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View Full Version : sunday injuries to Owings and Dickerson



klw
07-26-2009, 08:44 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a7447bcf3-51b0-4eba-889d-5797255f6b12&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com
Sounds like DL moves a coming



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290726116


"Man, Dickerson looks like he's hurt pretty good," said Reds manager Dusty Baker, who was obviously irritated. "Micah's shoulder is barking. Edwin was safe at the plate. Every day there's a call. Every day."

Dickerson said his injury reminded him of a torn rotator cuff he suffered in 2006. Owings said he didn't feel as bad as last year, when he missed most of the last two months with shoulder pain. Both players will be evaluated Monday in Cincinnati.

Owings (6-11) gave up two runs on three hits and four walks -- including one to Fukudome with the bases loaded -- in matching his shortest outing this season.

"As the game went on, it got stiffer and stiffer and tighter," he said. "I was missing some pitches by a foot and a half. It was the hardest thing I ever had to do, taking myself out of the game, but I wasn't going to help by staying in there."

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090726/SPT04/307260010/1071/Reds+add++injuries+to+insult

Owings missed the second half of last season with a shoulder problem. He said this feeling is different than what he was going through last year.
“This is more fatigue,” he said.
He didn’t mention any problem until after the third.
“He didn’t have much command,” Baker said. “But he didn’t say anything was wrong. He’s had those spells before. He said his shoulder got tighter and tighter.”

Will M
07-26-2009, 09:01 PM
This season is so over. The baseball Gods are just rubbing salt in the Reds' wounds now.

Things Reds fans can watch for in 2009:
1. who gets traded before September 1rst
2. the eventual debuts of a few guys in the minors (Stubbs, Heisey)
3. That is all.

oneupper
07-26-2009, 09:06 PM
Although we'd all love to see the Wood or Heisley or Stubbs or whatever else we have in the Minors...bring on the McDonalds, the Lehrs, the PettyJohns, etc...to finish off this season.

No need to rush anyone or start anyone's arb clock.

Always Red
07-26-2009, 09:11 PM
This season is so over. The baseball gods are just rubbing salt in the Reds' wounds now.



With 1/3 of the season left, plus the playoffs.

sigh.

VR
07-26-2009, 09:36 PM
Here's a thought Dusty. Run a team out there that isn't completely dependent on every call and break falling into place for them to have a chance to win.

kaldaniels
07-26-2009, 10:00 PM
Here's a thought Dusty. Run a team out there that isn't completely dependent on every call and break falling into place for them to have a chance to win.

Dusty doesn't help matters...but at this point there is nothing he can do that would really make a difference. Just calling it what it is.

Scrap Irony
07-26-2009, 10:15 PM
If Dickerson is indeed headed to the DL, I'd like to see Heisey get a shot, so as to prepare him for next season. I really think the kid could play CF well and OPS around 800. With Bruce an outstanding RFer and either a free agent or a platoon of solid defenders in LF, the D would be just as good and the offense would be much better.

This assumes Taveras is moved/DFAed/made fifth OFer.

If Taveras isn't dealt (and, sadly, he may not be), Heisey should still be the choice, so that he may play RF and LF now so that the Reds can make certain his bat is legit.

hebroncougar
07-26-2009, 10:41 PM
If Dickerson is indeed headed to the DL, I'd like to see Heisey get a shot, so as to prepare him for next season. I really think the kid could play CF well and OPS around 800. With Bruce an outstanding RFer and either a free agent or a platoon of solid defenders in LF, the D would be just as good and the offense would be much better.

This assumes Taveras is moved/DFAed/made fifth OFer.

If Taveras isn't dealt (and, sadly, he may not be), Heisey should still be the choice, so that he may play RF and LF now so that the Reds can make certain his bat is legit.

