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savafan
07-24-2009, 02:35 AM
http://www.irontontribune.com/news/2009/jul/24/reds-officials-not-planning-give-season-yet/

By Jim Walker | The Tribune

Originally published 01:10 a.m., July 24, 2009
Updated 01:10 a.m., July 24, 2009

Fans might or might not be ready to give up on the Cincinnati Reds’ playoff chances. Count team CEO Bob Castellini as one of those who remains hopeful.

Despite a 2-5 record since the All-Star break including three straight losses at Los Angeles, and trailing Central Division leading St. Louis by five and one-half games, Castellini isn’t about to engage in any fire sale similar to last season when he shipped off power hitters Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn.

“Nothing’s changed. We’re still trying to improve the club,” said Castellini.

The Reds are 44-50 that keeps their hopes alive of ending a franchise record of eight straight losing seasons. Even if the Reds don’t make the playoffs, Castellini would like nothing better than to post a winning record.

General manager Walt Jocketty agrees with Castellini that the Reds are close to turning the corner.

“Even though we’ve struggle, we’re still close,” said Jocketty.

Although Castellini and Jocketty say they’re fixed on keeping the team in tact, rumors swirled in Los Angeles that the Dodgers were eyeing Reds’ bullpen pitchers Francisco Cordero, David Weathers and Arthur Rhodes.

Rhodes is the most attractive with a $2 million salary. Weathers does not have a no-trade clause but has a salary of $3.5 million. Cordero has 21 saves, but he is the Reds’ highest paid player at $12.125 million per season.

Catcher Ramon Hernandez could be on the trade block but a knee injury will sideline him four-to-six weeks. Hernandez makes $8.5 million and is hitting .249 with five home runs and 36 runs batted in.

Ryan Hanigan, who has played in 55 games or 22 less than Hernandez, has been outstanding throwing out runners and is hitting .313 with a home run and just eight RBI.

Starting pitchers Aaron Harang and Bronson Arroyo have been mentioned in the rumor mill. Harang is 5-10 and is 0-6 since May 25. Arroyo has an earned run average that’s creeping toward four digits, but he has posted a 17-6 record previously in September and October.

Harang is the second highest-paid player at $11 million and Arroyo third at $10.125 million. Jocketty claims team payroll will have nothing to do with any moves.

“We’re trying to improve the club the best we can,” said Jocketty. “I don’t want to get stuck talking about contracts.”

The Reds’ offense continues to struggle. It is ranked 14th among the National League’s 16 teams. Jocketty said last year he was interested in bringing back Dunn who was a free agent in the off-season and Dunn is rumored to be on the trading block.

San Francisco is the most interested in obtaining Dunn who is among the league leaders in home runs and RBIs.

“We need someone to help pick up the pace and pick up the production,” said Jocketty.

The Reds can’t afford another series in Chicago this weekend like they had in Los Angeles. The Cubs are second in the division, just one game back.

Harang goes Friday against Randy Wells. On Saturday, Johnny Cueto (8-6) will get the start and Micah Owings (6-10) takes the mound on Sunday. The Reds return home to face San Diego on Monday with struggling Homer Bailey expected to get the start.

HumnHilghtFreel
07-24-2009, 02:45 AM
Still don't know why they didn't just pay him in the off-season. Giving up prospects to get him back now possibly, makes Jocketty look like a bit of a fool IMO.

*this is all of course, considering that Adam would have wanted to come back. this would be very interesting if he has ill-will towards the club.

CTA513
07-24-2009, 02:48 AM
The NL would have to add the DH before I would bring him back.

cincyinco
07-24-2009, 02:49 AM
Redszone is going to have a meltdown over this.

Mods, I don't envy you right about now.

savafan
07-24-2009, 02:50 AM
Redszone is going to have a meltdown over this.

Mods, I don't envy you right about now.

Good thing the story hit about an hour ago while most people are in bed.

cincyinco
07-24-2009, 02:53 AM
Right, but it might be ugly after I wake up tomorrow afternoon..

:)

CTA513
07-24-2009, 02:55 AM
Redszone is going to have a meltdown over this.

