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Benihana
07-24-2009, 01:26 PM
www.mlbtraderumors.com

11:45am: Ed Price of AOL FanHouse says Cincinnati has interest in Halladay. Presumably, Halladay wouldn't accept a trade to the 44-50 Reds.

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/07/24/phillies-still-in-lead-for-roy-halladay-but-situation-far-from/


Texas, St. Louis (at least before the Matt Holliday deal), Tampa Bay, Milwaukee and -- a team not mentioned so far -- Cincinnati have also been involved. Word is the Rangers and Reds have attractive packages, but based on Halladay's stance, those teams' position in the standings could keep him from going there.

Now that would really crash the board. Maybe Cast and Walt are serious about being buyers :eek:

dougdirt
07-24-2009, 01:27 PM
Every team in baseball has interest in Roy Halladay. If they don't, their GM should be fired yesterday.

cumberlandreds
07-24-2009, 01:28 PM
Why would he approve a trade to a team that hasn't done squat in 10 years? He's not coming to Cincy.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:29 PM
I am going to be the first one to say:

BS!

I'm not saying that to you Benihana, but to the notion that the Reds are even trying to acquire Roy Halladay. I'm sure they have interest, but they have nothing more than that. I'm guessing a deal for him would take Alonso, Bailey, Heissey and probably more.

KoryMac5
07-24-2009, 01:30 PM
I would imagine the Reds could put one heck of a deal on the table for Toronto. It is my understanding that most of the offers have been fairly underwhelming so far leading me to think Toronto will hold onto him.

edabbs44
07-24-2009, 01:33 PM
Wow...

It's funny. If we hear no reports of Walt getting involved, he is sitting on his hands doing nothing. If we hear that he is getting involved with one of the biggest names, it is a BS report.

This would be huge. Probably a longshot for the reasons mentioned above, but wow.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:35 PM
Wow...

It's funny. If we hear no reports of Walt getting involved, he is sitting on his hands doing nothing. If we hear that he is getting involved with one of the biggest names, it is a BS report.

This would be huge. Probably a longshot for the reasons mentioned above, but wow.

It's just simply not true and everyone here knows it. There is simply no way Halladay is coming to Cincy. It sounds like some nonsense leaked by the Reds FO to get some interest up.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 01:37 PM
I am going to be the first one to say:

BS!

I'm not saying that to you Benihana, but to the notion that the Reds are even trying to acquire Roy Halladay. I'm sure they have interest, but they have nothing more than that. I'm guessing a deal for him would take Alonso, Bailey, Heissey and probably more.

Bailey as a trading chip. LOL.

Ltlabner
07-24-2009, 01:38 PM
If the proof Walt is really working the phones and putting together impact deals is one internet rumor I'd say chances are better that Walt's dozing in his chair.

flyer85
07-24-2009, 01:38 PM
doesn't matter what Toronto wants ... it's driven by where Halladay will go. Cincy isn't on the list.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:38 PM
Bailey as a trading chip. LOL.

They want Hughes. They are at about the same value if used correctly.

VR
07-24-2009, 01:39 PM
Bailey as a trading chip. LOL.

Once Bailey gets in the hands of a bonafide coaching staff, look out.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:40 PM
Once Bailey gets in the hands of a bonafide coaching staff, look out.

Exactly.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 01:40 PM
Once Bailey gets in the hands of a bonafide coaching staff, look out.

Uh-huh.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:40 PM
Uh-huh.

He's not Anthony Reyes.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 01:42 PM
He's not Anthony Reyes.

He might be a bit better than Reyes in that he might have a career in middle relief.

Ltlabner
07-24-2009, 01:42 PM
Uh-huh.

It's not like your team doesn't have a track record of turning train-wrecks into useful pieces.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:43 PM
He might be a bit better than Reyes in that he might have a career in middle relief.

How quickly we can change our minds after seeing results. Reyes did not produce any.

Strikes Out Looking
07-24-2009, 01:43 PM
Not that it's going to happen, but how do we know the Reds aren't on Halladay's list? I thought I read somewhere that he wants to go somewhere that is a little more low key than NY. And the Reds do have a decent number of prospects in the pipeline to make deals with if necessary.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 01:43 PM
How quickly we can change our minds after seeing results. Reyes did not produce any.

I've never been a Reyes booster.

Brutus
07-24-2009, 01:44 PM
It's just simply not true and everyone here knows it. There is simply no way Halladay is coming to Cincy. It sounds like some nonsense leaked by the Reds FO to get some interest up.

Could be. And I don't disagree Halladay is unlikely to approve such a trade. However, dabbs has a good point - say the Reds really are trying to trade for Halladay. Even if it won't come to fruition, it would seem some people owe an apology for the harsh tone they've taken toward the organization's perceived lackluster 'effort.'

LoganBuck
07-24-2009, 01:45 PM
It's just simply not true and everyone here knows it. There is simply no way Halladay is coming to Cincy. It sounds like some nonsense leaked by the Reds FO to get some interest up.

It also sounds like a Walt Jocketty inspired move. That is the kind of player he WOULD go get. It may be BS, but a move for a player like Halladay to pair with Volquez and ANY bat could return the Reds back to contention. Halladay, a healthy Volquez, Cueto, Harang and Arroyo could win at a .600 clip if they got another bat. The key here is that it isn't enough for this year, but it would be for next year for sure.

As Colin Cowherd always says, "At least be interesting."

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:46 PM
I've never been a Reyes booster.

might want to check your post history again. If it had a bat on it's chest with two Cardinals sitting on it, you probably were supporting it. You just called Ryan Franklin a lights out closer based on half a season. It's seems to me that your opinions are somewhat jaded.

flyer85
07-24-2009, 01:47 PM
it would seem some people owe an apology for the harsh tone they've taken toward the organization's perceived lackluster 'effort.'"do or do not, there is no try"

Ltlabner
07-24-2009, 01:47 PM
However, dabbs has a good point - say the Reds really are trying to trade for Halladay. Even if it won't come to fruition, it would seem some people owe an apology for the harsh tone they've taken toward the organization's perceived lackluster 'effort.'

Actually we owe nothing of the sort.