I'd love to see it too, but you and I both know Taveras will be manning CF next year.

redsfandan
07-26-2009, 10:41 PM
Although we'd all love to see the Wood or Heisley or Stubbs or whatever else we have in the Minors...bring on the McDonalds, the Lehrs, the PettyJohns, etc...to finish off this season.

No need to rush anyone or start anyone's arb clock.
That's a good point but at the rate things are going we may not have any choice soon but to bring up Heisey and/or Stubbs.

edit. btw, how bad did Dickersons injury look to you guys?

Reds4Life
07-26-2009, 10:52 PM
Dusty doesn't help matters...but at this point there is nothing he can do that would really make a difference. Just calling it what it is.

Yep. At this point, if anymore players go down, they should rename the eam the Cincinnati RiverBats, because that who's going to be playing all starting positions.

BCubb2003
07-26-2009, 11:04 PM
Yep. At this point, if anymore players go down, they should rename the eam the Cincinnati RiverBats, because that who's going to be playing all starting positions.

And that scrappy never-say-die bunch of misfits will go on an amazing run for the pennant in the feel-good movie of the year. Demetri Martin will play Joey Votto.

HeatherC1212
07-26-2009, 11:07 PM
This team is so cursed. I cannot believe how many guys have gone down with injuries of some sort this year. The media people talk about the Mets and all their injuries but we have to have passed their total by now. :(

Reds1
07-27-2009, 12:14 AM
Heisey has played just a short time in AAA. I guess I"m old school and don't like young call ups. Reds don't have a lot of options at this points so not sure what happens. I think this team is pressing so hard right now on top of the injuries and trade dead line. This is just like a young team. I'll be glad when the trade deadline passes and players can relax a bit.

Scrap Irony
07-27-2009, 12:19 AM
Heisey's 24, same as Stubbs. And, you're right in that he's only had a handful of at-bats in AAA. But he's the best choice Cincinnati has for the future.

And I disagree about the many options the Reds have.

membengal
07-27-2009, 12:19 AM
Heisey's 24. Not exactly a spring chicken.

ETA: What scrap said.

TheNext44
07-27-2009, 12:21 AM
I'm betting it's Darnell McDonald and Kip Wells called up. Or at least I hope so.

As of now, my only enjoyment involving the Reds is reading angry, angst ridden, hair pulling, head exploding, heated arguments on Redszone. :evil:

Reds1
07-27-2009, 12:22 AM
Heisey's 24, same as Stubbs. And, you're right in that he's only had a handful of at-bats in AAA. But he's the best choice Cincinnati has for the future.

And I disagree about the many options the Reds have.

I said they don't have many options right not. Not good ones!

LoganBuck
07-27-2009, 12:26 AM
Bring me Wladimir!!!!!!

corkedbat
07-27-2009, 01:02 AM
I'm betting it's Darnell McDonald and Kip Wells called up. Or at least I hope so.

As of now, my only enjoyment involving the Reds is reading angry, angst ridden, hair pulling, head exploding, heated arguments on Redszone. :evil:

No anger or angst from me. I'm just gonna sit back an enjoy our come-from-behind rush toward a title in the Strasburg sweepstakes. :evil:

Big Klu
07-27-2009, 02:04 AM
When looking at the Reds' 40-man roster, the Reds currently have six players on the 15-day DL:

Jared Burton
Mike Lincoln
Edinson Volquez
Ramon Hernandez
Danny Richar
Jay Bruce

A seventh player, Wilkin Castillo is on the 60-day DL and therefore does not count toward the 40-man roster.




Additionally, three players on the 40-man roster are currently on the minor-league DL:

Bill Bray
Daryl Thompson
Yonder Alonso




This means that there are only six active players in the minor leagues who are currently on the 40-man roster:

Sam LeCure (AAA)
Matt Maloney (AAA)
Robert Manuel (AAA)
Ramon Ramirez (AAA)
Drew Sutton (AAA)
Juan Francisco (AA)




If Dickerson and/or Owings have to go on the 15-day DL, then their replacements will either be from among those six players, or they will have to be added to the 40-man roster. Fortunately, the Reds have a little bit of wiggle room on the 40-man roster, as Lincoln and Richar could both be transferred to the 60-day DL, and thus be removed from the 40-man roster.

redsfandan
07-27-2009, 02:23 AM
Put Maloney/Ramirez on the 60 and pull up an OF and a pitcher?? The Reds have some tough decisions to make.

