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View Full Version : Poll: which Reds do you want back for 2010?



Will M
07-22-2009, 02:23 PM
Simple poll. Who do you want back for 2010?
You may vote for as many players as you like.

I left a few minor guys off the poll. Guys like Castillo & Richar who are basically AAA fodder.

Benihana
07-22-2009, 02:26 PM
Where's the poll?

Homer Bailey
07-22-2009, 02:34 PM
No Stubbs or Heisey on there?

Will M
07-22-2009, 02:36 PM
Where's the poll?

it took a while to build it as there were a lot of choices.

I voted to keep most of the youth & unload just about every veteran except for Phillips (still young), Gomes (still young) & Rhodes (keep one vet in the pen).
I have seen enough of Edwin at 3B.
I have seen enough of Homer ( i know there are a lot of opinions on Homer).
I am willing to keep guys like Janish, Sutton, Rosales, etc as they could make decent cheap reserves.

Will M
07-22-2009, 02:37 PM
No Stubbs or Heisey on there?

I left off anyone who hasn't placed in the bigs yet. I am going to assume guys in AA/AAA are keepers as we stink and can't see the Reds trading prospects for veterans.

Maybe there could be a minor league thread on which prospects to keep and which to trade.

Will M
07-22-2009, 03:01 PM
i thought these poll results would turn out interesting.

So far with 10 votes the young studs are polling 90%+ and the old expensive guys (ie Gonzo, Hernandez) are polling 0. No suprise.

Edwin is at 50% split between the lovers and the haters.

Gomes is at 70%. ORG members like the OPS+ north of 150.

Harang is 50%. split between the tear it down & the keep the workhorse crowd.

No love for guitar man (10%).

Micah, Homer & Maloney are all ~50%. I thought Micah and Maloney would get less votes. After last night I'm suprised people still like Homer. He's got the arm but something is missing right now.

A suprise for me is that 70% want Cordero back. I suspect people are sick of losing and are willing to pay bucks for talent.

bucksfan2
07-22-2009, 03:16 PM
FWIW I have Encarnacion in the "want back" category and Im not his biggest fan.

TheNext44
07-22-2009, 03:32 PM
I voted to keep Owings and Bailey, but I would like to see both converted to relievers. I think it is clear that neither has the stuff or makeup to be a legitimate starter, but Owings could make a solid long man, and Bailey would be a killer closer, ala Papelbon. I think the time has come for the Reds to finally admit that.

I also voted to keep Arroyo and not Harang, but that is only if the Reds can get a solid SS or a power bat for Harang. I think there isn't enough difference in production between the two, but there is enough difference between what the two could bring in via a trade, to keep Harang over Arroyo.

dfs
07-22-2009, 03:37 PM
Everybody's on the table to be traded. I'm not dealing unless I get value in return. They are not going to outright anybody on that list with the possible exception of Mike Lincoln after he is healthy.

Chip R
07-22-2009, 03:39 PM
No one voted for Willie? Free Willie!

Highlifeman21
07-22-2009, 03:51 PM
I figured I'd be in the minority on the Daynce Mix, Laynce Nix

Sea Ray
07-22-2009, 04:17 PM
Bailey would be a killer closer, ala Papelbon. I think the time has come for the Reds to finally admit that.



I don't see it. He doesn't throw enough strikes. First and foremost a closer needs to throw strikes and that's the biggest hole in Homer's game right now

Highlifeman21
07-22-2009, 04:24 PM
I don't see it. He doesn't throw enough strikes. First and foremost a closer needs to throw strikes and that's the biggest hole in Homer's game right now

I think if Homer was allowed to have the mentality to just rear back and sling it, it might do him a heck of a lot better than trying to nibble and pick at corners and certain areas of the strike zone.

Homer doesn't throw strikes b/c he tries to miss bats. Maybe if he didn't try to miss bats but rather challenged bats, he'd be the cheaper closer we could use for the next 3+ years.

Jpup
07-22-2009, 04:45 PM
Mike Lincoln for 2010!

C'mon people jump on the bandwagon. ;)

BuckeyeRedleg
07-22-2009, 04:50 PM
37 people so far have responded.

