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Brutus
07-28-2009, 07:15 AM
With the asking prices of Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee so ridiculously outrageous to suit the Phillies' current desires, I'm going to get into the trade idea business.

ESPN Insider has a new story about a new Phillies' pitching target, which appears to be Lee, but I've read in several spots the last year or so they like Harang.

Sooo...

Why not Harang and Arthur Rhodes for J.A. Happ, Michael Taylor and a PTBNL (Jason Donald).

Seems pretty reasonable, I think. It's not asking for Dominic Brown or Kyle Drabek and I would imagine it's something the Reds would be satisfied with.

I may be way off base. Maybe the Phillies don't value Harang enough to pull the trigger on this kind of trade. But since Taylor is blocked for at least another year or two, it would seem he's the most expendable of their big prospects. And Happ is a sensible request for a TOR type starter.

Highlifeman21
07-28-2009, 07:53 AM
We won't get JA Happ or Michael Taylor from Philly for Harang.

The reason? He's not Halladay.

Wasn't Jason Donald the SS prospect they received from the Yankees when they gave Bobby Abreu to them for nothing?

Falls City Beer
07-28-2009, 08:38 AM
Happ's a better pitcher than Harang at their respective career junctures.

I could see a Harang for Taylor move, though.

Benihana
07-28-2009, 09:11 AM
Why not Harang and Arthur Rhodes for J.A. Happ, Michael Taylor and a PTBNL (Jason Donald).


I've been proposing Harang for Happ and Taylor for weeks now. If Toronto and Cleveland don't lower their demands, I could see it happening. If they want Rhodes are are willing to add Donald, so be it.

I do worry that Harang's value is falling fast with his last few outings though.

HokieRed
07-28-2009, 09:17 AM
I'd love to have Happ, but I don't see what that trade accomplishes for Philadephia. Happ is 7-1, 2.97, 100 innings /85 hits/33W's/71K's/1.18. IMHO, it's just self-defeating for them to trade Happ.

Benihana
07-28-2009, 09:22 AM
I'd love to have Happ, but I don't see what that trade accomplishes for Philadephia. Happ is 7-1, 2.97, 100 innings /85 hits/33W's/71K's/1.18. IMHO, it's just self-defeating for them to trade Happ.

This is the same team that traded Bobby Abreu just for fun. :p:

traderumor
07-28-2009, 10:05 AM
From the Phillies side, I sure cannot see why they would give up anything of value for Harang. I see him becoming a disaster in that bandbox.

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2009, 10:11 AM
I'd be more interested to see what the Rangers are willing to offer for Harang.

klw
07-28-2009, 11:15 AM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/happja01.shtml

Happ is clearly outperforming Harang this year. I don't see the Phillies making a move that arguably weakens their staff. I could see them wanting to add Harang/ Rhodes for Taylor + other minor leaguers. Another problem with such a move is that the Phillies have a full 40 man roster plus Brett Myers on the 60 day DL. They also have Pedro coming up soon from his "rehab" starts. So for Harang/ Rhodes to work the Phils would need to clear 2 spaces on their 40 man roster.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=phi

They do have 4 pitchers (all relievers) plus Pedro on the 15 day DL. I don't know the level of their injuries though I remember 2 of them just went down. (thus the attraction of Rhodes or Weathers). so instead of Happ a likelier target would have to be Carpenter or Carrasco. As Carrasco has been discussed in the Halladay deal I don't he would go for Harang.

blumj
07-28-2009, 11:32 AM
We won't get JA Happ or Michael Taylor from Philly for Harang.

The reason? He's not Halladay.

Wasn't Jason Donald the SS prospect they received from the Yankees when they gave Bobby Abreu to them for nothing?
No, that was CJ Henry, not sure what happened to him, he might be out of baseball already.

Brutus
07-28-2009, 11:46 AM
I agree Happ is outperforming Harang. From that standpoint, he's outperforming (statistically) most pitchers they could possibly trade for. The premise is whether or not they could trust him to continue this production the rest of the season, being so young.