It's an internet rumor so we have no idea if it's even true. And it it is, as you suggest, I offer no apology for expecting Walt to do his job.

Now, if Walt pulls off a spectacular series of moves in the next 7 days that sets us up for 2010 and beyond? Then I'll eat a big helping of Crow-Helper.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 01:48 PM
In this depressed market, all this BS talk by Halladay about wanting to go to a winner is going to dry up and blow away at the first seriously competitive extension he's offered.

Not that I could ever imagine the Reds offering a competitive salary (except when overpaying for replaceables like Arroyo and Gonzalez).

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:49 PM
Could be. And I don't disagree Halladay is unlikely to approve such a trade. However, dabbs has a good point - say the Reds really are trying to trade for Halladay. Even if it won't come to fruition, it would seem some people owe an apology for the harsh tone they've taken toward the organization's perceived lackluster 'effort.'

You can say you have interest all day long, but the proof is in the pudding or something. I honestly don't think the Reds have the chips to get him from Toronto unless they deal Votto or Cueto.

flyer85
07-24-2009, 01:49 PM
In this depressed market, all this BS talk by Halladay about wanting to go to a winner is going to dry up and blow away at the first seriously competitive extension he's offered.
no negotiating until the trade is completed ... at least according to "the pimp".

IslandRed
07-24-2009, 01:49 PM
First off, no, I don't expect this deal to happen.

But it fits the parameters of the type of deal Jocketty has said he's looking for and the Reds can probably pull together the package to do it. Will Halladay accept a trade to Cincinnati? Highly doubtful. But, as the old sales advice goes, never say "no" for the other guy.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 01:49 PM
It's seems to me that your opinions are somewhat jaded.

What?

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:50 PM
What?

I'm from KY, sorry. ;)

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 01:51 PM
no negotiating until the trade is completed ... at least according to "the pimp".

Suuure.

Chip R
07-24-2009, 01:51 PM
Halliday's would immediately become a mediocre pitcher if he were ever traded to the Reds.








Just channeling FCB there for a minute. :D

VR
07-24-2009, 01:52 PM
When is Volquez back?

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:53 PM
When is Volquez back?

3 weeks ago last weekend according to the FO. :cool:

Brutus
07-24-2009, 01:53 PM
"do or do not, there is no try"

Tell that to the people that say Jocketty is sitting on his hands and not trying to do anything.

I find it amusing that many folks who complain Jocketty does not get anything done will be the first in line to complain if he gives up too much.

It takes two teams to consummate a trade. Players of actual value require value in return. The people that some would prefer to trade on this board from the Reds' roster are not likely the same players that actual general managers would be targeting. The expectations on this board tend to be out of whack.

bucksfan2
07-24-2009, 01:53 PM
Tell that to the people that say Jocketty is sitting on his hands and not trying to do anything.

I find it amusing that many folks who complain Jocketty does not get anything done will be the first in line to complain if he gives up too much.

It takes two teams to consummate a trade. Players of actual value require value in return. The people that some would prefer to trade on this board from the Reds' roster are not likely the same players that actual general managers would be targeting. The expectations on this board tend to be out of whack.

You don't say.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 01:54 PM
Tell that to the people that say Jocketty is sitting on his hands and not trying to do anything.

I find it amusing that many folks who complain Jocketty does not get anything done will be the first in line to complain if he gives up too much.

It takes two teams to consummate a trade. Players of actual value require value in return. The people that some would prefer to trade on this board from the Reds' roster are not likely the same players that actual general managers would be targeting. The expectations on this board tend to be out of whack.

Unless the Reds trade Votto or Bruce, I could care less who else they give up. Just bring is some proven talent, please.

Marc D
07-24-2009, 01:55 PM
I have interest in Jessica Alba. Presumably she wouldn't be interested in 30 seconds of dissapointment with an out of shape, midlle aged, non-rich, non-famous guy.

RedsManRick
07-24-2009, 01:56 PM
If the Reds were to include Harang or Arroyo, the deal would be essentially salary neutral. Include, say, Bailey, Maloney, and Frazier and you have a pretty nice package that would potentially make sense for both clubs. That said, I don't think there's a chance that Halladay accepts a deal to come here.

flyer85
07-24-2009, 01:56 PM
Suuure.Toronto has little reason to give in on that. Halladay is not in the last year of his contract. He is not a free agent until after the 2010 season. I would think most teams would want to kick the tires and judge the market before offering an extension.

Johnny Footstool
07-24-2009, 01:58 PM
The most interesting thing to come out of this rumor is that the Rangers have put together an attractive package for Halladay.

If the Blue Jays don't bite, the Reds need to step in and offer Harang for that same package.

flyer85
07-24-2009, 01:58 PM
Tell that to the people that say Jocketty is sitting on his hands and not trying to do anything.
I am sitting around and waiting. Hopefully he'll be judged by the fruits of his labor, not on what he tried to do (or didn't try to do).

Brutus
07-24-2009, 02:00 PM
Allow me to add I think this is more evidence of my claims that Jocketty might have been looking at 2010 all along. This makes sense considering Halladay is signed for next season. It also jives with the remarks Jocketty has made repeatedly in recent weeks that the Reds want to make a trade that helps this year and beyond.

osuceltic
07-24-2009, 02:01 PM
Bailey, Alonso, Stubbs/Heisey, Roenicke. Do it, convince him to accept, and get to work on SS, 3B and LF.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 02:02 PM
Bailey, Alonso, Stubbs/Heisey, Roenicke. Do it, convince him to accept, and get to work on SS, 3B and LF.

Rolen
Scutaro
Rios

Brutus
07-24-2009, 02:02 PM
I am sitting around and waiting. Hopefully he'll be judged by the fruits of his labor, not on what he tried to do (or didn't try to do).

In the end, that's how it should be.

Rojo
07-24-2009, 02:03 PM
Curios as to the "attractive package". The Jays are also looking to move their right-fielder.

Jpup
07-24-2009, 02:08 PM
It turns out that the idea of fielding offers this month for Roy Halladay may not have been entirely hatched in the Blue Jays' boardroom or the office of general manager J.P. Ricciardi.

A lot of it came from Halladay himself.