0 for Gonzalez

1 for Taveras
1 for Hernandez
1 for Lincoln

3 for Hairston, Jr.
5 for Weathers

Chip R
07-22-2009, 05:02 PM
Mike Lincoln for 2010!

C'mon people jump on the bandwagon. ;)


He's already here for 2010.

REDSEER
07-22-2009, 05:34 PM
I really feel that Hairston Jr. could be a valuable member of the 2010 team....







as long as he's coming off of the bench with the occasional spot start. Hairston has value because he can play up the middle in the infield and is at least somewhat competent at all three OF positions.

But, I agree, a team that starts Jerry Hairston Jr. every day and bats him second is not going to be a very successful team.

Jpup
07-22-2009, 05:45 PM
He's already here for 2010.

and rightfully so. :cool:

reds44
07-22-2009, 05:50 PM
Cueto
Volquez
Cordero
Herrera
Burton
Fisher
Roenicke

Votto
Bruce
Edwin
Phillips
Hanigan
Dickerson

The rest can go, and really I wouldn't lose sleep over Roenicke, Burton, or Fisher being gone either.

Kc61
07-22-2009, 05:58 PM
The support for Bailey, Owings, Gomes, and Burton are -- um -- surprising.

Gomes really needs to DH. The other three - well, surprising.

Homer Bailey
07-22-2009, 06:02 PM
Cueto
Volquez
Cordero
Herrera
Burton
Fisher
Roenicke

Votto
Bruce
Edwin
Phillips
Hanigan
Dickerson

The rest can go, and really I wouldn't lose sleep over Roenicke, Burton, or Fisher being gone either.

So enter next year with 2 starting pitchers? Interesting strategy.

reds44
07-22-2009, 06:04 PM
I assume we would trade Harang and Arroyo for something, and we sign some players. By your logic, I only want 13 players playing for the Reds next year.

Homer Bailey
07-22-2009, 06:20 PM
I assume we would trade Harang and Arroyo for something, and we sign some players. By your logic, I only want 13 players playing for the Reds next year.

Do you think we will get better pitchers in the Harang, Bailey, Owings, and Arroyo trades than those 4? Wouldn't that pretty much defeat the purpose of the trade for the other team?

What free agent pitchers will be more affordable/better than Harang and Arroyo?

reds44
07-22-2009, 06:21 PM
Do you think we will get better pitchers in the Harang, Bailey, Owings, and Arroyo trades than those 4? Wouldn't that pretty much defeat the purpose of the trade for the other team?

What free agent pitchers will be more affordable/better than Harang and Arroyo?
Bailey and Owings? Sure, they are terrible. Arroyo and Harang aren't very good anymore and they make a lot of money. I wouldn't mind Harang coming back but Arroyo is garbage.

Homer Bailey
07-22-2009, 06:25 PM
Bailey and Owings? Sure, they are terrible. Arroyo and Harang aren't very good anymore and they make a lot of money. I wouldn't mind Harang coming back but Arroyo is garbage.

Do you really think you are going to be able to get an SP in return that is better and/or cheaper than Arroyo.

What exactly do you think you could get for Bailey and Owings?

reds44
07-22-2009, 06:32 PM
Do you really think you are going to be able to get an SP in return that is better and/or cheaper than Arroyo.

What exactly do you think you could get for Bailey and Owings?
Arroyo is cheap?

And I really don't care, just because they have no value doesn't mean I want them pitching for the Cincinnati Reds anymore.

Homer Bailey
07-22-2009, 06:51 PM
Arroyo is cheap?

And I really don't care, just because they have no value doesn't mean I want them pitching for the Cincinnati Reds anymore.

I never said Arroyo was cheap. I'm saying the only way you aren't going to benefit at all by dumping Arroyo for nothing only to spend more money on a free agent that certainly isn't worth the money. Keeping Arroyo would be the cheaper option in that circumstance.

Addition by subtraction does not really work with starting pitching.

Will M
07-22-2009, 06:52 PM
With 53 votes in so far the following players have netted >60% of the vote.
Lets play a game: assume we keep these players and the rest are traded, not resigned, DFAed,etc.

