotta disagree with you. I know the exact play you're talking about (I commented on it in the game thread) and if Rosales had tried to take third, he would have been out by 10 steps. Berry's judgements impress me not. If I'm a Reds baserunner, I'm thinking self preservation. We don't get enough guys on base to let Berry squander them.

I'm not diagreeing with you about the end result. The thing I am worrying about is the fact that the Reds are not paying any attention to the coaches. So Berry is wrong, the decision is his. It is something high school players are coached on. The third base coach is there for exactly that purpose.

kfm
07-21-2009, 07:18 PM
I'd never say Jerry Narron was a good Manager, but he would have sat Phillips. Of course his next move would have been to play Griffey at 2nd, or some other weird move.

Narron would not have done anything to Phillips. The only person Narron ever disciplined for anything was Edwin. He would sit Edwin if he made an error and he yanked him for not running out a ball Edwin thought was a foulball. He did nothing while Dunn and Griffey did exactly what Phillips has done. I hate to hurt the whole team by sitting phillips but doing it, but the truth is this is who he is and I don't think anything is going to change him.

Kingspoint
07-21-2009, 07:30 PM
Griffey and Dunn set the tone, and the other players followed. Phillips and EE learned from the best.

kfm
07-21-2009, 07:37 PM
Griffey and Dunn set the tone, and the other players followed. Phillips and EE learned from the best.

Phillips die was cast long before he came to the Reds. This is just one of the few situations where what the Indians said about him rears it ugly head. Having said that, I will take production and talent with the occaisional lapse over pure hustle every day of the week and twice on Sundays. We watched the Reds everyday so we notice when our players do this, but having watched my fair share of baseball, sadly this is the state of the game.

Kingspoint
07-21-2009, 07:46 PM
Phillips die was cast long before he came to the Reds. This is just one of the few situations where what the Indians said about him rears it ugly head. Having said that, I will take production and talent with the occaisional lapse over pure hustle every day of the week and twice on Sundays. We watched the Reds everyday so we notice when our players do this, but having watched my fair share of baseball, sadly this is the state of the game.

It's all that money. Hard for someone to take instruction who makes so much money. Not saying that I wouldn't be the same way given the circumstances. Probably not, though, since I'm much older and come from a different time. Nor have I hustled as much as those older than me.

Every generation gets lazier and lazier and lazier. I'm extremely lazy compared to two generations before me, and two generations after me are much much lazier than I am.

Football was better to watch 3 decades ago, basketball was better to watch 3 decades ago, and baseball was better to watch 3 decades ago. Tennis was better to watch 3 decades ago, but that was because of the change in rackets so there's no net-play any more.

MBZags
07-21-2009, 08:07 PM
Phillips is not in the starting lineup tonight.

Kingspoint
07-21-2009, 08:11 PM
Phillips is not in the starting lineup tonight.

Slap that wrist.

Stupid move.

Baker is a poor manager. He's supposed to have "teaching" tools. That's a teaching tool from the Age of Reasoning in 1610 England.

Psychology has advanced a little since then, Dusty. You should try taking a course.

mroby85
07-21-2009, 08:48 PM
Slap that wrist.

Stupid move.

Baker is a poor manager. He's supposed to have "teaching" tools. That's a teaching tool from the Age of Reasoning in 1610 England.

Psychology has advanced a little since then, Dusty. You should try taking a course.

I agree with the move. He's talked to him a couple times, it hasn't worked, he has to do something. Personally I would fine him and take some $ instead of taking him out of the lineup. As I wouldve when he purposely ignored the 3-0 take sign in Kansas City. If you don't correct this and baby him though like Marvin Lewis did, it will just turn into another Chad Johnson situation.

Kingspoint
07-21-2009, 08:59 PM
I agree with the move. He's talked to him a couple times, it hasn't worked, he has to do something. Personally I would fine him and take some $ instead of taking him out of the lineup. As I wouldve when he purposely ignored the 3-0 take sign in Kansas City. If you don't correct this and baby him though like Marvin Lewis did, it will just turn into another Chad Johnson situation.

Babying anybody doesn't work for anything.

He's a man. Treat him like a man.

He has a lot of pride. If it's a "big" problem, as Dusty's comments indicate that it is, then his pride needs to be broken before he's ready to accept that change needs to be made. Sitting him down won't humble him. It will just make him dig his heels in deeper.

BluegrassRedleg
07-21-2009, 09:27 PM
I'm glad Dusty was upset, but I'd rather see some action than words in the paper. I often wonder what this team could accomplish with a Lou Piniella type at the helm (faults and all; see the Cubs this year) instead of Dusty Baker. I would be willing to bet some of the BS like Hernandez not sliding last week and Phillips half-assing it lsat night would be over.

BluegrassRedleg
07-21-2009, 09:30 PM
You still should be ripped for saying Phillips should be traded.