"Roy told us he was going to test the free-agent market," Ricciardi said on the Fan 590 yesterday. "I think knowing that we're not going to be able to retain Roy, or getting in line for his services now as opposed to having sole rights to have him, we wouldn't be doing our job if we weren't exploring."

After yesterday's loss, Ricciardi said he couldn't remember when Halladay made that statement and added the right-hander has supplied them with a list of teams to which he would be willing to be traded.

"That's the whole reason we're going down this avenue," Ricciardi said.

By Halladay telling the Jays he would go the free agent route, it was apparent in which direction his heart was tugging. And that direction was out of Toronto.

Halladay declined to clarify the issue.

"I don't want to address it," he said after the game when asked about telling the Jays he wanted to test free agency following the 2010 season. "I don't know what he (Ricciardi) said. I'll do it (talk) after I pitch (tonight)."

Halladay gets the start for the Jays tonight when they open a three-game series against the Tampa Bay Rays in what could be his final start at home in a Jays uniform.

Earlier, Ricciardi told reporters that not much had changed in the Halladay sweepstakes and that he still didn't think a deal could be done by the Jays' date of July 28 or the non-waiver trade deadline of July 31.

Is he getting any more calls?

"A few more," Ricciardi said. "I think we're getting a little more detail. But my gut says no (trade). It's just my gut though."

In terms of progress being made, Ricciardi said that this weekend looms large given the Jays' Tuesday deadline.

"If we're down the road with something, obviously the deadline can fluctuate," he said. "But if we're not down the road by the 28th, nothing's going to happen."

Ricciardi also said the organization wasn't contemplating the concept of picking up any of Halladay's remaining salary to facilitate a deal.

"No, I don't think so," he said. "We don't have to at this point."

Ricciardi added that it isn't just the Jays and what they believe is fair value for Halladay that may be slowing up the dialogue -- although he did tell the Fan later "our asking price my be a little too high" -- that it could be that interested teams may have to make other deals to get the Halladay deal done.

"I think that some of the teams that are interested are trying to maybe move some pieces that they have to acquire the players, they have to go through their exercises. But that's not our problem."

One of those teams may be the Rays, who are said to be shopping LHP Scott Kazmir in order to free up money for Halladay.

When it comes to other players on the roster, Ricciardi said the most interest surrounds shortstop Marco Scutaro, who is a free agent at the end of the season.

"There has been a lot of interest in Scutaro," he said.

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2009/07/24/10242946-sun.html

TheNext44
07-24-2009, 02:17 PM
Actually we owe nothing of the sort.

It's an internet rumor so we have no idea if it's even true. And it it is, as you suggest, I offer no apology for expecting Walt to do his job.

Now, if Walt pulls off a spectacular series of moves in the next 7 days that sets us up for 2010 and beyond? Then I'll eat a big helping of Crow-Helper.

First, it may be on the internet, but fanhouse is a legitimate news site with legitimate reporters. This was not from some guys personal blog. It still may not be true, but it has the same credibility as if it was from C. Trent's or Lance's blog. (Not saying that everything on these guys blog is true, just that they are real reporters.)

Second, I have no idea if you ever criticized Jockety for not making an effort to improve this team, or for not doing his job. If you did not, then you are not who Brutus was referring to, so no need to be offended. But if you did, and this rumor is true, then you and anyone else who did, should eat some crow.

Brutus was not asking people to apologize for expecting Jocketty to do his job, he was asking people to apologize of accusing Jocketty of not doing his job, when it turns out that he might have been doing his job.

I don't know if you read Brutus's previous posts in other threads, but his point was that we don't know what Jocketty is doing, so we should wait until the smoke clears after the trading deadline before casting judgment. The fact that we now have a report that, if true, shows that Jocketty was willing to make a very large, bold move, proves his point, and was why he was wondering if anyone would eat crow now.

dunner13
07-24-2009, 02:20 PM
maybe walt will make it a huge package and get rolen and rios as well. We would basically have to empty our farm system and find a way to dump at least arroyos salary but we would be contenders over night.
Our chances of getting halladay are slim but Walt does have a track record of being an elephant hunter so maybe it has a shot.

Ltlabner
07-24-2009, 02:22 PM
I don't know if you read Brutus's previous posts in other threads, but his point was that we don't know what Jocketty is doing, so we should wait until the smoke clears after the trading deadline before casting judgment. The fact that we now have a report that, if true, shows that Jocketty was willing to make a very large, bold move, proves his point, and was why he was wondering if anyone would eat crow now.

Walt saying he's got interest in a player that the rest of MLB is also interested in and making a courtesy call to see what the price tag in hardly qualifies as "willing to make a very large bold move".

flyer85
07-24-2009, 02:22 PM
maybe walt will make it a huge package and get rolen and rios as well. We would basically have to empty our farm system and find a way to dump at least arroyos salary but we would be contenders over night.
Our chances of getting halladay are slim but Walt does have a track record of being an elephant hunter so maybe it has a shot.they would have to find a way to dump $30M in salary

Benihana
07-24-2009, 02:28 PM
maybe walt will make it a huge package and get rolen and rios as well. We would basically have to empty our farm system and find a way to dump at least arroyos salary but we would be contenders over night.
Our chances of getting halladay are slim but Walt does have a track record of being an elephant hunter so maybe it has a shot.

Why stop there? Include Scuarto :D

Hmmm, let's see...would

Encarnacion
Alonso
Stewart
Wood
Roenicke
Heisey
Francisco

be enough to get it done- with Arroyo and Taveras thrown in to help offset some of the salaries? :p:

LoganBuck
07-24-2009, 02:31 PM
Bailey, Alonso, Stubbs/Heisey, Roenicke. Do it, convince him to accept, and get to work on SS, 3B and LF.


I would just give them the roster of minor league players and say you can pick 4, with the following limits.

No more than three pitchers or position players respectively.
Only one of Stubbs/Heisey
You can count all pitchers on the Major League roster not named Cueto or Volquez as minor league players for your consideration.