Starters:
C Hanigan
1B Votto
2B Phillips
SS
3B EE
RF Bruce
CF Dickerson
LF

SP:
TOR Cueto
TOR Volquez (if healthy)
MOR Harang
BOR? Bailey
BOR Owings

RP (solid and deep):
Cordero
Rhodes
Masset
Herrara
Fisher
Roenicke
Burton

Currently in AAA/AA:
OF Stubbs
OF Heisey
OF Dorn (could be a bench bat for 2010)
OF Frazier
1B Alonso
SS Cozart
SP/RP Stewart
SP Wood
I am sure there are a couple decent guys in the high minors I am forgetting.


What else would this team need to be good/make the playoffs?
1. a TOR starter. Volquez is a question mark. Harang is currently more a MOR than TOR starter. adding another TOR starter pushes either Owings or Bailey out of the rotation.
2. a shortstop

Now, can we obtain these by trading our junk and or in the offseason free agent market? It seems the only guys with any value that people don't want back are Arroyo, Weathers & Gomes. I don't think these guys are going to net us a TOR starter and a SS.

What to do?
1. suffer through another patchwork job & sub .500 team. this is the Reds standard operating procedure
2. one thought would be to trade the guys in the minors with value to fill the current team's pressing needs. the Reds could trade Alonso, Stubbs or Heisey and/or Frazier. these guys have real value. the 2010 outfield could be Bruce in RF, Dickerson and/or Heisey/Stubbs in center and make a splash for a free agent for LF. a left fielder has to be a lot easier to get on the free agent market than a shortstop or TOR starter. or they could use Gomes plus a LH platoon partner to fill LF on the cheap.
3. other thoughts/plans/insights?

thatcoolguy_22
07-23-2009, 08:09 AM
Who said no to Volquez and Bruce?

Sea Ray
07-23-2009, 12:08 PM
I think if Homer was allowed to have the mentality to just rear back and sling it, it might do him a heck of a lot better than trying to nibble and pick at corners and certain areas of the strike zone.

Homer doesn't throw strikes b/c he tries to miss bats. Maybe if he didn't try to miss bats but rather challenged bats, he'd be the cheaper closer we could use for the next 3+ years.

If it's that easy then why wait for him to be a reliever to do that? I'd tell him to do that now and let's see how it goes.

Chip R
07-23-2009, 12:24 PM
Who said no to Volquez and Bruce?


Who said Yes to Willy T?

KoryMac5
07-23-2009, 12:34 PM
Had a hard time saying no thanks to Stormy, but with 10/5 kicking in next season thanks for the memories.

Ltlabner
07-23-2009, 12:34 PM
Who said Yes to Willy T?

http://school.discoveryeducation.com/clipart/images/answer-boy.gif

Big Klu
07-23-2009, 12:45 PM
Who said no to Volquez and Bruce?

I did not vote for Bruce. I think that he would be a good trading chip who could fill multiple needs.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-23-2009, 12:50 PM
The 6 lowest vote getters....

Gonzo: 0
Taveras: 1
Lincoln: 3
Hernandez: 4
Hairston: 7
Weathers: 7

will roughly make a combined $24M this year. LOL.

Out of this group, only Lincoln and Taveras are signed for 2010. Unfortunately, nearly 1/8th of the team salary in 2010 will be going to Dusty and Willy ($7.5M).

That's good for another LOL.

Chip R
07-23-2009, 12:52 PM
http://school.discoveryeducation.com/clipart/images/answer-boy.gif


http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/Sweatbringer/th_Bill-Murray-you-suck.jpg

nate
07-23-2009, 02:29 PM
I wish we could sort the poll by result.

Reds1
07-23-2009, 03:19 PM
Surprised to see Jerry Hairston Jr so low. He can play many positions including SS and has speed and can hit. I like him as a sub, but with injuries he can play a little. No love for Hairston.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-23-2009, 03:21 PM
He can play many positions including SS and has speed and can hit.

Debatable.

Homer Bailey
07-23-2009, 03:22 PM
Surprised to see Jerry Hairston Jr so low. He can play many positions including SS and has speed and can hit. I like him as a sub, but with injuries he can play a little. No love for Hairston.

Dusty will start him every day. Wish Dusty was included on this poll.