LoganBuck
07-27-2009, 08:22 AM
Put Maloney/Ramirez on the 60 and pull up an OF and a pitcher?? The Reds have some tough decisions to make.

????

cumberlandreds
07-27-2009, 09:01 AM
When looking at the Reds' 40-man roster, the Reds currently have six players on the 15-day DL:

Jared Burton
Mike Lincoln
Edinson Volquez
Ramon Hernandez
Danny Richar
Jay Bruce

A seventh player, Wilkin Castillo is on the 60-day DL and therefore does not count toward the 40-man roster.




Additionally, three players on the 40-man roster are currently on the minor-league DL:

Bill Bray
Daryl Thompson
Yonder Alonso




This means that there are only six active players in the minor leagues who are currently on the 40-man roster:

Sam LeCure (AAA)
Matt Maloney (AAA)
Robert Manuel (AAA)
Ramon Ramirez (AAA)
Drew Sutton (AAA)
Juan Francisco (AA)




If Dickerson and/or Owings have to go on the 15-day DL, then their replacements will either be from among those six players, or they will have to be added to the 40-man roster. Fortunately, the Reds have a little bit of wiggle room on the 40-man roster, as Lincoln and Richar could both be transferred to the 60-day DL, and thus be removed from the 40-man roster.

My guess is we will see Sutton if Dickerson is DL'd and Maloney if Owings is DL'd. It just looks like the Reds are bound and determined not to bring up Heisey or Stubbs until they are ready for Social Security.

Jpup
07-27-2009, 10:21 AM
My guess is we will see Sutton if Dickerson is DL'd and Maloney if Owings is DL'd. It just looks like the Reds are bound and determined not to bring up Heisey or Stubbs until they are ready for Social Security.

or ready for the big leagues.

klw
07-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Lincoln would be an easy move to the 60 day DL to open a spot on the 40 man roster.

chicoruiz
07-27-2009, 11:43 AM
Isn't Justin Lehr the guy who taught Homer the splitter? I say let's get him on the 40-man, get him up here, and see if he can give Homer a refresher course in between outings...

BuckeyeRedleg
07-27-2009, 11:46 AM
Lincoln would be an easy move to the 60 day DL to open a spot on the 40 man roster.

Exactly. Is there any reason that he's not already been transferred to the 60-day DL anyway?

Sea Ray
07-27-2009, 11:50 AM
The Reds are one of the few teams that do not bring guys up from AA. Who cares how many AAA ABs a guy gets? I am more concerned about rushing a pitcher than a position player. I think a pitcher getting racked for 10 runs in one and two thirds innings is more detrimental to a guy's confidence than a hitter going one for twelve.

I'm fine with bringing up 24 year old guys who are doing well at the AAA level.

Sea Ray
07-27-2009, 11:51 AM
Exactly. Is there any reason that he's not already been transfered to the 60-day DL anyway?

You don't do that until you have to. They don't want to put guys like Heisy and Stubbs on the 40 man unless they are going to be brought to Cincinnati. Otherwise you're needlessly burning an option.

cumberlandreds
07-27-2009, 11:54 AM
or ready for the big leagues.

If they aren't ready by the age of 24 then they probably never will be. Bring them up and let's see what they can do. The team can get no worse and I really don't think it will harm anyone's development. The only harm would be if they brought them up and did not play them. Then there's a good argument.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-27-2009, 11:56 AM
You don't do that until you have to. They don't want to put guys like Heisy and Stubbs on the 40 man unless they are going to be brought to Cincinnati. Otherwise you're needlessly burning an option.