LoganBuck
07-24-2009, 02:35 PM
Why stop there? Include Scuarto :D

Hmmm, let's see...would

Encarnacion
Alonso
Stewart
Wood
Roenicke
Heisey
Francisco

be enough to get it done- with Arroyo and Taveras thrown in to help offset some of the salaries? :p:

Funny thing is I would do something along those lines but they can keep Alex Rios, because he isn't really any better of a bat than EdE.

osuceltic
07-24-2009, 02:35 PM
I would just give them the roster of minor league players and say you can pick 4, with the following limits.

No more than three pitchers or position players respectively.
Only one of Stubbs/Heisey
You can count all pitchers on the Major League roster not named Cueto or Volquez as minor league players for your consideration.

Yep.

bucksfan2
07-24-2009, 02:36 PM
Walt saying he's got interest in a player that the rest of MLB is also interested in and making a courtesy call to see what the price tag in hardly qualifies as "willing to make a very large bold move".

Not so much. Walt knows what he has and knows he can throw together a deal in order to get things done. Other teams can't claim that.

Is Alonso allowed to be traded yet or does he have to be a PTBNL?

LoganBuck
07-24-2009, 02:39 PM
Not so much. Walt knows what he has and knows he can throw together a deal in order to get things done. Other teams can't claim that.

Is Alonso allowed to be traded yet or does he have to be a PTBNL?

PTBNL until Aug 15.

flyer85
07-24-2009, 02:39 PM
Is Alonso allowed to be traded yet or does he have to be a PTBNL?
his year is not yet up

edabbs44
07-24-2009, 02:47 PM
his year is not yet up

And he is on the DL, correct? Can you trade guys on the DL?

edabbs44
07-24-2009, 02:48 PM
Walt saying he's got interest in a player that the rest of MLB is also interested in and making a courtesy call to see what the price tag in hardly qualifies as "willing to make a very large bold move".

He's involved. And for a guy who is a long shot to acquire, it's more than he would have to do.

Brutus
07-24-2009, 02:51 PM
And he is on the DL, correct? Can you trade guys on the DL?

On either account, Alonso could be named as a PTBNL. As far as the DL, I believe that only applies to MLB Disabled Lists.

But regardless, Alonso could be traded. He would just have to be a player to be named later.

edabbs44
07-24-2009, 02:52 PM
If the Reds were to include Harang or Arroyo, the deal would be essentially salary neutral. Include, say, Bailey, Maloney, and Frazier and you have a pretty nice package that would potentially make sense for both clubs. That said, I don't think there's a chance that Halladay accepts a deal to come here.

If true I would hope that they hang on to Harang, if possible. That front 4 would be silly.

Give them Arroyo.

TheNext44
07-24-2009, 02:53 PM
Walt saying he's got interest in a player that the rest of MLB is also interested in and making a courtesy call to see what the price tag in hardly qualifies as "willing to make a very large bold move".

Not saying it's true, but if it is, it looks like Jocketty has done more than just make a courtesy call.


Cincinnati have also been involved. Word is the Rangers and Reds have attractive packages

Considering what the Jays are asking for Halladay, I'd call offereing them an attractive package is a very bold move.

Mario-Rijo
07-24-2009, 03:02 PM
The Reds have interest in Halladay huh? :bowrofl:

That Walt sure is a genuis, inquire about a guy who you have no intention of even making an offer for so when it seeps out it appears like we are out there trying. Guy is slick! Problem with that Walt, no on believes you have legitimate interest in a real difference maker.

Hoosier Red
07-24-2009, 03:11 PM
The Reds have interest in Halladay huh? :bowrofl:

That Walt sure is a genuis, inquire about a guy who you have no intention of even making an offer for so when it seeps out it appears like we are out there trying. Guy is slick! Problem with that Walt, no on believes you have legitimate interest in a real difference maker.


Cincinnati have also been involved. Word is the Rangers and Reds have attractive packages.

But you're right I doubt he even made an offer.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 03:16 PM
Toronto has little reason to give in on that.

Except that moving on it now instead of next season means your return is much better.

They'll move if they're compelled to move. It's pretty simple.

Roy Tucker
07-24-2009, 03:17 PM
My wife has said the Reds have attractive packages.

If nothing else, maybe WJ can drive up the price for the Cardinals and make them pay dearly. I'm just glad the Reds front office appears to consume O2 and produce CO2. I had my doubts for a while.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 03:18 PM
My wife has said the Reds have attractive packages.

If nothing else, maybe WJ can drive up the price for the Cardinals and make them pay dearly. I'm just glad the Reds front office appears to consume O2 and produce CO2. I had my doubts for a while.

I doubt the Cards have the talent that Ricciardi would demand in return.

Roy Tucker
07-24-2009, 03:23 PM
I doubt the Cards have the talent that Ricciardi would demand in return.

Never mind. I got my Holliday's and Halladay's mixed up.

Don't mind me.

blumj
07-24-2009, 03:26 PM
Never mind. I got my Holliday's and Halladay's mixed up.

Don't mind me.
Understandable. There's been a lot of that going around lately.

I(heart)Freel
07-24-2009, 03:39 PM
The Reds have interest in Halladay huh? :bowrofl:

That Walt sure is a genuis, inquire about a guy who you have no intention of even making an offer for so when it seeps out it appears like we are out there trying. Guy is slick! Problem with that Walt, no on believes you have legitimate interest in a real difference maker.

I believe him. Walt has done it before.

But keep on hating, for whatever reason.

dsmith421
07-24-2009, 03:43 PM
This certainly is the kind of deal that has been in Jocketty's wheelhouse down the years. I can't imagine that Halladay would even consider approving a trade to the Reds, sadly.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 03:47 PM
This certainly is the kind of deal that has been in Jocketty's wheelhouse down the years. I can't imagine that Halladay would even consider approving a trade to the Reds, sadly.

I know in headier times, some ballplayers took 15 million a year instead of 16 million to play in favorable conditions, but this economic downturn has emboldened a lot of GMs to play el cheapo with impunity, thus forcing the hands of soon-to-be FAs. If Castellini can find it in his heart to shell out the cash, Halladay's a Red. There's nothing else standing in the way of this deal.