Disagree. I wouldn't necessarily trade him (unless the offer was way too good to pass up) but I think many Reds fans vastly overestimate his worth.

Captain Hook
07-21-2009, 09:45 PM
I'm glad Dusty was upset, but I'd rather see some action than words in the paper. I often wonder what this team could accomplish with a Lou Piniella type at the helm (faults and all; see the Cubs this year) instead of Dusty Baker. I would be willing to bet some of the BS like Hernandez not sliding last week and Phillips half-assing it lsat night would be over.

Phillips benched tonight!!!


I think this move is pretty poor imo.There have been a number of chances this year that Baker could have benched BP.All of these chances came at time when the Reds were in a lot better position then they are right now.If Baker was a better manager this would have been taken care of earlier in the season instead of now when the team could really use BP in the lineup.

I don't excuse Brandon for what he did and I think that it is important that something is done.Its just that with this, it isn't better late then never.

Hey Meat
07-21-2009, 09:47 PM
Yeah, but Brandon was smiling about it just like he did on his fly to right when Hart made a fantastic catch. What the @$%^ are you smiling about Phillips?

Captain Hook
07-21-2009, 09:56 PM
Yeah, but Brandon was smiling about it just like he did on his fly to right when Hart made a fantastic catch. What the @$%^ are you smiling about Phillips?

Make no mistake.It makes me mad.

Do we really think that the only time Phillips dogs it is when a guy drops a sure out?That would be amazingly bad luck if it was.Lets face it.This happens all of the time and the only reason something was done this time is that it hurt the team and it was there for all of us to see.This is just Dusty covering his own butt.

Hey Meat
07-21-2009, 10:06 PM
Brandon Phillips is all show. The facade is wearing off. I knew that he was a primadonna when when we picked him up. I am tired of seeing his base running gaffes. I am glad that it makes someone else mad, because my wife thinks I am the only Reds fan cursing the TV or throwing the XM remote in the car when he does stuff like that. Hopefully he gets the picture although I think that is highly unlikely.

Captain Hook
07-21-2009, 10:21 PM
Do we really think that the only time Phillips dogs it is when a guy drops a sure out?That would be amazingly bad luck if it was.Lets face it.This happens all of the time and the only reason something was done this time is that it hurt the team and it was there for all of us to see.This is just Dusty covering his own butt.

I hate to quote myself but I just read this about Phillips' take on being benched.I think he handled it ok but this one part really makes me laugh.Heres the link.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog:e57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost:19492ad5-f314-4b8f-b3a7-b93d8af0f2ce&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Griffey012
07-21-2009, 10:25 PM
I'll take a Brandon Phillips not hustling on a play instead of an Adam Rosales who goes 100% every play.

Riddle me this, Rosales gets more playing time than he should because he hustles, but doesn't produce. Phillips produces and RBI doesn't hustle, and gets benched. So.................... hustling is more important than actually producing according to Dusty.

Don't get me wrong I am in no way a fan of a lack of hustle, but why does Phillips always get singled out I feel like. Not everyone on the reds runs out every fly ball, not everyone slides on every play when they should (Bruce), but they dont get punished or berated like Phillips does. Phillips is no TO, he is no Artest, he is not a cancer, the guy is always having fun and almost ALWAYS hustling, he just slips up a couple times a year and a huge deal is made out of it.

GIDP
07-21-2009, 10:29 PM
I'll take a Brandon Phillips not hustling on a play instead of an Adam Rosales who goes 100% every play.

Riddle me this, Rosales gets more playing time than he should because he hustles, but doesn't produce. Phillips produces and RBI doesn't hustle, and gets benched. So.................... hustling is more important than actually producing according to Dusty.

Don't get me wrong I am in no way a fan of a lack of hustle, but why does Phillips always get singled out I feel like. Not everyone on the reds runs out every fly ball, not everyone slides on every play when they should (Bruce), but they dont get punished or berated like Phillips does. Phillips is no TO, he is no Artest, he is not a cancer, the guy is always having fun and almost ALWAYS hustling, he just slips up a couple times a year and a huge deal is made out of it.

Rosales plays maybe once a week.

Griffey012
07-21-2009, 10:33 PM
Rosales plays maybe once a week.

But every potential opportunity to give anyone a day off Dusty can he gets Rosales in, why can't Janish play, he hits just as well...which is not very good.


An on a side note, we have lost the last 10 games Rosales has started...

BluegrassRedleg
07-21-2009, 10:36 PM
Brandon Phillips is all show. The facade is wearing off. I knew that he was a primadonna when when we picked him up. I am tired of seeing his base running gaffes. I am glad that it makes someone else mad, because my wife thinks I am the only Reds fan cursing the TV or throwing the XM remote in the car when he does stuff like that. Hopefully he gets the picture although I think that is highly unlikely.