I'm not saying they have to immediately put someone on the 40-man. I'm just wondering why Lincoln isn't on the 60 day DL. He's out for the season, right?

There's no benefit to keeping him on the 15. He's getting paid regardless.

Homer Bailey
07-27-2009, 12:05 PM
If they aren't ready by the age of 24 then they probably never will be. Bring them up and let's see what they can do. The team can get no worse and I really don't think it will harm anyone's development. The only harm would be if they brought them up and did not play them. Then there's a good argument.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Ryan Hanigan and Chris Dickerson say hello.

Jpup
07-27-2009, 12:05 PM
If they aren't ready by the age of 24 then they probably never will be. Bring them up and let's see what they can do. The team can get no worse and I really don't think it will harm anyone's development. The only harm would be if they brought them up and did not play them. Then there's a good argument.

I didn't say it would hurt them. I'm just not sure they can hit MLB pitching. I hope they can.

Danny Serafini
07-27-2009, 12:29 PM
You don't do that until you have to. They don't want to put guys like Heisy and Stubbs on the 40 man unless they are going to be brought to Cincinnati. Otherwise you're needlessly burning an option.

You're only burning an option if you send them back down. If Dickerson's injury is anything more than something very minor it would be easy to keep Stubbs or Heisey on the roster for a month, and then the roster will expand and there's no need to send them down.

Big Klu
07-27-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm not saying they have to immediately put someone on the 40-man. I'm just wondering why Lincoln isn't on the 60 day DL. He's out for the season, right?

There's no benefit to keeping him on the 15. He's getting paid regardless.

Why transfer somebody to the 60-day DL if you aren't going to immediately fill that spot on the 40-man roster with someone else? Needless paperwork.

BuckeyeRedleg
07-27-2009, 01:49 PM
Why transfer somebody to the 60-day DL if you aren't going to immediately fill that spot on the 40-man roster with someone else? Needless paperwork.

Gotcha.

Sea Ray
07-27-2009, 03:26 PM
You're only burning an option if you send them back down. If Dickerson's injury is anything more than something very minor it would be easy to keep Stubbs or Heisey on the roster for a month, and then the roster will expand and there's no need to send them down.

Are you sure about that? It's my impression that #1 pick Alfonso is burning up options as we speak. That's why it was significant that he signed a major league contract. The same thing happened to Wily Mo Pena. If options weren't burned by leaving him in the minors, then the Reds would have done exactly that.

JaxRed
07-27-2009, 03:30 PM
OK, Alfonso and Pena were on the 40 and are in the minors..... Option used.

You add Heisey to 40, bring him at same time and leave him up..... No option used.

IslandRed
07-27-2009, 03:36 PM
You're only burning an option if you send them back down. If Dickerson's injury is anything more than something very minor it would be easy to keep Stubbs or Heisey on the roster for a month, and then the roster will expand and there's no need to send them down.


Are you sure about that? It's my impression that #1 pick Alfonso is burning up options as we speak. That's why it was significant that he signed a major league contract. The same thing happened to Wily Mo Pena. If options weren't burned by leaving him in the minors, then the Reds would have done exactly that.

You're right, Alonso is burning an option this year. Danny's right, options are only used when a player on the 40 is sent to the minors. But "sent to the minors" doesn't just apply to in-season moves; when Alonso was sent to Sarasota to start the season, that counted.

Sea Ray
07-27-2009, 04:11 PM
OK, Alfonso and Pena were on the 40 and are in the minors..... Option used.

You add Heisey to 40, bring him at same time and leave him up..... No option used.

I agree with that. I covered that when I said the following:


You don't do that until you have to. They don't want to put guys like Heisy and Stubbs on the 40 man unless they are going to be brought to Cincinnati. Otherwise you're needlessly burning an option.