Hoosier Red
07-24-2009, 03:47 PM
I don't know that Halladay wouldn't accept a trade to the Reds, sure its been a mediocre team this year, but in his FA year he'll be pitching in a mediocre division where he could be a real difference maker.

dsmith421
07-24-2009, 03:49 PM
I know in headier times, some ballplayers took 15 million a year instead of 16 million to play in favorable conditions, but this economic downturn has emboldened a lot of GMs to play el cheapo with impunity, thus forcing the hands of soon-to-be FAs. If Castellini can find it in his heart to shell out the cash, Halladay's a Red. There's nothing else standing in the way of this deal.

If there was ever a guy to break the bank for, Halladay is it. He's indestructible, impervious to terrible coaching, and just destroys hitters.

corkedbat
07-24-2009, 03:52 PM
Could be. And I don't disagree Halladay is unlikely to approve such a trade. However, dabbs has a good point - say the Reds really are trying to trade for Halladay. Even if it won't come to fruition, it would seem some people owe an apology for the harsh tone they've taken toward the organization's perceived lackluster 'effort.'

Hey, this organizatiln will blow a lot of smoke, but I want to see some "smart results". By that I mean, in the very remote chance they do acquire Halladay. I want the acquisiton leveraged to full advantage.

1) I do not want RH as a 2 month rental. if he were to be acquired for several very valuable young players,, they would have to be ready to insure that he will be around for another 2-3 years minimum or I want not part of the deal.

2) I want a RH-type deal to be a starting point and part of a comprehensive 3-5 year plan, not the be all and end all. If you're gonna be willing to bring in a star player like RH, be willing to surround him with other quality parts. Don't be like it was with Griffey or even Cordero - make the big splash then sit back on your laurels and dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

If they're going to make a deal for RH, I'm fully behind it - I'll do frickin' cartwheels!, but if they dio, they better be ready to go the whole nine yards. That means shedding contracts like Harang and Arroyo IMO and using the money to add a professional middle of the order bat, IMO. I would also try to land a veteran middleof the rotation starter (hopefully LH'd) by next spring - on that could give you Arroyo.Harang-type number for less cash. If they're not willing to follow through though - go young.

wheels
07-24-2009, 03:53 PM
I know in headier times, some ballplayers took 15 million a year instead of 16 million to play in favorable conditions, but this economic downturn has emboldened a lot of GMs to play el cheapo with impunity, thus forcing the hands of soon-to-be FAs. If Castellini can find it in his heart to shell out the cash, Halladay's a Red. There's nothing else standing in the way of this deal.


I'll bet Arroyo's contract is standing in the way. The Jays won't take him in return, so they probably need to dump him off first.

As much as I want this to happen, I just can't see it.

blumj
07-24-2009, 03:58 PM
I'll bet Arroyo's contract is standing in the way. The Jays won't take him in return, so they probably need to dump him off first.

As much as I want this to happen, I just can't see it.
I bet the Yankees would take Arroyo, if it doesn't cost them any prospects of value and gets Halladay to the NL.

wheels
07-24-2009, 04:05 PM
I bet the Yankees would take Arroyo, if it doesn't cost them any prospects of value and gets Halladay to the NL.

That's a really good point.

Chip R
07-24-2009, 04:26 PM
If there was ever a guy to break the bank for, Halladay is it. He's indestructible, impervious to terrible coaching, and just destroys hitters.


But he hasn't played for the Reds yet.

I(heart)Freel
07-24-2009, 04:31 PM
1) I do not want RH as a 2 month rental. if he were to be acquired for several very valuable young players,, they would have to be ready to insure that he will be around for another 2-3 years minimum or I want not part of the deal.



RH is signed through 2010 season. He's on record as saying he wants to test free agent waters at that time, which is what prompted this whole circus.

So... no, he wouldn't be a 2 month rental. But he also likely wouldn't sign an extension either.

Joseph
07-24-2009, 04:44 PM
How many of these posts over the 6 pages have said we shouldn't trade Volquez or Cueto in a possible deal?

Just talking out loud here as I would all but bet one of those two would be going to cash checks in Canadian money if RH was coming here.

Benihana
07-24-2009, 04:51 PM
How many of these posts over the 6 pages have said we shouldn't trade Volquez or Cueto in a possible deal?

Just talking out loud here as I would all but bet one of those two would be going to cash checks in Canadian money if RH was coming here.

Don't think so. The Dodgers won't trade Billingsley or Kershaw. The Phillies aren't trading Hamels and the Brewers aren't trading Gallardo. Similarly, I think the Jays know better than to ask for Cueto or Volquez.

Homer Bailey, Zack Stewart, Travis Wood, etc. are all fair game. But Cueto and Volquez aren't going anywhere, and even JP Riccardi knows that.

edabbs44
07-24-2009, 04:54 PM
How many of these posts over the 6 pages have said we shouldn't trade Volquez or Cueto in a possible deal?

Just talking out loud here as I would all but bet one of those two would be going to cash checks in Canadian money if RH was coming here.

Trade wouldn't make sense for Cincy then as a Cueto to Halladay upgrade isn't what they need. It's a Bailey to Halladay upgrade that catapults them to a different level of play.

Mario-Rijo
07-24-2009, 04:55 PM
I believe him. Walt has done it before.

But keep on hating, for whatever reason.

I don't believe him and frankly that and not so much the inactivity is what bugs me so. I believed what he said until he lied, and inferring you are going get what we need is IMO a lie when you don't follow thru. I am "hating" because they said they needed a particular piece to the puzzle to compete, they failed to get said piece now let's just stop right there. They knew they needed more offense in order to win (if they had any sense) and didn't get it, why is that at all acceptable? I don't go to games for bobbleheads, I want an organization who truly wants to win, knows how to and puts forth the effort. They are failing in one or more of these areas and that is what makes me hate on them. Well that and the fact they continue to just flat lie to us in the process. I am offended by it.

If they had come out and said you know we feel good about this young team going into the season and we feel it's wise to not go and spend any unneccessary dollars until we get a better handle on what we actually have on the field now. Really quite reasonable given the circumstances IMO. Then I might have been mad but I'd have gotten over it and still supported them. Maybe they wouldn't have sold quite as many tickets but I'm guessing it wouldn't have been far off of where they will end up anyway. Now I have to worry that we again may have a FO who has only their profits in mind.

Bob said he wants to win now (a long time ago mind you), Walt says we need a piece and he's out there looking for it (and has been for a well beyond reasonable timeframe), those are lies IMO and I don't like liars, I tend to hate on them.