Mistakes out of effort are one thing; I cannot tolerate mistakes of that variety. I'm right there with you on that.

That being said, I hope he can turn the corner and mature as a player because he can be a big part of this team if/when it ever turns the corner.

GIDP
07-21-2009, 10:39 PM
But every potential opportunity to give anyone a day off Dusty can he gets Rosales in, why can't Janish play, he hits just as well...which is not very good.


An on a side note, we have lost the last 10 games Rosales has started...
Rosales has consistantly been a better hitter in the minors than Janish thats probably why.

Griffey012
07-21-2009, 10:43 PM
Rosales has consistantly been a better hitter in the minors than Janish thats probably why.

And Brandon Larson was a consistently better hitter than everyone in the minors.

kfm
07-21-2009, 10:44 PM
Ok, so people were mad because Dusty only talked to Phillips in private before, and now he has benched him and people still don't like this move. Can someone tell me what is proper move in this case. So now Dusty has talked to him in private, and ripped him in the paper and now benched him. Please please please tell me what is the proper move and in what order, and please refrain from "I would change his attitude." No, tell me exactly what Dusty should have done.

GIDP
07-21-2009, 10:45 PM
And Brandon Larson was a consistently better hitter than everyone in the minors.

I agree Janish should play more but you are making a big deal about a few ABs.

DTCromer
07-21-2009, 10:46 PM
So why doesn't Dusty sit him for awhile to get point across?

Why would we want to consistently sit one of our best players? This is the majors. . . not little league baseball. Money and talent rules everything.

I just hope one of these days Bruce walks out of the box.

DTCromer
07-21-2009, 10:48 PM
Griffey and Dunn set the tone, and the other players followed. Phillips and EE learned from the best.

Dunn was lazy, but the guy has talent. No big deal if he doesn't bust his butt. It's a big deal to miss third base, misplay ball after ball in the outfield, and we want to make him one of our highest paid players on a small market team.

Griffey012
07-21-2009, 10:50 PM
I agree Janish should play more but you are making a big deal about a few ABs.

It's more so I have just grown tired of watching Rosales, his "hustle" which shows up the remaining players on the field even if they do hustle irks me almost as much as watching Phillips not run out a hit.

And I couldn't miss the opportunity to reference Larson

Captain Hook
07-21-2009, 10:53 PM
Ok, so people were mad because Dusty only talked to Phillips in private before, and now he has benched him and people still don't like this move. Can someone tell me what is proper move in this case. So now Dusty has talked to him in private, and ripped him in the paper and now benched him. Please please please tell me what is the proper move and in what order, and please refrain from "I would change his attitude." No, tell me exactly what Dusty should have done.

Dusty blew it the first time it happened and nothing was done.All this says is that sometime, maybe when you need a day off anyways, you might get benched if you make a bone headed mistake.I admit that it sends a message.Just not a very strong one.I shouldn't expect anything more from Dusty.

Griffey012
07-21-2009, 10:54 PM
Ok, so people were mad because Dusty only talked to Phillips in private before, and now he has benched him and people still don't like this move. Can someone tell me what is proper move in this case. So now Dusty has talked to him in private, and ripped him in the paper and now benched him. Please please please tell me what is the proper move and in what order, and please refrain from "I would change his attitude." No, tell me exactly what Dusty should have done.

Benching a player, any player, is fine for not hustling, it is just that some players get singled out such as Phillips, while others get free rides. If you are going to bench a player for not hustling, then bench everyone for not hustling when it occurs. It seems like Phillips always has the example set on him, and everyone else gets free bee's. And if the ball is caught Phillips never gets sat down, it should be a one way street, or no street at all.

GIDP
07-21-2009, 10:56 PM
Rosales is actually out hitting Janish now btw

sivman17
07-22-2009, 01:10 AM
I AM SOOOO SICK ABOUT HEARING ABOUT B PHIL'S MISTAKE! I turned off the radio today while in the car because I couldn't stand listening to them about his stupid mistake. Yeah, he should have made it to 2nd, but he also could have struck out, or flew out, or grounded out, etc. He had an RBI, just as he said, and he helped the team out. There is no reason for him to be benched. Get over it and let the 2nd best hitter on the team play.

Captain Hook
07-22-2009, 01:47 AM
Its nice to see that the team could rally behind their manager after he stepped up and sat the star player for not hustling.They are really focused tonight.

kfm
07-22-2009, 07:22 AM
Dusty blew it the first time it happened and nothing was done.All this says is that sometime, maybe when you need a day off anyways, you might get benched if you make a bone headed mistake.I admit that it sends a message.Just not a very strong one.I shouldn't expect anything more from Dusty.

