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View Full Version : There's no hurry on trading Arroyo



LouisvilleCARDS
07-28-2009, 08:28 PM
This trade deadline doesn't matter with regards to him, possibly Harang and even Cordero as well. No one in their right mind is going to be claiming big contracts off waivers. And if they do, I say HAVE AT EM.

vottofan4life
07-28-2009, 08:47 PM
Heard on WLW that Harang and 2 prospects could be sent over soon to Toronto for Scott Rolen

GIDP
07-28-2009, 08:52 PM
Heard on WLW that Harang and 2 prospects could be sent over soon to Toronto for Scott Rolen

Who said it.

Shawn_RedsFan
07-28-2009, 08:53 PM
Heard on WLW that Harang and 2 prospects could be sent over soon to Toronto for Scott Rolen

Not calling you a liar or anything BUT that is pretty hard to believe with all these random rumors flying around here lately AND in all of the Rolen talks I have heard they all say Edwin will be involved.

vottofan4life
07-28-2009, 08:58 PM
Yeah I didn't believe it much either when i heard it on the radio but i dont know who said it but you got to think edwin would be going back to Toronto instead of harang

LouisvilleCARDS
07-28-2009, 09:46 PM
Was it a host or a caller?

roby
07-28-2009, 11:40 PM
Was it a host or a caller?

It was Hal McCoy talking to Marty I believe. I heard it too/Can't believe it either.

GIDP
07-28-2009, 11:44 PM
It was Hal McCoy talking to Marty I believe. I heard it too/Can't believe it either.

Hal McCoy is a joke.

aubashbrother
07-28-2009, 11:56 PM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-reds/trade-rumors-swirling-around-harang-rolen-225938.html



CINCINNATI — As Friday's non-waivers trade deadline creeps closer, the rumors circulate. One involving the Cincinnati Reds acquiring third baseman Scott Rolen from Toronto remains alive and kicking.

Also there are rumors of the departure of pitcher Aaron Harang, maybe as part of the deal that would bring Rolen to Cincinnati.

"You hear 'em, but I don't pay attention to the rumors," said Harang. "You can't let it bother you or it will affect your play. As a veteran, your name is going to come up. You never really know until they come up to you and say, 'You'[ve been traded.' I don't waorry about it because it is out of my control."

Harang agrees that most trades are made without rumors and the rumored trades seldom get done.

"That's what happened when I was traded to the Reds," he said. "I had heard the Mets and the Marlins and some others, but not the Reds. At the last minute I heard, 'You're going to the Reds' and I said, 'Where did that come from?'"

Harang hopes the Reds don't rip up the roster because, "We're not out of it. We can make up two or three games in three days. We lost six in a row on the road and lost only two games. And we have enough games against teams in our division that we can shift things around in one weekend."

Of possible trades, manager Dusty Baker said, "We've been inquiring and search, but everybody wants our top, top guys. I'd hate to be in the AL East because both Boston and New York load up on you late."

Red in Atl
07-29-2009, 12:32 PM
Hal McCoy is a joke.

Hal McCoy is in the Hall of Fame, what have you done?

GIDP
07-29-2009, 12:51 PM
Hal McCoy is in the Hall of Fame, what have you done?

What does what I have done have to do with McCoy being a joke?

OesterPoster
07-29-2009, 01:38 PM
What does what I have done have to do with McCoy being a joke?

Other than the fact that you seem to rip on the guy at every opportunity, I guess nothing.

GIDP
07-29-2009, 01:48 PM
Other than the fact that you seem to rip on the guy at every opportunity, I guess nothing.

If he retired years ago he might not have the stigma of being someone who gets nothing but bad info or making stuff up regarding trades. Its safe to say if it comes from Hal McCoy the opposite is true.

Red in Atl
07-29-2009, 02:28 PM
If he retired years ago he might not have the stigma of being someone who gets nothing but bad info or making stuff up regarding trades. Its safe to say if it comes from Hal McCoy the opposite is true.

You aren't really old enough to understand this.

Hal McCoy learned the trade from Si Burick and Ritter Collett, both Hall of Famers. Dayton is the only non-MLB team city to have 2, let alone 3 Hall of Famers. In sportswriting world, you don't retire. See any cities sportspage for proof.