Mods, I don't envy you right about now.


Mods have tazers and pepper spray on hand.

;)

Brutus
07-24-2009, 03:12 AM
It seems too surreal to be true. It kind of makes sense though.

One of the reasons Cincinnati wanted to cut ways was because of the salary Dunn was expected to demand (and did at first). Now that he's under contract in a relative bargain to what was expected, it makes at least a little sense as to why there would be renewed interest. And this kind of fits in with the 2010 theory I have been expressing.

I doubt seriously this would come to fruition. And quite honestly, this might be nothing more than the Reds trying to float some things out in the media for leverage. But it's funny to think about.

I'm content with Dunn being gone for several reasons, most of which I've been outspoken over. That said, I'm not opposed to his return if it were a reasonable trade.

This will pass, though.

BearcatShane
07-24-2009, 03:44 AM
It doesn't really say the Reds are at all talking about bringing Dunn back.

Brutus
07-24-2009, 03:47 AM
It doesn't really say the Reds are at all talking about bringing Dunn back.

After re-reading that, you're right. I don't think it was meant to imply they were looking at him, though the writer may have been thinking that.

mth123
07-24-2009, 04:57 AM
It doesn't really say the Reds are at all talking about bringing Dunn back.

Nope. And if it did it would be tampering. This is the case of a writer taking a quote from last year when Dunn was still on the Reds and using it to make some crazy headline.

redsfandan
07-24-2009, 05:19 AM
From last year:

Jocketty said last year he was interested in bringing back Dunn who was a free agent in the off-season ...
From this year:

... and Dunn is rumored to be on the trading block.

Tabloid journalism at it's finest. Like mth123 touched on, for Jocketty to say that he was interested in any specific player that is currently on another teams roster would be tampering. You can rip him all you want but I don't think he's that stupid.

Ltlabner
07-24-2009, 06:37 AM
Over under on:

1) Time before thread lockage

2) Number of total posts

Boss-Hog
07-24-2009, 10:47 AM
There's no truth to the rumor that this morning's outage was caused by this thread. ;)

On a side note, I updated the thread title so that it's more accurate than what it was previously.

KoryMac5
07-24-2009, 10:48 AM
Walt continues to play the game of telling the fans what they want to hear to keep the team relevant. Fortunately his charade ends in a few days, as the Reds will do nothing at the deadline.

flyer85
07-24-2009, 10:53 AM
It doesn't really say the Reds are at all talking about bringing Dunn back.2009 is finished

Ltlabner
07-24-2009, 10:56 AM
How many times has a Dunn thread crashed RZ now? It's gotta be a record or something.

Unassisted
07-24-2009, 10:59 AM
This can be resolved simply and without drama.

"Jocketty said last year"

If you've been on RedsZone since last offseason, all you need to know is in that 4 word quote from the article. The quote was prior to the spending freeze. The interest in Dunn or any big-money FA evaporated after it was imposed. The Reds haven't added a big salary since the spending freeze went into effect and there has been no indication it has been lifted.

top6
07-24-2009, 11:03 AM
I'm sorry, but I think the mods need to talk to Jocketty about this. There are already about 100 Dunn-related threads he could have posted this on.

bucksfan2
07-24-2009, 11:05 AM
Window dressing at its finest. He isn't going to say we wanted to rid ourselves of Dunn. He did the politically correct thing in saying there was interest in resigning him.

Homer Bailey
07-24-2009, 11:08 AM
I'm already sick of this thread. This really doesn't even need to be discussed anymore than it has.

GAC
07-24-2009, 11:08 AM
I listened to Walt several times LAST SEASON, during pre-game interviews, talk about wanting to retain Dunn, and that if they let him go they'd just have to replace him, as far as his offensive production. He made it sound like they were really going to make an effort to resign Dunn IMO.

Well....they let him go. Still waiting the latter half of it to be fulfilled. ;)

M2
07-24-2009, 11:36 AM
San Francisco is the most interested in obtaining Dunn who is among the league leaders in home runs and RBIs.