So you don't have an actual answer. Dusty has talked to him, fined him, chastised him, and benched him. Do you have an actual answer as to what should be done and in what order? Since you think he blew it, you must have an actual thought as to what should have been done, and I would love to hear it.

bounty37h
07-22-2009, 12:24 PM
It's more so I have just grown tired of watching Rosales, his "hustle" which shows up the remaining players on the field even if they do hustle irks me almost as much as watching Phillips not run out a hit.

And I couldn't miss the opportunity to reference Larson

I have never understood those that think hustling is showing the other players up, it is the one thing all players can do equally.

Captain Hook
07-22-2009, 12:49 PM
So you don't have an actual answer. Dusty has talked to him, fined him, chastised him, and benched him. Do you have an actual answer as to what should be done and in what order? Since you think he blew it, you must have an actual thought as to what should have been done, and I would love to hear it.

Dusty should not be given the chance to do anything.He should have been fire a long time ago.That's my actual answer.

kfm
07-22-2009, 07:38 PM
Dusty should not be given the chance to do anything.He should have been fire a long time ago.That's my actual answer.

I didnt think you had one. Criticism is so much easier than an actual thought.

mlh1981
07-22-2009, 08:36 PM
Brandon Phillips has his fair share of issues, but he's been one of the few guys on offense who has performed with any sort of consistency. They didn't lose that game because of his lack of effort. They lost it because they were facing a damn good team who took advantage of a pitcher who wasn't being aggressive. Owings deserves more grief for his pathetic showing than Phillips does.

kfm
07-22-2009, 08:46 PM
Brandon Phillips has his fair share of issues, but he's been one of the few guys on offense who has performed with any sort of consistency. They didn't lose that game because of his lack of effort. They lost it because they were facing a damn good team who took advantage of a pitcher who wasn't being aggressive. Owings deserves more grief for his pathetic showing than Phillips does.

Phillips is an outstanding player who is very productive. While I am not happy about his latest issue, at this point it is being blown completely out of proportion. To want to trade him for this reason, is just not very smart. I know many Reds fans want a team full of Ryan Freels, Chris Stynes, and Adam Rosales. Those teams would hustle like crazy, but they would not win. When this team finally turns it around, Brandon will be one of the reasons they do. Give me talent and production and I can learn to live with the rest, I'll take a team full of Brandon Phillips, now that would be one heck of a team.

Griffey012
07-22-2009, 09:33 PM
I have never understood those that think hustling is showing the other players up, it is the one thing all players can do equally.

I am not saying that hustling is showing up the other players, there are plenty of guys who hustle their a**es off in this league and some we have seen here before, but they run out to the field with their team, and they run around the bases like major leaguers.

Take Ryan Freel for example, he hustled like no other, but he didn't get extra attention for hustling, he just hustled, yeah he would sacrifice his body, but he didnt draw the "hey look at that guy" attention that Rosales gets for going beyond what it normal hustle.

It is similar to as when players like Manny, Milton Bradley, and other make themselves known and draw attention for ridiculously lazy plays. It is a way of making yourself stand out from the rest of the guys you play with for 162 games a year.

GIDP
07-22-2009, 09:35 PM
I will never bash a player for running non stop.

Griffey012
07-22-2009, 09:36 PM
I will never bash a player for running non stop.

I am not bashing him, but you have to admit he draws extra attention to himself with his "hustling" antics.


But then again maybe he stands out because everyone else is so lazy I really don't know. The moral is I just don't like watching guys stand out from the other players on the team because of things outside of performance, unless its the case everyone else really is just that lazy then its ok.

GIDP
07-22-2009, 11:02 PM
I am not bashing him, but you have to admit he draws extra attention to himself with his "hustling" antics.


But then again maybe he stands out because everyone else is so lazy I really don't know. The moral is I just don't like watching guys stand out from the other players on the team because of things outside of performance, unless its the case everyone else really is just that lazy then its ok.

Its a shame someone running can bring extra attention. You would think not running woudl do it but damn that guy for doing something that isnt that hard to do.

Griffey012
07-22-2009, 11:42 PM
Its a shame someone running can bring extra attention. You would think not running woudl do it but damn that guy for doing something that isnt that hard to do.

Maybe I am missing your point, maybe you are missing mine. Whether it is 24 guys not hustling and one is, or whether it is 1 guy going above to draw attention to himself, we don't have all 25 guys on the same page. We have some that bust their butt, we have some that jog around, and we have some that just don't really show any emotion. Either way we don't have 25 guys that always play like every game means something and that is an issue.

bounty37h
07-24-2009, 12:17 PM
I am not bashing him, but you have to admit he draws extra attention to himself with his "hustling" antics.


But then again maybe he stands out because everyone else is so lazy I really don't know. The moral is I just don't like watching guys stand out from the other players on the team because of things outside of performance, unless its the case everyone else really is just that lazy then its ok.

I dont consider it bringing extra attention to himself at all actually. I think your follow up is prob closer to the real situation.