REDREAD
07-24-2009, 04:55 PM
Wow...

It's funny. If we hear no reports of Walt getting involved, he is sitting on his hands doing nothing. If we hear that he is getting involved with one of the biggest names, it is a BS report.

This would be huge. Probably a longshot for the reasons mentioned above, but wow.


Yep. I am pretty sure Walt is investigating a deal. The first step is to agree on a package of players to make the trade. The second part would be to attempt a sales pitch to Halladay.
Not sure it's fair to automatically dismiss this report as BS, just so people here can keep saying Walt is doing nothing.

Benihana
07-24-2009, 04:58 PM
Yep. I am pretty sure Walt is investigating a deal. The first step is to agree on a package of players to make the trade. The second part would be to attempt a sales pitch to Halladay.
Not sure it's fair to automatically dismiss this report as BS, just so people here can keep saying Walt is doing nothing.

I have been critical of Walt's inactivity, but I agree with you that it's unfair to dismiss this report as BS. Not saying I think it will happen, but you can't dismiss a national media report out of hand.

REDREAD
07-24-2009, 05:14 PM
I have been critical of Walt's inactivity, but I agree with you that it's unfair to dismiss this report as BS. Not saying I think it will happen, but you can't dismiss a national media report out of hand.

Yep, I heard an interview with a GM once. He basically said that in modern times, every trade is such a huge longshot. It's so difficult to agree on players and get the finances worked out. I imagine it's even more difficult for someone like Halladay. The Jays are under a lot of pressure to get a lot value back. They are not forced to trade him at this point.

It's a lot different than trading for a guy that the trading team doesn't really want. Greg Vaughn wasn't really wanted by the Padres anymore when we picked him up, for instance. Obviously, Hernandez/Freel weren't wanted by their clubs either.

Raisor
07-24-2009, 05:14 PM
The expectations on this board tend to be out of whack.

The oly expectation I have is for the team to make the playoffs at least once every five years.

Right now, we're three playoff appearances behind.

wheels
07-24-2009, 05:47 PM
After ten years of losing, I don't know how anyone could be upset or offended if a portion of the fanbase becomes disenfranchised.

We've gone from Bowden, to O'brien, to Krivsky, and now to Jocketty, with a new owner thrown in for "good" measure.

What real changes have we seen in the process in regards to wins and losses?

The farm system is better than it was under Bowden. So what?

Until they can prove to me that it will translate to real Major League wins, consider me a cynic. Until they can prove to me that they've got the stones to move in one direction or another, consider me less than impressed.

If those expectations are "out of whack", color me guilty.

In the same vein, dare I say that I'm not so sure that a Halladay acquisition will be the magic pill.

Would his salary preclude them from adding the other peices needed to become a truly balanced ballclub (see Arroyo, Bronson or Jr., Ken Griffey)?

This organization makes me feel stupid.

Highlifeman21
07-24-2009, 05:50 PM
How many of these posts over the 6 pages have said we shouldn't trade Volquez or Cueto in a possible deal?

Just talking out loud here as I would all but bet one of those two would be going to cash checks in Canadian money if RH was coming here.

I'd trade them Volquez, but he's still on the shelf, so that won't work....

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 05:56 PM
After ten years of losing, I don't know how anyone could be upset or offended if a portion of the fanbase becomes disenfranchised.

We've gone from Bowden, to O'brien, to Krivsky, and now to Jocketty, with a new owner thrown in for "good" measure.

What real changes have we seen in the process in regards to wins and losses?

The farm system is better than it was under Bowden. So what?

Until they can prove to me that it will translate to real Major League wins, consider me a cynic. Until they can prove to me that they've got the stones to move in one direction or another, consider me less than impressed.

If those expectations are "out of whack", color me guilty.

In the same vein, dare I say that I'm not so sure that a Halladay acquisition will be the magic pill.

Would his salary preclude them from adding the other peices needed to become a truly balanced ballclub (see Arroyo, Bronson or Jr., Ken Griffey)?

This organization makes me feel stupid.


Halladay's not sufficient for a contender. That's true. But if the Reds want to be in any kind of contention discussion in the next several seasons, Roy Halladay is 100% necessary. This starting pitching is a hot mess--Arroyo's at the end of his career, Harang has seen his velocity vanish, Cueto's smallish, Volquez is hurt and currently residing in parts unknown with The Ultimate Warrior, Bailey is a punchline. Halladay takes the rotation from horrible to solidly respectable in one fell swoop.

Marc D
07-24-2009, 06:02 PM
Halladay's not sufficient for a contender. That's true. But if the Reds want to be in any kind of contention discussion in the next several seasons, Roy Halladay is 100% necessary. This starting pitching is a hot mess--Arroyo's at the end of his career, Harang has seen his velocity vanish, Cueto's smallish, Volquez is hurt and currently residing in parts unknown with The Ultimate Warrior, Bailey is a punchline. Halladay takes the rotation from horrible to solidly respectable in one fell swoop.

and if you empty the farm to get him we still can't hit.

TheNext44
07-24-2009, 06:09 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/roy-halladay-rumors-friday-2.html


Ed Price of AOL FanHouse hears that the Jays are considering trading Halladay to the Phillies for Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald and Lou Marson.

Would you offer Bailey, Alonso, Valaika and Mesoraco for Halliday, and would that be enough?

wheels
07-24-2009, 06:22 PM
Halladay's not sufficient for a contender. That's true. But if the Reds want to be in any kind of contention discussion in the next several seasons, Roy Halladay is 100% necessary. This starting pitching is a hot mess--Arroyo's at the end of his career, Harang has seen his velocity vanish, Cueto's smallish, Volquez is hurt and currently residing in parts unknown with The Ultimate Warrior, Bailey is a punchline. Halladay takes the rotation from horrible to solidly respectable in one fell swoop.


I agree with your premise, that's for sure.

I've just grown tired of the whole "We've acquired __, so now what? We're totally broke." bit.

I hope they do it if they feel they can afford him, absorb the talent hit on the farm, and make him part of a bigger roster plan.

Jeepers, he would look great at the top of that rotation, though.... Wow.

