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RedLegSuperStar
07-28-2009, 09:08 PM
MLBTradeRumors.com

Would Arroyo or Harang and Cash be enough for a SS and a C?

HokieRed
07-28-2009, 09:10 PM
Can we get Josh back?

CTA513
07-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Can we get Josh back?

This years Hamilton or last years Hamilton?
This years version is hitting .221

jojo
07-28-2009, 10:14 PM
Why do Arroyo and Harang keep getting treated as equals in trade rumblings?

Also, no-it would take alot to get a desireable catcher and shortstop in deals let alone a single deal.

Johnny Footstool
07-28-2009, 10:15 PM
I've been saying this for a couple of weeks: Harang for Elvis Andrus and one of the Rangers' young catchers.

Benihana
07-28-2009, 10:17 PM
I don't think they can take on payroll, they're currently getting loans from MLB

jojo
07-28-2009, 10:25 PM
Andrus isn't going to be traded.

backbencher
07-28-2009, 10:32 PM
I've been saying this for a couple of weeks: Harang for Elvis Andrus and one of the Rangers' young catchers.

And the Rangers fans are saying this: Michael Young for Johnny Cueto and one of the Reds AAA CFs.

KoryMac5
07-28-2009, 11:33 PM
Been rumors about the Rangers being in on Halladay for about a week or so. Problem is the Rangers don't think they can take on much salary and want Toronto to help out with Roy's contract. Can't see them going for Harang and or Arroyo unless the Reds pay a huge chunk of the cost.

TheNext44
07-28-2009, 11:41 PM
I really don't see why everyone is so excited about Andrus. I've only see him play a few games, but he really doesn't seem to be that much better than Janish. Unless people see him developing power, he really is very similar stat wise, both in the minors and briefly in the majors.

And are the catchers the Rangers have really that much better than Hanigan that they are worth giving up resources for?

Homer Bailey
07-29-2009, 12:27 AM
I really don't see why everyone is so excited about Andrus. I've only see him play a few games, but he really doesn't seem to be that much better than Janish. Unless people see him developing power, he really is very similar stat wise, both in the minors and briefly in the majors.

And are the catchers the Rangers have really that much better than Hanigan that they are worth giving up resources for?

Andrus is 20 and has a UZR/150 of 10.1. He's one of the best SS's in the league already. His bat is coming along slowly, but I'd absolutely snap at Harang for Andrus.

TheNext44
07-29-2009, 12:40 AM
Andrus is 20 and has a UZR/150 of 10.1. He's one of the best SS's in the league already. His bat is coming along slowly, but I'd absolutely snap at Harang for Andrus.

Janish has a UZR/150 of +21.5. I know it's a smaller sample and more volatile, but there is no way that Andrus' glove is worth the production from Harang more than Janish's glove.

Unless Andrus is projected to fill out and hit 15 HR's a year, I'd rather keep Janish and Harang, and even then, I'm not so sure.

Homer Bailey
07-29-2009, 12:57 AM
Janish has a UZR/150 of +21.5. I know it's a smaller sample and more volatile, but there is no way that Andrus' glove is worth the production from Harang more than Janish's glove.

Unless Andrus is projected to fill out and hit 15 HR's a year, I'd rather keep Janish and Harang, and even then, I'm not so sure.

Solve the Reds SS problem for the next 6 years? He's a game changer at short and he's only 20. I'm guessing he projects to be around a .750 OPS bat at short with plus plus fielding and plus plus speed. For an average starter who gets paid like an elite one? In a heartbeat.

TheNext44
07-29-2009, 01:20 AM
Solve the Reds SS problem for the next 6 years? He's a game changer at short and he's only 20. I'm guessing he projects to be around a .750 OPS bat at short with plus plus fielding and plus plus speed. For an average starter who gets paid like an elite one? In a heartbeat.

If all you are doing is guessing that he projects to be around a .750 OPS bat, then no way. I see nothing in his stats, nor in the few times I have seen him play that suggest that. I have read some scouts say that he will fill out and gain power, but I have read others that say he won't.

Look at past young, speedster infielders at the age of 20 who made it in the bigs. They were all showing more power at his age than he does now. Furcal, Soriano, JJ Hardy, Cano, Rollins, B. Phillips, H. Ramirez, F. Lopez....

Right now, his bat looks like Janish's bat. And Janish can easily provide above league average defense if he played every day. The only think that Andrus has that Janish doesn't is speed, but we have all seen how valuable that is if you don't have any power.

Maybe Andrus is better than Janish, but I just don't see how he is so much more better that he is worth losing Harang's production over it.

backbencher
07-29-2009, 02:09 AM
I really don't see why everyone is so excited about Andrus.

All Reds fans need to know is that the Rangers are really excited about Andrus. They promoted him to the bigs from AA. They moved a fan-favorite all-star player off of his position, against his will, to do so. They stood fast when the all-star protested in the press. They brought in a mentor (Vizquel) specifically for him. They protect him against tough pitchers. He fills a team need on its existing, big-league roster. He has exceeded the Rangers' expectations in every way. And he is cheap for years to come. What possible indication is there that the Rangers would trade him?

Falls City Beer
07-29-2009, 09:37 AM
I really don't see why everyone is so excited about Andrus. I've only see him play a few games, but he really doesn't seem to be that much better than Janish. Unless people see him developing power, he really is very similar stat wise, both in the minors and briefly in the majors.

And are the catchers the Rangers have really that much better than Hanigan that they are worth giving up resources for?