Why the Giants didn't sign him in the winter remains a mystery to me. That club ought to be desperate for a guy with Dunn's offensive talents.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 11:39 AM
Why the Giants didn't sign him in the winter remains a mystery to me. That club ought to be desperate for a guy with Dunn's offensive talents.

They still owe Zito 10 kabillion dollars. ;)

edabbs44
07-24-2009, 12:01 PM
Why the Giants didn't sign him in the winter remains a mystery to me. That club ought to be desperate for a guy with Dunn's offensive talents.

Maybe they were scared of watching him play in that outfield.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-24-2009, 12:07 PM
Maybe they were scared of watching him play in that outfield.

I doubt that bothers them considering the Barry Bonds statue played a few seasons out there.

Not to beat a dead horse, but Dunn's D in LF was not that bad. Average to below-average and very tolerable considering his offensive production.

Benihana
07-24-2009, 12:09 PM
Let's keep talking about Adam Dunn while the Cardinals go out and get Matt Holliday. :rolleyes:

savafan
07-24-2009, 12:12 PM
Tabloid journalism at it's finest. Like mth123 touched on, for Jocketty to say that he was interested in any specific player that is currently on another teams roster would be tampering. You can rip him all you want but I don't think he's that stupid.

Sleep deprived late night posting at it's finest. I thought I saw something that wasn't there...

M2
07-24-2009, 12:24 PM
Maybe they were scared of watching him play in that outfield.

They should be scared of that weenie offense. Plus, they could play him at 1B. No one's going to weep over the benching of Travis Ishikawa.

savafan
07-24-2009, 12:26 PM
They should be scared of that weenie offense. Plus, they could play him at 1B. No one's going to weep over the benching of Travis Ishikawa.

Except for maybe Travis Ishikawa

nate
07-24-2009, 12:27 PM
They should be scared of that weenie offense. Plus, they could play him at 1B. No one's going to weep over the benching of Travis Ishikawa.

What about his mom?

:cool:

M2
07-24-2009, 12:29 PM
What about his mom?

:cool:

You know, I was going to add that even Ishikawa's mom would endorse that move.

redsfandan
07-24-2009, 12:31 PM
Sleep deprived late night posting at it's finest. I thought I saw something that wasn't there...
Yeah cuz the writer wanted the readers to think there was something there. No harm.

princeton
07-24-2009, 12:51 PM
Sleep deprived late night posting at it's finest. I thought I saw something that wasn't there...

a ghost?

15fan
07-24-2009, 01:51 PM
Why the Giants didn't sign him in the winter remains a mystery to me. That club ought to be desperate for a guy with Dunn's offensive talents.

He's too young. They generally don't sign guys until they're within shouting distance of getting Social Security.

SMcGavin
07-24-2009, 05:09 PM
Signing Dunn to that contract he got this offseason would have been excellent. It's interesting that Jocketty even considered it, that surprises me.

Giving up prospects for him now though would be pretty pointless. He makes a lot of sense for the Giants though.

reds44
07-24-2009, 05:12 PM
Let's keep talking about Adam Dunn while the Cardinals go out and get Matt Holliday. :rolleyes:
Holliday: .286/.378/.454/.831
Dunn: .274/.404/.548/.952

Tell me who is better?

KronoRed
07-24-2009, 05:49 PM
Holliday: .286/.378/.454/.831
Dunn: .274/.404/.548/.952

Tell me who is better?

Yeah but you know the drill on why Dunn REALLY sucks ;)

TheNext44
07-24-2009, 06:05 PM
Holliday: .286/.378/.454/.831
Dunn: .274/.404/.548/.952

Tell me who is better?

Dunn is still my favorite player, but I would easily take Holliday over him, every day.