Brutus
07-24-2009, 06:29 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/roy-halladay-rumors-friday-2.html


Would you offer Bailey, Alonso, Valaika and Mesoraco for Halliday, and would that be enough?

I've heard the Phillies are apprehensive about trading Drabek. I can't fathom they would trade away four of their top five or six prospects in the organization in one deal. Man, I just don't see the Phillies doing that deal as being suggested.

To answer your question, Next, I would do that I think.

IslandRed
07-24-2009, 06:31 PM
I've heard the Phillies are apprehensive about trading Drabek. I can't fathom they would trade away four of their top five or six prospects in the organization in one deal. Man, I just don't see the Phillies doing that deal as being suggested.

To answer your question, Next, I would do that I think.

Same here. I'd hate to lose Alonso, but Halladay's worth it and I have my doubts about the other three kids. Still, that deal doesn't have as much prospect luster as the rumored Phillies offer. If they've really put both Drabek and Taylor on the table (which I kind of doubt), then it's game over if the Jays have any sense. They're not going to do better than that.

Brutus
07-24-2009, 06:34 PM
Same here. I'd hate to lose Alonso, but Halladay's worth it and I have my doubts about the other three kids. Still, that deal doesn't have as much prospect luster as the rumored Phillies offer. If they've really put both Drabek and Taylor on the table (which I kind of doubt), then it's game over if the Jays have any sense. They're not going to do better than that.

Agree totally. I can't imagine anyone besting that offer, if it's legit.

The Jays could acquire a future stud LF, a TOR starter and a catcher in one deal.

savafan
07-24-2009, 07:20 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/Daily_Halliday_u

Well, here it is, the Blue Jays asking price for Roy Halladay: Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi has spoken to the Phillies within the past 24 hours and negotiations are underway in earnest, baseball sources tell the Inquirer. They want Kyle Drabek, J.A. Happ and Dominic Brown.

That's what they've asked for. It remains to be seen how the Phils will respond to that.

When Charlie Manuel said yesterday “I prefer the horse,” the horse had a name: Halladay. As the Phillies and Blue Jays negotiate, figuring out who to include or not in a potential trade, there is a buzz around the clubhouse. Phillies players have pulled me aside, asking, “Hey, off the record, are we going to get Doc? What will we have to give up?
Manuel was asked today if he’d revised the thoughts he expressed about two weeks ago re: giving up Drabek. Here’s what he said a few hours ago: "I like Drabek and the basic reason I say that is, when I look at him, the style of pitcher that he is, I look at his upside. I look at his tools. I look at the kind of pitcher he is - I call him a drop and drive pitcher - and I think he's on the order of Nolan Ryan or Tom Seaver or Colon, guys like that with a real strong core, strong legs, get a big push off the rubber to produce power. It's a style that usually makes for a long career. That's what I see."

Two weeks ago, he said clearly: “For me, it would be tough to trade Drabek.” Today, compliments about the kid, no concrete plea to keep him around.

So which is it, Charlie--do you want the horse or the pony? You probably can’t have both. And if you can, you sure can’t have J.A. Happ anymore.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2009, 07:23 PM
It's a conundrum. The Phils don't need Halladay to win the East; they've got it pretty well wrapped up. But they will need him in the postseason.

I think the Phils will end up getting him though because this situation is going to boil down to money and the Phils can afford to extend him.

Will M
07-24-2009, 07:54 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/roy-halladay-rumors-friday-2.html


Would you offer Bailey, Alonso, Valaika and Mesoraco for Halliday, and would that be enough?

if i were the Reds i would do that type of deal quickly. i would however try to get Rolen (and his big salary the Jays would like to move) in the deal as well. this could be a move that would make the Reds offer more appealing than others.

this move would not really be for 2009. if we could pull off a Rockie type run ala 2007 (?) that would be great but the trade would be for 2010.

imagine:
TOR Halladay
TOR Cueto
TOR Volquez
MOR Harang
BOR Arroyo

Pen: Cordero, Rhodes, Masset, Herrera, Roenicke, Fisher, Burton.

Starting 8:
Hanigan, Votto, Phillips, ?, Rolen, Bruce, Dickerson/Heisey/Stubbs, Gomes/Dorn or LH free agent

Add a halfway decent SS to this & the 2010 team is clearly a playoff team.

corkedbat
07-24-2009, 08:19 PM
How many of these posts over the 6 pages have said we shouldn't trade Volquez or Cueto in a possible deal?

Just talking out loud here as I would all but bet one of those two would be going to cash checks in Canadian money if RH was coming here.

I wouldn't deal Cueto or Volquez in a deal for Hallady. The object is to fortify the rotation with them in it for the future. While I won't argue that Halladay in it, I think you'd the net gain with him would not be worht it -especially considering the afordable years you'd be giving up. While I do have concerns about EV's durability and control, he's still second in this organization as far as guys I'd be hesitant to move.

Votto would be awfully tough to give up also, but I'd still move him before I'd deal top affordable young pitching. Plus, I could find a journeyman 1B as a bridge to Alonso much easier than replacing an arm.

There are few deals I really want to move any of those thre in though and while I'd be omre agreeable to dealing Bruce, it would have to be a heck of a deal and another young OF would have to be heading our way from somewhere else.

Spitball
07-24-2009, 08:48 PM
The only time since 1990 the Reds have given us a reason to truly enjoy a season, Bowden took a chance and acquired Greg Vaughn and Denny Neagle. Outside of Krivsky's tenure, what have we seen? Not much. I'm tired of the failed formula that we have seen the Pirates and Royals follow.

Don't trade off Dunn and Griffey and parlay the savings into Willy Tavares. If trading off legitimate major leaguers in hopes of building for the future means selling us false hope and expecting us to accept mediocre product or less, change tha pattern now. Maybe Dunn and Griffey didn't fit into the future, but show us something...and not a Willy Taveras!

At least Krivsky took action. He may have made a few mistakes, but he was obviously thinking about being proactive about improving the team.