Andrus is an electric young player. In the limited number of AL games I've seen this year, he's the one player who really caught my eye. He's not going to be good, he's going to be exceptional.

TRF
07-29-2009, 09:46 AM
Andrus could be the next Furcal at SS. Or he could be Ray Olmedo too. The D is absolutely there, but the bat is suspect. Of course you can hide that bat in the AL.

The Reds can't have a bat like Andrus, and WT and a Pitcher in the lineup at the same time. I'm for getting a defender like Andrus, but not if it means the Reds tread water in CF.

This FO needs to address both, the mistake in CF and the mistake at SS.

Falls City Beer
07-29-2009, 09:49 AM
Andrus could be the next Furcal at SS. Or he could be Ray Olmedo too. The D is absolutely there, but the bat is suspect. Of course you can hide that bat in the AL.

The Reds can't have a bat like Andrus, and WT and a Pitcher in the lineup at the same time. I'm for getting a defender like Andrus, but not if it means the Reds tread water in CF.

This FO needs to address both, the mistake in CF and the mistake at SS.

Andrus handles the bat quite well. He'll be fine.

PuffyPig
07-29-2009, 09:51 AM
The Rangers have gone from one of the worst defensive efficient teams in 2008 to one of the best in 2009, with Andrus getting most of the credit.

Andrus is the exact type of SS we should be going after, though I doubt the Rangers have any intention of giving him up.

Benihana
07-29-2009, 09:53 AM
The Reds can't have a bat like Andrus, and WT and a Pitcher in the lineup at the same time. I'm for getting a defender like Andrus, but not if it means the Reds tread water in CF.

This FO needs to address both, the mistake in CF and the mistake at SS.

Yep

BRM
07-29-2009, 09:55 AM
This FO needs to address both, the mistake in CF and the mistake at SS.

What are the odds that either gets addressed during the season? I'd say slim to none.

Falls City Beer
07-29-2009, 09:57 AM
What are the odds that either gets addressed during the season? I'd say slim to none.

I thought the Reds had two aces for CF in their minors?

BRM
07-29-2009, 10:01 AM
I thought the Reds had two aces for CF in their minors?

They have two potential replacements in Louisville. I highly doubt either one gets significant time in CF this season.

Falls City Beer
07-29-2009, 10:02 AM
They have two potential replacements in Louisville. I highly doubt either one gets significant time in CF this season.

Yeah, I don't care about this season, ultimately. But I think they'll get September tryouts. One of them anyway.

BRM
07-29-2009, 10:03 AM
Yeah, I don't care about this season, ultimately. But I think they'll get September tryouts. One of them anyway.

I can see one of them playing some LF in September.

Homer Bailey
07-29-2009, 10:04 AM
I can see one of them playing some LF in September.

If Stubbs plays left so WT can play center, that may be it for me.

I can see Heisey playing it though.

BRM
07-29-2009, 10:06 AM
If Stubbs plays left so WT can play center, that may be it for me.

I can see Heisey playing it though.

Why not bring them both up in September? Let them play CF and LF like they are in Louisville. Of course, one of them may get dealt before then.

Homer Bailey
07-29-2009, 10:15 AM
Why not bring them both up in September? Let them play CF and LF like they are in Louisville. Of course, one of them may get dealt before then.

Hey man, that's what I would do. But you know as long as WT is on the roster he will be the starter with a big fat 8 next his name on the lineup card.

Jpup
07-29-2009, 10:41 AM
Why not bring them both up in September? Let them play CF and LF like they are in Louisville. Of course, one of them may get dealt before then.

You have to wake up Walt and get him off his Rolen crush first.

HokieRed
07-29-2009, 11:05 AM
Three things.
1. Rolen's well worth getting for the right price if you think there's any window to be competitive in 2010. I don't see how we can not be better with Rolen at 3b in 2010 than with any currently available alternative.
2. As much as I think our current CF is a disaster, I hope the org. will promote Stubbs and/or Heisey only according to a timetable set by their development.
3. In the meantime, I'd permanently bench WT and AG. Period. Maybe DFA them just to send a message that the climate is changing. Put Nix in CF, try the EE experiment in left immediately, with Gomes in right (I don't care how bad the defense is), put Sutton at third and Hairston, Rosales, or Janish at short. Proposed lineup
1. Hairston
2. Gomes
3. Votto
4. Phillips
5. EE or Nix (depending on handedness of the P) [or flip EE, but not Nix, and Gomes]
6. EE or Nix
7. Sutton
8. Hanigan or Tatum (depending on the injury situation)
This lineup would at least have some chance to score some runs.

TheNext44
07-29-2009, 06:26 PM
Andrus could be the next Furcal at SS. Or he could be Ray Olmedo too. The D is absolutely there, but the bat is suspect. Of course you can hide that bat in the AL.

The Reds can't have a bat like Andrus, and WT and a Pitcher in the lineup at the same time. I'm for getting a defender like Andrus, but not if it means the Reds tread water in CF.

This FO needs to address both, the mistake in CF and the mistake at SS.

That's why I would never trade Harang for him. If I thought that he had an excellent chance to be the next Furcal, then maybe. But I've read too many scouting reports that say he might not ever hit for enough power to keep his OBP up.
Now his defense may be great, and even if he doesn't hit, he could become the next Omar Vizquel, which is not a bad thing at all, and a reason why the Rangers are excited by him and want to keep him. But I wouldn't trade Harang for the next Omar Vizquel, when the Reds have Janish and Cozart already.