REDREAD
07-23-2009, 03:29 PM
Do you think we will get better pitchers in the Harang, Bailey, Owings, and Arroyo trades than those 4? Wouldn't that pretty much defeat the purpose of the trade for the other team?

What free agent pitchers will be more affordable/better than Harang and Arroyo?

I thought the premise of the question was to ask who we really wanted back on the team next year. In other words, who is the "core" for 2010 and going forward.. Naturally, we are going to be stuck with players we don't really want on the team.

I can see voting for some guys based on salary/performance.. I did that too.

I think that's why Owings has solid support. Obviously, if Ownings had an 8 million dollar option next year, few would vote for him.

REDREAD
07-23-2009, 03:33 PM
Who said Yes to Willy T?

I think Wily's mom posts on this board. :)

Homer Bailey
07-23-2009, 03:34 PM
I thought the premise of the question was to ask who we really wanted back on the team next year. In other words, who is the "core" for 2010 and going forward.. Naturally, we are going to be stuck with players we don't really want on the team.

I can see voting for some guys based on salary/performance.. I did that too.

I think that's why Owings has solid support. Obviously, if Ownings had an 8 million dollar option next year, few would vote for him.

Well if you don't want someone back, what would you propose you do with that person? You going to DFA a pitcher making 8 digits? In a perfect world, I wish we could just pick and choose who we wanted on our teams. I don't want Arroyo back, but I don't see a much better option out there. If we could trade him and dump his salary, I would be all for it. However, I don't think anyone would take on his salary, and I don't think we can match his production unless we go out and spend even more money, which would be foolish IMO.

nate
07-23-2009, 03:36 PM
I think Wily's mom posts on this board. :)

I think it might be Willy himself!

Homer Bailey
07-23-2009, 03:38 PM
I think it might be Willy himself!

I think the voter's name rhymes with Musty.

GAC
07-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Some of those guys are under contract for 2010 and beyond. So what does it matter? ;)

Chip R
07-23-2009, 04:27 PM
I think the voter's name rhymes with Musty.


Rusty?

Reds1
07-23-2009, 05:24 PM
Debatable.

Sure, but he's made several great plays of late - I've seen worse. He's a better hitter IMO than probably every other SS wannabe. My point was not just SS, but he can play 3B, 2B, and all OF spots, speed, can bunt, etc. and he was like 9% - just surprised me.

Love this post - you see what fans thing. Brandon Phillips under 80%

Chip R
07-23-2009, 05:33 PM
Love this post - you see what fans thing. Brandon Phillips under 80%


And that's why they don't let fans run MLB teams.

OTOH, there should be no sacred cows.

HeatherC1212
07-23-2009, 05:51 PM
I'm glad to see we're all in agreement about Johnny Cueto and Joey Votto so far. Whoever doesn't vote for them has obviously not been paying much attention to the team, LOL :laugh: :p:

Highlifeman21
07-23-2009, 06:03 PM
http://school.discoveryeducation.com/clipart/images/answer-boy.gif

Liar!

You didn't vote for The Virus.

Friends don't let friends vote for The Virus.

Ltlabner
07-23-2009, 06:05 PM
Liar!

You didn't vote for The Virus.

Friends don't let friends vote for The Virus.

I was all messed up on Ambien and All-Bran this morning. I don't know what I was thinking.

Highlifeman21
07-23-2009, 06:07 PM
I was all messed up on Ambien and All-Bran this morning. I don't know what I was thinking.

Maybe you were posting on meth?

I heard that's all the rage around RedsZone these days.

nate
07-23-2009, 06:22 PM
Sure, but he's made several great plays of late

I dunno. I've seen exciting plays but I think a better player (one with greater range) makes those plays look a lot less exciting.

Exciting doesn't always = good defense.

dsmith421
07-23-2009, 07:51 PM
Sure, but he's made several great plays of late - I've seen worse. He's a better hitter IMO than probably every other SS wannabe. My point was not just SS, but he can play 3B, 2B, and all OF spots, speed, can bunt, etc. and he was like 9% - just surprised me.

He plays a lot of positions but fields none of them well and his bat is very mediocre. Plus Dusty loves starting him and hitting him second. I'd rather carry two guys on the bench--a plus fielder and someone who can actually hit--than have a guy that does both poorly.