I'm not sure what Jocketty is waiting for, but I'm frustrated with waiting. He needs to shock the baseball world and put Cincinnati back on the baseball map map by acquiring someone like Halladay. Jocketty hovered at mediocrity in St.Louis until he showed some cajonies and traded for McGwire. That trade alone didn't turn the team around, but it showed Jocketty could think beyond the lateral processes that have marked his early years in St. Louis and his time in Cincinnati.

cincrazy
07-24-2009, 08:49 PM
Why in the world would we ever deal for Halladay? We don't have a snowball's chance in hell of signing him past next year, and realistically we're not going anywhere WITH him next year, either. So what's the point, other than giving up a boatload of young talent? There is no quick fix to this situation. This franchise sucks. It has sucked. And it probably will suck when my grandchildren are brought into this world.

Maybe I'm being a bit doom and gloomish. But I'm tired of losing, that's all. I just want a winner. I don't want to wait for a plan. I just want baseball to matter again in this city.

traderumor
07-24-2009, 08:56 PM
Why in the world would we ever deal for Halladay? We don't have a snowball's chance in hell of signing him past next year, and realistically we're not going anywhere WITH him next year, either. So what's the point, other than giving up a boatload of young talent? There is no quick fix to this situation. This franchise sucks. It has sucked. And it probably will suck when my grandchildren are brought into this world.

Maybe I'm being a bit doom and gloomish. But I'm tired of losing, that's all. I just want a winner. I don't want to wait for a plan. I just want baseball to matter again in this city.I could see it making sense if you were planning on making several moves before OD 2010 hits, but in isolation, it would not be a whole lot different than signing a big money closer and doing nothing else.

reds44
07-24-2009, 08:58 PM
If you got rid of Harang and Arroyo you could easily sign him past next year.

Would you rather have Harang and Arroyo or Halladay?

kaldaniels
07-25-2009, 12:06 AM
If you got rid of Harang and Arroyo you could easily sign him past next year.
Would you rather have Harang and Arroyo or Halladay?

Harang and Arroyo are off the books by 2010 or 2011 (I'm not sure). Halladay will probably sign thru 2016. I wouldn't quite say it will be easy to sign him just by ridding the Reds of Harang/Arroyo.

wheels
07-25-2009, 12:17 AM
The only time since 1990 the Reds have given us a reason to truly enjoy a season, Bowden took a chance and acquired Greg Vaughn and Denny Neagle. Outside of Krivsky's tenure, what have we seen? Not much. I'm tired of the failed formula that we have seen the Pirates and Royals follow.

Don't trade off Dunn and Griffey and parlay the savings into Willy Tavares. If trading off legitimate major leaguers in hopes of building for the future means selling us false hope and expecting us to accept mediocre product or less, change tha pattern now. Maybe Dunn and Griffey didn't fit into the future, but show us something...and not a Willy Taveras!

At least Krivsky took action. He may have made a few mistakes, but he was obviously thinking about being proactive about improving the team.

I'm not sure what Jocketty is waiting for, but I'm frustrated with waiting. He needs to shock the baseball world and put Cincinnati back on the baseball map map by acquiring someone like Halladay. Jocketty hovered at mediocrity in St.Louis until he showed some cajonies and traded for McGwire. That trade alone didn't turn the team around, but it showed Jocketty could think beyond the lateral processes that have marked his early years in St. Louis and his time in Cincinnati.

1994 and 1995 were two excellent years (strike notwithstanding), they acquired guys like Smiley and Gant and Mitchell....They kinda went for it those years.

Other than that, I agree with you.

It takes guts to build a winner. Over the last decade, we haven't had much of anything that could be considered gutsy..... Well, I guess the signing of Milton could be considered gutsy, but I call that just plain stupid.

Too much stupid, not enough gutsy of late. There's the problem right there.

Marc D
07-25-2009, 11:14 AM
Speaking of gutsy type moves, am I nuts for thinking we should be after Cliff Lee right now? (if we are going down the Big Mac type trade v2.0 scenario)

Everyones fixated on Halladay, the market hasn't been set yet, he a lefty TOR and young. I know he isn't Halladay but he's similar production for less money, its just a matter of getting a good deal for him and if you can sign him after '10.

I dunno but striking before they deal Hallady, and drive the price up on a guy like Lee, seems to me the type of bold move aimed at the heart of market inefficiency it would be nice to see them pull off.

cincrazy
07-25-2009, 01:05 PM
If you got rid of Harang and Arroyo you could easily sign him past next year.

Would you rather have Harang and Arroyo or Halladay?

I don't think it's that easy. If we get rid of Harang and Arroyo and sign Halladay, then one man is about 25% of our payroll, because you know the payroll isn't going above $80 million. That just isn't possible if you want to compete.

OldXOhio
07-25-2009, 01:10 PM
If you got rid of Harang and Arroyo you could easily sign him past next year.

Would you rather have Harang and Arroyo or Halladay?

Would you rather bid for him in the FA market against NYY or BOS?

corkedbat
07-25-2009, 01:12 PM
Harang and Arroyo are off the books by 2010 or 2011 (I'm not sure). Halladay will probably sign thru 2016. I wouldn't quite say it will be easy to sign him just by ridding the Reds of Harang/Arroyo.

I would love to have Halladya s a Red, but want know part of anyone signed through 2016. 2013, with an option in 2014 tops and I'd really rather it were a year less.

If this team has one piece of the puzzle left, then I'd be all for a one or two monster signings, but we aren't there yet.

kaldaniels
07-25-2009, 01:48 PM
I would love to have Halladya s a Red, but want know part of anyone signed through , with an option in 2014 tops and I'd really rather it were a year less.

If this team has one piece of the puzzle left, then I'd be all for a one or two monster signings, but we aren't there yet.

He will sign a megayear deal. I'm 99.9 % sure. 2014 as the final option year will not happen.

Falls City Beer
07-25-2009, 01:50 PM
He will sign a megayear deal. I'm 99.9 % sure. 2014 as the final option year will not happen.

I wouldn't be so sure. The owners seem to be working this "recession" angle with great airtight-ness.

Brutus
07-25-2009, 06:44 PM
FWIW, though I don't know if the Reds are still considered players in this, the Phillies have publicly balked at the Jays' demands and, as of now, say they will not be acquiring Halladay. This is clearly an attempt at leverage, but it will be interesting to see if someone takes advantage of the Phillies' stepping back.