Would I personally trade him to get Harang? Given Harang's declining value, I probably would not. But I could see rationale to do so for them if they did.

dougdirt
07-28-2009, 12:21 PM
No, that was CJ Henry, not sure what happened to him, he might be out of baseball already.

CJ Henry is following his brother around (Xavier Henry, the best soon to be college basketball player in the country) trying to play college basketball.

And can someone tell me why any team would want Jason Donald?

flyer85
07-28-2009, 12:29 PM
And can someone tell me why any team would want Jason Donald?same reason a team wanted Willy T?

Brutus
07-28-2009, 12:35 PM
same reason a team wanted Willy T?

No comparison. Donald is 24 years old and is still developing. Taveras had established himself in the Major Leagues.

For me, Donald is nothing more than a flier at a position the Reds are clearly lacking. He's been awful, to this point, but he's still believed to have some ability so if you can get him as a throw-in, why not? I personally am well aware of his atrocious numbers. But he's still not even 25 and last I checked, the Reds have one shortstop above low-A doing anything remotely exciting (Cozart).

Mario-Rijo
07-28-2009, 12:35 PM
same reason a team wanted Willy T?

'Cause they don't know any better? ;)

Not aimed at you Brutus or anyone in this thread BTW.

Benihana
07-28-2009, 12:43 PM
I agree Happ is outperforming Harang. From that standpoint, he's outperforming (statistically) most pitchers they could possibly trade for. The premise is whether or not they could trust him to continue this production the rest of the season, being so young.

Would I personally trade him to get Harang? Given Harang's declining value, I probably would not. But I could see rationale to do so for them if they did.

Exactly.

Many people (including people in Philly's front office) do not consider Happ to be anything more than a #4 guy. They think he is clearly pitching way over his head/talent level right now. Is Jonny Gomes better than Lance Berkman? He is younger and has better numbers this year.


Joel Sherman of the New York Post hears that the Blue Jays insist on receiving Drabek because they consider Happ a middle-to-back-of-the-rotation starter.

M2
07-28-2009, 01:02 PM
IMO, Toronto's been too focused on name prospects in its Halladay dealings and, if the Reds were to sweep in with a Harang deal, they need to pick one name prospect and then look for some steals.

For instance, Taylor might very well be the guy to get. Can you fill in with Antonio Bastardo (who could be a power lefty in the pen) and Travis D'Arnaud (a catcher in low A)? The goal should be to get the right player as that centerpiece and then pluck a hidden gem or two.

Benihana
07-28-2009, 02:33 PM
IMO, Toronto's been too focused on name prospects in its Halladay dealings and, if the Reds were to sweep in with a Harang deal, they need to pick one name prospect and then look for some steals.

For instance, Taylor might very well be the guy to get. Can you fill in with Antonio Bastardo (who could be a power lefty in the pen) and Travis D'Arnaud (a catcher in low A)? The goal should be to get the right player as that centerpiece and then pluck a hidden gem or two.

x 2.

Speaking of which, was the Indians return on Bartolo Colon one of the best trades of all time or what?

Brandon Phillips (centerpiece)
Grady Sizemore
Cliff Lee

:eek:

klw
07-28-2009, 02:39 PM
x 2.

Speaking of which, was the Indians return on Bartolo Colon one of the best trades of all time or what?

Brandon Phillips (centerpiece)
Grady Sizemore
Cliff Lee

:eek:

And Montreal can't be ripped for making the deal because at the time it was made there was so much contraction talk, it did not matter if these guys developed in a couple of years because the franchise did not look like it would exist when they blossomed.

M2
07-28-2009, 02:58 PM
xSpeaking of which, was the Indians return on Bartolo Colon one of the best trades of all time or what?

Brandon Phillips (centerpiece)
Grady Sizemore
Cliff Lee

:eek:

You get about one of those a decade. In the '90s it was Steve Finley, Pete Harnisch and Curt Schilling for Glenn Davis.