There used to be a day when younger people learned from and respected their elders. That's because they have a lifetime of experience over you/anyone younger.

Add to these facts that Hal has a disease that has rendered him legally blind, but it didn't stop him from continuing on with his profession. And I will put to you the opinion that Hal McCoy is quite a hero in his ownright.

So when I continue to see negative comments from someone who had to have their buts whiped by those elders, while Hal was busy on the Big Red Machine beat, I have to say again, what have you done in your life that makes your opinions so much better than his?

BluegrassRedleg
07-29-2009, 03:08 PM
This deal, as described above, makes no sense to either club involved. The only plus I can see on the Reds' side is to eliminate his salary, but you can do that by getting a couple of prospects from someone else. And why would Toronto want Harang, with the possible exception of quickly dealing him away (in the type of trade the Reds should have made to begin with)?

Red in Atl
07-29-2009, 03:12 PM
Hal made it pretty darn clear that he is speaking of all the "rumors" swirling and that "rumors" are the deals that don't happen. It's more of an excuse to write some stuff about Harang vs. Hal saying this is some done deal.

It's newspaper fluff that happens all the time. It's people here who read it, think its going to happen then turn around and rip Hal, because "he's always wrong".

It seems pretty clear to me, especially this season, that all these "insiders" and bloggers just need stuff to write about. They are filling space. It's mostly non-sense.

I think we are all just so hungry for Walt to imporve this team that we will latch onto any little nugget of information then blow it up to some huge truth. Then of course dissect it and then argue whether its a good idea or not.

Maybe we should just all go back to work and when they make a real trade, we can discuss it then.

big boy
07-29-2009, 04:14 PM
No, Really? Arroyo? (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/no-really-arroyo)

GIDP
07-29-2009, 05:24 PM
You aren't really old enough to understand this.

Hal McCoy learned the trade from Si Burick and Ritter Collett, both Hall of Famers. Dayton is the only non-MLB team city to have 2, let alone 3 Hall of Famers. In sportswriting world, you don't retire. See any cities sportspage for proof.

There used to be a day when younger people learned from and respected their elders. That's because they have a lifetime of experience over you/anyone younger.

Add to these facts that Hal has a disease that has rendered him legally blind, but it didn't stop him from continuing on with his profession. And I will put to you the opinion that Hal McCoy is quite a hero in his ownright.

So when I continue to see negative comments from someone who had to have their buts whiped by those elders, while Hal was busy on the Big Red Machine beat, I have to say again, what have you done in your life that makes your opinions so much better than his?

I dont respect him for a number of reasons. One is because he actually has said Homer Bailey wasnt on the major league roster because he was a bad person. If thats not a completely low blow I dont know what is. He has turned into a hack, and really doesnt bring anything to the table worth anything anymore.

Red in Atl
07-29-2009, 06:17 PM
I'd like to see that quote, and it's source. Because I guarantee you take it out of context or it doesn't really exist. I also know that he was admittedly hard on Bailey when he first came up, because Bailey was a young, cocky kid who thought he could throw his fastball to MLB players and be as dominant as he was in HS.

Hal's writing smacked Bailey the same way the Reds kept his but in AAA till he finally grew up and learned that it takes more than a 98 mph fastball to be successful in MLB. Further, Hal has been one of his biggest supporters this year, because Homer has matured, learned not to treat the media like trash, and he has worked hard to become a real pitcher.

Respect is earned. It is not a right. I get the feeling younger people (and hey I'm only 40) have this backward. You post all over this board on every topic. And that's fine. But you are so coarse in your opinions, and then you bash whoever doesn't agree as if they are some kind of moron. I just want you to keep in mind that an opinion is something we all have and none of them are neccessarily correct.

I've asked you twice now what is it in your background that makes your opinion better than a Hall of Fame writers opinion? You said above you have a number of reasons, but you only gave me one really lame one. Then you went back to bashing the guy more with your personal opinions.

I doubt I'm the only one on this board that finds your posts to be immature, petty and rather annoying. I grew up in Dayton at the height of the BRM and was personally on hand for game one of the 1990 WS. I come here for quality banter, to find out information I can't get since I don't live in the area anymore and really to just enjoy reading about my favorite sports franchise with other true fans.