Here are the full comparisons.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1873&position=OF

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=319&position=OF

2009:

Holliday 2.7 WAR $12.3M
Dunn 1.0 WAR $4.4M

Factor in defense, and Holiday is worth almost three times what Dunn is worth. And this has nothing to do with K's or clutch or streakiness or any of the BS that Dunn haters like to throw at him. The point is that Dunn hurts you in the field almost has much has he helps you at the plate. Holliday is a very good fielder. That's the difference, and it's huge.

savafan
07-24-2009, 06:13 PM
Holliday 2.7 WAR $12.3M
Dunn 1.0 WAR $4.4M

Factor in defense, and Holiday is worth almost three times what Dunn is worth. And this has nothing to do with K's or clutch or streakiness or any of the BS that Dunn haters like to throw at him. The point is that Dunn hurts you in the field almost has much has he helps you at the plate. Holliday is a very good fielder. That's the difference, and it's huge.

Yeah, but catching routine fly balls isn't sexy.

westofyou
07-24-2009, 06:16 PM
Holliday: .286/.378/.454/.831
Dunn: .274/.404/.548/.952

Tell me who is better?

Tell me about park and league effects.

TheNext44
07-24-2009, 06:24 PM
Yeah, but catching routine fly balls isn't sexy.

And we all know that Adam is sexy, just ask Austin. ;)

dougdirt
07-24-2009, 06:36 PM
Holliday: .286/.378/.454/.831
Dunn: .274/.404/.548/.952

Tell me who is better?

Matt Holliday.

savafan
07-24-2009, 06:50 PM
This is like comparing a Granny Smith to McIntosh. One is red, the other is green. You just can't do it.

savafan
07-24-2009, 09:11 PM
Dunn to the Tigers?

http://therocket.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/willingham_dunn_drawing_intere.html

The Rangers have been in Washington scouting the Nationals, according to a baseball source. Texas is looking for a right-handed hitter, and it is believed that it has interest in Josh Willingham, who has been one of the Nationals' most consistent hitters this season.

Entering Friday's action, Willingham was hitting .294 with 13 home runs and 29 RBIs. He is arguably the most sought after player on the Nationals because of his consistency with the bat.

The Tigers are another team that is interested in Willingham as well as Adam Dunn. They see both players as designated hitters. According to an industry source, the Nationals have been scouting players from Double-A Erie, a Tigers affiliate.

In any deal, the Nationals want young pitching prospects in return.

redsfandan
07-24-2009, 09:30 PM
Dunn to the AL where he makes the most sense. That would help his value.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-24-2009, 11:14 PM
Dunn to the AL where he makes the most sense. That would help his value.


I like Dunn as much as anyone, but he should have got familiar with 1B, when he had the opportunity in Cincinnati.

It's the one thing with him that I'll never understand.

I think he'd be a much richer man and more desirable commodity with that move.

savafan
07-24-2009, 11:19 PM
I like Dunn as much as anyone, but he should have got familiar with 1B, when he had the opportunity in Cincinnati.

It's the one thing with him that I'll never understand.

I think he'd be a much richer man and more desirable commodity with that move.

I sincerely think it's Reds ownership/management that refuses to think outside the box when it comes to defense in the field.

Keeping Barry Larkin at shortstop after his range had dried up.

Not asking Griffey to move from centerfield until it is too late.

Not trying Dunn at 1st base.

Refusing to give Phillips a shot at shortstop when he has publicly addressed a desire to play there.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-24-2009, 11:26 PM
I sincerely think it's Reds ownership/management that refuses to think outside the box when it comes to defense in the field.

Keeping Barry Larkin at shortstop after his range had dried up.

Not asking Griffey to move from centerfield until it is too late.

Not trying Dunn at 1st base.

Refusing to give Phillips a shot at shortstop when he has publicly addressed a desire to play there.

I thought they had asked Dunn to move and he kind of hesitated and, like Griffey refusing to give up CF, the front office just put their tail between their legs and walked away.

I would bet that a spine is pretty important when it comes to running baseball franchise.

savafan
07-24-2009, 11:28 PM
I thought they had asked Dunn to move and he kind of hesitated and, like Griffey refusing to give up CF, the front office just put their tail between their legs and walked away.

I would bet that a spine is pretty important when it comes to running baseball franchise.

I don't know who it was, perhaps Hal McCoy, speaking concerning the Reds as inmates running the asylum

Highlifeman21
07-25-2009, 08:12 PM
I'm already sick of this thread. This really doesn't even need to be discussed anymore than it has.