For better or worse, I love the Reds and always will. And I respect most of those who have worked hard to make this franchise successful whether it's the front office, the players who have come and gone or the writers who keep us all informed. I respect them because they have shown through hard work and time that we have the same goal.

All I'm saying to you is posting 1400 times since March does not earned you the respect you seem to think you are owed. Maybe you should think about what you are writing before you hit "post quick reply", because there are lots of different kinds of people old and young reading it. Some of them just might think you are the hack.

lidspinner
07-29-2009, 06:21 PM
he really said that...I remember. he was talking about how Homer was spoiled adn would not listen to coach's and wanted to do things his way....and then went on to say that if Homer had a was a better man, then he would be pitching on the reds.....which I think was true. Homer thought his crap didnt stink and he had all he needed to make it......with that said, I love Hal.

GIDP
07-29-2009, 06:32 PM
http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2008/05/28/

Paul Janish, a great kid, is here. Jay Bruce, a great kid, is here. Homer Bailey is not here. And notice I didnít use the word great.

You wonder, just wonder, now that he has seen Janish and Bruce leave Louisville, along with Andy Phillips, can Bailey just adjust his attitude and work ethic, show some spunk instead of snarkiness and get himself up here.

It was no accident that Bruce got pie-faced and water soaked by his teammates after his debut and hardly any teammate paid attention when Bailey was here last year. Bruce is well-liked. Bailey is aloof. A loner. There is a reason for that.


Hal McCoy says that because Homer isnt a great kid he isnt in the majors. If only it was so easy that being a great kid means getting called up to the majors. Its Hal McCoy taking a complete cheep shot at a 22 year old, and trying to say hes a bad person. Janish at the time was in the majors because, Hairston, Keppinger, and Gonzalez were all on the DL I believe, and Bruce was called up because he was the Reds top prospect. He just needed to find a way to justify dropping some hate on Bailey and he failed miserably at it. McCoy should have just said "I'm going to attack a 22 year old personally because he didnt give my cry baby butt what I wanted in an interview once WHAAAAAHHH"

GIDP
07-29-2009, 06:36 PM
Not to mention Bailey did get pied already before. lol

GIDP
07-29-2009, 06:37 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08mKdEd0pq60o/340x.jpg

That photo was after his ML debut win against the indians.

Red in Atl
07-29-2009, 09:01 PM
Yes I've read that before, and I think I covered it already here:

I'd like to see that quote, and it's source. Because I guarantee you take it out of context or it doesn't really exist. I also know that he was admittedly hard on Bailey when he first came up, because Bailey was a young, cocky kid who thought he could throw his fastball to MLB players and be as dominant as he was in HS.

Hal's writing smacked Bailey the same way the Reds kept his but in AAA till he finally grew up and learned that it takes more than a 98 mph fastball to be successful in MLB. Further, Hal has been one of his biggest supporters this year, because Homer has matured, learned not to treat the media like trash, and he has worked hard to become a real pitcher.

Here is what Hal said/wrote and I copied and pasted it from your post:

Paul Janish, a great kid, is here. Jay Bruce, a great kid, is here. Homer Bailey is not here. And notice I didn’t use the word great.

And this is what you are claiming is your reason that you don't need to respect Hal:

One is because he actually has said Homer Bailey wasnt on the major league roster because he was a bad person.

Do you see where he called him a bad person anywhere? Because I don't. He just didn't say he was great!

So what you are saying is that you don't respect a Hall of Fame writer because he said Homer Bailey is a bad person. Right? Except Hal didn't say that did he? He just failed to say that Homer was great. And you know why? Because Homer wasn't, but he is on his way i agree.

Now lets see some of the accolades Hal has given Homer Bailey.

First one's from 2008:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2008/06/05/is_it_the_new_improved_homer.html

From March 6th, 2009:

HOMER BAILEY (5 to 1) - Bailey has made the most amazing one-year turnaround on the field and off the field - a complete 180 - of any player I’ve seen in 37 years. He has done extremely well in his two appearances, but some scouts are not convinced yet. “He still isn’t throwing a changeup much,” said one scout.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/03/06/hals_odds_on_who_is_no_5.html

From March 11th, 2009:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/03/11/for_those_who_wonder_why.html

From March 17th, 2009:

WHILE MOST of the Reds took a day off Monday (no game), Homer Bailey pitched five innings against a Reds minor-league team: five innings, three runs, four hits, one walk, six strikeouts, 73 pitches.

Those aren’t exactly glowing numbers, but every major-league pitcher who has pitched on the back fields in a minor-league game has told me that the adrenaline doesn’t flow and that it is tough to pitch in front of a few friends and relatives as opposed to pitching in a major-league exhibition game in front of a big crowd.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/03/17/

I could go on, but this is boring to do. The whole cutting and pasting thing. The reality is you just wasted three posts to prove nothing accept Hal forgot that Homer got pied in the face on his first win. Damn that Hal always making sh** up!

What you failed to prove is your reason. And basically you are bashing Hal because he didn't rub Homers whittle fanny and say good boy!

Baseball is a game played by men. So you have to be one to play. Doesn't matter how old you are. Just matters that you earn the respect of your peers.

It's that way in life too.

This entire exercise was just to point out that there is no need for you to bash Hal every chance you get, because we all know you don't like him.

GIDP
07-29-2009, 09:27 PM
Yea I mean he did have a point. Homer was a terrible person so he wasnt up with the team. My bad. Maybe instead of calling a 22 year old kid a bad person, and making it sound like hes so bad that the Reds hate him, and hate him so much they would rather have him in the minors, he can get back to making up tons of fake rumors.

Hes been especially bad for years. He is a joke, and every time he says or reports something hes consistently wrong. After all remember if you are a great kid you will be in the majors. I guess Stubbs, and Heisey are bad apples also.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-29-2009, 10:01 PM
Ugh, enough with the Hal McCoy argument. How about its les than two days from the trade deadline, and Harang did practically nothing to help our cause tonight making a deal.

At this point, I would make this deal:

Harang, Encarnacion, and a prospect for Scott Rolen.

It wouldn't necessarily clear salary, except a little, which is good. But even if Rolen drops off a good amount since he's in the twilight of his career, his numbers would still be better than anyone else on this team not named Joey Votto at the plate. And an upgrade defensively over Encarnacion. It's time to make a move.

GIDP
07-29-2009, 10:13 PM
Why not Bruce, Votto, Cueto, and anyone else for Randy Johnson.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-29-2009, 11:00 PM
Why not Bruce, Votto, Cueto, and anyone else for Randy Johnson.

Um, if thats a shot at what I said, its a pretty poor one. Listing basically the three players at core of our future for a blew average pitcher on the berge of retirement is no comparison whatsoever to what I said. But thanks for trying.

GIDP
07-29-2009, 11:01 PM
you want to really trade Edwin and Harang for Rolen? I just assumed you were kidding so I took my attempt at making a joke also.

LouisvilleCARDS
07-29-2009, 11:18 PM
you want to really trade Edwin and Harang for Rolen? I just assumed you were kidding so I took my attempt at making a joke also.

Harang: last 8 games, 32 ER's. He's falling apart, there's nothing left in the tank with him, and he's signed for another year. Do we really need to see him another year? Oh ,and he's making 14 mil per year next year

Encarnacion: one of the worse defenders at third in baseball, and batting a cool .206 this year

So yeah, I would make the trade for a 3B with a .320 average and a .370 OBP. Cut a few mil off the payroll, and get a guy who would likely be the best hitter on this team not named Joey Votto, I'll definitely take it.

GIDP
07-29-2009, 11:20 PM
Oh well I didnt know you were serious. My mistake.

Girevik
07-30-2009, 08:51 AM
This trade deadline doesn't matter with regards to him, possibly Harang and even Cordero as well. No one in their right mind is going to be claiming big contracts off waivers. And if they do, I say HAVE AT EM.

Back to the original point of the thread. I'm trying to remember exactly what the waiver rules regarding the trades are. I was thinking that if antoher team DOES claim him, you can either pull your guy back or work out trade with the claiming team. Are you assuming that if antoher team did claim him the Reds would let him go for anyhthing just to get rid of the contract?

bounty37h
07-30-2009, 09:14 AM
Um, if thats a shot at what I said, its a pretty poor one. Listing basically the three players at core of our future for a blew average pitcher on the berge of retirement is no comparison whatsoever to what I said. But thanks for trying.

I dont know Lville, they both sound like ridiculously bad trades.