So why'd you post in the thread?

Dunn's making what, 10 Mil a year?

I'd rather pay Dunn 10 Mil a year than Arroyo 10 Mil a year...

What say you?

Highlifeman21
07-25-2009, 08:15 PM
Let's keep talking about Adam Dunn while the Cardinals go out and get Matt Holliday. :rolleyes:

Except St. Louis is a longer term destination for Matt Holliday.

If the Reds would have gotten Holliday, he'd be a rental and then walk after his contract expired.

That's the difference between the losing culture of Cincinnati and the winning culture of St. Louis.

Highlifeman21
07-25-2009, 08:20 PM
I thought they had asked Dunn to move and he kind of hesitated and, like Griffey refusing to give up CF, the front office just put their tail between their legs and walked away.

I would bet that a spine is pretty important when it comes to running baseball franchise.

2006, Dunn passed on being on the WBC roster to work on 1B.

After the WBC roster was locked, we signed Hatteberg, so Dunn went back to LF.

Hatteberg played 1B until Votto took over, so the move for Dunn back to try 1B as the starter never happened.

I don't think it was that Dunn was hesitant to play 1B, but that we had better defenders @ 1B who's stick didn't completely suck, so Dunn's best place for the Reds by default was LF.

Raisor
07-25-2009, 10:30 PM
2006, Dunn passed on being on the WBC roster to work on 1B.

After the WBC roster was locked, we signed Hatteberg, so Dunn went back to LF.

Hatteberg played 1B until Votto took over, so the move for Dunn back to try 1B as the starter never happened.

I don't think it was that Dunn was hesitant to play 1B, but that we had better defenders @ 1B who's stick didn't completely suck, so Dunn's best place for the Reds by default was LF.

If people go and read the quotes back then, there is no mystery to what happened.

At this point I don't remember if it was DO or WK, but when they signed Hatteberg they said that the defense/offense was better with Dunn in LF and Hatteberg at 1B then with Dunn at 1st and WMP in LF.

The whole Urban Legend of Dunn refusing to play 1st was just that, an Urban Legend.

mth123
07-25-2009, 10:34 PM
If people go and read the quotes back then, there is no mystery to what happened.

At this point I don't remember if it was DO or WK, but when they signed Hatteberg they said that the defense/offense was better with Dunn in LF and Hatteberg at 1B then with Dunn at 1st and WMP in LF.

The whole Urban Legend of Dunn refusing to play 1st was just that, an Urban Legend.

But he did suck at first a lot more than he sucks in LF. Not all LF are better off ending up at 1B. Would you want every ground ball on the IF dependent on Manny Ramirez catching it at the other end? I'd rather have Manny in LF where he can do less damage. I feel the same way about Dunn.

Highlifeman21
07-25-2009, 10:42 PM
If people go and read the quotes back then, there is no mystery to what happened.

At this point I don't remember if it was DO or WK, but when they signed Hatteberg they said that the defense/offense was better with Dunn in LF and Hatteberg at 1B then with Dunn at 1st and WMP in LF.

The whole Urban Legend of Dunn refusing to play 1st was just that, an Urban Legend.

But just think, if WMP had played in LF and Dunn @ 1B, then we could have appreciated WMP's brand of butchery in LF.

IslandRed
07-25-2009, 10:42 PM
If people go and read the quotes back then, there is no mystery to what happened.

At this point I don't remember if it was DO or WK, but when they signed Hatteberg they said that the defense/offense was better with Dunn in LF and Hatteberg at 1B then with Dunn at 1st and WMP in LF.

The whole Urban Legend of Dunn refusing to play 1st was just that, an Urban Legend.

There was also the GM change in the middle of all that, and Krivsky's first move was to get Dunn to sign a contract extension. A lot of folks thought there was an element of "wherever you want to play, big guy" involved in the negotiations. Maybe true, maybe not, and it's no discredit on Dunn either way.

M2
07-27-2009, 10:03 AM
The whole Urban Legend of Dunn refusing to play 1st was just that, an Urban Legend.

It's up there with Barry Larkin won't hit leadoff.